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Update: Ministers and general did not honor Lior

As reported earlier this week, Dov Lior – a leading rabbi who supported the gentile slaying guidebook, Torat Ha’Melekh – received honors yesterday by the local council of Hebron Mountain. However, the two ministers (Moshe “Boogie” Ya’alon and Eli Yishai) and general (Avi Mirahi) who were supposed to grace the event with their presence have all canceled their appearance (Hebrew).

Neither one of them explained why he canceled his appearance. Ma’ariv, who published the original report, claims that it deterred them from showing up. The settler local council claimed the cancellation was the result of a scheduling mix-up.

So apparently neither the two active politicians nor the one still in uniform are happy to be seen – by the general public, at any rate –  with a notorious rabbi and inciter. I guess that’s some sort of progress.

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    1. max

      Yossi, by the time you published your first post it was already known that Ya’alon was scheduled to meet with Turkish officials at that time.
      Interestingly, it was also published in Ma’ariv…
      But why research?

      Reply to Comment
    2. Sylvia

      No one of import will ever meet Lior after the Rishon Letzion Israel Sephardi Chief Rabbi Harav Amar spoke on the matter.
      Most Israelis listen to the Sephardi Chief rabbi. But you listen to Lior? I have never heard of him until now.
      Perhaps you should post the Chief Rabbi’s statement on those rabbis and let’s move on?
      That would be the honest thing to do. Although…

      Reply to Comment
    3. Clif Brown

      I get a feeling of inevitability to the course of events in Israel. How can a bad outcome be headed off when the state and religion are inextricably bound together? Not to mention the concept of combining religious education with the military. As the religious become ever more self-righteous and above question in their own minds, their own countrymen become more suspect.

      When a higher being is invoked (or a higher book) that is supposed to order lives beyond the claim of secular laws and the people making the claim have power that the non-religious are afraid to limit (or do so haltingly and with obsequiousness) then there is only more trouble ahead.

      The U.S. has plenty of religious extremists but they are kept in their place by being prevented from running religious political parties.

      My sense is that the Palestinians need only stand by and watch to see the colossus crumble without any external push either from internal divisions or from disgusted immigration. Ben Gurion’s big mistake – his concession to the religious will do the trick as all those intrepid secular pioneer kibbutzim are long forgotten and Israel is fully emergent as something those folks never envisioned.

      Most fantastic of all is the continuing belief by many Americans (who think the evening news is really the news) that the US and Israel are just two peas in a pod.

      Separation of church and state – one thing that we got right!

      To the religious it’s only fitting to quote a religious man, Oliver Cromwell speaking to a religious body in 1650: “I beseech you in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken.”

      Reply to Comment
    4. Sylvia

      Clif your argument is well presented and coherent. It would be even convincing had it taken into account the social/religious fabric in the Middle East, where all religious matters are interrelated for all religions. There were many attempts to change the religious system, beginning with the cancellation of the Ministry of religious affairs a few years ago, but it didn’t work because the other faiths need those services.

      And a secular Israel cannot come about without interfering with the other religions in place, not only in Israel but in the surrounding countries as well simply because you can’t change the system “just for the Jews”.
      You can institutionalize civil marriage all you want, it will not work in the case of a Christian marrying a Muslim, a Shia marrying a Sunni, a Copt marrying a Jew.
      As to the present issue, the real reason for the brouhaha and rabbis scandals is that they are on a protest campaign. Their complaint is that they have lesser rights than University scholars before the law in terms of free speech. They prove it by a making crazy statements that get them arrested, while others can incite all they please and nothing ever happens to them.
      About what was really said in that book, nobody really knows. He says it’s just a quote from the Bible, not his opinion, others say it’s incitement. I haven’t read the book and I am prepared to bet neither has Yossi Gurvitz.

      Reply to Comment
    5. Have you read Mein Kampf, Sylvia? No? Guess you can’t criticize it, then.

      While I did not read the whole mess, I did read the summary published by the rabbis who wrote it. It has the same relation to the Bible as Mein Kampf to a history of WWI.

      The authors call for the murder of non-Jewish children – *particularly* gentile children – “if there is good reason to think they may harm us in the future”. And they further say that, when killing a gentile who does not observe the 7 “Laws of the Sons of Noah”, you just have to mean to kill him for that offense. Since no one obeys all them, this is basically open season on gentiles.

      Now, you can say that the reasoning of the rabbis is flawed, that what they say is contrary to centuries of Halachic decisions, and that they are raving, mad dogs whose books ought to be burned – more sane rabbis have said all of the above. But to compare this to academic freedom is bullshit, and the people who use this excuse generally know it’s bullshit. Now it’s your turn to tell us whether you’re a willful distorter of the facts or a useful idiot.

      Reply to Comment
    6. Sylvia

      What is the full reference for that book, Yossi? I am prepared to buy it and see for myself (if i don’t get killed just mentioning it at the bookstore).
      Personally, I think “people of the cloth” should be held to higher standards and that goes for every religion. They don’t think so. They think the person who called for a civil war between the right and the left should be arrested just like they were.
      Where are you on the freedom of speech issue. This is one of the numerous aspects of this discussion that should be thoroughly explored.
      That’s beside the fact that these people are unknowns and have no following – at least not in my Sephardic milieu. It may look different from your angle.

      Reply to Comment
    7. max

      I find the book, and the author’s previous published ideas revolting.
      I doubt that in Israel, as in most democratic countries, such views can be prosecuted, but they must be condemned.
      I have exactly the same position about Jad Neeman’s statements

      Reply to Comment