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Shhhhhh, we’re annexing

A new position paper by human rights organization Yesh Din looks at steps being taken by the Israeli government toward the de facto annexation of the West Bank.

By Yesh Din, written by Yossi Gurvitz

Israeli settlers attempt to establish a new outpost in response to the killing of two settlers the night before, near the settlement of Itamar, West Bank, October 2, 2015. (photo: Yotam Ronen/Activestills.org)

Israeli settlers attempt to establish a new outpost in response to the killing of two settlers the night before, near the settlement of Itamar, West Bank, October 2, 2015. (photo: Yotam Ronen/Activestills.org)

Last week Yesh Din published its position paper, “From Occupation to Annexation,” which deals with the way the Israeli government is implementing the conclusions of the Levy Commission Report without any public debate or even an official government decision — a process which is dragging Israel into de facto annexation of the West Bank, without granting the annexed people their rights.

First, we must distinguish between annexation and occupation. International law recognizes the legitimacy of an occupation, i.e. a state in which one power occupies a territory where a local population lives. But the assumption of international law is that occupation is a temporary affair; the occupier is considered to be a trustee who maintains what he has conquered until the conflict is over. Furthermore, the occupier is not allowed to make long-term changes in the region. Annexation is a unilateral takeover by a state of a territory by use of force or threats of it, and is impermissible under international law — a result of lessons from the Second World War on which so much of international law is built.

The new position paper does not deal with the Levy Report itself (to which we dedicated a whole report of its own) but rather with its implementation. Nevertheless, we must say a word about the report itself: it is nothing less than a revolution in the how the State of Israel has come to regard the occupied Palestinian territories. According to the report, the state’s legal position is that the occupied Palestinian territories are not occupied, since they were promised to the Jewish people by the British Mandate.

The Israeli government never officially adopted the Levy Report. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu appointed Levy (former minister Silvan Shalom noted the prime minister knew precisely why he was appointing him) but never dared to officially adopt his document. Why? To begin with, the present situation of occupation is actually good for Israel. It confers partial legal legitimacy to its military presence (not its civilian presence) in the West Bank. If the West Bank is not occupied, then the situation looks suspiciously like annexation. And as we noted earlier, annexation is prohibited.

Secondly, no one in the world would accept the legitimacy of Israeli control that leaves Palestinians devoid of rights. Officially adopting the Levy Report would be a hasbara catastrophe; no one in the world would accept the Israeli claim that nearly 50 years of military control does not constitute occupation.

But even though the government never officially adopted the report, it effectively began implementing it. On the legal front, the Foreign Ministry published a document in late 2015 that adopts the spirit of the Levy Report. According to the document, Israel has a right to build settlements, based on the British Mandate charter. This claim became part of the Foreign Office Cadet Training Program and was distributed to every Israeli delegation in the world, accompanied by a directive saying this is the Israeli position and that it should be translated and published on the website of every delegation.

The Justice Ministry also adopted the spirit of the Levy Report and its position vis-à-vis the legality of illegal construction in the settlements and outposts, particularly when it relates to the possibility of future legalization.

At the same time, on the more practical (if long-term) side, the Justice Ministry began carrying out one of the report’s recommendations: it began creating a new court to deal exclusively with issues related to land in the West Bank. This court will only include Israeli judges, as it will likely be a military court. The meaning for a Palestinian who wants to protect his property will be clear: don’t waste your time. Palestinian trust in the Israeli military courts is already low and is in decline.

But the more immediate aspect of the Levy Report, which was also noted by Justice Minister Ayelet Shaked, is the retroactive legalization (in Hebrew, “kosherization” — turning something impure into something kosher) of the illegal outposts in the West Bank. Some 80 out of around 100 outposts are built, at least partially, on private Palestinian land. As such they are illegal intruders, and in addition most of the buildings have been served with demolition orders due to illegal construction. Until recent years the government did not bother to enforce its own orders, telling the courts that the buildings are in fact illegal and that they would be demolished at some future date, and according to its own preferences. This happened only in the relatively few cases in which an appeal was filed against the illegal construction. As for illegal construction that did not make it to the courts?  The government had no plan of doing anything about it.

The government has changed its position since the report was published: now it tells the courts, time and again, that those same outposts are intended for legalization. True, even in the past the government delayed the evacuation until the arrival of the messiah, but at least it stated its intent to evacuate them. Not any more.

In order to legalize the outposts, the Netanyahu government has taken two main steps. In July 2015, Netanyahu ordered the creation of a “re-organizing committee” — a governmental team whose goal is the purification of the impure through “re-organizing” the legal situation vis-à-vis land, thus granting a legal cover for the outposts. This team is supposed to finish its work in the coming weeks. Needless to say, changing the rules in order to create settlements in the West Bank is a violation of international law. But international law is for the gentiles — we have the Balfour Declaration.

The second tool used by the Netanyahu government is the “re-ordering law.” This law is supposed to force the Palestinian owners of land to accept compensation for giving up their legal rights to the land they own, so as to prevent the evacuation of outposts and illegal structures. The Netanyahu government believes in private property, unless the person in question is Palestinian. The “re-organizing” law is an attempt to turn the Levy Report into legislation. The bill, as presented by MK Yoav Kish, specifically names four settlements and outposts whose evacuation or partial evacuation was ordered by the High Court of Justice. Such a law, were it to pass, would lead to land confiscation not intended for pressing military needs — an act prohibited by international law. In addition, the law itself is a declaration by the Knesset that it has the right to pass legislation regarding the West Bank — a sign of annexation. It is an acceptance of the Levy Report’s position that the laws of occupation are invalid in the West Bank, and that the territory is under the sovereignty of the Knesset.

Beyond all these tricks, the purpose of which is to prevent the evacuation of Israeli land invaders, the government is busily working on enlarging the pool of state land, in a way that will permit the enlargement and legalization of outposts. This is done under the so-called “blue line team” – a team whose duty is to examine and fine-tune the boundaries of land that had previously been turned into “state land.” Between 2012 and 2015, state land in the West Bank grew by 63,771 dunams; state land is not allocated to the Palestinian communities in the occupied territory, as might be expected of an occupying force that obeys its legal obligations. Instead, most of it goes to the settlements and outposts. According to the data supplied by the government, the Civil Administration allocated only 7 percent of state land for Palestinian use.

And these are only a few of the examples presented in our position paper. When it comes to dispossessing Palestinians of their land, the Netanyahu government and its jurists are showing impressive creativity. The final result of all these processes is the creeping, de-facto annexation of large swaths of the West Bank. Beyond the fact that this is in direct contravention of international law, it is all happening without any public debate. After all, it’s taking place behind closed doors by committees whose work is anything but transparent, let alone open to public criticism. Most of the time we only hear of it after they have made their decision.

Contrary to what is often said, the Netanyahu government does have a policy in the West Bank. It simply prefers you don’t hear of it. So here it is.

Written by Yossi Gurvitz in his capacity as a blogger for Yesh Din, Volunteers for Human Rights. A version of this post was first published on Yesh Din’s blog.

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    COMMENTS

    1. Weiss

      The Foreign Minister err…. Satanyahoo is also personally spearheading the AntiBDS measures in Canada and the EU …

      More extreme desperation by the Nuclear Armed Apartheid State in the Mideast…Israel.

      THIS Jew will NOT be SILENT!!!

      Reply to Comment
    2. Bruce Gould

      This is the most articulate recent article I’ve seen on why it’s all over: there’s one state, that’s it; the next 20 years will be a struggle against apartheid and for equal rights for all the residents of Greater Israel:

      http://mondoweiss.net/2016/02/the-occupation-is-over-isnt-it/

      For almost fifty years Israel’s Jewish population has expanded into occupied territory, about 700,000 settlers according to recent estimates. For more than two generations, Israelis have relocated to East Jerusalem, the West Bank and the Golan Heights – no longer to Gaza, which in any case never had more than 6,500 settlers at its peak. The number of Israelis who have been born in the settlements is increasing, and the vast majority of settlers are native Israelis, who move across the Green Line for cheaper housing and quality of life, with only about 15% relocating for ideological reasons. Several hundred kilometers of new highways have been built to connect their communities with the Israeli heartland. The new light rail system in Jerusalem reaches deep into occupied territory,…

      Reply to Comment
      • Ben

        Great article. Clears away a lot of distractions, provides much needed perspective on the situation. Nothing like perspective.

        Regarding:

        “Is this Occupation? Is this colonization? Is this Apartheid? Is it none of the above?”

        See:

        Oren Yiftachel: “The main harm to human rights and the obstacles to establishing a Palestinian state are not a result of the military occupation, but actually stem from the civil transformation… separation long ago disappeared. Israel created a continuous Jewish civilian space…. But Arabs have inferior collective citizenship…closely linked to their identity as Palestinians…. In international law, a situation whereby a country appropriates and settles territories outside its sovereign borders is called colonialism. Southern Lebanon was an example of military occupation; the West Bank is an example of colonialism, one that seeks to entrench itself over time while preserving the privileges of the ruling population, and incidentally creating an apartheid regime….Apartheid in the West Bank seeps into the entire area between the Jordan and the sea.”

        http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.702597

        Reply to Comment
        • Samson

          Achmed, first you post as “Bruce Gould” and then come back and respond to yourself as “Ben”. But still, you sound like a broken record.

          Second, you copy and paste from Mondoweiss while posing as “Bruce Gould”, and from Haaretz while posing as “Ben”, but still, you sound like a broken record. Even such simply thing as ‘copy and paste’ you can’t do properly. Either you copy and paste without quotation marks or what you post in quotation marks is actually NOT true quotes, but your own manipulating what you are quoting!

          For whatever reason, you are ashamed of your Muslim heritage and as a result hide behind multiple Jewish sounding names such as “Ben”, “Bruce Gould”, “Giora Meir”, “Carmen”, “Eliza”, etc. all of which are the aliases you use to post on this site. Why is that? To gain some credibility? To appear “smart”? To blend-in? Whichever one it is, you still sound like a broken record. Poor little old “Ben”. What a shame.

          Reply to Comment
    3. Carmen

      “They’re just like animals,” Yehuda explained to us, but we did not reply. The women were gathered onto another truck, and they began to scream and weep. We felt a mood of beggary, pus, and leprosy, and all that was lacking was the sound of dirges and charity saveth from death.”Ugh, revolting!” said Shlomo.

      “Better they should die!” said Yehuda.

      Something struck me like lightning. All at once everything seemed to mean something different, more precisely: exile. This was exile. This was what exile was like. This was what exile looked like.”

      “What in God’s name were we doing in this place? My eyes darted to and fro and couldn’t fix on anything. Behind me the village was already beginning to fall silent, its house gathered on the slope of the hill, bounded here and there with treetops, from which the sun,behind them, forged silent shadows, which were sunk in contimplation, knowing much more than we did and surveying the silence of the village, that same silence which, more and more, was conspiring to create an atmosphere of its own, a realization of abandonment, an oppressive grief of separation, of an empty home, a deserted shore, wave upon wave, and a bare horizon. And that same strange silence as though of a corpse. And why not? It was nothing. A single day of discomfort and then our people would strike root here for many years. Like a tree planted by streams of water. Yes. On the other hand, what of the wicked … but they were already there on the trucks, and soon they’d be nothing more than a page that had been finished and turned. Certainly wasn’t it our right? Hadn’t we conquered here today? I felt that I was on the verge of slipping. I managed to pull myself together. My guts cried out. Colonizers they shouted. Lies, my guts shouted. Khirbet Khizeh is not ours. The Spandau gun never gave us any rights. Oh my guts screamed. What hadn’t they told us about refugees? Everything, everything was for the refugees, their welfare, their rescue … our refuges, naturally. Those we were driving out-that was a totally different matter. Wait. Two thousand years of exile. The whole story, Jews being killed. Europe. We were the masters now”.

      “All around silence was falling, and very soon it would close upon the last circle. And when silence had closed in on everything and no man disturbed the stillness, which yearned noiselessly for what was beyond silence-then God would come forth and descend to roam the valley, and see whether all was according to the cry that had reached him.” May 1949 Khirbet Khizeh by S. Smilansky.

      Am Yisrael Chai! – Paid in blood by the people of Palestine. Viva Palestina!

      Reply to Comment
      • Naomi

        The arabs who now call themselves “palestinyan” are essentially Jordanians who started the 6 day war of 1967. The best and fairest solution is for all them to go home.

        If the Jordanians stay, they will simply continue to stab us on the street and make our lives a misery.

        Reply to Comment
      • Gustav

        This is what your Arabs raise their kids to do. They raise them to be animals…

        “Dafna Meir (38)
        Dafna Meir, an Israeli mother of six was attacked outside of her home by a Palestinian terrorist wielding a knife. The attacker approached from behind and stabbed Meir in the back of the head, and a struggle ensued eventually leading into Meir’s home. She was killed by the attacker in her kitchen, but none of her children were harmed. The 16-year old assailant fled the scene, but was arrested two days later and charged with murder.”

        Reply to Comment
        • Elisabeth

          The woman should not have gotten herself involved in stealing the last land left to the Palestinians. And to involve her children in it too! What was she thinking…

          Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Elisabeth:”The woman should not have gotten herself involved in stealing the last land left to the Palestinians”

            What? Your Arabs can deliberately target and murder our civilians? What about your collective punshment accustion against us? Our civilians are fair game for them to vent their hatred against us but when we kill their civilians in cross fire we are criminals?

            Once again, you just exposed your side’s hypocrisy, deary. Yes, you Elisabeth you hateful hypocrite.

            Reply to Comment
          • Carmen

            What I can’t understand is the cavalier way settlers move onto land that isn’t theirs, steal water and other resources, then weep and wail when something happens to them. They put themselves and their families in danger, then blame everyone but themselves for the tragic outcome. Incredibly stupid. Makes about as much sense as drinking 10 shots of whiskey, then loading up the Skoda with wife and kids for a drive. Maybe you’ll get away with it once or even 100 times, but sooner or later something terrible will happen. “Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God”, but you all do it all the time. Stupid, really very stupid.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4pKMV6e5kEo

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            In any case, darling, please do tell us, what land did this poor woman steal from your prescious Palestinian Arabs?

            Reply to Comment
          • Lion Of Judah

            Ben, you are repeating yourself and justifying the murder of an innocent young mother of 6-children, while posing again as a woman! I am amazed that +972 allows you to use multiple aliases on this site. You Muslim jihadis murder and rape at will and always have “justification” for the evil you inflict on others. Dafna Meir was a Jew. She lived in Judea and Samaria. Judea and Samaria is the heart of the Land of Israel. Dafna Meir has every RIGHT to live in Judea and Samaria! There are Arabs living there now as well amongst Jews. We want to co-exist in peace with those Arabs. But if we apply YOUR ‘logic of killing whomever you can kill’, we can destroy them, but we choose not to do that. We choose to live with them in peace. That is the difference between us and you: we protect ourselves and our neighbors who see themselves as our enemies and are killing us; we protect the weak even when we are sure that the people we protect intend to destroy us, but you murder and want the whole world for yourself, you rape and enslave the weak. Stop justifying murderous evil, because it turns you into a beast and will destroy you in the end.

            Reply to Comment
    4. Eliza

      Various Yesh Din articles detailing the Levy Report and the process by which the GOI is requisitioning private Palestinian land in the West Bank are available to the Israeli public. These issues could be a matter of discussion or criticism if enough ordinary Israelis choose to be concerned. The fact that they are not is as just as much a reflection of general Israeli complacency if not approval of such measures as of the processes of government.

      Clearly the 2SS is over. What is not apparent is whether or not Israelis will be content with the mere herding of Palestinians into small autonomous zones or whether or not they still quietly hold on to visions of voluntary or involuntary transfer. Either way, there appears to be confidence, that when push comes to shove, the US will just look the other way and continue with its mindless support of Israel.

      Reply to Comment
      • Samson

        BruceGould/Ben/Eliza/Carmen/Elisabeth,

        You are still repeating the same nonsense over and over again.

        Here are the FACTS;

        1. The Ottoman law was the law in the West Bank BEFORE 1967;

        2. Israel continues to apply the ottoman law in the West Bank AFTER 1967 (as also required under international law);

        3. Israel does not appropriate “private own lands” of Palestinians or anyone else. Where Jewish homes have been built on privately owned Palestinian land, the owners have appealed to the Israeli Supreme Court. The Supreme in all cases of proven private ownership has ordered the homes demolished, Jews thrown out of their homes and the land returned to its owners.

        4. The “2SS” as YOU put it is NOT dead (you always find a way to inject national socialist symbols into the discussion, just like in the other thread where you are posing as “Pál Prónay”). In fact your Muslim Arab people can put an end to the “occupation” TODAY, if they choose to. All they have to do is accept 2-states-4-2-peoples: one ARAB and the other JEWISH as also called for by UN-resolution. Your people are refusing to do that, while at the same time bemoaning “occupation” and playing the victim card. Until your people accept accept 2-states-4-2-peoples: one ARAB and the other JEWISH, the “occupation” will continue – to your own detriment – and there will be NO “apartheid” and NO single-state.

        Kapish?!

        Reply to Comment
        • Carmen

          “BruceGould/Ben/Eliza/Carmen/Elisabeth”

          Are you insisting that all of the above are one? If so, you’re not living in the real world but an alternate universe where you believe you have control of anything. You appear to be intimidated by the many voices of dissent WRT the zionist narrative and have to lump all into one person. I could certainly do the same with you Samson/whonoze/Gustav/Pal Pronay/Skyhawk/Daniel, et al, but its a ridiculous waste of energy and nothing but a distraction……..forgot, that’s the only point in any post by Samson/whonoze/Gustav/Pal Pronay/Skyhawk/Daniel, et al.

          Reply to Comment
          • Samson

            1. “Pál Prónay

            Thursday
            February 25, 2016

            Palestine needs to learn from Hungary how it solved its Jewish problems”

            2. “Carmen

            Monday
            February 22, 2016

            (…) It’s convenient and it’s disgusting that you zionist pigs continue to use the deaths of Jews to further your carnage on the Palestinian people with the goal to wipe them out or drive them out so you can steal all of what remains of PALESTINE. You should be ashamed, you, and everyone like you. Disgusting filthy beasts.”, http://972mag.com/political-persecution-wont-stop-us-from-breaking-our-silence/117265/

            3. QUESTION 1

            What is the difference between “Carmen/Ben” and “Pál Prónay”, you anti-Semitic little piece of shit?!

            Reply to Comment
          • Carmen

            “What is the difference between “Carmen/Ben” and “Pál Prónay”, you anti-Semitic little piece of shit?!”

            Carmen is an exceptionally talented, beautiful singer and dancer from Brazil. Aye que rico!

            Pal Pronay also goes by Samson/whonoze/Gustav/Pal Pronay/Skyhawk/Daniel, et al. Fuchi capesta 🙁

            Reply to Comment
          • Samson

            Ben is on the run with his tail between his legs. Ben can’t answer very simple questions.

            Ben while nervously “laughing” says:

            “Carmen is an exceptionally talented, beautiful singer and dancer from Brazil. Aye que rico!”

            Indeed, Ben. We all know that you are an old man who also poses as a very beautiful woman. In fact, you not only pose as “Carmen”, but also as “Eliza” “Lauren”, “Eva”, etc. each time you feel like a chic! Maybe you should put on your blond-wig, a thong and red lipstick and shave off your jihadi mustache, Ben; perhaps then you would look sexy enough to tempt us to take you seriously, dontcha think? ROFLMAO …..

            Anyways, pls. answer the question above so that we can move on to the next. The question is NOT ‘who are you?’, BUT ‘what is the difference between you “Ben/Carmen/etc.” and “Pál Prónay” We are just getting started, you little anti-Semitic piece of shit.

            Answer the question, Ben.

            We are waiting …..

            Reply to Comment
          • Carmen

            Samson/whonoze/skyduck/Gustav, et al, some schtick you’ve got. I guess this is entertaining to you but assume most of your entertainment is of the solitary variety anyway. No one is obliged to answer any question you or your puppets pose. You don’t run this site or make the rules. The only thing you run is your mouth. Your continual reposting of posts by the lovely and talented moi, Carmen, and your knuckle-dragging puppet PP, is nothing but false equivalence and a pretty pathetic one at that. You aren’t doing anything but trying to shut any post that doesn’t kiss the gigantic ass of zionist pigs. You’ve got presidential candidates in the US falling all over each other to out-fellate the last guy (or gal) to prove their loyalty to a horribly, horribly wrong ‘government’. You aren’t doing anything to help israel at all. You don’t care about israel or its inhabitants. This is just play time for a sick mind. Am Yisrael Chai – not by anything you’re doing.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            CARMEN:”Pal Pronay also goes by Samson/whonoze/Gustav/Pal Pronay/Skyhawk/Daniel, et al.”

            Cute. Very cute. This Pronay, whoever he is, comes here to espouse extreme anti Jewish sentiments and lies. That’s bad enough…

            But then one of our resident cynical Jew haters, Carmen, tries to perpetrate the lie that someone like me, would be doing that. That I or other Jews deliberately pretend to be Pronay.

            Why exactly would any of us want to do that? To shoot ourselves in the foot?

            That was just a rhetorical question. Don’t answer that, Carmen dear because every time you open your mouth, only lies come out of it. I am just not interested in reading more of your fantasies and lies.

            Reply to Comment
          • Samson

            Moving on, Ben …

            1. “Carmen

            Tuesday
            January 19, 2016

            “Who is we”?
            “We” means you, not everyone else and certainly not the over 20% non-Jewish citizens. (…). And if some of the so-called “left” are getting just a taste of the love from the right, so what. Go back to America, UK, Australia or wherever you came from. The “historic” land of the Jews is found in antiquity, and that’s if you believe the book. The zionists are modern day dinosaurs that are heading for extinction and by their own hands too”. http://972mag.com/why-palestinians-arent-standing-up-for-israeli-leftists/116071/

            2. “Pál Prónay

            Friday
            February 26, 2016

            I am not trying to “tar” 972mag with anti-Semitism. In fact, I see it as a valyble resource in exposing Jewish crimes. I am trying to be a unifying force between the left of 972mag and the right wing community, who is in total agreement with 972 on the Jewish question, and establishing “Jewish homelands” where they have no right to be.

            3. QUESTION 2

            What is the difference between “Ben/Carmen” and “Pál Prónay”, you psychotic anti-Semitic little piece of shit?!

            Don’t bother answering that question, because the answer is not only obvious, but nothing intelligent can be expected to come forth of an imbecilic racist. Here is the answer:

            4. ANSWER

            NONE! No difference between what Ben/Carmen/Pál Prónay/etc. are saying. Ben/Pál Prónay is saying the SAME THING with his different/multiple aliases: denial of Jewish historical connection to the Land of Israel and the right of the Jewish People to a Jewish Homeland in their Ancestral Homeland!

            Reply to Comment
          • Carmen

            Sorry, did you say something Samson/whonoze/Pal Pronay/Skyhawk/Daniel/Gustav, et al?

            Reply to Comment
    5. Pál Prónay

      We had the same problem in Hungary, when Jews tried to declare it an ethnic Jewish homeland, despite us Magyar majority. I know how the Palestinians feel

      Reply to Comment
      • Gustav

        Pronay:”We had the same problem in Hungary, when Jews tried to declare it an ethnic Jewish homeland, despite us Magyar majority”

        Really? When? This little shit, Pal Pronay, is inventing his own history.

        Reply to Comment
        • Pál Prónay

          Sorry zionist pig Gustav. Yossi is courageous enough to recognize that Palestine has a Jewish problem, just like Hungary had

          Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            LOL. Yossi is your friend? I hope you make each other happy, Magyar pig. Did you know that Yossi was born as a Jew? What is it you Magyar pigs say? Once a Jew always a Jew? Or don’t you think like that about court Jews?

            Now, you lying Magyar pig, are you going to answer my question about when did Jews try to take the land away from the Magyars? I bet you can’t substantiate that little lie of yours by providing a link to a reputable site to verify your lie. I know you will be able to post links to far right sites which verify your lie but don’t even bother posting links to such sites. No self respecting person would bother to click on it. So please post a link to a reputable site if you can… Or don’t bother…

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            So when (if) you get your chance, you will spare those court Jews? While the rest of us you want to murder?

            By the way, why did you Magyar pigs murder Jewish babies too in WW2? Were the babies not righteous enough for you? Or did you just hate Jews so much that you didn’t even want to spare Jewish babies?

            By the way, are you going to answer my question? When did the Jews try to take over Magyar land? In your feverish imagination maybe?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Gustav, you still don’t get it? Or you don’t want to get it? His whole (far right wing Israeli) aim is to pose as a n*zi and insinuate, absurdly, that Yossi and Natasha, and by extension +972 and the left share his “belief.” This is why he keeps harping dishonestly on what Yossi or Natasha supposedly intend by not censoring his comments, and keeps trying to praise them and merge himself with them. It couldn’t be more transparent. You go right for the bait and wittingly or unwittingly participate full on in his game when you say something you know to be false: “Yossi is your friend? I hope you make each other happy.” And maliciously refer to Yossi and Natasha as “court Jews.” This operator has you right where he wants you. Playing you like a fiddle. Don’t fall for it and let him play you for his useful fool. (Of course if you *want* to abet the game he’s playing then that’s something else. But I am going to assume that you don’t. Although your insulting comments in reference to Yossi and Natasha makes one wonder.)

            Reply to Comment
          • Samson

            The FACTS

            One thing is very clear: The message of Ben/Carmen/Pál Prónay is THE SAME – consistently and without a single difference. That message is this:

            1. Jews have no right to a Jewish homeland in Palestine;
            2. Jews are foreign colonists from the West who stole Palestine from the indigenous Palestinians.
            3. “Zionists are pigs”!

            This is what I have demonstrated above and it has NOT and CANNOT be disproven! This is the virulent anti-Semitism +972 allows on its website! In fact the ONLY explanation Ben/Carmen/Pál Prónay has given us so far is this: “Carmen is an exceptionally talented, beautiful singer and dancer from Brazil. Aye que rico!”. Ben, seeing how he is getting exposed bit by bit and his idiotic grand strategy with Pál Prónay falling apart, is getting nervous and very worried which is why he has now finally emerged from his hole and is revealing to us the exact weird strategy and motive of Pál Prónay is (something on Pál Prónay would know and which Ben knows because Ben is Pál Prónay!). Ben will not respond to this, but will instead melt away like the little jihadi-coward he is, metamorphose into Carmen and start obfuscating and insulting in order to distract and change the subject, instead of addressing the substance.

            You be the judge, folks. See the posts above – to begin with.

            I only laid out the FACTS (of which there is more).

            Reply to Comment
          • Carmen

            Jews had a homeland in antiquity, per the book most of you don’t believe. They were cast out according to the same book. End of any tie you have to Palestine. Most of you arrived I bet in the last 20-30 years, at most after 1948. Your Palestinian brethren have been here for centuries. But the land is yours? Most Palestinians want one state, one people, one vote, and a democracy without the religiosity. Most Israeli Jews don’t seem to want that at all. Who has more to lose? Who has lost more? Who has an army? Who has only determination to not be moved? Instead of jerking around why not put your energy into a future? Most young Jews in America are so sickened by the occupation that they have no interest at all in the zionist state. They are sickened by the continued theft of land and murder of Palestinians IN THEIR NAME. And all you do is piss and moan. You’re full of shit. You are a shame to the Jewish people and the martyrs of the holocaust. Fuck off.

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          • Samson

            Again you confirm what I have been saying – i.e.Ben/Carmen/ Pál Prónay are saying THE SAME THING, moron! THAT is the whole point. THAT is what you have just confirmed again. The disagreement on who exactly Pál Prónay is, is therefore at least moot, while the FACTS at most prove that Ben/Carmen/Pál Prónay is the SAME person.

            And, if, as Ben/Carmen claims, Pál Prónay is a “right wing Israeli false flag”, so also is Ben/Carmen a “right wing Israeli false flag”, because Ben/Carmen/Pál Prónay are saying THE SAME THING!

            Are you that dense to understand that?

            Reply to Comment
          • Samson

            Typo correction

            “Ben, seeing how he is getting exposed bit by bit and his idiotic grand strategy with Pál Prónay falling apart, is getting nervous and very worried which is why he has now finally emerged from his hole and is revealing to us WHAT the exact weird strategy and motive of Pál Prónay is (something ONLY Pál Prónay would know and which Ben knows because Ben is Pál Prónay!).”

            ———————————————————

            Not only has Ben/Carmen posted on this site that “Zionists are pigs”, he also posted that the “Zionists are filthy beasts”. See my posts above. So:

            Are Muslim Arabs also “pigs”?
            Are Muslim Arabs also “filthy beasts”?

            Would +972 have banned anyone who calls Muslim Arabs “pigs”?
            Would +972 have banned anyone who calls Muslim Arabs “filthy beasts”?

            Why then does +972 allow racist and virulent anti-Semitism on its website?

            Is +972 promoting racism and ant-Semitism?

            What is going on here on this site?!!

            Folks, if you don’t hear from me (soon) hereafter, just know that I have been banned. It is not the first time. The only thing I do wrong is being critical and making arguments based on the reasons I give to support my arguments, and THAT is obviously seen as a threat by Lisa Goldman et al. – nothing more. That is the same reason why Merkava and afterwards Whonoze cannot post again.

            Reply to Comment
          • Carmen

            “Folks, if you don’t hear from me (soon) hereafter, just know that I have been banned. It is not the first time.” Samson/Whonoze/Merkava/Pal Pronay/Skyduck/et al – this isn’t the academy awards but I’d nominate you for best comedy short. Do you have a fan club I can join? Is this Samson/Whonoze/Merkava/Pal Pronay/Skyduck’s final performance, swan song if you will? God I hope so! Anyway, I don’t think you’re being banned, you’re just setting up a scenario for yourself so you can take a break and get that much needed ECT and come up with a new name. I’ve got a few for you if you’re interested.

            You’re definitely a one trick pony. Are you capable of answering questions from a fan? I’ll ask again, maybe you missed them in your haste to slander Ben, myself and +972. “Your Palestinian brethren have been here for centuries. But the land is yours? Most Palestinians want one state, one people, one vote, and a democracy without the religiosity. Most Israeli Jews don’t seem to want that at all. Who has more to lose? Who has lost more? Who has an army? Who has only determination to not be moved? Instead of jerking around why not put your energy into a future? Most young Jews in America are so sickened by the occupation that they have no interest at all in the zionist state. They are sickened by the continued theft of land and murder of Palestinians IN THEIR NAME. And all you do is piss and moan. You’re full of shit. You are a shame to the Jewish people and the martyrs of the holocaust”.

            Reply to Comment
          • Samson

            What exactly is this filthy baboon-pussy with a mustache who calls himself Carmen aka “Ben” rambling about? Get this straight:

            The Land is the Land of Israel.

            On that Land the Jewish State of Israel is founded.

            The Jewish State of Israel is there to stay – for eternity, and there is nothing YOU can do about it except foam at the mouth, stomp your feet and rant incoherently in the comment sections of Jewish websites – every single day. The very day you and your jihadi brothers get violent against us, you will be put in your place if you know what I mean. ROFLMAO…

            You got that, you little filthy baboon-pussy with a mustache?

            Reply to Comment
          • Carmen

            “Get this straight”? That’s a freudian slip there. Also, the way you usually get yourself banned is when your already disgusting posts deteriorate into the sexually graphic, misogynistic and now with an added bonus of some kind of threat. What a sad little boy you are. Yet, it passed moderation and you’re still here. Oh what to do, what to do.

            Reply to Comment
          • Samson

            YOU Ben/Carmen said this:

            “Carmen

            Monday
            February 22, 2016

            (…) It’s convenient and it’s disgusting that you zionist pigs continue to use the deaths of Jews to further your carnage on the Palestinian people with the goal to wipe them out or drive them out so you can steal all of what remains of PALESTINE. You should be ashamed, you, and everyone like you. Disgusting filthy beasts.”, http://972mag.com/political-persecution-wont-stop-us-from-breaking-our-silence/117265/

            Those are YOUR racist and anti-Semitic comments – you filthy baboon-pussy with a mustache!

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Are you serious Benny? Are you seriously addressing this post of yours to me? Well, I never…

            But, is it so hard to believe that some moron Jew hating Pronay would stumble onto this magazine and love what he reads here? By your own admission, the job of this magazine is to vilify Israel, the state of the Jewish people. Didn’t you say that it’s no use talking to us Israelis and it’s time to convince everyone else about “how eeeeviiiil we are” so that you can BDS us and wake us up from our stupor (according to you that is)?

            Now why on earth do you think that a Jew hating pig like Pronay wouldn’t love you guys?

            Hey, it doesn’t matter to me who this Pronay is. Whether as others allege he is you, Carmen or some other Jew hating regular here or whether he is a new extreme right wing Jew hater. I don’t really care. The one thing that I know is that he fits right in with the sentiments of this magazine and people such as yourself. You each hate us for your own reasons. Pronay is just a good old fashioned Magyar nut job who grew up from a young age hating Jews like his parents and his parents and etc Magyar parents hated us…

            You on the other hand hate us because you are a brainwashed extreme left wing ideologue who wants to fit in with your fellow ideologues. The one common thing makes you lot and Pronay brothers in arms is your common blind hatred of us. The fact that you hate each other too is totally irrelevant to me. You are both sworn enemies of mine. That’s the only thing that interests me. Like I said, to me, you and this Pronay are tweedle dee and tweedle dum.

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          • Ben

            Oh, so you *do* want to abet the game he is playing. Thanks for clearing that up. We’ll take it into account.

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          • Gustav

            What game, fool? Do you know this Magyar N@zi Benny?

            If you do, then tell us who he is and offer proof.

            Can’t offer proof? Then stop making up stories. Awww shucks, who am I kidding?

            Poor old Benny-leh lives in his own Walter Mitty world in which reality is not relevant.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            You know, nothing could ever better illustrate your bad faith, your utter refusal to ever have an honest conversation, the utter futility of engaging you. It’s just hasbara, hasbara, hasbara, 24/7. You’d rather play footsie with a ‘Herr Stürmer’ style right wing anti-Semite? We could not fail to notice you went through every possibility *except* the most obvious and plausible on the face of it: that he is a new extreme right wing Israel supporter *posing* as a Jew hater. Natasha Roth threw him out, by the way.

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          • Gustav

            LOL. Poor old Benny.

            I asked for PROOF Benny-leh. Not self serving CONJECTURE.

            This idiot Magyar spews hatred against Jews. He is a self described Jew hater. You are acting as if such extreme right wing N*zis don’t exist. I take him at face value. As usual you Benny are trying to make use of him to further your anti Israel propaganda.

            You know what that makes you? It makes you look cheap and pathetic.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            BEN:”We could not fail to notice you went through every possibility”

            “We”? LOL. Are you using the royal plural now, Benny-leh? Who is we?

            BEN:”*except* the most obvious and plausible on the face of it: that he is a new extreme right wing Israel supporter *posing* as a Jew hater.”

            I went through one posibility. The possibility that he is who he says he is. I asked you for proof if you think that he is who you say he is but all you came back with is a confirmation that you are making an unsubstantiated conjecture and using the word “OBVIOUS” does not change it from being just your conjecture.

            BEN:”Natasha Roth threw him out, by the way.”

            You don’t say. Is that your proof? You mean to tell me she would not throw out a Jew hating Magyar N#zi?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            The very fact that you demand proof for something pretty evident *and* which you should view as helpful and of utmost relevance to *your* own interests says it all. It’s like warning someone “hey that strange guy walking behind you is trying to pick your pocket” and having that someone reply with “oh yeah?, I demand proof of that before I stay away from that strange guy!” If someone replied to my warning like that I’d wonder what his own motives are and what he is doing on that street!

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Nah Benny-leh the your analogy is totally inapt.

            The only thing that is obvious here is your total hatred of Israel.

            The fact that you try to pretend without proof that someone who comes here professing utter hatred of Jews is a supporter of Israel just makes you look to be what you really are. A pathetic propagandist.

            Now, believe me, no matter how often you come back to utter your conjectures, I will keep on repeating what I say. And as you know Benny-leh as stubborn as you are about your lies. I am just as patient as you are and then some. Nothing short of proper proof from you will satisfy me. Asserting that your claim is the OBVIOUS truth is no proof at all.

            Your turn, LOL.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            I rest my case. I just showed why your very demand for proof undermines the claim you seek proof for, and you are still nattering on about being stubborn (we believe you!) and “Nothing short of proper proof from you will satisfy me.” Bye bye.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            You rest your case? What case? You have no case, Benny. You are making a laughing stock of yourself. That’s your case.

            Let me just summarize your case. You are saying that if someone comes to a site like this and claims that Jews are evil and that the idea of their extermination was the right idea and that Israel is evil. And that Israel needs to be destroyed etc …

            You are saying that it is obvious that such an individual must be an extreme right winger Jewish Israeli.

            Are you serious, Benny? Or maybe a better question would be, are you retarded, Benny? Or are you this much full of hate? Or do you think that everyone is as stupid as you are?

            What a jerk. I think I’ll just choose to laugh your stupidity off Benny-leh. LOL.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            No, that’s not my case. That’s a plainly dishonest representation of my case, as you know very well. You simply prove once again the utter futility of engaging you. But one more point before I go if you don’t mind. It has been pointed out that the settlers who made the ‘Herr Stürmer’ video were both supporters of Israel and deeply anti-Semitic. Would the people who pointed that out be “pathetic propagandists”?

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Yep, Benny-leh is right on cue…

            That’s my case…

            It is obvious….

            No that’s not my case…

            I predicted (to myself) that Benny would do exactly that. He has a policy of refusing to be pinned down. It used to annoy me, I must admit. But no longer. I no longer care what Benny says. I am just here to do to him and others like him what they set out to do to us. The only difference is that I can do it in an honest way just by reminding Benny about what context and true history is. No need for me to distort, deny and fabricate things like Benny does. And that galls poor old Benny. Part of me actually feels for him. It must be awfully tiring for him to do what he does day in day out and still have self respect.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “I am just here to do to him and others like him what they set out to do to us.”

            Gustav’s paranoid worldview and frank admission of dishonesty and bad faith all wrapped up in one sentence. You really ought to be more careful with the things you let slip, Gussie.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            BUSTAV:“I am just here to do to him and others like him what they set out to do to us.”

            BEN:”Gustav’s paranoid worldview and frank admission of dishonesty and bad faith all wrapped up in one sentence. You really ought to be more careful with the things you let slip, Gussie.”

            LOL, has anyone picked up on Benny’s above admission?

            Is it just me? Or is he really admitting that he is inherently dishonest?

            In any case, I don’t need to be dishonest to expose Benny for what he is. For starters, he is stupid enough to implicate himself. As for the rest? All I need to do is to talk about the history of this conflict.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Nope. Quite the opposite. You missed a crucial word in my sentence: “paranoid.” Changes everything. Now try again. You can do it!

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            LOL and you missed my entire sentence…

            BUSTAV:“I am just here to do to him and others like him what they set out to do to us.”

            …as a consequence of which you claimed that I admitted to dishonesty, shows that you consider yourself to be dishonest…

            LOL, get it, Benny-leh? I am here to do to you what you are doing… then you claim that it is an admission of dishonesty on my part…
            Only I am doing what you are doing, get it Benny-leh? Nah? I guess you just don’t wanna get it…

            … well Benny-leh, who can blame you? Why would you wanna admit that once again you stepped in your own shit?

            Now watch Benny obfuscate, deny, and claim insanity before we finish this silly interchange. But hey Benny, I will play your childish game if that’s what you want. At least I know that I’ll take up a bit of your time from your favorite pass time of vilifying my country. Go on, Benny-leh proceed. I can’t wait to see shat you’ll come up with next. I am sure you can stretch this out to 15, maybe 20 more posts?

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