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Palestinian poet convicted of inciting terror in Facebook poem

Dareen Tatour was arrested in 2015 and held in house arrest for nearly three years for publishing a poem on Facebook. On Thursday morning, an Israeli court convicted her of incitement to violence and support for a terrorist organization.

By +972 Magazine Staff

Palestinian poet Dareen Tatour (right) seen with her attorney, Gaby Lasky, at the Nazareth Magistrate's Court on May 3, 2018. Tatour was convicted of incitement and support for terrorism after publishing a number of poems on Facebook in 2015. (Oren Ziv/Activestills.org)

Palestinian poet Dareen Tatour (right) seen with her attorney, Gaby Lasky, at the Nazareth Magistrate’s Court on May 3, 2018. Tatour was convicted of incitement and support for terrorism after publishing a number of poems on Facebook in 2015. (Oren Ziv/Activestills.org)

An Israeli court convicted poet Dareen Tatour, a Palestinian citizen of Israel, of incitement to violence and support for terrorism on Thursday. The conviction comes nearly three years after she was first arrested for publishing her poetry on social media.

Tatour, 36, hails from the village of Reineh near Nazareth. She was arrested on October 15, 2015 after publishing a number of poems on her Facebook page, including “Qawem Ya Sha’abi, Qawemhum” (“Resist my people, resist them”).

That poem was published in 2015 (read an English translation here) at the height of Palestinian protests across Israel and the West Bank and during a wave of so-called lone-wolf stabbing and vehicular attacks against Israeli security forces and civilians, largely in Jerusalem and Hebron. A few days after Tatour posted “Resist my people, resist them” on Facebook, police stormed her house and arrested her in the middle of the night.

Following her arrest, Tatour was imprisoned for three months, then released and put under house arrest in an apartment in Kiryat Ono, just outside Tel Aviv, at the demand of Israeli authorities. She was forced to wear an ankle monitor, was forbidden from using the internet, the phone, or any other means of communication.

In May 2017, an Israeli court decided to ease the conditions of her arrest, allowing her to live under house arrest in her home village, where she may only leave her house accompanied by a custodian.

In November of 2016, Tatour testified and admitted that she had written the statuses. She explained that she was protesting the occupation, denouncing the crimes committed against Palestinians by the Israeli army and the settlers, adding that the police translation distorted her texts. Throughout the trial, the defense called a cast of experts on Hebrew and Arabic literature to testify about the various meanings of specific words and phrases used by Tatour in her art, as well as the nature of political poetry, and how even some of the most oppressive regimes in the world have tolerated dissident poets.

MK Hanin Zoabi, attorney Gaby Lasky, and Dareen Tatour stand at the start of Tatour's sentencing hearing. May 3, 2018. (Oren Ziv / Activestills.org)

MK Hanin Zoabi, attorney Gaby Lasky, and Dareen Tatour stand at the start of Tatour’s sentencing hearing. May 3, 2018. (Oren Ziv / Activestills.org)

“The court convicted me of terrorism. If that’s my terrorism, I give the world a terrorism of love,” Tatour said after the verdict.

In July 2016, over 150 literary icons, including Alice Walker and Dave Eggers, signed a letter in solidarity with Tatour, calling Tatour’s imprisonment “part of a larger pattern of Israeli repression against all Palestinians.” Over 1,000 Israelis signed a petition in August 2017 calling for Tatour’s release.

Asked if she was optimistic, Tatour replied, “So-so. I am trying to remain optimistic. There is a poem in my book about handcuffs, which terrifyingly enough came true. They say that every poet is a prophet, and I feel that. In this country we cannot be too optimistic, but I am trying my best.”

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    COMMENTS

    1. Togs

      It is a sad and sorry judge to convict a poet

      Reply to Comment
      • Ido

        Not when said poet is calling for murder.

        Reply to Comment
    2. Concerned Citizen

      I am a believer in free speech. At least until it infringes on others’ rights. It does a great disservice to the reader and to Ms. Tatour that you do not include the poem she was put on trial for. We do not know if she was, like the Israeli trial states, inciting violence. We only know the full extent of her punishment and not of her actions. At minimum I would have added a link to her work. Free exposure to Ms. Tatour and her work.

      Reply to Comment
        • amanda

          their mere existence is an act of defiance.

          Reply to Comment
        • Ben

          True. And consider that that popular poet, Ben Caspit, a mainstream Israeli TV journalist, published this nice poem, and no one said a word:

          “In the case of the girls,
          We should exact a price
          At some other opportunity,
          In the dark,
          Without witnesses and cameras.”

          Beautiful isn’t it?
          And no one expressed horror. No one in the Israeli leadership called it incitement. Not even once. “Public Security Minister” Gilad Erdan said not a word. He alerted no emergency shock troops. He must have been drunk that day, or home with a cold, I’m sure.

          Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Because you’re comparing what a journalist said which was taken out of context and badly translated, as he explained in detail (she should be arrested out of sight and not turned into a Palestinian propaganda event which is her purpose) to a poem calling for the slaughter of Jews (“..And follow the caravan of martyrs”) the same time the incitement coming from the PLO and Hamas lead to the “knife Intifadah”. She’s also a fan, apparently, of Islamic Jihad, an Islamic Jihadist terrorist organization who openly call for the elimination of Israel and the murder of Jews. But I do believe her calling for the slaughter of Jews led to her arrest.

            https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Fighting-a-shaming-campaign-with-the-truth-520014

            Hey, at least you didn’t outright lie again like you did here about Caspit:
            https://972mag.com/why-the-pa-cant-and-wont-stops-paying-prisoners-families/134833/

            How odd that neither you nor this news blog posted the actual lines of incitement.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            I see that Gilad Erdan’s enforcer in the Propaganda and Correct Thinking Wing has paid us a visit to accost on poetics and literary interpretation and rough us up a bit. I stand by my interpretations and I interpret the enforcer’s crude, hackneyed, repetitive discourse of distortion and slander as a transparent effort to distract himself and everyone else from very basic issues. As Michael Omer-Man tweeted about this article:
            “Dareen Tatour was arrested in 2015 and held in house arrest for nearly three years — for publishing a poem on Facebook. If you’re not outraged by this then you don’t care about free speech. Period. End of story.”

            And about Caspit? Suuure, Ido, suuuurre. We were born yesterday.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            This is what you said, and I quote: “For a fact, Ben Caspit, a mainstream Israeli journalist, and not just him, said that the same 17-year-old Palestinian girl should have bad things done to her by Jewish men in the dark when cameras aren’t running”.
            What you said is an outright lie. The gang rape by Jews insinuation is a lovely touch. Did you or didn’t you day that ? this is a yes or no question.
            This is what Caspit said: “the price of the girl’s provocations should be handled out of sight, with no cameras or witnesses around”. Meaning not to turn it into another shaming video that would go viral on social media. In fact the article he wrote had the title ‘The Power in Restraint’. He explained this and how what he said was misinterpreted and lied about:
            https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Fighting-a-shaming-campaign-with-the-truth-520014

            You weren’t born yesterday, you lied. Plain and simple.
            Now that you mention this, you never addressed the video I posted of tamimi calling for Jew slaughter (“shahada”) and the “liberation of Palestine” (A.K.A all Israel, from the river to the sea). Please, go ahead.
            And of course you just now didn’t even mention the actual point, the poet in question calling for Jew murder which was the reason she was arrested. She wasn’t in house arrest for publishing a poem on flowers blooming, it was about incitement for Jew murder. Why did you neglect to mention this little fact ?
            Calling me Gilad Erdan’s enforcer is hilarious though, so thanks for the laugh.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Suuure, Ido, suuuure. Tell it to the Marines. All internet trolls distract. We decline the invitation.
            There is nothing whatsoever wrong with my original summary of what the journalist said, and my “and not just him,” clinches the case that you are slandering me. As if it needed clinching. And as if we care. Case closed. Blather incontinently all you want. And was the poet conceivably advocating Druze or Arab persons do what he advised be done to “the girls…in the dark”? Yes? No? Or maybe he wanted to enlist African refugees, excuse me “infiltrators”? I had no idea the poet’s conception of “we” was so all-inclusive. Thanks for informing us what a swell, multiculural, all-inclusive, equal-opportunity, non-racist guy is the poet of “in the dark.”
            Now stop following me around like an eager puppy dog who isn’t house trained and wets himself when he gets excited. Say hi to Gilad for us and tell him he should probably send someone out with less heavy handed anti-Semitizing tactics and not pick a boy to do a man’s job. And no, we are not, of all things for heavens sake, accepting his henchmen as official translators of any Hebrew into any English.
            Meanwhile dear reader, though I doubt anyone cares to have read this far into this tiresome micro-exchange, the real story is not this nonsense about which this kibbitzer has his hair on fire, it’s the story written above by +972 Magazine Staff.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            By pointing out how you lied, literally quoting you and mentioning how you didn’t address facts: the actual incitement in question (which neither you nor the writer mention), how you didn’t address the video where Tamimi expresses her support for Jew murder is “distracting” ?
            All your lies, ignorance and attempts to dodge my questions and your refusal to back up your claims or refute the facts I stated are all here for all to see in the comments section:
            https://972mag.com/why-the-pa-cant-and-wont-stops-paying-prisoners-families/134833/

            “There is nothing whatsoever wrong with my original summary of what the journalist said” – you mean besides outright lying and making stuff up he never said ? like I said, your gang rape by Jews insinuation is lovely.
            Pointing out in detail how you lied, providing proof for it, actually posting what Caspit said with a link to an article where he explains how people twisted and lied about what he said is “slandering you” ?
            Do you understand how all of this makes you look like a joke ?
            “was the poet conceivably advocating Druze or Arab” – what are you talking about ? which part of her call to the Palestinian people to follow the trail of Jew murderers is too complicated for you to grasp ? it’s called incitement, the reason she was arrested for.
            You mention anti-semitism ? you are still in denial about the Palestinian President himself being an anti-semite Holocaust denier ? he made a very interesting speech a couple of days ago, are you familiar with it ? I believe the New York Times summed it up nicely:
            https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/02/opinion/abbas-palestine-israel.html

            “the story written above by +972 Magazine Staff” – odd that the article, like you, never touch on the actual lines of Jew killing incitement, the ones that led to the arrest.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            This is weirdly confused and misconstrues everything.

            I’ve never seen someone so absurdly, offensively promiscuous with the words “lie, lying, lied, and liar.” And so ready to slander just about everyone. And patronize just about everyone (“what part of this don’t you understand…did you miss…?…did you know the Germans had a word for it they called it ‘Judenrein’….the word martyr is the term for….terrorism in Palestinian society…”). Nor such a promiscuous anti-Semitizer (“Jew murderers…murder of Jews…Jew murderer…Jew-Free…Judenrein…Jew killing…Jew murderer….”). Feeding off a weltanschaung that is simple-minded, black and white, concrete, and wildly stereotyping.

            You accuse me of twisting Caspit’s words but plenty of Israelis perfectly fluent in both Hebrew and English, and with their heads screwed on straight and their hearts in the right place, agree with me on Caspit and said so. Your efforts to whitewash this won’t wash. And Caspit can walk back what he said all he wants—he would do that wouldn’t he?—I maintain he insinuated something grave that you don’t want to admit he insinuated. We’ll have to disagree. One of your techniques is to take interpretations and call them “facts” and then fling the ad hominem “liar” at those who disagree with your contentious interpretations. This constitutes an immature style of argument.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Ben, I have pointed out where you lied, in detail. I quoted you, where you made stuff up, it’s right there above including a link to the article where I pointed out your lies, delusional bias and ignorance in great detail:
            https://972mag.com/why-the-pa-cant-and-wont-stops-paying-prisoners-families/134833/

            Saying “no you didn’t!” won’t somehow make all of this go away. It’s pathetic.
            I literally quoted you lying, how is this “slander” ?
            Pointing out how you ignore facts and doesn’t seem to know what you’re talking about is now “patronizing” ? I ask again, like I always do: which of the facts I pointed out here and in the link above is wrong. Go ahead.
            Why are you talking about ‘Judenrein’ without mentioning the context ? you having no idea what is the difference between ‘Israeli’ and ‘Jew’ which I explained to you about 7 times in detail, how the Palestinian president himself wants a Jew-free “Palestine” which is, literally, Judenrein.
            Why are you ignoring this ? like you ignore the fact that the Palestinian president is a Holocaust denier and anti-semite ? why are you refusing to address this for literally 8 or 9 times now ?
            When someone say their goal is to kill Jews, his organization literally pays a lot of money to have Jews killed, his organization is literally killing Jews as part of their stated mission, it’s quite accurate to call him a Jew murderer.
            note that I didn’t say ‘Israeli’. I hope that by now you grasp the distinction and how you were very, very wrong. I don’t think the PLO pays to kill Arabs, Druze, Samaritans and Beduin. All Israelis. They pay to kill Jews. Do you understand ?
            You seem to have a very problematic approach to reality which doesn’t suite your pre-defined delusional world view.
            I accuse you of lying about what Caspit said because you did, I posted what he said and what you did, including your Jew gang rape insinuation which I must admit tells a lot about you. I also posted an article explaining what Caspit said and how it was twisted and taken out of context.
            I even pointed out the title of his article where he wrote that, which tells quite a bit what was his intention (the power of restraint) and here is the actual original article, use Google translate or something. The first paragraph praises the soldiers’ restraint for not harming Tamimi.
            http://www.maariv.co.il/journalists/Article-614459

            That reminds me, why haven’t you responded yet (4 time I ask) to the vido of Tamimi where she praises the killers of jews and talks about “Palestine” which I’m sure by now you grasp that it means all of Israel and not Just the West Bank ? it’s in the first link.
            “I maintain he insinuated something grave” – I post the actual word he said. You seem to be very fond of insinuating, especially about jews raping people.
            I repeat: you are yet to point out any of the facts I stated (see the first link here) and refute them. Go ahead. It’s also hilarious that you mention “immature style of argument”, you mean pointing in detail where you are wrong, where you lied and where you obviously had no idea what you’re talking about is “immature” but you having a temper tantrum over it is what exactly ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Ben, I have pointed out where you lied, in detail. I quoted you, where you made stuff up, it’s right there above including a link to the article where I pointed out your lies, delusional bias and ignorance in great detail:
            https://972mag.com/why-the-pa-cant-and-wont-stops-paying-prisoners-families/134833/

            Saying “no you didn’t!” won’t somehow make all of this go away. It’s pathetic.
            I literally quoted you lying, how is this “slander” ?
            Pointing out how you ignore facts and doesn’t seem to know what you’re talking about is now “patronizing” ? I ask again, like I always do: which of the facts I pointed out here and in the link above is wrong. Go ahead.
            Why are you talking about ‘Judenrein’ without mentioning the context ? you having no idea what is the difference between ‘Israeli’ and ‘Jew’ which I explained to you about 7 times in detail, how the Palestinian president himself wants a Jew-free “Palestine” which is, literally, Judenrein.
            Why are you ignoring this ? like you ignore the fact that the Palestinian president is a Holocaust denier and anti-semite ? why are you refusing to address this for literally 8 or 9 times now ?
            When someone say their goal is to kill Jews, his organization literally pays a lot of money to have Jews killed, his organization is literally killing Jews as part of their stated mission, t’s quite accurate to call him a Jew murderer.
            note that I didn’t say ‘Israeli’. I hope that by now you grasp the distinction and how you were very, very wrong. I don’t think the PLO pays to kill Arabs, Druze, Samaritans and Beduin. All Israelis. They pay to kill Jews. Do you understand ?
            You seem to have a very problematic approach to reality which doesn’t suite your pre-defined delusional world view.
            I accuse you of lying about what Caspit said because you did, I posted what he said and what you did, including your Jew gang rape insinuation which I must admit tells a lot about you. I also posted an article explaining what Caspit said and how it was twisted and taken out of context.
            I even pointed out the title of his article where he wrote that, which tells quite a bit what was his intention (the pwer of restraint) and here is the actual original article, use Google translate or something. The first paragraph praises the soldiers’ restraint for not harming Tamimi.
            http://www.maariv.co.il/journalists/Article-614459

            That reminds me, why haven’t you responded yet (4 time I ask) to the video of Tamimi where she praises the killers of Jews and talks about “Palestine” which I’m sure by now you grasp that it means all of Israel and not Just the West Bank ? it’s in the first link.
            “I maintain he insinuated something grave” – I post the actual word he said. You seem to be very fond of insinuating, especially about Jews raping people.
            I repeat: you are yet to point out any of the facts I stated (see the first link here) and refute them. Go ahead. It’s also hilarious that you mention “immature style of argument”, you mean pointing in detail where you are wrong, where you lied and where you obviously had no idea what you’re talking about is “immature” but you having a temper tantrum over it is what exactly ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Ben, I have pointed out where you lied, in detail, several times. I quoted you, where you made stuff up, it’s right there above including a link to the article where I pointed out your lies, delusional bias and ignorance in great detail:
            https://972mag.com/why-the-pa-cant-and-wont-stops-paying-prisoners-families/134833/

            Saying “no you didn’t!” won’t somehow make all of this go away. It’s pathetic.
            I literally quoted you lying, how is this “slander” ?
            Pointing out how you ignore facts and doesn’t seem to know what you’re talking about is now “patronizing” ? I ask again, like I always do: which of the facts I pointed out here and in the link above is wrong. Go ahead.
            Why are you talking about ‘Judenrein’ without mentioning the context ? you having no idea what is the difference between ‘Israeli’ and ‘Jew’ which I explained to you about 7 times in detail, how the Palestinian president himself wants a Jew-free “Palestine” which is, literally, Judenrein.
            Why are you ignoring this ? like you ignore the fact that the Palestinian president is a Holocaust denier and anti-semite ? why are you refusing to address this for literally 8 or 9 times now ?
            When someone say their goal is to kill Jews, his organization literally pays a lot of money to have Jews killed, his organization is literally killing Jews as part of their stated mission, t’s quite accurate to call him a Jew murderer.
            note that I didn’t say ‘Israeli’. I hope that by now you grasp the distinction and how you were very, very wrong. I don’t think the PLO pays to kill Arabs, Druze, Samaritans and Beduin. All Israelis. They pay to kill Jews. Do you understand ?
            You seem to have a very problematic approach to reality which doesn’t suite your pre-defined delusional world view.
            I accuse you of lying about what Caspit said because you did, I posted what he said and what you did, including your Jew gang rape insinuation which I must admit tells a lot about you. I also posted an article explaining what Caspit said and how it was twisted and taken out of context.
            I even pointed out the title of his article where he wrote that, which tells quite a bit what was his intention (the pwer of restraint) and here is the actual original article, use Google translate or something. The first paragraph praises the soldiers’ restraint for not harming Tamimi.
            http://www.maariv.co.il/journalists/Article-614459

            That reminds me, why haven’t you responded yet (4 time I ask) to the video of Tamimi where she praises the killers of Jews and talks about “Palestine” which I’m sure by now you grasp that it means all of Israel and not Just the West Bank ? it’s in the first link.
            “I maintain he insinuated something grave” – I post the actual word he said. You seem to be very fond of insinuating, especially about Jews raping people.
            I repeat: you are yet to point out any of the facts I stated (see the first link here) and refute them. Go ahead. It’s also hilarious that you mention “immature style of argument”, you mean pointing in detail where you are wrong, where you lied and where you obviously had no idea what you’re talking about is “immature” but you having a temper tantrum over it is what exactly ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Ben, I have pointed out where you lied, in detail. I quoted you, where you made stuff up, it’s right there above including a link to the article where I pointed out your lies, delusional bias and ignorance in great detail:
            https://972mag.com/why-the-pa-cant-and-wont-stops-paying-prisoners-families/134833/

            Saying “no you didn’t!” won’t somehow make all of this go away. It’s pathetic.
            I literally quoted you lying, how is this slander ?
            Pointing out how you ignore facts and doesn’t seem to know what you’re talking about is now “patronizing” ? I ask again, like I always do: which of the facts I pointed out here and in the link above is wrong.
            Why are you talking about ‘Judenrein’ without mentioning the context ? you having no idea what is the difference between ‘Israeli’ and ‘Jew’ which I explained to you about 7 times in detail, how the Palestinian president himself wants a Jew-free “Palestine” which is, literally, Judenrein.
            Why are you ignoring this ? like you ignore the fact that the Palestinian president is a Holocaust denier and anti-semite ? why are you refusing to address this for literally 8 or 9 times ?
            When someone say their goal is to kill Jews, his organization literally pays a lot of money to have Jews killed, his organization is literally killing Jews as part of their stated mission, t’s quite accurate to call him a Jew murderer.
            note that I didn’t say ‘Israeli’. I hope that by now you grasp the distinction and how you were very, very wrong. I don’t think the PLO pays to kill Arabs, Druze, Samaritans and Beduin. All Israelis. They pay to kill Jews. Do you understand ?
            You seem to have a very problematic approach to reality which doesn’t suite your pre-defined delusional world view.
            I accuse you of lying about what Caspit said because you did, I posted what he said and what you did, including your Jew gang rape insinuation which I must admit tells a lot about you. I also posted an article explaining what Caspit said and how it was twisted and taken out of context.
            I even pointed out the title of his article where he wrote that, which tells quite a bit what was his intention (the pwer of restraint) and here is the actual original article, use Google translate or something. The first paragraph praises the soldiers’ restraint for not harming Tamimi.
            http://www.maariv.co.il/journalists/Article-614459

            That reminds me, why haven’t you responded yet (4 time I ask) to the video of Tamimi where she praises the killers of Jews and talks about “Palestine” which I’m sure by now you grasp that it means all of Israel and not Just the West Bank ? it’s in the first link.
            “I maintain he insinuated something grave” – I post the actual word he said. You seem to be very fond of insinuating, especially about Jews raping people.
            I repeat: you are yet to point out any of the facts I stated (see the first link here) and refute them. Go ahead. It’s also hilarious that you mention “immature style of argument”, you mean pointing in detail where you are wrong, where you lied and where you obviously had no idea what you’re talking about is “immature” but you having a temper tantrum over it is what exactly ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Ben, I have pointed out where you lied, in detail, multiple times. I quoted you, where you made stuff up – it’s right there above including a link to the article where I pointed out your lies, delusional bias and ignorance in great detail.
            Saying “no you didn’t!” won’t somehow make all of this go away. It’s pathetic.
            I literally quoted you lying, how is this “slander” ?
            Pointing out how you ignore facts and doesn’t seem to know what you’re talking about is now “patronizing” ? I ask again, like I always do: which of the facts I pointed out here and in the link above is wrong. Go ahead.
            Why are you talking about ‘Judenrein’ without mentioning the context ? you having no idea what is the difference between ‘Israeli’ and ‘Jew’ which I explained to you about 7 times in detail, how the Palestinian president himself wants a Jew-free “Palestine” which is, literally, Judenrein.
            Why are you ignoring this ? like you ignore the fact that the Palestinian president is a Holocaust denier and anti-semite ? why are you refusing to address this for literally 8 or 9 times now ?
            When someone say their goal is to kill Jews, his organization literally pays a lot of money to have Jews killed, his organization is literally killing Jews as part of their stated mission, t’s quite accurate to call him a Jew murderer.
            note that I didn’t say ‘Israeli’. I hope that by now you grasp the distinction and how you were very, very wrong. I don’t think the PLO pays to kill Arabs, Druze, Samaritans and Beduin. All Israelis. They pay to kill Jews. Do you understand ?
            You seem to have a very problematic approach to reality which doesn’t suite your pre-defined delusional world view.
            I accuse you of lying about what Caspit said because you did, I posted what he said and what you did, including your Jew gang rape insinuation which I must admit tells a lot about you. I also posted an article explaining what Caspit said and how it was twisted and taken out of context.
            I even pointed out the title of his article where he wrote that, which tells quite a bit what was his intention (the pwer of restraint) and here is the actual original article, use Google translate or something. The first paragraph praises the soldiers’ restraint for not harming Tamimi.
            http://www.maariv.co.il/journalists/Article-614459

            That reminds me, why haven’t you responded yet (4 time I ask) to the video of Tamimi where she praises the killers of Jews and talks about “Palestine” which I’m sure by now you grasp that it means all of Israel and not Just the West Bank ? it’s in the first link.
            “I maintain he insinuated something grave” – I post the actual word he said. You seem to be very fond of insinuating, especially about Jews raping people.
            I repeat: you are yet to point out any of the facts I stated (see the first link here) and refute them. Go ahead. It’s also hilarious that you mention “immature style of argument”, you mean pointing in detail where you are wrong, where you lied and where you obviously had no idea what you’re talking about is “immature” but you having a temper tantrum over it is what exactly ?

            Reply to Comment
        • Ido

          Calling to follow the murderers of Jews doesn’t seem ‘inciting to violence’ to you ? especially at a time when exactly such incitement lead to the “knife Intifadah” ? I don’t understand you but then I’m not delusional.

          Reply to Comment
      • john

        a poem cannot infringe your rights. even under the tsar, tchernichovsky’s poetry didn’t warrant arrest, – ‘Give me my sword, I won’t return it to its scabbard / What did my lips elicit? I want battles’ – nor did bialik’s – ‘with furious cruelty / We drink your blood mercilessly / If the whole nation has awoken and risen / and proclaimed: revenge!’
        instead of relying on bruce, feel free to do your own research in the future.

        Reply to Comment
        • john

          “Not all martyrs were combatants or partisans. A young Palestinian boy, Ahmad Hassam Yusuf Musa, killed near Ramallah in 2008 was, like all Palestinians killed by Israel, remembered as a martyr. His poster does not carry the insignia of any political faction or any liberation slogans.”

          Reply to Comment
    3. Itshak Gordin Halevy

      It is the price to pay for hatred.

      Reply to Comment
      • Ben

        Another nifty, creepy Orwellian telegram from Halevy.

        Reply to Comment
        • Ben

          Telegram to Halevy from Dareen Tatour:

          “The court convicted me of terrorism,” Tatour said after the verdict. “If that’s my terrorism, I give the world a terrorism of love.”

          Reply to Comment
        • Itshak Gordin Halevy

          No, in her “poems” she was encouraging stabbing and car rams. Such a behavior is punished everywhere in the world.

          Reply to Comment
    4. Sheldon Ranz

      Where did she call for the murder of Jews? And whose translation are you using, Ido?

      Reply to Comment
      • Ido

        So you think she meant to literally follow a driving caravan of Jew murderers ? and her support for jihadist terrorists who openly call for the murder of Jews was taken out of context ?

        Reply to Comment
      • john

        he thinks ‘jew-killer’ is the sole interpretation of ‘martyr’.
        he’s incapable of critical engagement, let alone the imagination necessary to analyze poetry. please everybody don’t feed the troll.
        the detention of ms. tatour is a threat to freedom of expression for every israeli citizen – which they both are.

        Reply to Comment
        • Ido

          In the Palestinian narrative “martyr” or “shahid” is a term used to describe someone who died through violent means, for example suicide bombings. Posters glorifying the latest shahids on the walls of Palestinian cities are not exactly subtle. It’s part of the worship and praise for terrorism in Palestinian society.
          The term replaces the previous similar “feda’i” which I’m sure you heard of it.
          You need common sense, not “Imagination necessary to analyze poetry”. If you think this means anything else, like someone who refused to convert from Islam, you are out of your mind.

          Reply to Comment
          • Bruce Gould

            @Ido: And all of this, apparently without have talked to a single, actual Palestinian. They constitute 20% of Israel’s citizens, you know.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Um, you do realize that I’m an Israeli, right ? that I meet more Palestinians, Israeli citizens or otherwise on a daily basis, right ? what on earth makes you say something as dumb as that ? the fact that 20% of Israelis are Arabs is my main argument point when I explain to idiots what is the distinction between ‘Jew’ and ‘Israeli’.

            Reply to Comment
          • Bruce Gould

            @Ido: I’m not hearing you say that you actually know one single Palestinian personally, I’m not hearing you say that you’ve had actual conversations with Palestinians and here’s what they say, I’m not hearing you say you’ve hung out with Ahmed for years and his view is such and such.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Seriously ? um, OK. I know more than one Palestinian, personally. I worked and went to school with Palestinians. I meet more Palestinians at the bus station in the morning than most of the people commenting on this blog will in their lifetime. I have conversations with Palestinians on a daily basis.
            1 out of 5 Israelis is Arab, many identify as Palestinians, you honestly thought I never met one ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Bruce Gould

            @Ido: Ok, so tell us what they think of the Dareen Tatour trial, tell us what they say about the poem and what it means, tell us if they want to make hummous from the blood of Jewish children (which seems to be what a lot of Jewish Israelis think), tell us if they read her poem and feel ‘incited’….?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Already posted what I think about it 4 or 5 times in this comments section. Already posted why she was arrested including the relevant lines multiple times. I don’t think she should spend any prison time after her house arrest but people died because of similar incitement (especially the Al-Aqsa nonsense) so it shouldn’t be disregarded either.

            Reply to Comment
          • Bruce Gould

            @Ido: That’s ok, you can post it again.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            OK, it is Monday morning now and it is pretty evident, to me at least, that Ido can’t answer Bruce’s request that Ido, via “actual conversations with Palestinians…tell us what they think of the Dareen Tatour trial, tell us what they say about the poem and what it means…tell us if they read her poem and feel ‘incited’….?”

            Ido’s interactions with Palestinians would seem pretty much limited to “meet[ing] Palestinians at the bus station in the morning.”

            Ido “”meets” Palestinians “at the bus station” — but if they’re most of them drooling, slobbering “Jew murderers” why does he talk to them and what on Earth does he say to them at the bus stop?

            “Hey wassup bro, didja kill any Jews today? What spices do you add to your hummous? Any Jew blood? And don’t forget, we Israelis invented hummous! And 90% of the world’s technology, so if you boycott us you need to go back to carving letters on clay tablets with rocks. Have a great day my Palestinian friend!”

            “I meet more Palestinians at the bus station in the morning”

            As Ido himself might say, seriously? Um. OK. So what do you “meet” about? The two state solution? You “meet” them to ask about Dareen Tatour? From which comes your vast knowledge? Why do you “meet” at the bus station? If I were you I’d meet at a café. Wassup with that?
            (Don’t answer, the questions are rhetorical and satirical.)

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            I thought he asked what I thought about it, see my post (“Already posted what I think about it”) not what other Arabs did. We talk about TV series, movies and their disappointment from the Arab Knesset members, not Jew killing inciting poems. I don’t need to ask them what the poem means, I have basic common sense. If you think the word “Shahid” in her poem means something other than what it means in Palestinian culture, what it means every time they mention it, from wall posters praising Jew murderers to yells of Palestinian leaders calling for Shahids to march on Jerusalem, you need a reality check.
            Also just noticed this gem: “tell us if they want to make hummous from the blood of Jewish children, which seems to be what a lot of Jewish Israelis think”, is that a joke ? that’s the stupidest thing I heard on this News blog so far it that’s saying a lot.
            Actually Palestinians use the old Nazi blood libel but they switch it to Muslim blood of course, I can actually back up this fact, can you back up your nonsense ? I honestly really like to see it.
            https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-revives-passover-blood-libel/

            Ben, if you think an Israeli who was born in Israel and lived there for years never met an Arab, who make 20% of the population, you are crazier than I thought, which is quite impressive to be honest.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            I thought he asked what I thought about it, see my post (“Already posted what I think about it”) not what other arabs did. We talk about TV series, movies and their disappointed from the Arab Knesset members, not Jew killing inciting poems. I don’t need to ask them what the poem means, I have basic common sense. If you think the word “Shahid” in her poem means something other than what it obviously means in palestinian culture, what it means every time they mention it, from wall posters praising Jew murderers to yells of Palestinian leaders calling for Shahids to march on jerusalem, you need a reality check.
            Also just noticed this gem: “tell us if they want to make hummous from the blood of Jewish children, which seems to be what a lot of Jewish Israelis think”, is that a joke ? that’s the stupidest thing I heard on this News blog so far it that’s saying a lot.
            Actually Palestinians use the old Nazi blood libel but they switch it to Muslim blood of course, I can actually back up this fact, can you back up your nonsense ? I honestly really like to see it.
            Ben, if you think an Israeli who was born in Israel in lived there for quite a few decades never met an Arab, who make 20% of the population, you are crazier than I thought, which is quite impressive to be honest.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            I thought he asked what I thought about it, see my post (“Already posted what I think about it”) not what other arabs did. We talk about TV series, movies and their disappointed from the Arab Knesset members, not Jew killing inciting poems. I don’t need to ask them what the poem means, I have basic common sense. If you think the word “Shahid” in her poem means something other than what it obviously means in palestinian culture, what it means every time they mention it, from wall posters praising Jew murderers to yells of Palestinian leaders calling for Shahids to march on jerusalem, you need a reality check.
            Also just noticed this gem: “tell us if they want to make hummous from the blood of Jewish children, which seems to be what a lot of Jewish Israelis think”, is that a joke ? that’s the stupidest thing I heard on this News blog so far it that’s saying a lot.
            Actually Palestinians use the old Nazi blood libel but they switch it to Muslim blood of course, I can actually back up this fact, can you back up your nonsense ? I honestly really like to see it.
            Ben, if you think an Israeli who was born in Israel and lived there for years never met an Arab, who make 20% of the population, you are crazier than I thought, which is quite impressive to be honest.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            I thought he asked what I thought about it, see my post (“Already posted what I think about it”, see above) not what other Arabs did. We talk about TV series, movies and their disappointed from the Arab Knesset members, not Jew killing inciting poems. I don’t need to ask them what the poem means, I have basic common sense. If you think the word “Shahid” in her poem means something other than what it obviously means in Palestinian culture, what it means every time they mention it, from wall posters praising Jew murderers to yells of Palestinian leaders calling for shahids to march on Jerusalem, you need a reality check.
            Also just noticed this gem: “tell us if they want to make hummous from the blood of Jewish children, which seems to be what a lot of Jewish Israelis think”, is that a joke ? that’s the stupidest thing I heard on this News blog so far it that’s saying a lot.
            Actually Palestinians use the old Nazi blood libel but they switch it to Muslim blood of course, I can actually back up this fact, can you back up your nonsense ? I honestly really like to see it.
            Ben, if you think an Israeli who was born in Israel in lived there for quite a few decades never met an Arab, who make 20% of the population, you are crazier than I thought, which is quite impressive to be honest.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            I thought he asked what I thought about it, see my post (“Already posted what I think about it”) not what other Arabs did. We talk about TV series, movies and their disappointed from the Arab Knesset members, not Jew killing inciting poems. I don’t need to ask them what the poem means, I have basic common sense. If you think the word “Shahid” in her poem means something other than what it obviously means in Palestinian culture, what it means every time they mention it, from wall posters praising Jew murderers to yells of Palestinian leaders calling for Shahids to march on Jerusalem, you need a reality check.
            Also just noticed this gem: “tell us if they want to make hummus from the blood of Jewish children, which seems to be what a lot of Jewish Israelis think”, is that a joke ? that’s the stupidest thing I heard in some time.
            Actually Palestinians use the old Nazi blood libel but they switch it to Muslim blood of course, I can actually back up this fact, can you back up your nonsense ? I honestly really like to see it.
            Ben, if you think an Israeli who was born in Israel in lived there for quite a few decades never met an Arab, who make 20% of the population, you are crazier than I thought, which is quite impressive to be honest.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            I thought he asked what I thought about it, see my post (“Already posted what I think about it”) not what other Arabs did. We talk about TV series, movies and their disappointed from the Arab Knesset members, not Jew killing inciting poems. I don’t need to ask them what the poem means, I have basic common sense. If you think the word “Shahid” in her poem means something other than what it obviously means in palestinian culture, what it means every time they mention it, from wall posters praising Jew murderers to yells of Palestinian leaders calling for Shahids to march on Jerusalem, you need a reality check.
            Also just noticed this gem: “tell us if they want to make hummous from the blood of Jewish children, which seems to be what a lot of Jewish Israelis think”, is that a joke ? that’s the stupidest thing I heard in some time.
            Actually Palestinians use the old Nazi blood libel but they switch it to Muslim blood of course, I can actually back up this fact, can you back up your nonsense ? I honestly really like to see it.
            Ben, if you think an Israeli who was born in Israel in lived there for quite a few decades never met an Arab, who make 20% of the population, you are crazier than I thought, which is quite impressive to be honest.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            I thought he asked what I thought about it, see my post (“Already posted what I think about it”) not what other Arabs did.
            We talk about TV series, movies and their disappointed from the Arab Knesset members, not poetry. I don’t need to ask them what the poem means, I have basic common sense. If you think the word “Shahid” in her poem means something other than what it obviously means in Palestinian society, what it means every time they mention it, from wall posters praising Jew murderers to yells of Palestinian leaders calling for Shahids to march on Jerusalem, you need a reality check.
            Also just noticed this gem: “tell us if they want to make hummus from the blood of Jewish children, which seems to be what a lot of Jewish Israelis think”, that’s a joke, right ? actually Palestinians have a habit of using the old Nazi blood libel, I can actually back this up with evidence, can you back up your nonsense ? I honestly really like to see it.
            https://www.timesofisrael.com/temple-mount-preacher-jews-make-passover-bread-with-childrens-blood/

            Ben, if you think an Israeli who was born in Israel in lived there for quite a few decades never met an Arab, who make 20% of the population, you are crazier than I thought, which is quite impressive to be honest.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            I thought he asked what I thought about it, see my post (“Already posted what I think about it”) not what other Arabs did. We talk about TV series, movies and their disappointed from the Arab Knesset members, not Jew killing inciting poems. I don’t need to ask them what the poem means, I have basic common sense. If you think the word “Shahid” in her poem means something other than what it obviously means in Palestinian culture, what it means every time they mention it, from wall posters praising Jew murderers to yells of Palestinian leaders calling for Shahids to march on jerusalem, you need a reality check.
            Also just noticed this gem: “tell us if they want to make hummous from the blood of Jewish children, which seems to be what a lot of Jewish Israelis think”, that’s a joke, right ? where the hell do you get that from ?
            https://www.timesofisrael.com/temple-mount-preacher-jews-make-passover-bread-with-childrens-blood/

            Ben, if you think an Israeli who was born in Israel in lived there for quite a few decades never met an Arab, who make 20% of the population, you are crazier than I thought, which is quite impressive to be honest.

            “Ido “”meets” Palestinians “at the bus station” — but if they’re most of them drooling, slobbering “Jew murderers” – and I thought you couldn’t embarrass yourself more. I was wrong.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Ben, I’ve been trying to respond for a couple of days now but I’m being censored repeatedly. How progressive of this site.
            So be patient my good friend, I can figure out eventually which parts do not pass the censors here.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Looks like they released some of my response posting attempts that were rejected for some reason. If you needed proof.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            I thought you asked what I thought about it, see my post (“Already posted what I think about it”) not what other arabs did. We talk about TV series, movies and their disappointed from the Arab Knesset members, not Jew killing inciting poems. I don’t need to ask them what the poem means, I have basic common sense. If you think the word “Shahid” in her poem means something other than what it obviously means in Palestinian culture, what it means every time they mention it, from wall posters praising Jew murderers to yells of Palestinian leaders calling for Shahids to march on Jerusalem, you need a reality check.
            Also just noticed this gem: “tell us if they want to make hummous from the blood of Jewish children, which seems to be what a lot of Jewish Israelis think”, is that a joke ? that’s the stupidest thing I heard in some time.
            Actually Palestinians use the old Nazi blood libel but they switch it to Muslim blood of course, I can actually back up this fact, can you back up your nonsense ? I honestly really like to see it.
            https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-revives-passover-blood-libel/

            Ben, if you think an Israeli who was born in Israel in lived there for quite a few decades never met an Arab, who make 20% of the population, you are crazier than I thought, which is quite impressive to be honest.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            No one is “censoring” you, you silly goose. If the Magazine censored anyone for political content then some other characters here would long ago have disappeared. They set a very low bar for admission. I think the Magazine probably welcomes people like you. You’re documentary evidence. Oral history in the making. But frankly I don’t think the vast majority of the Magazine’s authors pay any attention. They have better things to do.

            There is a built-in time delay between submitting a comment and its appearance; and overly long posts are not admitted without extra scrutiny; and posts with offensive language and WWII terminology. I think a computer algorithm probably does 95% of this. This is to prevent bombardment with multiple, overly long or scurrilous posts by tedious trolls. I assume. And sometimes authors just don’t get around to passing a comment through for a while.

            I don’t mean to be mean, but, as a measure of your cognitive capacities it is quite obvious here (the same comment nine times!) and from comments elsewhere previously how long it is taking you to catch on and figure this out.

            “Looks like they released some of my response posting attempts that were rejected for some reason. If you needed proof.”

            An Ido classic. His posts were not simply delayed for the benign reasons I list, they were “rejected” then “released.” And that is “proof.” LoL. A classic! Quintessntial Ido!

            “I don’t need to ask them what the poem means”

            Another Ido classic. Stand back and get out of his way.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            So you mean my posts were held up for observation for about 3 days and it was a mere coincidence when I mentioned censorship suddenly all of my posts appeared ? could be.
            That’s nice projection you’re doing, you being the epitome of cluelessness, historical fabrications, gross bias to the point of fantasy, all documented in great detail in my posts.
            I can list out the oh so many facts you ignored, your hilarious mistakes, basic ignorance of Middle-Eastern history and current events, as they are all documented in detail in my posts above but that would be an exercise in futility: you won’t adress them because you are not able to, you haven’t so far.
            Yes, I don’t need to ask them what the poem means, because I have basic common sense and knowledge of Palestinian society and mentality and I’m quite aware what “shahid”/”martyr” means in their culture. The squirming around the obvious of the meaning of the term is amusing but as the judge thinks, so do I. It means what it always have meant to the Palestinians, what the posters they put on the walls praising Jew murderers, what their own leaders mean when they call for “shahids” to march on Israeli cities. What the “shahid fund” is meant for.
            All this evidence apparently flies above your head. Just like the facts I posts which you repeatedly refuse to address or how I repeatedly expose your lies and ignorance about Israel, Jews and the Palestinian conflict.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Honeybunch, you’ve been complaining about “censorship” for months now. You’re a little slow to catch on aren’t you? LoL. I think you’re comical in general but the idea that +972 writers of all people got together, sat around and spent time scrutinizing your screeds like Gilad Erdan and the Shabak and then in committee decided to “hold up for observation for three days” these things until you scared them by crying “censorship!”—now that reaches levels of sublime self-satire, extraordinary. Truly funny!!! You’re precious. It brings out your puffed-up sense of self-importance, and your risible standards of “proof,” as well as your tendency to angrily accuse people and think everyone is “lying.” You are something else, Ido. You belong in the pantheon of angry comic +972 characters, of which there have been quite a few. (Alongside the greats like ‘Gustav’ and the incomparably comical, indescribable ‘Ginger Eis.’ No one will ever surpass Eis. I wonder where she went? I think we drove her completely batty.)

            “as the judge thinks, so do I”

            We know. Justice for Jews and justice for Arabs (and black African refugees) are quite different things in your racially-differentiated regime masquerading as a liberal democracy. The evidence for two separate legal systems and two separate standards, even for Israeli citizens never mind the occupied, brutalized inhabitants of the West Bank, is obvious. The evidence is massive. But never mind, you won’t ever get it.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            How many times have I pointed out and proved repeatedly how you refuse to address facts not to your liking? for example: the fact that the Palestinian president himself is an anti-semite Holocaust denier, how the Palestinian leadership calls for the elimination of Israel and the slaughter of Jews because they exist.
            Or the video of tamimi praising Jew murderers ? your inability to grasp the difference between ‘Jew’ and ‘Israel’ ? how the Palestinian President himself says that he wants a Jew-free “Palestine” (all of Israel of course) ? how you claim the Jewish nation doesn’t exist ? which is literally insane.
            Or my favorite: how you lied about what an Israeli reporter said in an article praising Israeli soldiers’ restraint and the importance of not giving material to Palestinian propaganda, not understanding that a word he used (‘be-mahshahim’) means ‘out of sight’ which what he meant obviously in the context of his article but can also means literally ‘in the darkness’ so you ran
            with it to the point of making up nonsense of Jew gang rape even after I linked his original article, and his second article where he explained how idiots were taking what he said out of context, I literally explained this to you 10 times, a lobotomized brick would have got it by now but you still cling to your lies. I find this fascinating.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            As I said, never mind, you won’t ever get it. Look, you are amusing, a cause for mirth, a ninny, a schlemiel and a schlimazel, not a serious interlocutor, and the nine identical posts in a row up there say quite a lot about this and your limitations, but let’s face it you are also a bad guy, Ido. You are very dishonest. Because you are a relentless anti-Semitizing demonizer. It’s the one cracked song you play on your cracked flute over and over. Relentlessly. It sounds bad. It’s all you’ve got. Literally all you’ve got. You relentlessly demonize any and all Palestinian resistance and any and all argument against your hyper-nationalistic project. So that Israeli settler- and soldier-free becomes Jew-free, Palestinian land removed of Israeli settlers becomes “Judenrein,” all martyrs are Jew murderers, all resistance is Jew murder and terror, all resisters are Jew murderers and terrorists, all complex dialogue about a Jewish homeland versus hyper-nationalistic ethnic “nation-state” ala Netanyahu becomes simplistic accusations that we crudely Jews could be any kind of people or “nation” if the term were used in a good-intended not a bad-intended way, or that calling out a snide, racist, sexist, abuse-advocating journalist (and as if Caspit’s snide insinuation must now, at Ido’s insistence, be judged in absolutely naïve, literal dictionary terms for some super generous, super benefit of the doubt-extending reason you never ever accord the Palestinians) gets turned 180 degrees in the most simplistic, anti-Semitizing, demonizing, word-manipulating, twisting, context-ripping terms. You constantly demonize. Ido the demonizer. You’re a bad guy. Which is why I don’t pull punches with you as much as I might. As comical as you are, you also emanate a bad smell. The odor of demonizing.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            What makes sense is a text analyzer which takes 3 days to work on a couple of pages instead of 3 seconds or less. And as you see, the comments section is filled with thousands of posts which explains the delay.
            Similar size posts with many cited links to facts proving you’re clueless I’ve made in the past had no such delay, I find it odd. Must be a bug.
            How many times have I proved you’re clueless, a liar, have absolutely no idea what your talking about ? for example here and in the comments section here:
            https://972mag.com/youre-far-more-likely-to-be-killed-protesting-in-gaza-than-firing-a-rocket/134952/
            And many examples here:
            https://972mag.com/why-the-pa-cant-and-wont-stops-paying-prisoners-families/134833/

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            And again you refuse to address all the facts I’ve stated proving you are wrong on so many issues, a proven liar, I literally quote you lying, and how you have for some reason a blind spot regarding the actions, goals and history of the Palestinians and of course no clue about Israel and Jews. I have proved this literally dozen times now and you have so far either
            refused to address it, just like now, or sink deeper into lying and having no idea what you’re talking about.
            You think ad hominem attacks (“you’re a bad guy!”) and your temper tantrums will somehow make all of this go away ? are you a child ?
            You talk about dishonesty while lying, making stuff up, claiming literally insane nonsense (“example: the Jewish nation doesn’t exist”) is real, completely ignoring facts not to your liking (the Palestinians goals of ending Israel and the murder of Jews, how they adore Nazi ideology and Hitler, the Palestinian President himself
            being an anti-semite Holocaust denier who wants a Jew-free “Palestine”, etc) and you don’t realize the irony ? I find that very entertaining.
            Especially how you mention ‘anti-Semitizing’ while refusing to address the rabid anti-semitism in Palestinian society and the Palestinian President himself being a raging anti-semite and Holocaust denier for how many times now ? I lost count. 7 ?
            You’re hilarious: “Literally all you’ve got” – you mean besides pointing out repeatedly, specifically, where you were wrong, where you lied and where you had absolutely no idea what you’re talk about in great detail ?
            You talk about “Palestinian resistance” while refusing to address the fact that they are lead by terrorists who openly and very, very clearly say their goals is the elimination of Israel and the murder of Jews. I actually listed them in a previous post when I proved to you how they see all of Israel from the sea to the river as theirs, in their official symbols no less,
            but as usual you completely ignored it. Maybe it’ll go away, right ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “so that Israeli settler- and soldier-free becomes Jew-free” – and you’re lying again. I proved this to you literally 10 times. He said Israeli, you added some words which he never did as is your habit, also not understanding that he means ‘Jews’ since you obviously had no idea what is the difference between ‘Jew’ and ‘Israel’.
            I ask again (17 time): do you think the Palestinian president wants a future “Palestine” free of Arabs who are also Israeli ? do you understand ? how is this so difficult for you to grasp ? ‘Jew’ = nationality and religion, you can be both or one and not the other, ‘Israeli’ = a person who is a citizen of Israel including Arabs, Christians, Druze, Bediun, Samaritans, etc.

            “Palestinian land removed of Israeli settlers becomes Judenrein” – His words, and I quote: ““In a final resolution, we would not see the presence of a single Israeli – civilian or soldier”. Why do you keep lying about this ?
            “all martyrs are Jew murderers” – nope, in the context of the Palestinian ethos most are as it is very, very evident if you were familiar with Palestinian society and their hero worship of Jew murderers. Especially to someone who admires Islamic Jihadist terrorist organizations who openly and very clearly call of Jew murder, like the woman from the article.
            “all resistance is Jew murder and terror” – and you’re lying again. Point to anywhere I said that.
            “Jews could be any kind of people or nation” – you literally said that one of the oldest nation on earth, the Jewish people, with millennia of shared history, culture, language, ancestry and even distinct religion do not exist. This is nuclear grade level of stupid.
            “out a snide, racist, sexist, abuse-advocating journalist” – and you lie again, I lost count how many times in your last post alone. I already explained to you, in great detail including cited sources, how you were very wrong about this and you still cling to this lie. See my post above.
            I especially liked your Jew gang rape fantasy, how twisting what the journalist said about restraint and not providing the Palestinians propaganda material, to your fantasy of Jews gang raping in darkness when what he said is right there in my post, I linked his original article, also the article where he explained how what he said was taken out of context, how idiots could misinterpreted what he said which he also explained and you still cling to your lying nonsense like your life depends on it. This is amazing to me.
            “Ido the demonizer” – I repeat: ad hominem attacks and your temper tantrums will not somehow make all of these facts go away. The only thing it does is somewhat entertain me and for that I thank you.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            And again you refuse to address all the facts I’ve stated proving you are wrong on so many issues, a proven liar, I literally quote you lying, and how you have for some reason a blind spot regarding the actions, goals and history of the Palestinians and of course no clue about Israel and Jews. I have proved this literally dozen times now and you have so far either
            refused to address it, just like now, or sink deeper into lying and having no idea what you’re talking about.
            You think ad hominem attacks (“you’re a bad guy!”) and your temper tantrums will somehow make all of this go away ? are you a child ?
            You talk about dishonesty while lying, making stuff up, claiming literally insane nonsense (“example: the Jewish nation doesn’t exist”) is real, completely ignoring facts not to your liking (the Palestinians’ goals of ending Israel and the murder of Jews, the Palestinian President himself being an anti-semite Holocaust denier who wants a Jew-free “Palestine”, etc) and you don’t realize the irony ? I find that very entertaining.
            Especially how you mention ‘anti-Semitizing’ while refusing to address the rabid anti-semitism in Palestinian society and the Palestinian President himself being a raging anti-semite and Holocaust denier for how many times now ? I lost count. 7 ?
            You’re hilarious: “Literally all you’ve got” – you mean besides pointing out repeatedly, specifically, where you were wrong, where you lied and where you had absolutely no idea what you’re talk about in great detail ?
            You talk about “Palestinian resistance” while refusing to address the fact that they are lead by terrorists who openly and very, very clearly say that their goals is the elimination of Israel and the murder of Jews. I actually listed them in a previous post when I proved to you how they see all of Israel from the sea to the river as theirs, in their official symbols no less,
            but as usual you completely ignored it. Maybe it’ll go away, right ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Ooooookkkkkk, Ido the demonizer, I’ll just put a clothespin over my nose and my latex gloves on and pull out one dripping, demonizing nugget from this steaming, incoherent mess and let it stand in the sunlight. Absolutely no further argument will be necessary:

            “Palestinian land removed of Israeli settlers becomes Judenrein” – His words, and I quote:
            ““In a final resolution, we would not see the presence of a single Israeli – civilian or soldier”.

            [*chortle*]

            “again you refuse to address all the ‘facts’” [ironic quotation marks added]

            You really should retire this repetitive troll gambit. It’s quite transparent by now. But do whatever you want. I’ll just stand back and strategically get out of your way while I hold my nose. And laugh.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            I repeat: ad hominem attacks and your temper tantrums will not somehow make all of these facts go away. They will not somehow make all the posts where I detailed your ignorance, lies and repeated avoidance of facts not to your liking go away. The only thing it does is somewhat entertain me and for that I thank you.
            I honestly don’t get why you’re lying about this again, I already explained this to you in great detail, including the actual quote of the Palestinian president himself (the anti-semite Holocaust denier, another fact you are yet to address for so many times that I lost count), including explaining to you like to a child what the difference between ‘Jew’ and ‘Israeli’ is and you still cling to your lie.
            The Palestinian President wants a Jew-free “Palestine”. The Palestinians consider all of Israel, from the River to the Sea as “Palestine” or “the occupation”. They say so openly and very clearly.
            Why do you lie about referring to just settlers when he obviously didn’t ? are you “paraphrasing” and “adding things” again ?
            Your state of denial is a constant source of amusement to me, saying “what facts?” when they are detailed in the posts above, including links to other articles on this site with comments filled with me refuting your nonsense and you ignoring the facts I post. Maybe they will go away and I won’t notice how you ignored them, right ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Ido, this is what the man said:

            ““In a final resolution, we would not see the presence of a single Israeli – civilian or soldier.”

            This is what you said he said:

            “…Jew-free….”

            What part of this demonizing do you not understand?

            As far as me supposedly not understanding “the difference between ‘Jew’ and ‘Israeli’” — you’ve perseverated on this weird idea several times now and I have no idea by what distortion or lack of comprehension you arrived at this confusion, and I don’t much care, it’s just another example of how you get things confused and muddled because of (1) your inherent limitations, and (2) you being hell-bent on turning absolutely everything into an opportunity to ferociously anti-Semitize and demonize.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Seriously ? I explained this to you literally 16 times now. You’re either trolling or incredibly stupid.
            The difference between ‘Jew’ and ‘Israeli’: ‘Jew’ = nationality, belonging to the Jewish people (what you hilariously claim doesn’t exist) and/or follower of the Jewish religion.
            It can be both, it can be one and not the other. ‘Israeli’ = citizen of the country of Israel. Can be a Jew, Christian, Christian Arab, Muslim Arab, Druze, Bedouin, Samaritan, etc.
            Do you think the Palestinians will ban Israeli Arabs from a future “Palestine” ? Israeli Christians ? they are Israelis too. Do you understand why he means Israeli Jews ? a 4 year old child would have by now.
            Also you don’t seem to know what ‘anti-semitism’ means, what a shock. It means hatred of Jews specifically, not semites. Read the dictionary definition and stop embarrassing yourself.
            Are you in denial about this just like you are in denial about the fact that the Palestinian President himself is a raging anti-semite and a Holocaust denier ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            And here’s a detailed explanation of what the racist anti-semite Holocaust denier said:
            http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/170404

            This is the 17th time I’m explaining this to you. I refuse to believe someone is this stupid and clueless about the Palestinians.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            This is what we mean by your remarkably patronizing tendencies, combined with a striking cluelessness that is a cause for wonderment, Ido. Of course we have known all along exactly how the Israelis construe “nationality” versus “citizenship.” You seem to have labored under the misconception that you needed to explain this to us. We never not understood the distinction the Israeli state, for ideological reasons, makes. We don’t misunderstand the distinction, we disagree with the use to which that distinction is put, with the reasons it is employed. Which is explained, better than anyone else, by Noam Sheizaf:

            Why I oppose recognizing Israel as a Jewish state
            https://972mag.com/why-i-oppose-recognizing-israel-as-a-jewish-state/78751/

            (We have to laugh at “literally 16 times…this is the 17th time….” Indeed it probably is (we weren’t counting). It is like the nine times posting the same message before you had to have me clue you in to how the site works. And then you still prefer the paranoid explanations. And here is where you give away how little you understand—if you think +972 writers sit around squelching free speech from any angle at all (except gross, hurtful offensiveness) you utterly misunderstand what +972 is about. Utterly. And, you project onto +972 Magazine the same petty fascist values that the worst corners of the Israeli right wing exemplify. Where does that projecting tendency come from, Ido Geller? In what corner do you really sit?)

            More to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            We know full well that Mahmoud Abbas has clownish, stupid, oppressive (of his own people) and ignorant anti-Semitic tendencies. We know how limited he is, how he is a thoroughly inadequate leader, and stuck in primitive ways of thinking on one level but also a practical moderate with whom a deal could be made on another level (as Olmert partially revealed before he went off to prison). Primitive, stuck as is much of the Israeli right wing stuck in equally primitive ways (yes Lewis from Afula and Halevy, I’m talking to you, and you Smotrich, and you Regev, and you Shaked & Bennett. And you, Netanyahu, et al.))

            Israelis pretend to be offended by, scandalized by these inadequacies of Abbas but secretly treasure them—they treasure how easily Abbas is manipulated and they treasure nothing more than a chance to attribute the entire occupation to some sympathy-generating battle against anti-Semites, to a play on the Holocaust.

            So don’t tell me Abbas is the root cause, as in Netanyahu’s famous patented medicine: “the settlements are not the problem, it’s the Palestinian refusal to accept a ‘Jewish state’ [see Sheizaf, above] that is the problem.”

            We also know that plenty of Israeli Jews have anti-Arab-Semitic tendencies, that Israeli society is rife with it.

            We also know that a viable two state solution does not depend on what anyone on either side *feels*. It is not about feelings, it is about practical agreements and solutions despite feelings. Change the *behavior* (occupation, theft, militarism, oppression, sloganeering, cycles of terrorism in both directions) and craft a solution (much easier than the Israelis will admit to if they simply solve their problem with land-covetousness) and the *feelings* will follow in the next generations.

            More to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            As well, authoritative people in the PA have clarified that they will not “ban Jews” but that Israelis will have to apply for citizenship just like anyone else and not waltz in and think they own the place simply because they are Jewish (which is the case now, as I write). The absolutely fundamental thing missing in your thinking, the fundamental and really striking lack of empathy you show, the cluelessness you display is this: You seem to have no idea, absolutely no ability to imagine, what it is like to be belligerently occupied and brutally oppressed by Israeli supremacists for fifty years and then be expected to turn right around and say “oh, hey, you all are welcome to stay, you fine fellows, you Israelis, because if we had any feelings to the contrary we would simply be anti-Semites.” Abbas is not equating Israelis to Jews, you are, Ido Geller. And that maneuver of yours is both dishonest and demonizing.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “We have to laugh at “literally 16 times…this is the 17th time” – I think it’s more sad than funny, proving how dumb someone can be is no laughing matter.
            “And then you still prefer the paranoid explanations” – Paranoid what now ? where did you pull that lie from ? I ask again: point to any fact and prove me wrong. I just refuted your nonsense again, in detail.
            “In what corner do you really sit?” – what would you like to know about me ? besides my tendency to point out your ignorance, lies and nonsense repeatedly in great detail ?
            “but also a practical moderate” – first, congratulation on finally accepting that the Palestinian President himself is a rabid Anti-semite. You still have to come to term that he’s a Holocaust denier as well but baby steps and all.
            Second, he’s more concerned with stealing millions of dollars from his own people, just like Arafat, so sure he’s practical. For his own benefit. And compared to the Islamic Jihadists of Hamas, Islamic Jihad etc I would consider him a moderate. Still calls for the elimination of Israel and the murder of Jews but in a more secular way.
            “generating battle against anti-Semites, to a play on the Holocaust” – now that’s some fine historic “revisionism”. Do you intentionally ignore the fact that Abbas and his terrorists openly call for the elimination of Israel, that they consider all of Israel as theirs, that they call, act for and fund the murder of Jews or you’re in a state of denial again ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “So don’t tell me Abbas is the root cause” – no, the problem is also Hamas and the rest of the terrorist organizations that like Abbas refuse to accept the existence of Israel, the homeland of the Jewish people and call for continual fight against it.
            Also as I’m sure you know, Abbas has no mandate from the Palestinians to do anything because the Palestinians have “Arab democracy”, which means either sham elections or literally canceling elections. How many years now has Abbas refused to carry out elections ? a central attribute of the democratic process ?
            2018 marks the beginning of the 13th year of Abbas’s four-year term in office. Just like Hamas, the theocracy ruling Gaza, canceled the elections there.
            “the settlements are not the problem, it’s the Palestinian refusal to accept a Jewish state that is the problem.” – I don’t agree with Netanyahu but that’s a very Accurate assessment especially since we know the Palestinians consider all of Israel as “the Occupation”.
            Not accepting Israel’s legitimacy is the core of the problem. Refusing to accept the viable continual existence of Israel, the homeland of the Jewish people, is the problem.
            “anti-Arab-Semitic” – so you now know you had no idea what anti-semitism actually meant so you invent your own term to rectify your ignorance ? that’s adorable.
            Yes, there are Israelis who hate Arabs, go figure, why would they hate people who tried to genocide them multiple times and attempt to murder them today ? I also hate people who wants to slaughter me and my children because we’re Jewish. I’ve met Arabs who said it to my face. However I know many, I would like to think most, are not like them.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “We also know that a viable two state solution does not depend on what anyone on either side *feels*” – what are you talking about ? the Palestinians’ refusal to accept the existence of Israel and its elimination is their declared objective, repeated and in documented in their charters, it’s not an emotional problem, It’s a thought out declaration of goals.
            “authoritative people in the PA have clarified that they will not “ban Jews”” – The Palestinian president himself said they will.
            “but that Israelis will have to apply for citizenship just like anyone else” – who wouldn’t want to live in a failed Arab state ? especially as a Jew ? like what kind of country you think that would be ? Sweden ? or like any other Arab state ? Gaza was actually a great litmus test, full withdrawal, let the Palestinians self-govern the entire territory. It’s a terrorists infested failed state. What a shock.
            “which is the case now, as I write” – How many Jews live in the Palestinian Authority ? How many in Gaza ? you can’t count them on a single finger. ‘Jew free’ indeed. How many Arabs live in Israel ? about 20%.
            “You seem to have no idea, absolutely no ability to imagine, what it is like to be belligerently occupied and brutally oppressed by Israeli supremacists for fifty years” – and how many times I said I support Israel’s withdrawal from the West Bank ? almost as many times as you have failed to grasp the fact that the Palestinians consider all of Israel as ‘the Occupation’.
            “hen be expected to turn right around and say” – idiotic nonsense, I don’t expected them to do anything of the sort, unlike you I am actually familiar with them. I do expect them to accept the fact that Israel exists and is not going away, something they seem to have a big problem with.
            “Abbas is not equating Israelis to Jews, you are” – of course he is because as I explained 18 times now he doesn’t consider the Arabs in Israel as Israelis but as Palestinians. Calling them Israelis will be an insult to him.
            “And that maneuver of yours is both dishonest and demonizing” – you can deny reality as much as you like, that’s the beauty of it and of the facts I’m posting which you are still to refute: deny them as much as you like, they are still the truth and are not going away.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “we disagree with the use to which that distinction is put” – so you reject reality and constitute it with your own, OK. People who existed for millennia, with rich shared history, culture, language, ancestry and even religion which spawned both Islam and Christianity doesn’t exist to you.
            And you don’t realize the level of stupidity involved in you saying that . That is even more amazing than you refusing to grasp the fact that the Palestinian President is an anti-semite Holocaust denier who wants a Jew-free “Palestine”. Such a bizarre thing to say for an Anti-semite Holocaust denier, right ?
            “Why I oppose recognizing Israel as a Jewish state” – Well, you should read Israel’s declaration of Independence. Maybe then you’ll understand that it is a Jewish state if you like it or not. It was the reason for its re-creation, the homeland of the Jewish people, people you hilariously claim do not exist.
            And a counter opinion to your opinion piece:
            http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/analysis/can-israel-be-both-jewish-and-democratic/2017/01/26/

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            And again you fail to grasp such a simple concept, this is amazing. Truly remarkable.
            I ask again, how many times now ? do you think the Palestinian President will ban Israeli Arabs from “Palestine” ? Christian Arabs ? Druze ? Bediun ? all Israelis. How can you fail to understand for 18 times now that the Palestinians don’t consider the Arab Israelis as ‘Israelis’, only Jews.
            How hard is it to understand such a simple fact: The Palestinian Authority refers to all of the Arabs who live in what they term “Palestine” (all of Israel) as Palestinians, pay attention because this is the important part: including the Israeli Arabs.
            similarly they see no distinction between “Jews” and “Israelis”. I have to accept that you’re trolling by now, I refuse to believe someone can be this stupid or clueless about the Palestinians.
            “Of course we have known all along exactly how the Israelis construe “nationality” versus “citizenship.” – I have proved literally dozen of times that you had absolutely no clue about the distinction between ‘Jew’ and Israeli’, furthermore you hilariously claimed that the Jewish nation, one of the oldest on earth, doesn’t exist.
            Now I’ve seen some stupid nonsense here, including a very amusing debate with a Muslim who admitted he’s an anti-semite and Holocaust denier (like the Palestinian President) but you win the prize. Congratulations.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            It looks like you put a lot of effort into this but sadly, I find it unreadable, and if I, who know our history together find it unreadable, pity the poor innocent reader. Wall to wall propaganda, and not just propaganda but verbose and almost impenetrable propaganda. And the ever present demonizing. Your bad habit. I particularly appreciated this gem of incoherence: “I don’t agree with Netanyahu but that’s a very Accurate assessment….” Yet another in a long line of your fatuous “I have proved” gems is “I have proved literally dozen of times that you had absolutely no clue about the distinction between ‘Jew’ and Israeli.” A statement so patronizing and divorced from reality that I thought even you would be embarrassed. Your ability to muddle, to distort, and to slipperily say spurious things, and sneakily, is splendid. So long and sayonara. Be grateful. Not having to put in so much effort to uselessly replying to me will free up a lot of time for you to demonize elsewhere.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “I particularly appreciated this gem of incoherence” – so you don’t have the capacity to understand that I agree with a man I don’t usually agree with on one specific point ?
            Are you playing dumb again ? you’re very convincing.
            How many times have I proved in great detail that you have absolutely no clue about the distinction between ‘Israeli’ and ‘Jew’ ? leading to your inability to understand that to the Palestinians there is no such thing as an Arab who is an Israeli, only Palestinian. When they say ‘Israelis’ they mean Jews, not Arabs, Druze, Beduin, etc.
            How can you be this dense ? I literally explained this to you like to a small child, more than a dozen times, it’s right up there in the comments section and in the link to another article’s comments sections.
            What’s patronizing about pointing out that you had no idea ? you should thank me for educating you. Like for example now you know what anti-semitism actually means. I also pointed out, in great detail, that your notion that the Jewish nationality doesn’t exist is hilarious nonsense. Literally a lie and an easily to prove one at that. Calling my posts proving you’re clueless “patronizing” or “demonizing” is not going to make them go away or make them any less a fact.
            “Your ability to muddle, to distort, and to slippery say spurious things” – I ask again: point to any fact I stated and prove me wrong. Why is this so difficult for you ?
            “It looks like you put a lot of effort into this” – nope, proving you are clueless and a liar who doesn’t know what he’s talking about is actually very easy to do and fun.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Not a single sputtering sentence here is true. “How many times have I proved…?” Zero. Except as comic relief, this is a useless conversation. But now you’re freed up to get off your obsession with me and demonize elsewhere.
            You should watch that temper of yours.
            Bye Bye.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            And you continue to lie when my posts are right there above, proving very, very clearly that you’re a clueless liar who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
            Saying “no you didn’t!” when they are posted right above you, with links to other articles on this site filled with more comments where I prove you wrong in great detail, is very mature of you and very amusing to me.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Your concept of proof, and your concept of truth, have always been most peculiar, Ido Geller. Downright eccentric. We can only chuckle at the spectacle you make. Here we have someone lecturing others on maturity while he inveterately, really incorrigibly, employs this childish technique:
            Make a highly contentious and dubious interpretation of reality, cast that interpretation as “fact,” then wantonly, promiscuously call those who dispute that interpretation “liars.” I feel like I’m in a sandbox with a five year old. No thanks.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Again, what are you talking about ? you said some very wrong things, I pointed it out with cited proof, proving you wrong. You said things that prove without a doubt you have no idea what you’re talking about, I pointed it out in great detail and proved you wrong. You lied, I pointed it out, with detailed proof.
            All of this is detailed in the comments above and in the comments in the other articles on this site I linked above.
            I have no idea why you would think saying “no you didn’t!” will make all of this disappear.
            You saying “dubious interpretation of reality” when I literally pointed out in great detail how you did exactly that, in detail. Nice attempt at a deflection technique.
            “promiscuously call those who dispute that interpretation liars.” – “interpretation” ? hilarious. Easily proven facts with cited detailed proof you couldn’t refute is now “interpretation”. And you’re lying about lying, that is amazing. Very meta of you. I didn’t say those who oppose what I said are liars (after I refuted their nonsense), I called you a liar when you claimed I said things I never did or when you claimed something existed when it didn’t.

            Some examples:
            1. You said Hamas wasn’t using payment incentives for riots at the Gaza protests. You called it “low level propaganda”. Proved you were lying with the detailed payments list.
            2. You lied and claimed an Israeli journalist said something he never did, You added words and as a result also meaning he never did, even after I explained this to you in detail dozen of times with the actual original article the journalist posted, you still lied about it.
            3. You lied about the Palestinian casualties kill rate, claiming I said something I never did (“coldly insinuated that a 41% kill rate”) when I was I was talking about the Palestinians killed out of the number of protesters who didn’t riot near the border.
            4. You lied when you claimed the Palestinian President didn’t say he wants a ‘Jew-Free’ “Palestine”. You lied when you claim you knew the distinction between ‘Israeli’ and ‘Jew’, you added the word “settler” which he never said, I easily proved you wrong when I explained, literally more than a dozen times, how the Palestinians don’t consider the Israeli Arabs as Israelis when I mentioned how the Palestinian President himself wants a Jew-Free “Palestine”. How they see no difference between Jews and Israelis even though they are not one and the same.
            5. You regularly claim I said things I never did (“Israel is special and unique among 21st century nations”). Saying I have anything to do with Feiglin, etc.
            6. You lied about Likud (“Likudist’s running platform is death to a Palestinian state”). Not a fan of Likud, quite the opposite, but that was a stupid lie. You of course ignored what Hamas’ openly stated goals are.
            You went on some hilarious lying temper tantrum (“any Palestinian who dares call out the Likud or stand against them is arrested or killed by Israeli snipers”).
            7. You claimed Israel “staged a Latin American style military coup to overturn a democratic election” in Gaza. Blamed something Fatah, in their inner-Palestinian struggle with Hamas, did backed by the Bush administration. Lie.
            8. You claimed the Palestinians “put down their guns under the leadership of Mahmoud Abbas”, now that is an outrageous lie.
            9. You lied when you claimed Israel refused to accept the legitimate existence of “Palestine” (a second Palestinian Arab state, after Jordan), I easily proved you wrong.
            10. You also lied about Abu Mazen regarding his anti-semitism and Holocaust denial but in later articles you came to your senses and somewhat accepted the fact that he’s a rabid anti-semite but you completely ignored the Holocaust denial part. So you show some progress, baby steps and all.

            Reply to Comment
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