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The questions nobody is asking about Hebron shooting

Could Israeli soldiers have arrested, instead of killed a young knife-yielding woman in Hebron? And what will happen to those soldiers if it turns out they shot when they didn’t need to?

A young Palestinian woman was shot dead by Israeli soldiers in the occupied city of Hebron Tuesday morning, hours before the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur and the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Adha.

As usual, there are — at least — two conflicting narratives. There are also a number of details everyone agrees on.

Hadeel al-Hashlamon arrived at the “Shoter” checkpoint in the West Bank city of Hebron Tuesday morning. She set off a metal detector and soldiers started yelling at her in Hebrew.

Here is where the narratives diverge. According to Palestinian witnesses who spoke with the press, she did not understand the commands being yelled by the soldiers, froze and pulled out her bag for inspection. Soldiers then shot toward her, striking her in the lower and upper body.

Israeli military spokespeople told reporters that Hashlamon pulled a knife out of her bag and did not respond to soldier’s commands, and moved toward them with the knife before they shot her. The army supplied media outlets with photos of a knife on the ground, purported to be the one held by Hashlamon.

Let’s assume that she had a knife. Attempted stabbings are no rare occurrence at West Bank checkpoints.

And although no footage of the shooting itself has been released (the military most likely has surveillance footage of the incident), there are a few things we do know about what went down.

In photos of the incident, in which two soldiers can be seen with their guns trained on Hashlamon, there is a distance of at least a couple of meters and a metal barrier separating between her and the soldiers. Photos and video of Hashlamon’s body after she was shot show that she was behind the metal barrier at the time the soldiers shot her.

Bystander Fawaz Abu Aisheh attempts to translate the soldiers’ commands for Hashlamon, and convinces her to step back behind the metal barrier. (Photo courtesy of Youth Against Settlements)

Bystander Fawaz Abu Aisheh attempts to translate the soldiers’ commands for Hashlamon, and convinces her to step back behind the metal barrier. (Photo courtesy of Youth Against Settlements)

Hadeel al-Hashlamon stands frozen at the ‘Shoter’ checkpoint as soldiers train their weapons on her in downtown Hebron. (Photo courtesy of Youth Against Settlements)

Hadeel al-Hashlamon stands frozen at the ‘Shoter’ checkpoint as soldiers train their weapons on her in downtown Hebron. (Photo courtesy of Youth Against Settlements)

Why were multiple M16 rounds necessary to stop a young knife-wielding woman meters away behind a metal barrier?

One might even ask why combat soldiers with assault rifles, instead of say, police with Tasers and batons and pistols, are manning a checkpoint for civilians in the center of a city. (Ironically, the checkpoint’s name, “Hashoter” actually means policeman in Hebrew.)

And herein lies the problem with sending combat soldiers who don’t speak the local language to police a civilian population. Even with the most sensitive rules of engagement, soldiers are trained first and foremost to kill people, not defuse complex situations and safely make arrests.

It’s acceptable in Israel to send soldiers to rule over a Palestinian civilian population because Palestinian lives do not matter to the Israeli establishment. Just how cheap Palestinian blood is can be seen in the extraordinarily rare punishments given to the young men and women who spill it.

The chance is virtually nil that these soldiers will face any punishment even if it turns out they shot when they didn’t need to, or if they violated regulations in a way that unnecessarily caused Ms. Hashlamon’s death.

To better understand the impunity Israeli soldiers have when it comes to killing Palestinians, read our License to Kill series here on +972 Magazine.

The day after the killing, Palestinian residents of Hebron held a protest with photos of the Israeli soldier aiming his weapon at Hashlamon and demanding an international protection force to protect them from the Israeli army.

 

Palestinians protesting in Hebron demanding an international protection force against the Israeli army. The banner shows a photo of an Israeli soldier aiming his weapon at Hadeel al-Hashlamon moments before shooting her to death. The army claims she threatened soldiers with a knife. Palestinians claim she did not pose an immediate threat to the soldiers. (Photo courtesy of Youth Against Settlements)

Palestinians protesting in Hebron demanding an international protection force against the Israeli army. The banner shows a photo of an Israeli soldier aiming his weapon at Hadeel al-Hashlamon moments before shooting her to death. The army claims she threatened soldiers with a knife. Palestinians claim she did not pose an immediate threat to the soldiers. (Photo courtesy of Youth Against Settlements)

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    COMMENTS

    1. nullifidian

      Why automatically accept the army story that she had a knife? At this point an objective observer must say we don’t know. The army must release video of the event so we may judge for ourselves.

      Reply to Comment
    2. Average American

      Many many alternatives to this. This “checkpoint” looks more like a lazy countryside strawberry stand than a military enforcement point. How about all such posts must have interpreters present during operation. Or soldiers stand on raised platforms with chain link fence between them and pedestrians (shoot over the top of the fence if necessary). Or soldier training is not so damned inflammatory (evidenced by their extreme reaction). Soldiers think every Arab is going to blow them up, and Arabs think every soldier is going to shoot them. What a mess.

      Reply to Comment
    3. Vacy

      The number of bullets fired into the defenceless Hadil is proof this was a savage racist hate crime. The mysterious ‘knife’ that only zionist murderers are able to see makes more appearances than Marian apparitions.

      Zionist justice is a similar delusional phenomenon.

      Reply to Comment
    4. Yeah, Right

      Notice that the photo of the knife shows it lying next to the very same white bucket that was…… next to the soldier on the right of the screen during that confrontation?

      Which meant that the knife was at *his* feet, and therefore could never have been anywhere near within arms-reach of Hadeel al-Hashlamon.

      And if you want to claim that, well, heck, that just means that the IDF moved the knife before taking that photo then….. poof! …. there goes your “evidence”.

      Indisputably so, because if you are willing to accept that the knife was put there before the photo was taken then you must also accept that the soldiers could have got that knife from *anywhere*.

      Heck, for all we know that soldier was on KP duty peeling potatoes, and that’s why a knife was lying on the ground at his feet when he leapt up and confronted that girl

      Reply to Comment
      • BigCat

        When you carry a knife and set out to attack and kill soldiers, don’t be surprised if the soldiers shoot you dead first. And if you are shot dead, don’t come back crying ‘ooh, the soldiers did not do everything they could have done to stop me from killing them before they killed me’. That’s kind of stupid, isn’t it, little donkey-head?!

        Reply to Comment
      • BigCat

        That’s complete gibberish.

        When you carry a knife and set out to attack and kill soldiers, don’t be surprised if the soldiers shoot you dead first. And if you are shot dead, don’t come back crying ‘oh, the soldiers did not do everything they could have done to stop me from killing them before they killed me’. That’s kind of stupid, isn’t it, donkey-head?!

        Reply to Comment
        • Yeah, Right

          BC: “That’s complete gibberish.”

          Indeed true, so when are you planning on stopping?

          BC: “When you carry a knife and set out to attack and kill soldiers, don’t be surprised if the soldiers shoot you dead first.”

          Look at the photos, Big Cat.

          Notice that the knife is photographed lying at the base of a pillar.

          That pillar is the same one that you can see next to the **soldiers** throughout that confrontation, it is not anywhere near where that girl was standing.

          It is therefore impossible for her to have dropped that knife in that spot AT ANY TIME DURING THAT CONFRONTATION.

          Absolutely impossible. Can’t be done. Totally impossible.

          But there is someone who could have dropped that knife near that pillar i.e. those IDF soldier could have done it, precisely because they were standing next to that pillar even though she was not.

          Nobody else could have done it, but they could have.

          Look at the photos, dude, and you’ll see that I am right.

          Reply to Comment
          • BigCat

            Yet another incoherent gibberish from this donkey-head called “yeahright”.

            “Look at the photos, dude, and you’ll see that I am right”.

            No, you are delusional. A fool! YOU don’t even know where that barbaric chick was standing when she was shot; the caliber of the bullet she was shot with; the angles she was shot from; her movements when she was being shot at; When and How she fell to the ground; if she fell on the ground motionless the moment the first bullet hit her; How and at What moment her knife and other items fell off her hand and ended up where they did, etc. And yet YOU wallow in your foolish conjectures, confuse your foolish conjectures with reality and are too delusional to answer hard questions and separate your conjectures from reality, while congratulating YOURSELF and patting YOURSELF on the back declaring “I am right” thereby exposing your insecurity! How pathetic. What an insecure buffoon!

            Answer the questions and rule-out all other possibilities by way of logical exclusions BEFORE talking about the “totally impossible” – if you have the brain-power to do that.

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            Big Cat: “YOU don’t even know where that barbaric chick was standing when she was shot;”

            So sorry but, yes, we do know that for a fact.

            We know that because of the video that is on the Daily Mail web site i.e. the video where we see the IDF soldier motioning the cameraman over to point out the knife that is lying on the ground.

            As the cameraman moves to video the knife you can see Hadeel al-Hashlamon’s corpse still lying where she was shot.

            The pillar where the knife was lying is at least three metres away from her body, and there is – very clearly and distinctly – a stout metal gate between her and that pillar (not to mention between her and the IDF soldiers that shot her)

            You can ***see*** it, Big Cat, and when you do you can see is that it is completely and utterly impossible for her to have dropped that knife at the foot of that pillar.

            She couldn’t have done it. The IDF soldier could have, but she couldn’t have.

            Go over to the Daily Mail’s web site, dude, and look for yourself.

            The video is half-way down the article, all you need to do is to look at it and you’ll see that I am right and you, so sorry, are deluding yourself.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            I wonder if Grosskatze walks around and hisses and spits and snarls rudely and incoherently at everybody who disagrees with him. “No!, you are delusional! A fool! An insecure buffoon! You don’t even know…” said to the cashier in the checkout line, the colleague at work…. More likely he is obsequious to those he perceives above him, abusive to those he regards as below him, and a complete a–hole online whenever he feels like it. I have to say that I’ve never ever met a secure person who acts like she or he does. Ever.

            Reply to Comment
          • BigCat

            Ben, your idiotic ramblings are not impressive – they never are and never answer any question raised.

            Try again!

            Start by answering the questions raised in my post and help out your fellow deluded friend called “yeahright”. I will take both of you on any time, any day, anywhere and destroy ya with your own delusions and foolishness.

            You might want to respond as “MuslimJew”, “AverageAmerican”, ViktorArajs”, “Bryan”, “Brian”, “RichardFlantz”, etc. That might help. Just saying…….

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            Big Cat: “Start by answering the questions raised in my post and help out your fellow deluded friend called “yeahright”.”

            The answer to all of your “raised questions” can be found by looking at a video that has been posted on the Daily Mail’s web site here:
            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3245438/Dramatic-moment-Israeli-soldier-points-rifle-veiled-teenage-Palestinian-student-shot-dead-moments-later-attempting-stab-West-Bank-checkpoint-guard.html

            That video shows her corpse – after she had been shot but before she had been dragged out like a sack – and it also shows the IDF soldier who shot her motioning a cameraman to video a knife lying at the base of a pillar.

            You only need to look at that video to know that:
            a) She was standing behind that metal gate when she was shot dead, and
            b) the knife is lying at the base of the pillar that was next to the soldier who shot her, it is not lying near any pillar that was ever anywhere near the girl.

            QED: she was shot while standing behind that metal gate, and the IDF soldier who shot her then dropped a knife at his feet before motioning the cameraman over to video that “evidence”.

            That’s the only possible explanation for the position of that knife, because the video proves very conclusively that it is not possible to drop a knife next to that pillar while standing behind that metal gate.

            Quite impossible.

            Stop trying to spin nonsense, Big Cat. All the evidence you need is already available to you. You. Just. Need. To. Go. Look. At. It.

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            Ben, Big Cat is an ignorant fool who refuses to do his due-diligence.

            He is, for one thing, completely unaware that there is a series of photos and a video on the Daily Mail website that completely refutes everything he has said.

            It’s here:
            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3245438/Dramatic-moment-Israeli-soldier-points-rifle-veiled-teenage-Palestinian-student-shot-dead-moments-later-attempting-stab-West-Bank-checkpoint-guard.html

            The video is halfway down the article, and it shows the IDF soldier motioning a cameraman to video a knife lying on the ground.

            That video shows where the knife is lying at the base of a pillar, and it also shows Hadeel al-Hashlamon’s corpse still lying on the ground where she had been shot i.e. behind that stout metal gate.

            Have a look at it, and you’ll see that it is completely and utterly impossible for her to have dropped that knife in that spot **after** she had moved behind that metal gate.

            Quite impossible.

            Which meant that the only way she could have dropped a knife there is if she had done so **before** she moved behind that metal grate.

            But go back to that Daily Mail web site again, and look at the first photo on that page.

            That first photo shows Hadeel al-Hashlamon **already** behind that metal gate, and it also shows the base of that pillar.

            And….. there is no knife lying on the ground at the base of that pillar.

            This needs to be stressed:
            A) That photo proves that she didn’t drop that knife there **before** retreating behind that gate, and
            B) That video proves that she couldn’t have dropped a knife there **after** moving behind that gate

            QED: That was not her knife. One of the IDF soldiers dropped it there after they had shot her.

            Reply to Comment
          • BigCat

            You are unable to answer any of the questions raised, donkey-head, despite your numerous series of voluminous gibberish above. And neither the clip nor any of the photos support any of your idiotic conjectures.

            Btw
            When cops kill a thug, first thing is to move the thug’s weapons away from the thug’s body (and in the United States handcuff the thug’s dead body) to a) make sure that the thug is no longer a threat, b) secure the chain of custody, c) preserve evidence, d) administer first aid, etc. Where the weapon of the thug was photographed is where it was photographed, no more and no less. How the weapon got to where it was photographed (and there are DIFFERENT pictures of the same knife in this case!) is what YOU don’t know, nor do you have any verifiable answers to any of my other questions I raised earlier, you donkey-brain!

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            “And neither the clip nor any of the photos support any of your idiotic conjectures.”

            One more time, because the truth never gets old.

            The video clearly shows that:
            a) The knife is lying next to where the IDF soldier was standing throughout that confrontation
            b) The body of the victim is lying behind the metal gate that she retreated behind during that confrontation.

            QED: she could not possibly have dropped that knife in that location at any time between
            (1) retreating behind that gate and
            (2) getting shot dead whilst standing behind that gate.

            That is absolutely, completely impossible and I’ll note – yet again – that you make not the slightest attempt to show otherwise.

            Sooooooooo, the only way she could have dropped the knife in that location is if SHE HAD HAVE DONE SO prior to retreating behind that metal gate.

            Again, that is axiomatic i.e. if she couldn’t have dropped that knife in that spot **after** having retreated behind that metal gate then she must have done so **before** retreating behind that metal gate.

            With me so far, Big Cat?

            But there is a problem with that theory i.e. there is a photo on the Daily Mail’s web site that shows that bit o’ ground **after** she had already retreated behind that gate, and…… there was no knife lying on the ground.

            Which leaves you up s**t creek without a paddle, because that means that only way she could have dropped that knife there is if:
            a) she retreated behind that metal gate, then
            b) leapt that metal gate and run over to the IDF soldier, then
            c) dropped the knife at his feet, then
            d) jumped back behind that gate again, then
            e) got herself shot by that IDF soldier.

            Which is quite impossible.

            She very clearly retreated behind that metal gate, and that’s where she was standing when she was shot stone-cold-dead.

            Now, you can keep denying that as long and as hard as you like, Big Cat.

            Be my guest, but all you are doing is sticking your head where the sun don’t shine.

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            “When cops kill a thug, first thing is to move the thug’s weapons away from the thug’s body ”

            Oh, please, are you for real?

            You have just admitted that the IDF soldier put that knife there.

            Well, heck, there goes the idea that the knife is “evidence” of anything.

            That is axiomatic, precisely because once you accept the notion that the IDF soldier PUT THAT KNIFE THERE then you have to accept the notion that he COULD HAVE PRODUCED THAT KNIFE FROM ANYWHERE.

            As in: that wasn’t her knife, it was his knife.

            Now, please, show me even the slightest evidence to the contrary……

            Reply to Comment
          • BigCat

            “When cops kill a thug, first thing is to move the thug’s weapons away from the thug’s body”. Oh, please, are you for real? You have just admitted that the IDF soldier put that knife there.”

            And apparently that – in your foolish mind – means that “that was not her knife”? And apparently your donkey-mind believes that any sane person would FIRST administer first aid to a thug with a knife in her hand or vicinity, instead of moving the knife away to make sure that the thug ain’t a threat anymore to anyone’s life and to preserve the evidence, etc? And apparently, if the knife was removed from the shot thug in “point A’ and photographed in “point B’, that must mean that “the knife is not the thugs knife!”, because ya know, the incident took place in “point A”, while the weapon was photographed in “point B”? You are the ultimate donkey-head, are you not?

            Btw

            For obvious reason you did not provide my complete quote, apparently because you see your idiotic conjectures (one of which is: “that was not her knife”) crumbling, you little donkey-head.

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            “How the weapon got to where it was photographed (and there are DIFFERENT pictures of the same knife in this case!) ”

            That statement is proof again – if any is needed – that Big Cat didn’t watch the video that I keep pointing him to.

            If he had then he would have seen that the first part of the video shows the body lying where it had been shot – with nary an IDF soldier attending to it. The second part of the video shows the body being dragged out from under the metal gate.

            So it is that latter part of the video that is showing Big Cat’s Israeli Standard Operating Procedure i.e. the bit that would have the IDF, inter alia, “secure the chain of custody” and “preserve evidence” while they “administer first aid”.

            Because, in Big Cat World you “preserve evidence” by, err, moving it.

            Not only that, but in Big Cat World you “secure the chain of custody” by, ummmm, taking the evidence that was lying over *there* and moving it over *here* and then – and only then – recording it as it lies in its all-new location.

            Bad enough, I suppose, but made much worse by a simple fact: the knife is already shown lying in its “new” location in the first part of the video.

            I hope I’m not straining Big Cat’s Brain by pointing out the obvious i.e. the first part of a video sorta’, you know, comes first.

            Which means that we see the knife in its final resting place *before* the IDF ever gets around to its oh-so-professional Standard Operating Procedure of “securing” the body (and therefore “preserve the evidence”, and “secure the chain of custody”, yadda yadda yadda) by dragging it out from under that metal gate as if it were a sack of potatoes.

            Which means that, chronologically-speaking, Big Cat’s theory is toast.

            Dude, LOOK at the video.

            Note where the knife is. Note where the body is. Note the complete absence of ANY Israeli activity ANYWHERE near that body even though that knife is already in that location.

            You are talking bulls**t and, what’s more, you must know that you are talking bulls**t.

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            “How the weapon got to where it was photographed (and there are DIFFERENT pictures of the same knife in this case!) is what YOU don’t know,”

            Hahahahahah! That’s actually the one thing that you and I both agree on.

            Dude, we **both** acknowledge that it got there because that IDF soldier put it there.

            Dude, you just admitted exactly that in that post.

            So there is no disagreement between you and I on this question:
            Q: How did that knife get there?
            A: The IDF soldier who shot that girl put it there.

            Where we disagree is on a completely different question:
            Q: Where did he produce that knife from?

            You insist that he got took possession of that knife by taking it from the body of that girl, all the better to “secure” and “preserve” the “chain of custody” of that “evidence”.

            I insist that he could not have done so, so he must have had that knife in his possession all along.

            I am right, and I can prove it.

            Look at the video again: you’ll see that the IDF doesn’t “secure” the body until the SECOND part of that video i.e. when they drag that body out from under the metal gate that separated the girl from the IDF soldiers who shot her dead.

            But we already see that knife lying on the ground in the FIRST part of that video i.e. the knife can already be seen on the ground before the IDF dragged that body out from under the metal gate in order to “secure” both the body and whatever evidence may be contained on it.

            QED: Big Cat’s theory must be wrong.

            Reply to Comment
          • BigCat

            You are always full of rambling gibberish and never make sense.

            Your core claim: “that was not her knife” is as baseless and as idiotic a claim as it gets. That’s all I need to- and did expose. Deal with it!

            Btw

            The 31-seconds! video clip shows only some soldiers dragged the thug’s body at some point after she was shot and for reasons unknown to you. The video does NOT show a) when that thug arrived at the checkpoint; b) when the soldiers started shouting at the thug to stop; c) when the first round of WARNING shots were fired on the ground to get her to stop; d) when the second round of WARNING shots were fired towards her legs to get her to stop and e) definitely NOT when the last round of shots were fired to her upper body to stop her and f) what happened immediately thereafter, who did what, when and why! YOU don’t know any of those things, but apparently your donkey-mind is all too ready to confuse your foolish conjectures with reality.

            Are we going to see the whole video clip? Do you want to see the whole unedited, un-altered video clip or are you satisfied with the 31-second snippet just so you can continue to wallow in your foolish conjectures?

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            “Are we going to see the whole video clip? ”

            Hahahahahah!

            Dude, don’t ask me – ask the IDF.

            After all, It Is Their Video, it isn’t my video.

            It’s, what, five days now, and apparently the IDF media unit still doesn’t know how to upload the full video onto social media.

            Maybe they should ask you for help. After all, you can’t be that far away…..

            Or maybe, juuuuuuust maybe, they don’t want to release it.

            Reply to Comment
          • BigCat

            “Are we going to see the whole video clip? ” Hahahahahah! Dude, don’t ask me – ask the IDF. After all, It Is Their Video, it isn’t my video.”

            1) The anti-Israel link you posted is NOT from the IDF;
            2) The 31-second video clip you posted is NOT from the IDF;

            You are quite a very odd man!

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            “2) The 31-second video clip you posted is NOT from the IDF;”

            Are you for real?

            That 30second clip shows an IDF soldier motioning the cameraman to follow him and film the knife lying on the ground.

            That cameraman was also allowed to stand behind those two IDF soldiers and film as they dragged the corpse out from under that metal grate like she was a sack of potatoes.

            WHO ON EARTH DO YOU THINK WAS HOLDING THAT CAMERA?

            If you give any other answer than “Oh, I get it now. It was another IDF soldier who was holding that video camera” then, so very sorry, you are worse than a dimwit.

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            “Your core claim: “that was not her knife” is as baseless and as idiotic a claim as it gets”

            Dude, I’ve already shown you that she could not have put that knife there, and you have already agreed with me on that point.

            Dude, you’ve already argued that it was the IDF soldier who put that knife there, and I’ve already agreed with you on that point.

            We both agree on that i.e. the knife is where it is because the IDF soldier put it there.

            Now, this is axiomatic: that IDF soldier had to have got that knife from ***somewhere***, and I’ve now lost count of how many times I’ve pointed out that the IDF didn’t “secure” that body until after the IDF soldier had already pointed to the knife lying on the ground.

            QED: The knife that he put there could not have been retrieved from that girl’s body.

            Which doesn’t leave all that many alternative sources for that knife, does it?

            Reply to Comment
          • BigCat

            “IDF soldier had to have got that knife from ***somewhere***, and I’ve now lost count of how many times I’ve pointed out that the IDF didn’t “secure” that body until after the IDF soldier had already pointed to the knife lying on the ground. QED: The knife that he put there could not have been retrieved from that girl’s body.”

            Your core claim STILL REMAINS as baseless and as idiotic a claim as it gets!

            You can’t get around it.

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            “2) The 31-second video clip you posted is NOT from the IDF;”

            Are you for real?

            That 30second clip shows an IDF soldier motioning the cameraman to follow him and film the knife lying on the ground.

            That cameraman was also allowed to stand behind those two IDF soldiers and film as they dragged the corpse out from under that metal grate like she was a sack of potatoes.

            WHO ON EARTH DO YOU THINK WAS HOLDING THAT CAMERA?

            If you give any other answer than “Oh, I get it now. It was another IDF soldier who was holding that video camera” then, so very sorry, you are worse than a dimwit.

            Reply to Comment
          • BigCat

            You are indeed a very odd man. Your 31-second video clip is NOT from the IDF – as you foolish claimed. Now are trying to modify that foolish claim in order to ramble your way out of trouble with your usyal gibberish.

            Btw

            +972 is still calling on the Idf to realease its video. You can read all about it here: http://972mag.com/the-idf-must-come-clean-about-the-hebron-shooting/112113/

            IDF-video, if any exists, has not been released.

            Always THINK before going off on a rant, donkey-head!

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            “Your 31-second video clip is NOT from the IDF – as you foolish claimed.”

            !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            You really are that stupid, aren’t you.

            That camera was being wielded by another IDF soldier; you can tell that by the demeanour of the IDF soldiers who were being videoed.

            If you believe otherwise then you are, indeed, As Stupid As.

            Reply to Comment
          • BigCat

            I see, “DEMEANOUR” is YOUR evidence!

            First YOU read the “demeanour” of the persons being videoed and then “you can tell” who is “wielding the camera”?! Oh dear…

            Folks, ya can’t make this stuff up.

            What a delusional moron!

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            “First YOU read the “demeanour” of the persons being videoed and then “you can tell” who is “wielding the camera”?! Oh dear…”

            Oh, please, spare me the thoroughly-misplaced sarcasm.

            Go and look at the video again.

            Notice how unconcerned all those IDF soldiers are to turn their backs on that cameraman.

            Notice how that cameraman is not only allowed to loiter around immediately after the girl is shot, but is also allowed to loiter there at least until those three IDF soldiers don their blue gloves and drag the body around like a sack of potatoes.

            You can see that – all you need to do is to open your eyes – and yet you continue to claim that you don’t have a clue who is holding that camera!

            Honestly, are you really that dumb, or are you deliberately acting that way?

            Sunshine, that camera is being held by an IDF soldier.

            Nobody else – but nobody – would have been allowed to stand there and record that scene.

            N.o.b.o.d.y.

            Reply to Comment
          • BigCat

            Your evidence was-, is- and remains: “DEMEANOUR”!

            The rest is long gibberish mumbo jumbo.

            ‘nuff said.

            Reply to Comment
          • BigCat

            BTW

            “Notice how that cameraman is not only allowed to loiter around IMMEDIATELY after the girl is shot……”, YOU claim?!

            That’s another baseless lie – with emphasis on the word “immediately” – you smuggled in just TODAY hoping that I will not notice?! You really are that desperate and very dishonest, donkey-head? Hilarious!

            In any case, I am glad to have forced you to realize THE LARGE HOLE in your foolish claims, i.e. the HUGE GAP between the shooting and the moment you 31-second video clip started rolling. I am very satisfied that you finally accept it as evidenced by the fraud you tried to commit.

            Gotcha, donkey-head!

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            BigCat: “That’s another baseless lie – with emphasis on the word “immediately” – you smuggled in just TODAY hoping that I will not notice?! ”

            *sigh*

            Go back and look at the video again: you’ll not only see the IDF soldier calling the cameraman over to video the knife lying on the ground, but you ALSO see Hadeel al-Hashlamon’s body lying on the ground behind that metal gate.

            That’s all in one continuous take.

            So THAT part of the video was taken immediately after she was shot, precisely because we can ***see*** that the IDF has not yet “secured the body”.

            And (have I mentioned this before?) you have already insisted that the very first thing that law-enforcement does after shooting a person is….. to “secure” them.

            BigCat: “the HUGE GAP between the shooting and the moment you 31-second video clip started rolling.”

            *sigh*

            See. Above.

            The first part of that video is a continuous take. And in that continuous take we can see the body, and it is quite “unsecured”.

            And since ***YOU*** insist that the very first thing any law-enforcement would do following a shooting is to “secure” the body then we can be certain that this segment was filmed immediately after the shooting.

            Or are there two BigCat’s posting here?

            One who insists that “securing” is the very first thing that IDF soldiers would do, and another who appears to be monumentally unconcerned that no “securing” has taken place even while that IDF soldier is waving cameramen here, there, and everywhere.

            What a horrible thought: two BigCats, and both stupid.

            Reply to Comment
          • BigCat

            1. “Go back and look at the video again:”

            You have said this over and over again. The video is what it is and watching it a millions times will not change its content and make anyone see what it does NOT contain.

            2. “you’ll not only see the IDF soldier calling the cameraman”

            No, no one “sees the IDF soldier calling on the cameraman”. You are a desparate, hallucinating liar.

            3. “video the knife lying on the ground, but you ALSO see Hadeel al-Hashlamon’s body lying on the ground behind that metal gate”.

            Indeed, the knife was videoed lying on the ground. The body of the thug was lying behind the metal barrier.

            4. “So THAT part of the video was taken immediately after she was shot, precisely because we can ***see*** that the IDF has not yet “secured the body”.

            No, that’s idiotic conjecture. “THAT part of the video was NOT taken “immediately after” the thug was shot. That the IDF has not “secured” (whatever that means) does not mean a thing, moron. The knife was removed from the thug’s body and left there until the Arab-ambulance arrived to take it away, at which point soldiers returned to the body and pulled it across the metal barrier!

            5. “And (have I mentioned this before?) you have already insisted that the very first thing that law-enforcement does after shooting a person is….. to “secure” them.”

            You are very confused. I did NOT say that. I said “secure the chain of custody”, moron. Apparently, YOU don’t even know what “chain of custody” means, huh? Well, read about it here, donkey-brain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_of_custody

            Reply to Comment
          • BigCat

            Here is how confused and messed-up you are:

            1. Yeahrigh1

            “QED. that was not her knife”

            2. Yeahright2

            “QED: The knife that he put there could not have been retrieved from that girl’s body”

            3. Yeahright3

            “How the weapon got to where it was photographed (and there are DIFFERENT pictures of the same knife in this case!) is what YOU don’t know,” Hahahahahah! That’s actually the one thing that you and I both agree on.

            4. Yeahright4

            “QED: That was not her knife. One of the IDF soldiers dropped it there after they had shot her.”

            Indeed, the portrait of a confused donkey running around in circles! Apparently YOU don’t even know what YOU believe. When you are caught in one stupidity, you ramble and modify your idiotic claims to try to wiggle out of trouble.

            In any case, your evidence for your idiotic claims are based on a 31-second video clip that contains only a few seconds of the actual occurrence, right, donkey-head?

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            “Here is how confused and messed-up you are:”

            I’m willing to explain this as many times as is required.

            There is a knife that is shown lying on the ground, and so there has to be an explanation for how it got there.

            Q: Could Hadeel al-Hashlamon have dropped it there during the initial confrontation?
            A: No, that’s demonstrably impossible. The Daily Mail has a photo showing her retreating behind that metal gate at the urging of Fawaz Abu Aisheh, and in that photo we can see that there is no knife lying on the ground.

            Q: Could Hashlamon have dropped it there after moving behind that metal gate?
            A: No, that’s demonstrably impossible. By that stage she was at least 3m away from that spot, and (did I mention this already?) there is a stout metal gate between her and that spot. And, of course, all the photos of the dead body shows that she never left her position behind that gate.

            Q: Could the IDF soldier have removed the knife from her body and put it there, all the better to “secure” the “evidence” and its “chain of custody”.
            A: No, that’s demonstrably impossible. The video at the Daily Mail clearly shows the IDF soldier pointing to the knife, and we can also see the corpse, and at *that* point in time the corpse is shown to be lying behind that metal gate and quite “unsecured”. Not only that, but the video also shows the moment when the IDF did finally get around to “securing” the body, and they do so by dragging her out from under that metal gate.

            So it isn’t possible to claim that the knife that is shown in that video came from the person (or the dead body) of Hadeel al-Hashlamon. Quite impossible.

            And as Sherlock Holmes said: once you eliminate the impossible then what remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

            And this is the only explanation that *isn’t* impossible: the IDF soldier had just carried out an extrajudicial execution, and so he pulled a knife out of his backpack and dropped it there as “evidence” to justify that killing.

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            “Your core claim STILL REMAINS as baseless and as idiotic a claim as it gets!”

            No, my “core claim” remains quite unchallenged, and looks stronger every time you fail to even attempt to refute it.

            One. More. Time.

            You already accept that the knife is lying where it was because that IDF soldier put it there. You ALREADY ACCEPT THAT.

            Heck, you have insisted that this is true.

            But your insistence that the reason he put it there is because he retrieved it from the dead body of that girl in order to “secure” the “evidence” and its “chain of custody” is demonstrably false.

            We know that, because the video clearly shows the knife lying on the ground **before** the IDF soldiers drag the body out from under that stout metal gate in order to “secure” both the body and anything that might be on that body.

            It. Is. Therefore. Not. Possible. For. The. IDF. Soldier. To. Have. Procured. The. Knife. In. The. Way. That. You. Have. Argued.

            Now, this has got to be the fifth or sixth time that I have pointed that out to you, and for the nth time you will – no doubt about it – post a reply wherein you refuse to even address that point i.e. the knife is shown lying on the ground **before** the body is shown being “secured” by the IDF.

            The knife therefore could not have been retrieved from that girl.

            That. Is. Simply. Not. Possible.

            It has to have come from somewhere else, and logic insists that this “somewhere else” was the backpack of that IDF soldier.

            Reply to Comment
          • BigCat

            Yet another repetition of the same old loooong mumbo jumbo from this donkey-head called “yeahright”. Here, let me simply it again for you. Here ya go:

            1. When cops kill a thug, first thing is to move the thug’s weapons away from the thug’s body (and in the United States handcuff the thug’s dead body) to a) make sure that the thug is no longer a threat, b) secure the chain of custody, c) preserve evidence, d) administer first aid, etc. Where the weapon of the thug was photographed is where it was photographed, no more and no less.

            2. The 31-seconds! video clip shows only some soldiers dragged the thug’s body at some point after she was shot and for reasons unknown to you. The video does NOT show (a) when that thug arrived at the checkpoint; (b) when the soldiers started shouting at the thug to stop; (c) when the first round of WARNING shots were fired on the ground to get her to stop; (d) when the second round of WARNING shots were fired towards her legs to get her to stop and (e) definitely NOT when the last round of shots were fired to her upper body to stop her and (f) what happened immediately thereafter, who did what, when and why! YOU don’t know any of these things, and apparently your donkey-brain is not able to process that, but all too ready to confuse your foolish conjectures with reality.

            Got that now, donkey-head?!

            Reply to Comment
    5. Dutch

      “Why were multiple M16 rounds necessary to stop a young knife-wielding woman meters away behind a metal barrier?”

      Suspicions of a suicide vest?

      Reply to Comment
      • Yeah, Right

        “Suspicions of a suicide vest?”

        Have you even looked at the photos, Dutchie?

        If she had been wearing a suicide vest then those two soldiers would have been dead the moment they started shouting at her.

        And if those soldiers even half-way knew what they were doing then they should have been just as aware of the corollary: they hadn’t already been blown to Kingdom Come, ergo, She Wasn’t Wearing A Suicide Vest.

        Not to mention that pumping four bullets INTO the chest of someone who is wearing high explosives Right Where Those Bullets Are Going doesn’t exactly seem to me to be a sound tactical move……

        Reply to Comment
        • BigCat

          “If she had been wearing a suicide vest then those two soldiers would have been dead the moment they started shouting at her”.

          Oh dear….., you mean like here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ICVBLrDMk4 ? Failed female suicide bomber Wafa al Biss! That’s a poor woman Israel accepted to give free medical treatment for her burns and disabilities and granted her permission to enter Israel for treatment. But she abused that kindness rarely seen anywhere in the world and came to kill Jews: the doctors and the nurses that were to provide her medical treatment along with other patients and sick children. That is how barbaric and hateful you Muslim-Arabs are.

          Thank goodness that the thug in this case had only knife as far as we know and that the soldiers acted timely and killed her.

          Good shoot!

          Btw

          Muslim female jihadis do not carry their bombs on their chests, but around their butts and genitals as the video shows. Facts are facts. Deal with it.

          Reply to Comment
        • Ben

          YR makes a strong case about the knife. But look. For whatever reason the soldiers panicked. Panicked at a small woman with a knife standing a few meters away while themselves armed with two high powered automatic assault weapons? And in their panic felt they had to pump ten bullets into her chest? Instead of one into her legs?
          If that’s the case it’s a pathetic case of under trained, overly emotional soldier boys overreacting. Throw in a soldiering not policing mentality and skill set, callousness and overlord mentality and Israelis’ disdain for learning Arabic into the mix and there you go. But perhaps their panic *was* driven by the momentary fear she carried a bomb on her body or in her purse and was about to detonate it. Perhaps they thought while panicking that the purse was wired to go off when she opened it and they had only split seconds to disable her from doing that. (Or that an accomplice would detonate it, but then shooting her dead and shooting at explosives makes no sense in any case and if they at all thought she was wired for explosives they would have backed off even after she was dead and called in the bomb squad instead of dragging her without even checking for explosives. A dead body with a live bomb on it, perhaps on a timer would still be a threat. The questions just multiply.)
          Her being covered from head to toe in a black shrouding garment and particularly their inability to gain clues as to her attitude and intentions from her facial expressions, a rich source of immediate data to a reflexively reacting human mind, because her face was totally masked, all that led to this tragedy. Her face being veiled contributed. They could not read her. (Again, you need also to throw in callousness and trigger happiness and an overlord mentality and an Arab life is cheap mentality and a why bother learning Arabic mentality (you think Roman soldiers bothered to learn Hebrew or Aramaic?–but give the Romans a break, 24% of the citizens of Rome did not speak Hebrew–the Israelis have no such excuse) into the combustible mix of what went down.) But all this loose speculating and playing amateur detective that I am doing here leads to the main point. All the detective reasoning in the world about just what chain of events and emotions and motives and deficiencies in the actors occurred is a distraction from the main point: As long as Israel continues to belligerently occupy and cruelly suppress another people in this land, and continues to think might makes right and continues to only understand the language of force, and continues to behave as Lords of the Land, then Israel will continue to put its soldiers and their Palestinian subjects into impossible positions and these kinds of tragedies at these kinds of friction points are unavoidable. Get out of the territories, Israel.

          Reply to Comment
          • BigCat

            1. Ben

            “YR makes a strong case about the knife. But look. For whatever reason the soldiers panicked. Panicked at a small woman with a knife standing a few meters away….”

            2. Yeahright:

            “That was not her knife”!

            Indeed, these two donkeys “yeahright” and “Ben” continue to run around in circles confused and rambling looong incoherent mumbo jumbos.

            Btw, Ben

            When you make a decision to kill soldiers in order to go to paradise and have your 72 virgins, make plans as to how and when to kill soldiers, wake up in the morning and arm yourself with a knife and set out to kill soldiers, do not be surprised if those you want to kill kill you first. And if those you want to kill kill you first, do not come back here crying: “ooh, I am a poor little small woman and those I wanted to kill did not do everything they could have done to stop me from killing them, e.g. shoot at my legs etc. and take me alive before they killed me”. That argument is not just stupid, but shows yet again that you are not just a racist hypocrite, but inside-out a complete moron, ViktorArajs…..eh…Ben

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            BEN: “But perhaps their panic *was* driven by the momentary fear she carried a bomb on her body or in her purse and was about to detonate it”

            Really Benny? Ya think so? What would give them such a crazy idea? Could it be because such a thing happened many times before?

            Don’t answer that, Benny. Your opinion means nothing to me you are an ill informed propagandist with a malicious mindset. Oops, did I inadvertantly used the word “mind” in relationto Benny? LOL, my bad…

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            Remind me again, Gustav: where in the IDF military manual does it say that the correct way to respond to a person wearing a suicide vest is to pump four high velocity bullets into their chest.

            Rather strikes me as a stupid way to “neutralize” the chances of it going “Boom!”, don’t’cha’think?

            As in: you’d only do that if you were certain that there was no high-explosive vest there…..

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “Rather strikes me as a stupid way to “neutralize” the chances of it going “Boom!”, don’t’cha’think?”

            Everything strikes you as stupid when you look with your biased jaundiced eye on what we do.

            But to answer your question. No it does not necessarily strike me as stupid. What strike me as stupid is to do nothing and to allow her to get even closer to me. Particularly if I shoot at the part of their body which does not have the suicide vest.

            The choice is to do nothing and be blown up. Or to shoot and at least to have a chance of surviving. Which choice would you take, brainiac?

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            “But to answer your question.”

            *chortle* This is going to be good….

            “No it does not necessarily strike me as stupid.”

            Shooting bullets into the middle of a package of high explosives doesn’t strike you as stupid?

            Man, is that stupid or what?

            “What strike me as stupid is to do nothing and to allow her to get even closer to me.”

            Hahahahahahah!

            The sequence of events is clear from the series of photos: she is on “their” side of that stout metal gate when the soldiers go all bug-eyed and start shouting at her, at which point she is motioned **behind** that stout metal gate by Fawaz Abu Aisheh.

            And, gosh!, she is still standing behind that stout metal gate when she is shot stone-cold dead.

            You can see that in the photos – it is quite indisputable – so what is all this nonsense about “allowing her to get even closer to me”?

            Dude, she had retreated **away** from the soldiers, and that’s where she was standing when they shot her. She definitely wasn’t “moving closer to them” when they opened fire, precisely because her body can be seen lying… on the other side of that stout metal gate.

            Honestly, you and Big Cat are utterly delusional.

            “Particularly if I shoot at the part of their body which does not have the suicide vest.”

            Dude, you don’t shoot at people wearing suicide vests, period.

            Doing so is the stupidest thing a soldier can do, because a suicide bomber is going to be rigged up with a dead man’s switch.

            You retreat, and once you are far enough away then you try to talk them out of that act. You either succeed (hurrah!) and nobody is hurt, or else you fail (boo hoo!), and which point the only person who is killed is the suicide bomber.

            But you don’t stand your ground 3m metres from someone who you believe is wearing a suicide vest, all the better to pump them full of lead.

            Stupidest. Tactic. In. The. Whole. Wide. World.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “Dude, you don’t shoot at people wearing suicide vests, period.”

            Really? So how many suicide bombers did you meet, oh great phubah?

            You retreat? Look at the picture. She is right next to the soldier. If she wears a vest, all she has to do is trigger it and he would go up in smoke together with her.

            So, I repeat, his best option is to attempt to neutralize her and hope for the best. If it works, great. If it doesn’t then he is no worse than he would be if he would just give up and let her dictate the events.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            BEN:”YR makes a strong case”

            Really? According to you? One could be impressed if you would not be a self professed flat earther when it comes to your opinions about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. But you are. So your biased beliefs carry no authority. Particularly since you have the tendency to assert things rather than use logic.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            He also makes a strong case about a high explosives vest and the soldiers’ behavior which suggests fear of a suicide vest was *not* a factor in what looks like their coldly executing her as she lay wounded.

            Reply to Comment
          • BigCat

            Both of you – ben and yeahright – are c ontradicting each other on “the knife” – as I pointed out above. YR said “That was not her knife”! You said that she was holding a knife in her hand!

            So, Ben, tell us this: what great point is YR making? Do you know that or are just being the usual cock-sucker you always are? You are also lick the asses of all +972pundits begging for acceptance. Are you really that emotionally lonely and deserted that you have to lick ass all the time, you psychotic ass-licker?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            The Ziobots are such classy people. A real credit to their cause. Gives you a real warm feeling doesn’t it about how they treat people they have power over? LoL.

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            “Both of you – ben and yeahright – are c ontradicting each other on “the knife” – as I pointed out above”

            Well, Big Whooooooooop-de-doooooooooooo.

            I’m not Ben.
            Ben is not me.

            He can come up with a different interpretation of how that knife got there, just as **you** have a different interpretation.

            So what? I am being perfectly consistent in **my** interpretation, precisely because all the evidence points to my interpretation being the correct one.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Typical GrossKatze dishonesty. So typical. So crude. So brazen. So petty. So indicative of gross impoverishment of thinking. So morally degenerate. So antisocial.

            “…a small woman with a knife…?”

            (Note the punctuation with question mark, conveying it is a question and a hypothetical. And followed by “If that’s the case…” Clear to any half-educated half-wit.)

            becomes….

            “You said that she was holding a knife in her hand!”

            We are going to have to amend Nietzsche’s famous title, “Menschliches, Allzumenschliches” to fit the creature:

            “Grosskatzliches, Allzugrosskatzliches.”

            Yes, we reiterate:

            The Ziobots are such classy people. A real credit to their cause. Gives you a real warm feeling doesn’t it about how they treat people they have power over? LoL.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Yep, Benny was there, he saw it all and Benny knows best.

            Or Benny is just a propagandist who takes every opportunity to assert things and besmear us.

            The answer is obvious. All one has to do is read Benny’s biased one eyed postings which pollute this magazine.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            YR and Benny: Lynch the bastard Israelis. Everything Israel does is always wrong…

            Then one looks at what happens in the rest of the world and we come across this…

            Since our YR claims to be Australian, I decided to search the net and see how such situations are handled in his country. And looky what I came across…

            http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-10/police-shoot-dead-knife-wielding-woman-at-hoxton-hungry-jacks/6082788

            “A woman armed with a knife has been shot dead by police officers after she lunged at them outside a fast food outlet in Sydney’s south-west.”

            Who knows what motivated these women? Suicide by police? Lunacy? The fact is that the reaction by both the Israeli and Australian authorities was the same.

            Now YR, what are you doing about what happened in your own home?

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            “Who knows what motivated these women?”

            Yeah, because a knife-wielding woman in Sydney will – obviously! – share the same motivation as someone who is living in an occupied territory under a decades-long belligerent occupation.

            “Suicide by police? Lunacy?”

            In the case that you pointed to the answer turned out to be, indeed, “lunacy”.

            “The fact is that the reaction by both the Israeli and Australian authorities was the same.”

            Noooooooo, actually, it wasn’t.

            The Police used capsicum spray to try and subdue the woman before firing one shot, which hit the 22-year-old woman in the chest.

            Unlike the IDF soldiers (note that they are soldiers, not police) made no other attempt to subdue Hadeel al-Hashlamon, and whose one and only tool of the trade in confronting Hadeel al-Hashlamon consisted of an assault rifle (note: assault rifle, not handgun).

            And, of course, the IDF soldiers fired five shots into her body, which turns out to be five times the number of bullets fired by those NSW police officers.

            And, of course, the NSW Police immediately surrounded the woman after the shot and commenced CPR, whereas the IDF soldiers dragged Hadeel al-Hashlamon’s body around like a sack of potatoes.

            And, of course, the NSW Police immediately opened an investigation staffed by the Homicide Squad and investigators from the South West Metropolitan Region, and all overseen by an independent authority.

            Not to mention that the NSW government opened a coronial enquiry.

            Neither of which will happen in this case.

            Compare. And. Contrast.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            GUSTAV:“Who knows what motivated these women?”

            YR:”Yeah, because a knife-wielding woman in Sydney will – obviously! – share the same motivation as someone who is living in an occupied territory under a decades-long belligerent occupation.”

            Yep, they could. They could both be suicidal loonies. You don’t know and I don’t know. But you pretend to know…

            GUSTAV:“Suicide by police? Lunacy?”

            YR:”In the case that you pointed to the answer turned out to be, indeed, “lunacy”.

            And in this case it didn’t? How do YOU know?

            GUSTAV:“The fact is that the reaction by both the Israeli and Australian authorities was the same.”

            YR:”Noooooooo, actually, it wasn’t.

            The Police used capsicum spray to try and subdue the woman before firing one shot, which hit the 22-year-old woman in the chest.”

            Yet both women are dead. And in Australia, women have not been known to be suicide bombers. Whereas in this part of the world, quite a few women are suicede bombers, so who would you expect to be more jumpy? The Australian police? Or Israeli soldiers?

            To be continued

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            “They could both be suicidal loonies.”

            A suicidal loony does not retreat behind a stout metal gate when motioned to do so by a bystander who is attempting to prevent her being gunned down.

            And, let’s be honest here, a suicidal loony does not then stand stock-still *having* retreated behind that stout metal gate.

            “You don’t know and I don’t know.”

            Yeah, I do know that, precisely because standing stock-still once hysterical soldiers start shouting and pointed assault rifles is not at all the behaviour of a suicidal loony. Nor is moving behind a stout metal gate when motioned to do so by a bystander who is attempting to defuse that “confrontation”. Nor, for that matter, is standing stock-still behind the stout metal gate that you have just retreated behind.

            Not one of those actions is the hallmark of “suicidal loonies”.

            “But you pretend to know”

            Yeah, that pesky little thing called “evidence” does tend to have that affect.

            Not that you know, since you show no inclination to let the evidence get in the way of your fairy-stories.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Post 2 of 2…

            YR:”Unlike the IDF soldiers (note that they are soldiers, not police) made no other attempt to subdue Hadeel al-Hashlamon, and whose one and only tool of the trade in confronting Hadeel al-Hashlamon consisted of an assault rifle (note: assault rifle, not handgun).”

            How do you know? But even if you would be right, have you ever been confronted by potential suicide bombers? You are saying she wan’t but 20/20 hindsight is easy. Let’s see how you’d react if your life would be on line? You’d probably crap in your pants, big mouth.

            YR:”And, of course, the IDF soldiers fired five shots into her body, which turns out to be five times the number of bullets fired by those NSW police officers.”

            Yet at the end of the day that poor Aussie lady was just as dead and she was on the same side as the police, unlike the Arab lady who is from a group who is hostile to us.

            YR:”And, of course, the NSW Police immediately surrounded the woman after the shot and commenced CPR, whereas the IDF soldiers dragged Hadeel al-Hashlamon’s body around like a sack of potatoes.”

            Yep, first they killed her then they performed CPR. Why don’t you get on your high horse and demand justice at home? I know, they are not Jewish so it isn’t as much fun to berate them.

            YR:”And, of course, the NSW Police immediately opened an investigation staffed by the Homicide Squad and investigators from the South West Metropolitan Region, and all overseen by an independent authority.”

            And what was the result of the investigation? Let me guess, the police blamed themselves? Yeah, Right…

            YR:”Not to mention that the NSW government opened a coronial enquiry.”

            Yep, admirable. Australians kill Australians and they want to avoid it from happening again.

            YR:”Neither of which will happen in this case.”

            You don’t know that but even if you are right. Show me the coronial enquiries which Palestinian Arabs conduct when one of their Baruch Goldsteins murders an Israeli? You know it doesn’t happen. Instead they hand out sweets to celebrate. And they demand that Israel should release child murdering terrorists in exchange for pretending to negotiate.

            YR:”Compare. And. Contrast.”

            I just did!

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            GUSTAV:“They could both be suicidal loonies.”

            YR:”A suicidal loony does not retreat behind a stout metal gate when motioned to do so by a bystander who is attempting to prevent her being gunned down.”

            And she did huh? Were you there? Or have you read that claim in one of the myriad of your favorite hate rags?

            YR:”And, let’s be honest here, a suicidal loony does not then stand stock-still *having* retreated behind that stout metal gate.”

            Did you say honest? Let’s face it, you are not here to be honest. You are here for a bit of Jew baiting. It’s a time honored tradition amongst some.

            GUSTAV:“You don’t know and I don’t know.”

            YR:”Yeah, I do know that, precisely …blah …blah… blah…”

            What a surprise, he “does know precisely”. Precisely mind you… I could have predicted that this ‘know it all’ little punk would make such a claim, LOL.

            YR:”Not one of those actions is the hallmark of “suicidal loonies”.

            No? Now he is a psychiatrist… or maybe a psychotic obsessive hater? Hey YR, why don’t you quibble with your own police force? Why are you so interested in the Middle East? Are you a migrant to Australia from the Middle East?

            Gustav:“But you pretend to know”

            YR:”Yeah, that pesky little thing called “evidence” does tend to have that affect.”

            Yea, that pesky little thing called concocted evidence, assertions, smear and propaganda motivated by your obsession with us. Hey you think we are bad? Have you looked at what’s happening in Syria lately? Iraq maybe? The plight of the refugees? Christian refugees who are persecuted and murdered on a daily basis in those places? Ya have no interest in that YR? Coz Arabs do dat?

            YR:”Not that you know, since you show no inclination to let the evidence get in the way of your fairy-stories.”

            You are partly right. I don’t know so I don’t assert things till I do know. I just question hateful obsessive idiots like you who jump to predetermined biased conclusions.

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            “And she did huh? Were you there?”

            *sigh*

            Why do I have the sinking feeling that Gustav hasn’t even glanced at the two photos at the top of this article, much less followed the links to the Daily Mail where there are many more photos and a video to boot?

            Obviously so, because you only need to glance at those two photos to see:
            a) In the first photo she is standing in front of that metal gate while the bystander is motioning her to get behind that gate, while
            b) in the second photo she is standing behind that gate.

            Apparently Gustav can’t see even that much….

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            “Yea, that pesky little thing called concocted evidence, assertions, smear and propaganda motivated by your obsession with us.”

            Time to note, yet again, that all of my “assertions” have been and continue to be based on the photographic and video evidence that is actually out there.

            By way of very marked contrast, Gustav’s argument are based entirely on his faith in the existence of exculpatory evidence, even though no such exculpatory evidence has *actually* been released by the IDF.

            Yet he has faith that such evidence exists because… well… because.

            So it appears that in Gustav-world we are supposed to accept this “logic”: if the evidence that *does* exist *doesn’t* support the IDF’s account then we must all withhold judgement, and we must continue to withhold all judgement until such time as the IDF finally does gets around to releasing the exculpatory evidence that it must (why?) have but which the IDF hasn’t yet (why not?) decided to make available.

            It’s a neat trick, because it contains within it an obvious loophole: the IDF simply needs to hang tight and refuse to release any evidence whatsoever, precisely because according to Gustav-logic this will require us to remain forever deaf, dumb, and mute.

            Nothing to see here, folks. Just move along… move along…

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            …aaaaannnnd?

            YR still pretends to be a super sleuth. The two photos don’t prove nothin’. Least of all that she didn’t hide a knife under her clothing.

            But I do agree with you YR to move along folks, nothin’ to see here except your over sized ego, active imagination and your eagerness to smear Israelis at every opportunity on trumped up evidence. So heed your own advice YR and move along.

            Reply to Comment
    6. Jason Kidd

      Ben: (Again, you need also to throw in callousness and trigger happiness and an overlord mentality and an Arab life is cheap mentality and a why bother learning Arabic mentality (you think Roman soldiers bothered to learn Hebrew or Aramaic?–but give the Romans a break, 24% of the citizens of Rome did not speak Hebrew–the Israelis have no such excuse) into the combustible mix of what went down.)

      WTF is this gibberish? I have seen mentally challenged adults make more reasoned arguments than this word salad. Full of weak emotion, short on logic.

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