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Political persecution won't stop us from breaking our silence

The orchestrated onslaught against Israeli anti-occupation groups have led to death threats and physical attacks. But we will not be scared — we are determined to save our country from the same messianic, nationalistic, and racist forces that harm it.

By Yuli Novak

A public reading of Breaking the Silence testimonies in Tel Aviv to mark 10 years since the organization was founded, June 6, 2014. (Oren Ziv/Activestills.org)

A public reading of Breaking the Silence testimonies in Tel Aviv to mark 10 years since the organization was founded, June 6, 2014. (Oren Ziv/Activestills.org)

Over the last few months, as the Israeli government is less helpless in the face of terror and our foreign relations are at an unprecedented low — we have experienced, for the first time, what political persecution feels like. The ongoing campaign against Breaking the Silence is not intended to criticize or argue over political opinions. The campaign is intended to put a hit on the organization, or at the very least to force us to back down, thus sending a message to all those opposed to the government’s policies.

The last few months have not been easy, but the attempt to dismantle us did not and will not succeed. The attempt failed because all the forces in the world cannot silence the voices of soldiers who served in the occupied territories and carried out the occupation in our name. This attempt, in fact, has left the organization stronger than ever.

Political persecution is nothing new, even here. Palestinians living in the occupied territories under a military regime, and Palestinian citizens of Israel living under continual, institutional discrimination, are the victims of a far more pernicious form of political persecution than Israeli Jews. But both the mechanism and the goal is similar: maintaining and entrenching control through weakening us, dividing us, and sowing fear among us. In order to defeat this persecution, we must speak about and understand it.

One of the central strategies of the campaign against us is through spreading lies and disinformation about the organization — all of it thoroughly coordinated on various platforms. Behind this strategy is one of Education Minister Naftali Bennett’s closest advisors, Moshe Klughaft, whose goal is quite simple: “We must always try slander, because things stick.” Slanderous remarks were heard time and time again in the Knesset, in campaigns by right-wing groups, on social media, and in the press.

During the first week of the campaign, which launched in December, Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon announced that he would prevent Breaking the Silence from giving lectures at IDF bases. Then Bennett announced that he would stop us from coming to speak with high school students. Then Im Tirzu released their vicious, inciting video, while Yair Lapid announced that he would promote legislation against us. Since then the Knesset has become one of the focal points of the same campaign: three separate bills were proposed against Breaking the Silence and other organizations, while senior cabinet members and members of Knesset have joined the chorus of incitement, among them Prime Minister Netanyahu.

Im Tirzu video showing Hagai Elad

Im Tirzu’s ‘foreign implant’ video shows B’Tselem’s Hagai El-Ad. (Screenshot)

Israeli media outlets also played a crucial role in spreading these lies. Hundreds of news items presented baseless claims against Breaking the Silence, most of the time without any fact checking, to the point that it felt as if a number of media outlets had themselves become the voice of the government. The incitement bore fruit, and the harassment and real threats against — as well as attempts to attack — members of the organization have reached a fever pitch.

Meanwhile our ability to work within the formal and informal education system — where much of our work is done — is being stifled. We are happy to say that many educators have insisted on continuing to invite us to give lectures to teenagers. In fact, when it comes to our educational activities, these last few months have been our busiest ever.

Alongside these successes, it has been extremely difficult to come to terms with the fact that for the past year and a half, right-wing moles have been operating among a number of human rights organizations. Armed with hidden cameras and well-trained by former members of the Shin Bet, these spies pretended to be volunteers and took part in our activities for many months. Suddenly we discovered that people we thought were our friends were actually being paid by one of the most extreme right-wing groups in the country, the Samaria Settler Council, so that they could record our private conversations. This method, directly out of the playbook of non-democratic regimes, is meant to sow fear and suspicion among activists, and thus to destroy the anti-occupation community from within. Discovering that some members of the coalition were part of this plot was shocking.

‘Ad Kan’ undercover agent Amir Beit Arieh speaking to Channel 2 about infiltrating left-wing organizations. (Screenshot)

‘Ad Kan’ undercover agent Amir Beit Arieh speaks to Channel 2 about infiltrating left-wing organizations. (Screenshot)

Our duty as citizens who believe in democratic values, who believe that human beings have the basic right to live, express their opinions, and carry out a political struggle without fear, is to recognize the mechanisms that work against us — to put the spotlight on them and oppose them with all our power.

This is precisely what Breaking the Silence has been doing for the past decade: we want to expose the practices of an occupation regime and the moral price that maintaining that regime entails. When we listen to soldiers who have been sent to carry out this regime, we understand that an occupation cannot be moral — that it is ugly and destructive to both Israeli and Palestinian society. Unfortunately, one of its most ugly components is the spread of mechanisms of power that become indistinguishable from those of the state. This, in turn, leads to marking more and more people as “enemies of the state.”

Despite the reality, there are many good reasons to be optimistic, since political persecution also opens up possibilities: to get strong, to grow, to learn, to meet new people and build a united front. Alongside the attacks on us, we have witnessed a wave of support, solidarity, and an impressive ability for cooperation within our camp. We at Breaking the Silence are determined to continue to work toward ending the occupation and exposing its injustices. We are determined to save our country from the same messianic, nationalistic, and racist forces that harm it. The ones that, unfortunately, make up our government.

Yuli Novak is the executive director of Breaking the Silence. This article was first published in Hebrew on Local Call. Read it here.

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    COMMENTS

    1. Bruce Gould

      IDF chief Eisenkot welcomes cooperation with Breaking the Silence, from the Jerusalem Post:

      http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/IDF-chief-says-he-welcomes-cooperation-with-Breaking-the-Silence-444335

      The peculiar thing is that on every issue from the military need to keep the West Bank to the causes of the recent wave of stabbing attacks to the desirability of the 2002 Arab Peace Plan the Israeli military finds itself increasingly on opposite sides of the hasbara community.

      Reply to Comment
      • Gustav

        The what plan?

        Anything that insists on the so called “Right of Return” is not a peace plan. It is more like a piece plan. A little piece here, a little piece there and voila, no more Israel…

        When the Arabs agree to negotiate everything that is in their plan, including their “Right of Return” demand one may start calling it a peace plan. In the meanwhile, it is just an attempt to dictate terms of surrender.

        Reply to Comment
        • Ben

          The RoR principle of the Arab Peace Plan is a basis for negotiations not a final status demand. Israel could treat it as a starting point not an end result if it wanted to. Israel has many demands that the Palestinians see as nonstarters too. That’s the point of negotiations. Plenty of Israeli defense and national security experts have repeatedly viewed the Arab Peace Plan very favorably in terms of Israel’s true security interests. Of course, if Israel’s true interests are about real estate not security then it could find almost any reason not to enter serious talks and treat the Palestinians seriously. Hey, whaddayaknow, that’s exactly how Israel behaves!

          Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            BEN:”The RoR principle of the Arab Peace Plan is a basis for negotiations not a final status demand.”

            Another one of Benny’s many lies. The Arabs said to Israel when they presented the plan, take it as it is or leave it…

            They said, the only thing there is to talk about is the methodology of implementing their precious plan.

            So we are leaving it till they realize that they won’t be dictating our terms of surrender (suicide).

            Reply to Comment
    2. Ginger Eis

      Truth Matters!

      The trade in falsehoods, misinformation, falsification of reality and anti-Israel propaganda has become a modern day lucrative business. The Merchants are mostly ideologues from the radical left and their political NGOs. The Merchandise is falsehood, deceit, hate and anti-Semitism. The CEOs are mostly Jews In Name Only, who hide behind slogans and clichés such as “occuapation” and “human rights” to spread raw the anti-Semitism around the globe in exchange for hundreds of thousands of Euros per year from hostile/enemy foreign governments and entities. This is what the political NGO that calls itself “Breaking the Silence” (even the name is not original) does. That is how its owners and operative earn their living.

      No one, Ms Yuri Novak, and I mean NO ONE, is persecuting you. In fact ALL ISRAELIS encourage you to “break” your socalled “slicence” and speak out against any wrong the IDF has committed. The Israel Defense Force has DEMANDED and continues to demand that you present- or at least make public the EVIDENCE on which you base the most heinous allegations of war crimes, etc. against honorable men and women who sacrifice their own lives to protect YOU and your families and provide you with the security blanket under which you sleep at night and work during the day doing nothing but smearing, demonizing and delegitimizing them. To date, the BTS has REFUSED to provide such evidence, but chose instead to continue spraeding lies and falsehoods against the Jewish State, the IDF and honorable men and women who did nothing other than use thier own blood to pay for the country Yuri Novak et al. call HOME!

      As a result, “The IDF has reportedly turned to the courts in an effort to force the controversial Breaking the Silence organization to hand over secret testimony by former Israeli soldiers about alleged abuses against Palestinians. According to a report on the NRG website on Friday, the army is demanding testimonies that primarily relate to evidence of alleged war crimes and compliance by IDF troops with illegal orders. The State Prosecutor’s Office — officially acting on behalf of the army as the matter pertains to a civilian organization — has presented a petition to Petah Tikva Magistrate’s Court, NRG said.

      The legal proceedings began after correspondence by the State Prosecutor’s Office, asking Breaking the Silence to submit material to the military prosecutor, so that the army could investigate the claims, NRG reported. The organization refused to hand over the material, and argued that the testimonies are protected by the confidentiality of sources, as is the case with journalists’ sources. The State Prosecution said in response that some of the material could be presented in such a way as to protect the sources, but Breaking the Silence declined to respond. NRG quoted military officials familiar with the case as saying that the army views the issue very seriously, and if necessary, will take the matter to a higher court.

      “It is very strange that people who say they know about these crimes are not ready to reveal who committed them,” NRG quoted a military source as saying. “It is as if a person claimed to know about a murder, but would not agree to divulge that information. This is unacceptable behavior, and we demand that Breaking the Silence either reconsider its claims or hand over the details.”
      http://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-petitions-court-for-breaking-the-silence-secret-testimony/

      TRUTH matters, Ms. Novak. Start telling the truth and stop lying!

      Reply to Comment
      • SkyHawk

        Breaking the silence? No, distorting reality

        “Op-ed: The organization of IDF soldiers and veterans isn’t publishing anonymous testimonies about individual cases, but a false testimony about an unbalanced army, an unbalanced state and good people who have turned into monsters. When it was founded by former Nahal soldiers who had served in Hebron, I faced a personal dilemma. “Our good guys” were allegedly seeking to improve our moral foundation, and I was in favor of that. When they explained they were in favor of battle morals, I nodded in agreement. And when they spoke about improving the face of Israeli society, I understood them and found many points of similarity although we voted differently in the elections. And then everything turned upside down. From an Israeli organization, Breaking the Silence turned into an organization operating against the Israel I believe in. It began with anonymous testimonies published abroad without providing a name, an address and a response from the IDF. Then came photo exhibitions and weird partnerships with obviously anti-Israel organizations, and finally superficial interviews around the world about war crimes committed by the IDF as a matter of routine.”
        Read more here: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4739706,00.html

        Reply to Comment
      • Ben

        “Jews In Name Only”

        Eis, to my ear this has a Judeofascist ring to it. Members of a ethnotribalreligious group must all march in lockstep to one political siren song or else they are not “real” members of the tribe? As the man you admire politically, Naftali Bennet, put it, there’s something wrong with their “DNA”? Your thoughts?

        Reply to Comment
        • Gustav

          BEN:”Eis, to my ear this has a Judeofascist ring to it.”

          BEN:”Members of a ethnotribalreligious group must all march in lockstep to one political siren song or else they are not “real” members of the tribe?”

          This is a glaring example of Benny’s hypocrisy. On another thread, he insisted that Ari Shavit, a self confessed Israeli leftist and an acknowledged leftist by other well known leftists such as Sarid, Oz, Beilin and Sternhell, but Benny insisted that Sharit is not a leftist because Sharit did not walk lockstep to the political siren song which Benny considers leftism.

          So Benny-leh, by your statement above you are a fascist. Don’t you agree?

          LOL, of course Benny is likely say “noooo, dat’s different coz I am Benny and what I preach against others, doesn’t apply to me coz I am Benny”.

          Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            This is just confused, Gustav.

            1. Noam Sheizaf cogently argued WHY Shavit, though Shavit may think of himself as center-leftist and others might regard him as vaguely center-leftist, is actually an Israeli neo-conservative. A romantic neo-Zionist. You have not once engaged with this substance. But Noam’s argument is illuminating.

            2. I argue WHY Eis sounds Judeofascist to my ear.

            3. You simply state something: that Ari Shavit is “a self confessed Israeli leftist” (love that “confessed”) and “an acknowledged leftist by other well known leftists.” This is not an argument. Or if it is, it is an argument about nothing. And it is not interesting. It is anti-intellectual and contemptuous of nuance. No one is incontestably something simply because they say they are or others say they are. Please call up Ze’ev Sternhell and ask him and then tell me he disagrees with Sheizaf and says “nope, Shavit’s a leftist that’s all I have to say.” This I gotta see.

            4. If you think Eis–telling people who is a real Jew and who is not, and implying that the criterion is whoever does not break ranks on silence–does not to your ear sound fascist* then argue WHY.

            * “The Italian term fascismo derives from fascio meaning a bundle of rods, ultimately from the Latin word fasces….The symbolism of the fasces suggested strength through unity: a single rod is easily broken, while the bundle is difficult to break.” (Wikipedia)

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            BEN:”This is just confused, Gustav.”

            The only one who is trying to confuse things here Benny, is you.

            There is nothing confusing in what I said. You criticize Eis for an attitude that YOU are more guilty of than she is.

            And that just makes you a hypocrite.

            Reply to Comment
    3. Hannibal

      Breaking The Lies

      Watch this video from a tour of Hebron given by Breaking the Silence spokesman Avner Gvaryahu in 2014. Listen to what he says to a group of foreign tourists:

      https://www.facebook.com/Israel.MyTruth/videos/1572326966339891/

      “And when you shoot this machine gun in an open area, you have about 50 meters to your right and to your left, and you know the radius of this machine gun. It has a massive… you know, about a 50 [meter] radius kill around it. And suddenly you’re shooting that thing there at people, at cars, and this was crazy. But there are orders, and there was a commander, and the radio was like, ‘Come on, come on’, so you shoot.”

      Gvaryahu goes on to describe the situation as being “sorta like a video game” in which “you’re shooting a machine gun on civilians”.

      As seems to be the norm with Breaking the Silence, Gvaryahu takes a statement given by an ex-soldier and twists it completely out of proportion, thoroughly erasing the context and the complex security situation at the time of the events, and instead inserts dubious claims and clear falsehoods.

      To properly understand the correct context of any given testimony, it is vital to recall the time-period of the testimony. This particular description is based upon an statement and video (which Breaking the Silence shared) dates back to 2001. Hebron in 2001 was not like Hebron of 2015.

      The Hebron of 2011 was a much scarier, more dangerous place. The early 2000s marked the beginning of the second Intifada, years in which Hebron was a bastion of terror and the source of countless murder attacks aimed at soldiers, local residents and at Israeli citizens alike. In one particularly horrific incident in March 2001, a one year-old baby girl called Shalhevet Pass was deliberately murdered when she was shot by a sniper from the neighbourhood of Abu Sneinah. Another attack, an ambush in 2002 on “Worshippers Way”, an alley that takes Jewish pilgrims to the biblical Tomb of the Patriarchs, murdered 12 soldiers and emergency response team members. Make no mistake, Hebron back then was a dangerous place.

      By retelling a story from almost 15 years ago as if it happened recently, Gvaryahu is lying. First, the attempt to describe the event from 2001 as a daily event is infuriating and an insult to the truth. Second, grenade launchers of the type he’s describing have a kill radius of 8 meters and a wound radius of 16 meters. 50 meter kill radius? Indiscriminate and reckless fire on civilians and automobiles? Utter nonsense! Israeli soldiers are never told to deliberately fire on innocent civilians. That’s a clear misrepresentation of the chain of command: All such shooting is aimed specifically at the positions of known terrorists and precise targets which are received from intelligence units, scouts and look-outs.

      Gvaryahu conveniently forgets to mention that the shooting took place at a time when soldiers and local residents were being targeted by sniping attacks, IEDs and gunfire. Sometimes, to our deep regret, mistakes occur and civilians are hurt by accident. But the attempt to portray a reckless method of injuring civilians on a regular basis can only be described as an absolute lie.

      Instead of providing a reliable, balanced tour of Hebron and its complexities, Breaking the Silence knowingly fools foreign audiences who are not familiar with the daily reality and the local history of Hebron. Shame on Gvaryahu and Breaking the Silence for deceiving others by spreading a distorted version of reality and omitting a number of crucial facts.

      Video Credit: Amit Deri”

      Reply to Comment
      • Ben

        Love the faux-military expertise and faux-battleground level “in the know” posturing by someone who fires these potshots under cover of anonymity. And has probably spent zero time on the ground either in battle or as an occupying troop. Unlike any member of Breaking the Silence. There’s nothing like true authority. And nothing is so glaring as the lack of it.

        Reply to Comment
    4. Ben

      “This method, directly out of the playbook of non-democratic regimes, is meant to sow fear and suspicion among activists, and thus to destroy the anti-occupation community from within.”

      Recalls Soviet-occupied Eastern Europe.

      Reply to Comment
      • Gustav

        The Soviets were leftists like you Benny. Stop using them as something to hit right wingers across the head with. YOU are like the Soviets not us. The Soviets actually hated Israel.

        Reply to Comment
        • Ben

          To call the Soviets “leftist” is like calling ISIS “Islamic.” Or the National Socialists “socialist.” It’s like calling Bernie Sanders “a Stalinist.” It’s like…oh, you get the point.

          Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            BEN:”To call the Soviets “leftist” is like calling ISIS “Islamic.” Or the National Socialists “socialist.” It’s like calling Bernie Sanders “a Stalinist.” It’s like…oh, you get the point.”

            Yeah I get the point. I get the point that you are a hypocrite, Benny…

            You accused Eis of being a fascist because you perceived her to be trying to exclude some Jews from Judaism on the basis of her idea of what Judaism is….

            Yet here you are doing the same thing to ISIS who fight for Islam, the Soviets who were implementing Communism. Are you saying that someone who tries to implement communism is not leftist? Or someone who fights for the glory of Islam is not Muslim?

            You are single handedly trying to define what is Islam and what is leftism. Not only are you a hypocrite but by your own logic you are a fascist, Benny.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            I’m calling ISIS Islamofascists? You betcha.

            “You are single handedly trying to define what is Islam and what is leftism.”

            Oh yes and I’m also singlehandedly offering my unified field theory of electromagnetism, quantum theory and General Relativity. And a synthesis of Heideggerian Dasein analysis, Marxist dialectical materialism and Hegelian metaphysics.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Like I said, Benny, you are a hypocrite…

            You called EIS a fascist for excluding some views from being part of Judaism.

            Here, you are excluding ISIS who fight for the glory of Islam from Islam.

            Are you Muslim, Benny? On what basis do you exclude some Muslims (ISIS) from Islam? Based on your fascism? Hey don’t blame me for calling you fascist. I am just using YOUR “logic”, Benny darling.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            First of all pal, I was being gentle with Eis by telling her that calling the leaders of Breaking the Silence “Jews in Name Only” sounded Judeofascist to my ear. In fact, to my ear Eis coupled that charge to gross anti-Semitic slander, repeating the essence of the script of the settlers’ infamous Herr Stürmer video, which has been called the most anti-Semitic video ever made:

            “The CEOs are mostly Jews In Name Only, who hide behind slogans and clichés such as “occuapation” and “human rights” to spread raw the anti-Semitism around the globe in exchange for hundreds of thousands of Euros per year from hostile/enemy foreign governments and entities. This is what the political NGO that calls itself “Breaking the Silence” (even the name is not original) does. That is how its owners and operative earn their living.”

            So don’t you dare lecture me on any of this business, Gustav. You have no idea of what you are doing.

            Now as for “excluding ISIS from Islam” just how do you arrive at that nonsense? Calling ISIS Islamofascist excludes it from Islam? Saying something someone said rings Judeofascist to my ear excludes that someone from Judaism? Please explain. You’ve lost me. I’ve excluded ISIS from Islam? I’ve excluded Eis from Judaism? I’ve excluded Benzti Gopstein from Judaism? I have?

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            To quote someone more famous than you, Benny-leh…

            “The lady doth protest too much, methinks”

            You have said what you said. You have demonstrated what a hypocrite you are, take it like a man, Benny-leh. Or are you a lady? Oh, I know, it depends which pseudonym you post under.

            Never mind. When you pose as a man I’ll treat you as such and when you post as a … ah never mind… LOL.

            Reply to Comment
    5. Ben

      What none among the Sticky Slander Brigade and their ancillary Nitpicking Battalions can account for is WHY so many Israel Army soldiers would break ranks like this and spill the beans even though there is zero conventional reward and great punishment and sacrifice attached to doing this. Either Israelis, for mysterious reasons, especially mysterious in a hypernationalist state where people are intensively schooled from birth in patriotism and militaristic valor, harbor among them a statistically extraordinary number of “traitors” out of all proportion to any other modern western army, or something is rotten in the state of “Greater Israel.” Well, something is rotten, and none of the explanations hinted around at here make sense. You folks are casting aspersions upon the bravest, the most admirable, the characterologically strongest. These people of Breaking the Silence are doing what is the hardest thing to do in Israeli society. Anyone wants to see how silly and weirdly off key are the attacks on this page, just actually listen to a Breaking the Silence member like Yehuda Shaul. Just listen and watch. There’s nothing like true authority and nothing is so obvious as the lack of it. Yehuda is the real deal, and great to watch ==>

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JxHE4KrLvj0

      Reply to Comment
      • Whonoze

        Still peddling the same debunked Bts-slanders YOU could NOT even defend, Achmed? ALL the claims in the video you posted are MADE-UP by Yehuda Shaul/Bts-operatives who use Idf-operations to create their own LIES and SLANDERS. We will take ALL the claims one-by-one, step by step to once again demonstrate that they are all MADE-UP and what a gullible fool you are. Here are just the first opening 4-questions:

        Case 1
        In the video you posted, Yehuda Shaul claimed that the IDF (a) assassinates people it can arrest (b) in order to “leave greater impact on the board” and (b) “just for revenge”. He claims (c) that “in the peak of the second intifada there were a couple of revenge attacks that the Israeli army carried out. For example, if I am not mistaken, it was in February 19..2…2002….there was an attack on Idf-checkpoint near Ramallah in a Palestinian village…; six engineer soldiers were killed. The following night three different special forces unit were sent to revenge. The Orders were very clear: 2:00 O’clock at night, Palestinian police checkpoints, anyone at the checkpoint is doomed to die, uniform, not uniform, doesn’t matter, armed not armed….at the end of the evening 15 Palestinian policeman are killed” (…).

        QUESTIONS

        1. Who specifically gave the Orders Yehuda Shaul claimes was given?

        2. To whom specifically was the Order given?

        3. Yehuda Shau claims that “the Orders were very clear: 2:00 O’clock at night, Palestinian police checkpoints, anyone at the checkpoint is doomed to die, uniform, not uniform, doesn’t matter, armed not armed….at the end of the evening 15 Palestinian policeman are killed”. What is the SOURCE for that claim?

        4. If Yehuda Shaul (a) does NOT know who gave the Order he claims was given, (b) does NOT know to who that Order was given and (c) CANNOT provide the SOURCE for the Order he claims was given, the obvious conclusion is that the whole story was MADE-UP, is it not?

        Pls. answer ONLY the questions!

        We are waiting……

        Reply to Comment
        • Carmen

          “We are waiting”…..
          Instead of waiting, you could try asking Yehuda Shaul yourself as I don’t think Ben was with him! Bwwaaaahhhaaahhaaaahhhaaaahhhaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          Reply to Comment
          • Whonoze

            Obfuscating again, Ben? Amazing! There you have your answer, folks: neither Bts nor those who parrot the LIES and SLANDERS of Bts are able to defend any single FALSE claim they parrot to smear and demonize the Idf and Israeli soldiers. Ben is ON the RUN – yet again, while posing as a woman – in this case “Carmen” to sneak away. Ben’s other woman-aliases include “Eliza”, “Lauren”, etc.

            Hey Ben, ya need a blond-wig, a red lipstick, a skirt and a thong to provide yourself a perfect camouflage to sneak out as a woman from the jaws of death. You will also have to shave off your jihadi-beard. ROFLMAO …. jihaid-fool!

            Reply to Comment
          • carmen

            Ben is using multiple identities, huh? Again, I think you need that fantasy due to the fragile state of your mental health. Anyway, at any given moment you, Gustav, Ginger, et al, sound exactly the same and that being a beast masquerading as a human being. Much the same can be said for the 95% of israelis who were in favor of the 2014 bombardment of Gaza, resulting in the murder of +500 children. And of course the continued extrajudicial executions occuring on an almost daily basis since October 2015.

            Video: Israeli police continue firing after Palestinian attacker is incapacitated -See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2016/02/video-israeli-police-continue-firing-after-palestinian-attacker-is-incapacitated/#sthash.vdAe8Erz.dpuf

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            CARMEN:”Video: Israeli police continue firing after Palestinian attacker is incapacitated”

            Awww, de poow, poow pawestinian attacker. He wasn’t allowed to finish his mission of murdering more Juden.

            Carmen lives in a parallel universe in which one should feel sorry for perpetrators or ‘would be’ perpetrators of random acts of butchery against civilians, men, women, children, young and old, instead of their victims.

            Why? Coz according to our bitchy little Carmen, Arabs have a licence to murder Israeli Jews who have no right to defend themselves.

            Reply to Comment
          • Carmen

            You’ve deliberately missed the point and are attempt to mislead. Unless of course you’re as daft as feckless leader. My point with the video was obvious. This man was no longer a threat but was riddled with bullets by police who were scared shitless and in their panicked state also shot and injured an innocent bystander, as is frequently the case. This man should have been arrested, but was tried and executed in a heartbeat by neanderthal knuckle-dragging nincompoops who are so strong while shooting to death teenage girls and boys, young men and women and innocent bystanders. If the playing field was a level one, how quick they’d run back home screaming “emah, emah!”.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            CARMEN:”You’ve deliberately missed the point and are attempt to mislead.”

            I missed no point, darling.

            CARMEN:”Unless of course you’re as daft as feckless leader.”

            Which would still make me a genius compared to you, darling.

            CARMEN:”My point with the video was obvious.”

            Yep, indeed it was obvious. You were doing your usual vilification job on us.

            CARMEN:”This man was no longer a threat but was riddled with bullets by police”

            Such men, no, correction, beasts, are always a threat as long as they are alive.

            CARMEN:”who were scared shitless”

            Really? You are now an expert on who is scared?

            CARMEN:”and in their panicked state also shot and injured an innocent bystander, as is frequently the case.”

            Oh well, such things do happen. I blame the mindless butcher who triggered this incident.

            CARMEN:”This man should have been arrested, but was tried and executed in a heartbeat …”

            Yea? Because his only crime was to try to butcher Juden? I know our lives are cheap for people like you. One wonders though what your reaction would be if a similar moron would try to butcher you, your mother, your kids or others whom YOU love?

            CARMEN:”by neanderthal knuckle-dragging nincompoops … Blah blah blah …”

            Take your medications, deary.

            Reply to Comment
          • Whonoze

            Ben is still ON-THE-RUN

            Those questions remain UNANSWERED!

            In case you missed the questions, here are the questions again:

            QUESTIONS

            1. Who specifically gave the Orders Yehuda Shaul claimes were given?

            2. To whom specifically was the Orders given?

            3. Yehuda Shau claims that “the Orders were very clear: 2:00 O’clock at night, Palestinian police checkpoints, anyone at the checkpoint is doomed to die, uniform, not uniform, doesn’t matter, armed not armed….at the end of the evening 15 Palestinian policeman are killed”. What is the SOURCE for that claim?

            4. If Yehuda Shaul (a) does NOT know who gave the Orders he claims were given, (b) does NOT know to whom those Orders were given and (c) have NO SOURCE for the Orders he claims were given, the obvious conclusion is that the whole story was MADE-UP, is it not?

            Pls. answer ONLY the questions!

            We are waiting……

            Reply to Comment
      • Gustav

        This is how Benny reacted to my comment about the reason why we want a Jewish majority state…

        BEN:”out comes the sad sounding violin and that plaintive golden oldie about 2000 years of Jewish suffering, in D flat major and F minor, it gets played and we are all supposed to step back and say ‘whoah’ and feel the pain”

        But he wants us to feel sympathy for a people who have been fighting a 100 year war against us, who don’t play by any rules and make a fetish out of trying to murder Jewish Israeli civilians wherever and whenever they can, even before there was occupation.

        Benny is just a dime a dozen, Jew hating hypocritical propagandist.

        Reply to Comment
        • Ben

          So interesting how you do this. This is really just a classic manipulative editing job. It’s very sneaky. Let’s restore the entire quotation and it’s context. My comment was not a reply to your “comment about the reason why we want a Jewish majority state,” it was a reply to your justifying a cruel occupation and creeping annexation by coldly dismissing Palestinian needs as merely “a little Palestinian statelet.” It was a reply to your using a genuine 2000 years of oppression un-genuinely–using it as an intimidation tactic and an excuse to oppress others. And to that end you said I should regard you as “stubborn, ruthless, but pragmatic.” In that context I replied to you as follows:

          A stock hasbara song. The settlers on the hilltops and the outposts are anything but pragmatic. Ariel and East Jerusalem are anything but pragmatic. They are logistical and security nightmares that drain enormous resources from you the taxpayer and citizen and compromise your soul. Whenever one brings up the gratuitous cruelty and covetousness out comes the sad sounding violin and that plaintive golden oldie about 2000 years of Jewish suffering, in D flat major and F minor, it gets played and we are all supposed to step back and say ‘whoah’ and feel the pain and say of course the occupation is so understandable look at how we suffered. This is a form of manipulation, of emotive distraction that the suffering we cause the Palestinians doesn’t count. Nobody feels pain like we do and those animals certainly don’t feel pain like we do. It’s is racist and supremacist at its core. A very ugly business.

          Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            You are lying again Benny. Nowhere did I use our 2000 year persecution as an excuse for not offering Palestinian Arabs a statelet. I am FOR the two state solution but not before your Arabs stop their violence and sign a peace deal with us.

            So my comment about this quote of yours stands…

            BEN:”out comes the sad sounding violin and that plaintive golden oldie about 2000 years of Jewish suffering, in D flat major and F minor, it gets played and we are all supposed to step back and say ‘whoah’ and feel the pain”

            You made this comment in response to my post out of nowhere. I only talk about the 2000 year old persecution of Jews in order to justify our determination of wanting a Jewish majority state. So you could have only made your comment in response to that. Otherwise, once again you are attempting to put words into MY mouth which I did not say. Comments that you attribute to a stereotype that you believe I should be…

            Your own comment damns you Benny. You are insensitive, cold and unsympathetic to Jewish suffering yet you demand that we MUST be sympathetic to a group of people who have been our deadly enemy for nearly 100 years and many of whom promised to finish the job that was attempted with the Holocaust.

            At the least that makes you a cold insensitive hypocrite Benny. And at worst, a Jew hating racist. You know what, Benny? I don’t care which is it. Either way, you are an obnoxious and compulsive liar.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            This is remarkably hysterical and manipulative. I’m happy to let what I actually wrote tell the story. The topic here is: Persecution of Breaking the Silence. Lest we forget.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            The only one who is hysterical and manipulative is you Bennyleh.

            Oh and you are a hypocrite and a racist too.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            The only one who is hysterical and manipulative is you Bennyleh.

            Oh and you are a hypocrite and a liar too.

            Reply to Comment
    6. Carmen

      I wasn’t able to post this with the article about the walls and Donald Trump, so am trying here, just because I want to and will continue to as long as I’m allowed.

      People will often minimize or outright lie about the brutality they suffered because of the fear of reprisals against themselves or their loved ones. It’s hardly rocket science. During the great depression, in america there was a program by the WPA (works progress administration) to collect ‘slave narratives’. These narratives were collected (ironically) by southern volunteers interviewing former slaves in the american south. Many ‘recollected’ that slavery wasn’t so bad, master was good, etc. And there were those who fervently prayed their former masters were burning in hell, recalled their food being thrown into feeding troughs like those of the animals, the rapes, the whippings, lynchings, etc. Obviously those who told the truthful narrative weren’t afraid of anyone. The 1:45 video posted by G is like a slave narrative, the one told in terms that wouldn’t offend the questioner or put him or herself in danger, remote as it might be, so in other words, telling the questioner what they want to hear, nothing but sugar-coated crap that obviously follows the zionist revisionist historical lie. No so here:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx8oPZTms4A&feature=player_detailpage
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUDh-jTa3Go&feature=player_detailpage
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIWvcBzbqVc&feature=player_detailpage

      or read here: ספרים עיון
      סיפורה של שבירת שתיקה בת 68 שנים

      בסוף 1948 מישהו ושמו ש’ קפלן כתב לעורך “על המשמר” עדות ששמע מחייל על מעשי זוועה שנעשו לתושבי הכפר הערבי דווימה בעת מלחמת העצמאות
      07.02.2016 12:45

      and English here: ‘Barbarism by an educated and cultured people’ — Dawayima massacre was worse than Deir Yassin
      Israel/Palestine
      Jonathan Ofir – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2016/02/barbarism-by-an-educated-and-cultured-people-dawayima-massacre-was-worse-than-deir-yassin/#sthash.eA0Z7Ld0.dpuf

      “The occupation is not just the domain of the government, the army and the security organizations. Everything is tainted, the institutions of justice and law, the physicians who remain silent while medical treatment is prevented in the territories; the teachers who do not protest against the closing of educational institutions and the prevention of free movement of their peers; the journalists who do not report; the writers and artists who remain silent; the architects and engineers who lend a hand to the occupation’s enterprises – the settlements and the fence, the barriers and bypass roads; and also the university lecturers, who do nothing for their imprisoned colleagues in the territories, but instead conduct special study programs for the security forces. If all these people were to boycott the occupation, there would be no need for an international boycott. The world sees a great and ongoing injustice. Should the world remain silent? This is not, of course, the only injustice in the world, nor is it the most terrible. But does that make it any less necessary to act against it? It is easy to exempt ourselves from our moral responsibility and attribute, as usual, any criticism to anti-Semitism. And there indeed may be some elements of anti-Semitism among those call for the boycott. But also among them are groups, and individuals, including quite a few Jews, for whom Israel is close to their hearts, people who want a just Israel, who see an Israel that occupies and is clearly unjust, and who believe they should do something. We should thank them for this from the bottom of our hearts”. Gideon Levy, The Punishment of Gaza, Chapter 1, A Just Boycott.

      This post is a bit off the topic of walls, but I hope the moderators will allow.

      Reply to Comment
      • Whonoze

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gl-HzgpMBo

        The wall is there to prevent you and the beasts like the one in that video from coming to Israel and slaughtering our people. That beast is from Hamas.

        The wall is there to keep the beasts of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, PFLP and other terrorist organizations OUT of the Jewish State. Copying and pasting what other people wrote elsewhere will not change that. So, feel free to plagiarize other peoples, moron.

        Am Yisrael Chai!

        Reply to Comment
        • Carmen

          ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz

          Reply to Comment
        • Gustav

          CARMEN:”The 1:45 video posted by G is like a slave narrative, the one told in terms that wouldn’t offend the questioner or put him or herself in danger, remote as it might be, so in other words, telling the questioner what they want to hear, nothing but sugar-coated crap that obviously follows the zionist revisionist historical lie.”

          LOL, poor old Carmen, I was wondering what type of spin she will come up with to explain the BBC video which I posted on the other thread. Here it is again…

          http://youtu.be/72Ata-hY9WQ

          Two of the main Arab characters who appeared on that video and who told things as they were and contradicted conventional Arab and revisionist leftist propaganda, who were they? Where do they live? Let’s see…

          The old man, lives in Jordan…

          Hazem Zaki Nuseibeh also spelled Nusseibehand Nusaybah (born 6 May 1922) is a Jordanian politician and diplomat of Palestiniandescent. He is a member of the old Nuseibeh family.[1] During his career for the Jordanian administration.

          And the video was prepared by the BBC. Now Carmen, are you going to claim that the BBC sympathises with us Zionists?

          PS
          Carmen’s quaint habit of referring to me as G is too funny. Whatsa matta, Carmen dear? Were you afraid that if you refer to me by “Gustav” I might see your post, I’d respond and make a fool of you again? You were hoping that I’d miss your post and your crap would be allowed to stand? LOL. Guess what, I saw your post anyways and I have made a fool of you once more…

          Yea, the Arabs are so afraid of us that they say what we tell them to say even if they live in Jordan and the BBC are just Zionist tools according our idiotic Carmen.

          To the moderators…

          Seeing you allowed CARMEN to post her off topic post here, which was her response to my post on another thread, I hope, you will also post my response to her here now (this is my third attempt to do so).

          Reply to Comment
      • Gustav

        CARMEN:”The 1:45 video posted by G is like a slave narrative, the one told in terms that wouldn’t offend the questioner or put him or herself in danger, remote as it might be, so in other words, telling the questioner what they want to hear, nothing but sugar-coated crap that obviously follows the zionist revisionist historical lie.”

        LOL, poor old Carmen, I was wondering what type of spin she will come up with to explain the BBC video which I posted on the other thread. Here it is again…

        http://youtu.be/72Ata-hY9WQ

        Two of the main Arab characters who appeared on that video and who told things as they were and contradicted conventional Arab and revisionist leftist propaganda, who were they? Where do they live? Let’s see…

        The old man, lives in Jordan…

        Hazem Zaki Nuseibeh also spelled Nusseibehand Nusaybah (born 6 May 1922) is a Jordanian politician and diplomat of Palestiniandescent. He is a member of the old Nuseibeh family.[1] During his career for the Jordanian administration.

        And the video was prepared by the BBC. Now Carmen, are you going to claim that the BBC sympathises with us Zionists?

        PS
        Carmen’s quaint habit of referring to me as G is too funny. Whatsa matta, Carmen dear? Were you afraid that if you refer to me by “Gustav” I might see your post, I’d respond and make a fool of you? You were hoping that I’d miss your post and your crap would be allowed to stand? LOL. Guess what, I saw your post anyways and I have made a fool of you again…

        Yea, the Arabs are so afraid of us that they say what we tell them to say even if they live in Jordan and the BBC are just Zionist tools according our idiotic Carmen.

        Reply to Comment
        • carmen

          And the Mossad/Shabak/zionist state doesn’t occasionally venture out of zioland and murder abroad. I haven’t changed any subjects or told any lies. I haven’t tried to hide from you GPG – that’s your wife’s lot in life. Your remark about the UN post wrt Palestinians’ right to rebel against their occupation? Where were you going with that? I know, no place. And yeah, there are very, very few news outlets that are not in the habit of fellating the zionist state so I’m not impressed by a BBC production. As far as your other posts? It must be paying gig for you to be so prolific. The only person you make a fool out of, GPG, is the mug you have the misfortune to face in your mirror. However, your grandiosity and is especially entertaining when you take off your ass hat and put on the pointy ‘diplomat’ hat and lay out your terms for peace. Bwwahhhaahhhaaahhaaaahaaaaa!!!!

          About the ‘deary/dearie/dear’ bit. It sounds like a stereotypical old lady saying but it also sounds Oscar Wilde-ish/Perez Hilton-ish since you use that so much with male posters. Maybe you should rethink that GPG. And as for calling me a bitch in your posts – it’s disturbing that you are so comfortable with that and it makes me feel very sorry for any females under your radar. Creep.

          Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Thank you darling, you are helping me illustrate how unhinged you are. Every additional post of yours confirms it…

            DR. HAZEM ZAKI Nuseibeh, Minister of Jordan’s Foreign Affairs is afraid what Israel might do to him if he does not parrot what Zionists want him to say?

            And the BBC who made the video are Zionist stooges?

            Yea, Carmen deary, and there are little green men from mars here on a mission to suck out that non existent brain of yours with little green straws. LOL.

            Reply to Comment
          • Carmen

            “DR. HAZEM ZAKI Nuseibeh, Minister of Jordan’s Foreign Affairs is afraid what Israel might do to him if he does not parrot what Zionists want him to say?”

            Those are your words. Not what I said or implied at all.

            “And the BBC who made the video are Zionist stooges?”

            Those are your words. Not what I said or implied at all.

            “Yea, Carmen deary, and there are little green men from mars here on a mission to suck out that non existent brain of yours with little green straws. LOL.”

            I don’t know what you’re talking about. Do you even?

            “Thank you darling, you are helping me illustrate how unhinged you are. Every additional post of yours confirms it…”

            I have not nor will ever help you. That coming from the man/woman/whatever who believes there are green men from mars.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            GUSTAV:”DR. HAZEM ZAKI Nuseibeh, Minister of Jordan’s Foreign Affairs is afraid what Israel might do to him if he does not parrot what Zionists want him to say?”

            CARMEN:”Those are your words. Not what I said or implied at all.”

            Poor Carmen, Benny-ishly, when she is cornered she just gets into denial mode. Here, I will quote your own words at you…

            CARMEN:”The 1:45 video posted by G is like a slave narrative, the one told in terms that wouldn’t offend the questioner or put him or herself in danger, remote as it might be, so in other words, telling the questioner what they want to hear, nothing but sugar-coated crap that obviously follows the zionist revisionist historical lie.”

            DR. HAZEM ZAKI was one of the main speakers in that BBC video which I posted, so what did you mean when you described him as using “slave narrative”, “wouldn’t offend the questioner”, “put him in danger”?

            Oh and what did you mean when you said this in your later post….?

            CARMEN:”And the Mossad/Shabak/zionist state doesn’t occasionally venture out of zioland and murder abroad. ”

            Or this?

            CARMEN:”there are very, very few news outlets that are not in the habit of fellating the zionist state so I’m not impressed by a BBC”

            But then contradicting yourself again…

            GUSTAV:“And the BBC who made the video are Zionist stooges?”
            …to which you responded thus…

            CARMEN:”Those are your words. Not what I said or implied at all.”

            There you have it folks. This is the mentality that Israel is up against when we have any attempt at discussing the mess that the Arabs turned the Middle East into. Discussing it with them and their trained puppies like Carmen….

            Reply to Comment
          • carmen

            I haven’t contradicted myself. I won’t abide you changing any text of what I say to help you out. You’re perfectly capable of making an ass out of yourself without any help at all.

            Gustav: “DR. HAZEM ZAKI was one of the main speakers in that BBC video which I posted, so what did you mean when you described him as using “slave narrative”, “wouldn’t offend the questioner”, “put him in danger”?

            Gustav: “Oh and what did you mean when you said this in your later post….?”

            CARMEN:”And the Mossad/Shabak/zionist state doesn’t occasionally venture out of zioland and murder abroad.”

            I mean the man in that 1:45 minute opus may be in Jordan, he could even be in Cairo, Illinois or Paris, Texas for all we know, but that’s well within the reach of Mossad/Shabak/zionist state assasins. So he has much to fear, for himself and his family. Everyone knows how much israel loves collective punishment. Duh.

            Or this?

            CARMEN:”there are very, very few news outlets that are not in the habit of fellating the zionist state so I’m not impressed by a BBC”

            But then contradicting yourself again…

            GUSTAV:“And the BBC who made the video are Zionist stooges?”
            …to which you responded thus…

            CARMEN:”Those are your words. Not what I said or implied at all.”

            You say ‘zionist stooges’ and I said ‘there are very, very few news outlets that are not in the habit of fellating the zionist state’. So Gustav, I stand with what I said and that’s what you call contradicting myself? It’s no wonder then you all claim you’ve ‘made a fool out of someone’ or you’ve got someone ‘ON THE RUN!’ because they won’t play by your terms which are: I know you said “this”, but I’m changing it to “that” because it helps me try to make a point! This is the mentality that anyone is up against when attempting any kind of discussion regarding Palestine. Or even the weather or the time of day.

            ‘There you have it folks’. Seriously? You sound like some vintage commercial for laxatives or hemorroid cream. Do you actually think there are people waiting for your final analysis (or anyone’s in the comment section) with bated breath? This is more your speed:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DH7qq7OjJO8

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            CARMEN:”I haven’t contradicted myself. I won’t abide you changing any text of what I say to help you out.”

            GUSTAV:“And the BBC who made the video are Zionist stooges?”

            CARMEN:”there are very, very few news outlets that are not in the habit of fellating the zionist state so I’m not impressed by a BBC”

            I put words int Carmen’s mouth when I sarcastically asked her whether the BBC broadcasting organisation are Zionist stooges?

            Carmen then certainly lumped the BBC with most news outlets whom she claimed are fellating the Zionist state…

            But Carmen does not think that my words are equivalent to the words she is using. LOL. But ok….

            Now then since she seems to deny that the BBC are just Zionist stooges, I go back to the original question that I put to Carmen…

            How does Carmen explain the contents of the BBC video in which Arabs, including a prominent Jordanian leader, admit that Arab propaganda and scare mongering caused Palestinian Arabs to flee en masse from Palestine, mmmmmm? Carmen?

            Reply to Comment
          • Carmen

            FFS.
            GUSTAV: “I put words int Carmen’s mouth when I sarcastically asked her whether the BBC broadcasting organisation are Zionist stooges?”

            Now you claim you were sarcastic, huh? And I’m supposed to know because? You sound the same all the f’kin time Gustav. Sorry, I hope I haven’t offended your delicate sensibilities. You’ve proven yourself to never ever be taken seriously, like every other zionist. ‘Well folks’ – look what Palestinians are expected to negotiate with – sheesh.

            GUSTAV: “How does Carmen explain the contents of the BBC video in which Arabs, including a prominent Jordanian leader, admit that Arab propaganda and scare mongering caused Palestinian Arabs to flee en masse from Palestine, mmmmmm? Carmen?”

            Carmen explains like this (I’ll answer the way you queried). Carmen doesn’t get off putting words into people’s mouths. Carmen doesn’t know why this ‘prominent’ Jordanian leader said anything, but Carmen thinks he was playing to his perceived audience. Does Gustav like that? Is Gustav going to send yet another set of questions to Carmen? Gustav sends a pitch from left field, but it’s another foul.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            CARMEN:”Now you claim you were sarcastic, huh? And I’m supposed to know because?”

            Nah, Carmen dear, you ain’t supposed to know nothin’, coz I would say something like “the BBC are Zionist stooges”? LOL. Question, am I being sarcastic now or not?

            CARMEN:”…but Carmen thinks he played to his perceived audience”

            DR. HAZEM ZAKI Nuseibeh, Minister of Jordan’s Foreign Affairs has a Zionist audience? And he is playing for his Zionist audience?

            Poor old Carmen. I think you are unhinged. LOL.

            Then again, you have been cornered. You have been shown to be a fool. And now you have descended into Benny-ish obfuscation mode. That’s what your kind does when you get cornered. I eagerly await your further obfuscation playing on my last sentence, LOL again…

            Reply to Comment
    7. Gustav

      This is why the Palestinian Arabs are subjected to draconian measures by us…

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itamar_attack

      “The Itamar attack,[2] also called the Itamar massacre,[3] was an attack on a Jewish family in the Israeli town of Itamar in Samaria that took place on 11 March 2011, in which five members of the same family were murdered in their beds. The victims were the father Ehud (Udi) Fogel, the mother Ruth Fogel, and three of their six children—Yoav, 11, Elad, 4, and Hadas, the youngest, a three-month-old infant. The infant was decapitated.[4] The settlement of Itamar had been the target of several murderous attacks before these killings.[5]”

      This was just one of thousands of attacks against our civilians by savage Palestinian Arab thugs…

      Reply to Comment
      • Gustav

        Now Benny will attempt his usual schtick. He will attempt to convince everyone that the massacre of the Fogel family by his Arab buddies was a reaction to the occupation.

        The trouble is that he can’t explain why massacres like that were perpetrated against us on and off for 100 years now, even BEFORE there was occupation. How come Benny-leh? Do tell us. I know you won’t because you are dishonest to the very core of your being.

        Benny will never admit to the obvious fact that the occupation started because of Arab violence against us. It continues because of Arab violence and the refusal of Palestinian Arabs to sign a peace deal with us.

        Reply to Comment
        • Ben

          Gustav you’re trying mightily to get us off the point here and into the game of “What about Benny?” No one is interested. Let’s get back on topic:
          Persecution of Breaking the Silence.

          Reply to Comment
          • Whonoze

            Ben, you just ran AWAY from the battle up-thread, you little jihadi-coward. You constantly posts and parrot the SMEARS, LIES and SLANDER of Bts against Israelis on this site and when challenged, you just melt and run away. What an old pathetic little coward you are, Ben!

            Those questions put to YOU remain UNANSWERED!

            In case you missed the questions, here are the questions again:

            QUESTIONS

            1. Who specifically gave the Orders Yehuda Shaul claims were given?

            2. To whom specifically were the Orders given?

            3. Yehuda Shaul claims that “the Orders were very clear: 2:00 O’clock at night, Palestinian police checkpoints, anyone at the checkpoint is doomed to die, uniform, not uniform, doesn’t matter, armed not armed….at the end of the evening 15 Palestinian policeman are killed”. What is the SOURCE for that claim?

            4. If Yehuda Shaul (a) does NOT know who gave the Orders he claims were given, (b) does NOT know to whom those Orders were given and (c) have NO SOURCE for the Orders he claims were given, the obvious conclusion is that the whole story was MADE-UP, is it not?

            Pls. answer ONLY the questions!

            But we will understand if you chose to pose as “Carmen” to continue obfuscating and running away.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            …and that’s Benny’s way of saying:

            “I [Benny] want to talk ONLY about effects. I don’t want to talk about what causes those effects”

            …earth to Benny: you and your cohorts constantly complain about Israeli draconian measures against “your poor Palestinian Arabs”. Why don’t you want to understand that your “poor Palestinian Arabs” are not so innocent…

            … your Palestinian Arabs have perpetrated thousands of similar terrorist acts against us, going back nearly 100 years, before there even was occupation. That’s why the occupation happened and the draconian measures are in place to try and curb their terrorism. I know we are not totally successful but it slows them down.

            Reply to Comment
        • Carmen

          The Fogel family? How does their murder fit anywhere, unless it is, as I suspect more and more, a convenient tragedy to exploit at will, with no remorse on your part by the way, just a carnival huckster’s hurry-hurry-hurry – see all the death and destruction by those arab beasts! Look what we have to put up with! Look at the restraint our boys ‘neutralize’ them arabs (especially after they’re already down on the ground and of no harm to anyone)! It’s convenient and it’s disgusting that you zionist pigs continue to use the deaths of Jews to further your carnage on the Palestinian people with the goal to wipe them out or drive them out so you can steal all of what remains of PALESTINE. You should be ashamed, you, and everyone like you. Disgusting filthy beasts.

          Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            CARMEN:”The Fogel family? How does their murder fit anywhere”

            Are you really this stupid? Or are you just pretending, Carmen you little pig?

            As I said, the massacre of the Fogel family by your thuggish Arab pigs is just one example of the thousands of similar greater or lesser terror acts committed by your thuggish Arab pigs against our civilians, in their quest to make us flee our ancestral homeland and leave it all to them.

            Again… the occupation is the CONSEQUENCE of Arab violence. And the OCCUPATION will continue till that violence is renounced and your Arabs sign a peace deal with us. Get it, you little pig Carmen?

            Reply to Comment
          • carmen

            The hasbarists have been smoking too much of their brand, as they all sound unglued. If Gustav believes he makes the terms of any peace, it’s safe to assume there will be no peace in this region any time soon. Per da Furyer: “Again… the occupation is the CONSEQUENCE of Arab violence. And the OCCUPATION will continue till that violence is renounced and your Arabs sign a peace deal with us. Get it, you little pig Carmen?” Well Porky, (absolutely no creativity on your part at all you ol’ copycat) you can huff and puff all you want, but repeating the same lies about ‘Arab violence’ causing the occupation just doesn’t jive with history, which is readily available to all. Firstly, the intentions of the zionists was to cause unrest in the region – it did. Any violence on the part of Palestinians has been and continues to be met with force unparallel to any Palestinian unrest. It’s rocks versus ‘Merkavas’ and other weapons of mass destruction. The Palestinians are provoked relentlessly by the GoI in order to ‘legitimize’ the actions of the GoI, which, and this part is obviously driving you all crazy, IS NO LONGER SEEN AS LEGITIMATE BY THE REST OF THE WORLD. You, whoever you think you are, will not be part of any negotiations. If you care about israel with more than just the lip service you readily provide here, you should be doing everything you possibly can to let feckless leader know that what he’s been doing so far has done nothing but isolate israel from the civilized world. But I don’t think you care about israel at all. You’re just a land-grabbing spoiled brat, part of the smallest group of the largest welfare recipients in the world.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            CARMEN:”(absolutely no creativity on your part at all you ol’ copycat)”

            What a juvenile bitch. I am copying? Nope. I am just giving you your own filthy language back. As for creativity? LOL, I am not here entertain you. I am here to tell normal people the facts.

            CARMEN:”you can huff and puff all you want, but repeating the same lies about ‘Arab violence’ causing the occupation just doesn’t jive with history,”

            Yes it does. Anyone can google it. In 1967, Israel pleaded with Jordan not to get involved in the war. But King Hussein could not stand up to Nasser (Egypt’s leader in 1967) and Jordan started shelling our side of Jerusalem. Israel then counter attacked and ended up controlling the WB.

            CARMEN:”Firstly, the intentions of the zionists was to cause unrest in the region – it did.”

            Really? In 1947, we were surrounded by 100 million Arabs. The Arab states were independent states and had well equipped armies. In 1948 we had 700,000 Jews in here, many were Holocaust survivors, but we wanted unrest? Who are you trying to fool?

            CARMEN:”Any violence on the part of Palestinians has been and continues to be met with force unparallel to any Palestinian unrest.”

            Are you serious? Is that a real complaint, Carmen dear?

            There should be no violence, period. But if your darling Arabs insist on violence, then we reserve the right to retaliate with whatever amount of violence that is necessary to cool them down from their ardor for violence. Kapish, deary?

            CARMEN:”It’s rocks versus ‘Merkavas’ and other weapons of mass destruction.”

            But there should be no rocks. Then we would not need to respond with whatever force which is necessary for us to stop their violence. Instead, your darling Palestinians should sign a peace deal which includes some of our terms too, not just theirs. After that, your very violent Palestinians would have their own state where they can fight each other, like other Arabs do. And we would then just mind our own business.

            CARMEN:”The Palestinians are provoked relentlessly by the GoI in order to ‘legitimize’ the actions of the GoI”

            So why don’t they sign a peace deal with us so that the occupation of the WB can end? I’ll tell you why. Because our presence in Israel provokes them too. Right deary?

            CARMEN:”which, and this part is obviously driving you all crazy, IS NO LONGER SEEN AS LEGITIMATE BY THE REST OF THE WORLD.”

            The only one who is being driven crazy are people like you because we are here and we are staying. And most of the ordinary people in first world countries are either neutral, or they are sick of hearing about the Middle East, or they side with us. And that drives morons like you even more crazy, deary.

            CARMEN:You, whoever you think you are, will not be part of any negotiations.”

            Neither will one eyed bitches like you. On that score we are even. Moreover, I at least admit that it’s for the better because both of us are more prone to brawling than to making peace. I at least have the introspection to realize that. You on the other hand, wouldn’t even admit that obvious truism. Just look at the language you use. Obviously you were not raised to be a lady. Anyone can see that, No?

            CARMEN:”If you care about israel with more than just the lip service you readily provide here, you should be doing everything you possibly can to let feckless leader know that what he’s been doing so far has done nothing but isolate israel from the civilized world.”

            Why should I tell him what is obviously not true. Our position has been a linear improvement on every front since 1948. If I were you, I would point out that obvious fact to your darling Palestinian Arabs who have always been just the pawns of other Arab states. Europe is lurching to the right as a backlash to Arab terrorism, atrocities and antisocial behavior by Arab immigrants. I won’t go on but I am happier than you ought to be.

            CARMEN:”But I don’t think you care about israel at all. You’re just a land-grabbing spoiled brat”

            LOL. Any other stupid comments, Carmen dear?

            CARMEN:”part of the smallest group of the largest welfare recipients in the world.”

            I think you are confusing us with your Palestinian Arabs, the Afghanis and Iraq. As well as a few other Arab states which I won’t mention

            Reply to Comment
          • Carmen

            “What a juvenile bitch. I am copying? Nope. I am just giving you your own filthy language back. As for creativity? LOL, I am not here entertain you. I am here to tell normal people the facts.”

            My ‘filthy language?’

            You aren’t here to entertain me? That may not be your intention, but it is certainly the end result.

            You’re here to tell ‘normal people the facts’? Wait. Are you here to entertain or not because that was just about the funniest thing you’ve written (today)!

            CARMEN:”Firstly, the intentions of the zionists was to cause unrest in the region –it did.”

            GUstav: ‘Really? In 1947, we were surrounded by 100 million Arabs.’

            What, the brilliant zionists didn’t realize where they were starting shit? All of a sudden in 1947 100 million Arabs showed up out of the blue?

            As for the rest of your script, been there and done that. You’ve demonstrated what I have assumed for a while now. You don’t really care about ‘israel’ or the Jewish people, but are only invested in the demonization and destruction of Palestine and Palestinians. It seems to makes you very angry when people, especially your fellow Jews (as in BTS) expose the lies and the criminality perpetrated by the zionist enterprise. You offer nothing new and no solutions, except that Palestinians must submit and be satisfied being non-persons in the ‘jewish’ state. As if you would somewhere else.

            Reply to Comment
          • Carmen

            “There should be no violence, period. But if your darling Arabs insist on violence, then we reserve the right to retaliate with whatever amount of violence that is necessary to cool them down from their ardor for violence. Kapish, deary?”

            Well Granny G (‘deary’ is old lady speak, or at least caraciture old lady speak), let’s get something clear. I don’t own any Arabs, darling or otherwise. According to the UN (and this is old as the hills you live on):
            ‘Palestinians are a people under occupation who has the right to self-determination under the UN Charter, the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in Accordance with the Charter of the United Nations from 1970, and Article 1 of both the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

            The right to self-determination: Palestinians possess a specific history in an identifiable territory, a distinct culture, and a will and capability to gain self-governance.

            The right to self-determination was acknowledged by the international community in UN General Assembly Resolution 181 of 29 November 1947, and recently by the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in its Advisory Opinion on the Wall (section 118). The ICJ stated that: “…construction, along with measures taken previously, thus severely impedes the exercise by the Palestinian people of its right to self‑determination, and is therefore a breach of Israel’s obligation to respect that right” (section 122).

            “UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon commented Tuesday on the recent wave of violence between Israelis and Palestinians, saying it was part of “human nature” to react to an occupation.

            Addressing the UN Security Council’s periodic Middle East debate, Ban condemned rocket fire from militant groups in Gaza into Israel and called for an end to incitement, but said that “As oppressed peoples have demonstrated throughout the ages, it is human nature to react to occupation.”

            As I stated before but it hasn’t shown up – israel’s heavyhanded response to Palestinians demonstrating, resisting and living and breathing (which is their right, as above) goes far beyond what would be necessary to deter violence; emptying a magazine into a 13-year-old scissor wielding Palestinian girl is terrible PR.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            CARMEN:”My ‘filthy language?’”

            Yep.

            CARMEN:”You aren’t here to entertain me? That may not be your intention, but it is certainly the end result.”

            I don’t know your chronological age deary but your mental age is 3 if what I say to you entertains you.

            CARMEN:”You’re here to tell ‘normal people the facts’? Wait. Are you here to entertain or not because that was just about the funniest thing you’ve written (today)!”

            That’s because you are not normal.

            CARMEN:”Firstly, the intentions of the zionists was to cause unrest in the region –it did.”

            GUSTAV:”Really? In 1947, we were surrounded by 100 million Arabs. The Arab states were independent states and had well equipped armies. In 1948 we had 700,000 Jews in here, many were Holocaust survivors, but we wanted unrest? Who are you trying to fool? ”

            CARMEN:”What, the brilliant zionists didn’t realize where they were starting shit? All of a sudden in 1947 100 million Arabs showed up out of the blue?”

            Changing the subject, huh? This is a favorite tactic of Arab apologists like you when your lies are exposed.

            CARMEN:”As for the rest of your script, been there and done that. You’ve demonstrated what I have assumed for a while now. You don’t really care about ‘israel’ or the Jewish people”

            I don’t? If you say so deary…

            CARMEN:”but are only invested in the demonization and destruction of Palestine and Palestinians.”

            Not really. I would rather live along side of them as peaceful nighbors. Unless of course they, and morons like you, do to us what you accuse me of doing to them. Then the gloves come off.

            CARMEN:”It seems to makes you very angry when people, especially your fellow Jews (as in BTS)”

            What? Are you claiming that BTS are fellow Jews? LOL.

            CARMEN:”expose the lies and the criminality perpetrated by the zionist enterprise.”

            I counter the lies of propagandists like you with truth. Moreover, unlike you, I put things in context and I back up my claims, and that makes YOU angry deary.

            CARMEN:”You offer nothing new and no solutions, except that Palestinians must submit and be satisfied being non-persons in the ‘jewish’ state. ”

            Poor poor, Carmen. She hasn’t been listening. Benny-ishly, she just talks but does not listen. She talks to straw men, steretypes which she sets up and then knocks down.

            I repeat. My proposed solution is that the Palestinian Arabs should …

            1. Stop their violence.

            2. Sign a peace deal with us which contains our terms too, not just theirs.

            3. The occupation of the WB will then end and the Palestinian Arabs can have their own Muslim state (the 23rd Arab state) in part of the land which used to be our ancestral homeland way before the Arab invasion in the sixth century.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            CARMEN:”Well Granny G (‘deary’ is old lady speak, or at least caraciture old lady speak)”

            Well, Carmen dear, you could be a granny for all I know.

            CARMEN:”let’s get something clear.”

            You will never get anything clear, Carmen dear.

            CARMEN:”I don’t own any Arabs, darling or otherwise.”

            But they seem to own you…

            CARMEN:”According to the UN (and this is old as the hills you live on)….blah blah blah…”

            You mean the same UN which the Arabs ignored in 1947 when the UN voted (UN GA Resolution 181) to partition the British mandate into a Jewish state and an Arab state? But which your Arabs rejected waged war against us instead? The same UN, deary?

            I love Arab apologists like you deary. Apologists who quote the UN when it suits them but reject or ignore it when it doesn’t tow their party line. Hypocrites.

            Reply to Comment
          • carmen

            “Obviously you were not raised to be a lady. Anyone can see that, No?” Thanks for clearing up for me once and for all what you are.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            No darling, it is impossible to make anything clear to you. You have a rock for a head. You have hardened your pea brain to reality and you don’t allow reality to shatter your illusions.

            Reply to Comment
    8. Whonoze

      Breaking the Silence = Lies, slander and blood-libel

      Ben posted this video clip https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JxHE4KrLvj0 containing Bts’ LIES, BLOOD LIBEL and SLANDERS against the Idf and Israeli soldiers.

      Ben then says to Gustav: “you’re trying mightily to get us off the point here and into the game of “What about Benny?” No one is interested. Let’s get back on topic: Persecution of Breaking the Silence”.

      But when Ben is challenged to defend the lies, blood-libel and slander in the Bts video he posted, Ben runs AWAY like a little jihadi-coward.

      Those questions put to YOU, Ben, remain UNANSWERED!

      In case you missed the questions, here are the questions again:

      QUESTIONS

      1. Who specifically gave the Orders Yehuda Shaul claims were given?

      2. To whom specifically were the Orders given?

      3. Yehuda Shau claims that “the Orders were very clear: 2:00 O’clock at night, Palestinian police checkpoints, anyone at the checkpoint is doomed to die, uniform, not uniform, doesn’t matter, armed not armed….at the end of the evening 15 Palestinian policeman are killed”. What is the SOURCE for that claim?

      4. If Yehuda Shaul (a) does NOT know who gave the Order he claims was given, (b) does NOT know to whom those Orders were given and (c) have NO SOURCE for the Orders he claims were given, the obvious conclusion is that the whole story was MADE-UP, is it not?

      Pls. answer ONLY the questions, Ben!

      We are waiting……

      Reply to Comment
      • Whonoze

        Folks, Ben is still ON the RUN!

        And those questions are just the FIRST opening 4-questions.

        We are just getting started, but Ben is already ON the RUN!

        Reply to Comment
      • Ben

        You sound agitated and quite hysterical. Time to calm down and t h i n k.

        1. Why would Yehuda Shaul give a particular Israeli Army commander’s name to an audience of Americans in Seattle, Washington? Think about it.

        2. Why do you assume Yehuda does not know?

        3. Your obsession with this betrays a fundamental misunderstanding about Breaking the Silence and its purpose. Your complaints are stale and have been thoroughly answered by, among others, Haggai Matar:

        http://972mag.com/why-do-so-many-israelis-hate-breaking-the-silence/114763/

        Why do so many Israelis hate Breaking the Silence?

        “…The second claim is that they don’t hand over their testimonies for investigation by the army. I say: why hand them over? First of all, in its early years the organization did hand over its testimonies to the army. And what happened? They were paid a visit by the military police, which sought to investigate the very crimes they were testifying about, as if they were the guilty party and not their commanders or the army’s policies in the territories. So why hand over testimonies if all it means is that you will be investigated for testifying?
        Add to that the fact that others who decided to air such criticisms from within the army did not have any greater success (like the story of the refuseniks from Israel’s hi-tech intelligence Unit 8200, who first complained directly to their commanders). And the fact that Israel Military Police investigations (which aren’t always even initiated in the first place) only rarely lead to indictments and convictions, as has been documented time and again in our special investigative series “License to Kill.”

        But even if all that weren’t the case, there would still be no need for Breaking the Silence to hand over its testimonies for the army to investigate. The whole point of Breaking the Silence is that the military occupation in the territories is itself the problem, and that injustices are an inherent part of that situation, not exceptional incidents or the result of “bad apples.” So what exactly is the army supposed to investigate? Whether it has been ruling millions of people under a military regime for almost 50 years? Whether that military regime is responsible for inescapable systematic violations of human and civil rights? (By the way, when the army wants to, it knows how to use Breaking the Silence testimonies in order to advance its investigations.)”

        Reply to Comment
        • Whonoze

          You are still ON the RUN and unable to defend the FALSE claims of the Bts. Those questions put to YOU regard specific FALSE allegations of war crimes made by the Bts and parroted by YOU on this site. Those questions remain UNANSWERED! I do not assume that Yehuda Shaul does know know the answers to those question, I am CERTAIN Yehuda Shaul MADE-UP his story, moron.

          In case you missed the questions, here are the questions again:

          QUESTIONS

          1. Who specifically gave the Orders Yehuda Shaul claims were given?

          2. To whom specifically were the Orders given?

          3. Yehuda Shau claims that “the Orders were very clear: 2:00 O’clock at night, Palestinian police checkpoints, anyone at the checkpoint is doomed to die, uniform, not uniform, doesn’t matter, armed not armed….at the end of the evening 15 Palestinian policeman are killed”. What is the SOURCE for that claim?

          4. If Yehuda Shaul (a) does NOT know who gave the Order he claims was given, (b) does NOT know to whom those Orders were given and (c) have NO SOURCE for the Orders he claims were given, the obvious conclusion is that the whole story was MADE-UP, is it not?

          And, before you repeat this nonsensical gibberish: “Why would Yehuda Shaul give a particular Israeli Army commander’s name to an audience of Americans in Seattle, Washington? Think about it” you better read this first: http://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-petitions-court-for-breaking-the-silence-secret-testimony/ Ginger Eis posted it before in case you missed it.

          Those questions put to you above are just the opening first 4-questions. We will be going thru all the false allegations one-by-one, step-by-step. This is good stuff and a good chance to … (I will let you find out the hard way).

          Now, answer ONLY the questions!

          We are waiting ……

          Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Ok, what part of Haggai’s explanation, which I helpfully provided you, did you not understand? Because it’s clear it kinda went zoom! over your head. I’m here man, ready to assist you in this challenging assignment. You can do it bro! I respect the differently abled. And since you mention it, and you have I have to assume a “special back door, inside super secret channel” to Eis, could you please convey to her that I kindly asked her her thoughts two days ago but, shockingly, have not heard back from her yet? Was it something I said?

            Reply to Comment
          • Whonoze

            THAT’s yet another evidence that YOU never have any EVIDENCE to back up the false claims, lies and slanders you spread against the Jewish State, the Idf, Israeli soldiers and Israeli Jews. You just passed the classic litmus test for anti-Semitism.

            That’s yet another evidence that YOU are willing and hateful enough to swallow any false stories, lies and slanders about the Jewish State, the Idf, Israeli soldiers and Israeli Jews WITHOUT evidence. You just passed the classic litmus test for anti-Semitism.

            Instead of answering the questions, you are running, meandering, hiding behind the silly excuses of Haggai Mater and want to fixate on and continue the obsession with “Eis” despite the thorough schooling Gustav was patient enough to give you. Do you realize that Bts is not giving the silly excuses Haggai Mater is giving? Do you realize that the Idf is NOT demanding to know the identity of any soldier who allegedly provided “testimony” to the Bts, but only the identity of the perpetrators of the alleged crimes, when and where the alleged crimes were committed, etc. moron?

            So, here are the questions again. I have limited it to just 3-questions (we will get to the fourth and the rest later).

            QUESTIONS

            1. Who specifically gave the Orders Yehuda Shaul claims were given?

            2. To whom specifically were the Orders given?

            3. Yehuda Shau claims that “the Orders were very clear: 2:00 O’clock at night, Palestinian police checkpoints, anyone at the checkpoint is doomed to die, uniform, not uniform, doesn’t matter, armed not armed….at the end of the evening 15 Palestinian policeman are killed”.

            What is the SOURCE for that claim? Or, at the very least: of all the testimonies publish by the bts, cite ONE single “testimony” that contains that claim.

            Pls. answer ONLY the question. If you don’t know the answer just say ‘I don’t know’ and I will move on to the other questions.

            Reply to Comment
    9. Carmen

      I hope I can stop laughing long enough to clearly note the classic hasbara response when faced with the truth, reality and sanity:

      “You’re ON the RUN!” Your questions were answered, just not to your liking.

      “Those questions remain UNANSWERED!” See above. Also seemingly unable to understand what can and cannot be answered or the fact that no one is obligated to answer any of your questions. Duh. You aren’t trying to be another Roland Freisler are you? Or reprise Jim Carrey’s role in ‘Liar, Liar’?

      “Pls. answer ONLY the questions!” What is it with abbreviating a 6-letter word? All of you hasbarists here consistently abbreviate the word ‘please’. Are you afraid to use that word? Is it too humbling for you? Why is that I wonder? Maybe you should try prayer, it would help you with humility and hopefully other things.

      Easy on the comedy dudes/dudettes – am drinking coffee!

      Reply to Comment
      • Gustav

        CARMEN:”I hope I can stop laughing long enough…”

        Poor old Carmen, she thinks laughter makes her more genuine. Yea, as genuine as a hyena.

        Reply to Comment
    10. Whonoze

      To:
      (a) Juli Novak –personally
      (b) Yehuda Shaul –personally and
      (c) NGO Bts

      In this video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JxHE4KrLvj0 of a “lecture” given by Yehuda Shaul onbehalf of the Bts, Yehuda Shaul claimed that the IDF (a) assassinates people it can arrest (b) in order to “leave greater impact on the board” and (b) “just for revenge”. He claims (c) that “in the peak of the second intifada there were a couple of revenge attacks that the Israeli army carried out. For example, if I am not mistaken, it was in February 19..2…2002….there was an attack on Idf-checkpoint near Ramallah in a Palestinian village…; six engineer soldiers were killed. The following night three different special forces unit were sent to revenge. The Orders were very clear: 2:00 O’clock at night, Palestinian police checkpoints, anyone at the checkpoint is doomed to die, uniform, not uniform, doesn’t matter, armed not armed….at the end of the evening 15 Palestinian policeman are killed” (…).

      Yehuda Shaul is clearly making allegations of war crimes against the Idf, which gives rise to the following opening questions:

      QUESTIONS:

      1. Who specifically gave the Orders Yehuda Shaul claims were given?

      2. To whom specifically were the Orders given?

      3. Yehuda Shaul claims that “the Orders were very clear: 2:00 O’clock at night, Palestinian police checkpoints, anyone at the checkpoint is doomed to die, uniform, not uniform, doesn’t matter, armed not armed….at the end of the evening 15 Palestinian policeman are killed”. What is the SOURCE for that claim?

      4. If Yehuda Shaul (a) does NOT know who gave the Orders he claims were given, (b) does NOT know to whom those Orders were given and (c) has NO SOURCE for the OrderS he claims were given, the obvious conclusion is that the whole story was MADE-UP, is it not?

      Pls. answer ONLY the questions! Your efforts will be highly appreciated.

      We are waiting for your answers ……

      Reply to Comment
    11. Liz

      A fine article. There are Jews who want an end to the occupation, 2states between the Med and Jordan and a democratic, not ethnocratic Israel. BTS and other peace-seeking organisations represent us. Let us not look back and say that we did not know or we did not understand as religious and nationalist forces take control of the country. We do.

      Reply to Comment
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