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Netanyahu: Even in peace, the occupation will never end

The next time anyone tries to blame the Palestinians for refusing to return to the table, remember that Israel’s prime minister repeatedly states his unwillingness to end the occupation.

He’s said it countless times before in myriad ways. But he usually only says it in Hebrew. This week, however, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu said in English, and on camera, that under his leadership Israel will never end the occupation of Palestine.

Speaking at the Economic Club of Washington earlier this week, Netanyahu dodged a question about whether he supports a one- or two-state solution, and outlined a vision that sounds a lot like an entrenched and enhanced version of the occupation as it exists today.

“I don’t want the Palestinians as citizens of Israel and I don’t want them as subjects of Israel. So I want a solution where they have all the powers they need to govern themselves but none of the powers that would threaten us,” the prime minister said.

“What that means is that whatever the solution is, the area west of the Jordan — that includes the Palestinian areas — would be militarily under Israel,” he continued. “The security, the overriding security responsibility would be Israel’s.”

The mainstay of Israel’s military occupation, of course, is Israeli military control over the Palestinian territories and Palestinians themselves. Through the Oslo Accords, Israel has been able to minimize and outsource much of its control over Palestinians to the Palestinian Authority, but insists on retaining what Netanyahu calls “overriding security responsibility.”

Even after a peace deal, or in Netanyahu’s words, “a solution,” the occupation of Palestine will continue. And without sovereign control of its territory, there would definitely be no independent Palestinian state.

Netanyahu has been saying this for years. In 2014, less than three months after the collapse of the Kerry peace talks, Netanyahu stated that “that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan.”

A year after that, in 2015, Netanyahu declared that a Palestinian state will never be established on his watch. Fast-forward to 2017 and the prime minister started promising that he will never remove any Israeli settlements from the West Bank, without which even basic Palestinian autonomy is inconceivable. And more than a decade ago Netanyahu was filmed bragging about how he set out to sabotage the Oslo Accords.

None of that is to suggest that Netanyahu alone is responsible for the lack of peace or Palestinian statehood. His views are not all that different than the vast majority of Israeli politicians who hope to replace him one day. But next time anyone tries to lay blame on the Palestinians for “refusing to return to the table,” remember how Benjamin Netanyahu keeps openly stating his unwillingness to ever end the occupation.

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    1. Jan

      What he is saying is that he wants to emulate apartheid South Africa. He needs to say it out loud. Israel will be no different than apartheid South Africa and we will be confining the Palestinians into bantustans and if anyone criticizes us we will be right to say that they are anti-semitic.

      Reply to Comment
    2. Bruce Gould

      There’s the political boilerplate in all official announcements by Israelis and Palestinians, and then there’s the reality of what people will accept. This is the Guardian’s analysis of the revised 2017 Hamas charter:


      “Hamas has unveiled a new political programme softening its stance on Israel by accepting the idea of a Palestinian state in territories occupied by Israel in the six-day war of 1967….”

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    3. Ben

      @Ido Geller: You’re so full of predictable right wing echo chamber nonsense that traffics in all sorts of outworn distortions and betrays so much repetitive ignorance that it would be tedious and counterproductive to refute you piece by piece. The real conversations have long moved on from the pseudo-history you would drag everybody back into and bog them down in. No thanks. My advice: Educate yourself. Actually read +972 Magazine and Haaretz, daily, for one year. Compare and contrast with the Jerusalem Post. Read about your own country. Learn some hard truths about it. Open your eyes. Travel to the West Bank, and, here’s a thought, actually meet real Palestinians and talk to them. +972 writers do this all the time. Interesting, no? Then get back to us.

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    4. Ben

      Mr. Geller, you’re drenched in cheap, cheesy rhetoric, you’re a fount of it, and it’s all you’ve got, beginning with the “there has never been a Palestinian state” cant of every internet troll (there was indeed a Palestine for thousand of years and there never was a United States of America prior to 1776) and ending with the “I know all there is to know” ignorance of every likudist man in the street. Every thing you “know” is the “everybody knows” disinformation of the average smug Israeli who causally enjoys his Feiglinst supremacy and knows what he knows but doesn’t want to know too much.
      Geller, tell me again, I suppose Israel expropriated this spring to “defend itself”? Yeah? Top secret subterranean anti-Iranian missile battery with Israeli-invented spring water-cooled mechanism? Yeah? “Everybody knows”? The expropriation of the spring is a “fantasy”? Perhaps you’ve “worked” on such expropriations? Nice “work.” ==>

      In my view, for somebody who say he supposedly reads widely and in depth (but just started reading +972 but thinks he knows everything inside of it anyway) you display scant evidence.

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      • Ido

        @Ben, your temper tantrum isn’t going to change the historic fact that a Palestinian nation or country never existed in recorded history.


        Go ahead, prove me wrong. You haven’t so far, why is that ?
        You told me to educate myself, I pointed out that I’m quite familiar with the history involved, my country and the Palestinian Conflict. You are yet to challenge a single fact I presented with actual proof and you mention disinformation ? that’s adorable.

        Then you mention Israel’s anti-Iranian missile system and a spring in the West Bank as if it has something to do with it. umm, what ? didn’t I mention that I’m on favor of dismantling West Bank settlements ? I think what Israel is doing to these people is abhorrent. That doesn’t cancel out every fact I stated about the Palestinians.

        I display “scant evidence” ? you mean like the link I just posted ? point to anything in it which isn’t a fact.

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        • Ben

          Ido Geller, you illustrate a case long made in the pages of +972 Magazine.

          That is, in your impenetrable Israeli everyman’s cocksureness that you know what you know you and will brook no evidence to the contrary, and in your disdaining to hear about things your countrymen perpetrate (there’s a reason you left that article about the spring well enough alone) you show that Israel cannot change itself. Outside non-violent pressure will be needed. That is why Breaking the Silence needs to break the silence and needs to break it to outsiders. And why Israelis call them traitors. That is why +972 Magazine realized it had to write in both English and Hebrew. Israelis, left to their own devices, would be quite content to “manage” the conflict and brutally subjugate people for another 50 years. If the world would just leave them alone. The world has come a long way with Israel, with endless forbearance, but gets nothing in return, and it has begun to wise up.

          More to follow on what you hint around at but are shy about declaring.

          Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Ido Geller, you are hinting around at, but never really coming out and stating, that the Palestinians’ lack of a formal state gives Jews, as Jews, the racist right to steal their land and their vital resources, for example, their spring water.

            (It is actually a fascist right claimed, in its Feiglinist sense. I mean this, I am not throwing around a trivial epithet. Educate yourself:


            Yeshayahu Leibowitz was right.)

            More to follow on this theme of what you won’t quite come out and say.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Mr. Geller, you’re shilly-shallying around and won’t come right out and say it (the right you casually feel to steal land and resources) because you know it is gangster thinking, but you are, even if inchoately, thinking it, of that I am sure. I can’t divine any other reason for your obsession with whether there was a formal Palestinian nation. You are interested in nationalism, not human beings.

            This dancing around is tiresome and shallow. In these latter days of a 50-year brutal and brutalizing occupation in which people have seen it all before and heard it all before, it’s deeply unoriginal and boring. You’re trying, for the millionth time, as have others before you, to drag people into a distractive pseudo-debate about pseudo-historical “facts” as if anything about today’s conflict depended upon it.

            Educate yourself:
            Link to the four headings under “Do the Palestinians exist?”

            I anticipate some bluster from you in response to this, but alas you’ve exposed your true motives.

            More to follow, on your true motives.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “Then you mention…a spring in the West Bank as if it has something to do with it. umm, what ?”

            Here, Ido Geller, you gave the game away. All the suppressed contempt, the racist disdain, the latent Israeli/Judeo-supremacism you’re trying so hard to keep politely closeted under a veneer of rationality and an obsession with pseudo-historical-religious “facts,” peeks out. The pretense drops away. This too-obvious playing dumb act, this insouciance, this indifference, this gangster’s insolence, about the theft of the spring, exposes you. You’re a fake. (Or maybe you’re just oblivious—which is worse?)

            You say you’ve read +972 Magazine and its “a fantasy” and that you’re all about “the facts,” but when confronted with an actual, plain, on-the-ground fact out of that source, facts that skewer all your pretensions, all you’ve got is……..“umm, what”?

            We will remember Ido Geller’s “umm, what?”

            Ido: “I came, I saw, I said, umm, what?”

            Like a gangster being questioned by police. “Yeah? So what?” Exactly, Ido Geller, umm, what? Ido Geller’s signature. “Umm, what?”

            To paraphrase: “Oh, I read deeply and seriously, I assure you, I know all there is to know…but a spring in the West Bank? As if it has something to do with…umm, what ?” That sums you up, Ido.

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          • Ben

            And one more thing. This is the cherry on the top of this dishonest confection of yours:

            “didn’t I mention that I’m on favor of dismantling West Bank settlements? I think what Israel is doing to these people is abhorrent.”

            Facts, as you like to say, matter. You didn’t mention this anywhere on this page, and I do not believe it now that you’re backtracking. Nothing you’ve said is consistent with dismantling settlements and nothing you’ve said is consistent with “abhorrence” at what Israel is doing to these people. Quite the opposite.

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          • Ben

            And one more thing still. If I got you wrong, Ido Geller, it’s your fault. You posture and bait and slyly hint around at things for propaganda purposes. You make no good faith effort to find something truthful and come out and say it. If I got you wrong, it is your fault. Be more careful and more honest the next time.

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          • Ben

            Oh, just one more thing.
            (I’m becoming like Lieutenant Columbo here.)

            “your temper tantrum”

            So says the shallow, smug Israeli who can’t be bothered to bestir himself over the brutal mistreatment of people he casually participates in subjugating. So that if others are angry, why it is just a “temper tantrum.”

            You couldn’t have exposed the whole problem better. And yourself.

            OK, that’s it.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido Geller

            @Ben, you are yet to point to a single fact I posted and refute it. Why is that ?
            You mention ‘Breaking the Silence’ ? would you like to discuss the latest lie their founder and leader was caught in ? they are not traitors, they are mostly liars and they expect Israeli soldiers should behave in ways unprecedented in the history of human warfare when dealing with murderous terrorists. It’s easy to see what they are if you knew who funds them.

            Why do you ignore the actions and goals of the Palestinians ? why do you ignore the fact that they see all of Israel, from the Sea to the River, as theirs ? why do you ignore the fact that they don’t see Israel as a legitimate country and openly call for its elimination and the murder of Jews ?

            I never said that the Palestinians’ lack of a formal state gives Jews the right to steal anything, that’s you lying.
            You bring Feiglin’s ideology as if it’s any relevance to what I was saying or to me or even relevant to Israel’s actual policy. I’m not a Feiglin supporter and not a Likud supporter.

            And you continue to make stuff up about me without actually addressing the facts I posted, as usual. I pointed out there was never a Palestinian country or state because that’s the truth and the Palestinians lie about it, it’s the core of their narrative. I explained this about 3 times now. And we see from comments of other people that they believe the Palestinians’ lies.

            I said that this website is amusing because its far left biased approach borders on fantasy.
            I said “umm what” because I didn’t understand what you were saying, what Iranian missiles has anything to do with a spring. I was very specific, you, as usual, ignore what I actually posted. I never say “so what ?” that’s you lying again.
            Paraphrase as much as you like, you are still yet to disprove a single fact I posted.

            I mentioned here and in other article Facebook comments on this site that I’m in favor of West Bank withdrawal and giving East Jerusalem to the Palestinians as part of a peace agreement. What backtracking ? what are you talking about ? where did I say anything different on the matter ?

            Again you mention “propaganda reasons” and never refute a single fact I posted. You mentioned honesty ? why do you keep lying about me ?

            I repeat: why do you ignore the Palestinians own actions, their own goals, the fact that they see all of Israel as theirs, the fact that they refuse to accept Israel’s legitimacy, everything I asked that you so far ignored for several times.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            You’re still at it! With the “you haven’t refuted a single fact” gambit! What “fact” is it incumbent on me to “refute”?

            Ido Geller, I think you still don’t get it. It is not incumbent on me to “refute” a manipulative distortion about an irrelevant assertion to which you attach undue significance: i.e., “the historic fact that a Palestinian nation or country never existed in recorded history.” Well neither did an Israeli nation or country ever exist in recorded history, until it did, and neither did the United States ever exist in recorded history, until it did. SO WHAT?

            And the rider you attach to this is that “the Palestinians,” en masse, “lie” about this. A malicious distortion designed to be both meaningless and non-disprovable. As if Israelis don’t assert all the time that their “nation,” too, always existed! And as if Israelis don’t constantly lie about so many things! This is contempt. Refusal to accord the same right of self-determination to Arabs that you do to Jews. The Peace Now site I linked to explains all this. READ IT. Troll.

            (And it is also according Israelis a right to lie that you deny others. Where are your remonstrations about Ayalet Shaked’s many lies?:
            Including the Justice Minister’s brazen lies about Dean Issacharoff.)

            Thus we come to Breaking the Silence. You have to be kidding me. Is that REALLY the low level you’re coming at us with? You can’t have any idea how much you discredit yourself with the “Breaking the Silence lies” smear.

            Note the inherently self-contradicting tactic: Breaking the Silence “mostly lie” about what the army does but then again the army has to do what Breaking the Silence reported it does because of “murderous terrorists.” But it’s a lie anyway. But they have to do it. Got it. That is, Ido Geller is saying, “It is a lie that the army does it but the army has to do it anyway, so there.”

            And note the incredibly hackneyed lie that the army does what it does “because of murderous terrorists” and not to subjugate 4.5 million people to sustain a 50 year belligerent military occupation and land grab. Ido Geller, you waste our time. I give you too much credit replying to your nonsense.

            Note also that even if some Breaking the Silence person somewhere said something significantly untrue—which has never been shown–but if this were the case it is still absolutely illogical and dishonest to assert that that instance would discredit a single piece of 99.9 % of the things Breaking the Silence documents. It is remarkable to me that in a nation run by such people as Benjamin Netanyahu and Ayalet Shaked, people famous for lying, that the very same people who vote for them have the unmitigated chutzpah to say that the most honest people in all the land, the soldiers of Breaking the Silence, are liars! Black turns into white. Up is down. Can you embarrass an Israeli? Is it possible?

            And then, incredibly, Geller peddles the old Yesha Council “’Herr Sturmer’ videoesque smear, the anti-Semitic, “they do it for the money” smear:

            “…if you knew who funds them.”

            This is highly offensive. Slanderous. You discredit yourself, by yourself.

            About Feiglin, read the link. In my view many of the right wing are implicit Feiglinists and don’t own up to it or even know it. There is a lot you don’t know. Try reading +972 for a full year.

            Then there is this gem:

            ‘I said “umm what” because I didn’t understand what you were saying, what Iranian missiles has anything to do with a spring.’

            The whole point was that, of course, Iranian missiles have nothing at all to do with a spring. I don’t mean to be unkind, but really, you needed help understanding this?

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          • Ido Geller

            @Ben, gave you a detailed response in the Facebook comments section above, feel free to answer here or there. Have a lovely evening.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            OK. This is a fruitless interaction. Ido Geller I hoped I might get some useful reply that answered anything and had any integrity, but instead all I got was a steadfast ignoring and a very dishonest ad homenem attack. Emptiness. A regurgitation of propaganda, with no discernible thought to it or even connection to matters at hand. You are tedious. I won’t waste my time.

            Except for two things.

            1. You have a value. You show how sunk into cult-think, impervious to any humane, status-quo-changing discourse, is the average Netanhyahu supporter. And you show the depths to which he and they will stoop. The thing is, they love the status quo. It’s very comfortable for them. If they don’t look too far ahead, which they never do. Why would they want to listen to what is wrong with it? Why would they do anything but ape the rhetorical tactics of Netanyahu? Why would they do anything but ape his smugness and contempt? (And you can’t be bothered to read Haaretz, alas one of the few serious papers in your country, and I can’t spoon feed it to you. Like so many of your countrymen, you’re fundamentally ignorant and defiantly proud of your ignorance. You wallow in it. But go on, keep lapping up Arutz Sheva’s propaganda. But don’t expect us to take you seriously.)

            2. I won’t leave your blithe smear of the excellent men and women of Breaking the Silence unchallenged, however. You actually have the nerve to bring up Issacharoff. The smearing of whom epitomizes the dishonesty of the Israeli state and showcases the lies of the quite sinister Ayalet Shaked. Nothing could better prove what I just said, above. Nothing better clarifies who you are and where you are coming from. You also show that your claim that you are seriously reading +972 Magazine is unfounded. Because had you read this you would be embarassed to post what you just did:

            Well, OK, you, Ido Geller, YOU might not be embarrassed. Because fundamentally you appear unembarrassable. Like so many far right extremists. So it goes.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            As I told one ‘JitKunDo’ on that page:

            You are peddling a more defamatory message than anyone who “hates Israel” possibly could. You are selling the notion that the state of Israel produces a truly extraordinary percentage of traitorous liars among its soldiers. An extraordinary number of traitors lying about their military. (We can agree that IF they are lying then they are traitors. If they are telling the truth they are not traitors.) What kind of corrupt, devious population is this that so many soldiers are supposedly willing to lie, commit treason, for venal purposes? You defame Israel.

            Another thing you haven’t read that you should have read, but you didn’t and I can’t help that:

            You see, Ido Geller, had Dean Issacharoff actually committed the treasonous lying that you and Ayalet Shaked claim he did, you know and I know that Shaked would have prosecuted him for treason. But you know and I know, Ido Geller, that Shaked did not prosecute Issacharoff because Shaked knows that if she tried, all her lies would be exposed in a court of law. Everyone knows that the last thing that Ayalet Shaked, and you, really want is for Dean Issacharoff to be tried for the very things you claim he is guilty of. You are so full of it, Ido Geller, that it is embarrassing. You should be embarrassed. That you are not, says it all.

            What kind of corrupt, devious population is this that so many soldiers are supposedly willing to lie, commit treason, for venal purposes? Really, Ido Geller? You defame Israel.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Ben, replied to your posts in the Facebook comments section above in 2 posts, feel free to reply here or there. Have a great weekend.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Here’s what Ido Geller does. (It is worth noting because it showcases what so many average (that is, right wing) Israelis do.)

            1. With odd perserverativeness, an Elmer Fudd-like “I’m hunting wabbits!” zeal, Ido Geller keeps asking a non-question about a “failure” of mine: Why can’t I “admit” that some Palestinians consider all of Palestine “theirs”? As if many Israelis don’t also consider all of Palestine “theirs,” and as if that were not the whole reason a compromise final status solution is needed. Has Ido not read the comments of “Halevy” and “Lewis from Afula” in these pages? But don’t worry. He’s hunting wabbits! (But he has yet to answer me about why Israel supposedly produces so may traitorous lying soldiers. Three times I’ve asked! Ido won’t answer!)

            2. With obliviousness or malice or both, Ido Geller is repetitively presenting to us a Y-net article about Breaking the Silence’s Dean Issacharoff that is a text book case of propaganda utilizing casual slander dressed as (fake) news, a text book case of exactly that which the +972 links I provided expose as crafted lies. We see Geller seeming to be oblivious to the fact that the wrong Palestinian was (deliberately) questioned! And about the soldiers who say they were there were not there! Yes. Ayalet Shaked at her ruthless, dishonest best. This all got by you, Geller?:

            ‘The details of Issacharoff’s case are as absurd as the politics that undergird them. Shortly after the investigation was closed, two important developments came to light.
            First, Rueben Silberstone, a British lone soldier who served as a signal-operator in Issacharoff’s unit and witnessed the event, released a video online in which he confirmed Issacharoff’s account of what happened in Hebron. Silberstone was never questioned as part of the investigation.
            Second, Issacharoff was never asked if the Palestinian who was questioned during the investigation was indeed the Palestinian he beat and arrested in Hebron. The state prosecutor claimed that it had questioned a man named Hassan Jolani, who contradicted the account Issacharoff gave. But Issacharoff was never shown a picture of Jolani, nor Jolani of Issacharoff. “If they had even asked me to identify the Palestinian at any stage of the investigation, I would have told them that this is not the person, and this is not the event,” Issacharoff stated in a video released online. “If they had checked this, would they still be calling me a liar?”’

            And what is Ido Geller’s conclusion from all this? It is: “Dean Issacharoff is a proven liar.” Yup. Nothing exposes the mindset of the typical actual Israeli better than that last statement by Mr. Geller.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Report and video about the Israeli prosecutor’s use of the wrong Palestinian and the wrong commander. Yes, the wrong commander too:

            But Issacharoff had claimed that they interviewed the wrong Palestinian. The video clip was released in an effort to prove that claim. The footage shows that a deputy company commander who has backed Issacharoff’s story was indeed present. But according to sources in Breaking the Silence, none of the soldiers in the company who denied that an assault occurred and claimed that Issacharoff invented the story can be seen in the clip. Moreover, the sources said, the footage shows that the company commander police questioned, who also denied Issacharoffs story, is a different company commander than the one who was present at the scene. …
            Avner Gvaryahu, the executive director of Breaking the Silence, said that when the prosecution, on the basis of an embarrassing and negligent investigation, decides that Dean Issacharoff is a liar, that ought to frighten every citizen of the country who cares about democracy. The fact that the truth came to light only because Breaking the Silence managed, in four days, to conduct the investigation the law enforcement agencies failed to conduct in half a year — after dedicating themselves to a political agenda — is horrifying, he said.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            @Ben, replied to your posts in the Facebook comments section as always, have a great week.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            @Ido Geller:

            1. Are those Israelis the actual leaders and policy makers in Israel ?

            Yes, they are. This is self-evident. To use your words, it dictates their actual policy and actions.

            2. Are they the top military leaders of Israel ?

            Those military leaders sure act like it, if we go by the orders they follow and by what they command their troops to do. I have heard that some of them make a dovish about-face the minute they retire and run on a “leftist” ticket but I’m just going by their behavior in uniform. Wouldn’t want to be presumtuous and judge them by something other than their public actions in uniform. To use your words, it dictates their actual policy and actions.

            3. Are they even the majority of Israelis ?

            If we go by their voting behavior, and by their blithe indifference to what their settlers and soldiers do, their quasi-worship of those soldiers, and by their hostility to Breaking the Silence, absolutely. In all of this, the majority of Israelis are complicit and stand implicated. Incontestably.

            4. “brainwashed from being taught in schools…to their sermons…from the infants to the elderly”

            Describes the Israeli education system too. Did you go to school in the USA? Sounds like it. I don’t mean to be rude, but I should be honest, I continue to be impressed with your smugness, your condescension towards Palestinians, your studied ignorance and self-righteousness, but also how easily this cocoon is punctured.

            More to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            5. “The compromise is keeping Israel in existence”

            Well, this is your base assumption, the base of the pyramid, and it is not sound, it is by now, in 2018, a very tired old lie that has so many cracks in it that it cannot support any serious argument. And when the base crumbles, the whole edifice falls. Ido, no one objective believes this assertion of yours. Even Ehud Barak in his latest essay debunks this, says that the threat posed by a Palestinian state is simply not an existential threat and Israel’s top thinkers and security experts know this full well. If Israel put one tenth of the energy and expertise and effort it puts into suppressing an entire people in the furtherance of its relentless “settlement enterprise” into instead building a strong neighbor and creating good will in Palestine it could neutralize any extremist threat very well. It has done much harder things. It knows this. Again, no one objective buys what you’re selling, Ido.

            6. Halevy and Lewis out of Afula are representative of many right wing Israelis. I made my point clearly. You’re obfuscating it.

            7. Yet again I will ask you, Ido, because you keep side-stepping this question:

            You are peddling a more defamatory message than anyone who “hates Israel” possibly could. You are selling the notion that the state of Israel produces a truly extraordinary percentage of traitorous liars among its soldiers. An extraordinary number of traitors lying about their military. (We can agree that IF they are lying then they are traitors. If they are telling the truth they are not traitors.) What kind of corrupt, devious population is this that so many soldiers are supposedly willing to lie, commit treason, for venal purposes?
            Answer the question, Ido. What kind of country is this?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            8. It is clear to me from your persistently slanderous comments about Issacharoff and Breaking the Silence that there is absolutely nothing, no matter how honest, clear and concrete, that could move you to greater rationality on this. I might as well be talking to Tom Cruise about why Scientology is a criminal organization masquerading as a religion. I would get as far.

            9. I must say, though, it takes remarkable shamelessness for an Israeli to complain that “its citizens stand accused without due process and without a possibility to defend themselves before a kangaroo court of public opinion.”

            In the first place, when ever, Ido Geller, did Israel ever offer the slightest due process to Palestinians detained? You make me laugh. (Hell, when did Israel give Dean Issacharoff due process before it coldy and with malice slandered him?)

            Secondly, oh why is it that Israelis can’t defend themselves? The army either refuses to investigate Breaking the Silence claims or simply took the claims and turned around and prosecuted the whistleblowers in order to silence them. As it did with Dean Issacharoff with the added twist that the Justice Minister brazenly lies about Issacharoff. That is why Breaking the Silence stopped cooperating with the army. You can’t lie your way through this. These things are too well known. Israel does not want due process. That is the very last thing it wants. Gangsters want anything but due process.

            In the third place (as I think I already told you quite clearly) if the army and the Justice Minister actually, honestly, thought for one second that Breaking the Silence was actually lying, you know and I know that they would prosecute the hell out of these soldiers for treason. That they never have prosecuted them, have never dared touch them except to covertly persecute them, speaks louder than any nonsense you can spiel out here.

            More to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            10. Finally, there is nothing like true authority and authenticity. It’s the antiddote to all this nonsense spieled out about Issacharoff and Breaking the Silence and about the occupation .

            ​TO ALL: I recommend if you have not yet that you listen to Yehuda Shaul of Breaking the Silence:

            Yehuda Shaul – Breaking the Silence – Seattle, Nov 14, 2013

            It’s worth the whole hour and 38 minutes. If you want the quick take home message go to minute 21:00. Watch 21:00-25:00. Israel tells itself and others it’s playing defense but it’s really playing offense. It always says it’s on the way out but it’s really always on the way in. Before 21:00 he describes Breaking the Silence’s purpose: to show Israelis: “This is what we in the military really do in your name.” From 25:00 on he describes what he means by “offense.” He describes how the idea of “prevention,” for example, expands to include every offensive (in both meanings of the term) action you can think of. And the idea of “separation” and how it becomes ruthlessly limitless. And on and on. If you start watching him speak you will want to listen to the end. Watch this video! It will open your eyes. It will open your eyes to the hollowness of every argument you hear about why the occupation can’t end.

            Ido Geller, please be so kind as to number 1-10 your replies to me.
            Thank you. Have a nice day.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            @Ben, as usual replied in the Facebook comments section, in detail. Feel free to answer here or there. Have a wonderful evening.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            I’m done, Ido Geller. I’m content to let points made stand. Let others read this exchange to date and let them make up their minds. One knows when one is dealing with an internet troll. Wittingly or unwittingly, all you’re doing is sucking us into deeper layers of deligitimization, dishonesty, distraction and dumbing down. Lies proliferate, distortions propagate, cheap clichés escalate. They would be endless if I let this go on, what you’re steering us towards, a black hole of distraction. And obfuscation and lowered standards. So we would all lose the points that really matter. Anti-Semitizing lies about what Abbas really said, vicious lies about Breaking the Silence. All with the cheesiest anti-Semitizing tactics. Shameless, transparent stuff. Wittingly or unwittingly. You may really believe this stuff. Ido, I feel you should seek better goodness of fit. I feel that a better fit for you would be something like the forums of the JPost “talkback” sections. Interacting with you further here will only drag the level down. You are an example of the willful blindnesses and the cult-like impenetrability of the mass of right wing Israelis but we’ve exhausted the didactic utility of this.
            You can stop wishing me a fake good evening and a fake great weekend now. The merry go round of mendacity stops now.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            @Ben, as usual I replied in the Facebook comments section, in detail. Have a great weekend.

            Reply to Comment
    5. Bruce Gould

      @Ido Geller: 1970’s? I guess that proves it. You live in a country in which 20% of the citizens are Palestinian. What do you Palestinian friends say they want?

      Reply to Comment
      • Ido

        @Bruce Gould, that proves what exactly ? and not all the Arab citizens of Israel identify as Palestinians, you weren’t aware of it ? the most common thing I hear from Palestinians is how they are not happy with their leadership, in both factions. I sometimes hear “you (Jews) don’t belong here, your doom is a matter of time” and “I really want the new iPhone and Netflix is awesome”. Depends what kind of person you’re talking to.

        Reply to Comment
    6. Gershom

      Mr. geller,

      The veracity of a-the Palestinian state past and present is proven by the same means as intelligent human beings use to know the veracity of other states or countries such as the U.S.A. or israel and historical events catastrophes such as the Nahkba and Shoah. To deny one proven is to deny the means and to deny all. Your ignorance of consequences would be pitiable if it were not so offensive. Please find a reason to have a little respect.

      Reply to Comment
    7. David Miltier

      If the very existence of Israel as a Jewish nation of 6.5 million Jews depends on the imprisonment of 3 million Palestinians in the West Bank and another 2 million Palestinians in Gaza then Israel is not legitimate. In 1967 the occupation of the Territories was presented as something temporary. By holding on to these areas for 51 years now and by the government’s stated policy of annexing parts if not most of this area Israel delegitimizes itself, and I say this as an Israeli. The only way now to even begin to correct the injustice of Israel’s colonial enterprise is for Israel to recognize equal rights for all people from the river to the sea. Until this happens Israel will remain illegitimate. No use fighting illegitimacy when Israel itself is the cause.

      Reply to Comment
      • Lewis from Afula

        End the so-called “imprisonment” – repatriate the Jordanians to the East Bank. Their relatives in Amman are waiting for them.

        Reply to Comment
        • Bruce Gould

          @Lewis: https://www.un.org/press/en/2012/ga11317.doc.htm

          “Voting by an overwhelming majority — 138 in favour to 9 against (Canada, Czech Republic, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia (Federated States of), Nauru, Panama, Palau, United States), with 41 abstentions — the General Assembly today accorded Palestine non-Member Observer State status in the United Nations.”

          Reply to Comment
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