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Why is Israel concocting ties between Hamas and ISIS?

By dreaming up an association between Hamas and Islamic State, Netanyahu hopes Israel will have it easy the next time it goes to war against Gaza.

The head of Israel’s military government in the territories, Maj.-Gen. Yoav “Polly” Mordechai, spearheaded the latest round of Israel’s fantastical, anti-intellectual conflation between Hamas and ISIS this past week. Taking advantage of the horrendous attacks by an ISIS affiliate in Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula, Mordechai told Al Jazeera Arabic that Hamas is aiding the world’s most terrifying terrorist organization—by bringing its wounded fighters into Gaza for medical treatment.

The attempt to make a connection between the two groups is nothing new. In fact, facts be damned, Israel—and the Netanyahu government in particular—has a rich history of conflating Hamas with whichever evildoers it deems most expedient at the time. Making the ISIS, connection, as Larry Derfner reported in great depth last year, has been Netanyahu’s primary strategy for de-legitimizing Hamas since last summer’s war in Gaza.

Maj.-Gen. Mordechai’s accusations are expedient for many reasons. Firstly, Hamas’s relationship with the Egyptian government has gone from bad to worse since the overthrow of former president Muhammad Morsi. In recent weeks, however, a détente of sorts has begun to take shape, most recently evidenced when Cairo reversed an earlier decision that had declared Hamas a terrorist organization. It is no secret that the current Israeli government believes it is in its interest to ensure that Egypt remains adversarial toward Hamas, and what better way to advance that goal than to tie the latter to ISIS.

Secondly, Netanyahu hopes that the more he can concoct an association between Hamas and ISIS, against which there is an international consensus that any force is justified, then Israel will have an easier time the next time it goes to war against Gaza. Never mind the absurdity of actually comparing the ideology, goals, tactics and identity of the two groups. The only thing more absurd would be to compare ISIS to Iran. In addition to the fact that ISIS is a fanatical Sunni group and the Iranian regime is Shia, Ishaan Tharoor wrote in The Washington Post earlier this year, “Iran’s theocratic rulers are hardly champions of religious pluralism and tolerance, but they are not crazed fundamentalist jihadists, bent on smashing idols and butchering religious minorities.”

ISIS conducting a mass execution in the ancient city of Palmyra, Syria.

ISIS conducting a mass execution in the ancient city of Palmyra, Syria.

But Mordechai’s “proof” that Hamas is supporting ISIS follows in a long line of hasty Israeli-constructed connections between terrorist groups in Sinai and Hamas and other groups in Gaza. In 2011, after a well-planned cross border attack from Sinai left eight Israelis dead, IDF Spokesperson Lt.-Col. Avital Liebowitz offered almost-comical evidence that the Sinai terrorists came from Gaza. Liebowitz’s claims rested primarily on the fact that the terrorists were found to be “using, for example, Kalashnikov bullets and Kalashnikov rifles, [which] are very common in Gaza.” The AK-47, of course, is the most popular assault rifle in the world. A year later we learned that there was never any real connection between those responsible for the attack and the Gaza-based Popular Resistance Committees, against which Israel launched an air campaign justified by false information. That mistake nearly led to a war.

There is an even more absurd element to the “evidence” Mordechai used to show a connection between Hamas and ISIS. If bringing wounded fighters into one’s territory for medical treatment constitutes a de facto alliance, then that might put Israel and the IDF into a corner it has a hard time explaining its way out of. Israel, you see, is doing the exact same thing with Jabhat al-Nusra, the Al-Qaeda-affiliated fighters along on the Syrian-controlled side of the Golan Heights. Morally outrageous and shortsighted might be accurate words for describing Israel’s decision to provide Syrian rebel fighters with medical treatment. But, based on that support, to suggest that the Israeli government and the Nusra Front are one and the same would be just as ridiculous as the concocted association between Hamas and ISIS.

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    COMMENTS

    1. Larry Byrd

      Yoav “Polly” Mordechai
      After NHL players, Israeli generals have the best nicknames.
      How about Rehavam “Ghandi” Ze’ev or Moshe “Boogie” Ya’alon?

      Reply to Comment
      • Pedro X

        Polly is a real cracker when it comes to intel.

        Shomli Eldar at al-monitor.com July 6, 2015 shows Omer-man is out to lunch, again.

        “In any case, the leaders of Hamas will find it hard to dispel all blame from themselves. In recent weeks, a number of people who were hurt in altercations with Egyptian security forces in Sinai have been brought to the al-Najjar hospital in Rafah in the Gaza Strip. The information about al-Qassam Brigades bringing these wounded persons to the hospital wasn’t kept secret. Residents of Rafah saw how wounded people were brought in Hamas “military” vehicles and treated by a select medical staff. One resident of Rafah I spoke with explained that the treatment of injured in Gaza does not testify to support for one side or another in the war in Sinai, but is done as a humanitarian act, comparing it to Israel treating Syrian wounded in the Golan Heights.

        A senior security figure in the Palestinian Authority, who is following events in Gaza, told Al-Monitor on condition of anonymity that the cooperation of members of al-Qassam Brigades with many armed groups in the Sinai Peninsula is well-known to the leadership of the Palestinian Authority, Israeli intelligence, as well as Egyptian intelligence. He says the information shared by everyone isn’t a working assumption, but well-founded and well-known, and that it includes the names of people active on both sides. The activity of Faraj, which Mordechai revealed on Al Jazeera, is known and has taken place for a long time, the Palestinian source told Al-Monitor. According to the source, for years the leaders of the military wing carried out extensive smuggling operations with anyone who could help Hamas in Sinai before Israel’s disengagement from Gaza (2005), but especially after the tightening of the siege on the Gaza Strip. The close relations reached a peak after the fall of the Muslim Brotherhood regime in Egypt in July 2013, with the ascension of Sisi, a general who then headed the Egyptian military. After the Egyptian military sealed the smuggling tunnels with Egypt in Rafah and created a buffer zone, a strategic change occurred in the way in which Hamas’ military wing perceived the Egyptian security forces. The Egyptian military is now perceived by the armed groups in Sinai and the Gaza Strip, including Hamas, as an enemy, and their goal has become to strike it and weaken its power in Sinai.

        For years, a complicated and mutually beneficial relationship was built between Hamas members and jihadi activists on the Sinai Peninsula. Al-Qassam Brigades received aid from IS affiliates such as Wilayat Sinai, Aknaf Bayt al-Maqdis battalion and other terror organizations in smuggling arms, ammunition and raw materials such as fuel and building materials into Gaza. In exchange, Hamas provided a significant percentage of the arms smuggled from Sudan and Libya. Thus a reciprocal relationship was created that no one among the political leadership of Hamas will be able to uproot.”

        http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/07/israel-gaza-hamas-is-sinai-smuggling-weapons-blockade-egypt.html

        Reply to Comment
    2. Tojo

      Now that’s the question we all should be asking! Hmm.

      Reply to Comment
    3. Ginger Eis

      Are Hamas and ISIS/ISIL Twin Brothers?

      Here are the indisputable FACTS:

      1. Hamas Aspires The Genocide Of Jews:

      “Hamas aspires to the realization of Allah’s promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: ‘The day of judgment will not come until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jews will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say ‘O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.”

      2. ISIS/ISIL is currently engaged in Genocide and Systematic Ethnic Cleansing Of The Yazidi People and Christians. According to President Obama (may his name be forgotten), “ISIS/ISIL has called for the systematic destruction of the entire Yazidi people, which would constitute genocide.”

      3. For Hamas the Sharia is the ONLY source of law. The same goes for ISIS/ISIL. The brutish, barbaric brutality of both are the same – the only difference being that Hamas faces the Might Of The Jewish State that has kept it tamed and in check – for now. Indeed, we have not forgotten how Hamas men were throwing Fatah men out of the windows of high rise buildings a short while ago – even BEFORE ISIS/ISIL was born!

      Defending Hamas is certainly a new low, Mr. Michael Omer-Man.

      Reply to Comment
      • Replying to you in the sandbox is a bit masochistic, but Michael Omer-Man is hardly supporting Hamas here; he is claiming that the IDF has a history of asserting false linkages with Gaza or Hamas, which really isn’t surprising in such a contested, destructive, secretive theater.

        However, his attempt to equate Israeli medical aid to an Al-Qaeda affiliate with reported Hamas aid to ISIL fighters in the Sinai(importing them into Gaza) fails. The Al-Qaeda faction is supported for its opposition to both Assad and ISIL (and perhaps their promise of safe haven for Druze). The ISIL Sinai fighters are opposed to Egypt, so equating the two situations means Hamas is opposed to Egypt in the same way. Some Hamas undoubtedly are. Others undoubtedly see such alliance against Egypt as self destructive. And one has as well the coming conference between Hezbollah, Hamas, and Iran reported by the Times of Israel, where Hezbollah and Iran are clearly against ISIL. Merging all these events, does this mean that Hamas, Hezbollah, and ISIL are aligned against Egypt while Hezbollah and ISIL kill one another in the area formally called Syria?

        Our labels fail reality. This is to some degree always true. But elsewhere there is a more solid policing of label, creating somewhat of a social reality. Label policing/creating can take many forms, from ISIL beheadings to independent courts under the rule of law. In the present case, however, labels are thrown around for immediate ends. Insurgencies allow their label to expand, at least temporarily; established powers tend to force others into common label to legitimize, target action against these. Reality is what is left standing after the death games are done.

        Reply to Comment
        • JohnW

          Mr pollock is concerned about libelling Hamas about helping ISIL.

          Now how about expressing a similar concern about smearing Israel with supporting ISIL, as this stupid magazine has done in an earlier op-ed?

          That does not seem to worry Mr Pollock?

          Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            JW: “That does not seem to worry Mr Pollock?”

            Maybe it’s those photos taken of IDF soldiers meeting with ISIS terrorists.

            Or perhaps it is those IDF ambulances and field hospitals that appear to be reserved for ISIS wounded.

            Or likely it is those UN Observer forces in the Golan who document their observation of the IDF handing over boxes full of…. I wonder what?…. to ISIS terrorists.

            Perhaps. Or maybe it is that unlikely coincidence that whenever Israel “returns fire” on Syrian Army position it seems to coincide with ISIS movements in the Golan Heights.

            You know… times when it would be very advantageous for ISIS footsoldiers to have a bit o’ artillery cover….

            But all Lies! Lies! All Lies!

            Except when they are true, which appears to be the case here.

            Reply to Comment
          • No, John, at present I think there is no uniform Hamas to libel. Jeff Goldberg has said the same of recent. I have no doubt some in Hamas are pro ISIL. Let me repeat my ending:

            “In the present case, labels are thrown around for immediate ends. Insurgencies allow their label to expand, at least temporarily; established powers tend to force others into common label to legitimize, target action against these. Reality is what is left standing after the death games are done.”

            You are one of the latter, John.

            As to “smearing Israel with supporting ISIL,” I have no idea what you are talking about. Neither the best example of baiting nor redirection I have seen.

            Reply to Comment
      • Yeah, Right

        Are Manchester United and Liverpool Twin Brothers?

        Here are the indisputable FACTS:
        1) Both are football teams.

        Honestly, I kid you not: Both ManUnited *and* Liverpool are football teams. Neither plays hockey. Liverpool does not play baseball. Manchester United has never competed in any professional rugby event.

        Spooky, is it not?

        2) Both compete in the Premier League.

        Think about it: in all the Gin Joints in all the towns of the world we find that Liverpool and Manchester United happen to compete in the same league.

        Don’t tell me that’s just happenstance…..

        3) Both will always field a team of ELEVEN players. Not 10. Not 12. Exactly ELEVEN.

        Coincidence? I. Think. Not.

        There, proof positive: Manchester United and Liverpool are Twin Brothers.

        Not just that: the above proves that it is the height of irresponsibility – a low of Omer-Man proportions – to declare that Manchester United is its own team, or to posit that you can hold an opinion of ManUnited that is completely independent of your attitude towards Liverpool.

        That – as I have very clearly demonstrated using Ginger-Logic(tm) – is a complete impossibility.

        Reply to Comment
    4. Ginger Eis

      Bad Article. Very bad!

      1. “The head of Israel’s military government in the territories, Maj.-Gen. Yoav “Polly” Mordechai, spearheaded the latest round of Israel’s fantastical, anti-intellectual conflation between Hamas and ISIS this past week”.

      a. The question that arises from there is this: ‘does Mr. Michael Omer-Man understands the meaning of “anti-intellectual conflation”? An anti-intellectual is ‘a person who is opposed to- or hostile towards intellectuals and the modern academic, artistic, social, religious, and other theories associated with them’. How does Yoav Mordechai’s claim that Israel has ““clear evidence” that Hamas is helping Wilayat Sinai, a group affiliated with ISIS, remotely fit into the definition of anti-intellectualism? Methinks Michael Omer-Man not only does not know what anti-intellectualism means, but is in fact the anti-intellectual here, no?

      2. Michael Omer-Man then further claims as follows: “Morally outrageous and shortsighted might be accurate words for describing Israel’s decision to provide Syrian rebel fighters with medical treatment”.

      a. That, folks, has got to be one of the most inept statements made by a +972mag columnists and yet another low for Mr. Omer-Man. Israel gave and continues to gives free medical treatment to the severely wounded, defenseless and dying persons from the brutal civil war raging in Syria. Without said medical treatment, said persons would definitely die painful and certain death. That is the textbook example of your proverbial “good Samaritan”. However, in the weird world of Mr. Michael Omer-man, such altruistic acts of kindness from a man to his fellow man who is also a stranger to him are “morally outrageous and shortsighted”! Healthy minds disagree with that – vehemently!

      b. And why exactly is giving medical treatment to a severely wounded, dying person “morally outrageous and shortsighted”? Mr. Michael Omer-Man does not tell us. Methinks even Mr. Omer-man does not even know “why”, no?

      c. The Syrian rebel forces treated by Israel have pledged not to harm the Druze population of Syria. That assures that Israel will not be drawn into the war to protect the Druze People from Genocide as we see re the Yazidis and others in Iraq; a war that will further destabilize the ME and lead to the deaths of IDF-soldiers and some of the very Druze People the IDF will be entering the war to protect. However, in the weird world of Mr. Michael Omer-man, all of that are “morally outrageous and shortsighted”! Oy veh!

      Reply to Comment
      • Yeah, Right

        Ginger: “Bad Article. Very bad!”

        It’s an article, luvvie, it’s not a dog.

        Ginger: “The question that arises from there is this: ‘does Mr. Michael Omer-Man understands the meaning of “anti-intellectual conflation”?”

        The phrase, remember, is “anti-intellectual conflation”.

        Ginger: “An anti-intellectual is” …. not the phrase that Omer-Man used.

        He used the phrase “anti-intellectual conflation”, which I take to mean that Mordechai is conflating two things that nobody with a functioning brain (sorry, Ginger) would conflate.

        Ginger: “How does Yoav Mordechai’s claim that Israel has ““clear evidence” that Hamas is helping Wilayat Sinai, a group affiliated with ISIS, remotely fit into the definition of anti-intellectualism?”

        I’m getting tired of pointing this out, but that line is a classic example of Ginger arguing to her straw man (“anti-intellectualism”) rather than arguing with the phrase that Omer-Man actually used (“anti-intellectual conflation”).

        Perhaps you should ask him to explain what he meant by that phrase, Ginger, since it very clearly does not mean what you insist that it means.

        Ginger: “Israel gave and continues to gives free medical treatment to the severely wounded, defenseless and dying persons from the brutal civil war raging in Syria.”

        And it does, of course, offer that same treatment to anyone dying or wounded, irrespective of whether (or not) they are fighting on the side of ISIS?

        Syrian civilians?
        Syrian Army soldiers?
        Hezbollah militiamen?

        Or is that “proverbial Israeli good Samaritanism” restricted to patching up wounded ISIS soldiers so they can be sent out again to attempt to topple Assad?

        Because – and here’s the funny thing! – whenever the Druze in the Golan Heights stop one of those Good Samaritan Ambulances they find it is occupied by ISIS soldiers being patched up ready to send back out to topple Assad.

        Odd, that.

        Ginger: “And why exactly is giving medical treatment to a severely wounded, dying person “morally outrageous and shortsighted”?”

        Well, gosh, patching them up and THEN sending them back out again into Syria to topple Assad’s government is, indeed, morally outrageous and shortsighted.

        After all, they are terrorists, are they not?

        So patch ’em up, and then… incarcerate them because, you know, they’re terrorists.

        Ginger: “The Syrian rebel forces treated by Israel have pledged not to harm the Druze population of Syria.”

        Oh Dear, oh Dear.

        Ginger has just admitted that Israel treated those wounded terrorists in order to release them back into the wild.

        You might want to look into that, Ginger, because your slip is showing….

        Reply to Comment
        • Ginger Eis

          I fail to understand why you are so upset and freaking out.

          Regardless:

          Documented facts contradict your claims – i.e. the ones that are comprehensible enough to merit the following response. Here are the facts:

          a). Israel treats all the wounded who either crosses the border into Israel or who she can extract from inside Syrian territory. They include little children, women and (old) men. Many Syrian women have crossed the border and given birth in Israeli hospitals. (if you need source, just say so).

          b). Israel treats Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other terrorists who are captured wounded in battles with IDF soldiers in the same Israeli hospitals where wounded Israeli soldiers are treated. Palestinian civilians wounded during conflicts between Israel and Palestinian terrorist groups are transported and treated in Israeli hospitals. Wounded persons requiring urgent medical treatment are to us just our fellow human beings – regardless of who they are, their race, ethnicity, nationality and gender, and regardless of whether or not they civilian, soldier, militant or terrorist! Those qualifications don’t matter to us. Everyone receives the same medical treatment!

          c). Palestinian suicide bombers and other terrorists who survived their suicide-attacks on Israeli civilians inside Israel or soldiers at the checkpoints are transported with the same Israeli ambulance that transports their civilian- or military victims to the same Israeli hospitals that treat their Israeli victims. Sometimes the wounded terrorists are lying in beds next to the beds of his Israeli victims. That is how big the Jewish State is. That is how “foolish” some think the Jewish State is. That is why The Jewish State is a Light Onto The Nations!

          “We treat patients regardless of religion, race, nationality and give the best care we can provide,”

          “Israeli doctors frequently treat people from groups with which Israel has tensions, or even is engaged in conflict. In November, CNN visited an Israeli hospital treating an Israeli child and a Palestinian child, both wounded in warfare between Israel and militants in Gaza”.

          “Ziv Medical Center treated soldiers and a Syrian pilot during the 1982 Israeli war with Lebanon”.

          http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/17/world/meast/israel-syria/

          End Of Story!

          Nota Bene:
          I do not appreciate expressions such as “luvvie”, “your slips are showing”, or other expressions to the same effect. I demand of you to cease and deist from using such expression in the future. They are not appreciated. They are un-welcomed. They are offensive and revolting. Thank you!

          Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            Ginger: “(if you need source, just say so).”

            Please do.

            Ginger: “Israel treats Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other terrorists who are captured wounded in battles”…

            …. and it then releases them back into the wild, correct?

            Because that is the point that I am making: the IDF takes wounded ISIS terrorists, patches them up and then….. releases them back into the wild.

            Or did you just conveniently forget that bit?

            Ginger: “Sometimes the wounded terrorists are lying in beds next to the beds of his Israeli victims.”

            *sigh*

            I’m getting tired of pointing this out, but the “morally outrageous and shortsighted” bit *isn’t* the part about patching up wounded ISIS terrorists, but about patching them up SO THEY CAN BE SENT OUT AGAIN.

            Or did you miss that bit?

            Reply to Comment
        • Ginger Eis

          “There aren’t any midwives in my village. The Israeli army that was in the area noticed that I am in pain and delivered me safely to the hospital,”

          http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/middle-east/131103-syrian-woman-gives-birth-in-israeli-hospital

          “The proud mother, who is a refugee of the ongoing civil war that rages in her country for the last three years, was rushed overnight to the Israeli city of Safed and gave birth in the early hours of the morning to a healthy baby weighing in at 3.2 kilos.”

          Am Yisrael Chai!

          Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Would one buy a used car from this man who calls himself by the dubious name of [Yeah Right]?

            …before one is tempted to say ‘yes’, looky here on the following thread. He outs himself as a man who doesn’t even own up to words which he himself uttered…

            http://972mag.com/occupation-is-the-problem-not-the-people-talking-about-it/107897/

            [Yeah Right]:”I will now point out to you that I have never once used the word “legit” in this oh-so-tedious thread.”

            Oh dear. Now he is in denial.

            So tell me, sunshine, who posted the following words earlier on this thread, in response to Pedro’s post?….

            [Yeah Right]:”Because – du’oh! – the acquisition of territory by war was perfectly legit Way Back Then…”

            Yep, it was little old you, you little rascal. Don’t be bashful… Own up for once in your miserable life!!!

            Reply to Comment
          • E823

            Gustav, you ready to own up to the fact that you used to post here as Tzutzik, despite hypocritically claiming you never post under alternative identities?

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            LOL.

            Ya got me all wrong E823/Brian/Benny/MuslimJew, I used to post here as Napoleon. I still do. LOL.

            Now back to this [Yeah Right] dude….
            ————–
            Would one buy a used car from this man who calls himself by the dubious name of [Yeah Right]?

            …before one is tempted to say ‘yes’, looky here on the following thread. He outs himself as a man who doesn’t even own up to words which he himself uttered…

            http://972mag.com/occupation-is-the-problem-not-the-people-talking-about-it/107897/

            [Yeah Right]:”I will now point out to you that I have never once used the word “legit” in this oh-so-tedious thread.”

            Oh dear. Now he is in denial.

            So tell me, sunshine, who posted the following words earlier on this thread, in response to Pedro’s post?….

            [Yeah Right]:”Because – du’oh! – the acquisition of territory by war was perfectly legit Way Back Then…”

            Yep, it was little old you, you little rascal. Don’t be bashful… Own up for once in your miserable life!!!

            Reply to Comment
          • Electric Avenue

            E823, Gustav and the Tzutkik, who last posted about a year ago, not only have very different writing styles, but wrote about different topics. I would be very surprised if they were the same people. Curious why you think so.
            You once hurled out this allegation before, but I thought it was so silly that I did not comment. Surprised it appeared again.
            It is the Ben character that plays with identities here and refuses to acknowledge that. In fact, he will have two of his constructs converse with one another in strange form of theater. I think you started the whole G&T story line to distract from individuals questioning Ben on his dishonesty and manipulation of trust. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, E823, but it’s odd that you would somehow try to run interference for Ben and in the process, create a rather bizarre accusation. Wouldn’t be better if Ben just came clean?

            Hope that helps!

            Reply to Comment
          • E823

            Electric Avenue,

            You are correct that Tzutzik has not posted since last July 10, when he made a dramatic exit from this thread. http://972mag.com/our-murderers-what-would-arendt-and-buber-say/93098/

            On July 20th, Gustav started posting here.

            You are incorrect that they have different writing styles and write about different topics. I challenge you to look at the five pairs of examples below and tell me reasonable people would not infer these are written by the same person.

            Tzutzik, 4/27/14: “And before that too, during our 2000 years of exile our life was not all that pleasant either in Europe or in Arab lands. Sooooooo my opinionated friend.We are not going back to that. Which bit of Never again don’t you want to understand? We either survive as a Jewish majority in our own state or there will be hell to pay for almost everyone. ”

            Gustav, 8/12/14: “And given our historical experience, not just in the Middle East but in Europe too, we are not going back to the past. We are going to keep our Jewish majority state.”

            Tzutzik, 3/3/14: “There was a defacto population exchange. Like there was between Pakistan and India and nobody over there has made a political mileage out of their refugees. Each side simply looked after its own refugees and today neither India nor Pakistan have a refugee issue with each other”

            Gustav 4/12/15: “So, there has been a defacto population exchange. Similar to the population exchange which took place in India and Pakistan when those countries were established. Both Pakistan and India took care of their own and neither side has a refugee problem today”

            Tzutzik, 1/12/14: “And if we are an apartheid state now, before having done this, then why would you object to freeing Arab citizens and letting them be part of a new shiny democratic Palestinian state where they would be free from our oppression?”

            Gustav, 10/30/14: “We must be doing many things right with them. Otherwise, they would be happy to give up their citizenship and be part of the “shiny New Democratic” Palestine which is constantly being talked about.”

            Tzutzik, 5/1/14: “So we re-established ourselves in ONE place on this earth as a Jewish majority state, in Israel, so that we can defend ourselves from haters like you”

            Gustav, 1/25/15: “It is because of Jew haters like you that we felt it necessary to return to our ancestral homeland and create our independent nation. So that we can defend ourselves from haters like you”

            Tzutzik, 5/26/14: “But you are acting like a petulant little boy, Johnboy.”

            Gustav, 11/10/14: “Happy now? Petulant little boy?”

            Reply to Comment
          • Marnie

            Awesome E823.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            You are a funny little man E823. But since you are such an expert on writing styles, maybe you could tell us whether the following two people are one and the same, or not….?

            I got the first one from your own link, here it is again…

            http://972mag.com/our-murderers-what-would-arendt-and-buber-say/93098/

            Johnboy:”Ahem. The former is, of course, a demand that everyone be treated equally before the law.”

            The second one from the following link…

            http://972mag.com/legal-experts-cannot-erase-israels-history-of-torture/97979/

            [Yeah Right]:”Ahem. The article makes clear that no CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION has ever been opened.

            I don’t know about you, E823, but to me, those “Ahem’s” are tell tale signs. Want more? I can dig up more similarities between Johnboy and [Yeah Right]. So what’s going on in here, E823? Are you worried about Johnboy and [Yeah Right] too? Or are you only worried about Tzutzik and me? If so why?

            Also, why are you so desperate to distract people’s attention from my earlier post about [Yeah Right] and his shiftiness? Are you related to him by any chance?

            Anyway, here is my post again, just to make sure that we don’t lose sight of what he is like…

            ————
            Would one buy a used car from this man who calls himself by the dubious name of [Yeah Right]?

            …before one is tempted to say ‘yes’, looky here on the following thread. He outs himself as a man who doesn’t even own up to words which he himself uttered…

            http://972mag.com/occupation-is-the-problem-not-the-people-talking-about-it/107897/

            [Yeah Right]:”I will now point out to you that I have never once used the word “legit” in this oh-so-tedious thread.”

            Oh dear. Now he is in denial.

            So tell me, sunshine, who posted the following words earlier on this thread, in response to Pedro’s post?….

            [Yeah Right]:”Because – du’oh! – the acquisition of territory by war was perfectly legit Way Back Then…”

            Yep, it was little old you, you little rascal. Don’t be bashful… Own up for once in your miserable life!!!

            ————

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Want duplicate personalities here in +972 land, E823? Here, looky here…

            http://972mag.com/a-particularly-ugly-ethnic-slur-pallywood/98824/

            BRIAN:”Marnie: Shhh. Be vewy vewy quiet, Gustav is hunting wabbits.

            http://972mag.com/idf-displaces-palestinian-families-to-conduct-military-drills/107683/

            BEN:”Now stop chasing me around. Wabbit hunting season is over.

            http://972mag.com/libermans-de-patriation-plan-of-illusions/99372/

            BRIAN:”translation: Be vewy vewy quiet! I am hunting wabbits!
            Huh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh!

            http://972mag.com/idf-displaces-palestinian-families-to-conduct-military-drills/107683/

            BEN:”Lookie here at what I demonstrated you wascally wabbit!

            LOL, wabbits all over the place…

            …and Brian and Benny invoking them, LOL. Could they be one and the same person? Nah, not according to E823.

            Ok then, who cares? Except when Brian/Ben transforms himself into the creature called MuslimJew who utters profanities and racist comments like there is no tomorrow. Then that creature with the multiple aliases who does not hesitate to use more than one alias simultaneously to bolster his own sagging ego, ceases to be funny…

            Reply to Comment
          • E823

            Gustav,

            You present compelling evidence regarding Brian and Ben being the same person. On the other hand, your case regarding Johnboy and Yeah Right is not strong. “Ahem” is not a smoking gun.

            I will stipulate that reasonable people can infer that Brian and Ben are the same person, but you need to demonstrate your good faith and admit that you used to post as Tzutzik. To make that easier for you to do, I will stipulate that there is absolutely nothing wrong with having done that. You didn’t break the law, or as far as I know the rules of the forum. But, you have been very dishonest about this because it undermines your online persona whereby you don’t use the “cowardly tactic of adopting multiple aliases.” Unfortunately, anonymity and lack of accountability give us all the opportunity to do it, and I don’t doubt people on My Side (the left side) take advantage of that, too, for whatever reasons.

            But as far as I know, and correct me if I am wrong, this is only the first time you’ve ever attempted to substantiate any of your claims about left wing aliases. You are very fast and loose when you accuse Ben of also being, say, MuslimJew. You have never presented any proof of that except, in your head, it is “convenient” that MuslimJew always shows up to “rescue Ben.” [Those are not direct quotes, but I do believe you have described your reasoning in similar terms]. You can provide no textual analysis which would lead reasonable people to infer that MuslimJew, who is a repellent presence here, is the same person as Ben, especially when you can otherwise show that there IS someone who DOES sound similar to Ben. And yet, without any proof, you allow all offensive comments by MuslimJew to attach to Ben and anyone else who you claim is Ben.

            Frankly, you raise a good point when you say that despite my persistence and desire to discredit you, the best I can do is say you used to post under a different name. If you had integrity then when I asked you if you were Tzutzik, you would have said, “Yes, and there is nothing wrong with that. I didn’t use it to mislead, I just wanted a new name, and if you think that is a problem then you are silly.” That would have put me in my place. Instead, you “LOL”d, and when I actually backed up my claims with some evidence,you won’t quite admit it (but you aren’t really denying it either). For whatever reason, you must feel that there was something sneaky about your name change, or you could have addressed it more directly (even “None of your business!” would have been a better approach).

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            So you want more definitive proof that [Yeah Right] used to post here as Johnboy? Ok, E823, I will indulge you…

            4/72014
            Johnboy:”*chortle*
            The chances of either of those two accusations sticking to Abbas is… zero.”

            12/11/2014

            [Yeah Right]:”*chortle*

            For those who don’t know, the above is simply Step Three of the four-step Hasbarah Handbook.”

            4/7/2014

            Johnboy:”Man you have been bust: so many straw men in one post.”

            5/30/2015

            [Yeah Right]:”No, sorry, that’s according to YOUR straw man, not according to me.

            3/26/2014

            Johnboy:”*sigh*

            What was in it for Israel is obvious:

            6/20/2015

            [Yeah Right]:”*Sigh*

            There is nothing illegal about belligerent occupation Gustav”

            And so it goes, the mannerisms… the Ahems, the *chortles*, the references to “straw man”, the *sighs* endlessly, it is blatantly obvious that Johnboy and [Yeah Right] are one and the same.

            As for this MuslimJew bod? I have no definitive proof about him but I have very strong circumstantial evidence that he is one and the same as Brian/Ben. He always showed up after Brian/Ben painted himself into a corner to make sure that there would be lotsa posts following the embarrassing bits for Brian/Ben.

            Now lets talk about YOU, E823. What would motivate a person to show up out of the blue with a name like yours, go to all this trouble, and have only ONE topic, namely Tzutzik and Gustav? Either I made a very strong impression on you, if so why? Or you have your own vested interest to distract the discussion from the antics of [Yeah Right] and BEN which I raised. Now, why would someone like you want to do that? Are you related to them? Are you an alias of one of them? And why wouldn’t you rather try and respond to the quoted posts in which I made detailed accusations against them (Ben’s refusal to respond with his idea of a peace deal and [Yeah Right] denying his own spoken words)?

            Why did you rather introduce this petty distraction about my name? You have got me intrigued now even though my initial impulse was to just laugh you off.

            Reply to Comment
          • E823

            Gustav,

            First of all, I accept your evidence regarding Johnboy and Yeah, Right. I stipulate that reasonable people could infer that one became the other, similar to what you did. In their case, can you show me any evidence of them interacting with each other on the same thread?

            I will take the time to answer your questions. Please show your good faith and answer mine.

            “What would motivate a person to show up out of the blue with a name like yours, go to all this trouble, and have only ONE topic, namely Tzutzik and Gustav?” I am a longtime reader of 972mag. I didn’t go to a whole lot of trouble to figure out that Tzutzik became Gustav, it kind of dawned on me early on. I sat on this very trivial fact and it never came up, and I never felt a need to do anything about it because, let’s face it, who cares? But your speech last week about how you, unlike Ben, will “never resort to the cowardly tactic of adopting multiple personas” struck me as so hypocritical that I figured I would call you out. Did I overreact? Perhaps, but since there is so much garbage slinging under the cover of anonymity, and so little accountability, since there are so many people who express things and act in ways they would never dare to act in real life, I thought, yeah, I should take this opportunity to send a little reality check that, no, we can’t just get away with whatever we want just because it is the Internet. At that point, yes, I did put in some extra research for some choice quotes, and I did attempt to get you deny it so I could say GOTCHA! Was it dumb, even petty, of me to take up Internet space on this at all? Yeah, and I apologize to Michael for taking up space on your channel, but I am not sorry, Gustav, if you feel persecuted when you are called to account for something you assumed you would get away with easily. Be a bit more humble, or else have a thicker skin.

            “Or you have your own vested interest to distract the discussion from the antics of [Yeah Right] and BEN which I raised. Now, why would someone like you want to do that? Are you related to them?” Considering that I have no idea who either of these individuals are in real life, I have no idea if I am related to them. I have no idea if I am related to you since I have no idea who you really are. But I have no reason to think that any of my relatives are right wing or left wing commenters on 972mag, and certainly me being related to them is not my reason for wanting to share with the Internet what I already knew about you.

            “Are you an alias of one of them?” No. Consider this my very clear, unequivocal denial that I am an alias of anyone else. I am not Ben, nor Yeah, Right, nor anyone else. I am E823, and I have never posted on 972mag prior to June 18. And you will never be able to produce any evidence that I am anyone else because I am not them and they are not me.

            “And why wouldn’t you rather try and respond to the quoted posts in which I made detailed accusations against them (Ben’s refusal to respond with his idea of a peace deal and [Yeah Right] denying his own spoken words)?” In real life, I’m a listener, not a big talker. On the Internet, I am a reader, not a big talker. I don’t comment here or elsewhere because I learn more from reading what others have to say, including and especially those who I disagree with or even whose views I abhor, than from adding more gratuitous words of my own to this planet. But the arrogance of your speech compelled me to call you out and remind you that you can’t get away with acting more principled than you are when there is obvious evidence just sitting there that you have the same (relatively insignificant) flaws you relish pointing out in your enemies. Do I have my priorities wrong? Sure, Internet Identities is not really an important thing, and peace for Israelis and Palestinians is an important thing, so if I am to write about anything, it should be about that, or perhaps about something else more important than your name. But dozens of people are here to comment on things like that, and I am here to read what you all say, but no one was calling you out so I thought: Now I can say something that’s not redundant. And I thought, perhaps naively, that you might show just a little bit of humility, and the tone around here might improve.

            “Why did you rather introduce this petty distraction about my name?” You did not seem to think names were a petty distraction when you would almost instinctively take up a lot of comment space – even in your otherwise substantive comments – going on about how Brian is Ben and Johnboy is Yeah,Right, and also about how they are both everyone else in the world that you have a problem with. When it involves you, your identity, your persona, suddenly it is a petty distraction? In the grand scheme of things, yes, and again, my apologies are directed to Michael and 972. But you walked into this on your own, and you know it.

            Now, considering I have generously conceded to you that you seem to be right about Yeah, Right and Ben, please answer my questions.

            Can you admit, unequivocally, that you used to post here as Tzutzik?

            As a matter of principle, does it reflect poorly on someone if they have changed their name on the Internet and were not open about it? Please answer generally, irrespective of the person’s political orientation.

            Can you completely reconcile your (minor) deception with your pompous speech about “cowardly tactics”? Can you understand how someone would see your position as hypocritical, even if you disagree with their conclusions?

            Having conceded that you have no proof that MuslimJew is anyone other than MuslimJew, having admitted that you repeat that accusation based on your unsubstantiated hunch, do you agree it is time to retire that meme from your repertoire? Do you agree that, in real life, with your actual reputation at stake and not under the guise of anonymity, you would not accuse a real person of being a repellent separate individual with no substantiation?

            Thank you.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            @E823

            Very interesting. Of all the hypocrisy in here, you noticed “my hypocrisy”. No one elses? Now let me demonstrate that everything that I said was on the level.

            1. I stand by my statement that I never posted simultaneously under more than one name. By your own admission, Tzutzik posted here a year ago. I defy you to show me where he posted here after Gustav started posting here?

            2. I outed Ben AND Brian before him about their habit of posting as MuslimJew because it happened on the same thread and he tried to use that creature to distract attention from his own posts after he tangled himself up. As I said, I believe that there is strong circumstantial evidence to justify my belief. You don’t believe it? That’s ok by me, I say, bully for you.

            3. But there is another reason why I chose to complain about Ben and Brian being the same. Brian uttered a severe slur against the American people. He virtually said that being American renders one to be idiotic. (See my more detailed post about this towards the end of this thread). You want hypocrisy, E823? That is hypocrisy for you right in front of your eyes. Ben never ceases to complain about racism but as Brian, he outed HIMSELF to be a racist.

            4. As for [Yeah Right] and Johnboy being one and the same, I don’t claim that he posted simultaneously under two different names. He has done what I have done. The only reason I mentioned him on this thread for the first time, was because you went to so much trouble about me. I just wanted to show you that what I do here happens with others too.

            5. My reason for assuming the name of Gustav rather than Tzutzik should have been obvious to you given that I said that I will not post here again. Well, I changed my mind yet I did not want to make it obvious. That is the worst sin that you can accuse me of and I am willing to wear that.

            So in summary, E823, I accept your reasons for writing here. In fact, I applaud your reasonableness for accepting most of my proofs even if I did not convince you about MuslimJew.

            Now, I urge you to read Benny’s last two posts. See how is trying to obfuscate about Johnboy and [Yeah Right]. Wanna comment about that too? Preferrably to him, not to me.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Gustav you do amazing things. You accept E328’s reasonableness and care about evidence and congratulate him on that and then you’re right back at it abandoning all reasonableness about evidence in regards to the egregious MuslimJew. Right in the same post! This is hypocritical for one thing, and it’s malicious, Gustav. Here’s another amazing thing you do. You manufacture “facts.” Gustav’s pseudo-fact: Ben “tangled himself up.” Maybe in your mind but not mine and this is yet another example where you state your tendentious interpretation, act as if or insist it’s as factual as 2 + 2 = 4, and then accuse others of lying when they don’t agree! The whole ridiculous accusation that I would resort to interacting with you as MuslimJew rests on the creation inside your mind that I got and felt “tangled up” and desperately needed “an out.” Say what? I for one have never felt this. What I did feel is amazement when this MuslimJew creature would pop out of nowhere like a jack in the box with his bizarre utterances. You never even considered the hypothesis that this guy stalks me as much as you? Here’s another hypotheses you never considered: he is motivated or provoked only by what you say but you tended to get most aggressive about “your Palestinian Arab saints” or whatever when addressing me and so the association you think you see with me is via that link. A scientist would say that that apparent association is confounded and that the actual causal chain is: Ben tends to rile Gustav ==> MuslimJew is provoked by the riled Gustav’s productions ==> therefore the MuslimJew jack in the box often but not always appears when Ben and Gustav are going at it. Here’s another amazing thing. Others have openly lied on these pages. Engaged in malicious slander. It’s demonstrable. Doctored quotes ripped out of context for the purpose of slander. You sat back and said not a thing. But you go on crusades of self righteousness about manufactured pseudo-facts and tendentious interpretations. You’re doing it again with this self righteous crusade all over again about how I was “racist” about “all Americans.” This is a remarkable distortion or at the very least a remarkably tendentious interpretation. And you state it in this rigid, categorical “I accuse you of being a racist”, it’s a fact!” way that is experienced as obnoxious. There’s never any nuance or reasonableness or context in these crusades and accusations. And you tend to never let things go. We are still talking about a ripped out of context statement from months ago? Ok, I was a bit intemperate towards and I wasn’t polite to the lady that day on the Internet but geez. Eis is polite? BigCat is polite? The characters listed below are polite? Hello? Another pseudo-fact: below I am not really “obfuscating” about Johnboy and Yeah Right. I’m poking fun at the whole idea that anyone should care if Yeah Right used to post as Johnboy. It’s a federal case? Call in the FBI? The trolls I list below engage in all sorts of outrages. All the time. Where’s the crusade about that? Gustav this is why I poke fun at you with the wabbit thing. You repeatedly remind me of that guy going off on crusades chasing people up and down hills and down holes in a huge off topic grievance-nurturing waste of time that goes nowhere and appear so stubborn and angry about it. I mean,again, the pseudo-fact you are premising things on is that I’m invested as you are in whether Yeah Right and Johnboy of yore are the same. I’m not. It’s almost like you see this plot: Ben is obfuscating, he’s part of the coverup. I’m not doing that anymore than I got “tangled up” elsewhere. It’s your imagination or interpretation and you’re representing it as fact. Can you please try to lay off that kind of thing and I’ll stop talking about wabbits? Deal? I am mindful of the message E328 in his maturity is conveying by apologizing to Michael for taking up this thread space. All of us should be mindful of that credo. Good grief.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Benny

            I stand by everything that I said about you Benny. You are a shifty debater, you use every trick in the book to obfuscate and to confuse. You fabricate evidence, for instance when you responded to my point about the fact that Abbas has demonstrated his refusal to give up the right of return, you attempted to claim that Ami Kaufman’s article proves me wrong. But in fact, his article actually reinforced what I said. And as I said, you slurred Americans as a people when you posted as Brian. That makes you a hypocrite because you always complain about other people’s racism.

            As for that creature, MuslimJew, I believe that he and you are one and the same. E823is not convinced? That’s fine by me. He is not the one who had to put up with his tirades many times at the end of our numerous debates. Ditto with Brian. Why did he come along with you and Brian? And you are Brian, do you deny that? That even E823 admits. I debated others too and MuslimJew never showed up with them. He only showed up when you or Brian were involved.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            For the record, the following link illustrates what it is like to debate with Benny…

            http://972mag.com/who-needs-the-right-when-we-have-isaac-herzog/107550/

            Look at how he triumphantly tries to vindicate himself by saying that Ami Kaufman’s article negates my point about Abbas’s attitude.

            Then when I pointed out to him that in fact, Ami Kaufman’s article agrees with the facts that I listed and thereby it reinforces (unintentionally) my take on Abbas, Benny just denies it. He looks one straight in the eye and denies the undeniable…

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Look we disagree on this. You’re doing it again, Gustav. Kaufman called that “a deal with the devil.” Hardly sounds like he’s endorsing your viewpoint. I never disputed elementary facts about the conditional offer and the refusal, the mechanics–is that the misunderstanding you’re laboring under all this time?–but I disputed your interpretation of the meaning of those mechanics and what it says about the Palestinians’ willingness to sign a future peace deal and compromise meaningfully on the RoR in the context of that end of conflict settlement. Again you’re taking your tendentious interpretation of a complex reality, saying your interpretation is as indisputable as 2 + 2 = 4, and then claiming I’m doing the equivalent of denying that 2 + 2 = 4. As Yeah Right has said to you so many times I’ve lost count, this is yet another strawman courtesy of Gustav: Benny who denies 2 + 2 = 4. Now, look, you quite rudely persist with the unsupported MuslimJew accusation which amounts to calumny unless it’s just paranoia, and you quite rudely call me a “shifty debater.” No, what I am is someone who sets limits on endless tiresome pseudo-debates that go nowhere and never will. I mean your epic marathon “debates” with Yeah Right, that inevitably escalate into a cartoon, do not whet my appetite to go down the same road. What you’re calling “shiftiness” it seems is my practice of attempting to just get out of the room I’m in when I perceive I’m stuck with someone who keeps gnawing the same bone of contention on and on and doesn’t know when to stop and call it a day and on top of that injects a load of personal venom and grievance-nurturing into it all as if we are in the 18th Century and I besmirched the reputation of the gentleman’s lady or something and he’s honor bound to challenge me to a duel to the death. Here you are chasing after me about a long dead issue, what Ami Kaufman said and what you said and what I said and what you said and what I said and what you said and what I said….. On that page you said “I am game to leave it to REASONABLE people (not the automatons here) to look for themselves and decide” but apparently you’re not game, and you’re not game a full month to the day after you said you were game.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Benny at his best. Obfuscating. Look at my link in my previous post. It tells the whole story.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            BEN:”Hardly sounds like he’s endorsing your viewpoint…”

            Give me patience…

            Benny provides a link to Ami Kaufman’s article in an attempt to negate my point.

            …I point out that the article does not negate my take on Abbas’s attitude about the ROR, if anything it tends to support it (unintentionally because it actually talks about other things…)

            …Benny then comes up with the bright observation that Ami does not endorse my viewpoint…

            …well, duh, of course Ami does not endorse MY viewpoint in general. He is a self professed anti Zionist. But he was talking about something else entirely and Benny should never have tried to use that article to try to negate my point because, I’ll say it again… the facts in Ami’s article actually strengthen my case. Not my viewpoint … but the point that I made about Abbas’s inability to relinquish a maximalist ROR demand.

            Reply to Comment
          • E823

            Gustav,

            I didn’t say or imply that you have used different names at the same time to interact with yourself. But if I did, then I am sorry and I retract that. You have now been very clear about what you did, and I appreciate that you took responsibility. Thank you for clarifying that what Yeah, Right does is no worse.

            Do you have any proof that Ben and Brian ever interacted with each other? Because if not, then everything that you say about his use of multiple aliases being way worse than your use of multiple aliases really hinges on the strength of your MuslimJew theory. Here is why I believe your theory does not hold up.

            MuslimJew first appeared, at least under that name, on 5/13/14. The next post was on a thread from 8/8/14. Between then and 9/18/14 (inclusive of both dates), there were 5 posts on which MuslimJew posted, sometimes as many as about 10 times.

            Of the first 7 threads of MuslimJew’s commenting career, spread out over 4 months, you, Gustav, appear on 5 of these. In most of them MuslimJew at some point hurls insults and invective at various people, and various people back at MuslimJew. In some cases you are the main person MuslimJew interacts with, and things get quite heated. In some cases, MuslimJew’s only role on the thread is a single comment in response to one of yours. In some cases you have no interaction with MuslimJew, who is arguing with someone else while you do your own thing.

            But in none of those first six threads of MuslimJew’s career did anyone named Brian or Ben or even Bryan (who I think even you recognize was never the same person) play a role, not even once. Not with you, not with MuslimJew, not with anyone. Now sure, maybe he had another name before Brian, but I couldn’t find any long-gone name in those threads who writes the same types of things Brian writes, and I certainly couldn’t find any such names who were arguing with you, so I doubt Brian had any presence in those threads.

            It is hard to tell exactly when Brian first started posting, as his name is not as unique as yours (or mine). However, it appears your first interaction with Brian happened on 9/19/14, here: http://972mag.com/against-spy-revelations-israel-doth-protest-too-much/96781/

            Now, interestingly enough, this appears to be the first time MuslimJew commented on a thread Brian was involved in. All three of you said things to each other that were mildly to heavily mean or crass, although what MuslimJew said sounded particularly harsh. Here is a sequence from that thread:

            Gustav: “Crap you finished on the right note, Brian. Tou still have no substance. You still only tell propaganda and lies as John demonstrated and you still have not been able to disprove his claims about your lies.”

            Brian: “I don’t owe any of you characters a lawyer’s brief. I know too much about this conflict for you to bull**** me and I think that bothers you. Tough.”

            Gustav: “You know nothing Brian. OR you are just a liar. Pick your poison.”

            MuslimJew [responding to Gustav]: “He knows you’re a brain-dead muppet, AND a lying SOS. Stop poisoning the well, and go tickle Israel’s taint, dhimmī.”

            Now, immediately thereafter, Brian responded: “Whatever you’re trying to say MuslimJew, it’s off base, off key, and unwelcome. I don’t need this kind of help. No need to take their incivilities one step further.”

            So, for your theory to be plausible, all of the following things must be true.

            1. Brian (someone who changed his name after a while, like you and Johnboy, because that’s a normal and okay thing to do) wants distractions when you corner him, so he mimics someone else to post provocative comments that he expects will distract energy, attention, and threadspace from his humiliating defeat.

            2. The person he created to do this, or at least that he eventually used for this primary purpose, first posted on 5/13/14, on a thread you were present on.

            3. Between 8/8/14 and 9/18/14 you interacted with this individual more than a few times, and some stuff was said, at least by MuslimJew, that I think you would remember having interacted with, i.e., I think you would have known as of 9/18/14 that MuslimJew existed and was someone you didn’t like very much.

            4. On 9/19/14, you first interact with the person who cynically created MuslimJew, Brian.

            5. On 9/19/14, in the same thread, MuslimJew first interacts with Brian, also his creator, for the very first time.

            6. The first thing this creator says is basically, what you’re saying is wrong and not helpful and please stop.

            7. This rejoinder was a ploy staged well in advance to set the groundwork for an elaborate deception. Brian is a devious character and therefore must endorse MuslimJew’s crude slurs even though he says he doesn’t. He has to, he is making them himself. But he’s covering his tracks because he knows ahead of time that this will be scrutinized.

            Etc. etc. etc.

            It just doesn’t make sense. Now my methodology is not perfect. Maybe there’s a date where you or Brian or MuslimJew intersect that I missed, and which makes this timeline make sense. But are you willing to reconsider your theory, or at least keep your assumption to yourself since it seems a little bit too flimsy to parade around as Proven Fact? And if for the sake of argument MuslimJew is not the same person as Brian, then doesn’t that mean Brian hasn’t done anything more deceptive with names than you or Johnboy (neither of which were necessarily deceptive at all)?

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            E823

            Didn’t you say this is the internet? I have nothing more to say about MuslimJew. Like I said, I believe that there is strong circumstantial evidence, at least in my mind that Ben/Brian are one and the same as MuslimJew. Like I also said, definitive proof I haven’t got because obviously if I am right, then Ben/Brian created the persona for a particular purpose and obviously they are going to make sure that they won’t easily be associated. But hey, I don’t expect you or anyone else to agree with me at least not on that issue. Other issues are more cut and dry and I do expect reasonable people to accept compelling evidence. Which Brian/Ben never do.

            Could I be wrong? Yes I could be but we will never know for sure will we? Unless Brian/Ben decide to confess. But how likely is that?

            Now, let’s say I am wrong. That still leaves the matter of Brian’s slur against the American people. Like I said, that makes him a hypocrite because he is always on about racists. That’s another reason why I went to the trouble of identifying Brian to be the same person as Ben as soon as I realized who he was which was pretty early in the piece.

            That’s another reason why I singled out Brian/Ben but not Johnboy/[Yeah Right] who are both equally obnoxious. Ben on the other hand tried to present a holier than thou character and I certainly wasn’t going to let him get away with it once I realized who he is.

            Now, for the record. I can say the same thing about myself as what I said about Johnboy/[Yeah Right]. I too can be and I am obnoxious from time to time both as Gustav and as Tzutzik. But never at the same time.

            In conclusion, E828, I believe I addressed all your questions. The only two things that still remains unresolved is…

            1. This MuslimJew issue. And…

            2. Whether I am the only hypocrite on these pages.

            I don’t think we will end up resolving 1. But 2. We may be able to resolve if you answer that question. Hint: I think there are plenty of hypocrites here, starting with Brian/Ben and I might even name Johnboy/[Yeah Right]. I believe I gave you a couple of examples of their deceptive ways. Wanna discuss those too? Or are we going to obsess about this MuslimJew creature. Remember that I tend to mention him in association with Ben mostly when MuslimJew shows his ugly face. There may have been one or two exception to that. One of those exceptions is THIS thread.

            PS
            I have another reason to believe that my suspicions are right about this MuslimJew but I am not going to reveal that. I don’t want him to know and take countermeasures.

            Reply to Comment
          • E823

            Yeah it’s the Internet, and yes there is no accountability so someone COULD orchestrate a scheme. But, people are not good at not sounding like themselves on the Internet, and they are certainly not patient in their quest for short-term victories in comments sections. So to me, Brian planning out a character months in advance and rolling it out to blend in for 4 months before engaging it in a conversation in a context I would not characterize as a crushing defeat of Brian by you, merely some mutual ad hominems, during which time he tells the character to buzz off, and then gradually using this character more and more for the purpose of staving off your engagements, this all only works if he is hella good at doing this AND if he really thought about it months in advance.

            I think the typical situation in which one creates a sock puppet for opportunistic purposes happens at the time one is cornered. If it were the case that the facts fit such a scenario, I would buy that perhaps he spontaneously created a character to bail himself out, and even that he can disguise himself quite well for a few rounds. But the facts at best support the less plausible months-in-advance theory, which in return requires a determination, consistency, and attention to detail that I think most people, including Brian, and including myself, simply don’t have. People slip up after a while. So it just seems more intuitively likely to me that MuslimJew is just some third party schmuck which is why you don’t like him and why he doesn’t like you and also why Ben told him to buzz off. That is the obvious, non-convoluted explanation. We obviously will agree to disagree. I will drop it. You should too, permanently. If I knew your secret evidence maybe I would agree with you, but you should probably keep it secret.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            E823

            Still on MuslimJew eh?

            Well then here is one last thought for you. Why would you assume that Brian/Ben only debates here? And why would you assume that this MuslimJew type character is the first time that he employed such tactics?

            Is it possible that Brian/Ben has posted on many other forums for many years? And that he used such tactics before elsewhere?

            Well, to me at least it seems like a possibility.

            So seeing that you only want to talk about MuslimJew not other hypocrisies, I am happy to end it here. After all, we wouldn’t want to seem to be obsessed with this MuslimJew, would we, E823?

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            E823:” I would not characterize as a crushing defeat of Brian by you, merely some mutual adhominems”

            This one I can’t quite let go without comment.

            Seeing that you took up so much of MY time about this MuslimJew creature, I really do expect you to look at that post of mine which provides a link to that discussion about Abbas and Ami Kaufman’s article. Here is the link again…

            http://972mag.com/who-needs-the-right-when-we-have-isaac-herzog/107550/

            I really do expect your comment about how you think Ben performed there. I don’t expect acknowledgments like crushing defeat. That would be childish. I just want your comment about whether he conducted an honest debate there. I really do think that had he been willing to recognize the point the point that I was making, I would have more respect towards him. But as it is… well… You know how I feel about him…

            What do YOU think though. Have you anything to say…?

            Reply to Comment
          • Hercules

            Gustav,

            Brian, “E823” “Ben” and “MuslimJew” are the SAME person.
            Brian/Ben is a closet anti-Semite who wants to come across as a “progressive” and does not want to be associated with the open anti-Semitism he spews on this site as “MuslimJew”. After he was exposed as MuslimJew, he got nervous; “MuslimJew” suddenly disappears; “E823” suddenly emerges and has ever since desperately tried to distance “Ben” from “MuslimJew”. “E823” invests ALL OF HIS POSTS ON THIS SITE, not just on this thread, but ON THIS SITE attempting desperately to distance “Ben” from “MuslimJew” and defending Brian, with detailed knowledge of how Bran/Ben/MuslimJew felt and why he felt whatever he felt. “E823” is Brian/Ben/MuslimJew/etc.

            I have other evidence confirming that Ben/MuslimJew/Brian, etc. are one and the same person, but I will save it for another time so that I don’t tip him off. After Brian reads this post, he might change tactics, e.g. “MuslimJew” might re-emerge (soon/in the near future) to muddy the waters; “E823” might start talking about other stuff apart from “MuslimJew is not Ben”, again to muddy the waters. Wait for it…… This Brian/Ben/MuslimJew/E823-guy is a very sick individual.

            Reply to Comment
          • E823

            Gustav,

            I took a look at your link and will comment on it.

            But first, here is a thought experiment: If you asked me to take a look at your link and comment on it, and I said that I agree to take a look at your link and comment on it if you agree that you will never comment again on any thread where I have commented first, then am I agreeing to read your link and comment on it?

            That is relevant it seems, because the debate on that thread seemed like it was about three issues:

            Issue 1. Is an agreement with a condition an agreement? The party that wanted the condition all along would probably say yes, and the party that hoped there would be no such condition would probably say no. Ami Kaufman, it seems, would say “Yes, it is an agreement but the discussion doesn’t end there.”

            Issue 2. Who is morally responsible for the failure to agree to and implement bringing refugees to the West Bank: The party that would only agree with a condition, or the party that would only agree with no conditions? Kaufman, it seems, is saying that the party adding the condition is more responsible. Ben seems to think this to. You seem to think the opposite. In my fantasy world, you both would have made your points as follows: Ben would have said, “I think Israel is morally responsible for failing to bring the refugees because their political condition affecting a relatively finite group of refugees in an emergency situation amounted to not really intending to implement anything,” and you would have replied, “I think you’re wrong, because the Palestinians are actually the ones who are imposing a condition, namely that they will never have to concede anything to Israel, not ever. Therefore, they are responsible when they act to their own detriment.”

            Issue 3. Assuming for the sake of argument that it was wrong for Abbas to reject Israel’s counteroffer, what does that say about him and what, if anything, does it say about Palestinians? This seems like the issue where you really think Ben has evaded your point. You are suggesting that we can draw conclusions from this situation about what would happen in the context of a peace agreement, namely that ” your darlings, the Palestinian Arabs would rather die than give up the so called right of return to Israel proper.” You make the somewhat reasonable point that if Abbas is unwilling to concede anything even in this emergency, how could he possibly concede anything for the much worse purpose of pleasing Israel? I don’t think that adequately takes into account that a peace agreement, unlike an emergency involving refugees, would involve radical changes to the status quo that might reflect well on Abbas (or whomever) if they are perceived as actual accomplishments. Now, you are welcome to reach the conclusion that Abbas himself is a bad man, a cynical politician trading in the misery of his people, or at least a short-sighted hypocrite who is too constrained by the radical elements to take practical steps that are beneficial to some. I think (correct me if I’m wrong) you wanted Ben to concede not only that Abbas was in the wrong, but also that this is clear proof about the permanent motivations of nearly all Palestinians. Ben is under no obligation to agree with you on this point, just as you are under no obligation to agree with him. That doesn’t make either of you liars.

            You seem to be arguing that Ben is lying about material statements contained in Kaufman’s post, whereas you are accurately reporting it. As I read things, Ben only seems to be pointing out that Kaufman agrees more with Ben on Issue # 2 than he agrees with you, and Ben also disputes issue # 1, that we can uncritically call Israel’s conditional agreement an “agreement.” I would hardly call these things lies, and I would hardly call them denying that 2 + 2 = 4. Ben’s argument would have been stronger if he had directly addressed your contention that Abbas’ behavior here necessarily foretells collective group behavior in the context of a serious peace agreement. The worst I could say here is that Ben got lazy. At the same time, your calling him a “BARE FACED LIAR” was not necessary, nor was the 2 + 2 thing. You could have made all of your points without that, and maybe then Ben would have less of a motivation (or an excuse) to give up. Ben certainly didn’t do anything nasty in that thread, and no one showed up to rescue him. He frames the conclusions of Kaufman’s article differently than you do, and that is a bald faced lie?

            Now you probably want me to address Brian’s American comment. I checked it out. On the one hand, Brian did not say that “All Americans are credulous and idiotic.” On the other hand, he did say that “Only Americans are credulous and idiotic.” He is obviously wrong. People in all countries are credulous and idiotic. Now, I’m assuming he is American. If he is not, then he should make more of an effort to get to know the credulous idiots where he is from; he will find they are no different from American credulous idiots. If he is American, then I do feel he is entitled to a more critical view of American culture (I think everyone in the world is entitled to a critical view of American policy, as America is a superpower), although he is still wrong. He should not have introduced or assumed anything about Lisa’s or anyone’s nationality at all, unless maybe Lisa had made a big deal out of it herself. So, as I like to say, he walked right into that by making that comment. He unnecessarily gave you ammunition against him when he should have ignored Lisa’s comment altogether, and his comment and the ensuing distraction added nothing to the discussion. At the same time, I think it takes a lot less malice to make a stupid comment about Only Americans than it would to make a stupid comment about smaller, more vulnerable-to-actual-harm communities such as Only (or All) Jews or Only (or All) Palestinians, both of which we see here more often than we should have to. I am American and I am not offended by the comment, I just think it is inaccurate and I think the logic of such statements is always wrong.

            Do you agree that there are voices here (let’s exclude you and Ben from the discussion) who routinely debase collective groups that are more vulnerable to actual harm than Americans? How do you think is a good way for 972mag to handle this type of ignorance?

            Also, since I have addressed your points, are you willing to tell Hercules that, in your opinion, I am not an alias of anyone else?

            Reply to Comment
          • Hercules

            This is getting way too hilarious!

            Brian alias “E823” alias “MuslimJew” alias “Ben” alias etc. talking about himself, explaining himself, defending himself, congratulating himself, patting himself on the back, etc.

            Go take you meds, you psychotic psychopath!

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            E823

            I asked you to comment about the debate between me and Benny. Not about world hunger…

            It started like this…

            1. Benny claimed that the Palestinian Arabs only want a symbolic right of return.

            2. I reminded Benny of Abbas’s point blank rejection of saving refugees from Syrian camps if it would involve them having to give up their so called right of return (ROR).

            3. I reminded Benny that such a rejection meant condemning many of those refugees to death.

            4. I then made the point that such an attitude does not bode well about Abbas’s willingness to settle for ONLY a symbolic ROR.

            5. As a further emphasis, I reminded Benny about Abbas’s reaction to Olmert’s peace offer, as recounted by Condi Rice in her memoirs. According to her, he responded by bringing up the 4 million refugees and that he can’t agree to the return of ONLY 5000 refugees.

            6. Benny completely ignored my 5.

            7. He tried to glibly dismiss my other points by invoking Ami Kaufman’s article.

            8. I then pointed out to him that Ami’s article does not even address the point that I am making and in fact, he corroborates (unintentionally) the FACTS which I raised.

            9. Benny then just went into denial mode.

            Here is the link again, just for the record…

            http://972mag.com/who-needs-the-right-when-we-have-isaac-herzog/107550/

            But that’s the best you (E823) can say about it? By bringing everything into it but the proverbial kitchen sink?

            Not only that, but you tried your best to minimize Brian/Ben’s slur against the American people?

            Frankly, E823, I don’t know what to make of your answer. But considering your earlier enthusiasm to label me a hypocrite, frankly, I am disappointed with your answer. You seem to be willing to go to a hell of a lot of trouble to try and whitewash this Brian/Benny character. Why?

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            E823

            Let me further elaborate why I am disappointed with your response.

            First: because there is NOTHING in Ami Kaufman’s article which contradicts the point that I made. Yet Benny tried to pretend that Ami’s article debunks my point.

            You disagree? Then let me issue a challenge to you…

            Quote a sentence from Ami’s article which says that Abbas would be willing to accept a token ROR in final status negotiations. The closest you will come to it is this sentence…

            “Even Abbas, who although said to Channel 2 that he “has no right to live in Safed,”

            …but that is immediately followed by the following sentence…

            “….could never agree to imposing such a ridiculous condition on other Palestinians.”

            That sentence actually reinforces MY CLAIM NOT Benny’s claim.

            Second: Benny completely ignored my point about Condi Rice’s memoirs which also contradicts Benny’s assertion that Abbas would accept a token ROR.

            For the record (again) Condi says that Abbas started quibbling immediately after he heard that Olmert’s peace offer would allow only 5000 to “return”. He said, what am I going to say to 4 million Palestinians?

            In summary…

            It is my opinion that in that thread, Benny showed dishonesty by trying to pretend that Ami’s article vindicates him. I gave him a chance to correct himself but he stood his ground and tried to stare me down.

            Benny also showed shiftiness by ignoring my quote of Condi Rice.

            Well, I am showing to Benny that just because this is the internet, you can’t evade responsibility by trying to stare people down. He can only make himself appear dishonest. Any reasonable thoughtful person would agree with me if he/she takes the trouble to read what happened between us. But Benny hopes that this will not happen too often. Sadly, I think he is probably right. I was hoping though that you E823 are a reasonable person. Was I wrong?

            Reply to Comment
          • E823

            Gustav,

            The fact that you are unwilling to say a word to Hercules disagreeing with him about my identity despite the fact that I have conceded many points to you, taken time to comment on what you wanted me to comment on, and acknowledged that you took responsibility for your action says plenty about you. I’m done.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            That’s a bit rich, E828. Why exactly do you expect me to say anything about your identity? We don’t know each other do we? I do know that you tried to paint me as a hypocrite but you are awfully defensive of BEN.

            Now read my post at the end of this thread. Because I actually remembered and therefore went to look for, and found a few more interesting posts relating to this sordid saga…

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            E823, thanks for the analysis of the American thing. I agree with it. The point–about vulnerability and about voices here who routinely debase collective groups that are much more vulnerable–is well taken.

            Except don’t you think there are some important differences of meaning and context in these two statements?

            “Only Americans are credulous and idiotic.”

            “No one else [but an American] could sound so credulous and so idiotic” [said sarcastically in the context of the fundamentalist religious rhetoric and justification that the lady employed, which sounded rather typically American Christian Zionist fundamentalist to my ear on that day at that time and still does]

            Context is everything here. Sarcasm in context. Now twisted–by the 18 Century gentleman in an eccentric months long angry crusade–to mean I categorically declared all of my fellow Americans to be idiots. Yet anyone with the slightest feel for context and meaning knows that that is a distortion. Now I realize my retort to the lady was intemperate and impolite. I accept responsibility for that. But please, “Americans”–citizens of the quintessential melting pot nation–are a “race”? In any common sense usage the term “racism” implies? Please. The 18th Century gentleman pulled out an encyclopedic definition of racism once I think to pedantically make his point but again no honest person reading my statement would reasonable accuse me of “racism.” Good grief the nonsense I have to parry. (On the other hand, I, truly willing to let reasonable people judge that themselves and willing to accept it if they disagree with me, will definitely not go on an eccentric months long crusade marching up and down the Internet to get that ‘Arch Villain Gustav Tzutzikovsky,’ or any other disagree-er to submit on bended knee and confess he “lied” because he disagrees with me! Lord have mercy.)

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Poor old lonely Brian/Benny/Bryan/MuslimJew consoling himself again. LOL.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Poor Benny, he feels persecuted.

            Pity he hasn’t looked at his own posts and the posts of his coreligionist (extremist) anti Israel crusaders who have been posting here. They are not shy to admonish us as Fascist, racist Hasbara trolls.

            They can dish it out but they cannot handle a bit of stick in return. There is a very apt word to describe Benny and his ilk. But I’ll refrain. It seems the poor dear has suffered enough.

            Reply to Comment
          • Electric Avenue

            You have impressive forensic skills and unlike many of the big-talkers here, you present evidence to compliment your words, Credibility is tremendous currency in the war of opinion.

            Regardless of the association, Gustav is on the right side of ethics and history his contributions are appreciated. He also deserved the opportunity to respond to your posting of course.

            This should be easy for you, so can you kindly show evidence to the assumption that Ben is one and the same with Brian? Doing so would greatly improve the civility on these boards and the quality of the 972 experience. Thank you in advance.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            What?

            No more posting allowed here again by +972?

            So E823 is allowed to say what he wants about me, but I have no right of response?

            Censorship is back in here with a vengeance. Two of my posts were suppressed. Let’s see what will happen to this one…?

            Reply to Comment
          • Hercules

            Yup, Gustav, +972 moderators are playing their dirty games. The foreigners here are allowed to say anything, smear Israel, Israeli posters and supporters of Israel. But when Israeli posters and supporters of Israel say something, their posts are removed and they are banned according to the wishes of their foreign supporters.

            In any case, the individual called Brian alias “Ben” is also “E823”. On this thread he is posting as “Lam” and “E823” at the same time. +972 lets him do that.

            These are his other aliases on this site: Brian alias “Ben” alias “E823” alias “MuslimJew” alias “David T.” alias “Brian G.” alias “Dekkers” alias “Giora Me’ir” alias “Givara” alias “A Consciencious Objector” alias “Michael’s Mind” alias “David Grant” alias “Lam”, alias etc.

            Reply to Comment
          • Electric Avenue

            Hi Gustav,
            I hope that it is not the case and we get to see your delayed postings.

            Of mine is not showing as well in which I spoke of your contributions in flattering terms. I hope that you do not get discouraged

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Oh, I see, they are proud of their censorship.

            Fine then, [Yeah Right] or Johnboy or whatever YOUR name is. You are free to keep on posting your polemics without someone like me giving you a hard time.

            Reply to Comment
          • Hercules

            Yup, Gustav, +972 moderators are playing their dirty games. The foreigners here are allowed to say anything, smear Israel, Israeli posters and supporters of Israel. But when Israeli posters and supporters of Israel say something, their posts are removed and they are banned according to the wishes of their foreign supporters.

            In any case, the individual called Brian alias “Ben” is also “E823”. On this thread he is posting as “Lam” and “E823” at the same time. +972 lets him do that.

            These are his other aliases on this site: Brian alias “Ben” alias “E823” alias “MuslimJew” alias “David T.” alias “Brian G.” alias “Dekkers” alias “Giora Me’ir” alias “Givara” alias “A Consciencious Objector” alias “Michael’s Mind” alias “David Grant” alias “Lam”, alias etc.

            3rd time i am posting this same post. +972 moderators are very dishonest, people!

            Reply to Comment
          • Marnie

            Why not just stick to the topic at hand instead of the constant distraction, either with “YeahRight” or “Ben”? It’s not amusing or relevant but does strongly suggest you’ve got nothing to add so instead of silence, you interrupt with distractions. It’s like you’re holding up a huge sign that says “I got NOTHING!, but I’ll occupy (pun intended) this space in case I come up with something”. Tick tock.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Because, you and your friends, [Yeah Right] and E823 don’t. They use every dirty trick in the book to vindicate themselves and push through their polemics at all costs.

            Just look at how this [Yeah Right] come Johnboy treats Ginger and every pro Israeli he argues with. No matter how often Ginger complains about his sexism and condencension, she is ignored. Why does it bother you if someone like me comes along and makes him face his own words? Yes, his own words. Look at the links that I gave you.

            As for this E823, look how selective he is with his accusations. And how persistent. And how completely out of topic his message is. You know what his role is? To try and discredit what people like me stand for. And what’s the best he can do with that? He says I used to post here under a different name.

            Reply to Comment
    5. Hercules

      Ben/E823

      “E823”/“Brian”/“Ben”/“MuslimJew”/etc. are ONE and the SAME person! He is very angry because he has been exposed as a fraud and he is seeking revenge like the psychopath he is.

      Tell us, “E823”, why are you troubled by the fact that “Ben” is accused of being “MuslimJew”? Why does that evoke strong feelings on your part – given that “E823” was not even when “MuslimJew” was exposed as an anti-Semite? Why do you go on and on and on about how bad “Ben’s” feelings are hurt and how do you know that?

      Reply to Comment
      • Gustav

        So what is the other reason why I found it necessary to identify BEN and BRIAN as one and the same person?

        …because of the following RACIST comment by BRIAN to a woman called LISA, here…

        http://972mag.com/bibi-those-who-call-to-destroy-israel-should-have-citizenship-revoked/98537/

        “BRIAN:”You MUST be an American. No one else could sound so credulous and so idiotic”

        Make no mistake about it, BRIAN/BEN is slurring ALL Americans when he utters such sentiments. I wan’t people to be aware of that side of BEN.

        Reply to Comment
    6. Ben

      Ahem. The only thing I have to say is that I think that the use of the Warner Bros Elmer Fudd classic “Be vewy vewy quiet, I’m hunting wabbits!” is brilliantly apropos in this case. What a case. And the ongoing fulminations on this page in July 2015 only confirm that. Thanks for linking to Brian’s and Ben’s greatest hits and in such a nice orderly fashion. That must have been a lot of work. I had a *chortle* revisiting the silliness even though amazingly in spite of that fact I am neither Johnboy nor Yeah Right. Note also that Ben has not been dishonest but simply has never commented on the long retired Brian. Ben has maintained consistent dignified radio silence on this. It’s called “Don’t Feed the Trolls.” Only a completely humorless pack of slavering trolls would fail to get that and make an effing ridiculous federal case out of it. E328 quite correctly and with aplomb identifies the issues of integrity, the hypocrisies, the non-issues, and the over-excited obsessions involved in this federal case making. And it’s not my fault that they’re totally obsessed with me and have dedicated their lives to me; and probably have a shrine to me in the corner of their rooms; and lovingly craft Ben and Brian dolls and stick pins in them. Personally I think a Bugs Bunny doll would be a better choice. And remember, neither a chortle nor an ahem does a Johnboy make. Now be vewy vewy quiet. Tzutzik is hunting wabbits!

      Reply to Comment
      • Gustav

        Poor old Benny. Now he is in denial about Johnboy/[Yeah Right]. Even his new hero, E823, admits that reasonable people would conclude that Johnboy = [Yeah Right].

        Anyone can google it and verify that they sound identical.

        Reply to Comment
        • Gustav

          Then again…

          If HERCULES is right about BEN = E823, and I am not saying whether he is or he isn’t, it could be Benny’s ploy to try and throw people off track about his possible new alias, by professing a different opinion about Johnboy/[Yeah Right]’s single identities. Heck, it wouldn’t be for the first time that he used aliases. We definitely proved that…

          BRIAN = BRYAN = BEN

          It is also highly likely that they are all also MUslimJew.

          I must admit, I am of two minds about E823. At first, I was convinced that he is a new manifestation of Brian/Bryan/Ben. Then when he acted as if he is willing to accept the undeniable facts, I thought that he may just be a normal individual.

          But then, he started defending Benny obsessively and obfuscating like Benny does when he is in trouble, I did have second thoughts about E823 too. But I will let it rest. I don’t know either way.

          Reply to Comment
    7. Ben

      Actually I thought of one more thing to say. Let’s give credit where credit is due. On a serious note, E823, I’m grateful to you for so clearly, calmly and persuasively exposing so much dishonest nonsense. As you know, it’s a waste of time for the target of this kind of attack in a hostile troll environment* to bother to defend himself because it only invites more abuse, more deviousness, more circles in a multi-ring circus and the trolls’ whole purpose is to endlessly and mindlessly distract. Paying any attention to them at all gives them the attention they crave. Excuse my pun, but it’s a wabbit hole with no end one dives down if one plays the game. Anything you say can and will be used to create more distractions and nonsense and layers of lies and one has better things to do and one also wants to spare others the nonsense. More than one intelligent reader has been driven off by it. (Remember the estimable Ellen?) I always wondered if some independent third party might step in and sort things out and you have, quite elegantly and efficiently.

      _______________
      * BTW, speaking of a hostile troll environment, just in the past few months two of the trolls frothing and slavering right here on this page and haranguing and lying and carrying on about names in the pettiest fashion have posted in my estimation under some twenty-three (23) names.** At least, since I’m sure we missed some. Twenty-three. Now that’s funny! Sometimes hypocrisy is so outrageous it’s downright comical. Some of these names, however, have been used to make grossly offensive, raw sexual statements with a persistent theme of sexual assault and being degrading towards Palestinian Arab women (everyone saw them; before they were removed by +972). Not funny. At all.

      **Merav, ICat, Daniel, Theodore, Oingo-Boingo, BigCat, Zeus***, Hercules***, Sluggo, Phil Fumble, RickyRocket, CCDeville, New Relic, Cupcake, Pierre, SwedishChef, Peter North, Cowboy***, Sum Ting Wong***, Luc Longely***, Electric Avenue***, Tojo***, Meatball***

      ***deployed in just the last few weeks alone. Several have been banned for gross offenses.

      OK. Hypocrisy anyone? Of mind-boggling proportions. Comedy anyone? Let’s just say The Three Stooges come to mind.

      Reply to Comment
      • Hercules

        You Go take your meds, psychotic moron!

        Reply to Comment
    8. Hercules

      The best SELF-psychoanalysis this psychopath called Brian alias “E823” alias “Ben” alias “MuslimJew” alias etc. can make of himself:

      “Gustav
      Tuesday
      July 7, 2015

      Want duplicate personalities here in +972 land, E823? Here, looky here…
      BRIAN:”Marnie: Shhh. Be vewy vewy quiet, Gustav is hunting wabbits.
      BEN:”Now stop chasing me around. Wabbit hunting season is over.
      BRIAN:”translation: Be vewy vewy quiet! I am hunting wabbits!
      Huh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh!
      BEN:”Lookie here at what I demonstrated you wascally wabbit!
      LOL, wabbits all over the place…

      Ben
      Thursday
      July 9, 2015

      “….Thanks for linking to Brian’s and Ben’s greatest hits and in such a nice orderly fashion. That must have been a lot of work. (…). Note also that Ben has not been dishonest but simply has never commented on the long retired Brian. Ben has maintained consistent dignified radio silence on this. It’s called “Don’t Feed the Trolls.” Only a completely humorless pack of slavering trolls would fail to get that and make an effing ridiculous federal case out of it”.

      “E823
      Friday
      July 10, 2015

      “Gustav…….

      1. Brian (someone who changed his name [TO BEN] after a while, like you and Johnboy, because that’s a normal and okay thing to do) wants distractions when you corner him, so he mimics someone else to post provocative comments that he expects will distract energy, attention, and threadspace from his humiliating defeat. (capitalize insertion added)

      2. The person he created to do this [MuslimJew], or at least that he eventually used for this primary purpose, first posted on 5/13/14, on a thread you were present on.

      3. Between 8/8/14 and 9/18/14 you interacted with this individual more than a few times, and some stuff was said, at least by MuslimJew, that I think you would remember having interacted with, i.e., I think you would have known as of 9/18/14 that MuslimJew existed and was someone you didn’t like very much.

      4. On 9/19/14, you first interact with the person who cynically created MuslimJew, Brian.

      5. On 9/19/14, in the same thread, MuslimJew first interacts with Brian, also his creator, for the very first time.

      6. The first thing this creator says is basically, what you’re saying is wrong and not helpful and please stop.

      7. This rejoinder was a ploy staged well in advance to set the groundwork for an elaborate deception. Brian is a devious character and therefore must endorse MuslimJew’s crude slurs even though he says he doesn’t. He has to, he is making them himself. But he’s covering his tracks because he knows ahead of time that this will be scrutinized”

      “E823” know exactly what goes on in Brian/Ben’s mind as anyone of us knows what goes on in his own mind. There you have your Ultimate Cyber Psychopath, folks.

      ‘nuff said – for now!

      Reply to Comment
      • Gustav

        Eureka!!!

        I knew in the back of my mind that there was something else. Look at the link below…

        http://972mag.com/this-election-libermans-racism-is-going-mainstream/101456/

        On 01/20/2015
        I posted the following post to a character who called himself Bryan (Note, NOT Brian). And Bryan too was a regular poster….
        ———-
        GUSTAV:”Nice rant Bryan…
        Once again, Liberman is not telling Arab Israeli citizens to go home if they don’t like it. He is telling them that they can stay in their homes, together with the rest of their society.

        What he IS telling them is that since they detest their lot as Israeli citizens, they can become citizens of the proposed shiny New Democratic Palestinian state where everyone would be treated equally, even Jews?! What is your objection to that offer?

        Don’t bother giving me your BS answer. It is a rhetorical question designed to expose your hypocrisy. You are no friend of ours. In past posts of yours you questioned even our right to exist.”

        ———–

        …and voila, who do you think responded? You guessed it, none other than BRIAN himself. This is what he said…

        ———–

        BRIAN:”The King of Ranters tells me I rant. Since you reappeared all you’ve done is spray one tedious long rant after another. You were an ass to Baladi today btw. Friend of “ours”? Who is ours? Do Zonszein, Omer-Man, Derfner, Sternhell et al. not belong to your club either? Don’t bother to answer. Go have lunch with Hairball instead.”

        ————

        Conclusion: BRIAN was posting simultaneously as BRYAN. When I confronted him with that fact, BRIAN was most irate.

        And guess what, later on, none other than MuslimJew showed up too. What a coincidence, NOT! Read on folks. That thread was very interesting. LOL.

        So the plot thickens. BEN already admitted (under duress) that indeed he is BRIAN. And now we know that BRIAN also posted simultaneously as BRYAN. Those are undeniable facts. Who else is involved in this hoax? MuslimJew very very likely. Who else?

        Any comments, E828?

        Reply to Comment
        • Gustav

          Hey Marnie, dear. You were highly impressed with E823 earlier on. This is what you said to him…

          MARNIE:”Awesome E823.”

          Are you going to congratulate me too now?

          Nah… Don’t bother… I am just kidding… I don’t need congratulations from the likes of you.

          Reply to Comment
        • Ben

          *sigh* I’m *very* happy to let anyone go to that page and read that Seinfeldesque comedy and draw their own conclusions. I’m going to have to start calling you George again. Or Newman. I just have one question for you. Do you realize how ridiculously obsessive and paranoid you look? Do you? Do you have any insight into the fact that you managed to disgust the very nice (much nicer than me!) E328 in record time and why that is and why he/she is done with you? You know it is quite clear I completely flummox you and all you’ve got left is this astoundingly obsessive troll thing: the strawman of Ben the poster under other names. Do you do anything in life but grumble and mutter to yourself about that guy on the Internet, Benny? I can just see you walking around, your head hanging low, muttering to yourself “that goddamn Benny….” Do you ever leave this site? To think of the hours and hours Sheriff Gustav and his Deputy BigCat aka 10 other names have spent galloping across the Internet in search of the high crimes and misdemeanors of “Benny the Arch Fiend and Foe, Fie and a Pox on Him that wily wascally Wabbit!” Both driven by manifest conspiracy thinking. Pretty weird.

          “Any reasonable thoughtful person would agree with me” (up above in your absolutely classic “let me further elaborate why I am disappointed….”)

          “Those are undeniable facts.”

          Amazing. These both are the 2+2=4 maneuver all over again. You won’t let that go. No one else here insists everyone has to agree with them!

          Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            For the record…

            I was not the one who started this discussion about dual identities on this thread…

            E823 introduced this topic. And now it backfired on …

            Brian/Bryan/Ben/MuslimJew.

            Check out E823’s first post on this thread.

            Reply to Comment
          • Hercules

            @ Brian alias “Ben” alias “E823” alias “MuslimJew” alias “Bryan” alias etc.

            One word: ‘Offender knowledge’! The French call it: ‘connaissance du délinquant’. A phrase that also plays a role in that regard is “self-serving statements”. When criminals are confronted, they are always told: “you have a right to remain silent and everything you say could be used against you”, but some of them think that they are very clever; they neglect clear warnings to remain silent; they think that they can talk, hoodwink the cops and get them off track. And when they do talk, they end up providing information regarding the crime that ONLY the person who committed the act itself would have, and then they turn around and deny having committed the act with some “explanations” and spins that favors them and intended to steer the cops away from them and to other directions, while not knowing that their “explanations and spins” are in fact considered worthless “self-serving statements” the cops are not buying into!

            E823 knows about Brian/Ben/MuslimJew/etc. the way NO ONE else but ONLY Brian/Ben/MuslimJew would know of himself. That is SELF-EVIDENT from the portion of E823’s comment that I copied and pasted verbatim above. The “explanation and spins” you provided to convince us that E823 is not Brian/Ben/MuslimJew/etc are nothing but “self-serving statements”. It is completely expected that you will be doing that.

            FOR THE RECORD
            This whole discussion was started by YOU – for no apparent reason! First you post as E823 to smear Gustav and defend, whitewash Brian/Ben/MuslimJew (why does E823 have the compulsive emotional need to do that?); then you post as “Electric Avenue” to congratulate and pat yourself on the back and throw everyone else off track; when you botched and lost the game you started, you come back as “Ben”, moaning, weeping, pitying yourself and blaming everyone else than yourself for your botched operation and your own stupidity. Unlike you who has sent several post to +972 complaining about other posters here, I am not asking them to ban you. I ask you to seek psychiatric help. You are a psychopath! And you need serious help!

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            The French call you ‘un faire-valoir.’ Battle it out with Gustav you twit (crétin, imbécile).

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Now, now… Benny…temper, temper. Watch the language.

            And no, you are not worth fighting over.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            LOL.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Poor old Benny…

            He is a middle aged drop out who grew up on a diet of Bugs Bunny and Seinfeld.

            Now he has nothing better to do with his life than devour anti Israel publications and post useless posts. He is pathetic and obsessive.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            I think it’s funny how you guys always adopt my vocabulary. GrossKatze does this all the time. Ooh there’s a big word Ben used lemme turn it around and try it out! LoL.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Benny:”I think…”

            Stop exaggerating.

            Benny:”…it’s funny how you guys always adopt my vocabulary”

            No, Benny, we are not one of your aliases.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            07/14/2015
            BEN:”I think it’s funny how you guys always adopt my vocabulary.”

            07/09/2015
            E823:” I thought, yeah, I should take this opportunity to send a little reality check that, no, we can’t just get away with whatever we want just because it is the Internet.”

            07/14/2015
            GUSTAV:”Well, I am showing to Benny that just because this is the internet, you can’t evade responsibility by trying to stare people down.”

            Is this a kind of admission by Benny that E823 IS one of his sock puppets? Maybe, I’ll refrain from jumping to conclusions. People can judge for themselves…

            Reply to Comment
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