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Leaving Palestine: 'Give 'em something to talk about'

A fleeting moment of romance in grueling border terminal that devours you alive — and yet you don’t die. A day at the Allenby border crossing. (Read part one of this series here.)

By Bassam Almohor

Saqallah ala ayyam zaman (I long for the old times) when we used to travel all over el blad (the country),” my father uttered with tears in his eyes; he longed for the old days. Are they really that old? Until the late eighties, I was able to go to Gaza in a single bus ride, no transfers, straight from Jenin to Gaza. And now you tell me I can’t even go to Jerusalem? That I need a brown paper? They call it permit, and a plastic card they call “momaghnata” (magnetic). Sagallah ala ayyam zaman, when it used to take us only half an hour to reach the airport in Lydda. Do you want to know how I have to travel? Are you ready for the details? Sometimes, it takes us 12 hours to cross the border, the first border to the airport; it’s a painful, dirty, ugly, long, tiresome, boring and sad journey.

It starts on a Thursday morning when I went to work as usual. I quickly finish up all that I could so I can leave before noon. I had a three-week vacation for New Year’s and I decided to leave the smoky, dusty area I live in. I arrive in the center of town and go straight to the bus station (or the van station, to be precise). The van I find is completely empty — except for the girl sitting in the front seat. I sit in the back, reading a paper I picked from the kiosk next to the station. I’m wearing a red jacket and a Palestinian keffiyah around my neck.

She was wearing a black leather jacket. That’s all I noticed from the back seat. I saw her from the back, her glowing curly hair and her facial expressions that I couldn’t really see. I thought I knew this girl, or maybe we’d met before. Our city is small and there’s really no reason we shouldn’t know each other. I quickly flush that idea out of my head since thoughts like those are only excuses to talk to the girl with the beautiful curly hair sitting in front of me, or only to get to talk to a young girl – especially when traveling, when getting to know people becomes easier, since we share the same fate.

She looks back twice, our eyes meet, but my eyes quickly and shyly run back to the bold headlines in my newspaper – trying to read something here and there. The van is full now, ready to go toward the land border, what they call istiraha (an eternal waiting room, or shed) or jisr (the bridge), the place I hate most. We arrive at last and I sigh in relief; we have safely arrived at the first stop, the one I was worried about as I thought about how we would cross.

Palestinians wait at the Allenby bridge border crossing. (By Bassam Almohor)

Palestinians wait at the Allenby bridge border crossing. (By Bassam Almohor)

I get out of the van and carry my backpack toward the queue of hundreds of people carrying whatever they can – boxes, bags, barrels of olive oil, a thousand other things that are impossible to count. The image reminds me of our exodus, our expulsion – it reminds me of the Nakba: thousands of people leaving, waiting for the unknown, carrying their belongings in boxes and standing in line.

I feel alienated. What am I doing in this place? It’s not mine; I’m wasn’t born for this. I feel tired, sick and nauseated. I try not to look at anybody, not to let my eyes meet anybody else’s. She is standing there next to me. She speaks on her cellular phone every now and then. I can hear her lovely voice.

I think of talking to her. It’s a great opportunity to talk to her, I thought to myself, but only when she finishes her phone call. I look at her again, but… I hate mobile phones. Her phone rings again.

And since I’m not that patient, I think to myself, “fuck it, forget it. I don’t want to talk to that ‘cellular’ girl.” Let me get back to my newspaper. I feel the urgent need to have a smoke. I don’t dare. It’s Ramadan!

I put down the rucksack I was still carrying, dig out my paper and continue reading. I start reading the opinion pages, which I have never done before; I was never interested, but in this place, with all this waiting, I could even read the sports pages. To no avail, I couldn’t focus even on one full sentence. There was no room for that; she is right next to me and it is clear we both need to talk, to break that silence between our noisy and miserable fellow travelers, to make these long hours of waiting the slightest bit easier in some way.

Read part one of this series

I examine the faces of my fellow travelers without looking into their eyes. They are miserable. Are all of them thinking what I’m thinking? “Fuck it. Why? Are other people forced to travel like us, waiting all these hours in a border town 250 meters below sea level? Why only us? Fuck borders.” Is that what all the hundreds of travelers all around me are thinking, or is it only me? I don’t know. At least some of them were thinking that, I think. Perhaps some of them are thinking about meeting their loved ones on the other side of the border. But this is only the first border; there is more checking ahead, three more stops on the western side of this miserable river called Jordan and two more on its eastern side. All of this misery and agonizing waiting just to get to a nice police officer who says you can cross. Some of them must be thinking of their studies, some about their lovers, their daughters, sons or their businesses. Some of them chat and laugh. They are strong. How can they have fun even in these long moments of waiting? Or are they trying to be sarcastic in an attempt to defeat this oppression?

It’s one of the more difficult moments in life — when alienation reveals its ugly face. It’s one of the most difficult situations when borders devour you alive, but you don’t die. You see hatred and exhaustion, you see patience in the eyes of mothers and children, and in the eyes of a nearly 80-year-old man inching along on his crutches, clutching his his passport like a wall to protect himself with.

All of this and more fill these moments, in these long hours of waiting that explode with anger and hatred that stick in our hearts. She shouts at the police officer who was helplessly trying to gather his dignity, or what was left of it. But in this place, dignity is dumped in the garbage bin. Everyone wants to get out of this place. Everybody pushes toward the bus that takes a few of us at a time — the bus that takes the lucky ones. And let’s not forget that it’s Ramadan. The travelers here are fasting, or not, but they cannot say it out loud. They can’t drink, smoke or eat until sunset. Even those who do not fast, or cannot fast, must do so in public.

It felt like a breath of fresh air, or a fresh, cold drop of water when she came back and stood close to me. At that moment, when I hear her shouting at the police officer, I think of what to say, to start a conversation with her: “Do you think we’ll make it to the other side of the border today?” But suddenly she is on the other side of the mass of human chaos. I think that maybe she found a way to leave, that she found an opening, a place to jump over the human wall. I am suddenly sad, but at the same time content because I won’t have a chance to get to know her. If I knew her, I think to myself, it would be more difficult and sad to leave her.

I roll my eyes back to my newspaper, to the article I was trying to read — to the beginning of the article because I forgot where I stopped reading when her shouting interrupted me. I forgot all about the article. Perhaps it was the tenth time that I reread the first paragraph. I check the sentences, phrases and words, trying to find something to distract me from the thoughts in my head, or the sadness that lingers over the moment when I will have to leave her.

But she comes back again and stands next to me. I look up and immediately find her next to me, this time very close. I feel stupid and sad that I didn’t have the guts to scream at the police officer. I stare at her again to double check that it is really her standing next to me. Yes, she’s the one. I hear her talking and cursing the police officers. I’m happy, she’s back. I’m happier this time; I can definitely start talking to her. I hesitate. I repeat the rehearsed sentence several times in my head, as if I’m going to deliver a speech on some international stage, until I am finally able to utter into her ear: “You gave them something to talk about.”

To be continued…

Read this article in Hebrew on Local Call here.

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    COMMENTS

    1. Tzutzik

      Very simple. The response to Ehud Barak’s peace offer in 2001 was a bloody Intifada.

      Palestinians showed us how much they hate us they were willing to die by blowing themselves up just so they can kill a few of us at a time. And thousands of us were murdered or maimed by them that way.

      Remember the slogans …

      “We love death as much as Jews love life … ”

      “You Jews have your smartbombs and we have our human smart bombs …”

      That’s what happened. Subsequently. We had to build a wall and have check points to protect ourselves. Karma is hard to take isn’t it?

      Reply to Comment
      • Arieh Zimmerman

        Check the body count of Palestinians vs. Israelis since 1967; does it indicate who is the aggressor and who is the victim? If not, why not?

        Reply to Comment
        • Tony Riley

          Surely you mean the winner and the loser?

          Reply to Comment
    2. Dazed and Confused

      The motto of the global Left is “We love death more than the Yahood love life”. And this border is the consequence of that evil policy.

      The “Palestinian” people (and their allies on the German Left) bear SOLE responsibility for the consequences or their evil policies. SOLE responsibility.

      Imagine another world – – –
      Imagine a world where the “Palestinian” people hadn’t killed a half-million Iraqis (according to the Lancet) . . . imagine if Judith Butler’s boys hadn’t ritually slaughtered 130,000 Syrians . . . imagine if the allies of the German Left had not taken those schoolgirls into sex slavery in Nigeria – imagine how much better the world would be. Imagine how much easier life would be for the “Palestinian” colonists if they hadn’t engaged in such wicked behavior. But I guess reflection, Humanity, and self-criticism is not a cultural trait of the global Left.

      And so the “Palestinians” will continue to suffer for their own self-defeating policies.

      Reply to Comment
    3. hala

      You punish all Palestinians because of a minority act ! What is my fault in this ! The children !The elders ! Who are you to choose a punch of humans destiny !! If you believe in God you’d know that he is justice , I believe you get what I mean !

      Reply to Comment
      • Tzutzik

        Who says the wall and the check points are intended as punishment? They are intended to protect us from your murderers.

        By the way, the actual terrorists who commit terrorism against us may be a minority. But the majority of you seem to support them. How do I know? I know because in 2005 when you had free elections, the majority of you voted for Hamas. And what does Hamas want? They want to kill all the Yahoodi. And those they can’t kill, they want to expel. How do I know? They say so all the time. They even brag about it. And the majority of the Palestinians voted for them.

        Reply to Comment
    4. Hala

      oh Stop it please.. not a punishment !! really .. all inhumanity we go through ,, being checked over and over ! for your safety !! what about ours ! do you think that your continuous act will raise our anger !!
      I my self do not belong to any party and many many I know are the same..but I really feel frustrated and full of anger every time i go thru any of this inhumane act whether the killing boarders or the checkpoints.. all OF WHAT MANY OF US WANT IS SOME RIGHTS like people all over the world.. freedom of movement freedom of trade just very simple stuff,, but you guys do NOT want peace you want to keep oppressing the Palestinians and then you cry because of their reaction,, if you oppress your child what the action would he take ! he will do everything you dont want him to ! right !! very simple ma dear

      Reply to Comment
      • Tzutzik

        “oh Stop it please.. not a punishment !! really .. ”

        No, NOT a punishment. Does it feel like punishment? I have no doubt that it does. I also have no doubt that some of us may be over zealous. But that is just unfortunate. It comes with the territory. You want to murder us? Some of you do. Don’t even try to deny it, then that’s what you get.

        “all inhumanity we go through ,, being checked over and over ! for your safety !!”

        It is pretty inhuman too when you send human bombs to blow us up. Don’t you think?

        “what about ours ! ”

        Yea, what about yours? Make peace with us and the check points will go away. Continue making war and we too will do what we have to do to protect ourselves.

        “do you think that your continuous act will raise our anger !!”

        Stop it. Just stop it. Anger is all you had against us for the last 100 years. You are angry purely because we are HERE. You were angry before there even was occupation. You were angry in 1929 when you massacred the Jews of Hebron because your Mufti of Jerusalem told you to do it. But look what your anger got you and got us? Neither one of us is happy. Time to use your brains, not your emotions. Make peace with us. Ehud Barak tried, Olmer tried, but your leaders were not interested. Time to look for leaders who are interested in peace, NO?

        “I my self do not belong to any party and many many I know are the same..but I really feel frustrated and full of anger every time i go thru any of this inhumane act whether the killing boarders or the checkpoints.. ”

        Well, for what it is worth, we feel the same, everytime one of your terrorists murders some of us. It is no fun to be targets of murderers who don’t want the existence of a Jewish state.

        “all OF WHAT MANY OF US WANT IS SOME RIGHTS like people all over the world.. freedom of movement freedom of trade just very simple stuff,, but you guys do NOT want peace you want to keep oppressing the Palestinians and then you cry because of their reaction,, if you oppress your child what the action would he take ! he will do everything you dont want him to ! right !! very simple ma dear”

        That’s what we want too. But so long as Hamas rules and lobs tockets at us, neither of us can have what we want. Even your PA is not better. They demand that we release terrorists who murdered Israelis. They make heroes out of them. Give them pensions and name streets after them. And they don’t want to sign a peace deal with us. Go and complain to Hamas. Go and complain to Abbas. Make them sign a peace deal with us. And things will improve for both of us. But not before.

        Reply to Comment
        • directrob

          “No, NOT a punishment. Does it feel like punishment? I have no doubt that it does. I also have no doubt that some of us may be over zealous. But that is just unfortunate. It comes with the territory. You want to murder us? Some of you do. Don’t even try to deny it, then that’s what you get.”

          A bit of collective punishment? How can first you deny it and than admit it in one paragraph? Just zealots doing it? That is an easy way to absolve a nation. It also is a lie.

          Reply to Comment
    5. Tzutzik

      “A bit of collective punishment? How can first you deny it and than admit it in one paragraph? Just zealots doing it? That is an easy way to absolve a nation. It also is a lie.”

      Awwww Directrob, just give it a break. You are not an honest broker.

      Fact 1: When Israel tried peace. When Israel withdrew. It always got suicide bombers and rockets in response.

      Fact 2: When Israel used strong arm tactics such as the wall, check points and military raids, the violence slowed down.

      Please feel free to suggest a better alternative that does not involve unconditional surrender by us.

      PS
      I did not admit anything. I stated facts. All peoples all armies have some who sometimes are over zealous. No full proof method to curb them in the Middle of a war that the other side insists on waging. The key is to concentrate on the party which wants war. That is the only way that BOTH sides can live in dignity.

      The problem with people like you Rob is that you only want to work on us and not on them. So we become deaf to people like you.

      Reply to Comment
    6. Tzutzik

      Fact 3: Since 1987, about 4300 Palestinians died during violent upheavals which Palestinians initiated against Israel.

      Had the balance of power been the opposite, millions of us would be dead and the rest would be rowing on boats looking for places where someone would give use refuge. We didn’t have too much success on that score 70 years ago so I doubt whether we would do better this time.

      Do you doubt that scenario Rob? Then look at Syria, look at Egypt, look at Iraq and look at the Lebanese civil war. Hundreds of thousands died in much shorter periods. And those were Arab on Arab wars. How do you think they would deal with Jews? Better or worse? Your answer will reveal a lot about you, Rob. But I suspect you won’t respond. It is safer that way. Isn’t it?

      Reply to Comment
      • directrob

        Tzutzik,
        Israel is a safe place to visit (goisrael site) and I guess for me the same is true when I visit the West Bank or Gaza (whether Area A, B or C).

        Your arguments that Israeli zealots cannot be controlled because there is a war is unbelievable.

        As for Palestinian rights I am sure they have none and that is by design to support the slow invasion of Israeli in the West Bank. That is a war crime that denies Palestinians their human rights.

        The most obvious solution is total withdrawal from the West Bank (Including Jerusalem) and Gaza and ample financial compensation for the refugees and return for those few that refuse compensation. An alternative solution is one secular state, but that leaves the problem of ROR compensation and compensation for West Bank / Jerusalem land theft.

        Israel has enough firepower to bomb half the world to kingdom come so I am not going to answer hypothetical questions.

        Reply to Comment
        • Samuel

          Directrob, since you ignored everything that Tzutzik said about how the Palestinians have caused the violence throughout history and you only want to concentrate on how Israel responded to that, I will help Tzutzik to remind you of that fact!

          “Tzutzik,
          Israel is a safe place to visit (goisrael site) and I guess for me the same is true when I visit the West Bank or Gaza (whether Area A, B or C).”

          Only because Israel showed the Palestinians that violence will bite them too. But even this way, some of the Arabs still manage to carry out violent acts. In return for which Israel too responds with violence.

          “Your arguments that Israeli zealots cannot be controlled because there is a war is unbelievable.”

          Oh OK then I guess you are then saying that Abbas too can control his fanatics but he is not interested in doing so?

          “The most obvious solution is …”

          I think that the only thing that is obvious is that you insist on unconditional surrender by Israel. Which is the party that suffered aggression from the Palestinians for the last 100 years even though Israel gained the upper hand and now happens to be the stronger party militarily.

          What you advocate is equivalent to demanding unconditional surrender by the allies at the end of WW2 to Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan after those two were thoroughly defeated militarily.

          What you advocate is the height of Hutzpah. But not only that, it is immoral and impractical.

          “Israel has enough firepower to bomb half the world to kingdom come so I am not going to answer hypothetical questions.”

          Tzutzik’s question wasn’t hypothetical. In fact it wasn’t even a question. He made a point which people like you wilfully ignore.

          His point was that despite your accusations that we are evil. That Israel is evil. Israel has minimised the number of casualties. By your own admission, we wield a far superior fire power than the Arabs. Yet in 40 years of Arab initiated violence, since 1987, only 4500 of them lost their lives. At the same time in which they caused us pain by murdering and maiming many of us too.

          If The Palestinians or even others had such military superiority, there would have been hundreds of thousands dead Palestinians by now and there would be no remaining Palestinian resistance. But you insist that we are the evil ones? Thats just shows your own bias Directrob. Tzutzik was right about that too.

          Reply to Comment
          • Samuel

            I worded the last paragraph badly. I should have said:

            “If the situation would be reversed, there would have been hundreds of thousands dead Jews by now and there would be no remaining Jewish resistance.”

            Reply to Comment
          • Tzutzik

            Some people just can’t help themselves, Sam.

            Rob is one of those people.

            Reply to Comment
          • andrew r

            Which is the party that suffered aggression from the Palestinians for the last 100 years even though Israel gained the upper hand and now happens to be the stronger party militarily.

            The Zionists are the aggressors in this conflict, full stop. They joined the British occupation as an auxiliary force (the Jewish Legion) and obtained the Balfour Declaration with the intent of turning Palestine into a Jewish state. That means they initiated the military conflict no less than had they raised an army and invaded under their own banner.

            If the situation would be reversed, there would have been hundreds of thousands dead Jews by now

            Actually, nobody would be killed at all over Zionism if the situation were reversed, because if the Palestinians had serious military hardware, it would also mean they got an independent state immediately after WWI. Which in turn means the Zionists would not have attempted to colonize it further. You might want to try thinking through these silly hypotheticals.

            Reply to Comment
          • Tzutzik

            NO! The Arabs are the aggressors in this conflict, full stop.

            “with the intent of turning Palestine into a Jewish state.”

            But IT IS a Jewish state. Live with it Andrew. It always was. Even before the Arab invasion of the 7th century. Jews always lived here and it was once a sovereign Jewish state known as Judea. Before the Romans temporarily took it off us. On the other hand, when was Palestine a sovereign Arab state? ANSWER: Never!

            As for your claim that what I said was hypothetical, it isn’t at all.

            Look at what Arabs do even to each other. Syria, Iraq, Egypt, the Lebanese civil war … Hundreds of thousands of dead people … Arabs murdered by Arabs … What do you think they would do to us Jews if they had the power that we have, and if we would then dare to do what they do to us, in their 100 year war against us?

            Reply to Comment
          • andrew r

            As for your claim that what I said was hypothetical, it isn’t at all.

            There’s a problem with your reading comprehension, and something tells me it would still apply if I wrote the same thing in Hebrew. The hypothetical is the Palestinians having the same military hardware as Israel. Such hardware would be obtainable only if they had a state of their own, and while under the LoN Mandate system Palestine was technically a state, it was administered by Britain. The only way the Palestinians could have obtained the same military hardware as Israel is if Palestine was self-governing. And a self-governing Palestine would not have permitted mass immigration. So following the hypothetical (again, having the same military hardware as Israel) to its logical conclusion, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as we know it today simply would not have taken place at all. It would not even have started.

            The real point here is that all 4500 Palestinians who were killed by Israel since 1987 died because the Zionists wanted their land. When Jews were getting killed by the hundreds in Ukraine and Moldova at the turn of the century, they didn’t sigh in relief that at least it wasn’t the Belgian Congo. 4500 or 450,000, it’s not acceptable.

            Reply to Comment
          • Tzutzik

            “There’s a problem with your reading comprehension”

            The only reading comprehension is yours, Andrew. I was the one who came up with the hypothetical in order to make the point. But you want to ignore that point so you distorted my hypothetical.

            Here is the point that I made again just so you can grasp it and weep …

            If the situation would be reversed and the Palis would be the ones with the kind of military superiority that we have over them, millions of us Jewish Israelis would be murdered by them and the rest of us would be refugees.

            We on the other hand minimised their casualties over 40 years but we could not prevent casualties entirely because we had to defend ourselves from them.

            “because the Zionists wanted their land”

            … and that is the crux of their problem. Thanks for admitting it Andrew, the claim that IT IS their land. IT ISN’T!!!! It is just their ASSERTION (and yours). But that isn’t reality. It is because of that fantasy of theirs that they have been making war on us for the last 100 years. And I am sorry that it upsets you (NOT!!!), but if they make war on us we have to defend ourselves. So there will be check points, there will be walls and sadly some on both sides will die and get injured.

            Want that to stop? Then stop the fantasy about “THEIR land”. We are both here. There is room for TWO states. There will never be ONLY an Arab state and NO Jewish state!

            They should however heed what Rob said about our ability to blow up half the world. Should they force us to do THAT, you can rest assured that the Middle East and 400 million Arabs will be part of the half that won’t exist. If you don’t want to see such an acopalypse, you better convince them that there won’t be 72 virgins to greet them. And that those who survive would be the unlucky ones.

            One last thing. Please don’t think that what I say is just a hypothetical. We won’t allow ourselves to be victims of another holocaust without extracting a very heavy price from those who want to perpetrate it. Hey if America was willing to do it in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we are willing to do it too. Much as we don’t really want to resort to it if we don’t have to. But we will if necessary. In the early days of the 1973, it nearly happened. Think about THAT!

            Reply to Comment
          • IlonJ

            The Arabs and their paid up market consultants have always been experts at wiping out other people’s histories and identities.

            Just ask the Berbers of North Africa. Just ask the remnants of Christians in Arab countries. Has anyone heard what they tried to do recently to that poor pregnant girl in Sudan who married a Christian? They sentenced her to death for apostasy and adultery.

            Never mind. They won’t manage to do it to us Jews. We are at least as steadfast as they are. And I would say more so. Wait and see. We are a very patient people. We survived against all odds. We will survive the Arab threat too.

            Reply to Comment
          • directrob

            “The Arabs and their paid up market consultants have always been experts at wiping out other people’s histories and identities.”

            You are Karl Roving me but I am not fooled. I should read “Israeli” where is says “Arabs” and think of the great global language book by Dr Frank Luntz. I advice you to read it.

            http://www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres9/Globalanguage.pdf

            “And remember, it’s not what you say that counts. It’s what people hear.”

            Reply to Comment
          • Tzutzik

            You mean Israel too is trying to spread it’s side of the story as effectively as possible?

            Well, I never. I am truly shocked. Who would have thunk that we would sink so low! I say loooooowwww, Rob!!!

            Reply to Comment
          • Andrew r

            What’s more, all the Mideastern Christians you supposedly care about will be dead by your nuclear weapons. It’s like you’re running for miss hypocrite.

            Reply to Comment
          • andrew r

            Should they force us to do THAT, you can rest assured that the Middle East and 400 million Arabs will be part of the half that won’t exist.

            Awesome. For a long time now we’ve been hearing Israel is a democracy and liberals should support it as a safe haven for homosexuals, women and Middle Eastern Christians. You just threw that in the garbage by threatening these groups in the Arab countries with nuclear weapons. And there are still Jews living in the MENA outside Israel, also the Asian FSU. Rants like this only validate my theory that you don’t really care about Jews being safe.

            Reply to Comment
          • Tzutzik

            Andrew

            The only ranter and hypocrite is you. I also said that I hope we won’t have to resort to that. But we will if we face another Holocaust. Hopefully such a THREAT alone will be enough to avert all of that from happening.

            You have heard of the M.A.D, (Mutually Assured Destruction) doctrine haven’t you? Democratic America was a practitioner of it. And America showed that it wasn’t just an idle threat when it dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Yet you, an American won’t claim that America is not a democracy? Will you, Andrew … ?

            Reply to Comment
          • andrew r

            You said a lot of things, Tzutzik, and the part I quoted in italics indicates the Zionist state, with you at the controls, will kill a large percentage of the world’s population regardless of their proximity to the Middle East. At the very least you’re not even going to limit nuclear retaliation to whatever power is threatening Israel… anyone who speaks Arabic is marked for death.

            Regardless of your “I hope we don’t have to” qualifier, it shows you really don’t care about those minority groups Israel advocates champion for on weekdays.

            However, I do believe you really don’t want to use nuclear weapons off the bat, if only because you may get destroyed in the process. What I’m taking away from this is that while Israel may not commit Babi Yar-type massacres on a daily basis, it’s not moral scruples holding you back, but political or economic constraints on your freedom to kill indiscriminately. You’ve outed yourself as a genocidal maniac this time.

            Reply to Comment
          • Tzutzik

            “You’ve outed yourself as a genocidal maniac this time.”

            I have? Andrew dear? For telling you about M.A.D? You want to shoot the messenger? Ok then shoot me.

            But you are not a hypocrite, are you Andrew? FYI America practiced that doctrine too. And you as an American are not upset by that?

            Nor do you seem to be talking too much about the hundreds of thousands of Arabs whom other Arabs murder and torture as we speak. The ONLY thing you are preoccupied with is Israel which is amateurish in comparison to what Arabs do to each other and to others when they can.

            You are a hypocrite Andrew. A hypocrite with double standards and lots of hatred inside of you. Get over yourself and stop preaching to others …

            Reply to Comment
          • Andrew r

            Considering for Israelis destruction includes too many Palestinian births, it’s not exactly reassuring when you speak about M.A.D.

            Reply to Comment
          • Tzutzik

            Yep Andrew, just continue evading all points that I made and use every opportunity to bash your favorite villain, us!

            After a while it just gets boring.

            Reply to Comment
          • Tzutzik

            Did I say America too wielded M.A.D, in the past tense?

            I should have said that it still does, in present tense. What do you think America would do if someone would unleash a holocaust on America? Take it on the chin?

            What about Russia? What would they do if Russia would be destroyed by an external enemy? Would they take it on the chin?

            What about China?

            What about India?

            What about England?

            What about France?

            What about Pakistan?

            None of them would take total destruction, prospective or actual, on the chin! They would retaliate or prevent it, given the chance, with every available force at their disposal. Don’t even try to deny it.

            Why do you expect Israel to take it on the chin Andrew?

            Reply to Comment
          • andrew r

            While we’re on the subject, how do you think these nuclear powers would react if any one part of them was being colonized by foreign nationals who wanted autonomy? Most likely they would nip it in the bud by prohibiting entry or deportation against those who already arrived. Now, if these large nation-states were broken apart following a war (not likely since they have nukes, but bear with me) and the occupier allowed mass immigration, how do you expect the residents to react? They would welcome the immigrant-settlers with open arms and readily agree to partition, right? They would give the outsiders first choice of redrawing the border within their territory and some would even voluntarily vacate to expedite the changing demographic balance.

            Does that sound unlikely? That’s how the Palestinians were supposed to react to Zionism according to its apologists.

            Reply to Comment
          • Tzutzik

            “While we’re on the subject, how do you think these nuclear powers would react if any one part of them was being colonized by foreign nationals”

            Fuck you Andrew. You keep on doing this.

            I keep on answering most of your points (if not all) but you never answer the points that I raise.

            Never mind. I will answer this nonsense of yours too and you just keep on ignoring my points. I will beat you on points that way …

            “Colonized”, you say? The only way that statement would be true in the case of Palestine, if you could prove that every inch of Palestine belonged to Arabs and that none of Palestine belonged to Jews. I bet you can’t do that Andrew. But I can prove that Jews have at least as much right to own PART of Palestine, as Arabs do. See? Andrew, I could be as strident as you and assert that ALL of Judea and Samaria as well as Israel belong to Israel only and that Arabs are just descendants of foreign invadars who don’t belong there. But I would then just be as ridiculous as you are …

            Here is a valid test for exclusive ownership of a land by a people:

            1. Sovereignity.

            The Arabs of Palestine fail on that score because there never was a sovereign Arab Palestine in the whole history of mankind.

            2. Having a title deed according to the laws of the sovereign power governing the land.

            The Arabs of Palestine fail on that score too. They never had title deeds to every square inch of Palestine.

            3. Ownership by default by living on the land and cultivating it.

            The Arabs of Palestine fail on that score too. They never cultivated ALL the land of Palestine. In fact, when Jewish refugees started returning to the land in the 1800s, there were no more than maybe 350,000 to 400,000 people in the whole of Palestine. A land which now accommodates up to 10 million people and which still has room in it for more people.

            4. Exclusive occupation of the land.

            The Arabs fail on that score too because there always was a Jewish presence on the land even though it was a minority.

            5. History.

            The Arabs have a history in Palestine. But Jews have even a longer history here than the Arabs.

            So you see Andrew? Your assertion about Jewish colonisation is just a fantasy. A fantasy because the Arabs never exclusively owned Palestine. We are willing to share. We are not willing to give up our rights no matter how much you guys jump up and down and how many lies you are willing to peddle. In fact, beware because eventually our patience will run out and we will become strident too. Then, your Arabs will really have something to worry about.

            Ok, I am sure you will now zero in on my last sentence and tug at heart strings. That’s what you people always do. You ignore every reasonable discussion and go for the lowest common denominator because you are haters and liars. You too Andrew.

            PS
            I could argue that Europeans ARE colonisers in America. You too, Andrew because you said you are American. But I won’t do it because history already moved on and the past is the past.

            However, as an American, you might want to answer your own question Andrew? Or do you just want to be a hypocrite?

            Reply to Comment
    7. Hala

      why when Palestinian kills an Israeli you call it a terrorism act but when an Israeli does its defense !!!!!!
      Why dont you just show some of the ”good” intentions -if they exist- to support the peace process…

      Reply to Comment
      • Tzutzik

        Are you trying to be funny?

        You kill us and you call that freedom fighting. We defend ourselves from your murderers and you want us to be on your side?

        And don’t give me this BS about the occupation. Your killing habit of us started nearly 100 years ago. Before any occupation or even before our Irgun even existed.

        Admit it. And stop making excuses. Already in 1948 and even before WE agreed to the two state solution. Your people did not! You wanted us all out of here and you thought you would intimidate us with violence. Well, you did not and now you don’t want to face the consequences of your own actions. Karma is a bitch …

        Reply to Comment
        • Tzutzik

          I just love this thought process …

          “We, the Palis are at war with you Jews, because you stole our country (anyway, this is what we claim even though we can’t justify that claim). So some of us will kill you whenever we feel like it, most of the rest of us cheer the murderers on and consider them as our heroes.

          You Jews have no right to set up road blocks or build walls to protect yourselves because it penalises the rest of us who haven’t been involved in actual killings. You should not raise the level of our anger and frustration, just put up with the regular murder of fellow Israelis so as we won’t point the finger at you and accuse you of collective punishment”

          Bizarre, just bizarre …

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