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Politicizing Palestinian refugees won't make them go away

By defunding UNRWA and attempting to define Palestinian refugees out of existence, the Trump administration is only shooting the messenger. UNRWA is a product, not the source, of the Palestinian refugee problem.

By Zena Agha

Palestinians protesting job cuts at the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) in the West Bank city of Nablus, on March 15, 2018. (Nasser Ishtayeh/Flash90)

Palestinians protesting job cuts at the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) in the West Bank city of Nablus, on March 15, 2018. (Nasser Ishtayeh/Flash90)

Last Friday, the Trump administration announced that the United States would no longer fund the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) – the U.N. body which delivers vital aid to some 5.3 million Palestinian refugees across the Arab world. The cut, which amounts to $300 million, constitutes about 30 percent of the organization’s total yearly budget.

Describing UNRWA as an “irredeemably flawed operation”, the Trump administration has yet again belied its animosity against the refugee agency, whose mission is to provide relief for Palestinians expelled from their homes during the Nakba in 1947-8. Jared Kushner, Trump’s son-in-law and special advisor on the Middle East, wrote in a leaked email to his father-in-law: “Sometimes you have to strategically risk breaking things in order to get there.” Listening to Kushner and others, one would be forgiven in thinking that Palestinians relish being dependent on aid, as though the 53 percent of Gaza’s population living under a decade-long siege prefer to exist below the poverty line. It is a vengeful act.

As with any big organization, UNRWA is not without criticism, and the relationship between UNRWA and the Palestinians has proven to be an uneasy but necessary one. In the 69 years since its inception, UNRWA has all but become a welfare government-in-exile, particularly in the years prior to the Palestine Liberation Organization’s (PLO) assumption of leadership in the mid-1960s. But today it operates as a robust, versatile, and diverse body which provides much needed food, healthcare, education, and other services to a vulnerable population scattered across the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon.

In an Orwellian twist, the United States gives an unfettered, unearmarked $3.3 billion annual contribution to Israel ­– the world’s eighth most powerful nation – on the one hand, while it works to dismantle the organization which sustains millions of people that Israel made destitute, on the other.

Jared Kushner, senior advisor to President Trump, speaks at the official opening ceremony of the U.S. embassy in Jerusalem on May 14, 2018. (Yonatan Sindel/Flash90)

Jared Kushner, senior advisor to President Trump, speaks at the official opening ceremony of the U.S. embassy in Jerusalem on May 14, 2018. (Yonatan Sindel/Flash90)

As far as the U.S. and Israel are concerned, UNRWA’s crime is to perpetuate the refugee question and validate the Palestinian right to return by granting refugee status to the descendants of those who were expelled during the Nakba (not an uncommon practice for refugees from protracted conflicts, such as in Afghanistan, Sudan and Somalia). The administration has devised a clumsy and reckless “solution” to this: strip the descendants of displaced Palestinians of their refugee status, allow UNRWA to only serve the estimated 20-30,000 surviving refugees (a number that will diminish each year) while discontinuing operations for descendants, redirect funds to the host country for “resettlement,” and extinguish all possibility of return for Palestinian refugees.

And the wheels for this dramatic plan have already been set in motion. In July, Congressman Doug Lamborn, a Colorado Republican, introduced bill HR 6451 which states that only surviving refugees qualify for resettlement and UNRWA services. The rest of the aid would be redirected to the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID). The bill has been referred to the House Committee on Foreign Affairs.

In a statement, Lamborn accused the descendants of refugees of making a “mockery of both those who are true refugees around the world and those who are truly living in deplorable conditions throughout the region.” It is as incredulous as it is tragic that one misinformed politician from Colorado can declare what constitutes a “true refugee,” ­and manipulate the democratic process to determine the fate of millions of people on the other side of the planet.

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At its core, Trump and his ilk fundamentally misdiagnose UNRWA as the source, rather than the product of the refugee reality, which will remain even if UNRWA is dismantled. Rebranding Palestinian refugees does not stop them from being refugees, a status enshrined in international law. This latest assault is intended to bully the Palestinians into capitulating in time for the unveiling of the so-called “Deal of the Century,” President Trump’s plan to end the Israel-Palestine conflict. Not only does such a move aim to take the Palestinian refugee question off the table, it is an attempt to dash Palestinian claims to repatriation and reparations as enshrined in UN Resolution 194.

What Washington fails to grasp is the root of the Palestinian grievance. Trump, Kushner, Lamborn et al. can continue to meddle with the semantics of refugee status and try to bleed resources from the institutions that sustain refugees. But the Palestinians’ demands remain clear and unshakable: the right to return to the lands from which they were forcibly expelled, and to which they are forbidden from returning – a right that predates UNRWA. Trump is simply shooting the messenger.

Zena Agha is the the U.S. Policy Fellow at Al-Shabaka: The Palestinian Policy Network. Follow her at @Zena_Agha. This article follows Zena’s policy memo published in Al-Shabaka, read it here.

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    1. Ben

      That the current president of the United States is an absolutely unprecedented ass, utterly bankrupt morally and strategically, even demented, can be doubted by no one reading American newspapers in the past few weeks. So, so much for Trump’s asinine “deal of the century.”

      It is no accident that Trump, Kushner and the Netanyahus are all under criminal investigation and soon-to-be prosecution. These people are all of a gangster persuasion, an organized crime mentality. Not a few of Lamborn’s Republican congressional colleagues are also going down in the thickets of corruption scandals. While Trump’s obvious right-wing apparatchik nomination to the Supreme Court, Brett Kavanaugh, chosen for his deference to executive power and near certainly that he will grant Trump impunity once on the Court, is mired in outright perjury charges now, a long string of lies under oath coming to light. The only thing that likewise keeps the leaders of the occupation out of the Hague is the special pass given Israel by Europeans:

      By Larry Derfner |Published December 27, 2013
      The world’s blatant double standard – in Israel’s favor
      https://972mag.com/the-worlds-blatant-double-standard-in-israels-favor/84499/

      And so much of it is shrouded in a perverse Orwellianism. As very well noted by Zena Agha:

      “In an Orwellian twist, the United States gives an unfettered, unearmarked $3.3 billion annual contribution to Israel ¬– the world’s eighth most powerful nation – on the one hand, while it works to dismantle the organization which sustains millions of people that Israel made destitute, on the other.”

      Reply to Comment
      • Ben

        And on the subject of perversities, it’s also incredible to me that little Jared Kushner, like his father-in-law a real estate flimflammer who coldly pushes disadvantaged people out of housing and scams people to make a quick buck, and shows the same bad business sense anyway that his thrice-bankrupted father-in-law and his own weirdly felonious father show (see the Kushner Properties 666 Fifth Avenue building debacle), and is a boy who knows absolutely nothing about Israel-Palestine except what people like David Friedman spoon feed him, should be put in charge of flimflamming the Palestinians and the rest of the world in regard to real estate. The mind boggles.

        Reply to Comment
        • Ido

          “the United States gives an unfettered, unearmarked $3.3 billion annual contribution to Israel” –
          As a requirement of this aid, it needs to be spent almost entirely on US military contracts so the US weapons industry benefits from this greatly.
          It’s used by the US to maintain its influence in the middle east, has a big leverage in what tech will Israel buy and from who and allows the US to enjoy the experience due to Israel’s use of American tech.

          1. Only a fraction of the aid given stays in Israel. By far the largest share remains with American defense contractors, leading to economy boost, jobs creation, etc.
          2. Israel gaines battlefield experience with U.S. weapons. This experience is conveyed to the U.S. army. Joined training with US troops are common.
          3. Israel continually modifies U.S. weapons systems and shared technology with the US.
          4. The U.S. is a beneficiary of Israel’s military development.

          What does the US get for the $1.5 billion given to Egypt?

          While I object Trumps’ decision to completely stop giving aid to UNRWA, the idea is sound: it should be dissolved and I’ll explain in detail in the following posts. However it should be be a gradual process. The article does mention how most of the funding comes from outside the US and European
          countries announced they will increase their funding to compensate for the US so UNRWA is not defunded.

          more to follow.

          Reply to Comment
        • Ido

          (part 1): “Tens of millions of people became refugees following the dissolution of empires, wars, conflicts and the establishment of nation states. The United Nations created the International Refugee Organization (IRO) in 1947 to deal with the refugees of World War II.
          Two years later, in late 1949, the organization’s name was changed to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) to deal with all of the world’s refugees. Well, not exactly all of them. Because five days after the UNHCR’s establishment, another body was created to deal with the refugees of Palestine—the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA). Only with them.
          Why was there a need for another body? Because the UNHCR was supposed to deal with the integration and rehabilitation of refugees. The Arab states objected. They wanted a body which wouldn’t deal with integration or rehabilitation. They wanted a body that would work to perpetuate the problem. The definition of a refugee was different and broader, the budgets were much bigger, etc. And most importantly, the UNHCR dealt with 50 million refugees—and they aren’t refugees. UNRWA, on the other hand, started off with 711,00, and today the number of registered refugees is 5.3 million. Everything has been reversed.
          For the sake of comparison, the UNHCR, which was created five days before UNRWA, dealt with 50 million refugees, none of whom are refugees today. UNRWA, on the other hand, hit the road with 711,000 refugees and says it is dealing with 5.3 million today.
          The amazing paradox is that the more the international community invested in the refugees of Palestine—and it invested in them more than it invested in any other refugee in the world—the bigger the problem became. The Arab world stubbornly refused to rehabilitate the refugees (as detailed in Einat Wilf and Adi Schwartz’s book “The War for the Right of Return”). The stubbornness was only and exclusively about the perpetuation of refugeeism.”

          More to follow.

          Source:
          https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5299664,00.html

          Reply to Comment
        • Ido

          (part 2): The Return Fantasy – The Center for Near East Policy Research keeps exposing what is taking place behind the walls of UNRWA schools, and especially the brainwashing concerning the “right of return.” There is no such right. Tens of millions of people became refugees those years. None of them received a “right of return.” There were occasionally claims from expelled and uprooted people in Europe, who demanded the restitution of property and a return.
          The European Court of Human Rights discussed the most important claim in this area. Refugees from the Turkish side of Greece, following the Turkish invasion in 1974, demanded a restitution of property. The situation has changed, the court ruled, and dismissed the claim.
          There were other claims. Jews claimed property that was expropriated from them in Egypt. In practice, no one received compensation. But the refugees from Palestine, who were Arabs at the time and later became Palestinians, keep fostering just one fantasy: A return.

          More to follow.

          Reply to Comment
        • Ido

          (part 3): To somehow solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, there is a need for a different route based on the following principle: No more perpetuation of refugeeism, but rather a rehabilitation of refugees. There is no need to terminate UNRWA right away. And anyway, most of those registered by UNRWA are no longer in refugee camps or don’t even exist (only 177,000 of the 450,000 people registered in Lebanon are actually in Lebanon). Many others are Jordanian citizens or residents of the Palestinian Authority, and others have moved to Europe with hundreds of thousands of refugees from Syria. The remaining ones should be handled by the UNHCR.

          These is no longer a need for this agency, it does not in any way promote peace and only perpetuates the problem.

          Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Hackneyed propaganda using apples and oranges. WWII is over. The conflict and the occupation are not. The solution to the problem of the refugees is a a two state or one state solution with a solution to the refugee problem based on the API or similar parameters. All quite reasonable and doable without having the vapors and hysteria and suicidal thoughts about that old extremist chestnut: “committing national suicide.”

            “the US weapons industry benefits from this greatly”

            NOT a plus in my book. At all.

            You may be happy to see the USA suckered into all sorts of deadly, futile Middle East chaos-creating misadventures but I’m definitely not.

            “Israel gains battlefield experience with U.S. weapons.” Read “population suppression experience in the occupied territories…”

            Same with the rest of your gung ho militarism in which it is mostly American young men who die.

            You’re so predictable and such a fount of cliches.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1):
            Reality and facts are not Hackneyed propaganda.
            “WWII is over. The conflict and the occupation are not” – The Palestinian refugees were the result of the 1948 war, when multiple Arab nations invaded Israel and tried to destroy it.
            The conflict and the occupation in the West Bank are not the reason they exist, Palestinins in the West bank are citizens of the Palestinian Authority, Palestinians in Gaza are citizens of whatever Islamic theocracy hellhole Hamas created there.
            Second, third and 4th generation Arabs who were born there are not refugees. Not to mention that more than half of all Palestinian “refugees” are not in the West Bank or Gaza but in places like Jordan, Lebanon and Syria.
            You of course missed the point I was making when I compared the Palestinian refugees to other similar war refugees from the same time: they are no longer refugees. They were not controlled by a farce like UNRWA who instead of solving the refugees issue like it was solved anywhere else on earth, they are busy perpetuating and expanding the population of “Palestine refugees”, allowing this status to be transferred without limit from generation to generation, maintaining the status after refugees have acquired a nationality (for example in Jordan), and assigning the status to residents of the West Bank and Gaza, who live in the so called Palestinian homeland, citizens of the Palestinian Authority.
            UNHCR, which was created five days before UNRWA, dealt with 50 million refugees, none of them are refugees today. UNRWA started with around 720,000 refugees and says it is dealing with 5.3 million today. 70 years later. And the world has invested in Palestinian refugees more than in any other refugees in the world. This is a farce. It’s simple: the Arab world stubbornly refuses to rehabilitate the refugees and UNRWA keeps brainwashing the Palestinians about a return that is never, ever going to happen.

            More to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “The solution to the problem of the refugees is a a two state or one state solution” – one state is out of the question. Not ever going to happen. If I wanted to live in an Arab country, such a paradise of democracy, non-tribal violence, religious freedom, human rights and stability I would go live in such paradises as Lebanon, Syria Jordan and Egypt.
            Thank you but i’ll pass. I can’t stress enough how much this is never, ever going to happen.

            “with a solution to the refugee problem based on the API” – we had this discussion before and you ignored the facts. Here’s one of them: this plan includes a large number of Arab Palestinians “refugees” transferring into Israel.
            The return of millions of Palestinian refugees and their descendants would turn Israel into an Arab state. Not going to happen.

            “All quite reasonable and doable” – and you expect me to take you seriously after you say something as stupid as this ? hilarious. Sure if israel wants to end itself.
            “that old extremist chestnut” – how can you not grasp that turning Israel into another Arab state is israel’s end ? why on earth will I want to live and raise my family in another Arab hellhole ?
            “NOT a plus in my book” – it is for the US economy and jobs market, your opinion is irrelevant.
            “You may be happy to see” – I never said that. I simply explained in detail how the aid to Israel is used compared to other countries like Egypt. How it isn’t “unfettered, unearmarked”.
            “Read population suppression experience in the occupied territories” – so you’re not aware of Israel’s actions in places like Syria ? Sudan ? Lebanon ? why am I not surprised.
            “Same with the rest of your gung ho militarism” – a military is a necessity when you live in an Arab hellhole known as the Middle-East. When your country was attacked multiple times in an attempt to destroy it and to kill its population.
            “mostly American young men who die” – Not sure if you have been paying attention but it’s actually mostly Arabs in their tribal sectarian conflicts in their failed states. Let’s turn Israel into one, sounds like a good idea.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Mere hackneyed propaganda again, from top to bottom.

            “…one state is out of the question. Not ever going to happen…”

            The fraudulence of this propaganda is exposed by the fact that a de facto one state has already happened and will only proceed apace. You are in denial. You must not keep track of what your settlers and their GOI enablers are up to all this time. The only question now is how apartheidist it will continue to be versus being a state of all its citizens.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            And again, as usual, you dismiss facts and reality because apparently it doesn’t match your delusional nonsense. Point to anything I said which isn’t true, go ahead.
            Calling it “hackneyed propaganda” will not somehow make reality based facts go away.
            “The fraudulence of this propaganda” – how is this so difficult for you to grasp? why on earth will Israel allow itself to commit suicide and become a de-facto Arab state? are you blind? you don’t see what is going on in every single Arab country around Israel?
            Why on earth will I want to live in an Islamic tribal hellhole? this is you being amazed how someone is refusing to point a gun at his head and pull the trigger.
            “a de facto one state has already happened” – Utter nonsense. A rediculous lie. Where did you pull this idiotc “fact” from ? please, by all means, go right ahead.
            “You are in denial” – you have no idea what you’re talking about, as usual.
            “You must not keep track of what your settlers” – you must not know what you’re talking about as usual.
            “he only question now is how apartheidist it will continue to be versus being a state of all its citizens” – how stupid can you be? how on earth will the Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank are citizens of Israel or ever will be? how on earth can you not comprehend how Israel will never, ever agree to become a de-facto Arab state? this is a rare consensus among all the Israeli political spectrum, well, not the insane ones and those who openly call for Israel to cease to exist like the Arab Joint List with members who literally support Palestinian terrorists who openly call for Israel’s elimination and see all of Israel as their “Palestine”.
            And of course you ignored almost everything I posted, mostly regarding UNRWA and the US aid to Israel but that’s like saying the sun is hot.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Simply an abusive, huffing and puffing non-answer to the fact that a de facto one state already exists and the Setter-IDF-GOI complex is more deeply entrenching it every day. Facts are facts. You’re the one with the problem to solve, not me. (I’m just the messenger. You’re trying to shoot the messenger but you’re firing blanks and making a lot of smoke but I’m still here.)

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            And of course again you ignored my posts pointing out in detail how you have no idea what you were talking about so I ask again: point to anything I said which isn’t true. Go ahead.
            “huffing and puffing non-answer” – how does spelling out for you why Israel will never, ever agree to the one state solution is a non-answer ? what I aid about UNRWA? the US aid? how is asking you to back up your ridiculous claims about the one state already existing is “huffing” ?
            “de facto one state already exists ” – nope, it most certainly does not. Unless Israel takes over Gaza and completely annex the West Bank along with the couple of millions of Palestinians living there.
            “more deeply entrenching it every day” – so all the offers to withdraw from large parts of the West Bank made by Israel in the last 20 years or so are not familiar to you ? settlers were also “entrenched” in Gaza, didn’t stop Israel from removing them all, every single one. By force when necessary.
            “Facts are facts” – oh I know. I’ve been pointing them out to you for some time now. You either completely ignore them or claim ridiculous nonsense without backing it up.
            “You’re the one with the problem to solve, not me” – hilarious, said the clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about. Who again ignored my posts above where I point out his nonsense in detail. You’re the one who needs to address those post and back up your claims.
            “I’m just the messenger. You’re trying to shoot the messenger” – nope, I’m simply pointing out the messenger has no idea what he’s talking about. Very, very clearly so.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Nichts Neues. The usual hyperventilation and suicidal thoughts and general hysteria, the usual rudeness and name calling.

            You don’t have to believe me. Believe Ayalet Shaked and the Israel paper of record (believe not her three lies but her actions, not her words):

            “…The government brandishes false explanations about the “free market” so it can continue to maintain an incredible welfare state, a real socialist miracle — in the settlements.”
            https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-israeli-justice-minister-s-three-lies-1.6455532

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Again refusing to address my posts showing in detail how you have no idea what you’re talking about, again refusing to provide evidence for your nonsense. I ask again, 4th time: point to anything I said and prove me wrong. Go ahead.
            Why is this so difficult for you ?
            “You don’t have to believe me” – belief has nothing to do with this, I literally prove in detail how you’re wrong, how you’re a liar, how you have no idea what you’re talking about. Over and over again.
            I ask again: 3,567 time: why on earth are you posting links to a site behind a paywall that I told you so many times I can’t see ? how stupid can you be ? by the first paragraph that I can read some of I can see this has nothing to do with what I posted and with your ignorant nonsense.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Since your posts do not “show in detail” anything like what you imagine they do, why would I? Have you asked yourself that? After the 3567th time asking the wrong question? (You like to use the word “stupid” but you must be aware of that classic definition of stupidity? Yes?) I suspect I am not the first person who has quickly learned that ignoring 95% of what you say is the only sane thing to do. But they don’t tell you. I’m telling you. But there is only so much time one can devote to someone being you on the internet.

            About Haaretz: That’s simply revealing. Your refusing to pay for Haaretz and read it regularly would be like an American, in a tiny United States (say, NY, NJ, DE, MD and DC) saying he refuses to buy and read the New York Times and the Washington Post. I have to regard you as fundamentally ignorant, with a determined know-nothing attitude. And that’s OK. Lots of right wing voters are like this. But it says quite a lot about you. You want to be taken seriously but offer no basis for it. Your only excuse is penury, but you seem well able to afford your laptop and facebook account and loads of time occupying this site.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): Why are you lying when the posts are right there ? do you want me to copy/paste them again ? Everything I said about your nonsense, about the US aid, UNRWA, your nonsense about the one state solution, all right there. Why on earth are you lying about this when the posts are right above me ?
            “why would I?” – because they refute your clueless nonsense in detail and you think that like a child if you look away and ignore it, it doesn’t exist. This is the level of your argument.
            “After the 3567th time asking the wrong question?” – yes, pointing out how I don’t read the links you post because they are behind a paywall is ‘the wrong question’. How can I take you seriously when you say something as stupid as this ?
            “classic definition of stupidity?” – I don’t mind refuting your clueless nonsense over and over again when you simply choose to ignore my posts, it only shows how deep your denial of reality goes. I find it very entertaining.
            You’re like a child you shuts his eyes and holds his ears yelling ‘I’m not listening!”. Very mature.
            “the only sane thing to do” – hilarious.. sanity ? ignoring my posts refuting your nonsense is truly the only way you keep clinging to your clueless nonsense even after I refute it over and over again. You just did it again.
            “But they don’t tell you. I’m telling you” – hey, whatever helps you deal with your denial of reality, whatever helps you deal with my posts refuting your clueless nonsense over and over again. I’m not judging. But I will point how ridiculous it is.
            “But there is only so much time” – I’ll always have time for your clueless out of touch with reality nonsense. I find you very amusing.
            I ask again, 5th time: point to anything in my posts refuting your clueless nonsense which isn’t true. Go ahead. Why is this so difficult for you ?
            “Your refusing to pay for Haaretz” – As I already told you I don’t pay for any news sites. Not just Ha’aretz. You don’t remember ?
            If you continue to post links I already made clear many times that I can’t read and I’ll just continue pointing out how stupid that is.

            More to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “saying he refuses to buy and read the New York Times and the Washington Post” – nope, no it isn’t. It has nothing to do with this. Like I said, I don’t pay for any news sites. Do you understand ? not Just Ha’aretz, any site. Is this concept difficult for you for some reason ?
            “I have to regard you as fundamentally ignorant, with a determined know-nothing attitude” – I proved in great detail, including on this very comments section, that you’re an ignorant clueless brainwashed liar who has no idea what he’s talking about and when I confront you with this you have a very hard time dealing with reality.
            “Lots of right wing voters are like this” – I believe I mentioned twice or so that I voted for the Israeli Labor party in the past and I will probably vote for Lapid next elections. If you are going to lie about me again, be more creative.
            “You want to be taken seriously” – I want to point out how you have no idea what you’re talking about as I did here in detail.
            “you seem well able to afford your laptop and facebook account” – I believe I already mentioned this in the many posts where I pointed out how you keep posting links behind a paywall: I don’t pay for any news site, do you understand ? everyone, not just Ha’aretz. Is this too difficult for you to grasp ? there are more than enough news sites, ad revenue or otherwise free. Feel free to use them just like I do when I refute your lying clueless nonsense.
            “occupying this site” – are you joking ? this site is an endless fountain of hilarity. Better than most Palestinian propaganda sites. Sometimes it’s like reading fantasy fiction from an alternate dimension.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            You Bibi-boys are all for capitalism and the free market except when you’re not. Both in regards to acquiring knowledge and paying for it and in regards to illegally colonizing occupied territories. Then you’re all socialists. But on the down low. Shhh. Don’t tell the goyim. And don’t tell the liberal democrats. And don’t tell the Israeli tax payer. (As explained by Noa Osterreicher, who you can’t be bothered to read.) And in the occupier’s socialism all animals are equal but some are more equal than others. Way more equal. Who are we kidding? Not at all equal. Oh, wait, they don’t even pretend that anymore. Shhhhh! The Americans might hear! Oh wait, that was before the Russians elected an American intellectually subnormal psychopath to be POTUS. Never mind.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            And again you ignored my posts pointing out in detail how you have no idea what you’re talking about, and again for a 5th time avoided pointing out where I’m wrong when I refuted your clueless nonsense, and we have a new lie:
            “You Bibi-boys” – told you about 5 or 6 times that I’m not a Netanyahu supporter, quite the opposite and I never voted for him. In fact I voted for his rivals the center-left Labor Party. What’s with your obsession with lying about me ? very odd.
            “Both in regards to acquiring knowledge and paying for it and in regards to illegally colonizing occupied territories” – and some more nonsense which has nothing to do with my posts pointing out in detail how you’re clueless.
            “you can’t be bothered to read” – Again, I lost count how many times I mentioned this: I don’t pay for news sites, any news site, do you understand ? it’s not about bothering to read, it’s about not paying for news sites when there are many, many others not behind a paywall to choose from.
            How on earth is this so difficult for you to grasp ? how many times do I need to repeat this ? amazing.
            “they don’t even pretend that anymore” – again unrelated nonsense which has nothing to do with your clueless nonsense which I refuted in detail above.
            “Russians elected an American intellectually subnormal” – Do you want to change the subject again ? seems to be a favorite tactic of yours of late, when you are confronted with the fact that you’re a clueless brainwashed liar who has no idea what he’s talking about.
            I ask again, 6th time: point to anything in my posts refuting your clueless nonsense which isn’t true. Go ahead. Why is this so difficult for you ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Oh, it’s you again. You’re so tiresome, Ido. No one who has followed this believes a word you say about this. You’re all about attempting to pass off your contentious interpretations as “fact.” Always have been. And then demanding others “refute” these pseudo-facts. And spend all day doing it. That’s your entire gambit in a nutshell. You’re never going to get this are you? You’re forever going to trot out “please by all means show me how the facts…..blah blah blah.” It’s like talking to someone who’s had a stroke.

            You’re full of anti-Semitizing Oslo-related lies about “what the Palestinians want.” All of it right wing extremist over-generalizations and interpretations masquerading as “facts.” “Jew murder, Jew blood, all of Israel river to sea blah blah blah.” All extremely simplistic and hackneyed, with mold from twenty years ago clinging to it. Like a zombie. And you’ll come back with “again, you haven’t refuted my facts blah blah blah.” Spare us yet another tedious round of this deceitfulness. Spare us the inanity. Spare us the inanity for the millionth time of “clueless liar,” will you?

            These attempts to pass off contentious propagandistic interpretations as “fact” evoke in us mirth not consternation. We find this funny. The way we laugh at Wiley E. Coyote and the way we laugh at Elmer Fudd. And the way we laugh at Stephen Colbert imitating Donald Trump or Mike Pence.

            You protest that you don’t vote for Netanyahu; so you say, we have our doubts; because there is absolutely no distance between you and Bibi politically except maybe something about the price of cottage cheese and apartment rents in Tel Aviv; but even if you don’t, so what? You miss the point. You don’t even understand that there is no meaningful distance between the “center-left” so-called “peace camp” and the Netanyahu camp with respect to any issue +972 Magazine cares about. You’re a fraud and you don’t even know it. You won’t understand any of this or will pretend you don’t and I am utterly uninterested in your protests to the contrary.

            The other thing we think is that you, in your narcissism, think it’s all about you and me. So when I move on to something substantive you yell and scream that I am “changing the subject.” The subject you care about is “Ido and Ben” and your fantasies about Ben but we’ve moved on to things that matter for real people under severe duress. It will comes as a surprise to you but one gives a sh*t about our back and forths or this crap you belabor with me. No one but you is even reading it except you. Ido, no one believes you and even if they possibly would they lost the point a long time ago in the 175th reiteration of “you are a clueless liar nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah.” What a joke.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): oh it’s you ignoring my posts above again where I explained in detail how you have no idea what you’re talking about, it’s you again not being able to point to a single thing I said and prove me wrong.
            “believes a word you say” – you seem to confuse facts based reality with faith. This is very odd. Again: point to anything I said and prove me wrong. I did the same to your clueless nonsense.
            “contentious interpretations” – and here were are again, “interpretations”. To go along with your “rephrasing”, “artistic license” or whatever idiotic nonsense you pathetically use to ignore reality.
            Again: facts are not interpretations. What I posted about UNRWA, the US aid, the one state solution, everything, is not an interpretation. You can easily look it up yourself which is probably the reason you are repeatedly unable to address it.
            Being confronted with reality which obviously contradicts your brainwashed very wrong information seems uncomfortable for you. You have my sympathies.
            “And then demanding others “refute” these pseudo-facts” – Again: easily found facts and information is not ‘pseudo-facts’, I have no idea why you keep lying like this but that won’t change the posts above where I show in detail that
            you have no idea what you’re talking about, you’re a clueless liar who rejects easily to prove reality when it contradicts with your delusional take on reality.
            Do you understand how your repeated inability to prove me wrong is an answer all by itself ? to refute my posts where I show in detail how you have no idea what you’re talking about ? how many times have I listed your lied, embarrassing mistakes and obvious lack of knowledge about Israel and the Palestinian conflict ?
            Would you like me to post the highlights again ?
            “You’re full of anti-Semitizing Oslo-related lies” – you’re a liar, obviously so. When I say something I back it up. When I say the Palestinians want something I provide irrefutable proof of the Palestinians themselves saying it. Very, very clearly so.
            And you of course are not able to address this because it’ll be like insisting that the sun isn’t hot. You’re a liar who thinks that if you ignore my posts proving this it won’t exist. This is the level of your argument.
            “over-generalizations and interpretations” – are you that stupid ? how something the Palestinian leadership openly yell in your face is ‘over-generalizations and interpretations’ ? how what the clearly say in their official charters, their speeches, interviews, declaration of goals, etc, an over-generalizations and interpretations ?
            Please, explain this ridiculous idiocy. Stupidity of this magnitude intrigues me.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “Jew murder, Jew blood, all of Israel river to sea blah blah blah” – how stupid can you be when I shove the evidence in your face over and over and over again and you continue to lie about this ? to ignore reality ? do you think they’re joking ? I don’t get it, please explain your “rationality”.
            “mold from twenty years ago clinging to it” – why are you lying again about this ? I quoted and posted also recent videos of Palestinian leaders, sermons, speeches, documents, TV shows, paper interviews, etc, all recent and not from 20 years, liar.
            “pare us yet another tedious round” – how can you not understand that your inability to address my posts, refute my data, is an answer all by itself ? by all means. Go ahead. You tried at the beginning, I proved you’re clueless. But please, go right ahead.
            “clueless liar” – when I say you’re a liar, I literally point why that is. Very, very clearly so. You of course ignore this. Again.
            “propagandistic interpretations as “fact””- I have no idea why you continue to lie about this, saying facts based reality, which is easily proven, is ‘propagandistic interpretations’. Yes, it doesn’t fit your brainwashed biased worldview, what conclusion can you draw from this ?
            “We find this funny” – I like your use of the royal ‘we’. Your clueless lies and obvious lack of basic knowledge about Israel and the Palestinians is a source of great amusement to me.
            “so you say, we have our doubts” – have them as much as you like. I can’t stress enough how much I don’t care what your thoughts are on the subject of my voting habits. I did post quite a few times about Netanyahu and his government and what I think about them. What I support and why.
            “there is absolutely no distance between you and Bibi politically” – so you have no memory of what I said ? I’m fine with this. So you’re not just a delusional clueless liar but you have memory issues ?
            “with respect to any issue +972 Magazine cares about” – this news blog is pro-Palestinian ultra left propaganda which sometimes borders on science fiction and fantasy. Some of the articles are so out of touch with reality, similarly to your posts, which makes them almost a work of comedy.
            “you’re a fraud and you don’t even know it” – you’re a clueless delusional brainwashed liar as I prove in great detail over and over and over again. Just like I did here.
            “utterly uninterested in your protests” – you’re uninterested in reality is well documented all over this site.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 3): “think it’s all about you and me” – nope, it’s all about your clueless delusional nonsense, your lack of basic knowledge about Israel and the Palestinian conflict. Your repeated lies. All very well documented.
            “I move on to something substantive” – nope, when you refuse to address my posts, when you refuse to prove me wrong and you change the subject I simply point it out. I understand of course why you choose to do so.
            “The subject you care about is “Ido and Ben”” – Again: the subject is your clueless delusional nonsense, your lack of basic knowledge about Israel and the Palestinian conflict. Your repeated lies. Which I point out as you can see in the posts above.
            “one gives a sh*t about our back and forths or this crap” – who cares ? pointing out your clueless lying nonsense amuses me.
            “No one but you is even reading it” – again: so ? refuting your clueless nonsense amuses me.
            “no one believes you” – and again with the faith idiotic nonsense. Facts based on reality are not ‘a belief’, do you understand ? is this too complicated for you to grasp ?
            “175th reiteration of “you are a clueless” – Again: when I say you’re clueless I back it up. Explain why that is. Do you understand ? why are you ignoring this part again and again ?
            “What a joke” – yes, you certainly are. And that’s why I enjoy our little conversations.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Your stuff about UNRWA is a CLASSIC set of hackneyed, contentious historical and political generalizations and interpretations presented as simplistic “facts” with which there is no argument. I happen to agree with Zena Agha’s interpretation. You don’t of course. But you don’t have irrefutable facts. You’re just confused. You won’t get this and I don’t care. It’s clear to anyone with any education. And yes, you are Netanyahu’s boy through and through. It is mere pretense that you are something different, that or a willful failure to grasp 99% of what this Magazine has been writing about for years. I can’t help you with this.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            And the idea that, because you pulled some quote somewhere from some Hamasnik saying “river to sea” that this means “all the Palestinians and their leadership” are like crazed zombies out for turning the Mediterranean red with “Jewblood” is beyond a masquerade, it’s just bizarre. It’s asinine. Please stop insulting everyone’s intelligence with these “facts.” There are layers upon layers of Israeli deceit and Israeli bad faith you never touch on. As if netanyahu as we speak is not attempting to delegitimizing all Palestinian moderates and has or ever had any intention of making peace and does not actually treasure Hamas and vilify anti-Hamas people. You think we were born yesterday? You’re ridiculous. Now stop pestering me with juvenile nonsense fit for JPost talkback cretins.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “Your stuff about UNRWA” – then prove it. Show it. 7th time I’m asking: which fact isn’t true ? go right ahead. Why is this so difficult for you ?
            “historical and political generalizations and interpretations” – why are you lying about this again ? why are you calling easily proven facts ‘generalizations and interpretations’ ? so prove it. Back up your claims like I refuted your clueless nonsense.
            I happen to agree with Zena Agha’s interpretation” – again with this ‘interpretation’ nonsense, are you that dense ? reality based facts are not ‘interpretation’ no matter how many times you’ll lie about this.
            I ask again: which thing I said about UNRWA is incorrect ? Go ahead.
            “But you don’t have irrefutable facts. You’re just confused” – lie about this as much as you like, the posts are right there. I’m looking at them right now. You’re just lying again, again refusing to accept reality because it contradicts your clueless biased worldview.
            “It’s clear to anyone with any education” – what is clear to anyone with basic knowledge about UNRWA is how what I posted is 100% correct.
            “you are Netanyahu’s boy” – I have no idea why you have an obsession to lie repeatedly about me, the only thing it does is show how pathetic you are, if your inability to address my posts wasn’t confirmation enough.
            “willful failure to grasp 99% of what this Magazine” – oh I pointed on more than on one occasion how this magazine has a one sided extremely biased and sometimes incorrect information, heavily lining towards pro-Palestinian propaganda. With clear evidence to back me up.
            “some Hamasnik saying “river to sea” that this means “all the Palestinians and their leadership”” – why on earth are you still lying about this ? or are you that clueless ? Both Hamas and PLO consider all of Israel as theirs, from the river to the sea, read their official charters. Both leaderships, look at their official maps of “Palestine”, is this too subtle for you ?
            Are you that out of touch from reality that you have no idea about one of the most basic tenets of the Palestinian narrative ? it’s not like they are hiding this. The fact that you try to diminish this, very incorrectly so as “some Hamasink said” only shows how deep your ignorance and denial of reality goes.
            Tell me, is Khaled Mash’al, leader of Hamas, “just some Hamasnik” ? so when he said, and I quote: “We Will Not Relinquish an Inch of Palestine, from the River to the Sea” he was joking ?
            But let’s start with the most basic evidence, before we get to the actual top leaders themselves yelling it in your clueless face: take a look at every official emblem or symbol of both Palestinian leadership factions, see the entire land of Israel from the river to the sea ? is that a printing error ? a joke ? wishful thinking ? please, enlighten me.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “turning the Mediterranean red with “Jewblood”” – I never said that, that’s you lying again. The Palestinian leadership is of course still calling for the destruction of Israel. They are not hiding this. Hell, the PLO’s charter still calls for Israel’s destruction and per the PLO’s own top leader a future Palestine should be Jew Free. Hamas are more direct about this of course, as they are Islamic fundamentalist jihadists. The Palestinian leadership still sponsor the murder of Jews, from the PLO’s ‘Martyr fund’ to Hamas Islamic sermons. I’ve proved this to you over and over again, you have ignored the evidence of course. Can’t deal with the pesky reality which contradicts your delusional clueless opinion, right ?

            “Please stop insulting everyone’s intelligence with these “facts.”” – please go ahead and refute them. Why is this so difficult for you ?
            “There are layers upon layers of Israeli deceit” – if you want to change the subject again, I don’t mind. I’m curious to see what else you have no clue about. And I can imagine you realize how your inability to address my posts is very telling. Very.
            “As if netanyahu” – so you want to ignore my posts and discuss Netanyahu ? which I believe is the worst Prime Minister in Israel’s history with the worst Government in Israel’s history ? sure. Go ahead.
            “any intention of making peace” – first the Palestinian leadership must accept the reality that Israel, the homeland of the Jewish people, exists and is not going anywhere.
            “You’re ridiculous” – I’m ridiculous about something you just said which I never discussed here ? you really are reaching aren’t you.
            “Now stop pestering me with juvenile nonsense” – I ask again, 8th time: point to anything I said and prove me wrong. Go ahead.
            Why is this so difficult for you ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            You have an intractable misunderstanding. I don’t have to prove anything. You have the standards of evidence and argument backwards: extraordinary claims such as you make require extraordinary evidence.

            YOU have to prove that Abu Mazen wants “Jew blood” and “the destruction of Israel.” And not only wants it but will stop at nothing less. Go ahead and prove it.

            YOU have to prove he wants “a Jew free Palestine” rather than, obviously, an Israeli army and settler-freed Palestine. Go ahead. Prove it.
            (And on the face of it and ahead of time, you cannot find him saying “Jew free” so this is one of your bald-faced anti-Semitizing distortions, basically a blatant lie. Not a “fact.”)

            YOU have to prove that Zena Agha is wrong when she argues that: “At its core, Trump and his ilk fundamentally misdiagnose UNRWA as the source, rather than the product of the refugee reality, which will remain even if UNRWA is dismantled….But the Palestinians’ demands remain clear and unshakable: the right to return to the lands from which they were forcibly expelled, and to which they are forbidden from returning – a right that predates UNRWA.” Go ahead. Prove it.

            (By the way you have about you, opportunistically and episodically, an odd concrete literalness in which you take refuge. A dodginess. A false umbrage-taking and accusatorialness. Above, I put “Jew blood,” not the Mediterranean turning red part, in quotation marks. You’ve used “Jew blood” in these pages tens if not hundreds of times. It’s another example of how your scurrilous accusations of “lying” themselves often contain a lie masked as concreteness. But never mind, you have some proving to do. Better get cracking.)

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “I don’t have to prove anything” – of course you do. You make a claim about what I said, you back it up. Just like I refute your nonsense. When I say you’re a clueless liar who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, I back it up.
            Your inability to refute my posts or even address them is a very clear answer all by itself.
            “extraordinary claims such as you make” – This is an interesting tactic, claiming obvious facts and reality based common knowledge with a cited link (see above) is now “extraordinary claims”. This is great stuff, better than your usual hilarious excuse for your inability to address my posts.
            “YOU have to prove that Abu Mazen wants” – already did, multiple times. You ignored every single one of them, repeatedly. Would you like me to link the article again ?
            “the destruction of Israel.” – already proved this to you multiple times, you ignored the evidence every single time. Would you like me to link the article again ?
            “Go ahead and prove it.” – already did, multiple times. Including quoting the Palestinian leadership themselves, including posting videos of them yelling it in your face, multiple times.
            “YOU have to prove he wants “a Jew free Palestine” – already did ,multiple times. What’s funny is this magazine itself posted an article not long ago about a Palestinian “man of peace” who literally say that “Palestine” should be clear of Jews. Remember that hilarity ? or would you like me to link it again ?
            “an Israeli army and settler-freed Palestine” – already did.
            “you cannot find him saying “Jew free” so this is one of your bald-faced anti-Semitizing distortions” – nope, liar. I already proved this to you at least 5 times and you continue to lie about this. And apparently you have no clue what ‘Anti-semitism’ means. Open a dictionary and stop embarrassing yourself.
            You tried to claim Abu Mazen meant ‘Israeli’ and I proved to you how he means Jews and not Israelis as there are many Israeli Arabs and he obviously doesn’t mean them. Do you remember ? would you like me to link this again ?
            “basically a blatant lie. Not a “fact.”” – nope, as you made it very clear back then. you have no idea what you’re talking about.
            “YOU have to prove that Zena Agha is wrong when she argues” – I was very clear about UNRWA perpetuating and cementing the “Palestinian refugees”. How the Right of Return is an unrealistic fantasy. You just ignored my post, repeatedly. Please, by all means, address it. It’s right up there. Would you like me to post it again ? which fact mentioned in it is wrong ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): Why didn’t you address my posts including the previous one where I point to your clueless nonsense and lies in detail ? where I provide evidence to the Palestinian leadership seeing all of Israel as theirs ? you elegantly ignored it, very amusing.
            “Above, I put “Jew blood,” not the Mediterranean turning red part, in quotation marks” – you lied about something I never said, plain and simple. Attempting to dodge this adds to the hilarity.
            “You’ve used “Jew blood”” – yes, when the Palestinian leadership literally pays for it, sponsoring the murder of Jews, I proved this to you multiple times. I never said anything about “Mediterranean turning red with Jew Blood”, that’s you lying again.
            “your scurrilous accusations of “lying””: Again: every single time I say how you’re a liar I back it up. Every single time. Like I just did.
            “never mind, you have some proving to do” – hilarious, what a pathetic attempt to dodge me asking you so many times to back up your clueless nonsense and refute the facts I posted.
            I ask again, 9th time: point to anything I said and prove me wrong. Go ahead.
            Why is this so difficult for you ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Oh. That’s what you think? Then I win the argument. Because you’ve proved precisely none of the things you are asked to prove. Preposterous to claim otherwise. Glad we settled that.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “you’ve proved precisely none of the things you are asked to prove” – I seriously nearly choked from laughing so hard. That is exactly what you have been doing all along, this pathetic childish attempt to switch it around is so pathetically delightful.
            I have been providing evidence for all of this repeatedly across literally dozen of articles, you know what ? I’ll just copy/paste some evidence for you in the Facebook comments section, go right ahead. And of course you ignored everything I said right here in this article comments section about UNRWA and the Right of Return, where I provided a cited link from where I took the data from and I provided a direct quote from the leader of Hamas himself, I’ll add the actual direct source as well in the Facebook comments section. Go on, it’s right up there.

            “I win the argument”, “Glad we settled that” – you should do stand up. That is comedy gold.

            I ask again, 10th time: point to anything I said and prove me wrong. Go ahead.
            Why is this so difficult for you ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            I agree that I am funny, at your expense. I make such mincemeat of you and your arguments that there oughta be a law against it. It always turns out the same way. I feel like Jerry Seinfeld to your George Costanza.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Anything else you would like to say instead of addressing the evidence I provided ? instead of addressing my posts showing in detail how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about ? I’m a little disappointed, I was expecting another hilarious “strategy” to avoid addressing my posts and evidence showing in detail how you’re clueless.
            Your “I win the argument” bit was a work of comedic genius. Your best so far and that’s saying a lot.

            “I agree that I am funny, at your expense” – don’t dig yourself deeper into the pathetic hole, I thought you already reached the bottom.

            “I make such mincemeat of you and your arguments that there oughta be a law against it” – now that is a ridiculous delusional idiotic hilarious nonsense I was expecting. Bravo. Yes, you sure showed me, by repeatedly ignoring my posts where I show in detail how you have no idea what you’re talking about and by ignoring the evidence I provided, at your request, and by lying repeatedly about me. Mincemeat indeed. Keep lying to yourself, I don’t mind. I find this pathetic idiocy quite amusing.

            I ask again, 11th time: point to anything I said and prove me wrong. Go ahead.
            Why is this so difficult for you ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            As I said, you have the standards of evidence and argument backwards. It is YOU who have a whole lotta proving to do. This to me is a settled matter. You can jump up and down and wave your hands and pretend hilarity and call me names for 25 more paragraphs if you like but it won’t change this fact. I’m quite happy to let others read through this and make up their own minds. You might not be and that says a lot, too. Bye bye.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “It is YOU who have a whole lotta proving to do” – really ? what kind of level of delusional stupidity are you at that you say something as idiotic as this when the evidence is all over the comments section including multiple links in the Facebook section. It’s more sad than funny.

            Ido: here’s the information about UNRWA and basic reality. Feel free to refute it.
            Ben: *clueless nonsense and ignoring posts*
            Ido: um, you ignored my posts again as if they aren’t there. Why aren’t you addressing them ?
            Ben: *some more delusional out of touch with reality nonsense*
            Ido: why are you ignoring my posts again ? feel free to refute what I said, just like I refuted your clueless nonsense.
            Ben: but where is your evidence ?
            Ido: I showed you the evidence at least a dozen times, you keep ignoring it. Here, I’ll post all of it in detail again.
            Ben: Where is your evidence ? you who have a whole lotta proving to do.
            Ido: I just provided it again, in detail. Why are you ignoring it again ?

            “This to me is a settled matter” – is it written in invisible ink ? how can I take you seriously when you behave like a demented child ? the evidence is right there, the information about UNRWA which I gave you is right there in the link in the post you ignored about 11 times now.
            “you can jump up and down and wave your hands” – and again your pathetic childish attempt to do a switch around and blame me for what you’re doing. I don’t get it. Do you think this is a “sophisticated strategy” ? are you that deep in denial that you can’t grasp how this makes you look like a pathetic joke ?
            “and pretend hilarity and call me names for 25 more paragraphs” – Again: everything I said, I backed it up. When I called you a liar I followed by an explanation why that is. Every single time. Feel free to address it.

            “I’m quite happy to let others read through this and make up their own” – oh, you have no idea how I’m with you on this one.
            I ask again, 12th time: point to anything I said and prove me wrong. Go ahead. Like I did with your clueless brainwashed nonsense. I Provided detailed evidence in the Facebook comments section as well, at your request. You of course ignored it as if it doesn’t exist.
            Why is this so difficult for you ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Tuesday, September 18, 2018: No proof sighted yet. Im Ido-Land nichts Neues.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            You told some very amusing lies but there are lies so ridiculous that it makes me wonder if you’re trolling or brain damaged.
            The evidence is all over the comments section and many, many links in the Facebook comments section. Which I provided at your request. Which you ignore repeatedly because dealing with reality seems to be difficult for you. Why are you lying when the evidence is right there ?

            I ask again, 14th time: point to anything I said and prove me wrong. Go ahead. Like I did with your clueless brainwashed nonsense. I Provided detailed evidence in the Facebook comments section as well, at your request. You of course ignored it as if it doesn’t exist.
            Why is this so difficult for you ? why is it so hard for you to come to terms with the fact that you have no idea what you’re talking about ? that you’re clueless to the point of being a joke ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            No sign of any proof on the horizon yet. The standards of evidence and argument must be defended. We cannot allow them to be turned upside down. I can see you’re getting increasingly frustrated now that your lack of substance is coming home to roost, the name calling escalating to temper tantrum proportions. Where’s the beef? Obnoxiousness is a poor substitute.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Your lying about me not providing evidence when it’s all over the comments section and posted in detail in the Facebook comments section is another great example how you
            have a hard time dealing with reality when it seems to shatter your biased brainwashed clueless worldview. Saying that I didn’t provide any evidence when it is right there in front of your eyes is more than a childish lie, it’s the most basic example of your inability to handle reality.
            “The standards of evidence and argument must be defended” – um, I posted the Palestinian leadership quite literally yelling in your face the uncomfortable truth. Links to videos of them, interviews, Palestinian sources themselves, etc.
            Contradicting your biased clueless nonsense. Literally the people you’re defending contradict you, very, very clearly so. I understand why you’re in denial about this, having your clueless biased worldview shattered by the people you’re defending no less must be excruciating.
            “I can see you’re getting increasingly frustrated” – nope, just amused by your childish lies. As usual. This is you insisting that the sun isn’t hot.
            And you don’t realize how you’re just giving me another great example of your blatant lies and inability to handle reality. This is more sad than amusing.
            “the name calling escalating to temper tantrum proportions” – you mean calling you a liar and pointing out in detail where you lied ? you’re lying about this as well ?
            “Obnoxiousness is a poor substitute.” – not only being a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about, but childishly ignoring the provided evidence pointing that out is pathetically sad more than your usual clueless amusing nonsense.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            I’ll post the evidence here as well, let’s see how many days it’ll take for it to appear if ever. Here’s some of the evidence from the Facebook comments section you hilariously insist doesn’t exist:

            PLO calling for the destruction of Israel, claiming all of Israel is “Palestine”:
            http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=11319

            PLO official charter calls for the destruction of Israel:
            http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Arti…/Article.aspx/11719

            They refuse to accept the legitimacy of Israel, as their own official spokesperson claims:
            http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=23939

            An explanation of the Fatah/Hamas ideology why they will never accept Israel’s existence:
            http://www.jewishpress.com/…/fatah-hamas…/2017/04/24/

            Fatah, like Hamas, agree Israel has no right to exist:
            http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=20747

            Abbas denying The jewish people’s connection to Israel, a favorite pro-Palestinian lie:
            https://www.timesofisrael.com/rewriting-history-abbas-calls-israel-a-colonial-project-unrelated-to-judaism/

            Abbas calling for future “Palestine” to be Jew-Free:
            http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/170404

            And he’s of course an Anti-Semite Holocauset denier:
            https://www.nytimes.com/…/abbas-palestine-israel.html/

            And he is partial to some of the more colorful anti-semitic conspiracy theories:
            https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Abbas-says-European-Jews-were-massacred-because-of-their-behavior-553263
            https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/02/opinion/abbas-palestine-israel.html?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link

            Hamas top leaders openly declaring that all of Israel is Palestine from the River to the Sea and they will never give up ‘one inch of Palestine’:
            https://www.memri.org/reports/hamas-leader-khaled-mashal-we-will-not-relinquish-inch-palestine-river-sea

            Mahmoud al-Zahar, a senior official of the Hamas terror group:
            https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-palestinians-will-not-give-up-one-inch-of-palestine/

            Hamas assures critics Israel’s destruction still its goal:
            https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-assures-critics-israels-destruction-still-a-goal/

            The Palestinian Incentive Program for Killing Jews:
            https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-07-01/the-palestinian-incentive-program-for-killing-jews

            Palestinian Authority denying Israel’s right to exist:
            http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=433&doc_id=9366

            Here are your “politicians” – Fatah’s own terrorist wing leader explaining how Fatah doesn’t recognize Israel’s legitimate existence and when they said they do it’s for political reasons only, their goal remains the same:
            https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3311034,00.html

            Hamas “revised” charter doesn’t recognize Israel as legitimate, claim it has no right to exist:
            http://www.jewishpress.com/…/revised-hamas…/2017/04/03/

            Hamas’ leader: “We Will Neither Disarm nor Recognize Israel”.
            https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/hamas-leader-in-gaza-we-will-neither-disarm-nor-recognize-israel-1.5459160

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            With those standards of “evidence” you’d never get a paper past peer review at any credible journal. Obnoxious bluster does not obscure this fact.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Oh yes, links to the Palestinian leadership themselves in videos, interviews, speeches, sermons, TV shows etc. is “not a standard of evidence”. The people you’re defending themselves yelling it in your clueless face is not evidence.
            How far are you going to dig yourself into this ridiculous lie to avoid dealing with reality ? how pathetically sad. And great for future reference.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            It’s about as much “evidence” as me saying that a cold snap in September and another in November is evidence against greenhouse gases causing global warming. Try sneaking that past peer review in a serious scientific journal.
            You really don’t get any of this do you?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Still going deep I see. So you’re adding ridiculous comparisons to your blatant lies ?
            Again: links to the Palestinian leadership themselves in videos, interviews, speeches, sermons, TV shows etc. is “not a standard of evidence” to you. The people you’re defending themselves yelling it in your clueless face. Just wanting to make sure.
            You have got to be trolling, I refuse to believe you’re that stupid. So you’re saying the most obvious evidence there is, the Palestinians themselves literally yelling it in your clueless face, is not evidence. I just want to make this clear because stupid of this level is new to me and I’ve been doing this for some time now.
            “Try sneaking that past peer review in a serious scientific journal” – yes, the most basic evidence, the people in question themselves admitting what I claimed is not evidence. Again I’m repeating this for posterity, you repeatedly claimed so.
            “You really don’t get any of this do you?” – oh I get it all right. I get how you sank to a state of denial I’ve never seen before. Which is actually quite impressive. I’ve never seen you lie like this and that’s saying a lot.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            You accusing me of trolling, of all things, and embedding this in the middle of the post you just wrote, would be like Donald Trump accusing someone of being self-centered in the middle of one of his tweets. It’s brazen, funny, and lacking insight all at the same time.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Of course, because I refuse to believe someone is this big of a liar. I refuse to believe someone is truly in this deep denial of reality.
            “would be like Donald Trump accusing” – what’s with you and idiotic comparisons today ? is this part of your denial of reality mechanism ?
            “It’s brazen, funny, and lacking insight all at the same time.” – Still can’t get enough from your lying here. This is amazing:

            Lawyer: so here’s the guy who we think did it.
            Judge: any evidence to back it up ?
            Lawyer: well we have a video of him doing it, an interview with him where he admits it and we have his admission in writing on his official charter.
            Lawyer: any of those fake ? under duress ? was it an actor pretending to be him ?
            Lawyer: nope. It was him.
            Judge: but Ben said the most obvious basic evidence possible in existence is not good enough for “peer review in a serious scientific journal”! release him!

            Your a joke. An endless source of amusement and for that I thank you.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Except it’s the wrong guy in the video! Case thrown out of court! For lack of evidence! Hahahahahahahahaha. Better find a new occupation Lawyer Geller! Geezus. Why do you make it so easy to make mince meat of you? There oughta be a law!

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “Except it’s the wrong guy in the video! Case thrown out of court!” – this is your hilariously pathetic attempt ? the Palestinians in the evidence I posted are fake ? actors ? are you drunk ? you can’t be this stupid.

            “Why do you make it so easy to make mince meat of you?” – are you having some kind of breakdown ? the cognitive dissonance of knowing the clear evidence is right in front of you showing how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about while clinging to your brainwashed clueless worldview seems to be getting to you. This is beyond lying, do I need to call someone ? I’m not joking.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            You really don’t understand any of this, do you?

            For you Jews are individuals, and one extremist Jew is either not that representative or not really that important or that influential, and besides, Jews can adapt and change. But to you all Palestinians and all Arabs are all alike, one faceless, unchanging, undifferentiated, dehumanized, Jew-blood-craving mass. You are that dehumanizing. You refuse to see these non-Jewish persons as a person like you, as individuals, as a differentiated group of people along a spectrum, and would be horrified if Jews were similarly treated. In short you refuse to see Palestinians as human beings. That is why it is easy for you to occupy them. You are contemptuous, full of yourself, and transparently quite racist. Everything you say is simply a sneer, and not more than that. Really you do not see how ugly you are. But it is instructive, revealing, for us to see it.

            You just come across as rather stupidly monotonous and simple-minded. I’m sorry, this is the truth.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Holy hell.. so you realized saying the Palestinian leaders in the evidence are fake was getting too comical ? sorry but that’s already a done deal. You showed how big of a joke you are.
            And now you’re trying a different “approach” to ignore the ton of evidence proving without a doubt that I’m right by saying the Palestinian leadership, the ones who literally control the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank are “not really that important or that influential”. I’ll repeat: the Islamic Jihadists who rule of Gaza and the corrupt dictatorship who rules the West Bank, the ones who canceled the elections, are not that influential or important.
            See, pathetic idiotic nonsense like this is the reason I adore our little chats. This is pants on head insane and only show how deep your denial of reality goes that you’ll go to such lengths and effort to ignore the obvious evidence of the Palestinian leadership themselves yelling it in your clueless face.
            What’s next ? the Palestinian leadership are controlled by Jew Magic ? this has the same ‘gravitas’ as your previous hilarious attempts to avoid addressing the evidence.
            “all Palestinians and all Arabs are all alike” – not what I said, liar. The evidence is specifically about the ones who control the Palestinians, their own leadership. The evidence is right there, those are not videos of people on the street, those are the top of the Palestinian leadership yelling in your face what I have been saying they do for months and you try to ignore it by making childish excuses. This is great stuff.
            “You are that dehumanizing” – you’re a clueless liar who has a very hard time coming to term that I’m right as the evidence I provided clearly show. The ‘those are not real’ bit was comedy gold, I have to give you credit for that. Never seen anyone go so low before.
            “You refuse to see these non-Jewish persons as a person like you” – nope, liar. Again: Specifically the Palestinian leadership. See the evidence.
            “In short you refuse to see Palestinians as human beings” – so we’re collecting new lies ? great future material. Again: the Palestinian leadership, the ones who literally control the Palestinians, the ones you so hilariously claim are “not that important or influential”.
            “You are contemptuous, full of yourself, and transparently quite racist” – you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about and you seem to really lose your sanity when you’re faced with the uncomfortable truth. Can’t wait for your next excuse to not address the evidence I provided.
            “You just come across as rather stupidly monotonous and simple-minded. I’m sorry, this is the truth.” – you just tried to avoid addressing the evidence showing how you’re a clueless liar with saying the Palestinian leadership, literally the theocracy and dictatorships who control the Palestinians, both factions, are not that important or influential.
            Before that you seemed to claim they were fake and not the real. This is nuclear grade stupid. Sorry but that’s the truth.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            With your frequent really odd replies like these that bear no relation to reality and rather invert it, one has the eerie sense of talking to a madman. As always I’m happy to have the record speak for itself. You know this is not some kind of inane tennis match where you lob tedious, redundant nonsense balls from the baseline and I have to tediously return them.

            Reply to Comment
      • itshak Gordine

        Ignazio Cassis, the Swiss foreign minister, had suggested the same thing as President Trump a few months ago, saying that UNWRA was a machine for creating refugees. Many leftist circles vehemently criticized him for “lèse-majesté crime”. Making the slightest remark about the “Palestinian people” is an abominable crime, the worst of all.

        Reply to Comment
    2. itshak Gordine

      President Trump is absolutely right. You can not be a refugee from father to son for decades. It’s a scam. Millions of real refugees in Asia and Africa are being deprived of any help when they are really entitled to it.

      Reply to Comment
      • Ben

        “Millions of real refugees in Asia and Africa are being deprived of any help when they are really entitled to it.”

        The absolutely world-class, breathtaking hypocrisy of a right wing Israeli extremist lecturing us on African refugees being deprived of help.
        (And I thought Ido Geller takes the cake for people who think we can’t read!)
        Geezus, Halevy, you have quite a backlog of reading to do:

        REFUGEES
        https://972mag.com/tag/refugees/

        Reply to Comment
        • itshak Gordine

          No, Ben. President Trump has had the courage to say what many people think but do not dare to say: the “Palestinian” cause is a vast fraud created from scratch. Refugees from all over the world (including my parents) must fend for themselves, except for the holy “Palestinian refugee” who enjoys a pension from father to son.

          Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Halevy you do yourself no service by resorting to invoking “the courage,” of all things, of Donald Trump–the least courageous man actually that I can think of. Private Bone Spurs, an abject draft-dodging, actual-hero-abusing, conniving, base coward. An utter coward. You can have no idea what you are talking about. The only actual thing you emulate of Trump, with your racist-supremacist condescension and contempt is Trump’s gargantuan shallowness and fraudulence.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Trump, like Netanyahu, is a cowardly, opportunistic, self-serving demagogue. That you mistake demagoguery for courage is all too telling, Halevy. All too telling.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Let’s talk about real courage, Halevy. Not fake courage. Not taking the easy, prescribed, self-promoting way and calling it “patriotism.” Hilel Garmi is the courageous one. He is remarkably courageous, and he is most intelligent and articulate about it. You should listen closely to every word he speaks here:

            By +972 Magazine |Published September 7, 2018
            Conscientious objector to mark Jewish new year in prison
            Hilel Garmi is in prison for the third time, for refusing to serve in the Israeli military. His decision was partly inspired by one of the lead organizers of the Great Return March in Gaza.
            https://972mag.com/conscientious-objector-hilel-garmi-military-prison/137656/

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “…enjoys a pension…”

            Only a cold judeo-supremacist, Halevy, could turn the decades long suffering of the Palestinians into “enjoying a pension.” That takes amazing cold contempt, it takes treating non-Jewish human beings as untermenschen to the Jewish Overlord.

            Reply to Comment
          • Lewis from Afula

            The so-called “fakestinyan” non-people MUST dismantle themselves.
            Their fake existence is an insult to historical record.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Hey Lewis, please explain to me would you why you think the Israeli public continues to boycott Wagner’s music even though it is the perfect accompaniment to your project and Naftali Bennett’s and Ayalet Shaked’s project? ==>

            Israeli Public Radio Sparks Uproar After Playing Wagner Despite Boycott
            https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israeli-public-radio-plays-wagner-despite-country-s-unofficial-boycott-1.6434186

            It would seem to be right in line with the spirit of the times in Israel and the whole lebensraum-seizing, “Macht macht richtig” settlement enterprise in the occupied territories and with the Negev Bedouin. What gives?

            And then at the same time many of the same Israelis who want to boycott Wagner think an anti-occupation boycott of musicians who play in Israel is beyond the pale. Any contradictions here? Any hypocrisies? Ya think?

            Any thoughts?

            Reply to Comment
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