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Israel hasn't recognized one Sudanese refugee

Worldwide, the refugee recognition rate for Sudanese is nearly 70 percent. Out of the 10,000 in Israel, not one has been granted refugee status.

By Elizbaeth Tsurkov

The State of Israel recognized just over 200 refugees ever since it signed the Refugee Convention in 1954, but none of them are Sudanese nationals. You read it right – Israel hasn’t recognized even one of the survivors of the Darfur genocide or the ethnic cleansing in the Nuba Mountains or Blue Nile regions as refugees. The recognition rate of Sudanese nationals as refugees is one of the highest in the world: 68.2 percent of Sudanese asylum seekers whose claims were examined worldwide in 2012 were granted refugee status worldwide (see table 11). Israel is home to about 10,000 Sudanese asylum seekers. How is that none of them have been recognized as refugees?

A refugee is a person who has a “well-founded fear” that his life or liberty are likely to be endangered if he is deported to his homeland due to persecution based on nationality, race, religion, political views or being a member of another social group persecuted by the regime or society. Refugee status in Israel grants people the right not to be indefinitely jailed in the Holot internment camp, as well as the right to work and access to social and health services. Without this legal status, asylum seekers face the possibility of being ordered to the Holot detention center under the Prevention of Infiltration Law.

African asylum seekers jailed in Holot detention center protest behind the prison's fence, as other asylum seekers take part in a protest outside the facility, in Israel's southern Negev desert, February 17, 2014.

African asylum seekers jailed in Holot detention center protest behind the prison’s fence, as other asylum seekers take part in a protest outside the facility, in Israel’s southern Negev desert, February 17, 2014.

Those asylum seekers who are not summoned to Holot are not eligible for welfare and health services and struggle to find work because their visas state, “this permit is not a work permit,” despite a High Court ruling that forbids the state from fining employers of asylum seekers. At the same time, Israel does not forcibly deport Sudanese citizens to their homeland. In the past, the state proclaimed that the reason for this is a policy of “group protection,” meaning, the state recognizes the dangers deportees would face in their country of origin. Today, on the other hand, the state claims that the deportations are not carried out due to technical reasons alone – because Israel does not maintain diplomatic ties with the Islamist regime in Khartoum.

Read +972′s full coverage of asylum seekers in Israel

Israel has managed to not recognize any Sudanese national as a refugee first of all by preventing them from filing asylum claims until early 2013. At that point, the Interior Ministry succumbed to pressure from the Hotline for Refugees and Migrants and allowed detained Eritrean and Sudanese asylum seekers to file asylum claims. In late 2013 the state began allowing Eritreans and Sudanese outside of detention to file asylum claims too, but did not publicize this policy change anywhere. Despite this, over 1,400 asylum-seekers from Sudan filed asylum claims. Thus far, only a handful of them received a reply – all negative. Most of the asylum claims were filed over a year ago. For asylum seekers currently detained under the anti-infiltration law, some of them for over two years now, the consequence of receiving refugee status would be release from indefinite detention.

The previous amendment to the anti-infiltration law, which was voided by the High Court of Justice (HCJ), stated that asylum seekers who did not receive a response to their asylum claim within nine months of its filing, can be released. According to the new amendment to the law, however, the Interior Ministry is not obligated to examine the asylum claims of the detainees in Holot in a specified time frame. As a result, hundreds of asylum seekers detained in Holot would have been released a long time ago under the previous amendment, which the HCJ found to be too draconian.

One of those asylum seekers, A., arrived in Israel in June 2012 and was jailed without trial in Saharonim prison under the anti-infiltration law that came into effect just days before he crossed the border. A. is from Darfur but worked in a city in the souther Sudanese Blue Nile region, where there is an active rebellion against the regime, which the goverment is repressing with the indiscriminate bombings and ethnic cleansing of civilians. A. joined the rebel group Sudan’s People Liberation Front – North, which aims to depose the Arab Islamist regime in Khartoum and replace it with a government that does not discriminate between its subjects. A. was caught, jailed and accused of collaborating with the rebels and spying for them. A. managed to escape prison and afterward fled the country to Egypt. In Egypt, A. explains, “I did not find protection.” Therefore, he decided to continue to Israel.

Asylum seekers from Darfur take part in the 11th memorial day for the genocide in Darfur, in Levinsky park, South  Tel Aviv, April 30, 2014.

Asylum seekers from Darfur take part in the 11th memorial day for the genocide in Darfur, in Levinsky park, South Tel Aviv, April 30, 2014.

Upon entering Israel, A. demanded that he be given an opportunity to ask for asylum. Only in February 2013 did he manage to file the claim because the Interior Ministry hadn’t provided the necessary forms to prisoners in Saharonim, and the activists from the Hotline who met him were not allowed to bring papers inside. In May 2013, the Interior Ministry interviewed A. regarding his asylum claims. Although over nine months passed since filing his asylum claim, A. was never released. When the HCJ voided the previous amendment to the anti-infiltration law, it gave the state 90 days to examine the individual cases of all detainees under the law and to release them. Instead, the state replaced the previous amendment with a new amendment that created Holot. Thus, instead of being released, A. was transferred to the Holot detention camp, just down the road from Saharonim. Currently, A. is still detained in Holot, with no release date, without ever having been convicted of a crime.

The Interior Ministry is not in a rush. Why examine the asylum claims of survivors of genocide in Darfur, ethnic cleansing in the Nuba Mountains and victims of murderous oppression when the law allows them to ignore those of detainees in Holot and others just trying to survive outside of prison? That is the only way the state can ensure many of them will succumb to its pressure and “agree” to be deported to the homeland from which they fled. After all, if just a few of the Sudanese nationals in Israel were to be recognized as refugees, the rest might develop hope that one day they, too, will enjoy security and a decent life in Israel.

Elizbaeth Tsurkov is an activist at the Hotline for Refugees and Migrants.

Related:
Testimony: Sudanese refugee details torture by Sinai smugglers
Israeli bureaucracy leaves Sudanese vulnerable to arrest
The origins and politics of Israel’s refugee debate

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    COMMENTS

    1. Ben Zakkai

      Articles like this are a punch in the gut. You could just cry. My mother and her family were Holocaust refugees, and I remember hearing from fellows Jews all my life, how evil the gentiles were for not receiving Jewish refugees before WWII. Now Israel locks up African refugees in the desert, doesn’t let them work, has to be pressured for years before grudgingly agreeing to review asylum claims from some of them, and hasn’t approved a single one from 10,000 Sudanese refugees. The goal is clear — to send them back home even if they burn there — and so is the reason: They’re not Jewish, and they’re black. Israel was built on moral claims based on millenia of persecution of Jews on the one hand, and Israel’s standing as a democratic nation committed to human rights and the rule of law; so how can Israel now squander its moral capital in such a heartless, blind and stupid manner? It’s as if the Jewish advocacy of universal morality was just a bluff designed to get the gentiles to treat us better; but the requirements of universal morality don’t actually apply to Israel’s treatment of non-Jews. How sad.

      Reply to Comment
      • Jan

        Israel which often touts its morality is , in actuality, not a country of morals. Were these Sudanese Jews there would be no problem letting them stay and even giving them citizenship. Of course, since they are black, they would be relegated to second class citizenship even though they were Jewish.

        As you, I am reminded how the doors of many countries, including the US, were often closed to Jews fleeing from Naziism. Now Israel is the country closing the doors to others who are fleeing their country.

        What a short memory those in power in Israel have.

        Reply to Comment
        • shachalnur

          These Sudanese refugees are being treated a lot better than Jews of dark complexion that arrived in the fifties in Israel.

          Marrocan Jews had their children’s heads bombarded with up to 25.000 X save levels of radiation in an experiment executed by the Israeli Ministryy of Health,paid for by the US Army.

          Hundreds died of tumors in the head,the rest(tens of thousands) has brain- and genetical damage untill today.

          This is known as the “Ringworm Affair”.

          Yemeni Jews had their hundreds of children taken away from them ,put up for adoption for sterile rich Ashkenazi’s.

          Rabbi Uzi Meshulam,later imprisoned and killed by the Israeli govt,claims 4500 Yemeni children were stolen or shipped to the US and disappeared in nuclear experiments.

          Even recently Ethiopian women were froced into using Depo Proveera avoid them from getting pregnant.

          Depo Proveera is only administered in 3 countries world wide,because the chance of causing permanent infertility is very high.

          This is called Eugenics through social engineering,and non-Jewish newcomers to Israel are at least not being killed,maimed and sterilized,like Spharadi and Mizrahi Jews were after arriving in the State of Jewish Shame.

          Reply to Comment
          • Samuel

            Reality check about the so called ringworm affair. Read the following two articles:

            plancksconstant.org/blog1/2007/03/ringworm_hoax.html

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringworm_affair_(Israel)

            Both debunk Shakhalnur’s paranoid claims.

            Reply to Comment
          • shachalnur

            “Back in the 50’s radiation from x-ray machines was considered harmless”.

            You thoroughly debunked my claims,I’m convinced and thank you for the link to this wonderfull site.

            Must be like porn for hating limp biscuits like you.

            Now go talk to a Sparadi Jew in Israel,and see what he/she has to say about your Zionist Eugenics murder-denial.

            Reply to Comment
          • shachalnur

            Shall I translate”Wir haben es nicht gewusst” into Hebrew for you.

            Reply to Comment
          • Samuel

            Which bit of standard treatment at the time don’t you understand Shakhalnur? And not just for Morocan children but children all over the world, including East European Ashkenazi Jewish children.

            By the way, have you heard of the Thalidimide children? Go read up on that.

            Reply to Comment
          • shachalnur

            Always a pleasure to listen to your lectures,Dr.Mengele.

            Whitewashing Rockefeller-organized Eugenics by 1897 Zionist Jews is exactly what Judaism needs today.

            Reply to Comment
          • Samuel

            “Always a pleasure to listen to your lectures,Dr.Mengele.”

            You are one sick dude, Shackalnur. When you run out of reason and you are cornered, you resort to insults.

            Never mind, it won’t work. Keep on ranting and I will keep on helping you to remove your mask and expose your hateful self.

            Reply to Comment
          • shachalnur

            Psychoanalysis was never your cup of tea,Dr.Mengele.

            The defense of Eugenics is.

            You need to read up on current Hasbara qualifications of anti-Semitism and other non-conformity issues:

            Arutz Sheva yesterday,”Jewish anti-Semitism,Self-Hatred and Adopted Persecution” by Daniel Greenfield.

            Further good news for you;

            DSM(Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders for psychiatrists) has listed creativity and non-conformity a new mental illness.

            ODD(Oppositional Defiant Disorder)= ongoing pattern of disobedient,hostile and defiant behaviour.

            Luckily these aren’t qualities that would keep you awake at night ,Dr.Mengele.

            No Eugenics defenders have ever been caught showing any emotions besides the usual Sycophantic,Sociopathic and Psychophatic behaviour you’re demonstrating in every comment you post.

            Reply to Comment
          • Samuel

            Blah blah blah blah.

            Lets look again at your paranoid allegations:

            1. In the 1950s the standard cure for ringworm was the use of X-Rays.

            2. The same cure was used not just for Sephardi immigrants but for East European Ashkenazim too.

            3. Ringworm is a contagious disease.

            4. Ringworm was more prevalent in non sanitary conditions which existed in the primitive conditions that Jewish refugees were forced to endure in the transit camps.

            5. When ringworm was discovered amongst some refugees, the assumption was that others also contracted the disease.

            6. The accepted regime in that scenario was to treat all the refugees for the possibility of ringworm.

            In hindsight, it is evident that what they did was inappropriate. But at the time, what they did was the norm everywhere. Not just in Israel.

            As far as the exaggerated accusations of administering 25.000X the safe dosage of X-Rays. Those accusations don’t stand up to close scrutiny. Here is the link again which explains why:

            http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/2007/03/ringworm_hoax.html

            Those are facts Shacalnur. You can shoot me the messenger for telling you the cold hard sober facts and debunking your hystrionics. But that won’t change the historic facts.

            Have you read the case of the Thalidomide babies? That case was at least as horrific but we only know this from later data. At the time, the medical profession was convinced that they were doing the right thing.

            Now back to your rant Shacalnur. I fully expect you to continue to rant. Oh well ……..

            Reply to Comment
          • Samuel

            Here are just a few links which verify X-Ray was at one time the standard treatment for ringworm:

            http://jama.jamanetwork.com/Mobile/article.aspx?articleid=446891

            http://anatomyringworm.weebly.com/history.html

            http://astro2012.abstractsnet.com/handouts/011001_Radiation_Epilation_for_Tinea_Capitis-_A_Historical_Review_poster_final.pdf

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/13678280/

            http://elofaxelcarlson.blogspot.com.au/2014/03/x-ray-treatment-for-ringworm-in-1927.html?m=1

            There are many more sites on the net which say much the same. But by all means, feel free to whine and claim that the Sephardi Jews were the only victims of scientific ignorance at the time.

            Reply to Comment
          • shachalnur

            Wiki and plancksconstant.

            If that’s your version of reality,you’ll be slaughtered by your idols.

            But I’m happy you’re reading up on some stuff,eventhough you don’t have the beitziem to look further.

            Can wiki and your constantpornsite help out with the Yemeni Babies,Depo Proveera,Fluoride in tapwater,OPV,36 vaccinations for children before 2years old,etc. etc.

            Eugenics,mass murder and brainwashing happens all over the planet(Did you enjoy Conchita Wurst,the Rising Phoenix?).

            I’m forcing you to face the questions:

            Why does it happen in Israel?
            Who is doing this?
            And why does the Israeli government cooperate and collaborate?

            The same questions are met with anger by anti-Semites as well,because it undermines their belief of Jews running the planet.

            I told you to go talk to survivors of the Ringworm affair,or watch Israeli documentairies.

            You figure it out.

            I’ll keep giving very uncomfortable information for those who want to look into it,like you.

            But having a serious discussion with you and your friends is useless,because the you don’t understand the subject,and your limited sources are controlled by the perpetrators.

            Or are you just worried too many people will look into my claims,and does it pay well?

            Same for you, Gargamel.

            Reply to Comment
          • Samuel

            Oh my, one garbage at a time Shachalnur. You spew so much garbage and hate that I can’t handle it all at the same time.

            Moving on to Flouride in the water. Opinion on this has been divided worldwide.

            I just came back from Australia. Guess what, they have Flouride in their water. Are the Aussies practitioners of Eugenics too?

            Reply to Comment
          • Samuel

            The Yemenite children affair is about the only one that is controversial. Yes, I have been aware of this claim for a number of years. I haven’t fully made up my mind about it yet.

            Undoubtedly there are a lot of angry and unhappy relatives who are not satisfied about the alleged deaths/disappearance of their children.

            The proof that would convince me that indeed thousands of children were stolen and given up for adoption would need thousands, or even hundreds of yemeni adults of the right age group stepping forward and prove that they were raised by Ashkenazi parents. DNA tests could then possibly be matched to living Yemeni relatives who were told that their child died in hospital.

            To date, I know of only one such case. And as shocking as that is, that can have other explanations rather than a sinister conspiracy theory.

            Anyway, I have an open mind. But I won’t accept allegations without solid proof. Particularly if the allegations come from obvious haters of Israel like Shakhalnur.

            Reply to Comment
          • shachalnur

            Fluoride is the basic ingredient in both Prozac(Fluoxetene Hydrochloride)and Sarin nerve gas(Isopropyl-Methyl-Phosphoryle-Fluoride).

            Sodium Fluoride,a hazardous-waste by-product from the manufacture of Aluminum,is a common ingredient in rat and cockroach poisons,anesthetics,psychiatric drugs,and military nerve gas.

            In your head,in your soup.

            Dumbs you down,no ODD around.

            Reply to Comment
          • Samuel

            The Aussies that I know are not dumb.

            In fact, Shachalnur, you sound to me to be a lot dumber than they are.

            Reply to Comment
          • GilGamesh

            face it you lost.

            Reply to Comment
          • Julia

            My boyfriend is an Israeli Yemeni Jew, he has no such claims against Israel, and nor his family or any other mizrahi-Jewish family that I know of have stories about head irradiation when they came to Israel. Yes, there are some problems with racism, but much less than in America or even Europe.

            Reply to Comment
          • BaladiAkka 1948

            I start wondering if you’re a troll. No matter what the topic is, you find a way to mention the Ringworm Affair.
            This is not the issue here.

            Reply to Comment
          • shachalnur

            It’s my stalkers that keep on going on about that specific crime.

            The other crimes I mention ,they don’t touch,and you didn’t read,and you missed the connection to the article.

            Still,nasty issues and no answers to the question why Israel would do this to their own population, including refugees.

            Reply to Comment
          • Samuel

            He definitely is a troll, Balad. You hit the nail right on the head. Even you who is hardly a fan of Israel recognize him for what he is. He keeps on coming up with his unproven allegations and wide flights of fancy. No one provokes him. He just delights in inflaming passions and causing offence. He is a sicko.

            He does not back up a single one of his myriad of assertions with any links to any reliable sites. Yet no matter what references a number of us offer via links he just arrogantly dismisses all of them.

            He asks why Israel would do such things to it’s own people for whom israel went to a lot of trouble to bring in. And all he can come up with is dropping nasty innuendos and smears. Not a single link to back those up. Classic Goebbels like propaganda tactics. Throw enough dirt and his ilk hope that some of it will stick. He and his kind are all over the internet. However there is not a shred of rhyme, reason, proof or intelligence to their claims. It would not make sense for Israel to do the things that they claim. That’s not to say that things ought not to be looked at or talked about. But it needs to be done with reason and intelligence. It is not only possible but probable that some things went wrong in those early hectic years when Israel was absorbing hundreds of thousands of refugees at the same time as building a country and fighting a war. But that is a long way from the nasty accusations which Shakalnur levels with such abandon.

            Reply to Comment
          • shachalnur

            Depo Proveera for Ethiopean women is during the last 5 years.

            700 Israeli soldiers maimed in unnecessary US sponsored vaccine experiment was during the last 5 years(High Court judged in favor of the victims)

            OPV was last year.

            Fluoride was permitted in Israel 1974,mandatory since 1998,and this year the High Court decided that from summer 2014 NO community in Israel will be PERMITTED to fluoridate water.

            To make Israeli children the most vaccinated children in the world,that’s since 8 years.

            This has been going on for 66 years,and won’t stop untill you wake up.

            Dream on.

            Reply to Comment
          • Samuel

            Yes! Vaccinations, birth control, Flouride in the water there must be something sinister behind all those activities.

            Flouride I already answered. Vaccinations, I won’t even bother. Birth control? The method used? Maybe. But is it a state conspiracy? I highly doubt it. In any case, I am one of those pesky people who insists on proof before I throw about accusations about world wide conspiracies. There are plenty of other possibilities I consider before making stupid allegations about sinister bankers with tentacles ranging from New York, London, Israel, Australia and heaven knows where else.

            But I must admit, it would be nice to be all knowing all seeing and ten steps ahead of such amazing conspirators who manage to fool everyone except the Shachalnurs of this world. Alternatively, maybe, just maybe they (the Shachalnur types) are just paranoid personalities full of hate who like to throw dirt from behind anonymous personas on the Internet.

            Reply to Comment
          • shachalnur

            If I would agree with you,we would both be wrong.

            It’s not your fault,you’ve been preconditioned to swallow everything ,as long as you feel you are usefull.

            These facts have been known for decades,and the more you get used to your slavery ,the more you will defend your murderers,and close your eyes to reality.

            Check suicide rates,infertility rates,SSRI use,Estrogen levels,cancer in children,psychologists per capta,lawyers per capita,children without fathers,etc. in Israel.

            You’ll see Israel is near ,or at,the top of the the list,in these categories.

            And it’s by design.

            Israel is just a weapon and a tool for these people.

            You’ll find out soon enough,I’ll let you know when they’ll make the next move,so you can’t say you “Ich habe es nicht gewusst”.

            Reply to Comment
          • shachalnur

            oh,I forgot BPA levels in Israeli’s,main contributor to Gay Pride ,cancer-and infertility clinics.

            Enjoy your “shoko be sakit”.

            Fluoride,Aspartame, MSG and stress will do the rest.

            Reply to Comment
          • Smuel

            “700 Israeli soldiers maimed in unnecessary US sponsored vaccine experiment was during the last 5 years(High Court judged in favor of the victims)”

            Bingo!!!!!!

            How does this fit in with the idea that the state of Israel does the bidding of sinister foreign bankers who control Israel?

            Sounds to me more like democracy at work. The independent judiciary judging without fear or favor, as they should. No sign of bankers controlling the judiciary of Israel. How does that fit in with your crazy allegations, Shachalnur????!!!! Hmmmmm????????????

            Reply to Comment
          • BaladiAkka 1948

            @ Shachalnur
            As far as I’m concerned, it’s simply a matter of respect. This article is about the human suffering of African refugees, and I think you’re being disrespectful to Elizabeth Tsurkov as well as to the people concerned.
            If you don’t care, you’re not obliged to comment. It goes for the hasbara crowd as well, of course….

            Reply to Comment
          • shachalnur

            BaladiAkka,

            If this is meant as constructive criticism,I’ll accept it.

            The way Israel is able to treat Africans, I witnessed from very close by.

            My cellmate in Ramle,a healthy,mentally balanced man, was reduced to a Clonex-dependent wreck,because he overstayed his visa,spending all his money on some nice Jewish lawyer promising working permits to illegal immigrants.

            He actually helped the Israeli Bar Ass. to arrest and persecute this man,by producing proof of his activities,and putting his own life in danger doing so,as only witness.

            He was promised ,by the Bar, a ticket back to X(country in Africa),where his wife and children live.

            He will be kicked out,after he stays imprisoned for a year ,because of overstaying his visa for 2 weeks.

            I was his translator,nobody spoke English,had a chance to speak to Head of Bar by phone,reminded him of his promise.

            He just laughed.

            1897 Zionism is like this,to refugees,Palestinians and even Jews.

            I’m just reminding you,Israel has been abusing immigrants for 66 years.

            If you wish to call me disrespectful for that,that’s your right.

            I think you should use this qualification only ,when you’re very sure who you’re accusing.

            Reply to Comment
      • Solomon Reiss

        One can not be a Holocaust refugee, only a refugee, because a Holocust is an end result with no survivors.

        Reply to Comment
    2. Anwar suliman

      Thank you very much for the valuable information that originates from humanity sincere love of humanity need to respect the laws of the state of international refugee law and in particular the reference to the laws that put the refugees in prison for unspecified time

      Reply to Comment
    3. Anwar suliman

      Thank you very much for the valuable information that originates from humanity sincere love of humanity need to respect the laws of the state of international refugee law and in particular the reference to the laws that put the refugees in prison for unspecified time

      Reply to Comment
      • Stay strong, Anwar. God willing the law will change and you and all the other innocent refugees will be released from Holot.

        Reply to Comment
    4. Rab

      Spain which often touts its morality is, in actuality, not a country of morals.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melilla_border_fence

      The USA which often touts its morality is, in actuality, not a country of morals.

      http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/latinos-deported-report-article-1.1782202

      France which often touts its morality is, in actuality, not a country of morals.

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2084790/France-reveals-deported-33-000-people-just-12-months.html

      People who often tout their morality by holding Israel to standards that exist nowhere else are bigots. By the way, unlike Israel with its tiny landmass and population, Spain, the US and France are large countries with huge landmass. Also, I stopped with those three countries but could have continued with many more, never mind the fact that we aren’t even looking at countries outside the Western world.

      Reply to Comment
      • haifawi

        building a fence to keep people out is not the same as imprisoning and sending refugee seekers on an endless bureaucratic nightmare.

        deporting migrant workers is not the same as deporting refugee seekers to enemy countries.

        70% of sudanese are recognized as refugees (yes, even in spain, france, and the US). did all the non-refugees just happen to go to israel? it is, after all, a ‘country for the white man,’ and a country for the exclusive political domination of the jews.

        Reply to Comment
        • Rab

          It doesn’t matter whether you quibble or not over the facts. The three countries I listed are not at war with neighbors, do not face the same challenges as Israel, are far more established historically than Israel without anybody challenging their existence, have far more land than Israel, have much larger populations that would absorb the numbers of people we are discussing without being affected at all, are not surrounded by countries that are hostile (and populated almost exclusively) with co-religionists of the people about whom we are speaking. And yet, those three (and I could have made the list much longer) countries take active steps, quite similar to Israel’s, to inhibit the possible arrival of people who come into their countries through illegal channels.

          Reply to Comment
    5. Samuel

      “a country for the exclusive political domination of the jews.”

      What is wrong with one country in the world being a Jewish majority state?

      Show me the fundamental law of nature which dictates that Jews must be a minority wherever Jews live?

      Reply to Comment
      • haifawi

        i’m not against jews being a majority in some place. i’m against the methods necessary to secure a majority of a small minority of the world, with a large diaspora, in a heterogenous part of the world.
        in the same way that a kurdish state that expelled alawite/turkish/arab/druze from its newly founded borders and passed laws to ensure a kurdish majority would be unacceptable. in the same way that the behavior of the various balkan states in the 1990s was deemed unacceptable and the return of refugees was implemented there.
        if jews wanted to build an island or move to antarctica and set up a state in a place where nobody lived, then this would be ok. but you can’t go to a place where people are already living and say ‘oh btw, this is mine and i’m not sharing it with you’

        Reply to Comment
      • haifawi

        but the fundamental law of nature why jews are always destined to be a minority is that we don’t prosletyze. when you make up 0.2% of the global population, you’ll probably be a minority everywhere. the druze seem to manage just fine. the idea that every ideological group gets a sovereign territory is quite laughable. yeah, there are a bunch of jews here now and the way forward needs to accept this reality but there is no a priori requirement that the jews are a majority somewhere.

        Reply to Comment
        • Samuel

          “the idea that every ideological group gets a sovereign territory is quite laughable.”

          It is only laughable by those whose family was not marched to the Gas chambers for being Jewish barely three generations ago. For those of us who lost great grand parents, great aunts and great uncles, not so much.

          Reply to Comment
          • Samuel

            I’ll tell you what is laughable Haifawi:

            The idea that we Jews alone haven’t got the right to re-establish our state in our ancestral homeland side by side with the descendants of those who invaded it and took over it.

            Not that I hold the invasion of the Arabs in the 7th century against them. After all that was a long time ago. Nor were they the only people who invaded many lands and took it over by the sword. The history of mankind is full of invasions. Think of North and South America, NewZealand, Australia. Even the Japanese were invaders who took the lands that they now inhabit from the native population. I could go on and on about it throughout history. Did I mention the Vikings?

            So, you see, dear friend? What is laughable is the claim that we Jews alone have no right to return to lands that once were ours just because it is now too late, that idea is laughable. Particularly since we were willing to share the land.

            PS
            Yes I know how this land became ours. We too were invaders once and yes at that time, 5000 or so years ago we too displaced the natives. So you see we are no different than the rest of humanity. We too need a state of our own and we will keep it, I don’t care whether we will keep it nicely or by being ugly. I would prefer the former but if all else fails, I prefer us to be as ugly as everyone else. Politeness and meekness only got us the gas chambers …

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    6. anwarsuliman

      Reasons why Israel has not given the Sudanese and good posture first reason religion State wary of the number of Muslims at the expense of the Jews and the second reason is the lack of clear ties between Israel and Sudan, and why the latter fear the state of the spread of Arab culture and this affects a significant impact on the population status..

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