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World’s delayed reaction to Gaza war kicks in

A week of encouraging signs augurs revival of anti-occupation cause.

My view of the chances that the occupation will end someday fluctuates between pessimistic and despairing. Since the war in Gaza, I’ve felt the cause was effectively lost; I figured that if the monstrous devastation that Israel visited on the Strip and its people did not light a fire under the world’s ass, then the anti-occupation movement was on a slow boat to nowhere. But just in the last week there have been a number of delayed international reactions (and even one from Israel) to the Gaza war, and they add up to what I see as a critical mass of encouraging signs that is weighty enough, at least, to argue against despair.

The clearest one was the international donors’ pledge in Cairo of $5.4 billion for the reconstruction of Gaza. The Palestinian Authority had only asked for $4 billion; expectations had been for $1.5 billion. This is a serious investment by the world, and a strong demand for change.

It was backed up by UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon’s speech at the conference, in which he blamed the war on the occupation. “We must not lose sight of the root causes of the recent hostilities: a restrictive occupation that has lasted almost half a century, the continued denial of Palestinian rights and the lack of tangible progress in peace negotiations,” Ban said. He followed it up the next day in Jerusalem by slamming Netanyahu’s diplomatic stonewalling and settlement-building in a joint news conference with the prime minister, who was not amused.

UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon speaks to the press alongside Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Jerusalem, October 13, 2014. (UN Photo/Eskinder Debebe)

UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon speaks to the press alongside Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Jerusalem, October 13, 2014. (UN Photo/Eskinder Debebe)

There was also the speech at the donors’ conference by Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sissi calling on Israel to accept the Arab Peace Initiative. Sissi is a brutal autocrat, he doesn’t yearn for justice for anyone, but his speech was a sign that he is not in Israel’s pocket as Israelis like to think, and that he may be thinking that championing the Palestinian cause will enhance his prestige and power in the Arab world, which would not be good for the Netanyahu government.

Then there was the vote by the British parliament to recognize a Palestinian state immediately. Prime Minister David Cameron opposed the motion and said it would not change his government’s policy, but again, it sent a message and, coming a week after the new Swedish prime minister, Stefan Lofven, announced that Sweden would recognize Palestine as a state, it was part of what appears to be a gathering momentum.

There were some powerful statements in the British parliament debate. From Tuesday’s New York Times:

Richard Ottaway, a Conservative lawmaker and chairman of the House of Commons foreign affairs committee, said that he had “stood by Israel through thick and thin, through the good years and the bad,” but now realized “in truth, looking back over the past 20 years, that Israel has been slowly drifting away from world public opinion.”

“Under normal circumstances,” he said, “I would oppose the motion tonight; but such is my anger over Israel’s behavior in recent months that I will not oppose the motion. I have to say to the government of Israel that if they are losing people like me, they will be losing a lot of people.”

The Times story also noted the new international atmosphere in which the British vote was held, and had some interesting quotes to illustrate it:

Romain Nadal, the French Foreign Ministry spokesman, said Monday that France “will have to recognize Palestine,” but he did not specify when the official recognition would take place.

The last conflict in Gaza “has been a triggering factor,” Mr. Nadal said. “It made us realize that we had to change methods.”

The Times also quoted Avi Primor, a former Israeli ambassador to the European Union and now head of the Israeli Council on Foreign Relations, who had told the Times of Israel early in the Gaza war that he was “not particularly worried” about the world’s reaction to it. He explained to ToI in July that “nobody likes Hamas,” that everyone saw that Israel had shown restraint, and that European governments were put off by angry pro-Palestinian demonstrations. Yet here is the Times’ quote of Primor speaking after the vote in the British parliament:

“The problem is that we are drastically losing public opinion,” Avi Primor, the director of European studies at Tel Aviv University and a former Israeli ambassador to the European Union, told Israel Radio on Monday. “This has been going on for many years, and became particularly serious after the talks failed between us and the Palestinians after nine months of negotiations under Kerry, and even more so after Operation Protective Edge.”

And in Israel, a long list of prominent liberal Zionists urged the British parliament to pass the resolution to recognize Palestine, which meant these Israelis were siding with a foreign political entity against their country’s government, which is not the sort of thing Israeli liberals ordinarily do. To borrow from the French spokesman, the Gaza war had evidently been a “triggering factor” for these two-staters, making them “realize that [they] had to change methods.’”

So the shock of the Gaza war seems to be wearing off, and the anti-occupation movement may be escalating. There is reason again for guarded hope. But finally, it’s up to the Palestinians – and here, too, things seem to be moving. PA President Mahmoud Abbas has committed himself so deeply to pursuing statehood at the UN Security Council, and if that fails – which the U.S. will guarantee with a veto – to challenging the occupation at The Hague, that it seems impossible he will pull his punches again.

This is no time for optimism, God forbid. But it’s no time for despair, either.

Related:
Labour MPs: Vote yes on Palestinian statehood
Seven years later, Israel decides Gaza blockade is ineffective
A siege of inertia: Israel’s non-policy on Gaza

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    COMMENTS

    1. Why should God forbid optimism?

      The Jewish Prophets prophesied against Israel, to move them to change their attitudes and direction, and once they do, good things will happen to Israel and the world.

      Reply to Comment
    2. Noe

      It takes a certain amount of willful blindness to see any of these changes positively. At the end of the day, a weakened Israel is a recipe for more bloodshed, not less. There is no “justice” recipe that doesn’t involve one side hammering the other.

      The problem we all face, even the writers on 972, is that should Israel actually lose a significant battle or war, there will be significant loss of life and freedom. Look all around you at the Middle East and you’ll see what I mean.

      At the end of the day, it’s actually the right wing that has been right all along, and the left has proven to be delusional. I say this as a Labor supporter.

      Reply to Comment
      • Richard Lightbown

        “there will be significant loss of life and freedom”

        This is already happening in Israel in case you had not noticed and a lot of it can be traced back to the occupation. BTW Labor might be to the left of Genghis Khan and it might be well to the left in Israel but it would be way over to the right in most European parliaments. Yes I know, ‘fucking Europe’ again. Yet funnily enough it’s Europe that so many Israelis want to be a part of. And just at the moment you ain’t shaping up too well from our perspective.

        Reply to Comment
        • Noe

          There is no loss of freedom in Israel and if there is any in Gaza, it is Hamas’s doing and if there is in Judea and Samaria, it is mostly PA activity or Israeli security operations.

          As for Europe, this may sound strange to you, but in Europe Jews have seen their most difficult periods including a massive genocide. Israel was established as an antidote to Europe’s hatred. At the end of the day, Europe’s reversion to Jew-bashing, Jew-hating, Jew-libel, etc., signifies more about Europe than Israel.

          Reply to Comment
          • Richard Lightbown

            And a poll showing 30% of Jewish Israelis wish to leave the country signifies more about Israel than you would care to admit.

            Reply to Comment
          • Noe

            http://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-emigration-rates-at-all-time-low/

            But when the emigration figures are broken down, a different story emerges. Some 15,900 Israelis left Israel for over a year in 2012, but about 13,500 Israeli expats returned — for a net loss of 2,400 citizens, compared to an average of nearly 10,000 per year between 1986 and 2008. In fact, according to border control officials, approximately a quarter of those who emigrated in 2012 and remained abroad for over a year have since returned as well.

            This net loss of 2,400 Israeli citizens in 2012 does not include figures for aliya, or Jewish immigration and naturalization, which contributed another 18,000 new citizens in 2012. In other words, through migration alone, Israel gained over 15,000 citizen-residents that year.

            CBS officials noted that Israel’s emigration rates are low even when compared to other OECD member countries, according to The Marker, an Israeli business journal, with an average of less then one emigrant per 1,000 citizens.

            The figures also show that over 50% of Israelis who leave had immigrated to Israel, with many of those choosing to return to their country of origin.

            Reply to Comment
          • Richard Lightbown

            None of your stats contradict the poll in any way. You’re just obfuscating the point.

            Reply to Comment
          • Noe

            I provided you with an article, a link and real data.

            You provided a statement with zero evidence.

            And you’re claiming I’m obfuscating?

            Reply to Comment
          • Beverley Krell

            Unfortunately, you are not going to win this argument. They know everything, they’re right, we are wrong. 9,300 Israeli citizens have applied for visas to live in Berlin for economic reasons.

            Reply to Comment
      • Yeah, right

        Noe demonstrates quite convincingly the old adage that if the only thing you have is a hammer then every problem looks like a nail.

        Noe is completely and utterly incapable of seeing this conflict other than down the barrel of an American-supplied and IDF-aimed gun.

        His/her idea of “justice” is therefore to argue that it is merely a choice between the IDF wiping out the Palestinians, or the Palestinian Defence Force (which, of course, doesn’t actually exist) wiping out the Israelis.

        That post is a poster-child for all that is wrong with modern-day Zionism.

        Reply to Comment
    3. Danni

      Every action or inaction carries risks. When Begin signed a peace treaty with Egypt right wingers warned against a new holocaust.

      Reaching agreement to end the occupation involves far less risk than what Begin undertook. Our Palestinian neighbors are the most educated and democratically oriented neighbor Israel has. With a demilitarized Palestine where is the great threat?

      The answer of course is that the security issue is just a smokescreen for continued occupation and slow cleansing of the land from Palestinians.

      In 1967 Israel was the most popular “western outpost” whether deserved or not. Today Israel is a pariah, even among a large segment of American jews, precisely because it no longer shares those western values.

      The trajectory is clear and the proponents of the current policy are going to end up as did south africa.

      Reply to Comment
    4. Average American

      Noe, are you suggesting Israel is some kind of peace and freedom influence in the Middle East?? If Israel lost a major war there would be significant loss of life and freedom? Ha. I like Putin’s approach better, he’s actually scary, Israel is not. This is not about “Jew-bashing”, that is an old worn-out card to play. The main question is why does my country USA support Israel? It’s not because of the Bible, it’s not because of Democracy. Why then?

      Reply to Comment
      • Gustav

        You tell us. Why should we know the answer to that?

        But if you want my guess. It is because most Americans recognize the rightness of our cause and they relate to the problems which Arabs cause to both our countries.

        Most Americans don’t take kindly to the spectacle ofAmerican journalists and aid workers being beheaded live on television by Arab murderers for the glory of Allah and Araby. Go figure …

        Reply to Comment
        • Brian

          Nine out of ten polls show that with respect to the Netanyahu Brand KoolAid yer hawking, 50% of Americans aren’t paying attention, 49% wallow in ignorance and thus are susceptible hosts, and 1% belong to AIPAC and watch JStreet Challenge obsessively and await the sequel and product spinoffs. Contact your marketing director for details.

          Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “Nine out of ten polls show that with respect to the Netanyahu …”

            Brian espousing his usual nonsense.

            Abbas revealed himself for what he is when he refused Olmert’s more than reasonable pejace offer for 6 months till Olmert lost the elections. Then Abbas breathed a sigh of relief and made all the excuses in the world to stymie any progress.

            There has to be something stilted with the logic of people who insist that Palestine, the umpteenth Muslim state and the 23rd Arab state MUST be recognized. But in the same breath come up with all the excuses in the book why Abbas need not recognize Israel as the Jewish state. Even though it is the one and only one Jewish state in the world.

            It comes across as: Arabs/Muslims must be given EVERYTHING their heart desires. The Jews on the other hand deserve NOTHING!

            Reply to Comment
          • Brian

            1. Nonsense, Tzipi Livni told him to wait for a new government. He only did what any sensible leader would have done.

            2. Nonsense, Abu Mazen is perfectly wiling to recognize the state of Israel — already been done years ago. Netanyahu invented the “as a Jewish” state add on gimmick specifically to gum up the works yet again. And ya know it.

            Reply to Comment
          • Brian

            And how many times must we go over this?: 100 – 22 does NOT equal zero and 0 + 22 does NOT equal 100.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “1. Nonsense, Tzipi Livni told him to wait for a new government. He only did what any sensible leader would have done.”

            Yea. Soon you are going to pretend that Tzipi Livni is Abbas’s foreign minister and that he listens to everything she says.

            “2. Nonsense, Abu Mazen is perfectly wiling to recognize the state of Israel — already been done years ago. Netanyahu invented the “as a Jewish” state add
            on gimmick specifically to gum up the works yet again. And ya know it.”

            I tell ya what I know.

            The Arabs steadfastly rejected the idea of the Jewish state in the Middle East. And Abbas still rejects it. That tells the whole story.

            That is why there isn’t a peace deal. That is why the occupation continues. Which by the way suits Abbas to a tee. He is ensconsed as El Presidente for life. He is funded by America and Europe and all he has to do is to appear saintly while pointing the finger at Netanyahu. He has the deal of a life time. Why should he want change?

            Reply to Comment
          • Brian

            Thanks, this is very helpful for appreciating the hermetically sealed propaganda bubble inside of which a certain segment of the far right lives.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            You are too funny Brian.

            When you get cornered and run out of arguments you smugly turn around and claim that you are right and we right wingers are wrong. But you cannot point to a single argument of mine above and refute it with logical arguments.

            Have you read the story of the “all wise” emperor who had no clothes? You are naked, Brian.

            Reply to Comment
          • Brian

            Oh you know that’s not true, about me or about Abbas. Stop obfuscating. Abbas sensibly rejects not “Israel, homeland of the Jewish people and of its native Palestinian Arab citizens and state of all it’s citizens,” Abbas rejects “Israel, exclusive Nation State of the Jewish People and no other.” Netanyahu actually used those words: “and no other.” You’re just eliding, slipping and sliding past important issues, by employing a studied, calculated vagueness and feigned innocence.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “Abbas rejects “Israel, exclusive Nation State of the Jewish People and no other.”

            Abbas rejects the idea of a Jewish majority state with an Arab minority.

            He rejects a state with a Jewish culture which permits non Jews to live within it practicing their minority culture.

            Abbas wants an Israel which would end up with an Arab majority and which would replace the Jewish culture with an Arab Muslim culture then change the name of the state and would kick out the Jews.

            That was always the Arab dream and Abbas does not want to give up that dream by recognizing Israel as the nation state of the Jewish people.

            Ya know that is true Brian.

            Reply to Comment
          • Brian

            Unsubstantiated and unwarranted allegations that fly in the face of his public statements and actions in the past decade and amount to baseless slander. The worst thing he’s said is that he expects to visit his old hometown of Safed AS A TOURIST. Wow, what a bad guy. And if you dredge up his old PhD thesis from 50 years ago I’ll just laugh. Life is now. People change. Not because they’ve converted to Zionism but because they’re realists. And want a minimum halfway fair deal for their people in the present. “The sea is the same sea” ain’t cutting it anymore. Bibi’s incessant fear mongering ain’t cutting it anymore. Sorry.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Excuse me? What allegations?

            Are you saying that Abbas is NOT refusing to recognize Israel as the nation state of the Jewish people? He is on public record saying that he will never recognize Israel as the nation state of the Jewish people. Even you wouldn’t deny that, would ya?

            Now compare that to Arab rejection of the Jewish state in 1947 after the UN voted to partition Palestine into ONE JEWISH STATE (which would have had an Arab minority and yes they described the state as a JEWISH state) and one Arab state. The Arabs rejected the Jewish state and made war to eliminate the Jewish state.

            So if Abbas STILL rejects the JEWISH state, what exactly has changed, Brian?

            Reply to Comment
          • Brian

            That’s tired sophistry. Bibi, and you, simply want to tear down Abbas when boosting his legitimacy and the legitimacy of all those who have opted for non-violence and diplomacy is needed. The truth, the dirty secret, is that Bibi and his pals Yvette and Naftali fear and loathe Abbas way more than Hamas precisely because he has opted for non-violence and diplomacy.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            It isn’t about Bibi. This war between Arabs and Jews existed before Bibi was even born. And not because we wanted war but because the Arabs did not want a Jewish state. It is a matter of public record it is history. Very recent history. But you are pretending that it is all about Bibi Netanyahu and that Abbas and the Palestinians whom he leads are the harbingers of peace and only Bibi stands in their way.

            But the facts speak for themselves. Before Bibi we were at war with them. With Bibi we are still at war with them and after Bibi we will be at war with them because the Palestinian Arabs have not changed their mind. They still want to get rid of us Jews from Palestine. How do I know? Because they still refuse to recognize our existence as a Jewish state.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “Bibi and his pals Yvette and Naftali fear and loathe Abbas way more than Hamas precisely because he has opted for non-violence and diplomacy.”

            The difference between Abbas’s PLO and Hamas is this:

            Hamas: We will kill most of you, get rid of the rest then we will make all of Palestine Arab and Muslim.

            Abbas: We will get as much as possible out of you by deception. Then we will take as much of the rest by stealth, taking advantage of your gullibility and naïveté. The rest, we will take by force if necessary once we are in command.

            Well, Brian dear, people like you who live in America can afford to be stupid. You can afford to say, give them everything they ask without requiring them to renounce their 100 year old ideology of NO JEWS allowed …

            But we who are here, cannot afford to be stupid. We cannot afford to trust them we must insist that if we give up anything, they should at least renounce their old methods and recognize us as the Jewish state. They are the ones who will just have to trust us instead that we then won’t mistreat our Arab minorities who wish to remain Israeli citizens.

            Reply to Comment
          • Brian

            No. Bibi has created this fiction that it’s all about psychoanalyzing what Palestinian Arabs are really thinking deep in their hearts, and that deep in their hearts they have to become liberal Zionists and “accept” this and that thing about Jewishness. No. No. No. This is a crafty distraction. That is all it is. What they, Arabs and Jews have to accept is a realistic, enforceable, practical final agreement. It has nothing to do with what lies “in their hearts.” They don’t like you, you don’t like them. If either of you had your way the other would be transferred out, gotten rid of. Period. Enough. Who cares “what they really really want in their heart of hearts.” This is psychoanalytic bull**** concocted by Bibi to throw a monkey wrench into matters. No one asked Sadat what he really really wanted deep down inside. They made an agreement with him. A practical and enforceable and transparent one. All this crap about “what the Arabs really want” is a diversion, a subterfuge. Many a right wing Jew wants to push every Arab in the West Bank into Jordan or worse. Many a right wing Arab wants to push every Jew in the coastal plain into the sea or worse. It ain’t gonna happen. If the world were run according to what every idiot wants it would go off the rails in five minutes. It’s not about what you WANT or what you FEEL, it’s about what you DO. By practical arrangement.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            The only crap is the one that is coming out of you Brian. Essentially this is what it’s about:

            1. Either we take a risk by taking their promises at face value even though their body language suggests that they still do NOT accept a Jewish state at the Middle East.

            Or

            2. They take a risk and extend formal recognition of the Jewish state and they trust that we won’t consequently use that to abuse our Arab citizens (our minority population).

            You say we should trust them but they should not trust us? I say bullocks to you. Mind your own business and put your own neck on the chopping block, not ours.

            Reply to Comment
          • Brian

            You still don’t get it. No one should “trust” anyone (at first–what your children and grandchildren and great grandchildren do is something else, based on lived experience). And no one should take undue “risks.” Bankers don’t do that unless they’re stupid and neither do intelligent political leaders from separate countries and neither should the Israelis or Palestinians. And I’m sure they won’t. It’s only tale spinners such as yourself that spin tales about it depending on “trust” and “taking risks for peace.” Trust but verify at most. Doveryai no proveryai. You think Reagan “trusted” Gorbachev and vice versa? You think Nixon “trusted” Brezhnev? The only verified idiot who trusted was George W. Bush who “looked into Putin’s eyes” and said “there’s a man I can trust” or some such idiotic thing. It’s about agreements that make sense and balance interests and power. It’s about true Israeli interests and true Palestinian interests. The battle in your country is about what those interests truly are. I wouldn’t buy a used car from Netanyahu but you apparently joyfully want to buy a country from him. Good luck.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “It’s about agreements that make sense and balance interests and power. It’s about true Israeli interests and true Palestinian interests.”

            Agreements, balance and interests you say? I am all for that. As long as the Palestinians too agree to things and are willing to recognize not only their own interests. What have they got to lose by recognizing Israel as the nation state of the Jewish people? Will it kill them?

            Reply to Comment
          • MuslimJew

            “What have they got to lose by recognizing Israel as the nation state of the Jewish people? Will it kill them?”

            You’ve been slaughtering them for decades, hasbara-maggot. And you’ve never stopped slaughtering them, hasbara-scum.

            And thank you for finally admitting that there is no Israeli nationality, hasbara-clown, and that Israeli Arabs are third class citizens of your apartheid shithole.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Poopsie.

            You suffer from comprehension problems. And that is not the only thing you suffer from.

            I sympathize with you for being you.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “If the world were run according to what every idiot wants it would go off the rails in five minutes.”

            And indeed it does. Certainly in the Middle East it does. And if you are weak then you pay. Pay big time. With the lives of ypur loved ones and your own life.

            You don’t live in the Middle East Brian that is why you can afford to be so blaze about it. But we can’t and we won’t even if YOU don’t like us for it.

            Reply to Comment
          • Brian

            Yeah, the Palestinians are weak and they pay big time against rapacious settlers and a massively armed military that defends snot-nosed utterly obnoxious hilltop youth brats who would run screaming and crying if they did not have the IDF’s skirt to hide behind. The hypocrisy of you talking about who pays.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            yea, the saintPalestinians are just victims who have never put a foot wrong.

            Reply to Comment
          • MuslimJew

            “Many a right wing Jew wants to push every Arab in the West Bank into Jordan or worse.”

            Do many “right wing Jew[s]” also want to push every Arab-Jew into Jordan? Do many right wing Arab-Jews want to push themselves into Jordan too? Have they worked out a way to cut-off the “Arab” part so the “Jew” part can remain alive in Israel?

            “Many a right wing Arab wants to push every Jew in the coastal plain into the sea or worse.”

            Do many “right wing Arab[s]” also want to push every Arab-Jew into the sea? Do many right wing Arab-Jews want to push themselves into the sea too? Have they worked out a way to drown the “Jew” part without killing the “Arab” part?

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Brian

            I think this post of Pottie Mouth is directed at what you said.

            He seems to like you.

            Reply to Comment
          • MuslimJew

            “Brian

            I think this post of Pottie Mouth is directed at what you said.

            He seems to like you.”

            You’re too stupid to “think”, hasbara-monkey.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            And you are just too stupid period poopsie.

            And not very self aware either.

            Reply to Comment
          • MuslimJew

            “So if Abbas STILL rejects the JEWISH state, what exactly has changed, Brian?”

            The cancer metastasized, hasbara-dumbfuck.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            See Brian? See how your Muslim froend describes us? He describes the Jewish presence in what he calls Palestine as cancer.

            That is exactly how the Arabs described us for 100 years. We need to see that they have come to their senses. That is why we insist that they must recognize Israel as the nation state of the Jewish people before we give them ANYTHING. Without that recognition we will give them NOTHING! Nothing whatsoever.

            Reply to Comment
          • MuslimJew

            “You are too funny Brian.”

            You are too stupid, hasbaretard.

            “When you get cornered and run out of arguments you smugly turn around and claim that you are right and we right wingers are wrong.”

            When you feel cornered, hasbara-princess, you stomp your feet, you call people “Arab” and “Muslim”, you spam the comment sections of websites and you screech: “go fuck your mother!” at usernames you don’t like.

            “But you cannot point to a single argument of mine above and refute it with logical arguments.”

            You haven’t provided “a single argument”, hasbara-loon.

            Your hallucinations, aren’t logical arguments that can be refuted with logical arguments.

            “Have you read the story of the “all wise” emperor who had no clothes? You are naked, Brian.”

            Israel is the Emperor, Hasbara-moron.

            Have you read the story of the “very fucking stupid” dog who was greedy? You’re a stupid fucking dog, hasbara-halfwit, and you have no balls.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Oh goodie. Pottie mouth is back. Here eat this …

            Abbas revealed himself for what he is when he refused Olmert’s more than reasonable pejace offer for 6 months till Olmert lost the elections. Then Abbas breathed a sigh of relief and made all the excuses in the world to stymie any progress.

            There has to be something stilted with the logic of people who insist that Palestine, the umpteenth Muslim state and the 23rd Arab state MUST be recognized. But in the same breath come up with all the excuses in the book why Abbas need not recognize Israel as the Jewish state. Even though it is the one and only one Jewish state in the world.

            It comes across as: Arabs/Muslims must be given EVERYTHING their heart desires. The Jews on the other hand deserve NOTHING!

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            By the way, poopsie, yes, you, Pottie mouth, did I mention that it heartens me when you are so angry and enraged?

            Why? Because it causes you to look even dumber than the natural dumbness which you inherited from your fish mother.

            Now what was it again you told me to do to fish, poopsie?

            Reply to Comment
          • MuslimJew

            “By the way, poopsie, yes, you, Pottie mouth, did I mention that it heartens me when you are so angry and enraged?”

            It heartens me when cornered hasbara-morons project.

            Go feed your useless heart to a fish, hasbara-robot.

            “Why? Because it causes you to look even dumber than the natural dumbness which you inherited from your fish mother.”

            Then you must me my mother, hasbara-fishfucker.

            “Now what was it again you told me to do to fish, poopsie?”

            Memory problems, hasbaretard?

            I told you to go fuck a fish and move to Atlantis, because nobody wants a worthless waste of skin like you in Israel, hasbara-princess.

            Reply to Comment
          • Kiwi

            Hey idiot. Why don’t you do the world a favour and blow yourself up?

            Reply to Comment
          • JohnW

            Kiwi, Gustav

            Ignore this stupid little retard. Don’t lower yourselves to his level.

            Reply to Comment
          • MuslimJew

            “Hey idiot. Why don’t you do the world a favour and blow yourself up?”

            Hey hasbara-asshole, why don’t you do yourself a favor slit your wrists.

            Reply to Comment
          • Kiwi

            You are missing out ….. The virgins are waiting for you …

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            We will see John. But I can’t resist this one …

            MuslimJew (alias Pottie Mouth):
            “go fuck a fish and …”

            Are you sure you want me too? Didn’t we agree that your momma is a fish?

            Reply to Comment
          • MuslimJew

            “We will see John. But I can’t resist this one…”

            There are tablets for your OCD, but not for your psychopathy.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Don’t be like that poopsie. I like you when you are angry.

            Reply to Comment
          • MuslimJew

            “Here eat this … The Jews on the other hand deserve NOTHING!

            Eat shit, Hasbara-asshole:

            Asshole Jews who are compelled to behave like thugs, who lump all Jews together because it allows them to play the perpetual victim and to blame their victims, deserve a special room in hell.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “Asshole Jews who are compelled to behave like thugs, who lump all Jews together”

            Brian? Is that you? Didn’t you say something like that as Brian on another thread?

            Could it be that you spat your dummy here and you decided to vent your anger by assuming your other persona of Pottie Mouth to dumb down the conversation in order to disguise your ill conceived views which were thoroughly debunked?

            If that is so, I hope you realize how thoroughly stupid that makes you. Only you know whether what I say is right or wrong. I am not sure … but I must say … I would not be surprised …

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          • Arieh

            See what Israel is up against?

            Do you feel the hatred seething in this guy? He is not at all unusual in the Middle East. Stark raving lunatics roam the streets and like this chap, MuslimJew or whatnot, they froth at the mouth and spew venom. They know not what they do or say, poor chaps.

            This is the type of person who hacks off the heads of American, British and French aid workers or fly passenger planes into the twin towers and then blames everyone else for it.

            Welcome to the Middle East.

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        • It’s always dangerous to be provoked into a war, especially when your enemies want you to do exactly that. Also the videos that allegedly show westerners being beheaded by Jihad John are suspect. A number of informed sources suspect the scenes were staged, along with some digital manipulation.

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    5. Brian

      I want nothing to do with any of the low and lowering, irrational gutter language above. All of it a waste of time. However, Gustav, you might take a look at your own role in partially instigating it. You’re fond of slinging around “pottie mouth” as an accusation and yet you felt free to say this to me:
      “The only crap is the one that is coming out of you Brian. Essentially this is what it’s about….” Pottie mouth? Can’t get more crude and literal than that. You’re the first one out of the gate with scatological language here. I’ve found these exchanges instructive regarding how all sides think and behave in this conflict. That’s about it in terms of usefulness.

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    6. Gustav

      Come come, Brian. Why are you so modest?

      I only used the word “crap” in connection with you after you said this to me in the very post before I said it:

      “All this crap about “what the Arabs really want”

      Like I said to you before, criticism is ok as long as it is constructive. I should have also said: as long as it includes self criticism.

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      • Brian

        English is not your first language? “Crap” as I used it is NOT scatological. “Crap” tied to “the one coming out of you” IS scatological. This distinction is unambiguous and significant.

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        • Gustav

          Just give it a break Brian. What you said was clear and unambiguous. You clearly said that what I said was crap. I then said the same thing about what you said. End of story.

          As far as my English? You are right it isn’t my first language. You are right about that. So what?

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