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I don't need a law to remind me of my inequality

I do not need the Jewish Nation-State Law to remind me that I am not equal to my Jewish friends. And yet, I was born here, I grew up here, this is my homeland. I have no intention of going anywhere.

By Yasmeen Abu Fraiha

Palestinian women cross the Qalandiya checkpoint outside Ramallah, West Bank, into Jerusalem to attend the first Friday of Ramadan prayers in the Al-Aqsa Mosque, July 12, 2013. (photo: Activestills.org)

Palestinian women cross the Qalandiya checkpoint outside Ramallah, West Bank, into Jerusalem to attend the first Friday of Ramadan prayers in the Al-Aqsa Mosque, July 12, 2013. (photo: Activestills.org)

Write it down, I am an Arab woman
Born to this land
I am Palestinian
My parents are Palestinian
And my ancestors are Palestinian

My mother and her family were expelled from their home in 1967, when she was only eight, so that the army could use it as a military outpost. My grandmother was beaten by IDF soldiers when she returned one night to ask for blankets to protect her seven children, who were forced to sleep outside, from the cold. My father grew up in dire poverty, with no access to water or electricity, while new, affluent Jewish towns were sprouting up around him on his ancestors’ land. This history is part of me, and no law will change that.

I do not need the Jewish Nation-State Law to remind me that I am not equal to my Jewish friends. I am reminded of this on every drive to Ben Gurion Airport, during which I undergo rigorous security checks because of my last name. I am reminded of it by every landlord who hears my father’s accent and suddenly decides that the apartment is no longer relevant. Every time my brother tells me that he was asked to show his ID at the entrance to his university campus, even though his friends are never asked to do the same. I am reminded every time I am asked “You’re Arab? Wow, you don’t look Arab! No worries, we are all human,” and every time I receive stares when I speak in Arabic.

I do not need the Jewish Nation-State Law to remind me that Arabic is not the official language of the State of Israel. I am reminded every time I see poor translations published by government ministries and authorities. Every time I enter a bookstore and cannot find books in Arabic. I am reminded of it every time I discover that yet another important medical document was not translated into Arabic, or when there are no Arabic subtitles on television.

Palestinian citizens take part in a general strike in solidarity with Palestinians in Jerusalem, West Bank and Gaza, in the northern town of Sakhnin, on October 13, 2015. (photo: Omar Sameer)

Palestinian citizens take part in a general strike in solidarity with Palestinians in Jerusalem, West Bank and Gaza, in the northern town of Sakhnin, on October 13, 2015. (photo: Omar Sameer)

Racism and inequality is not a political issue, it is personal. When my mother cannot be buried in the place she lived most of her life, it is personal. When Israelis protest and threaten an Arab who bought a home in an all-Jewish city, forcing him to give up, it is personal. When a poet is convicted in court for writing poetry about oppression and discrimination, it is personal. When the authorities try to whitewash the killing of an educator who was shot dead during his own eviction, it is personal. When wine is deemed sullied because it was touched by the wrong person, it is personal. When one is told they are not good enough to be a parent, it is personal. Racism means using the identity someone was born with against her. It means telling him that he is inferior because of how he was born. It is as personal as it gets.

The right to national self-determination is a personal and collective right. I do not ask anyone for permission to choose my own identity, or which groups I choose to belong to. Write it down — I was born here, I grew up here, this is my country and my homeland. I have no intention of going anywhere, and my children, too, will be raised here. I will speak whichever language I choose, and I will live wherever I want. If this gets me thrown in jail, so be it. I will not go quietly.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu seen in the Knesset plenum ahead of the vote on the Jewish Nation-State Law, July 18, 2018. (Hadas Parush/Flash90)

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu seen in the Knesset plenum ahead of the vote on the Jewish Nation-State Law, July 18, 2018. (Hadas Parush/Flash90)

The Jewish Nation-State Law, and all of the government’s recent activities these past few weeks, are worse for Jews than for Arabs. The legitimacy it grants Israel’s discriminatory policies places Israel alongside other dark regimes. No longer can it claim to be “the only democracy in the Middle East.” Israel has placed itself squarely on the axis of evil and has chosen the wrong side of history.

And yet, I have always been optimistic. My parents, despite what they have gone through, always believed in a shared life. History proves that the good guys win out, and that the oppressed do not stay oppressed forever. This is true of the apartheid regime in South Africa, of slavery in the United States, of the French Revolution, and even the Jewish people after the Second World War. I am encouraged from the knowledge that lies and injustices are not sustainable for long. Perhaps this really is the time to go to the polls in droves, as our prime minister said. Maybe it is time to build an “alliance of the oppressed” with other groups that face discrimination. It is time to wake up and shake this evil sickness from the ground up.

So that those up top will know — beware of our hunger, beware of our rage.

Dr. Yasmeen Abu Fraiha is a doctor specializing in internal medicine and a social activist. This article was first published in Hebrew on Local Call. Read it here.

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    COMMENTS

    1. Lauren

      This land belongs to all of us who found our way here. We’re sisters and brothers here, even if our leaders culture hate. Thanks for these heartfelt words.

      Reply to Comment
    2. Ben

      A great, beautifully-articulated statement. Among the +972 classics. Thank you.

      Reply to Comment
    3. Gail Agasi

      Please tell us the history of Arab Palestine, before 1948. Who were their Presidents? What type of government did Arab Palestine have? Did men and women vote? What was the name of their currency? Which countries were their trading partners? Which products did Arab Palestine import and export? Pick any year, any month, any date, and tell us what the currency exchange rate was, of the Arab Palestinian currency and United States dollar. Jerusalem was occupied by Jordan, from 1948 to 1967. Why didn’t the Arab Palestinians,complain to the United Nations? The Arabic alphabet, does not have a letter with a “p” sound. Why would a people use a name name, that they cannot read or write in their own language? It was the Hadrian, an Ancient Roman Emperor, who named the rebellious Jew, Syria Palestina. It was Arafat, who named the Arabs in Israel, Palestinians. Read about Samuel Clemens’ (Mark Twain) experience when he visited Palestine in the late 1800’s. No, he was not a Jew. There were other non Jews, who also wrote about visitors who wrote about Palestine. It was an arid, empty land. Arabs in Israel, are in the Israeli Knesset (Parlament). They also work as lawyers, doctors, engineers, architects, dentists, professors, nurses, house painters, store owners, gardners, , taxi drivers, contractors, laboratory technicians and much more. There many Arab towns and villages. They have moderate houses and large mansions. I agree that not everything is perfect, but the Arabs in Israel, have better lives, than most of the Arabs in Arab countries. It is especially so, for Arab women.

      Reply to Comment
      • Ben

        @Gail Agasi: This is a collection of hoary cliches. Dumbed down to Jerusalem Post talkback level. Reducing the history of the people to a simplistic “right of kings” theory of history and identity. The hoary old “letter P” gambit is especially condescending and insulting. You also forget that the Americans, before they exercised their own right of self-determination, did not call themselves The United States of America, did not call themselves American, and had no kings, no currency, no blah blah blah…. Ditto for any number of European countries before they became “Italy” or “Germany” or whatever.
        You also didn’t read the author:

        “The right to national self-determination is a personal and collective right. I do not ask anyone for permission to choose my own identity, or which groups I choose to belong to. Write it down — I was born here, I grew up here, this is my country and my homeland. I have no intention of going anywhere, and my children, too, will be raised here.”

        Reply to Comment
        • Ido

          Your argument is simply wrong and ignores actual reality and what the Palestinians say.
          The Palestinians claim, as in actually say very, very clearly, that a Palestinian nation and people existed for centuries if not millennia, that a Palestinian nation and country actually existed, that they were a distinct people/nation.
          They never say any other name besides “Palestine” which was actually the name of the geographic region, never a nation or country. All of this is historic fabrication of course and one anyone with basic knowledge of Middle-Eastern history can debunk.

          “The hoary old “letter P” gambit is especially condescending and insulting” – This is very, very simple: the Palestinians claim to be a country and nation that existed in history, they claim their name was ‘Palestine’. In reality they can’t even pronounce their invented nation’s name properly, showing very clearly that it’s not and never was their nation’s name.
          “Americans, before they exercised their own right of self-determination, did not call themselves The United States of America” – laughable comparison. The Palestinians claim to be an ancient nation with their own country, they claim they are the indigenous people of what is now Israel, and lived there since time immemorial. This is the fabricated Palestinian narrative, which of course also deny the Jewish nation’s historic connection to the region. Comparing it to the USA and America is idiotic.

          I’m not talking about the right to national self determination, the relatively newly created Palestinian nationality has every right to self determination like anyone else. This does not retroactively validate their fabricated narrative.

          Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            This sounds simply confused. As best one can tell, Agasi is arguing, or insinuating—I am not sure it rises to the level of an argument—that if the Palestinians can’t point to a specifically “Palestinian” or “Falastinian” king or president or currency at points in the past, or, even more absurdly, if they can’t say “P” as in “Peter,” then they have no right of self-determination and have no genuine identity. I refuted that (it wasn’t hard). You would do better to address Agasi than me. I thought you were for the right of self-determination? Yeah?

            Your insinuation too seems to be that I argued that the Palestinian right of self-determination “validates” any or all past historical claims some Palestinians might make. I did not argue that. You seem to be battling argumentational phantoms.

            More to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            The current Israeli Jewish persons of Israel and the settlers of the West Bank have not lived in Israel and the West Bank “since time immemorial” either. They came from all sorts of places. And the current Palestinians of the West Bank are far more indigenous, if we mean by this years of continuous inhabiting of the land by families, than the settlers. So what is your point? Other than to make simplistic, poorly thought out statements? (“Your argument is simply…this is very very simple… fabricated… very clearly…’the Palestinians’…’they’….”)

            Out of one side of your mouth you swear you are for self-determination and out of the other side you sneer about how they pronounce “Palestinian”? Do you sneer at Spaniards who pronounce ciudad (“city”) “thee-oo-DAHD” or Madrilenos who pronounce Madrid “Madreeth”? For someone who claims to be all for a West Bank pullout and a Palestinian state you sure spend a lot of time trying to delegitimize the very thing you claim you want. Why is that?
            More to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            For argument’s sake, let’s suppose that some Palestinians overdraw their argument and make overly-sweeping or imprecise, defiant claims on some ancient historical issues. Under the pressure of the West Bank invasion (occupation). So what? I mean, Jews *never* do that, do they? Bibi and the settlers are scrupulous, accurate historians and never, ever make simplistic, overly-pat, generalizing statements about “Israel, the nation state of the Jewish people,” do they? They never make overly sweeping claims to “The Land,” and “our history,” do they? Do you see how gratuitously villainizing and delegitimizing and one-sided and over-generalizing you are about “them,” with what arrogant presumptiveness you insinuate that “we” are the lily white, innocent, clean, scrupulously accurate, never exaggerating, never propagandizing other side?

            More to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            And finally, the same advice I gave Agasi applies here. Listen to what the author is actually saying. Because the foregoing by you and Agasi was all meant to distract from that, so let’s get back to it:

            “The right to national self-determination is a personal and collective right. I do not ask anyone for permission to choose my own identity, or which groups I choose to belong to. Write it down — I was born here, I grew up here, this is my country and my homeland. I have no intention of going anywhere, and my children, too, will be raised here.”

            Now, what problem do you have with that?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “Listen to what the author is actually saying” – Again: I was responding to your post. Nothing else. Do you understand ?
            “you and Agasi was all meant to distract from that,” – nope, it wasn’t. What I posted was very, very specific. I have no idea why you think lying about this makes any sense The post is right there.
            “I do not ask anyone for permission to choose my own identity” – Again, 4th time: I have no issues with Palestinians self determination. I believe I made that very, very clear.
            “Now, what problem do you have with that?” – I do have a problem when this self determination also included the elimination of my country and the killing of my people, which is what the current Palestinian leadership is going for.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “For argument’s sake” – seriously ? for argument’s sake ? are you that detached from reality that you are not aware what they actually say ? I believe the last hilarious lie, made by the Palestinian President himself, was that the Palestinians are the original Canaanites. Are you not aware of this ?
            “So what?” – of course. since whenever truth, facts and reality mattered to you, right ?
            “I mean, Jews *never* do” – That’s some impressive dodge attempt from what is actually being discussed, the lie known as the Palestinian narrative.
            By all means, if you want to discuss Bibi and Settlers history related claims, go ahead. Be specific. Never mind that it wasn’t related to what I was saying. Your lame attempt to justify the lies and fabrication of history by the Palestinians is amusing. Do you, like the Palestinians, deny as a result the existence of the Jewish nationality and the historic connection of the Jewish nation to the geographic region known as Palestine ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “The current Israeli Jewish persons of Israel and the settlers of the West Bank have not lived in Israel and the West Bank “since time immemorial” either” – Wrong. Jews kept a presence in the geographic region called “Palestine” throughout history.
            After all it is their ancestral homeland. I’m assuming you made a mistake when you said “current” since Jews are not immortal.
            “And the current Palestinians of the West Bank are far more indigenous” – There were Jewish towns with populations preceding the Arab conquests and since you can easily trace most of the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians back to their tribal origin in the Arab world they are mostly not indigenous in comparison.
            Historical records show that it was 19th and 20th century Jewish settlement and the resulting employment opportunities that drew successive waves of Arab immigrants to Palestine.
            “So what is your point?” – My point was very clear: your argument was wrong. Your comparison was wrong. That’s it.
            “Other than to make simplistic, poorly thought out statements?” – which fact was wrong ? be specific. The Palestinian narrative is based on easily to prove fabrication of history. They were never a nation or a country the way they describe it. These are historic facts.
            “Out of one side of your mouth you swear you are for self-determination” – um, yes. I made that clear quite a few times. You lied about this and me quite a few times in the past as I recall. I can post some proof if you like.
            “you sneer about how they pronounce “Palestinian” – Again: I simply stated a fact = there was never a Palestinian nation or a Palestinian country in recorded history. Their inability to pronounce their own name, which was never theirs, is just another evidence. This has nothing, I repeat: nothing to do with their self determination today. I said exactly that and you twist what I said. Amazing.
            “Do you sneer at Spaniards who pronounce ciudad” = again with your false unrelated comparisons. Look, this is very, very simple: The Palestinians claim to be an ancient nation and country. One would think they should pronounce their own name correctly. That’s it. Is this hard for you to understand ?
            “Madrilenos who pronounce Madrid “Madreeth”?” = Jeeesus Christ man. And I’m not even Christian or remotely religious. How do Spanish people pronounce their own nation’s name ? does their own dialect prevent them from pronouncing it correctly ? how can you not grasp why your comparisons are laughably incorrect ?
            “For someone who claims to be all for a West Bank pullout and a Palestinian state you sure spend a lot of time trying to delegitimize the very thing you claim you want” – why are you lying again ? Third time: pointing out that the Palestinian narrative is based on fabrication of history and obvious lies has nothing, I repeat, nothing to do with their self determination.
            I didn’t delegitimize a West Bank pullout or the notion of the Palestinian state, this is you lying again. I was very, very clear.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            No, what she is saying, which is what I said, is that the Palestinian narrative is based on a fabrication of history. That’s it. A Palestinian country or nation, the way the Palestinians lie about, never existed.
            “more absurdly, if they can’t say “P” as in “Peter,” then they have no right of self-determination” – nope, she never mentioned right of self determination, this is you lying. She pointed out by providing examples how a Palestinian nation/country never existed.
            One of such examples is the fact that he Palestinians can’t pronounce correctly the name of their own nation’s name. Clearly showing that it was never their nation or country’s name. Well since no such nation or country ever existed it’s obvious but still.
            “and have no genuine identity” – historically, until the early 60’s, they never were a nation and a Palestinian country didn’t exist in history. They do now of course. This is actually the first time in recorded history where the Palestinians have self rule over their nation thanks to the Oslo Accords.
            “I refuted that”- no you didn’t, as I pointed out. You were wrong.
            “You would do better to address Agasi than me” – why ? I’m addressing you and your false comparison and your lack of understanding of what is being discussed and your ignorance of basic history.
            “thought you were for the right of self-determination” – I am. If Arab tribes want to declare themselves as a nation, more power to them.
            “Your insinuation too seems to be” – nope, you’re wrong. Again. I said very, very clearly: the relatively newly created Palestinian nationality has every right to self determination like anyone else. However this does not retroactively validate their fabricated narrative.
            “I did not argue that” – I never said you did. I simply pointed out how your response to what was posted was incorrect and ignored what the Palestinians say themselves, very, very clearly. I thought I made that obvious.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            None of this is minimally persuasive. I did not “dodge” anything–I pointed out that you make a big pile of off-the-point hay out of what you take to be inaccuracies in the Palestinians narrative, simplistically smear everything as a “fabrication,” and yet all the imprecisions and fabrications of the Israeli Jewish narrative are apparently accorded no equal weight and relevancy. And no I meant current, alive people, living human beings, persons, protected (but not actually protected) persons under occupation, and their ancestors going back hundreds of years. That was the point. The Oslo Accords have been manipulated by Israel to be a means denying the Palestinians self rule and sustaining the occupation indefinitely. (Read Sheizaf.) I know you’ll disagree and I don’t care. I repeat my out of both sides of your mouth charge against you. Finally, your ridiculous framing of this ridiculous “P” sound issue as “pronouncing it correctly” says all we need to know about the depth and rigor of your thinking. As if there is a universally “correct” and “incorrect” way of saying “Palestinian” or “Falestinian” or whatever, and that this amounts to some judgment on self-determination (never precisely stated but constantly insinuated). Nothing could better display your racism, your chauvinism, your supremacism, your simple-mindedness, your insinuating style, your incorrigible condescension and patronizing. Bye bye.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Aha, you find proving again how you were wrong and how you have no idea about what you’re talking about “not minimally persuasive”. What a shock.
            “I did not “dodge” anything” – you mean besides trying to minimize the importance of the lying fabricated Palestinian narrative and bringing in Bibi and settlers ? what dodge, right ? hilarious.
            “what you take to be inaccuracies” – nope. You’re lying again. Not what I take as lies and fabrications, what reality, facts and history does. Very, very specifically so. If you have any evidence refuting what I posted by all means, go ahead.
            “simplistically smear everything as a “fabrication,”” – so you’re saying lying about basic historic facts and making up nonsense with no relation to reality is “simplistically smearing” ? fascinating. Tell me, are you going to actually address what I posted or again deflect and lie some more ?
            By all means: which of the facts I stated is “simplistically smearing”.
            ” all the imprecisions and fabrications of the Israeli Jewish narrative” – Again: be specific. Go ahead. What are you referring to ? never mind that it wasn’t the topic at hand, do go ahead.
            “and no I meant current, alive people, living human beings” – the current alive people are not the Jews who kept a presence in the geographic region known as Palestine throughout the centuries because they are not immortal.
            Fact: the Jewish people, members of the Jewish nation, lived in what is now Israel throughout history, judging by your response you seem to be unaware of this fact.
            “The Oslo Accords have been manipulated by Israel to be a means denying the Palestinians self rule” – exactly the opposite. How can you be wrong about something this obvious ? it was the first time in history that the newly invented Palestinian nationality had self rule and it was meant to be part of a process, a process the Palestinians never meant to keep, they openly said it, their own President at the time (Arafat) admitted it, are you not aware of this fact ? would you like to see proof of it ? I’m sure I provided it to you at one time and I’m sure you ignored it.
            “and sustaining the occupation indefinitely” – oh yes, all those peace offers denied by the Palestinians, including the Oslo Accords which was the beginning of a process which the Palestinians never meant to keep are proof of that. And the fact that the Palestinian leadership, both factions, say openly and very, very clearly that they see all of Israel as theirs, that their “Palestine from the River to the Sea” should be cleansed of Jews and they actively call for and fund the murder of Jews is a sign of the Palestinians’ good will. How can say something this ridiculous and detached from reality with a straight face ?
            “I know you’ll disagree” – reality disagrees. I, unlike you, am not denying it.
            “I repeat my out of both sides of your mouth charge against you” – and I debunked your nonsense, you ignored it.
            “says all we need to know about the depth and rigor of your thinking” – look, for the 6th time, this is very, very simple: one would expect from a nation to pronounce their own name correctly in their own dialect. That’s it. And that’s just a tiny proof from all the rest regarding the fabrication known as the Palestinian narrative.
            “As if there is a universally “correct” and “incorrect” way of saying “Palestinian”” – you mean besides what it was called by the actual people who named it ? what the actual nation it was named after is called ? It’s not “universally correct”, it’s historically correct based on the actual name of the region.
            “to some judgment on self-determination” – why are you lying about this when I literally spelled it out for you several times ? this has nothing, I repeat: nothing to do with self-determination. This has to do with the fabricated Palestinian narrative. How can you not grasp this when I repeat this to you over and over again ?
            “Nothing could better display your racism, your chauvinism.. etc” – How deep does your denial of reality goes ? seriously, I’m fascinated by this total ignorance and denial of basic historic facts as if you live in some alternate fantasy dimension.
            So reality, actual facts which you could not refute, historic evidence which you could not debunk or even touched is display of my racism, chauvinism and the rest of you nonsense. Gotcha. See, comedy gold like this is why I enjoy our little chats.

            I could point out all the parts which you ignored, like “for the sake of argument” bit and how you ignored the part where the Palestinian president himself blatantly lie about what the Palestinians are or my questions about the Jewish nationality but I bet you’ll just ignore it again.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            You’re cluttering up yet another good article with distracting nonsense. Lest we forget, Gail Agasi posted, to an intelligent article about Palestinian self-determination, irrelevant nonsense about presidents and currencies and the fact that the original name generator of Palestine as a region was a Roman Emperor, and made the utterly ridiculous insinuation that the Arabic speakers living in the region should have adopted a letter “p” instead of modifying the name as fits them, and if they didn’t they are somehow delegitimized. It’s as if Americans should be mocked for pronouncing the “s” in “Paris.” And Gail Agasi did this for no other reason than to delegitimize the Palestinians’ identity and right of self-determination. Since then, you’ve been all over this trying to legitimize Agasi’s delegitimization, obsessed with it.

            I always get the feeling with you that I’m trying to argue with Tom Cruise about Scientology. And Abu Mazen and the Palestinians are “suppressive persons.”
            https://amp.businessinsider.com/nicole-kidman-labeled-a-suppressive-person-2015-11

            More to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            And no matter that Abu Mazen and Saeb Erekat say nothing like wanting to destroy Israel and kill Jews, and no matter that Abu Mazen’s actions in keeping Israelis safe and serving as Israel’s faithful security contractor speak very loudly, and no matter that he has said that he aims to be able to visit Safed as a tourist, and no matter that he is a kind of Palestinian Quisling, no matter that he gets absolutely nothing from Israel in return except vilification, nevertheless you’ll find some Palestinian politician’s heated rhetoric somewhere to gleefully “prove” your cherished “they actively call for and fund the murder of Jews” rhetoric. As if Israeli politicians don’t all the time spout rhetoric about destroying any possibility of a Palestinian State or Palestinian self-determination or peoplehood. Hell, they just passed a law denying self-determination to incredibly loyal Druze citizens! Have you no shame, at long last?

            And no matter what anyone says you’ll just keep repeating “facts” that aren’t facts and finding it fascinating that others don’t recognize them as facts. And keep on creating fatuous false “facts,” such as: I guess Ben is unaware that Jewish people lived in what is now Israel.

            A truly narcissistic cult-like responder with which no rational conversation can be had. I never thought I’d see a parallel between Nicole Kidman and Mahmoud Abbas, but you, Tom, er, I mean Ido, made me see the light.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “And no matter that Abu Mazen and Saeb Erekat say nothing like wanting to destroy Israel and kill Jews” – How can you say this when I literally bang you over the head with the evidence ? over and over ? posted it again in the Facebook comments section. Are you going to ignore it again ?
            “keeping Israelis safe” – oh sure, besides paying literally for Jew blood, his rabid incitement again Jews, his own organization view of Israel as a non-legitimate country that should be eliminated and all of it should be theirs, how a future Palestinian should be free of Jews.
            “he gets absolutely nothing from Israel in return except vilification” – yes, we should give the anti-semite Holocaust denier who pays for Jew blood and see all of Israel as his a prize.
            ““prove” your cherished “they actively call for and fund the murder of Jews”” – his own organization, the one he is in charge of, openly declare it. He openly refuse to stop paying incentives for terrorists to kill Jews, he himself see all of Israel as “Palestine”, he himself called for it to be cleansed of Jews.
            So you have no idea about this ? how clueless are you ? and you think Fatah is a democratic party where other members can challenge the head terrorist ? are you that out of touch with reality about the Palestinians ?
            “As if Israeli politicians don’t all the time spout rhetoric about destroying any possibility of a Palestinian State” – oh by all means post it, let’s compare it to calling for the destruction of Israel and the murder of Jews by a dictatorship. Please do.
            “they just passed a law denying self-determination to incredibly loyal Druze citizens” – no they didn’t, I read the law, maybe you should to. Nowhere in it does it deny self-determination to Druze. It repeats part of Israel’s declaration of independence about the homeland of the Jews, which is of course valid, my problem is how it doesn’t mention other sections about minorities living in Israel.
            I’m sure you are aware of the major criticism of this law in Israel and this will be amended, at least it was promised following the legitimate criticism.

            “Have you no shame, at long last” – hilarious. said the clueless liar who keeps making stuff up and lying about what is posted right above his lies and clueless ignorance. Comedy gold.
            “And no matter what anyone says you’ll just keep repeating “facts” that aren’t facts” – again: which ones ? go ahead. Be specific. I was. Why is this so difficult for you ?
            “and finding it fascinating that others don’t recognize them as facts” – nope, I find it fascinating that when I provide evidence for it, which they are unable to refute, they either ignore it or lie about it. Or simply lie and claim I said things I never did, see you posts above.
            “I guess Ben is unaware that Jewish people lived in what is now Israel” – Hilarious. This is what I said: the Jewish people, members of the Jewish nation, lived in what is now Israel throughout history, judging by your response you seem to be unaware of this fact.
            Is taking things out of context your new thing ? lying and saying clueless nonsense not enough for you ?
            “A truly narcissistic cult-like responder” – again pointed out where you were clueless, again pointed out where you lied, again proved you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about, again showed how you ignore evidence and posts, again debunked your clueless nonsense.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            You’re cluttering up” – pointing out how you’re wrong, how you lie and how you have no idea what you’re talking about is now “cluttering” ? hey, whatever helps you deal with this. I’m not judging.
            Again: third time ? 4th ? I was responding toy you. Specifically to your nonsense. I said that, very, very clearly.
            “irrelevant nonsense about presidents and currencies” – are you dense ? seriously do I need to repeat this again ? I was very specific, responding to what you said. I posted about the lie and fabrication of history known as the Palestinian narrative. Very specifically so. How can you not get that ? how is this flies above your head when I literally say this ?
            Why did you lie about self determination when I literally explained this ? this is amazing.
            “the original name generator of Palestine as a region was a Roman Emperor” – nope, wrong again. The original name generator was actually a people known as Plishtim. The Roman emperor renamed it based on them following the exile of the Jews from their homeland.
            “Arabic speakers living in the region should have adopted a letter “p” – everyone else did, everyone else who didn’t use a dialect who couldn’t pronounce it correctly based on the actual given historic name of the region. I only explained this 5 times so I understand why you’re still having trouble with this.
            “they are somehow delegitimized” – are you playing dumb ? seriously, you can’t be this dense. Not delegitimization, I explained this, very, very clearly. Several time. It means it was never their name and obviously so since a Palestinian nation/country never existed.
            How can you not get this ? why are you lying when I literally said this was not about delegitimization ? more than once ?
            “It’s as if Americans should be mocked for pronouncing the “s” in “Paris.”” – seriously are you drunk or something ? I explained why your comparisons of this type are laughable and you still cling to this nonsense. Is Paris the ancient homeland of the American people ? which they claim was their historic country ? How can you not grasp this ?
            “Agasi did this for no other reason than to delegitimize the Palestinians’ identity and right of self-determination” – in your wrong opinion, not the obvious reason the same as mine proving the fabricated Palestinian narrative and its lies. It’s also hilarious how you cling to this one example and ignore the rest but of course ignoring evidence and facts is a tradition for you.
            “you’ve been all over this trying to legitimize Agasi’s delegitimization” – why are you lying again when my post is right there ? I pointed out the lie known as the Palestinian narrative. I literally said, very, very clearly that I support the Palestinian right of self determination.
            Why do you think lying like this has any effect besides showing how you’re a joke ?
            “I always get the feeling with you that I’m trying to argue with Tom Cruise about Scientology” – I always get the feeling that I’m arguing with a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about and unlike you I actually provide evidence for it. Lots of it.

            I could point out all the rest of the posts which you ignored again, like “for the sake of argument” bit and how you ignored the part where the Palestinian president himself blatantly lie about what the Palestinians are or my questions about the Jewish nationality but I bet you’ll just ignore it again like you just did.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Oh my. He references Itamar Marcus! Ido Geller, apparently, does not actually read +972 Magazine.

            Judge dismisses credibility of Palestinian Media Watch testimony
            https://972mag.com/judge-dismisses-credibility-of-palestinian-media-watch-testimony/78900/

            Ido you have inadvertently provided us the perfect exposé of what it is you do and what you are about. Judge Ganot’s scathing criticisms of Itamar Marcus could almost all, sentence for sentence, be applied directly to what you do here, tirelessly, over and over. Read it and weep. Study it.

            Now we see before us, laid out, the whole thing he does. This by Itamar Marcus is what Ido Geller would have us believe are “facts” vilifying Abu Mazen, about which he has tirelessly and rudely upbraided us. This is the basis of the “facts” he insists we can’t get through our thick skulls, “facts” with which he would “bang us over the head,” “facts” that we must be “drunk,” “dumb” to ignore. In the “palwatch” article by Itamar Marcus to which Ido links I missed the quotation of Abu Mazen and Saeb Erekat saying they want to “destroy Israel and kill Jews” and “pay for Jew blood.” Could someone point me those sentences spoken by Abu Mazen or even any mention of his name?

            Hoist with his own petard!

            That was easy.

            (Btw, the “letter P” protestations are just laughable, you outdo yourself. Just admit it.)

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): Hilarious.. how does what you posted about Itamar Marcus has anything to do with what I posted which cite the Palestinian sources directly ? do you understand what ‘directly’ means ? including videos of them saying it ? literally quoting them ?
            Please do explain. Your link is about a specific case regarding a specific ruling and the direct responsibility of the Palestinians leaders regarding that specific attack.
            First, thank you for providing a link proving what I’ve been saying, that the Palestinian leadership has been inciting for terrorism and violence against Israel, as the judge said.
            The judge denied a deliberate incitement policy over a technicality. this was 5 years ago. We now know there is a direct policy of incitement by the PA, down to actual monetary incentives (‘Pay for Slay’). The judge ruled against his testimony on a technicality of him not including the official news agency of the PLO but other news sources popular among the Palestinians. That’s it. On this hilarious nonsense you reject everything in my links ? including the evidence of the Palestinians themselves, saying what I claimed they say, very, very clearly ? how can I take you seriously when
            you do something as stupid as this ? you think this strengthen your argument ? Itamar Marcus was 100% correct, we now know this for sure, but because he didn’t quote the official PLO news agency, the judge refused to use common sense and ruled against him.

            “Judge Ganot’s scathing criticisms of Itamar Marcus could almost all, sentence for sentence, be applied directly to what you do here” – how can I take you seriously when you say something is idiotic as this ? denying everything I said, literally proving in great detail how you lied, how you’re clueless, how you have no idea what you’re talking about and you not being able to refute what I say on this ridiculous nonsense ?
            How you repeatedly ignore evidence, facts and me literally quoting where you were wrong ? how many times I did exactly that here ? I lost count.
            “Read it and weep. Study it” – nearly choked from laughing so hard, thanks. I read it, explained how what you did is ridiculous and actually counter-productive to your argument, pointed out again how you didn’t address my posts where I prove you’re a clueless liar. Again how you elegantly ignored posts which you can’t even touch.
            “facts” vilifying Abu Mazen” – how can you say something as stupid as this ? really, this is amazing. I posted links from NY Times and I can provide many from other sources from all over the world about Abu Maze’s anti-semitic Holocaust denying rants. About his terrorist organization’s incitement.
            How can you lie like this with a straight face ? “vilifying him” ? seriously ? this goes way beyond ridiculous into deranged territory. How detached from reality are you to post something as idiotic as this ? Because a judge ruled against Itamar Marcus about a technicality, which we now know for absolutely sure he was 100% correct, you can ignore reality ?
            This goes beyond pathetic, into deranged territory.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): ““facts” with which he would “bang us over the head,”” – Again: 12 time or so: prove me wrong. Go ahead. Which fact is wrong ? which information is wrong ? why is this so difficult for you ? why can’t you do this over and over and over again ?
            “I missed the quotation of Abu Mazen and Saeb Erekat” – I literally spelled this out for you in the previous posts, how can you not grasp this ? Again:
            his own organization, the one he is in charge of, openly declare it. He openly refuse to stop paying incentives for terrorists to kill Jews (‘Pay for Slay’), he himself see all of Israel as “Palestine”, he himself called for it to be cleansed of Jews.
            So you have no idea about this ? how clueless are you ? and you think Fatah is a democratic party where other members can challenge the head terrorist ? are you that out of touch with reality about the Palestinians ?

            “Hoist with his own petard!” – seriously do you have brain damage ? how can you say these idiotic things when I literally explain this to you like to a child ?
            “That was easy.” – are you trying to kill me from laughing so hard ? why did you ignore the evidence I posted ? showing the Palestinians themselves saying exactly what I claimed they say ?

            “Btw, the “letter P” protestations are just laughable, you outdo yourself. Just admit it” – I admit you ignored what I posted explaining this, again. And you ignored that I showed how your comparisons about this are laughably incorrect, again.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 3): So we are here again: you ignored the posts where I proved you have no idea what you’re talking about, where you lied, where you made hilarious ignorant claims about things you obviously had no clue about. All detailed very, very clearly in the posts above.
            You ignored the evidence I provided because a judge ruled against Itamae Marcus over a technicality, never mind that the Judge admitted he was right about incitement, never mind that this has nothing to do with the evidence I posted but with a specific case, never mind that we now know he was 100% correct. This is amazing, this level of denial of reality. For example about Abu Mazen and his organization is beyond ridiculous.
            I literally linked to them saying what I claimed they say and you deny this over that unrelated nonsense. Amazing. Really. This level of mental gymnastics should win you an Olympic medal.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Oooookay….. This is quite a temper tantrum. In three acts.

            So you’re implicitly admitting you completely invented the “pay for Jew blood” and allied quotations. Got it. Itamar and Ido. Tireless twin practitioners of the same art. Judge Ganot could be describing your collected +972 output. It’s uncanny.

            Alas, there are only so many hours one can devote to someone being wrong on the Internet.

            Remember Tom Cruise as you, and Nicole Kidman as Mahmoud Abbas? Well, here’s another funky parallel:

            You’re “Team Fake News” and I’m “Team Reality”—but have learned it’s better to be Cohen. Brendan Gallagher explains:

            Sacha Baron Cohen is the only comedian who understands the Trump era
            https://amp.dailydot.com/upstream/sacha-baron-cohen-trump-era/

            ‘…This view imagines that “Team Reality” (the left) and “Team Fake News” (the right) are engaged in a collegial back and forth, an endless debate club, and voters are weighing both sides carefully before they hit the ballot box. This argument pretends that “Team Fake News” won’t take every single argument against it in the worst faith possible, despite constant evidence to the contrary. In refusing to accept this premise….Cohen stays winning….’

            (I’ve explained this before to you more prosaically but this article will helpfully vivify it for you.)

            Your overly-emotional reaction to the challenge I present you ought to tell you something:

            “nearly choked from laughing so hard… idiotic…pathetic…deranged… brain damage… idiotic…deranged…

            It tells me something.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “This is quite a temper tantrum. In three acts” – pointing again, in great detail, how you were wrong, how you lied and how you ignored evidence on an unrelated idiotic premise is “temper tantrum”. Gotcha.
            “So you’re implicitly admitting you completely invented the “pay for Jew blood”” – no, that’s you lying again and showing your ignorance about the PA payment to terrorists known as the “Martyrs Fund”.
            “Itamar and Ido. Tireless twin practitioners of the same art.” – Again: pointed in detail how you were wrong about Itamar, how you were misleading regarding what actually happened, how you hilariously used this as a way to ignore evidence, very obvious evidence of the Palestinians themselves saying exactly what I claimed they said, is hilariously pathetic. You again ignored my posts, what I wrote about itamar explaining what actually happened, how he was 100% correct.
            Again: you ignored the evidence I provided because a judge ruled against Itamar Marcus over a technicality, never mind that the judge admitted he was right about incitement, never mind that this has nothing to do with the evidence I posted but with a specific case, never mind that we now know he was 100% correct regarding the PA policy of incitement. This is amazing, this level of denial of reality.

            “Judge Ganot could be describing your collected +972 output. It’s uncanny” – why are you lying about this nonsense again when I explained your idiotic misunderstanding about what actually happened with Itamar in the posts above ? why are you ignoring the posts again ? about what actually happened
            regarding a technicality ? why are you ignoring again how Itamar is 100% right regarding the policy of incitement by the PA ? you think ignoring it will somehow make it all go away ? are you a child ?
            “someone being wrong on the Internet.” – I literally listed all the parts in your posts where you were wrong, in great detail. Where you had obviously no clue what you were talking about, when you twisted and lied about what actually happened regarding Itamar Marcus, how you used this nonsense
            as a way to ignore evidence of the Palestinian themselves literally saying to your face what I claimed they say. How you refuse to accept the fact that the site in question is an aggregator, linking to the Palestinian sources themselves, not an opinion piece or editorials.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “You’re “Team Fake News” and I’m “Team Reality” – how can I take you seriously when you say something as hilariously stupid as this ? after I list all your ignorant nonsense in detail ? why not actually address my posts and refute the facts I’m stating ? let’s see if you can lie some more like you did about me “villifying Abu Mazen” when the evidence is again and again presented to you and you again and again ignore it as if this will somehow make it
            go away.
            “Sacha Baron Cohen” – oh yes, this will somehow make all the posts above where I very, very clearly point where you lied, where you had no idea what you were talking about, where you made idiotic mistakes, your idiotic nonsense about Itamar Marcus and how you twisted and lied about what actually happened, go away.

            “It tells me something” – what, that I find your idiotic clueless arguments and lies amusing ? this is news to you ? really ?
            Are you actually going to address all the posts where I pointed out where you lied ? where you had no idea what you were talking about ? are you ever going to address the evidence I posted in the Facebook comments section or ignore it again ?
            Go ahead, prove me wrong. Which fact is wrong ? which information is wrong ? why can’t you do this over and over and over again ? I refuted your nonsense sentence after sentence. Why is this so difficult for you ? why are you ignoring posts and evidence over and over again ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            I really don’t care how you take me. We, you and me, are not a thing. The thing is the issues at hand.

            New name for you: Idomar.

            You provide absolutely nothing new with these repetitious rants stuffed with simplistic Itamar Marcusian distortions. A lot of noise. I’m not trying to “refute” “facts” or “information” that are no such thing. Judge Ganot is correct. Saying she ruled against Marcus on a “technicality” is balderdash, bush-league pettifoggery.

            Everyone who disagrees with you and calls you out on these practices is not “lying.” This habit of yours of flinging that word about is incredibly obnoxious and childish.

            So Idomar, may I kindly ask when are you going to demand the stopping of the massive “pay for pilfer and plunder” payments to settler terrorists? You who so want to end the occupation? ==>

            Israel Is the Terrorist
            Young Palestinians are not carrying out acts of terror- they are leading a desperate struggle against an army that is a thousand times stronger than they
            Ilana Hammerman
            https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-israel-is-the-terrorist-1.5976966

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): And again you ignored the evidence I provided, again ignored the posts showing very, very clearly how you have no idea what you’re talking about, again ignored the posts where you lied, again just skipped posts that you refuse to address, etc.
            Why do you think doing this has any positive effect on your pathetic attempts at argument ? you don’t understand how not being able to do so is an asnwer all by itself ?
            “ou provide absolutely nothing new with these repetitious rants” – facts, evidence, literally pointing at where you made idiotic mistakes and laughable comparisons, where you literally contradict reality, where you literally say the opposite of the people you attempt to defend is “rants and nothing” ? how can I take you like anything other than a pathetic joke ?
            “Itamar Marcusian distortions” – seriously are you trolling now ? how many times have I pointed out your nonsense about Itamar Marcus ? about 7 ? how many times have you addressed the facts I pointed out ? facts taken from your own link ? zero.
            Again: Your link is about a specific case regarding a specific ruling and the direct responsibility of the Palestinians leaders regarding that specific attack.
            First, thank you for providing a link proving what I’ve been saying, that the Palestinian leadership has been inciting for terrorism and violence against Israel, as the judge said.
            The judge denied a deliberate incitement policy over a technicality. this was 5 years ago. We now know there is a direct policy of incitement by the PA, down to actual monetary incentives (‘Pay for Slay’). The judge ruled against his testimony on a technicality of him not including the official news agency of the PLO but other news sources popular among the Palestinians. That’s it. On this hilarious nonsense you reject everything in my links ?

            How can you not grasp this when I post it over and over and over again ? I refuse to believe you’re this stupid.

            ” I’m not trying to “refute” “facts” or “information” that are no such thing” – lying about my posts when they are right there, when the evidence I posted in the Facebook comments section is right there, only adds to the size of the pathetic joke that you are.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 3): The PA has an official newspaper, Al Hayat al Jadida. If it is publishing incitement, which the judge agreed it did, then that incitement is essentially incitement from the PA itself. The same goes for the official PA TV station. To say that the relative lack of incitement at Al Jazeera, a pan-Arab newspaper, or Al-Quds, which is not an official PA paper, as evidence that the PA does not practice incitement is idiotic.
            The PA can’t dictate the contents of Al Jazeera, it does dictate the contents of Al Hayat al Jadida and PA TV.

            the judge asks about al Fajr which used to be the official PLO newspaper, it has not been published since 1993. It doesn’t have any online presence nor does it have a Wikipedia entry. If Judge Gannot is trying to use that as evidence that Marcus is incompetent, she ended up proving that her criticism of Marcus is based on her own ignorance.

            This is the final ruling by the judge: the judge clearly ruled that the PA incites to violence and she is very disturbed by some of the evidence Itamar Marcus showed. However, she said that there is no evidence that PA incitement resulted in that specific terror attack.
            So the judge agreed there is anti-Jewish and anti-Israel incitement in the PA, Itamar Marcus was 100% correct and there is a policy of incitement directed, funded and controlled by the PA. From TV shows, radio, posters, newspapers, speeches and sermons which became very evident in the following years.
            But based on technicalities and a judge who lacks common sense, Itamar’s testimony was rejected. Based on the judge’s argument, it is the judge who is incompetent, not Itamar Marcus.

            “Everyone who disagrees with you and calls you out on these practices is not “lying.”” – you saying things that never happened, you claiming things that are incorrect, you claiming I said things I never did is lying. Not disagreement. All detailed on the posts above, which you ignore over and over and over again. I have no idea why you would think lying about this as well is helping your case.
            Every time I say you are lying I provided the evidence for it, you ignore it.

            “may I kindly ask when are you going to demand the stopping of the massive “pay for pilfer and plunder”” – may I kindly ask why you ignored the evidence I provided about your lies and ignorance regarding the Palestinian ‘Pay for Slay’ initiative ? so you had no clue about the ‘Martyr’s fund’ ?
            then I’ll gladly change the subject.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 4): “Young Palestinians are not carrying out acts of terror” – why are you changing the subject again ? why are you ignoring all the posts above showing in great detail how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about ?
            Maybe the young Palestinians should act against the ones who are the source of their suffering, the Palestinian leadership and t he Arab/Islamic countries who perpetuate their situation for political gain.
            Again: I’ll gladly discuss other issues with you, after you actually address the posts above which you ignored. Where I very clearly pointed out your ignorance and your lies. How about actually addressing the evidence I posted in the Facebook comments section ? you made me laugh so hard about the Abu Mazen nonsense: I’m “vilifying Abu Mazen”. The Anti-Semite Holocaust denier, the head of the organization who calls for the elimination of Israel, who calls for Israel to be cleansed of Jews, an organization who refuses to accept the legitimate existence of Israel, who see all of Israel as his “Palestine. I’m vilifying him. This idiotic nonsense is very amusing.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            @Idomar: Pure pettifoggery. Of course there is incitement from some. Judge Ganot has it in perspective, however. You surely don’t. There is loads of incitement on the Israeli side too, from the Prime Minister on down to the settler rabble, those “holy” ones he caters to and serve as his proxy advanced forces in the land grab. But you don’t demonize tous les Israéliens or even any of them. How come?

            Where’s (part 2)?! I’m crushed! The disappointment! I hang on your every word! And read them all! I’ll wait in breathless anticipation of your second installment of your magnum opus!

            Long live Judge Ganot!

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “Pure pettifoggery. Of course there is incitement from some” – seriously are you that stupid ? Again: incitement directed, funded and controlled by the PA. Itamar Marcus was 100% correct. The judge admitted he was rights but in her opinion he didn’t use enough material from what she designated as a more important news source.
            Again: “Judge Ganot is correct. Saying she ruled against Marcus on a “technicality” is balderdash” – no it isn’t, why are you lying again ? your own link clearly said it. The policy of incitement against Jews and Israel by the PA is a fact.
            and I quote: “Judge Ganot: without any doubt, the existence of incitement against Israel and against Jews in the Palestinian media has been proven”. The judge decided that a direct deliberate incitement by the PA has not been proven.
            Itamar Marcus showed evidence from PA media clearly showing incitement against Jews and Israel. The judge didn’t accept his testimony because the news sources he provided, the radio and TV shows were not the ones with the largest circulation in the Palestinian Authority. And Tamar made the mistake of counting on the judge’s common sense with that amount of evidence.

            (more to follow)

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): The judge didn’t like his attitude, from your link: “expert witness Marcus was asked about the Al-Fajr newspaper and responded by saying, ‘I am not an expert on Al-Fajr and I wonder, what expertise is required for reading and comprehending the articles?”
            And he’s absolutely right, what expertise do you need to see the rabid blatant incitement in the PA against Jews and Israel ? something the judge admitted exists. So on this ground and using most of his evidence from the Palestinian papers not in largest circulation and I quote: “even though Al-Quds has the largest circulation within the Palestinian Authority’s area and Al-Hayat was the lowest circulating newspaper, most of the citations in Marcus’s expert testimony were taken from Al-Hayat”.
            Itamar replied: “The expert was asked why he acted in this manner, and he replied that he did so because Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, is owned by the Authority”. Also the judge didn’t like how he didn’t include evidence from WAFA, the official news agency linked to the PLO.
            Itamar explained this “During the cross-examination expert Marcus agreed that WAFA is the official news agency linked to the PLO [ … ] and yet he did not find it necessary to include even one quote from WAFA in his expert’s testimony”.
            This is what the judge said: “Marcus’s expert-witness testimony expert is skewed and in fact it is biased, especially when it became clear that on one hand it used quotations from insignificant newspapers, and on the other hand it has been established that the testimony ignored the existence of other newspapers and television networks that are very popular among the residents of the Palestinian Authority”.
            He didn’t use the most popular media, he didn’t use recent media and not enough articles. on this nonsense the judge refused to accept his testimony.

            (more to follow)

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 3): Again, 6th time: Itamar Marcus was 100% correct. The PA incitement ranges from TV shows, religious sermons, newspapers and websites, literally paying incentives (a fact which you ignored 4 times now) to murder Jews, etc.
            The judge admitted he was right. We know for a fact he is right. Why are you still lying about this ? why are you ignoring this ? from your own link no less ? how stupid can you be to continue doing this over and over again when the evidence is shoved in your face over and over again ?

            “Judge Ganot has it in perspective, however. You surely don’t” – oh sure, they call for Jew slaughter and pay for it, they call for Israel’s destruction but it’s “in prospective”. It’s all good. Are you insane ?
            “There is loads of incitement on the Israeli side too” – that’s great! please post your evidence, by all means. Let’s compare the 2, if I ever needed more examples how you’re extremely clueless about all of this.
            “But you don’t demonize tous les Israéliens or even any of them. How come?” – please do post your evidence, by all means. Let’s review it and compare it to the rabid incitement to slaughter Jews by the official Palestinian leadership, one led by an Anti-semite Holocaust denier and the other by Islamic Jihadist terrorists. Both calling for Israel’s elimination. This should be good. Go ahead.

            (more to follow)

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 4): “Where’s (part 2)” – ask this technological marvel of a site.
            “I hang on your every word! And read them all!” – I know you do.
            “Long live Judge Ganot!” – now I get it. No wonder you adore someone who ignores common sense and evidence, who is in deep denial of reality. You found a kindred spirit.

            And of course again you ignored the evidence I provided, again ignored the posts showing very clearly how you have no idea what you’re talking about, again ignored the posts where you lied, again just skipped posts that you refuse to address, again you ignored the evidence I posted in the Facebook comments section, again you ignored my posts about Itamar Marcus and how he was 100% correct.
            Why do you think doing this has any positive effect on your pathetic attempts at argument ? you don’t understand how not being able to do so is an answer all by itself ? also do you actually think naming me has any effect whatsoever besides again showing how you’re a child ? that’s so adorable. And yes like Itamar Marcus I am 100% correct and you haven’t been able to refute my posts, not once. Keep ignoring them, maybe it’ll go away.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Ben, posted all my response in the Facebook section, near the evidence you keep ignoring.
            Until this site decides to function.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            One notices that you are always saying, “for the sixth time,” “for the seventh time,” etc. Does it ever occur to you this is a comment on your thinking not ours? The question answers itself.

            One also notices how you are the only one who complains about this site’s “dysfunction.” Does it ever occur to you that your habits and your style—obsessive, verbose, excessive, anxious, impatient, insecure—has something to do with this? Of course not, This question too, answers itself.

            Whatever differences there are between Palestinian incitement content and Israeli incitement content are largely accounted for by the vast differences in power and resources between the two sides. Does that occur to you? Do you even begin to understand this? This question, also, answers itself.

            “ like Itamar Marcus I am 100% correct” <== Ido Geller’s entire, tiresome exercise in self-deception crystallized.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            And again you ignored my posts, again ignored the questions, again ignored me pointing out in great detail where you were clueless, where you lied, where you had no idea what you were talking about.
            How can you not realize that not being able to answer or address the facts I’m stating is an answer all by its own ?
            “One notices that you are always saying, “for the sixth time” – I enjoy counting how many times you ignore my posts, facts and evidence. Showing how deep your denial of reality goes.
            “Does it ever occur to you this is a comment on your thinking not ours” – yes, pointing out how you ignore my posts and evidence is not an indication on how you’re ignoring posts and evidence. It’s something else.
            “One also notices how you are the only one who complains about this site’s “dysfunction.”” – right because I haven’t seen you double posting because this site takes forever to show your posts. This is sarcasm by the way if it’s too subtle for you.
            “Does it ever occur to you that your habits and your style” – it occurred to me that I’m posting on a pro-Palestinian news blog and he facts and evidence I’m providing is not exactly popular here.
            “This question too, answers itself” – how about you answer the questions I asked you ? address the posts you ignored ? address the evidence I provided ? about your nonsense with Itamar Marcus to name one of the many.
            “Whatever differences there are” – nope, that’s you squirming out of a debate again. You made a comment, never mind that it didn’t address my posts but changed the subject, back it up. Post your evidence.
            “differences in power and resources between the two sides” – are you that clueless ? are you that unaware of rabid incitement of the Palestinians against Jews and Israel ? your answer here make zero sense.
            “Do you even begin to understand this?” – I don’t need more examples that you’re clueless. There are plenty in the posts above, which you ignored of course. But thanks anyway.
            “Ido Geller’s entire, tiresome exercise” – why are you again ignoring the fact that he was 100% correct ? that huge amount of incitement from the PA against Jews and Israel exists ? that the judge in the link you posts says so.
            How can I treat you other than a pathetic joke when you make such a hilariously idiotic comment when your own link contradicts you ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “Ido Geller’s entire, tiresome exercise” – why are you again ignoring the fact that he was 100% correct?”

            Another epic, Gellerian crystallization of Geller’s nonsense.
            (Refute this sentence of Geller’s and I’ve refuted the whole verbose, tiresome, repetitive “oeuvre.”)
            I am not *ignoring* this “fact.”
            In the first place it is not a “fact.”
            It is an *opinion*.
            I am *disagreeing* with this *opinion* of yours for all the reasons Judge Ganot disagreed with Itomar Marcus–it may have escaped your notice.
            Itomar Marcus was not “100% correct.”
            Neither the Judge nor I think he was.
            Your “fact” is not a fact.
            This is the umpteenth time I have had to perform this elementary school correction for you.
            I am saddled with an exasperating, amusing, obstinate pupil.
            Most of whose “facts” are too tiresomely numerous and screwed up to bother untangling them.
            I am not your personal internet nanny.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “In the first place it is not a “fact.”” – of course it is, the judge in your own link admitted it. There is a huge amount of incitement by the PA against Jews and Israel.
            This fact is very well documented, Itamar Marcus was 100% correct. Today we know the extent of the incitement, paid for and directed by the PA: from school books, websites, papers, posters, sermons, TV shows, etc.
            This is not a theory, this is not an assumption, this is a fact. Again: your own link says so. I explained why his testimony was rejected 4 times or so, you ignored it each time.

            “It is an *opinion*.” – why are you lying about this when your own link contradicts you ? when I can flood this comments section with so much proof of deliberate incitement against Jews and Israel by the PA that it would crash the site ?
            How can you be this clueless about a subject you are (pathetically) trying to debate ?
            “I am *disagreeing* with this *opinion* of yours” – you are in disagreement with reality.
            “reasons Judge Ganot disagreed” – and I explained this to you, 4 or 5 times, and you ignored it. She disagreed because in her opinion Itamar didn’t use enough what she thought are more official PA sources and there was no direct link between the rabid incitement to that specific terrorist attack. And apparently she was insulted when Itamar was puzzled by her refusal to use common sense.
            I explained this to you, in detail, like to a child and you are still unable to grasp this. Incredible. Itamar Marcus was 100% correct about the incitement paid for and directed by the PA. This is a fact. Deny it as much as you like, this is not going to change.
            “Your “fact” is not a fact.” – I have no idea why you keep lying about this when your own evidence contradicts you as I explained over and over and over again and you of course ignored it.

            “I am not your personal internet nanny” – no, your my personal source of Internet amusement.

            And as per tradition, you again ignored my posts, again ignored the questions, again ignored me pointing out in great detail where you were clueless, where you lied, where you had no idea what you were talking about.
            How can you not realize that not being able to answer or address the facts I’m stating is an answer all by its own ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Now, caught out, you’re simply walking it back, slip-sliding away from what you really said. The “fact” you keep saying is a fact, but is not a fact and is rather an opinion, is the opinion, supported by slippery selective sampling by Itamar Marcus, exposed in court, that the bulk of incitement is “directed, funded and controlled by the PA. Itamar Marcus was 100% correct.” He was not 100% correct and Judge Ganot sensibly found him to be incorrect. Judge Ben finds you incorrect and resorting to the same slippery misrepresentations as Itomar Marcus. (This is why we find your new name, Idomar, so apt. I like it a lot.)

            It’s that simple. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

            Opinions and contentious interpretations are not “facts.” Half-truths are not whole truths. Sixteenth-truths are not half-truths. Shades of grey are not black and white.

            It’s interesting how you hide behind “she broke the law, she broke the law” in regards to a Palestinian poet; you’re an officious, tail wagging Israeli state legal beagle in that matter, but when the law in the form of the estimable and unbiased Judge Ganot rules on the matter of sources of incitement, and against a Jewish rabble rousing disinformation specialist, you can’t accept it. Accept it. Honesty is the best policy.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “Now, caught out, you’re simply walking it back” – where the hell do you bring these hilarious lies from ? caught out ? walking it back ?
            Again: I said Itamar Marcus was 100% correct. I repeated this fact more than 7 times, explained why he is right more than 7 times in detail. Over and over again. You ignored it.
            How can you not grasp this by now ? you can’t be this stupid. Is this your idea of trolling ? it is funny.
            “is not a fact and is rather an opinion” – Again: the deliberate incitement against Jews and Israel by the PA, which is very well documented, which your own link confirmed, is not an opinion. It is a very, very real fact.
            Why do you keep lying about this when your own link, your own evidence, contradicts you ?
            ” slippery selective sampling by Itamar Marcus” – go to PMW site and tell me if that huge amount of TV shows, papers, sermons, speeches, posters, lectures, school books, payment incentives, etc are “selective sampling”. Sampling out of what ? do the other sources do the opposite regarding Jews and Israel ?
            This is a new record of stupid for you. You are either completely unaware of the rabid incitement going on with the Palestinians against Jews and Israel or you’re being purposefully deceitful.
            “exposed in court” – I literally spelled this out for you 8 times now, how can you not grasp this ? Again: he didn’t use enough what she thought are more official PA sources and there was no direct link between the rabid incitement to that specific terrorist attack. And apparently she was insulted when Itamar was puzzled by her refusal to use common sense.
            That’s it. He was right, rabid incitement by the PA is a fact, the judge agreed with this. Your own evidence contradicts you, do you understand ? how is this so difficult for you to grasp ? amazing.
            “Judge Ben finds you incorrect” – did you miss your round of meds or something ?
            “This is why we find your new name, Idomar, so apt. I like it a lot.” – yes, calling me childish names will save you from the embarrassing lying hole you dug yourself into. Again. Keep trying though, I find this kind of stupid very entertaining.
            “It’s that simple. Why is this so hard for you to understand? ” – Trying to break the pathetic record ? I provided proof from your own link that you are wrong, explained why Itamar’s testimony was rejected, explained how he was 100% correct.
            You again and again ignore this. Saying that only shows how deep your denial of reality is. I understand very well that you are a clueless liar who repeatedly ignore posts not to your liking.
            “Opinions and contentious interpretations are not “facts.”” – the fact that the PA funds and spreads huge amount of incitement against Jews and Israel is not an opinion. It’s not an interpretation. Lie about this as much as you like, this is not going to change.
            “It’s interesting how you hide behind” – you seem to have a very tenuous grasp on what reality and evidence means. I explained the poet thing so many times in great detail backed by what actually happened and by what was actually said, no wonder you are still having a hard time grasping it.
            “Judge Ganot rules on the matter of sources of incitement” – Again: about that specific case. She couldn’t find a direct link to that specific case. She herself admitted the rabid horrible incitement by the PA exists, she said it herself, how can you be this clueless ? seriously, were you dropped on your head as a child ?
            “Honesty is the best policy” – as usual I always enjoy it when you finish with a great joke.

            And as usual you again ignored my posts, again ignored the questions, again ignored me pointing out in great detail where you were clueless, where you lied, where you had no idea what you were talking about in the posts above.
            How can you not realize that not being able to answer or address the facts I’m stating is an answer all by its own ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            I’m sorry this is so hard for you, and so hard for you to understand. I can’t help you any further than I already have. Don’t let it get you down.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Like a child who is confronted by something he can’t handle you again ignore my posts where I prove in great detail how you’re clueless, how you have no idea what you’re talking about, how you lie over and over again.
            Again you didn’t answer my questions, again you didn’t address the fact that your own link refutes your idiotic nonsense. Amazing. Really. Not to mention all the posts above which you ignored. All the questions you ignored.
            You think refusing to address my posts, which refute your nonsense sentence after sentence, refusing to address the evidence I posted, including the many links in the Facebook comments section, has any effect on your position besides showing again and again how you’re a pathetic joke ?
            I literally spelled it out for you, like to a child, so many times and you can’t seem to grasp it. Or you simply refuse to because the cognitive dissonance of understanding that I’m right combined with your delusional denial of reality is too much for you. And you don’t even realize how refusing to address my posts, pointing in detail how you’re a clueless liar, is an answer all by itself.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Have you thought about joining a support group?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Have you thought about actually addressing my posts refuting your lying clueless nonsense in detail instead of ignoring them ? how about addressing the evidence I provided ? answering my questions ? for example how about coming to terms with the fact that your own link contradicts your nonsense ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            You could look into support groups for cranks?* It might be right up your alley.

            * [Wikipedia]”Crank” is a pejorative term used for a person who holds an unshakable belief that most of his or her contemporaries consider to be false.[1] A crank belief is so wildly at variance with those commonly held that it is considered ludicrous. Cranks characteristically dismiss all evidence or arguments which contradict their own unconventional beliefs, making any rational debate a futile task and rendering them impervious to facts, evidence, and rational inference.
            Common synonyms for “crank” include crackpot and kook. A crank differs from a fanatic in that the subject of the fanatic’s obsession is either not necessarily widely regarded as wrong or not necessarily a “fringe” belief. Similarly, the word quack is reserved for someone who promotes a medical remedy or practice that is widely considered to be ineffective; this term, however, does not imply any deep belief in the idea or product they are attempting to sell. Crank may also refer to an ill-tempered individual or one who is in a bad mood, but that usage is not the subject of this article.
            Although experts in the field find a crank’s beliefs ridiculous, cranks are sometimes very successful in convincing non-experts of their views. A famous example is the Indiana Pi Bill where a state legislature nearly wrote into law a crank result in geometry.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Hard not to notice how you again didn’t address my posts refuting your lying clueless nonsense in detail, how you again ignored where I proved in detail how you have no idea what you’re talking about. How about addressing the evidence I provided ? how about answering my questions ? I refuted your clueless lying nonsense sentence after sentence. copy/pasting nonsense ? giving my childish names ? are you trying to break your pathetic clueless liar record ? not easy based on our previous chats but I have faith in you!

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Oh hey, come to think of it, here’s some typical, ahem, “evidence” of yours that we can address.

            Over at this article,
            https://972mag.com/israel-sentences-palestinian-poet-to-five-months-for-inciting-terror-in-poem/136968/

            …regarding your derogatory tirade about “mekhabel,” and your claim that I was, you put it, “clueless about a word in Hebrew, probably read that hilarious nonsense in some pro-Palestinian propaganda site”:

            I think the subtlety and nuance of the author I quoted (Yoav Haifawi), not to mention his command of Hebrew, is quite lost on you. It would not be the first time of course, and it is emblematic of how your supposedly ironclad “facts” are not facts at all, Ido Geller; how your incessant “clueless” and “hilarious” epithets fall flat; and how you eagerly, willy-nilly, traffic in smug, lazy, “everybody knows,” right-wing Israeli assumptions, essentially propaganda, without even being aware of it. ==> 

            https://ulpan.com/how-to-say-terrorist-in-hebrew/

            See the “saboteur” versus “literally terrorist” distinction Ami Steinberger makes. 

            All of which supports Yoav Haifawi’s case. And sucks the air out of your sneering, derogatory lecture to us.

            An Israeli professional Hebrew teacher and I correct Ido the Israeli’s Hebrew. And expose another “fact” that ain’t a fact, another distortion and knee jerk oversimplification, arising from mere prejudice.
            Can’t make this stuff up. Did I say “hoist by his own petard” somewhere before? 

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Holy hell, can you dig yourself deeper into the clueless hole ? the word ‘terrorist’ in Hebrew is ‘Mehabel’. That’s it.
            Again your own link provides the proof of the opposite of what you say. How can you be this embarrassingly clueless ?
            “how your supposedly ironclad “facts”” – seriously ? are you that dumb ? the English word ‘terrorist’ is in Hebrew ‘Mehabel’ or ‘Mehabelet’. It so happens that it’s used more often regarding Arab terrorists because there are plenty of those around.
            Jews have also been called ‘Mehabel’ when the article writer wants to use the word in Hebrew and not ‘Loazit’ (English).

            “how you eagerly, willy-nilly, traffic in smug, lazy, “everybody knows,”” – Hilarious. I’m guessing you’re not a Hebrew speaker otherwise you’ll actually know how insanely stupid your pathetic attempts to save yourself from another idiotic mistake looks like.
            I posted many examples where Jews were specifically referred to as ‘Mehabel’ in the Facebook comments section. Are you going to ignore this evidence as well ? that refutes your idiotic lying nonsense again ?

            “An Israeli professional Hebrew teacher and I correct Ido the Israeli’s Hebrew” – no you didn’t, you only showed again how you have no idea what you’re talking about.
            “And expose another “fact” that ain’t a fact” – yes it is you clueless moron. Read the evidence I provided in the Facebook section.

            Hard not to notice how you again didn’t address my posts refuting your lying clueless nonsense in detail, how you again ignored where I proved in detail how you have no idea what you’re talking about. How about addressing the evidence I provided ? how about answering my questions ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            We are all well aware that “mekhabel” is the word Israeli Hebrew speakers use for “terrorist,” whether Arab or Jewish. And not these other words Steinberger points to. That is actually the general point Haifawi is getting at and that you miss! I’m not a fluent, native Hebrew speaker. But I am also equally not steeped in Israeli sociolinguistic assumptions! So you derogate Yoav Haifawi but entirely miss his point! Willfully. And not for the first time.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Unbelievable! seriously, how dense can you be ? Again, 3rd time: “Mehabel” is not a special Hebrew term, and most definitely, as my evidence clearly show, not reserved for Palestinian terrorists. It’s simply the Hebrew translation for the word ‘terrorist’. Anyone who claims otherwise is lying, plain and simple. As evident by the many articles who refer to Jews as ‘Mehabel’ in Hebrew. As evident by the link you yourself provided. Amazing. How can you not understand something this simple ? something my evidence in the Facebook comments section very, very clearly show ? something your own link shows ? Really, this is stupid of a new level. I’m actually impressed.

            Hard not to notice how you again didn’t address my posts refuting your lying clueless nonsense in detail, how you again ignored where I proved in detail how you have no idea what you’re talking about. How about addressing the evidence I provided ? how about answering my questions ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “How can you not understand something this simple ?”

            This ritual piece of abuse of yours is always funnier than you intend it to be. Because the joke is invariably on you: it’s not that simple and that’s why you don’t understand it! (And someone who actually has an argument, Ido, and a few ounces of security, feels no need to heap abuse on persons. You, and persons like Donald Trump, for example, through their behavior show a lack of security.)

            And here’s also Haifawi’s point: “mekhabel” is wantonly over-applied to Arab persons but routinely under-applied to Jewish offenders. In case you still don’t get it. (Which you won’t.) I suggest reading the License to Kill series of +972 Magazine. To date you show no evidence of having done so or at least of having understood it (it’s not simple).

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            How deep are you going to dig yourself into the stupid hole again ? you changed the subject so you wouldn’t have to address all the posts where I point out very clearly where you lied, where you had no idea what you’re talking about, where you made embarrassing mistake by making a bigger one. This is comedy gold.
            This is what you posted: “For the Israeli racist regime, media and public every Palestinian that is shot by the Israelis is immediately defined as “Mekhabel” – a special term invented in Hebrew to de-humanize Arab resistance fighters, not even describing them as regular “terrorists”.
            Did you post this ? yes or no ? this is a fabrication, a lie. It’s not a special term invented in Hebrew for “Arab resistance fighters” (apparently attempting to slaughter children is “resistance”). It is the literally translation of the word ‘terrorist’ in Hebrew.
            Ask any Hebrew speaker how do you say ‘terrorist’ in Hebrew and you’ll get the same answer: ‘mehabel’. How can you not grasp this after I spell it out for you so many time ? incredible.
            “mekhabel” is wantonly over-applied to Arab persons but routinely under-applied to Jewish offenders” – Again: the evidence I provided contradicts this. Jews who are also terrorists are named so. I can flood the comments section with examples, I asked you so in the Facbook comments section. You ignored it.
            Again: It so happens that it’s used more often regarding Arab terrorists, this is true, because there are plenty of those around. That’s it. How can you not grasp this ? amazing.

            Hard not to notice how you again didn’t address my posts refuting your lying clueless nonsense in detail, how you again ignored where I proved in detail how you have no idea what you’re talking about. How about addressing the evidence I provided ? how about answering my questions ?
            There are so many examples that I don’t know where to begin. Why are you ignoring them again and again and again ? you think doing this will somehow make it go away ? are you a child ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            So have I. Also again hard not to notice how you again didn’t address my posts refuting your lying clueless nonsense in detail in this comments section, how you again ignored where I proved in detail how you have no idea what you’re talking about. How about addressing the evidence I provided ? how about answering my questions ?
            There are so many examples that I don’t know where to begin. Why are you ignoring them again and again and again ? you think doing this will somehow make it go away ? are you a child ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            You’re not ignored, you’re discounted, and there is a difference. Though I might altogether ignore your inevitable reply to this.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Hilarious.. “discounted”.

            Ben: *clueless lying nonsense*.
            Ido: no it isn’t. here’s the detailed explanation why you are wrong backed by evidence. feel free to challenge it.
            Ben: *crickets chirping*
            Ido: ?
            Ben: no, no I’m not ignoring you showing in detail how I’m a clueless liar, I’m discounting it! yes! that’s the ticket.

            This is comedy gold. Thanks for the laugh.

            Reply to Comment
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