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Humanitarian aid to Palestinians ‘at an all-time low,’ UN warns

The funding crisis is particularly devastating in the Gaza Strip, where humanitarian officials say basic services such as education, health, and food security have been reduced to a minimum.

By Fidaa Shurrab

Palestinian refugees play in an impoverished area in Gaza City on January 17, 2018, after the White House froze tens of millions of dollars in aid to UNRWA. (Wissam Nassar/Flash90)

Palestinian refugees play in an impoverished area in Gaza City on January 17, 2018, after the White House froze tens of millions of dollars in aid to UNRWA. (Wissam Nassar/Flash90)

Funding for humanitarian activities in the occupied Palestinian territories is “at an all-time low,” according to a UN agency responsible for humanitarian affairs in the West Bank and Gaza.

According to a report published this month by the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), as of a few weeks ago only $159 million of a requested $539.7 million had been secured for the 2018 Humanitarian Response Plan (HRP), the strategy and funding appeal meant to address the needs of the humanitarian community in the occupied territories.

The lack of funding has had a devastating impact on non-governmental organizations in the Gaza Strip. A policy paper published last year by the Palestinian NGOs Network (PNGO), a coordination group aiming to strengthen Palestinian civil society, shows that funding for NGOS in the besieged enclave was halved in 2016, compared to the previous year.

The lack of funding means that the remaining aid has gone almost exclusively to addressing short-term needs and emergency response projects. Doing so, PNGO manager Amjad Al Shawwa explained, takes away from humanitarian organizations’ sustainability and development goals.

According to OCHA, 1.57 million of the Gaza Strip’s 1.8 million residents rely on humanitarian assistance. The unemployment rate in the Gaza Strip has reached 32.4 percent — the highest it has been in two decades. The combination of Israel’s siege and internal Palestinian divisions means that the NGO sector often has to provide basic services in place of the weakened Hamas government.

The majority of the employment programs in the Palestinian territories depend on international financial aid, but the funding cuts have created a situation where a number of organizations are dramatically decreasing their services, with some operating solely on an administrative level.

According to PNGO’s data, already last year 60 percent of non-governmental organizations were unable to cover their operational expenses, including paying staff salaries. Consequently, entire service programs have been greatly reduced or eliminated completely. Services such as education, health, food security, as well as psychological support and support for people with disabilities have all been reduced to a minimum.

Palestinians receive aid packs from the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNWRA) in Rafah, southern Gaza Strip, on September 27, 2018. (Abed Rahim Khatib/Flash90)

Palestinians receive aid packs from the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNWRA) in Rafah, southern Gaza Strip, on September 27, 2018. (Abed Rahim Khatib/Flash90)

PNGO found that 30 percent of Gaza-based NGOs had decreased their operational cost; 56 percent were looking for new sources of funding; 58 percent terminated at least some employee contracts; 22 percent cut salaries; and 18 percent were trying to establish income-generating projects to sustain themselves.

The gap has created a situation in which NGOs cannot respond to the increasing needs of the residents of the Gaza Strip. The shortage has been especially detrimental in the wake of the Great Return March, which has led to a further deterioration in humanitarian conditions.

“The past years have constituted real challenges for NGOs in Palestine, specifically in the Gaza Strip, due to the withdraw of international and Arab funding for all types of projects, whether they are developmental or humanitarian relief projects. The financial funding deficit for NGOs has reached 70 percent,” said PNGO’s Al Shawwa.

According to Al Shawwa, travel and movement restrictions imposed by the Israeli occupation hinder NGOs from establishing connections with donors. Furthermore, the Israeli army bans a variety of materials needed for humanitarian projects in the Strip.

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Local NGOs are not the only ones being affected. International organizations, especially those dependent on funding from USAID, an agency of the United States government responsible for administering civilian foreign aid and development assistance, have taken a significant hit recently.

Organizations such as Mercy Corps, International Medical Corps, and Catholic Relief Services have all faced severe cuts in the wake of the Trump administration’s decision to cut USAID funding to the Palestinian territories.

Earlier in 2018, the White House announced it would cut $300 million in funding to UNRWA , the UN agency that provides services to millions of Palestinian refugees across Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, the West Bank and Gaza.

“Providing the most essential needs for people in Gaza has become very challenging for most of NGOs,” said Reem Freina, executive manager of the Aisha Association for Women and Child Protection. “The governmental sector cannot respond to these needs due to political conflict. Accordingly, the NGOs in Gaza take on the responsibility to provide most of the needed services that include health, livelihood, education, and psychosocial support.”

Freina added that the lack of services has caused severe psychological issues for people in Gaza, with a notable increase in suicide, crime, and homelessness.

“In 2015 Atfaluna faced a serious lack of funding that constituted a threat to the sustainability of our services to children and adults with hearing loss,” said Naim Kabaja, the director of Atfaluna Society for Deaf Children. The organization has been struggling with funding since 2015, and has had to cut its employees’ salaries by up to 30 percent, and is no longer accepting students from outside Gaza City. (Full disclosure: The author works for Atfaluna Society for Deaf Children.)

“We serve about 20,000 people with hearing loss, annually. We had to cut employees’ salaries and limit our service provision to Gaza only. This has doubled the suffering of people with hearing loss, who already suffer from poor livelihoods and cannot afford the cost of their special needs,” Kabaja added.

Fidaa Shurrab is a projects and fundraising officer who has worked with several NGOs in the Gaza Strip. She is also a freelance translator and writer. 

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    COMMENTS

    1. itshak Gordine

      It’s normal, an artificial entity can not survive without infusions..
      For decades, the “Palestinian people” have been living on international charity, while the really needy countries, especially in Africa, receive almost nothing.To be “Palestinian” is a life annuity without a counterpart.

      Reply to Comment
        • Daniel

          The US provides economic and military aid to many nations in the region. The aid sent to Israel every year pales in comparison to the combined money spent on Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt, and Pakistan.
          Of all the nations to which the US gives aid, no other country comes close to repaying the investment the US has made in Israel. Giving aid to Israel is also beneficial to the US. for strategic, economic and technological reasons.
          most of the money comes back to the US because it has to be spent on American products. Some of it is used on shared US and Israel technological developments like the Arrow anti-ballistic missile defense system and Iron Dome.
          The US keeps 6 war reserve stocks in Israel and it’s probably the safest place to keep American missiles, bombers, equipment and hospitals for US forces.
          Israel’s position is very critical for US to quickly react to any possible threat in the Middle-East. Shared military information, intelligence and training is common.
          Basically Israel is strategic asset for the US.
          Israel is a leader in technology, and has shared this tech with the US. To quote Warren Buffett: “If you are looking for brains, energy and dynamism in the Middle East, Israel is the only place you need to go”.

          I can go on. Comparing the aid given to Israel with the aid given to the Palestinians is dishonest.

          Reply to Comment
          • john

            what’s dishonest is itshak pretending that palestinian identity is at all tied to ‘international charity’.

            Reply to Comment
          • Bruce Gould

            @David: as a single country Israel receives more aid than any other country. But you’re saying it’s ok because it’s a good investment? Ok….

            Reply to Comment
          • Daniel

            I’m saying your comparison to the Palestinian aid is dishonest as it doesn’t bear a similarity in reason, goal and result. Also it’s a small part of Israel’s budget and Israel can exist without it. Can you say the same about the Palestinians ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Daniel

            You’re saying Israel doesn’t need weapons and technology to defend itself ? I beg to differ. And the strategic significance of Israel to the US is not a factor ? all the things I mentioned ?
            Hamas needs to shift their priorities and invest aid money in sewage treatment instead of terror tunnels, explosives and missiles.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            What Israel doesn’t need is weapons and technology to control an entire other people, hold a civilian population captive under brutal military control for 50 years, while it sneaks around slowly, inch by inch, taking whatever it thinks it can get away with without attracting too much attention. (What mobsters do.) The USA is subsidizing organized crime. If you want to try to say Israel pays off the police who are supposed to be watching them by bribing them with “strategic assets” then go ahead, but that is also what mobsters do.

            Reply to Comment
          • Daniel

            Ben, what are you talking about ? the weapons and technology are used to defend Isreal. The Iron Dome is used to protect Israeli cities from missiles fired by the Palestinians, not to mention against any other potential outer threats.
            Israel resides in a very volatile neighborhood, surrounded by countries who tried to attack it multiple times. The USA is subsidizing technology used to defend US troops as well not to mention how Israel is an important strategic ally to the US. As someone mentioned in the other posts, you basically ignore most of what I posted.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            I stand by everything I said. It’s organized crime by any honest accounting. The Palestinians are forcibly controlled by the Israeli military and military assault rifle-armed settlers. There is no getting around this or the criminal nature of it.

            Reply to Comment
          • Daniel

            But this has nothing to do with what I wrote. The guy destroying you down there is right, you ignore posts. And the Iron Dome is not defending Israel from missiles fired by Hamas and Islamic Jihad ? and the settlers are not part of the IDF, what are you talking about ? yes, there is an Occupation in the West Bank, there is also terrorism and unwilling Palestinian peace partners.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “The guy destroying you down there is right”

            Ido Geller, you poor desperate thing. We were watching this Daniel act with bemusement for a week or two now and intending to track it for a while longer before pouncing, but, c’mon.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Yes Ben, everyone who doesn’t agree with your pathetic clueless lying nonsense is me. How about addressing the posts where I showed in detail backed by evidence how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what you’re talking about instead of evading them ? does your paranoia affect your ability to acknowledge the fact that you’re clueless ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Sure, Ido, suuuure. Where’s Daniel? Is he going to come out now and support you? (chuckle)

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            You seem to go to great lengths to avoid addressing my posts, not dealing with the fact that I again refuted your clueless lying nonsense in detail backed by evidence you refuse to touch.
            This latest “strategy” seems as effective as the rest.

            Reply to Comment
          • Daniel

            You have my permission to email the site and check for yourself if I’m Ido. If the site admin needs my consent, they have it. I am enjoying reading your back and forth with Ido.

            Reply to Comment
          • Daniel

            John, you ignored what I posted about Hamas’ priorities.
            Show me when Israel stopped the electricity ‘because Hamas’, whatever that means. The ones who actually stopped funding infrastructure and salaries in Gaza are the PLO, the Palestinian leadership themselves, as part of their inner conflict with Hamas.

            Reply to Comment
      • Ben

        The supreme, hypocritical irony, the fakery, of a right wing Israeli lecturing people on “needy Africans” while his country, with his enthusiastic support, treats African refugees with cold indifference at best:
        https://972mag.com/tag/african-refugees/

        Just unbelievable. The mind boggles at the obtuseness and lack of self awareness of some Israelis. Does he think we can’t read?

        Reply to Comment
        • Ido

          Israel’s treatment of those immigrants is indeed abysmal, but why are you calling illegal work immigrants “refugees” ? only a tiny fraction of them are actual refugees. For starters they should be sent to all parts of Israel, not just South Tel-Aviv.
          Regarding Bruce’s post, comparing the aid given to Israel to the aid given to the Palestinians is so incredible ridiculous that I wouldn’t know where to begin.
          For starters almost all of it is spent on buying equipment from the US, the money goes back into the American economy. Israel is a world leader in technology and has shared this tech with the US military. Part of the aid is spent on joined research, etc.

          Reply to Comment
    2. Lewis from Afula

      So the fake nonsense nation needs more money.
      Who’d have thought it ?
      The best solution is for this criminal fabrication to dismantle itself.

      Reply to Comment
      • Bruce Gould

        @Lewis: Suppose the head of Hamas and Mahmoud Abbas get you on a conference call, and they say “Lewis, we’re at the end of our rope. We’ll do whatever you suggest. You just have to give us a detailed plan that tells us EXACTLY what we should do, and you have to tell us exactly what we can expect in return from Israel. We need a concrete roadmap.”

        What do you tell them?

        Reply to Comment
    3. Ben

      Far less fabricated, don’t you think, Lewis, than the utterly preposterous idea that the Book of Joshua, or whatever, entitles you, on ethnic-racial grounds, to establish an apartheid regime, brutally abuse people, steal massive amounts of land, engineer forced population transfer and commit mass murder? And swim in a swimming pool in Ariel all the while?

      Just stand back and look at the dehumanizing, supremacist arrogance that drip from the poisonous words of Halevy (Itshak Gordine) and Lewis from Afula. They accomplish their aims by coldly dehumanizing the non-Jewish other. It’s incredibly ugly.

      Bruce: Very good points. They’ll never answer you or if they do it won’t be a competent answer because they have none.

      Reply to Comment
      • Ido

        (part 1): Again with the fabrications, ignorance and lies. Everything I’m about to post is backed by evidence I’ve posted in the Facebook comments section.
        1. It’s not the “Book of Joshua”. It’s a historic fact. Which you can touch with your hands. Israel is the historic homeland of the Jewish people as proven by historic evidence. And Jews have kept a presence there throughout the centuries, even post diaspora.
        It’s the national birthplace of the Jewish people, their nationality and religion.
        To repeat what I already said to you about this nonsense: the Book of Joshua does not entitle anything. Israel’s existence and it’s ability to defend itself does.
        2. “on ethnic-racial grounds” – Right, just like Bulgaria, Croatia, Estonia, Finland, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Malaysia, Romania, Russia, Serbia..
        3. “establish an apartheid regime” – It’s not Apartheid no matter how many times you say this. The treatment of Arabs by the State of Israel can’t be compared in any way to the treatment of the black majority in South Africa under apartheid.
        Palestinians in the West Bank and in Gaza encounter hardships as a result of Israeli policies however these procedures and structures have been developed to promote security and to thwart potential terrorist action, not to persecute or segregate.
        Yes, separation exists. It also prohibits Jews by law from entering Palestinian controlled areas and roads. So there’s Apartheid against Jews ? it’s not Apartheid no matter how many times you lie about this.
        4. “steal massive amounts of land” – I’ll just repeat what I said before:
        The West Bank was captured from Jordan. At first the settlements were established by Israeli citizens with government approval. Many of these settlements were established on land you couldn’t exactly call “Palestinian”. The Palestinians never held sovereignty over the West Bank and rejected all promises of sovereignty over those areas.
        and some of the areas on which settlements were established, like Gush Etzion and Hevron, had Jewish communities that had existed sometimes for thousands of years before they were depopulated in Arab riots and by Arab armies in Israel’s war for independence. It is commonly claimed that the establishment of Israeli settlements constitutes a land grab, however this claim does not stand up to basic historic scrutiny:
        The West Bank is disputed territory whose status can only be determined through negotiations, the West Bank was not under the legitimate and recognized sovereignty of any state prior to the Six Day War.
        Israel’s presence in the West Bank began in 1967 as a direct result of the aggressive actions of Israel’s neighbors that forced Israel into a war of self-defense.

        more to follow.

        Reply to Comment
      • Ido

        (part 2): UN Security Council Resolution 242 places obligations on both sides (as does Resolution 338, adopted following the 1973 Yom Kippur War). 242 does not call for unilateral withdrawal from the territories. Despite this, the Palestinians focus exclusively on the call for an Israeli withdrawal, ignoring those clauses that place responsibilities on the other parties to the conflict.
        Resolution 242 does not require Israel to withdraw from all the territories gained as a result of the 1967 war, as the Arab regimes claim. Instead, the resolution deliberately restricts itself to calling for Israel’s withdrawal “from territories” while recognizing the right to live within secure and recognized boundaries.
        Israel’s presence in the territories continued after 1967 as the Arab regimes refused to negotiate with Israel (Khartoum Resolution) despite continuous and genuine Israeli offers of peace. For close to a quarter century, the Palestinians refused to abandon terrorism and calls for Israel’s demise and conduct peaceful negotiations.
        Many states hold onto territory taken in a war, particularly a war of self-defense until a peace treaty is negotiated.
        Also the people of Israel have a continuous centuries-old presence there. And the need to secure its strategic and economic center which the West Bank has a direct aim at.
        The settlement blocs Israel wishes to keep in an agreement with “Palestine” comprise only a few percent of the West Bank, and Israel is willing to transfer an equal amount of land in exchange for those settlements.
        5. “engineer forced population transfer”: right, nothing to do with a war of extermination the Arabs started, when they tried to destroy Israel and genocide the Jews. Population shifts are so rare during these types of wars, right ?
        never mind that a similar population transfer of Jews, more than the Palestinians, happened at around the same time when they fled or were expelled from Arab/Islamic countries.
        6. “commit mass murder” – Again with the ‘mass murder’ hyperbole. If you want to see actual mass murder of Palestinians, look at what the Syrians are doing to them, especially in Yarmouk. The estimated Palestinians dead since the beginning of the civil war is more than 4,000 with thousands others still unconfirmed but probably dead as well.
        To repeat what another poster told you: look at Wikipedia for some perspective (link above in the Facebook comments section).

        more to follow.

        Reply to Comment
      • Ido

        (part 3): “Just stand back and look at the dehumanizing, supremacist arrogance that drip from the poisonous words of Halevy (Itshak Gordine) and Lewis” – While both are not very bright to say the least, the point that billions have been poured unto the “Palestinian refugees”, quadruple the amount of aid that a real Syrian, Iraqi or African refugee receives from the UN, without much to show for it, is valid. They are perpetual refugees by design, the only such “refugees” in existence.
        The “palestinian refugees” is a good business, UNRWA employed about 30,000 people while the World Refugee Agency, which handles tens of millions of refugees worldwide, employs only 10,000 people.
        They are the only refugees which apparantly gain their status by genetics: the refugee status is passed on to succeeding generations and is unaffected by citizenship from other countries, in contrast to the definition of refugee status for every other refugee population in the world.
        For example the vast majority of the “Palestinian refugees” in Jordan, more than two million, are citizens of Jordan who identify as Palestinian. the UN and the Palestinians are working to perpetuate the Palestinian refugee problem and oppose any attempt to seek any kind of solution.
        It’s good business, their status as refugees ensures an endless flow of international aid. Aid that incidentally finds its way to Hamas and PA officials Swiss bank accounts.

        Reply to Comment
        • Bruce Gould

          @Ido, I’m reading David Shulman’s new book, “Freedom and Despair – Notes From the South Hebron Hills”. You live in Israel, Taayush goes out every week to try and keep the settlers from beating the crap out of the Palestinians. May I suggest you go out on a couple of outings and report back on what you observe?

          https://www.taayush.org/

          Reply to Comment
        • Tom

          @IDO : You still reapeating the same mistake regarding the UN resolution 242.
          Yes the English version is indefinite « Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict » but the french version is not ambigous at all ” Retrait des forces armées israéliennes des territoires occupés”. Both versions are of equal legal force.

          Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Read the resolution document on the UN site itself:
            http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/palestine/ch3.pdf

            “Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict”.
            Israel accepted it on the notion that the questions of withdrawal and refugees could be settled only through direct negotiations with the Arab States.
            As I recall you elegantly ignored the rest of my posts about this which directly addresses this: the obligations on both sides, the responsibilities on the other parties to the conflict, the right to live within secure and recognized boundaries, etc. Was that also an English translation addition ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Tom

            @Ido, don’t change the subject, I m not denying the responsability of the PA in this situation, just highlighting the fact than Israel did not apply the UN resolution 242, and the english version is ambigous, while the french one is very clear and refer to ALL territories.

            https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/R%C3%A9solution_242_du_Conseil_de_s%C3%A9curit%C3%A9_des_Nations_unies

            “Israel accepted it on the notion that the questions of withdrawal and refugees could be settled only through direct negotiations with the Arab States.”
            => The application of the UN 242 is not connected to the refugee issue (you mix with the UN 194 resolution that garanty the right of return of refugees, never appllied by Israel)
            => “Israel accepte it” ? probably by settling 600 000 people in the middle of the futur state of Palestine, by annexing east Jerusalem (future capital of the future palestinian state), by taking control of the water ressources, and by preventing any chance to have an independant palestinian state with souvereign border ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Why are you lying about me changing the subject ?
            Again: I linked to the UN’s own source directly. The organization who drafted the resolution. I quoted it, very clearly.
            Again: you ignored the rest of my post which further deals with the resolution, the obligations on both sides, the responsibilities on the other parties to the conflict, the right to live within secure and recognized boundaries.
            “Israel did not apply the UN resolution 242” – when have I ever said Israel applied it ? we already discussed this previously. It was the basis for diplomatic efforts to end Arab-Israeli conflicts and remains an important part in any negotiated resolution to the Arab-Israeli conflict.
            “the english version is ambigous” – so you’re saying the UN doesn’t know what the UN say. Email them and ask them to correct it.
            “refer to ALL territories” – which of course never going to happen as Israel will never withdraw to the exact pre 67′ border line:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2hZ6SlSqq0

            Answered your “The application of the UN 242” and “Israel accept it” in the bottom post where you asked it again.

            Reply to Comment
          • Tom

            @Ido : You obviously don’t read my answers and I will repeat it again, I m not denying the responsability of the PA in this situation” and the right from both parties to live to live within secure and recognized boundaries.

            “the english version is ambigous” – so you’re saying the UN doesn’t know what the UN say. Email them and ask them to correct it. => Again, no need for that, if there is an ambiguity in the english version, the french one (with equal juridical force) is very clear and ask the Withdrawal of Israel from all territories

            “refer to ALL territories” – which of course never going to happen as Israel will never withdraw to the exact pre 67′ border line: => So it means that Israel would never accept the UN 242 resolution. Anyway, Thanks for your nice propaganda movie ( a great one, from Likoud’s friends !), even if it can barely justify the military occupation , how it can justify the civil occupation (600 000 settlers in the middle of the future Palestinian state!!!) the annexation of East Jerusalem ? The transfer of palestinian in area C ? this is also for security reason ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “I m not denying the responsibility of the PA in this situation” – I mentioned this because it is also part of the resolution, meaning it’s not a unilateral withdrawal of Israel from all the West Bank. The obligations are on both sides. And also the right to live within secure and recognized boundaries, it doesn’t say all the West Bank, pre-67 borders.
            “the french one (with equal juridical force)” – the rest of the resolution clearly states how negotiations and secure and recognized boundaries are part of it, not unconditional full withdrawal to the pre-67 border. The UN resolution doesn’t clearly state that Israel must go to the armistice line. To quote the U.S. ambassador to the UN at the time, Arthur Goldberg, who clarified this point when he addressed the Security Council on November 15, 1967: “Historically, there have never been any secure and recognized boundaries in the area. Neither the armistice lines of 1949 nor the cease-fire lines of 1967 have answered this description.”

            In addition, resolution 194 reinforced this definition by stating that “final borders shall be defined through direct negotiations between the belligerent parties”. Is this also a bad French translation ?

            “So it means that Israel would never accept the UN 242 resolution” – nope, it means exactly what I said, that Israel will never withdraw exactly to the pre-67 border, the link I provided to you explains why that is.
            “Thanks for your nice propaganda movie” – right, Israel’s wish to continue and exist in defensible borders under Israel’s control in a hostile region is now “propaganda”. As the quote above states, the pre-67 border never was and never meant to be Israel’s border.
            “how it can justify the civil occupation..this is also for security reason ?” – it doesn’t, you’re ignoring large chunks of history which I already posted to you in the past, we went over this before. Some of it posted here for clueless Ben as well. Also as I said, Israel offered to withdraw from almost all of the West Bank. The Palestinians refused because their goal is the elimination of Israel and they see all of Israel, from the Sea to the River, as their “Palestine”. They are not exactly hiding this as I proved to you before.

            Reply to Comment
          • Tom

            @IDO : “So it means that Israel would never accept the UN 242 resolution” – nope, it means exactly what I said, that Israel will never withdraw exactly to the pre-67 border” ====> You really have a problem of reading and logic : The UN 242 resolution requests Israel to withdraw from ALL the territories (in the french version), Israel is not doing it, then Israel do not accept the UN 242 resolution (same as the UN resoltion 194,476, 478 and so many others https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel ).

            In all case, you always, always forget the question of the civil occupation… If Israel would like to have a souvereign palestinian state with secure and recognised borders. Why to install 600 000 settlers in the middle of the futur palestinian state ? Take control of the ressources (water in particular) ? Annex east Jerusalem (the future capital of the palestinian state) ? prevent development and transfer of population in area C ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “Israel to withdraw from ALL the territories (in the french version), Israel is not doing it” – I explained this about 3 times now. You simply ignore it including the quote and explanation why Israel will never will. Not repeating myself, the posts are there.
            “same as the UN resoltion 194,476, 478 and so many others” – Again I answered this to you before, resolutions basically criticizing Israel’s efforts to defend itself and the result of Israel doing so against several attempts of Arab nations to destroy Israel and to genocide the Jews.
            “always forget the question of the civil occupation” – I answered this here and in length in the previous article we discussed the same thing. Not going to repeat myself again.
            https://972mag.com/what-netanyahus-idea-of-peace-looks-like/137916/

            Reply to Comment
          • Tom

            @IDO : Changing the subject and hedge the answer is still the best you can do. It’s not because you’re still repeating hundreds time the same stupidities, without any logic, and pseudo propaganda “arguments” you will be able to convince someone (not me in all case).
            Anyway, I don’t want to waste my time anymore in this endless debate with you.
            Have a good day and stay in peace

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Again you claim I changed the subject when I didn’t. And avoiding to answer ? Why are you lying ?
            “still repeating hundreds time the same stupidities, without any logic, and pseudo propaganda “arguments”” – Again: which fact is wrong ? which evidence is wrong ? I’m repeating the same posts because you ask the exact same questions I answered before in detail, which you failed to refute or simply ignored.
            Why are you also ignoring the posts right here ? I answered in detail about Israel’s situation in the West Bank, explained this to you more than once. Why are you ignoring this ? is the quote or details about the armistice line and border decided by negotiations, any of it, are not accurate ?
            The Palestinian leadership don’t consider all of Israel as theirs ? both Hamas and Fatah ? go right ahead.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Good move Tom (not wasting your time in endless pseudo”debate” with this person). Whenever you present someone like this with the unavoidable truth they scurry back behind slippery misleading pseudo-facts (“Israel offered to withdraw from almost all of the West Bank) or good ol’ fear-mongering, feigned helplessness and anti-Semitizing, the aggressive occupier as helpless victim schtick, the “we need the hills of Samaria to defend ourselves” in 2018 nonsense, the ultra hackneyed oldie-but-a-goodie “The Palestinians refused because their goal is the elimination of Israel and they see all of Israel, from the Sea to the River blah blah blah.” The latter really I would characterize as Ido’s specialty. He’s always got that lighter than air cream pie waiting behind his back to plant in one’s face.
            As I told Daniel, above, today, the sad truth is that the truest comparison actually is organized crime. Including how gangsters corrupt, intimidate and buy off the police (EU and USA).

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “Good move” – right, if you want some advice on how to avoid addressing posts and ignoring evidence, take advice from the master.
            “scurry back behind slippery misleading pseudo-facts” – why are you lying when the posts are right there ? what ‘pseudo-facts’ ? which ones ? address the posts like I do with your clueless nonsense. How about addressing the posts down there where I refuted your clueless lying nonsense ? which you to this moment refuse to address. Backed by evidence you ignore.
            “Israel offered to withdraw from almost all of the West Bank” – How is this ‘slippery misleading pseudo-facts’ ? please explain this lying idiotic nonsense. So you had no clue about the Camp David Summit or the 2008 Peace Summit ? added evidence for both in the Facebook comments.
            “or good ol’ fear-mongering, feigned helplessness and anti-Semitizing” – why are you lying when the posts are right there ? which fact is wrong ? go ahead. Spewing this lying nonsense without anything to back it up makes you look like a bigger joke, if that’s possible.
            “we need the hills of Samaria to defend ourselves” – and lying some more. Not what I said, you’re talking nonsense again. See the link I posted for Tom.
            “the ultra hackneyed oldie-but-a-goodie” – I literally proved this to you about 50 times, the Palestinian leadership refusal to accept the legitimacy of Israel, their calls for Israel’s demise, how they see all of Israel as theirs. Backed by evidence you either refused to touch or lied about it in the most hilarious way I’ve ever seen (“those are fake”, “the Palestinian leaders are not that important or influential”, your words). You mistakenly believed PLO accepted Israel’s legitimacy and removed the call for its elimination, I proved to you you were factually incorrect, you had no idea what you were talking about. Are you going to lie about this as well ?
            that was hilarious, especially when you claimed it wasn’t about the PLO charter when the entire thing was specifically about the PLO charter, showing how much you were clueless.
            “The latter really I would characterize as Ido’s specialty” – why are you denying such a simple fact ? they are not hiding it. I proved this to you repeatedly and you either ignore it or lie about it. Is the official Palestinian symbols showing all of Israel as “Palestine” too subtle for you ?
            is the Palestinian leadership yelling in your clueless face how all of Israel is “Palestine” too subtle for you ? why are you still lying about this ?
            “the truest comparison actually is organized crime” – sure if you as usual ignore basic history, facts and reality. why are you completely ignoring the actions and goals of the Palestinians themselves ? you think the Palestinian terrorism has nothing to do with Israel’s actions ? why do you treat the Palestinians as children with no responsibility for their own actions ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Tom

            @Ido : which fact are wrong ? I will raise just a single one : The UN 242 is requesting the Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from ALL territories occupied, so yes, Israel has never “accepted it” as you said…

            “you’re hedging the question” : Yes totally, still waiting your fabulous arguments to justify the civil occupation in the light of the UN 242 resolution that give the right for both parties to live in a souvereign state with secure and recognised borders (600 000 settlers in the middle of the future Palestinian state!!!) the annexation of East Jerusalem ? The transfer of palestinian in area C ? the control of natural ressources ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “The UN 242 is requesting the Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from ALL territories occupied” – and as I proved to you in detail this was not the case and was never going to be the case.
            “so yes, Israel has never “accepted it” as you said” – And I explained to you why that is. In detail in the posts above.

            “to justify the civil occupation” – Again: answered this in detail in the following article comments section which you again ignore, about the historic context and reasons behind the settlements. Also you ignore again how Israel offered to withdraw from the majority of the West Bank.
            https://972mag.com/what-netanyahus-idea-of-peace-looks-like/137916/

            Reply to Comment
          • Tom

            @ Ido : “The UN 242 is requesting the Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from ALL territories occupied” – and as I proved to you in detail this was not the case and was never going to be the case. => You have proved nothing ! Please read the UN resolution in french language, it’s clearly mention than Israel has to withdraw from ALL the territories. That’s a fact you can’t deny !

            “so yes, Israel has never “accepted it” as you said” – And I explained to you why that is. In detail in the posts above. => are you admiting you were wrong when you said “Israel has accepted it”

            Also you ignore again how Israel offered to withdraw from the majority of the West Bank. => I don’t, but if the plan that has been proposed has been refused, does it justify civil occupation ?? again again and again, why to settle 600 000 settlers in the middle of the future state of Palestine, if at the end you want to move it ?? when you see how much it was difficult to move only 8 000 people in Gaza, please immagine with 600 000 people !!!

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “You have proved nothing !” – If you insist I’ll just copy/paste it again: the rest of the resolution clearly states how negotiations and secure and recognized boundaries are part of it, not unconditional full withdrawal to the pre-67 border. The UN resolution doesn’t clearly state that Israel must go to the armistice line. To quote the U.S. ambassador to the UN at the time, Arthur Goldberg, who clarified this point when he addressed the Security Council on November 15, 1967: “Historically, there have never been any secure and recognized boundaries in the area. Neither the armistice lines of 1949 nor the cease-fire lines of 1967 have answered this description.”
            In addition, resolution 194 reinforced this definition by stating that “final borders shall be defined through direct negotiations between the belligerent parties”. Is this also a bad French translation ?

            “So it means that Israel would never accept the UN 242 resolution” – nope, it means exactly what I said, that Israel will never withdraw exactly to the pre-67 border, the link I provided to you explains why that is.

            “Please read the UN resolution in french language” – Again: I linked directly to the UN’s own site. Their own document about this. In addition to the rest of the information I’m again repeating here. Why are you again ignoring this ?
            “withdraw from ALL the territories” – as I explained several times now, not going to happen.
            “That’s a fact you can’t deny !” – besides linking to the UN document itself and explaining in detail how a full pre-67 withdrawal was never going to happen.
            “are you admiting you were wrong when you said “Israel has accepted it” ” – Jesus Christ.. Again: I said Israel accepted it on the notion that the question of withdrawal and refugees could be settled only through direct negotiations with the Arab States. The post is right there.
            Do you understand ? Israel will withdraw as part of a negotiations process, how many times do I need to repeat this for you to grasp this ?
            “does it justify civil occupation” – if you think Israel will unilaterally withdraw from the West Bank, the area with a direct aim at the economic and strategic heart of Israel, giving the Palestinians the benefit of the doubt, you are out of your mind.
            “why to settle 600 000 settlers in the middle of the future state of Palestine” – 4th time: I explained this in detail in the link I posted in the previous post. The historic context and reasons. Why are you again ignoring this ?
            “please immagine with 600 000 people” – that’s what a negotiations process is for, if only the other party was interested in the continual existence of a viable Israel and not see all of Israel as their “Palestine”.

            Reply to Comment
          • Tom

            Ido : “Please read the UN resolution in french language” – Again: I linked directly to the UN’s own site. Their own document about this. In addition to the rest of the information I’m again repeating here. Why are you again ignoring this ? => because you’re proving nothing !! the french version of the UN resolution 242 is requesting from Israel to withdraw from ALL the territories ! Stop lying Ido !

            “please immagine with 600 000 people” – that’s what a negotiations process is for, if only the other party was interested in the continual existence of a viable Israel and not see all of Israel as their “Palestine”.
            => negociation process is not taking unilateral actions illegal regarding the international law (transfering civil population in occupied territories, annexing East Jerusalem)
            => ANd what about all the map where Israel is marked from the Jordan valley to the sea, why you’re not fighting against it also ? If Israel want a two state solution on the green line border, why they have settled 600 000 settlers in the east side of the green line, you still not answer the question !!

            Reply to Comment
          • Tom

            Ido : You can copy paste hundred time, the same stupid arguments, you’re not proving anything, it’s till supidities

            “Please read the UN resolution in french language” – Again: I linked directly to the UN’s own site. Their own document about this. In addition to the rest of the information I’m again repeating here. Why are you again ignoring this ?
            => because you obviously did not read the french version of the UN resolution 242 that is requesting from Israel to withdraw from ALL the territories !

            “please immagine with 600 000 people” – that’s what a negotiations process is for, if only the other party was interested in the continual existence of a viable Israel and not see all of Israel as their “Palestine”.
            => negociation process is not taking unilateral actions illegal regarding the international law (transfering civil population in occupied territories, annexing East Jerusalem)
            => ANd what about all the map where Israel is marked from the Jordan valley to the sea, why you’re not fighting against it also ? If Israel want a two state solution on the green line border, why they have settled 600 000 settlers in the east side of the green line, you still not answer the question !!

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “because you’re proving nothing” – um, Again: how am I proving nothing when I link to the UN own file on their own site ? when the rest of the resolution text says very clearly how the withdrawal would be decided in negotiations, by both sides,
            on secure and recognized boundaries, not specifically explicitly the pre-67 border. Not unconditional full withdrawal to the pre-67 border. If you finally decide not to ignore the rest of the resolution you’ll see that it doesn’t clearly state that Israel must go to the armistice line and as I said 10 times Israel has no intention of doing this for obvious reasons, which I also showed you.
            Again, To quote the U.S. ambassador to the UN at the time, Arthur Goldberg, who clarified this point when he addressed the Security Council on November 15, 1967: “Historically, there have never been any secure and recognized boundaries in the area. Neither the armistice lines of 1949 nor the cease-fire lines of 1967 have answered this description.”
            How on earth is this still difficult for you to grasp ? in addition, resolution 194 reinforced this by stating that “final borders shall be defined through direct negotiations between the belligerent parties”. Is this too difficult to understand ?
            “the french version of the UN resolution 242 is requesting from Israel to withdraw from ALL the territories” – and the official UN document on their own site does not specify ‘ALL territories’ and neither the rest of the resolution itself.
            “Stop lying Ido” – nothing I can do to make you grasp something I’ve been repeating 15 times, if you’re too dense to get it. Email the UN and tell them to change their own document and erase the rest of the resolution verifying what I have been repeating for 15 times and to alter resolution 195 which says the same, and travel back in time to 1967 to inform the the U.S. ambassador to the UN how the french have a different take on the resolution. Maybe it’ll change his mind.
            “negociation process is not taking unilateral actions illegal regarding the international law” – Again: addressed the history and context of the West Bank settlements, the actual legal status of the land in question, etc, in detail with you before. I linked to it twice now above. How many times do I need to repeat this ?
            negotiations will determine which settlements stay under Israel’s control, which settlements will be removed.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “And what about all the map where Israel is marked from the Jordan valley to the sea, why you’re not fighting against it also” – what the hell are you talking about ? what map ? you are a bit confused, the ones who see the land as theirs from the River to the Sea are the Palestinians, they say so openly and very, very clearly.
            “a two state solution on the green line border” – Again: the border will be decided in direct negotiations involving the 2 parties, the 67′ border was never meant to be Israel’s border, it was a result of a war where the Arab armies tried to destroy Israel and genocide the Jews.
            “they have settled 600 000 settlers in the east side of the green line, you still not answer the question !!” – why are you lying ? I have and I linked to the article where I explained this to you in detail before. The history and context of the settlements, the actual legal status of the West Bank, etc.

            Reply to Comment
          • Tom

            @Ido : I’ve answered you an hundred time, but you still always repeating and copy paste the same stupidities, still always hedging the questions. Stay happy in your propaganda lies, bye.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “I’ve answered you an hundred time” – and I answered everything you asked, explained in detail everything backed by evidence, multiple times. You refuse to address my posts, again.
            “copy paste the same stupidities” – which part isn’t true ? which part isn’t a fact ? why are you still ignoring the rest of the resolution ? I repeated this 4 times now. Why are you ignoring how I explained the West Bank settlements context and history ? I linked to the same conversation we had twice. You ignored it then as well.
            I repeat everything because reality and facts did not change.
            “Stay happy in your propaganda lies” – keep lying to yourself while ignoring basic historic facts and reality. Keep calling basic common sense backed by decades of history “propaganda”. Lie to yourself as much as you like, reality isn’t going to change.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            @IDO: All of the above including your reply to me is a collection of the usual wearisome, worn out JPost-level cliches and deceptions salted with “backed up” (Lol) ad hominems, and as Tom says, hedging. Hedgehogging. Nichts Neues.

            In regards to organized crime: The occupation has the hallmarks of organized crime. Seriously. The settlers are law breaking gangsters who act with impunity and swagger. The Israel police and IDF are the bought-off, intimidated cops pretending to enforce anything against these gangsters and feigning incompetence, all the while, with great expertise and competence, suppressing the gangsters’ victims. If that is not organized crime, what is?

            We do not “address” your posts as you would like them “addressed” because we do not chase hedgehogs or rabbits down rabbit holes, we nail them in the open field (LoL).

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            @Ben, “collection of the usual wearisome, worn out JPost-level cliches” – and you’re still lying about this, amazing. Refuted your nonsense in detail, explained it like to a child, backed by evidence, multiple times and you refuse to touch it. Why are you lying like this ? do you honestly think this does anything positive for your “argument” ?
            how can you not realize it makes you look like a bigger joke ? if that’s possible. For example in the above post you called Israel’s offers regarding the West Bank “slippery misleading pseudo-facts”, I proved you wrong, the evidence is right there in the Facebook comments section, why are you again evading it ? I caught you lying again, address it. Why are you behaving like a child ?
            ““backed up” (Lol) ad hominem” – Again: the evidence tefuting your clueless nonsense is right there, in the Facebook comments section and in the posts below which you to this moment refuse to address. And for the 567th time: I addressed your clueless nonsense in detail, I refuted your clueless “arguments”, open a dictionary and see what ‘ad hominem’ is and stop embarassing yourself.
            “and as Tom says” – and as Tom ignores my posts and evidence like you you mean.
            “In regards to organized crime” – Again: why are you completely ignoring the actions and goals of the Palestinians themselves ? you think the Palestinian terrorism has nothing to do with Israel’s actions ? why do you treat the Palestinians as children with no responsibility for their own actions ?
            And as I have said multiple times, I’m in favor of Israel’s withdrawal from the West Bank as part of an actual negotiations process. Currently the Palestinian leadership is still banking on Israel’s demise and they see all of Israel as theirs, as I proved to you about 457 times, so it doesn’t seem as a viable option until they come to term with the fact that Israel is not going away.
            “We do not “address” your posts as you would like them “addressed” because we do not chase hedgehogs or rabbits” – that’s the most hilarious idiotic excuse a child could have come up with, not surprised you did as well. I literally proved you wrong in detail backed by evidence you still refuse to touch. All posted right there, the evidence is right there. Why are you still lying about this ?
            We both know why you can’t, the fact that you come up with these hilariously idiotic excuses all the time adds a lot to your credibility. Some of your past hits: “Your evidence is fake!”, “the Palestinian leadership is not that important or influential”, “I discounted your posts!”. I’m sure I missed a few gems.
            “we nail them in the open field (LoL)” – I have no idea why you think lying like this does anything positive for you. I even numbered your clueless nonsense below to make it easier for you. Start with #1, it’s all right there, how you don’t seem to have a clue about the Jews’ historic ties to their own ancestral homeland, Israel.

            Reply to Comment
          • Tom

            @IDO : “what map ? ” Just write “touristics maps of Israel” on Google and you will see a lot of maps of Israel from the Jordan Valley to the Mediterranean sea (some of them published by the Tourist Israeli Authority).

            On the contrary, regarding the border, the PA position has changed in 1988, when the PA has recognised Israel on the green line border.

            “The delineation and demarcation of agreed upon borders are central to reaching an end of conflict on the basis of the two-state solution. Our position on borders has undergone a significant transformation since 1948. Our national movement once laid claim to its rights over all of historic Palestine, an area that includes modern day Israel. Since 1988, however, in the interest of achieving peace and ending the conflict, we limited our national aspirations to statehood to 22 percent of historic Palestine, seeking a state of our own in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, with East Jerusalem as its capital (that is, all of the territory occupied by Israel in 1967).”

            http://www.mofa.pna.ps/en/borders/

            Reply to Comment
          • Tom

            And on the other side, please check what you can find on the Israel Ministry of Foreign affair. It clearly show Israel from the jordan valley to the mediterranean see, excluding Gaza. No mention of “palestinian territory” just Judea and Samaria, no green line. When they calculating the area of Israel they included West Bank and Golan.

            http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/AboutIsrael/Maps/Pages/Topographical-map-of-Israel.aspx

            http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/AboutIsrael/Maps/Pages/Israeli-Agriculture.aspx

            http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/AboutIsrael/Maps/Pages/Jerusalem.aspx

            http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/AboutIsrael/Maps/Pages/Nature-Reserves-and-National-Parks.aspx

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            @Tom, “Just write “touristics maps of Israel” on Google and you will see a lot of maps of Israel from the Jordan Valley to the Mediterranean sea (some of them published by the Tourist Israeli Authority” – I have no idea what the hell you’re talking about.
            Is this some kind of reference to your nonsense claiming all of “Palestine” was some giant Arab town ? and all the uninhabited areas didn’t actually exist ? I believed I addressed this idiocy in detail about 10 times.
            “PA position has changed in 1988, when the PA has recognised Israel on the green line border” – Thank you for posting this, showing how much you have no idea about this.
            This of course contradicts article 2 of the 1968 PLO Charter, the organization which the current Palestinian Prime Minister heads: “Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.”
            The boundaries of the British Mandate, created in 1922 under the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine, encompassed the territory that is today called Israel, Jordan, West Bank and Gaza.
            Article 25 of the Mandate restricted the reconstitution of the Jewish National Home to an area extending to the Jordan River, 22% of the territory comprised in the Mandate.
            Your link, from the Palestinian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, is deceptive and misleading. And I didn’t even get to the ‘Phased Plan’ strategy.
            http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/20726

            I provided your with lots of evidence showing how the Palestinian leadership, both factions, consider all of Israel as their “Palestine”. Would you like me to copy/paste them again ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Tom

            @Ido : “I have no idea what the hell you’re talking about.” I m talking about all the maps the ministry of tourism is publishing with no mention of palestinian territories, but a large map of Israel from the Jordan to the sea (without Gaza). I’ve also attached some link you can find on the israeli ministry of foreign affair that show Israel with “Judea and Samaria”.

            “PA position has changed in 1988, when the PA has recognised Israel on the green line border” – Thank you for posting this, showing how much you have no idea about this. This of course contradicts article 2 of the 1968 PLO Charter, the organization which the current Palestinian Prime Minister heads: “Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.”
            => Are you aware than the year 1968 is before the year 1988 ? So if you want to prove me than the official position of the PA has not changed since 1988 (as written in their official foreigner affair website), why are you talking about a charter made before the recognisation of Israel by the PA ?????

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “Palestinian water Authority” – thank you for proving my point as ‘Israel’ is nowhere to be seen on the map. It’s a Palestinian cities map, no mention of ‘Israel’ or its borders.
            This is not unique to the Palestinians. In Egypt, a country which signed a peace treaty with Israel, you won’t find ‘Israel’ on any map. Still hard for them to come to terms with Israel’s existence.
            “Ministry of Local Goverment” – link doesn’t have a map. No ‘Israel’ in sight. Google translate the Arabic text to English and you’ll see how they refer to the area of ​​historic Palestine and it’s size. The English site is more misleading, only refers to it as ‘Concerning the area’ and describes it as 27,000 sq. km.
            This also includes Israel. Do you understand how you just proved that I’m right ? I’ve seen the 27 thousands kilometers thing before, they teach it to their kids. I’ll add a link with the video from the official Palestinian Authority TV station in the Facebook comments section.

            “And on the other side, please check what you can find on the Israel Ministry of Foreign affair” – added a link to their maps section where Gaza and the West Bank Palestinian territories are very present.
            “No mention of “palestinian territory”” – As you see from my links in the Facebook comments section, that’s not the case. I’ll add other examples from other official Israeli government sources and prominent websites in Israel.
            “When they calculating the area of Israel they included West Bank and Golan” –
            First link: it’s a topographic map. Gaza, the West Bank and Golan are clearly marked in a different color than the rest of Israel.
            Second link: again not a border map, it’s an agriculture listing map and Gaza, the West Bank and Golan are clearly marked in a different color.
            Third link: you’re joking right ? that’s not Israel’s map, that’s a neighborhood listing of Jerusalem. Currently all of it is part of Israel.
            Fourth link: Again not a border listing map and Gaza, the West Bank and the Golan are clearly marked in a different color.
            Show me one official Hamas or Fatah Palestinian emblem or map of “Palestine” where ‘Israel’ is present. Not a cities map of the Palestinian water company. A borders map.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “Are you aware than the year 1968 is before the year 1988” – are you aware that your link is deceptive and misleading as I showed you ? see the link I provided.
            “So if you want to prove me than the official position of the PA has not changed since 1988” – nope, they still see all of Israel as theirs, still call for it’s elimination. Their charters didn’t change regarding their intentions.
            They did accept Israel’s existence when they signed the Oslo Accord but as Arafat is on record saying (see the links in the Facebook comments section) it was a deceit, fits in line with his “Phased Plan”. You had no idea about any of this did you ?

            “why are you talking about a charter made before the recognisation of Israel by the PA” – because to this day they refuse to amend it, to remove the parts calling for Israel’s elimination. See the evidence in the Facebook comments section.

            “Israel-PLO Recognition-Exchange of Letters between PM Rabin and Chairman Arafat-Sept 9- 1993” – Thank you again. Posting this link shows how much you have no idea what you’re talking about.
            Yes, the PLO promised to remove the articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel’s right to exist but they never did. Do you understand ? they never followed on their promise. Another clueless ‘Useful Idiot’ made the same mistake as you, I educated him as well.
            I believe he’s still in deep denial about this. See the proof for what I’m saying in the Facebook comments section.

            Reply to Comment
          • Tom

            @Ido : You’re really have a problem of understanding. The Ministry of Local Government, doesn’t claim over the Israel as part of what they call “Palestine state”, if you look at the list of palestinian place, you won’t find a single one in the state of Israel. The PWA maps clearly mention only west bank and Gaza, and the governerates. On the contrary, go to visit the touristical web site information, including all the “touristical site in judea and samaria.

            https://www.haaretz.com/1.5118339

            On the Israeli side, we don’t have the same interpretation about the big dark line that is delimiting the Israel (from the Jordan to the sea) and the other countries around, for me it’s a border, and Gaza is excluded from it.

            Yes it’s a Jerusalem maps showing Jerusalem as unified, so yet it’s an illegal map regarding the international laws, and against the principle of a two state solution based on the green line border with east Jerusalem as the capital of the future palestinian state.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “You’re really have a problem of understanding” – why are you ignoring the evidence I provided ? why are you ignoring what I posted about this ? about the Palestinians refusal to accept Israel’s existence ?
            about how they see all of Israel as theirs ? on their official maps and symbols no less ? I explained why your evidence proved my point, you refuted yourself, you simply ignore this, why is that ?
            “doesn’t claim over the Israel as part of what they call “Palestine state”” – Like I said, maybe you didn’t understand me: they don’t recognize the legitimacy of Israel. The country ‘Israel’ does not appear on any of their maps or symbols, when they mention “Palestine”, see your own links as I proved, they mention all the land from the Sea to the River, this of course include Israel itself. See the links in the Facebook comments section.
            “you won’t find a single one in the state of Israel” – Again: not what I said, I said the Palestinian leadership doesn’t accept the legitimacy of Israel and see all of Israel as theirs and I provided quite a lot of evidence for this and I refuted your evidence about this.
            “The PWA maps clearly mention only west bank and Gaza, and the governerates” – it doesn’t acknowledge the existence of Israel, ‘Israel’ does not appear in any map and when in your own link they describe their ‘Palestine’ they listed the entire area from the River to the Sea, see the evidence you ignored.
            See the proof for everything I said in the Facebook comments section.
            “touristical web site information” – as my links show you the Palestinian areas are very much visible in Israeli government official sites maps and many other prominent Israeli sites. I can provide you with many other examples.
            That’s a tourists attractions map, there are maps on the same site where the West Bank and Gaza areas are very visible and marked. GoIsrael, The Official Website of Tourism to Israel show the Palestinian controlled areas very clearly.
            “Yes it’s a Jerusalem maps showing Jerusalem as unified” – because at this moment it is. Like it or not, that’s the situation on the ground.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “illegal map regarding the international laws” – you’re moving the goal posts, we were discussing if the Palestinian leadership accepts the legitimacy and existence of Israel. If they still call for Israel’s elimination and see all of Israel, from the River to the Sea, as theirs.
            Jerusalem is a complex topic, all of it is currently under Israel’s jurisdiction and administration. I’ll gladly discuss it with you when you finally address the posts and evidence I provided.
            “the principle of a two state solution” – it’s an idea to a conflict resolution, two states do not exist yet.
            “based on the green line border with east Jerusalem as the capital of the future palestinian state” – you seem to be under the wrong impression that the two states solution negotiations was done and a peace treaty was signed, that it was already implemented. You realize that’s not the case, right ? and how about addressing my posts and the evidence you just ignored ? where I proved you wrong ? for example on your link about the Palestinians accepting Israel’s existence and amending their charter which never happened ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Tom

            @Ido : refuted your evidence about this. => What evidence did you show ??? You only brings propaganda website as your only source of information, that took quotation out of their context, but refusing to check the official statements of Officials, or the official webstite I ve sent to you.

            SO yes, Even if Palestine is considered by a lot of palestinian as the historic Mandatory Palestine, and they continue to use the arabs name of Ashkenon, Ashdod, Tel Aviv, Beer Sheva etc. they continue to ask for the application of intenational law UN 194 resolution and the right of return of Palestinian. Regarding the borders, from 1988, the OLP has recognised Israel on the green line border. That is the reality. On September 9, 1993, Arafat sent a letter to Prime Minister Rabin, in which he stated unequivocally that the PLO recognizes the right of Israel to exist in peace and security; and accepts UN Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338.

            https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-when-will-you-recognize-us-1.5333475

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            What evidence did you show ???” – seriously .. ? um, see the Facebook comments section ?
            “You only brings propaganda website as your only source of information” – so you’re saying the Palestinians in the evidence I posted are actors ? the PLO charter articles are fake ? then address it, refute it if it’s just propaganda and not the truth and those are Israelis in wigs pretending to be Hamas/PLO officials. I refuted your wrong claims based on your own links, I explained this in detail, why are you ignoring this ? why are you ignoring the posts and evidence ?
            I proved you had no idea the Palestinians didn’t actually amended their charter as promised and it was never changed, they still call for the elimination of Israel, they still don’t accept Israel’s legitimacy, they are saying it themselves, how on earth is this out of context ? they are still banking on Israel’s demise for some reason.
            I removed the last scene where they yell “Not!” at the camera ? please explain this idiotic nonsense.
            “refusing to check the official statements of Officials” – what are you talking about ? I refuted your posts based on your own information. The posts are right there, you want me to copy/paste them again ?
            “or the official webstite I ve sent to you” – I addressed everything you posted, I provided evidence for everything I said. Address it, go right ahead.
            “Even if Palestine is considered by a lot of palestinian as the historic Mandatory Palestine” – Even ? are you joking ? the Palestinians’ own leadership, both factions, admit this, it’s official guiding directive of their actions. They admit it, they do, not Israeli actors pretending to be them. It’s all right there.
            “and they continue to use the arabs name of Ashkenon, Ashdod, Tel Aviv, Beer Sheva etc” – yes because they don’t accept the legitimacy of Israel as I proved to you, repeatedly. All Israel is “Palestine”.
            “they continue to ask for the application of intenational law UN 194 resolution” – which is ending Israel, turning it into a de-facto another Arab state. Thank you but we’ll pas.
            “and the right of return of Palestinian” – thank you but we prefer not to commit suicide on a national scale.
            “from 1988, the OLP has recognised Israel on the green line border” – yes, as a means to an end, as I explained in detail backed by evidence you still ignore to this moment.
            “On September 9, 1993, Arafat sent a letter to Prime Minister Rabin” – and I proved to you this was what they promised but never happened, they never removed the sections in question about Israel, they never removed the parts calling for Israel’s end.
            Why are you ignoring this again ?
            “PLO recognizes the right of Israel to exist in peace and security” – why are you again ignoring the evidence refuting this ? it’s posted in the Facebook comments section.
            I can’t read paywalled Ha’aretz links. From the first paragraph I see they repeat the same naive nonsense you do, now I know where you picked it up.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Read the first paragraph of your Ha’aretz link. The Palestinians never recognized Israel as the Jewish State, meaning the legitimate homeland of the Jewish people. They refuse to accept it because to this day PA figures including Abbas himself claim the Jews don’t have religious or historical claims to the the land of Israel.
            This is of course beyond idiotic to anyone who knows basic history. They refuse to do so because their leadership never abandoned the demand for the return of the Palestinians to “Palestine,” that is, the entire State of Israel, effectively ending it. Turning it into a e-facto another Arab country, to establish a Palestinian state between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, by flooding the State of Israel with Muslim Palestinians as part of the so-called “return” of the Palestinian refugees.
            For the Jews, Palestinian recognition of the State of Israel as the national homeland of the Jews means the end of the conflict. They want to be sure that a Palestinian state bordering on Israel is the Palestinians’ final demand and that they accept the fact of Israel’s existence. As you see from the evidence I provided, that’s currently not the case.
            as soon as the Palestinians recognize Israel as a Jewish state, their claims and the demand for all of the land of Palestine, from the River to the Sea will no longer be considered legitimate. The Palestinians demand a state for themselves, and also demand to settle their citizens in Israel, the neighboring Jewish state.
            The core of the problem is that Palestinian recognition of Israel as the state of the Jewish People would not only end the dream of the return to “Palestine”, but also of the dream of ending Israel.

            Reply to Comment
          • Tom

            @Ido : I don’t understand how blind you are, even when I bring you the evidences from official palestinian ministries, official letter reprensenting the PA position, you’re still denying it. The arab peace initiative, and the Paris conference, has again and again reafirm the green line border as the future state of Palestine, living side by side with Israel.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “I bring you the evidences from official palestinian ministries” – and I used that same evidence to show you how you’re wrong and I provided lots of evidence in the Facebook comments section backing what I’m saying. You are ignoring both, why is that ?
            “official letter reprensenting the PA position” – and I proved to you how these letters promising to amend the PLO charter to recognize Israel’s legitimacy and remove the call for Israel’s elimination never actually became reality and the Palestinians never kept their word. Why are you ignoring this as if it never happened ?
            “you’re still denying it” – I have no idea why you’re lying to yourself like this, why you’re simply ignoring my posts and evidence refuting your posts, why you haven’t replied to large sections of my previous posts.
            “The arab peace initiative, and the Paris conference, has again and again reafirm the green line border” – so I’ll add the fact that you had no idea the API also calls for the return of the Palestinian “refugees” to Israel, effectively turning it into an Arab state. Never, ever going to happen.
            “as the future state of Palestine, living side by side with Israel.” – I provided proof you to this moment simply ignore about the Palestinian leadership, both factions, that this is not the case. Why are you ignoring this ? you didn’t answer my questions, are those Israeli actors pretending to be the top PLO and Hamas leaders ? can you find me a Palestinian borders map where ‘Israel’ is actually mentioned ? etc.
            Saying childish nonsense like “this is all propaganda” is ridiculous. Which evidence is incorrect ? out of context ? go ahead, address it.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (take #2): “I bring you the evidences from official palestinian ministries” – and I used that same evidence to show you how you’re wrong and I provided lots of evidence in the Facebook comments section backing what I’m saying. You are ignoring both, why is that ?
            “official letter reprensenting the PA position” – and I proved to you how these letters promising to amend the PLO charter to recognize Israel’s legitimacy and remove the call for Israel’s elimination never actually became reality and the Palestinians never kept their word. Why are you ignoring this as if it never happened ?
            “you’re still denying it” – I have no idea why you’re lying to yourself like this, why you’re simply ignoring my posts and evidence refuting your posts, why you haven’t replied to large sections of my previous posts.
            “The arab peace initiative, and the Paris conference, has again and again reafirm the green line border” – so I’ll add the fact that you had no idea the API also calls for the return of the Palestinian “refugees” to Israel, effectively turning it into an Arab state. Never, ever going to happen.
            “as the future state of Palestine, living side by side with Israel.” – I provided proof you to this moment simply ignore about the Palestinian leadership, both factions, that this is not the case. Why are you ignoring this ? you didn’t answer my questions, are those Israeli actors pretending to be the top PLO and Hamas leaders ? can you find me a Palestinian borders map where ‘Israel’ is actually mentioned ? etc.
            Saying childish nonsense like “this is all propaganda” is ridiculous. Which evidence is incorrect ? out of context ? go ahead, address it.

            Reply to Comment
          • Tom

            I’ve adressed you hundred of times, but it’s useless, you always repating the same lies and mistakes. I can copy paste it hundred time too, the PA has recognised Israel on the green line border. They sign treaties, they coopoerate with the state of Israel,and yes the PA is not claiming soveirnity on the state of Israel anymore, period. If you still lying regarding this fact, I can’t do anything for you.

            “The arab peace initiative, and the Paris conference, has again and again reafirm the green line border” – so I’ll add the fact that you had no idea the API also calls for the return of the Palestinian “refugees” to Israel, effectively turning it into an Arab state. Never, ever going to happen. => Of course, I know the PA is still requesting the application of the UN resolution 194, and ? You may disgree with that but what is the link ? WHat are the border proposed for the future state of Palestine ? Did it included the west side of the Green line ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “I’ve adressed you hundred of times” – why are you lying ? I refuted your posts and you simply ignored it, like you simply ignored the links I provided to back it up.
            You just ignored it again in the previous post, when I refuted your evidence from official Palestinian sources (which don’t show ‘Israel’ anywhere or describe the entire land as “Palestine” which also includes Israel as theirs) and the links which proved what I said about maps in Israel showing the Palestinian controlled areas.
            And your ‘official letter representing the PA position’ when I proved this, very clearly, how they never acted on their promise to accept Israel’s legitimacy or remove the sections calling for Israel’s demise. Why are you ignoring this ? why are you lying about not ignoring this ?
            “you always repating the same lies and mistakes” – what lies ? what mistakes ? Again: prove it. Point it. Back up your claims like I did with mine. Go right ahead.
            “I can copy paste it hundred time too” – which of the evidence I provided is a lie ? incorrect ? out of context ? you so far refused to address it, why is that ?
            “the PA has recognised Israel on the green line border” – as I proved to you about 4 times now they never followed on their promise to do so and they say openly and very, very clearly how they refuse to accept Israel’s legitimate existence or how they call for Israel’s elimination. How they see all of Israel as “Palestine”.
            The evidence is right there, why are you ignoring it ? I ask again: are those Israelis in wigs pretending to be the top PLO and Hamas leaders ? how about addressing the PLO leadership admitting very clearly how Oslo was a deceit ? the evidence is right there, is that an actor pretending to be Arafat ?
            “They sign treaties, they coopoerate with the state of Israel” – of course they do, when it serves their goals. So you’re not familiar with the PLO’s ‘Phased Plan’ ?
            “and yes the PA is not claiming soveirnity on the state of Israel anymore” – the links I provided, including the official PA emblem and the official PLO charter show how they consider all of Israel as theirs. Very clearly. Why are you ignoring this ?
            “If you still lying regarding this fact” – how can you lie like this when the evidence you refuse to address is right there in the Facebook comments section ? ignore it as much as you like, reality is not going to change.
            “and ? You may disgree with that but what is the link ?” – seriously ? Again: how Israel is not in the business of committing suicide on a national scale. the Palestinian ‘Right of Return’ is never going to happen. Ever.
            “WHat are the border proposed for the future state of Palestine” – I explained this to you so many times, How can you not grasp this by now ? it was going to be decided in the negotiations process, the last one was all of Gaza and about 95% of the West Bank with some land swaps. It was an in-going negotiations process, there was no final definitive map.
            “Did it included the west side of the Green line” – part of the land swap also included areas from within the Green Line. You really have no clue about this, do you ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Tom

            @Ido: it’s exactly what I m saying, it’s useless to debate with you, yous still repeating the same lies, and deniying the truth !

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Why are you lying when the posts refuting your clueless nonsense are posted above ? why are you lying when the evidence refuting your clueless nonsense is posted in the Facebook comments section ? evidence you to this moment ignore ?
            I have shown in detail how what you’re saying is simply not true, backed by evidence you to this moment ignore, I used your own links to show you how what you’re saying is simply not true, why are you again and again ignoring this ?
            “yous still repeating the same lies, and deniying the truth” – Again: then show it, prove it, point to it, the same way I refuted your clueless nonsense. Why can’t you do this ? Again: is any of the evidence incorrect ? out of context ? those are not the Palestinian leadership ? those are not the official PLO and Hamas emblems showing all of Israel as theirs ? the quotes are fake ? ‘Israel’ does appear on official PLO or Hamas maps ?
            then show it. Prove it. Like I proved my argument, which you of course to this moment ignore and lie claiming I didn’t.
            Again: how can you lie and say things like “What evidence did you show” when it’s posted right there in the Facebook comments section ? why are you lying ?
            What do you mean “it’s useless to debate” with me ? you haven’t been debating. You have been ignoring my posts and evidence refuting your clueless nonsense, repeatedly. This is not a debate, this is a denial.

            Reply to Comment
          • Tom

            Ido : I’ve already sent links, arguments but if it doesn’t come from your propganda israeli website, you don’t care about. So what about continuying ?

            I can copy paste hundred of time the same sentence : The PA has recognised Israel on the green line border, it’s a fact, it’s a reality. If you want to check the official position of the PA, you should start looking at the official website and official statements of the PA.

            https://www.nad.ps/en/publication-resources/factsheets/green-line-red-line-1967-border-and-two-state

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “I’ve already sent links” – and I refuted them, see the posts above. Why are you ignoring this again and again ?
            “it doesn’t come from your propganda israeli website” – Again: how is this “propaganda” ? I’ve been asking this multiple times and you’re refusing to answer. Are they inaccurate ? wrong in any way ? those are not the official PLO emblem and leaders ? those are not
            Hamas leaders and symbols ? show it, prove it, which part is wrong ? out of context ? dismissing everything as “Israeli propaganda sites” without addressing this or backing it up is idiotic. Did the site quote the PLO charter wrong ? the maps are wrong ? which is it ?
            “you don’t care about” – what are you talking about ? I specifically addressed everything you said, refuted your wrong claims, backed up what I said with proof you refuse to touch because of your “propaganda” pathetic excuse.
            “So what about continuying ?” – so what about actually addressing my posts ? where I refuted your wrong claims ? it’s all right there, the evidence is right there, why are you ignoring this ?
            “The PA has recognised Israel on the green line border” – and I proved to you the letters in question you mentioned were about a promise to amend the official Palestinian charter not recognizing Israel’s legitimacy and to remove the parts calling for Israel’s demise.
            A promise the Palestinians never followed as my evidence clearly show. Why are you to this moment ignore this ? I also said multiple times the deceit and manipulation admitted by the Palestinian leaders themselves, as part of the ‘Phased Plan’ or otherwise, the evidence is right there, why are you ignoring it ?

            “start looking at the official website” – sure, the same basic demand of the Palestinians based on the 1967 borders as per UN resolutions, meaning a newly created Palestinian Arab county, no Jews allowed, and a second Arab Palestinian country where Jews are allowed to live as the minority among potential millions of Arabs.
            Your link simply provides the definitions from the Palestinians perspective (with quite a few lies and misleading inaccuracies which I’ll detail in the following post) about the 1967 border and the basis for possible future negotiations about the two states.
            If only the Palestinians actually followed it in good faith, and not behaved and said the things detailed very clearly in the evidence you to this moment ignore.
            Now start looking at the evidence I provided of the Palestinian top leaders yelling in your face how they do not accept Israel’s legitimacy and see all of Israel, from the river to the sea, as theirs and how they call for Israel’s end, how their official charters don’t accept Israel’s legitimacy and call for Israel’s end.
            Are those actors pretending to be them ? you never answered, asked you 4 times now. Why are you ignoring this over and over again ?

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): to address your link in detail: their use of the term ‘historic Palestine’ is misleading. There was never a historic Palestinian state of course, it’s a name of a geographic region. What they call ‘historic Palestine’ consisted of what is today Jordan, Israel, Gaza and the West Bank.
            “subsequent creation of the State of Israel on 78 percent of historic Palestine” – that’s a lie. Transjordan itself consisted of 78 percent of ‘Historic Palestine’ until 1947.
            During the defensive war of 1967, Israel captured the West Bank and Gaza, which gave Israel control over 22 percent of the original mandate of Palestine until today.

            They write about the recognition of the State of Palestine in the 1967 border as not being “an attempt to delegitimize the State of Israel” but the Palestinian leaders and top officials are on record saying how they don’t accept Israel’s legitimacy, as is declared in their official charters. See the evidence I provided.

            “For centuries, Jerusalem has been the political, administrative, cultural and religious center of Palestine.” – nope. Not the newly invented ‘Palestinian’ nationality, and Jerusalem, east or West have never been the political and administrative center, or capital of any Muslim/Arab empire who controlled the region. And most definitely has never been the capital of the Palestinians.

            The West Bank is legally ‘disputed territory’ as it doesn’t belong to any sovereign state. From the text it seems as if it was taken from the Palestinian State. Something which historically never existed.
            They miss the part where Israel offered the captured land, with minor border modifications, back as part of negotiations following Israel winning the war. The Arabs adopted the “Three No’s” approach in the Khartoum Resolution: no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it.

            “Access to religious sites within Jerusalem will be respected for people of all faiths” – Muslims have never respected the Jews and in many cases also the Christians religious access when East Jerusalem was under Muslim control.

            I like how they describe the single state solution as “live as equal citizens in a single democratic state”. Take a look at the Arab countries around Israel and in the self governed Palestinian areas. The words ‘equal’ and ‘Democratic’ are not exactly the things that come to mind. Israel will never, ever willingly go to its end by allowing itself to become another Arab state.

            Hamas, at this moment in control of about 40% of the Palestinians and would have controlled the West Bank if the PLO actually allowed elections, will probably laugh out loud at this document. Hamas who base their actions and agenda on rejection of Israel’s right to exist. Maybe the Palestinians should focus on making peace among themselves.

            Also a small reminder: still waiting for you to show an official Hamas or PLO borders map where ‘Israel’ is clearly marked. And to actually address the evidence I provided.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            @Ido: This really borders on delusional now. What a sight. Delusions of refutation. Delusions of proof. Delusions of where the burden of proof lies. Delusions of “backed up ad hominem.” Delusions of not being thoroughly obnoxious. Unbelievable. (The proof in a way of this will come in the blowback I get from you on this which will be, mind-numbingly, more of the same dreck. Because you do not have anything else.)

            And then, to top it all off, unbelievably, Ido “Go tell the Arabs to reverse their three no’s of Khartoum” Geller repeats the same dishonesty again, sneakily (but sneaking nothing by anyone with a small portion of their wits about them) omitting history since 1967, after having been called out many times on the dishonesty of this.

            Lord have mercy. What a spectacle. Between you, Lewis and Halevy it’s quite a gallery.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “This really borders on delusional now” – Right. So you decided to keep lying. Brilliant “strategy”.

            Ben: *clueless nonsense*
            Ido: No it isn’t, you’re wrong. Here’s why and here’s the evidence.
            Ben: no I’m not!
            Ido: Um, here’s why and here’s the evidence.
            Ben: but where is the evidence ?
            Ido: um, I just posted it, there it is. Why are you lying ?
            Ben: You couldn’t refute me! aha!
            Ido: why are you lying ? here is the detailed explanation why you are wrong and here’s the proof.
            Ben: But where is your proof ? aha!
            Ido: There it is, you’re wrong. here’s why and here’s the evidence.
            Ben: But you have no evidence! you couldn’t do it! aha!
            Ido: It’s posted right there, along with the posts you ignored for 30 times now.
            Ben: so where is your evidence ? where are the posts ?
            Ido: are you off your meds or something ?

            Etc. Trolling or mental breakdown to the point of denial of reality. You have my sympathies on either.

            “What a sight. Delusions of refutation. Delusions of proof” – there has got to be a point where part of your brain realizes lying like this repeatedly is not very constructive for your “argument”. I refuse to believe someone can be this stupid.

            “Delusions of where the burden of proof lies” – right, explaining how you’re wrong backed by evidence, posts and evidence you avoid at all costs repeatedly is not literally providing proof. Why on earth are you digging yourself deeper and deeper into
            the lying clown hole ?
            “Delusions of “backed up ad hominem.”” – Again, 564th time: I addressed your clueless nonsense directly, explained why it is wrong and provided evidence for it. How can you not understand how this is not ‘ad hominem’ ? why are you embarrassing yourself like this ? What I did is the opposite of ‘ad hominem’. Look it up, this is beyond ridiculous.

            “Unbelievable” – the word that keeps coming to mind when I see how you lie repeatedly like this. I would add ‘amazing’ as well.
            “Because you do not have anything else” – right, besides the post after post proving you wrong which you ignore backed by evidence you avoid addressing. Why are you lying ?
            “Go tell the Arabs to reverse their three no’s of Khartoum” – oh you mean when I proved you had no clue what you were talking about in a different thread ? where you lied repeatedly about what I said ? about the refusal of the Arabs to negotiate with Israel right after the Six Days War ?
            Good times, showed how you are a clueless liar so many times backed by evidence you ignored, sounds familiar ? I’ll add the link to that comments section right after this post.
            “Geller repeats the same dishonesty again” – you lied, I showed that in detail on that comments section. In great detail so many times. It was fun.
            “omitting history since 1967” – Seriously ? and you’re adding more lies to it ? hilarious.. the comments section will be posted right after this one. Probably take 2 days on this site.
            “called out many times on the dishonesty of this” – why on earth are you lying about this as well ? haven’t you lied enough ? Jesus Christ..
            “What a spectacle” – oh I couldn’t have described it better myself.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            And here’s the page with the comments section where you lied repeatedly about what I said regarding the “Three No’s of the Khartoum”. It was an example of actions from the past that effected the region that we can’t “turn back” like the rejection of the Partition Plan. Like the Arabs wars against Israel.

            https://972mag.com/why-the-israeli-left-cant-reconcile-with-the-most-zionist-law/137025/

            Lots of posts and evidence backing it up (in the Facebook comments section) showing in detail how as usual you have no idea what you’re talking about. Why are you lying about that as well ? haven’t you lied enough on this very page ? trying to break some kind of pathetic lying record ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Like I said, mind-numbingly, more of the same dreck. “…why are you lying about me?…” It’s like an airport hari krishna chant.

            Where’s the beef?

            You said it (on August 13th):

            “you better tell the Arabs to accept the Partition Plan, to reverse their “Three No’s” of the Khartoum Resolution”

            Not very smart to link to a page that makes my point and makes the point that you will say anything and that anyone who disagrees with you is “lying.”

            This “you better tell the Arabs about Khartoum” thing is emblematic, so representative, of your characteristic attempts to mislead and demonize, and basically, to BS.

            Thanks for the link.

            And as I said then, I think you protest so much because at the time you pulled it you had really no idea that these casual slanders, these smug, lazy, mindless, history-abusing maneuvers won’t work anymore, and I guess in the center-right wing echo chambers you inhabit they fly just fine. And you just are indignant that you’re getting called out on it. You can’t believe it. The indignity! The narcissistic injury! Me! A “liberal Zionist” Lord of the Land! Why I am in favor of a bantustanzized, crippled, statelet solution! How dare they!

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “It’s like an airport hari krishna chant” – still clinging to your ridiculous lies I see, amazing. Really, it is.
            “Where’s the beef?” – you mean the 50 or so posts backed by evidence you ignore as if your life depends on it ?
            “Not very smart to link to a page that makes my point and makes the point that you will say anything” – why on earth are you lying about this as well when I explain how you’re lying about 10 times on that page ? I don’t get it.
            Nobody is that stupid.
            “This “you better tell the Arabs about Khartoum” thing is emblematic, so representative, of your characteristic attempts” – it is a fine example of you lying, not knowing what I was talking about and clinging to your lie like your life depends on it, sounds familiar ?
            The posts are right there in that link, why on earth are you lying like this ? I don’t get it.
            “to mislead and demonize, and basically, to BS” – how on earth is explaining in detail many times backed by proof you refuse to address “misleading and demonizing” ? the posts are right there, why on earth do you think lying like this helps you in any way ?
            “Thanks for the link” – you’re most welcome.
            “And as I said then” – as I proved then, over and over again, you had no idea what I was talking about and you lied about what I said. It’s all right there.
            “that these casual slanders, these smug, lazy, mindless, history-abusing maneuvers” – what the hell are you talking about ? what slander ? history abusing ? this is your schtick now ? I thought you went for simply claiming the posts and evidence don’t exist. So you’re not consistent with your lying and clueless nonsense. Figures. The meds are wearing off ?
            “you’re getting called out on it” – Again: what the hell are you talking about ? called on what ? on providing more proof how you’re a clueless liar ?
            “indignity! The narcissistic injury! Me! A “liberal Zionist” Lord of the Land! Why I am in favor of a bantustanzized, crippled, statelet solution” – and some more lying, why not really ? like you lied about what I said regarding “The Three No’s”, as explain detail in the link above.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “I don’t get it.”

            True.

            “Nobody is that stupid.”

            Correct. At least I am not. Which leaves you with the dilemma of explaining things and considering that you indeed don’t get it. (It is similar to the dilemma I lay out today, below, regarding Breaking the Silence: That many Israeli soldiers are traitorous liars? Really? Hmmmmm. Maybe there’s another explanation….hmmmm let me see now….)

            “The meds are wearing off ?”

            I’ve noticed you using this tactic more and more. The resort of the truly desperate.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “True” – hilarious.. You lied. The posts are right there. The links and evidence are right there. I still can’t believe you think lying like this has any positive effect for your “argument”.
            “Correct. At least I am not.” – Why are you lying again and again like a child ? claiming the posts and evidence don’t exist, claiming I didn’t prove you wrong and explained how you lied when the link is right there ?
            How can you not grasp that doing so makes you look like a pathetic joke ?
            “considering that you indeed don’t get it” – how deep are you going to dig yourself into the clueless liar hole ? lying that the posts and evidence don’t exist wasn’t enough ?
            “I lay out today, below” – and I answered you, below. And provided again the evidence you have been repeatedly ignoring many, many times.
            You lied, changed the subject repeatedly, acted like a child and then lied some more. See the posts above and below. You have been repeatedly ignoring the posts and evidence showing in detail how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about, you repeatedly lied claiming they don’t exist.

            “I’ve noticed you using this tactic more and more. The resort of the truly desperate.” – right, trying to figure out why you have been resorting to such ridiculous lies, trying to make sense what would make someone lie like this definitely shows I’m the one who is desperate.. hilarious.
            I’ve noticed you again ignored the many posts and evidence showing in detail how you’re a clueless liar. I again noticed how you’re changing the subject over and over again. So how do you rationalize this to yourself ? I asked you more than once and you refused to answer.
            I’d really like to hear your rationalization for your pathetic lies and denial of reality, if it’s not trolling or a mental breakdown. Please, by all means, go ahead.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            You’ve lost the argument. Pure and simple. (We’ve already shown, on November 5th below, how you failed “the posts are right there” test of simply specifying what specific statement of mine is “a lie” and for what specific reason.) Honestly I’ve never met someone past the age of five who so childishly yells “liar” when caught out and bested in arguments, as you do.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “You’ve lost the argument. Pure and simple” -> oh yes, you saying this while the many posts and evidence above and below showing in detail how you’re a clueless lying ‘Useful Idiot’ who doesn’t know what he’s talking about will definitely make it real. To you maybe.
            “you failed “the posts are right there”” -> um, you can’t be serious. What on earth makes you think lying like this can somehow, in any way, help your “argument” ?
            “how you failed..simply specifying what specific statement of mine is “a lie” and for what specific reason” -> Liar. I did. Many, many times over many, many posts. They are posted right there below. You claimed no such posts existed, that’s what made me
            question your sanity. which led to this amusing exchange:
            Ido: You’re like a child saying “no I didn’t eat the cake!” when the cake is smeared all over your face.
            Ben: “Too telling! He can’t do it! He can’t provide the “evidence”! I thought the posts were “right there”!”
            Ido: And I thought it’s not possible for you to appear more pathetic after the last hilarious pathetic excuses and lies not to respond to my posts. I was wrong. Jesus Christ man, I feel embarrassed for you.

            The posts are right there, below and above. The evidence is right there in the posts and in the Facebook comments section. All of which you ignore as if your life depends on it and then you lie claiming they don’t exist. You’re a pathetic liar.

            “Honestly I’ve never met someone past the age of five who so childishly yells “liar” when caught out and bested in arguments” -> thanks for the laugh. That has got to be the most hilarious pathetic thing you could ever say. Now that’s impressive. Not only did you again ignore my posts and evidence, you seem to be under the impression that if you say the most outrageous lie you can think of, this will somehow help your “argument” in some way. This has got to be trolling, not mental breakdown, nobody can be this ridiculous.
            “Bested in arguments”.. now that is delusional nonsense and denial par excellent. Yes, tell yourself that instead of addressing my posts and evidence, maybe it’ll all go away. And don’t forget to project what I’ve been saying on you back on me, it’ll definitely make the posts and evidence disappear. Any second now.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            This is why society has tests, Ido. To be objective. To screen out the bullshit. You failed the “the posts are right there” test. You can’t simply state, for the life of you, “Ben said this “——-.” It is a lie because “——-.” Just a few sentences. You can’t do it. You’re a fake.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “This is why society has tests, Ido. To be objective” -> um, you lied and claimed the many posts and evidence you still ignore as if your life depends on it, don’t exist.
            posts and evidence showing very clearly how you’re a clueless ‘Useful idiot’ who has no idea what he’s talking about.
            “To screen out the bullshit” -> your pathetic “projection” technique is fascinating in an anthropological kind of way.
            “You failed the “the posts are right there” test” -> so you still cling to your lie as if the huge amount of posts and evidence don’t exist. Just to make this very clear. I’m curious to see how long you’re going to stick with this ridiculous lie of yours.
            “You can’t simply state, for the life of you, “Ben said this “——-.”” -> um, the posts where I did that are all over this comments section. You’re ignoring this now just like you ignored them when I initially posted them. I pointed it out each time.
            I have no idea what makes you think lying like this when the posts are all over this page has any value besides showing how big of a joke you are.
            “It is a lie because “——-.” Just a few sentences. You can’t do it.” -> um, I did. So many times. Including pointing out how you lied about the posts not existing, it’s all right here in this very page. So you think if you lie enough times the posts and evidence will vanish ? do keep trying, this is comedy gold.
            “You’re a fake” -> said the clueless liar who still clings to his delusional nonsense even when the evidence against it is shoved in his face repeatedly, which he ignores of course. Who lies like a small child claiming posts all over this page don’t exist. Like I said, comedy gold. This is why I enjoy our little chats so much. I’ll add more links to Facebook comments sections with pages with detailed posts of your lies for some additional laughing material. Claim they don’t exist as well, if you’re on a lying roll.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “I’ll add more links”

            He can’t do it! Fails the test again.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “He can’t do it! Fails the test again.” – right, all the links with the detailed comments section including lists of your lies and clueless nonsense, explained in detail, are not in the Facebook comments section as I said. The ones I’m looking at right now.
            See, this is what I mean by you hilariously lying. This is comical, like a child holding his hands to his face yelling “na na na I’m not seeing anything!”. Even as trolling it’s
            extremely pathetic. Kinda sad actually.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            He fails the test repeatedly and as a cover pretends he does not know what the test is!
            (And if he truly does not know what the test is then the test result is even more penetrating and definitive. I don’t have a test to differentiate these two possibilities but I don’t need it. Either way, this student flunks the test!)

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “He fails the test repeatedly” -> why on earth are you still lying like this ? the posts are right there above and below, the evidence is right there in the Facebook comments section.
            Why are you behaving like a small child who can’t deal with reality ? you think it’s endearing ? how can you not realize this makes you look like a pathetic joke ?
            “and as a cover pretends he does not know what the test is!” -> what the hell are you talking about ? the evidence is right there, the posts are right there, at which point your brain reaches the conclusion that these outrageous lies are not exactly serving your ‘Useful Idiot’ “arguments” ?
            “And if he truly does not know what the test is then the test result is even more penetrating and definitive” -> oh yes, this is not a pathetic squirming nonsense par excellence.
            “this student flunks the test!” -> yes, keep lying to yourself like a small child. The many posts and the evidence refuting your clueless nonsense, which I’m looking at right now, the many links to other pages with comments sections listing your more clueless nonsense and hilarious lies don’t exist because you say so. You’re a joke.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            You can’t simply state, for the life of you, “Ben said this “——-.” It is a lie because “——-.” Just a few simple sentences. You can’t do it. You need your “the posts are right there, the links I posted are right there” winding, verbose, ad hominem-encrusted, twisted path of obfuscation to cover your tracks because you have never shown that I lied about anything. You are a fake. We have never taken you seriously and we surely won’t start now, son. Have a nice day. I’m done with this line of testing. The results are in. You’ve cluttered up this page quite enough. Bye bye.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “You can’t simply state, for the life of you, “Ben said this “——-.” -> I did. Many, many times all over this page. I still have no idea why you think lying like this has any positive effect for you.
            I even posted many links in the Facebook comments section to other pages with many examples of your more hilarious clueless nonsense and lies. The first 2 with detailed lists. You also insisted those links don’t exist.
            “You can’t do it.” -> why are you still clinging to this absurd lie ? the posts are right there above and below, the evidence is right there in the Facebook comments section, just like it was when you skipped the posts and ignored the evidence initially.
            “ad hominem” -> and you still have no clue what that means. Amazing. I did the exact opposite, addressed your posts specifically, why are you still insisting on embarrassing yourself like this ?
            “you have never shown that I lied about anything” -> how can I take you seriously when you lie like this ? how can you not realize this makes you look like a pathetic joke ?
            “You are a fake” -> right, and the posts and evidence don’t exist. You’re a pathetic clueless ‘Useful Idiot’ who has no clue what he’s talking about, as detailed in the many posts and links you lie and claim don’t exist.
            “We have never taken you seriously and we surely won’t start now, son” -> I like your use of the royal “we”. Of course not, it’s a lot easier to cling to your delusional clueless nonsense and lie how the posts and evidence refuting you don’t exist. Why address the uncomfortable reality when you can substitute it with your own ?
            “Have a nice day” -> Thanks, you too. Got some fine references here for some of the most ridiculous lying you ever did. Amazing stuff.
            “I’m done with this line of testing” -> still clinging to this hilarious nonsense ? amazing.
            “The results are in” -> oh you are 100% right about that.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            And here’s just a little taste of your lying clueless nonsense from the evidence you insist don’t exist in the Facebook comments section, from one of the links you lie about and say it doesn’t exist, here’s a list of some of your lies you claim don’t exist:

            Some examples:
            1. You said Hamas wasn’t using payment incentives for riots at the Gaza protests. You called it “low level propaganda”. Proved you were lying with the detailed payments list.
            2. You lied and claimed an Israeli journalist said something he never did, You added words and as a result also meaning he never did, even after I explained this to you in detail dozen of times with the actual original article the journalist posted, you still lied about it.
            3. You lied about the Palestinian casualties kill rate, claiming I said something I never did (“coldly insinuated that a 41% kill rate”) when I was talking about the Palestinians killed out of the number of protesters who didn’t riot near the border.
            4. You lied when you claimed the Palestinian President didn’t say he wants a ‘Jew-Free’ “Palestine”. You lied when you claim you knew the distinction between ‘Israeli’ and ‘Jew’, you added the word “settler” which he never said, I easily proved you wrong when I explained, literally more than a dozen times, how the Palestinians don’t consider the Israeli Arabs as Israelis when I mentioned how the Palestinian President himself wants a Jew-Free “Palestine”. How they see no difference between Jews and Israelis even though they are not one and the same.
            5. You regularly claim I said things I never did (“Israel is special and unique among 21st century nations”). Saying I have anything to do with Feiglin, etc.
            6. You lied about Likud (“Likudist’s running platform is death to a Palestinian state”). Not a fan of Likud, quite the opposite, but that was a stupid lie. You of course ignored what Hamas’ openly stated goals are.
            You went on some hilarious lying temper tantrum (“any Palestinian who dares call out the Likud or stand against them is arrested or killed by Israeli snipers”).
            7. You claimed Israel “staged a Latin American style military coup to overturn a democratic election” in Gaza. Blamed something Fatah, in their inner-Palestinian struggle with Hamas, did backed by the Bush administration. Lie.
            8. You claimed the Palestinians “put down their guns under the leadership of Mahmoud Abbas”, now that is an outrageous lie.
            9. You lied when you claimed Israel refused to accept the legitimate existence of “Palestine” (a second Palestinian Arab state, after Jordan), I easily proved you wrong.
            10. You also lied about Abu Mazen regarding his anti-semitism and Holocaust denial but in later articles you came to your senses and somewhat accepted the fact that he’s a rabid anti-semite but you completely ignored the Holocaust denial part.

            All the details are posted very clearly in the comments sections on that page, in a link which you insist doesn’t exist. Here I’ll repost it here as well:
            https://972mag.com/palestinian-poet-convicted-of-inciting-terror-in-facebook-poem/

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            No way, sorry, this won’t do. It fails the test. Again. All of these words here are the same old reproduced distortions at best. Putting it kindly.

            We insist on a precise quotation of my words, on a precise page, on a precise date. So that we can look it up. You have not done this. And we insist that that then followed by a precise argument (not some propaganda link) as to why it is a lie. You know. The test.

            I’ve asked you how many times now and you can’t do it?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “it won’t do..it failed the test” -> right so providing specific examples, which you of course ignored again, with a direct link to where all the details and said posts are, just a tiny exaple of your clueless nonsense doesn’t show an example of your clueles nonsense because you say so. How is pointing exacly where you lied ? where you had no clue what you were saying a “distortion” ? why can’t you address the actual text ? especially when I’m quoting you ? why are you still lying like this ? why do you still cling to your pathetic lie that the many posts detailing your clueless lying nonsense do not exist ? how can you not realize doing this makes you look like a pathetic joke ? the precise quotation of your words are right there in the posts you ignored repeatedly, your pathetic “strategy” of demanding a page number when the posts are all over this page and the evidence is very clarly posted in the Facebook comments section makes you look like a pathetic joke. you can easily look up your clueless nonsense and lies in every post, your behaving like a child doesn’t improve your pathetic sad situation.
            claiming I have not done this is a blatant lie. Propaganda link ? fine, address it, prove it, refute it. go ahead. I quoted you lying (see the example in the previous post and in the many, many other posts and links) and explained in detail why that is. Address it. Stop lying like a pathetic joke.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            You have very plainly not done it. This is obvious to anyone paying minimal attention. I think you went back over my precise words, in context, and realized that if you are put on the spot and have to supply precise quotation, when and where, cleanly and plainly and out in the open, without a lot of your usual smoke and chaff, the jig is up and your sneakiness will be revealed. And I will pick it apart and dismantle it with relish and you won’t hear the end of it. “Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants; electric light the most efficient policeman,” said Louis D. Brandeis.
            You can’t do it. You know it, I know it, anyone else reading along here (god help them have patience and fortitude) knows it. A very satisfying denouement if I do say so myself.
            And one copy only, please. You are excruciatingly verbose as it is. Remember, clean, simple, short, sweet, plain, out in the open. The Test.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “You have very plainly not done it” – so you are trying to repeat the lie as many times as possible, hoping it somehow becomes real ? how adorable.

            Ben: *clueless nonsense*
            Ido: not true, factually incorrect, here’s what you said and here’s why you’re wrong. Here’s the evidence. here are many other links to similar pags with detailed lists and evidence of your lies and clueless nonsense.
            Ben: so where is your evidence ?
            Ido: it’s in the Facebook comments section, Like I said 50 times.
            Ben: aha! so you have no evidence!
            Ido: you’re joking, right ? it’s right there.
            Ben: so you don’t have anything! where are your posts ?
            Ido: are you blind ? it’s right where they are when you initially skipped them.
            Ben: so you have no posts! aha!
            Ido: are you too dumb to scroll up and down ? the Facebook comments section is invisible ?
            Ben: um.. it’s all propaganda!yeah, that’ it!
            Ido: fine, then refute it. Prove it. Back up your claims like I backed mine.
            Ben: so where are your posts ?
            Ido: do you have brain damage ?

            What’s obvious is how your lying got more desparate.

            “to supply precise quotation” – actually quoted you each time you lied and talked nonsense, in fact I compiled a nice list of some of the more hilarious examples 4 posts up, taken from the links you claim don’t exist in the facebook comments section. Can you count to 4 ?
            “when and where, cleanly and plainly and out in the open” – so now you’re saying my posts are not “in the open” ?
            “And I will pick it apart and dismantle it with relish” – asked you about 50 times to do that regarding my posts. You failed the test and refused to do so every time. The posts are right there. The evidence is right there. Stop lying like a child.
            “You can’t do it. You know it, I know it” – I know you have embarassed yourself in ways I didn’t think were possible. Until now.
            “A very satisfying denouement” – couldn’t have said it better myself.
            “And one copy only, please” – it’s still there from the time you initially ignored it. So you’re saying you are too dumb to scroll up and down or click links ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Absolutely, I am saying your posts are not in the open It is obvious you are still wriggling on this hook. For some time now. A spectacle. You are not meeting the requirements of the test, which is a test precisely because it asks you for direct, undoctored, unparaphrased, context-embedded quotations attached to a specific page and a specific date on that specific page, and attached to a specific context–so we can look it up and verify. Doveryai no proveryai. Actually, ‘nyet’ to doveryai. What you provide as “examples” on November 14, a few posts above this one, are not direct quotations and pages and dates–at all. They in fact are likely a dishonest, sneaky collection of distorting paraphrases or straw men or god knows what–who can tell?–serving as fodder for your contentious interpretations. And that’s the way you like it. We know you. The test please. The Test. And we’ll remind you yet again that The Test involves not just all of the forgoing but a succinct, clear explanation–not a link, an explanation in your own words–as to exactly why in each case the Ido-allegation that I am “a clueless liar” should stand. We’ll wait. Thanks.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            You really are digging yourself deeper than ever before aren’t you. At least you are trying.
            “I am saying your posts are not in the open” -> it was already established all over this page and in the pages linked in the Facebook comments section that you’re a liar and a terrible one at that, no need for additional proof. So where are the posts quoting you and explaining how your’re wrong, on Venus ? why do you still cling to this idiotic lie ? you’re becoming a parody of yourself. Sad to watch really. How am I “wiggling on a hook” when I’m the one who proved post after post how you’re a clueless liar and you’re the one who refuses to touch them and then lie they don’t exist and then coming with the brilliant “strategy” to insist that the posts should be posted again for you as per your specific specifications only ? posts and evidence you lied about and claimed they don’t exist ? which you simply ignored when initially posted ? you’re right about a spectacle. I have never seen you embarass yourself like this before. Ever.
            I have provided your own quotes followed by a detailed explanation why you’re clueless all over this page. Below and above and in many other links in the Facebook comments section (which you avoid like the plague to this moment). Your quotes are not doctored. They are not paraphrased. I always quote you right before I explain how you’re wrong. You just simply ignored all of this and lie about it again.
            you want a specific date and page ? do you also want me to massage your back while you read it ? you can’t be this stupid, you know how to scroll up and down and click links. You ignored the posts when I first made them, you saw them and just ignored them. Why is that ? you never answer, you don’t attempt to prove me wrong or back your claims, you just lie some more and come up with some hilarious “strategies” to continue and avoid posts.
            the post with the list from Nov. 14 is just a tiny example of your lying and clueless nonsense. I wrote what you said and why it was a lie or incorrect. You of course ignored the link at the bottom of that post with all the relevant posts. Then go ahead, prove me wrong if you didn’t say that clueless nonsense. Go right ahead. The link to that page is there, actually back up what your’e saying.
            When I point how you’re wrong I quote you, you know that. I have no idea why you’re lying about this as well. The date appears before each post. You’re pathetic excuse to not address the posts you initially ignored is beyond rediculous. Haven’t seen anyone humiliate themselves like this before. My posts are not distortions, not a paraphrase and not an interpretation. They simply prove you’re a clueless liar. That’s it.
            “And that’s the way I like it” -> what are you talking about This is your pathetic “strategy” to avoid coming to terms that you’re a clueless liar and you’re projecting this on me as well ? amazing. Oh yes there was a test: you backing up your claims and refuting mine. You failed miserably. Your pathetic attempts to avoid addressing the posts and evidence all over this page and the Facebook comments section is truly a sight to behold.

            Reply to Comment
    4. Ben

      @Ido, in regards to all of the above…

      Most of this by you is covered under my “or whatever,” and “the Book of Joshua” applies to Lewis, to whom I was replying. Do you need extra help with this?

      “just like Bulgaria… The West Bank is disputed territory…” Yeah, right. No. See arguments of ‘Yeah, Right’ and others. We’ve covered this. Case closed.

      Apartheid against Jews? No. Apartheid by Jews? Yes. This is not rocket science and it is always interesting the odd, petifogging, smoke-billowing “apartheid against the occupier” lengths people will go to defend the indefensible.

      Much of the rest of what you write in that post is covered under the “I was addressing a person other than you” clause.

      More to follow. (This may take a while, it’s a big pile….)

      Reply to Comment
      • Ben

        “billions have been poured unto without much to show for it”

        You just gotta love the occupier’s arrogance. The contemptuousness. Those billions of course fund ISRAEL’S occupation every single day, relieve it of the need to support the captive population under occupation, and on top of that Israel works day and night to suffocate any Palestinian farming, trade, business, etc. To keep them dependent and suppressed. Brutally so.

        “The “palestinian refugees” is a good business.“

        Yah, for ISRAEL. If you cannot grasp this basic idea, then you really don’t understand anything.

        “They are the only refugees which apparantly gain their status by genetics”

        And you gotta love the delicious irony here. Those West Bank settler cowboys–they apparently ‘gain their status by genetics’ too! “My mother is Jewish? And I live in California? Hey, I get carte blanch to waltz into the West Bank and stake out my claim and push others around! My DNA told me so! Whooopeee!!”

        More to follow.

        Reply to Comment
        • Ben

          IDO: ‘Israel’s treatment of those immigrants is indeed abysmal, …. BUT…why are you calling illegal work immigrants “refugees” ? only a tiny fraction of them are actual refugees.’

          IDO: ‘I’m quite familiar with incidents of settler’s appalling behavior and violence towards Palestinians…. BUT…Are you familiar with prominent Taayush activist who…’

          Here we see a familiar two-step shuffle. Pretend to be enlightened and empathic with a cover assertion but immediately take it back by some distraction or some contemptuous slander meant to make the cover assertion devalued and slip in the real idea Ido wants to insert.

          Ido’s use of Ezra Nawi is appalling, really I’m disgusted:

          The persecution of Ezra Nawi
          https://972mag.com/the-persecution-of-ezra-nawi/135807/

          (And by the way, Ido Geller, why shouldn’t the Palestinians, under relentless assault by settlers and the army cheating then out of their land at every turn for 50 years, regard someone who sells land to settlers as traitors? Do you not see the lazy, condescending, contemptuous occupier’s assumption you truck in there? Please do tell me the last time an Israeli Jewish homeowner west of the Green Line, or anywhere for that matter, sold a house to a West Bank Palestinian and got away with it?)

          More to follow.

          Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “only a tiny fraction of them are actual refugees.”

            How does Ido Geller know this? Because Netanyahu or Gilad Erdan told him so? Because he read it in the JPost? Israel has refused to undertake any competent, systematic process of determining the refugee status of these people. If only a tiny fraction of these people are actual refugees, then what is Israel so afraid of? Israel’s behavior SHOWS that it knows in fact that what Ido Geller is saying is what “everybody knows” but it just ain’t so.

            “incidents of settler’s appalling behavior and violence towards Palestinians”

            As if these “incidents” are isolated, as if they are like random assaults on a democracy’s otherwise law abiding streets. Instead of a ruthless 50-year illegal occupation in which the occupying power, Israel, totally empowers those settlers, coddles and protects and enables them at every turn, and looks the other way, routinely, as policy, as strategy, when they commit behavior Ido supposedly finds appalling. But not enough to do anything about it.

            More to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “Israel’s treatment of those immigrants is indeed abysmal, but why are you calling illegal work immigrants “refugees”?”

            You can’t see the non-sequitur from one half of that sentence to the other half? Israel uses as an inherent, intrinsic excuse for its abysmal treatment of refugees the excuse that they are not really refugees but “work migrants.” Once again we have to ask you, Ido Geller, where’s the beef? You say you are for refugees being treated humanely but out of the other side of your mouth you traffic the same Netanyahu bullshit. Where’s the beef? Where is your heart??

            “only a tiny fraction of them are actual refugees”

            The insistent Israeli obsession with differentiating between “work migrants” and refugees is it itself a distraction, a technique. (Yeah, these people left their homes and trekked thousands of miles over incredibly hazardous terrain and untold murderous threats because they were looking for a job and a nifty pay increase so they could buy a nice flat screen TV…suuure; and even aside from that, the Europeans as a whole, those horrible people in right wing Israelis’ eyes, are FAR more open and welcoming and accepting of black African refugees than are Israelis and far less eagle-eyed for and niggling and begrudging about the “infiltrators” and “work migrants” among them. And in fact most Americans are far more open to refugees than are most Israelis. It is telling.)

            The REAL differentiation that needed and needs to take place is something like this:

            https://972mag.com/the-nubians-israels-invisible-refugee-community/130499/
            ‘…The demand to differentiate between the various people who came here from Africa is not petty — it is a matter of principle. Differentiating between dissidents and supporters of the regime; between those who seek asylum for fleeing forced labor, and political activists; between those who are persecuted due to their ethnic identities and those who rose up and managed to escape. This is how we treat them as humans, rather than as a “problem.”’

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “Most of this by you is covered under my “or whatever,”” – um, I literally pointed to every section of what you said I showed how it’s either factually incorrect or a historic fabrication or simple ignorance. Backed by evidence that you, as I expected of course, refuse to even address.
            “and “the Book of Joshua” applies to Lewis” – so this somehow validates this lying nonsense of yours ? you said the same to me before, I repeated the same answer. The evidence is right there in the Facebook comments section. Why are you ignoring this ?
            “Do you need extra help with this?” – what ? I was just puzzled by your continual lying about this and your continual denial of hard evidence which proves you have no idea what you’re saying. I believe I was very clear.
            “Yeah, right. No” – that’s a lovely argument, as expected you simply ignore everything I said. Please, by all means, address it. Which fact is wrong ?
            “We’ve covered this. Case closed” – the only thing we covered is how you have no idea about the history, facts and reality of the subject. Repeating “case closed” does nothing other than make me laugh. I ask again: which part of what I said is wrong ? which evidence is wrong ?
            why is this always so difficult for you ? I addressed everything you said, showed how you again twist and lie, how you are apparently brainwashed by some of the more esoteric propaganda nonsense there is. And this is your response ? how pathetic are you ?

            “Apartheid against Jews? No” – Read what I posted. I explained this to you in detail in the past as well. There is separation by law, preventing Jews from entering certain areas under Palestinian control and certain roads. This is a fact. So I simply choose to say ‘separation’ in Afrikaans, just like you did.
            So it is Apartheid. Saying “no it isn’t” is the argument level of a child.
            “Apartheid by Jews? Yes” – and of course you simply ignored what I posted about this, I repeat for the second time:
            The treatment of Arabs by the State of Israel can’t be compared in any way to the treatment of the black majority in South Africa under apartheid.
            Palestinians in the West Bank and in Gaza encounter hardships as a result of Israeli policies however these procedures and structures have been developed to promote security and to thwart potential terrorist action, not to persecute or segregate
            Not Apartheid. Why are you ignoring the evidence I provided ? address it, they are right there. Why are you again ignoring this ?

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “just like Bulgaria… The West Bank is disputed territory” – I gave you an example of many countries similar to Israel, refuting your “on ethnic-racial grounds” thing. You ignore this. And The West Bank is ‘disputed territory’ by definition. You may not like this, but this is a fact.
            “This is not rocket science” – exactly. Your lying nonsense about this is very easy to refute.
            “Much of the rest of what you write in that post is covered” – no it isn’t, you made factually incorrect claims which I explained in detail. The evidence against it is right there, why are you again ignoring this ?

            “You just gotta love the occupier’s arrogance” – how is facts based on reality “occupier’s arrogance” ? do you deny the Palestinians are perpetual refugees by design ? that the billions given to them, more than any other refugees in human history, doesn’t seem to improve their situation to not be refugees ?
            you think the huge amount of funds and materials spent on terror tunnels, Jew killing weapons and incentive funds and of course Swiss bank accounts of the Palestinian leadership has no actual on the ground effect ?
            “Those billions of course fund ISRAEL’S occupation every single day” – that’s an absurd lie. You either have no idea of the amount of aid sent to the Palestinians and their various organizations or you’re playing dumb.
            “to support the captive population under occupation” – um, aid sent to the Palestinians, more than any refugees in human history, I refuse to believe you’re this stupid.
            “Israel works day and night to suffocate any Palestinian farming, trade, business” – right, nothing the Palestinians do has anything to do with Israel’s actions, right ? rejecting cooperation with Israel, peace negotiations, constant terror attacks etc. Why do you treat the Palestinians like children with no responsibility for their own actions ? what’s with the condescending attitude ? is it racism ?
            “To keep them dependent” – oh yes, Israel forces them to want to eliminate Israel and to reject any and all peace agreements which will allow Israel to continue and exist.
            “Yah, for ISRAEL” – why are you again ignoring the evidence I provided about this ? are you really that clueless about the Hamas and PLO crippling corruption when it comes to aid funds ? about UNRWA’s history of corruption and terrorism support ?
            are you even going to address these fact or simply just ignore them because it contradicts your “narrative” ? I’ll add some more links with evidence in the Facebook comments section for you to ignore.

            more to follow

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 3): “Those West Bank settler cowboys–they apparently ‘gain their status by genetics’ too!” – this nonsense has absolutely nothing to do with the issue you just pathetically dodged, the farce of the “Palestinian refugees” status being passed from generation to generation.
            “My DNA told me so!” – and here we have a fine example of you simply ignoring what I said, knowing fully well that I’m 100% correct, and trying pathetically to change the subject. Why are you ignoring what I posted ? do you honestly think ignoring this will somehow make it go away ? are you 5 years old ?

            “Here we see a familiar two-step shuffle” – why are you again ignoring what I said ? why are you twisting and lying about what I said ? you made a factually incorrect claim. They are not refugees, they are almost all illegal work immigrants.
            This is a fact, lie as much as you want about this, this is not going to change.
            And as I said in the past I’m familiar with the settlers behavior. He wanted to make me aware of it, as I said in the past, to you as well, I am. I asked him if he’s aware with the not so angelic side of the organization he was specifically talking about, how a prominent member is literally knowingly sending Palestinians to their death. How is this “cover assertion” ? how is this “immediately taking it back” ? do explain.
            “contemptuous slander” – really ? how does reality based facts relevant to the matter at hand is ‘contemptuous slander’ ? do explain.
            You claimed I ‘slandered’ the Palestinian President by calling him an ant-semite Holocaust denier. So ignoring reality not to your liking seems to be a way you deal with reality that obviously doesn’t match your delusional nonsense. I believe you simply ignored the evidence I brought you, backing up what I said. As per tradition.
            “Ido’s use of Ezra Nawi is appalling” – Again: how does a fact backed by evidence is ‘my use is appalling’ ?
            “really I’m disgusted” – I’m disgusted by him statutory raping a 15 year old boy. As admitted by the victim.
            “The persecution of Ezra Nawi” – nothing there about him sending Palestinians to his death. Nothing about him being a rapist. Nothing about the evidence I provided.
            How can I take you seriously when you provide this very own leftist pro-Palestinian news blog as evidence ? when they ignore what is mentioned in the evidence I provided ? why are you behaving like a joke ?

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 4): “regard someone who sells land to settlers as traitors?” – so now you try and justify the murderous behavior of Nawi ? who literally sent Palestinians to their deaths ? seriously ?
            “settlers and the army cheating then out of their land” – addressed this is detail about “stolen land” in the posts above, the parts you ignored.
            As I already proved to you in the past, this law predates the occupation, it means “Jews” not settlers. I recall you were ignorant about this in the past as well, shocking I know. They torture and kill them, not simply call them ‘traitors’ even though they are allowed to sell their property to whoever they wish.
            So you’re fine with this ? amazing.
            “Do you not see the lazy, condescending, contemptuous occupier’s assumption you truck in there?” – I see how you pathetically attempt to justify murder.
            “sold a house to a West Bank Palestinian and got away with it?” – never mind that you again employ your “but..but..Israel” dodge, There are no restrictions on the purchase of private land in Israel. You realize we are talking about private land, right ?
            Posted a link in the Facebook comments section about this. I still can’t believe you attempted to justify murder of Palestinians. Amazing.

            “How does Ido Geller know this?” – Because Ido, unlike you, based his post on an actual researched fact. See the Facebook comments section for the evidence.
            “Israel has refused to undertake any competent, systematic process of determining the refugee status” – wrong. See the evidence I provided.
            “what is Israel so afraid of?” – ask the people who live in South Tel-Aviv streets like Ha’Tikva and Neve Sha’anan, it’s mostly crime and violence.
            Added evidence for this in the Facebook comments section. Please address it.
            “what “everybody knows” but it just ain’t so.” – you’re a liar, as the evidence I posted in the Facebook comments section clearly show. I can post many more if you like.
            “As if these “incidents” are isolated” – the majority of settlers do not behave like the ones mentioned in Bruce’s example. Those are the settlers type that also attack IDF soldiers. But by all means, post your data.
            “coddles and protects and enables them at every turn” – besides the times when they arrest them and dismantle their settlements. I literally proved this to you several times, I’m assuming you are doing the ‘selective memory’ schtick again ?

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 5): “You can’t see the non-sequitur from one half of that sentence to the other half?” – I can see you have no idea what you’re talking about and you have no clue about the actual facts. See the evidence in the Facebook comments section.
            “abysmal treatment of refugees” – Again: not refugees. Lying repeatedly about this won’t somehow make it the truth.
            ” the excuse that they are not really refugees but “work migrants.”” – not only are they not refugees, they are also breaking the law. Minor detail, I know.
            “where’s the beef?” – it’s right there in the Facebook comments section, all the evidence and information showing very, very clearly how you have no idea what you’re talking about.
            “You say you are for refugees being treated humanely” – not refugees. Lying about this is not going to change this. I said they should be sent to other places in Israel, not just South Tel-Aviv. I believe I was very specific and said this to you more than once before.
            “you traffic the same Netanyahu bullshit” – how does pointing out a fact, that that only a fraction of them are actually refugees, ‘trafficking Netanyahu bullshit’ ? they are illegal work immigrants, they should be sent to other areas and unless they are deported they should receive work permits. This will reduce the crime and violence problems I backed with evidence in the Facebook comments section.
            “Where is your heart??” – that’s hilarious coming from someone who “understands” the murder of Palestinian land brokers.
            “insistent Israeli obsession with differentiating between “work migrants” and refugees” – the idiocy of claiming there is no difference between the two is mind boggling. Really, it is.
            “trekked thousands of miles over incredibly hazardous terrain and untold murderous threats because they were looking for a job and a nifty pay increase so they could buy a nice flat screen TV” – your condescending blatant ignorance and idiocy is appalling.
            They came to Israel, and paid a lot of money to people in Africa to help them along the way, because they know in Israel their situation would be much better than in African countries. Better pay as well. Lots of organizations to assist them, etc.

            more to follow

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 6): And in a way you’re right, that’s what they basically did. That’s why they paid thousands of dollars to Egyptian Bedouin to help them enter Israel illegally. That’s why they didn’t stay in any of the countries along their way to Israel but came to Israel specifically.
            “are FAR more open and welcoming and accepting of black African refugees” – that’s great. They are not a tiny country like Israel with enough problems of its own, a country which is not the answer to the African continent economical troubles.
            “begrudging about the “infiltrators” and “work migrants” among them” – you really have no clue what is going on in South Tel-Aviv do you. How clueless are you ? you claimed to be an Israeli, do you honestly don’t have a clue about what I posted in the Facebook comments section or is this again part of your selective processing of reality thing ?
            “is something like this” – If they are indeed refugees they should be treated as such.
            Like I said, they should be sent to other areas in Israel, not South Tel-Aviv. And they should be allowed to work. This will help significantly reduce the problems I show in the Facebook comments section.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            @Ido: None of this has face-plausibility. At the same time your seeming obtuseness seems unmatched by anyone except the incomparable Halevy. Just why is it that you, persistently, cannot grasp how “Book of Joshua” makes sense as a riposte to the frankly judeofascist-on-the-march, mass-transfer-and-killing-endorsing Lewis? Have you ever read the Tanakh? Have you ever read Lewis? What interminable concreteness, what deficit of imagination, what nudnik-fever grips you on this? What is it that in this context prompts you to go into quite amusingly beside-the-point, missing-the-point expostulations on ancient Hebrew history and mythology? The rest of it either isn’t plausible or suffers from the same (deliberately? unwittingly?) misplaced concreteness. Let’s just put in our thumb and pull out a plum: “it means “Jews” not settlers.’ That’s a quite interesting having-it-both-ways formulation there, as, last I checked, the settlers themselves, and the bulk of the Israeli Jewish populace behind them, see their being Jewish as the very, the only, justification for their being settlers at all. That is, this logical operation applies (by consensus!): Settler if and only if Jewish. So just what is your point other than to cheaply anti-Semitize? As if we were born yesterday? You, who want to talk about “gaining status by genetics” except when you don’t, another having-it-both-ways plum. If the Han Chinese or the Alaskan Inuit start invading the West Bank and establishing settlements and pushing people around I can guarantee you that selling houses to Chinese or Inuits will come with a price. Good grief, you will do anything to avoid taking responsibility for BEHAVIOR.

            P.S.: “they should be sent to all parts of Israel, not just South Tel-Aviv”
            I agree. See? We can agree on something. I don’t take you to task just for the sake of opposing you. But I don’t two-step it and follow that with “they aren’t really refugees anyway, because I said so cuz I just know (even though my government has very assiduously avoided determining that for the vast majority of then and we have to wonder why don’t we?).”

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “None of this has face-plausibility” – then prove it. Address it. The evidence is right there. The posts are right there, refuting your usual nonsense in detail.
            “how “Book of Joshua” makes sense” – you specifically used this nonsense to question the justification of Israel’s existence. You did this to me as well. I have no idea why you’re lying about this.
            This is not ‘a riposte’, this is you being clueless about the history of the Jewish nation and people in their historic land of Israel. You have said in the past that such nation doesn’t exactly exist. I have proved you wrong just like I did here, you again ignore the posts and the evidence I provided.
            Why is that ? you think I won’t notice ? I explained in the posts above how you are wrong about this, please address it.
            “mass-transfer-and-killing-endorsing Lewis” – Again: this is not about Lewis. This is about you being a clueless liar ‘Useful Idiot’ who doesn’t know what he’s talking about. The evidence refuting this nonsense of yours is in the Facebook comments section. Please address it.
            “Have you ever read the Tanakh” – Again: Israel is the historic homeland of the Jewish people, do you understand ? not based on a fantasy fairy-tale, on actual physical historic evidence. Why is this so hard for you to grasp ? how many times have you either ignored this or pathetically dodged this part ?
            “beside-the-point, missing-the-point” – are you trying to lie your way out of the fact that you made the same argument to me ? that you claimed the Jewish nationality doesn’t exactly exist ? really ? you’re going to sink this low ? must be a record.
            “xpostulations on ancient Hebrew history and mythology? ” – Again: physical historic evidence. Undeniable evidence I can bang you over the head with. I provided you with countless of links to lots of evidence which you simply ignored.
            What’s with you and your denial of reality ? is this a medical condition ?
            “hat’s a quite interesting having-it-both-ways formulation there” – nope, that’s a fact. The anti-semitic Arab law existed before the settlements existed. I proved this to you, I believe at least twice before. Why are you still lying about this ?
            “he bulk of the Israeli Jewish populace behind them, see their being Jewish as the very, the only, justification for their being settlers at all” – this is hysterical, your pathetic squirming attempt to save face again is adorable.
            The law existed before the settlements, do you understand ? the law also applies to Jews buying land within the Green Line, do you understand ? I caught you being clueless about this law before, you don’t remember ? is any of this too complicated for you to understand ?

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “what is your point other than to cheaply anti-Semitize” – my point is you’re a clueless idiot who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, as proven yet again.
            “You, who want to talk about “gaining status by genetics” except when you don’t” – you again pathetically completely ignored the subject at hand, realizing I’m 100% correct, and changed the subject as usual. How about addressing the post ? about the perpetual Palestinian “refugees” and the farce surrounding them ? instead of pathetically changing the subject again so you won’t have to deal with the uncomfortable reality ?
            “I can guarantee you that selling houses to Chinese or Inuits will come with a price” – you justified murder of Palestinians. I repeat: you “understood” the brutal torture and murder of Palestinian land brokers who sold private land. This adds a whole new perspective, very interesting.
            “Good grief, you will do anything to avoid taking responsibility for BEHAVIOR” – Good grief, your justification of brutal torture and murder of palestinians is horrific.
            “We can agree on something” – oh sure. We also agree you just ignored large chunks of my posts, like for example the part about Ezra Nawi and how your link completely ignored the actual matter at hand of murdered palestinians, not to mention the rape of a boy. Truly a paragon of good will and character.
            And how you again ignored the evidence I provided, refuting your nonsense in detail.
            “I don’t take you to task” – ‘take me to task’.. as always I enjoy it when you finish with some light comedy.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            You lead off with the usual ritual incantation that is meaningless, striking out on the first pitch, and it descends from there, a kind of hash of presumptuousness, misrepresentations, distortions, untruths, prevarications, confusions, misunderstandings, nudnikisms, weasel-maneuvers, blatant hypocrisies, ad hominems and a few other things I can’t even describe. In a kind of grand hyperconfusion. Exponential confusion, asymptotic. And that’s being polite. I stand by every sentence, phrase, word, syllable and letter of mine. Bye bye.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            How does asking you to address my posts ‘meaningless’ ? how does pointing out that I refuted your nonsense, the same clueless nonsense I refuted in the past, ‘meaningless’ ? how does pointing out how everything I said, proving you wrong, is backed by evidence you are again refusing to address ‘meaningless’ ? why are you behaving like a joke ?
            “a kind of hash of presumptuousness, misrepresentations..” – why are you ignoring the fact that the posts refuting your clueless nonsense are right there ? why are you refusing to address them ? why are you again ignoring all of this ?
            How can you not be aware that responding with this ridiculous nonsense does nothing but further illustrate your inability to deal with the fact that you had no idea what you were talking about ? the posts are right there, the evidence is right there, why are you lying ?
            “ad hominems” – and once again I will point out how you have no idea what that means. I addressed your “argument”, explaining why you’re wrong, backed by evidence. This is not ‘ad hominem’, this is you ignoring my posts showing very clearly how you are a clueless liar.
            ” I stand by every sentence” – so you verify that you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about. Not being able to address my posts and evidence. That’s great. Thank you.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Back to that plum for a minute, if I may: ‘it means “Jews” not settlers.’

            In fact what you are doing is not really different from what Simone Zimmerman points to Netanyahu and Bennett doing:

            ‘Following the massacre, Prime Minister Netanyahu tweeted, “They were killed because they are Jews… We must never forget that….Others were even more explicit with their message. Naftali Bennett, Israel’s diaspora and education minister, who flew to Pittsburgh to participate in the memorial hosted by the local federations, said, “From Sderot to Pittsburgh, the hand that fires missiles is the same hand that shoots worshippers. We will fight against the hatred of Jews, and anti-Semitism wherever it raises its head. And we will prevail.”’
            https://972mag.com/wish-mourn-pittsburgh-one-jewish-people-cant/138385/

            Where’s the beef? Can I have some beef with my plums?

            Just connecting the plums, I mean the dots, connecting the dots.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “Back to that plum for a minute” – how about addressing my posts ? and the evidence refuting your clueless nonsense ? how about starting with #1, your “Book of Joshua” nonsense and your ignorance, selective or otherwise, about the historic link of the Jewish nation and people to their ancestral homeland, Israel. As I recall you also mentioned to me in the past how the Jewish nationality doesn’t exactly exist, I of course refuted this lying nonsense in detail in the past as well. As I recall you simply ignored the evidence then as well.
            “In fact what you are doing is not really different from” – you had no idea about the history and implications of this racist anti-semitic Palestinian law. I proved this in the past, I’m sure you remember.
            “They were killed because they are Jews” – this has absolutely nothing to do with what I said or the actual subject. Fact: the law prohibits selling of property to Jews, not settlers. Fact: it exists and was used before settlements exists. Fact: it also applies within the Green Line. You had no idea what you were talking about, as usual.
            “Where’s the beef?” – Why are you having such a hard time dealing with these facts ? why are you pathetically attempting to change the subject again ? why are you again ignoring almost everything I posted ? refuting your clueless nonsense in detail ? Why are you again ignoring the evidence I provided ? it’s right there in the Facebook comments section.
            start with #1, I listed them by section for your convenience.
            Later we can move to you justifying the brutal torture and murder of Palestinians and your support for the kid rapist and murderer by proxy Ezra Nawi.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            So good ol’ cheap anti-Semitizing and feigned helplessness wasn’t enough this time, so Ido had to show his true character and pull out his really big gun—child rapists. Now he crudely insinuates we support child rapists. Whoooeeehh. What a swell guy is Ido. If I wanted to emulate him and be a dick I could say something similar about a rightist Israeli Jew. But since I don’t want to be a dick I’ll instead ask Ido a fair question: To what extent do you support the terrorists of the IDF-settler complex? Described here ==>

            Israel Is the Terrorist
            Young Palestinians are not carrying out acts of terror- they are leading a desperate struggle against an army that is a thousand times stronger than they
            Ilana Hammerman
            Apr 05, 2018
            https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-israel-is-the-terrorist-1.5976966

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): Again not addressing my posts, again ignoring how I refuted all your clueless nonsense in detail, again simply ignoring the evidence I provided.
            Why do you think behaving like a joke does anything positive for you ? seriously, I don’t get it.
            “do had to show his true character and pull out his really big gun—child rapists” – what the hell are you talking about ? what about all the posts above showing how you have no idea what you’re talking about ? here we see another example of your
            “strategy” to ignore the fact that I proved you’re a clueless liar by latching onto something you think you can work with, we’ll just ignore the other posts, right ? they don’t exist.
            “Now he crudely insinuates we support child rapists” – Why are you lying like this when the post is right there ? I said your support and defend the nice gentleman in question, Ezra Nawi. This is what you did, your post is right there, why are you behaving like a child ?
            “What a swell guy is Ido” – hilarious coming from someone who went to great efforts and mental gymnastics to justify the brutal torture and murder of Palestinians, see the posts above. We’ll just ignore that part, right ? like the other posts.
            “I could say something similar about a rightist Israeli Jew” – sure, changing the subject has always been a favorite tactic of yours to evade addressing the many posts showing in detail backed by evidence how you have no idea what you’re talking about.
            “To what extent do you support the terrorists of the IDF-settler complex” – oh I’ll change the subject and answer your question by all means, after you stop ignoring the posts above showing in detail how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about. After you stop ignoring the evidence showing how clueless you are, all right there. I even numbered some of them for your convenience, so start with #1:
            It’s not the “Book of Joshua”. It’s a historic fact. Which you can touch with your hands. Israel is the historic homeland of the Jewish people as proven by historic evidence. And Jews have kept a presence there throughout the centuries, even post diaspora.
            It’s the national birthplace of the Jewish people, their nationality and religion.
            You are either lying and feigning ignorance or simply actually have no clue about the Jewish nation’s historic ties to their ancestral homeland. Not to mention you said the Jewish nationality doesn’t exactly exist. The evidence is right up there, go.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “Israel Is the Terrorist” – oh yes, you can’t deal with the fact that I once again showed how you are a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about, so you’re going for the contingency plan, linking something you know I can’t read.
            Of course Israel is the terrorist, if you completely ignore the actions, goals and agenda of the Palestinian leadership. What you have been putting so much effort doing when I shove the evidence in your face repeatedly.
            “Young Palestinians are not carrying out acts of terror” – sure, besides the part about the bombings, stabbings, firebombs, missiles and rockets, etc. We’ll just ignore all of this as if it doesn’t happen.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “what the hell are you talking about ?….Why are you lying like this when the post is right there ?”

            Yup, the post is right there. It sure is. It’s a mystery to us what Daniel/Ido thinks he is getting away with. Really bizarre. It being really obvious just who is doing the lying, brazenly, in plain sight. There are smart criminals and there are dumb criminals. Ido’s antics on this page forever define him.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “It’s a mystery to us what Daniel/Ido thinks he is getting away with” – ‘getting away’ ? is this the new one ? no more “your evidence is fake” ? or “the Palestinian leadership are not important” ?
            why do you still insist on lying like this ? the posts do not exist ? showing in detail how you have no idea what you’re talking about ? how you’re a clueless liar ? why do you still keep ignoring the posts and the evidence backing them up ? how stupid can you be not realizing your inability t address the posts is an answer all by itself ?
            “he lying, brazenly, in plain sight” – hilarious.. then address the posts. Address the evidence. They are right there, showing in great detail how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about. And also someone who justifies the brutal torture and murder of Palestinians. What’s stopping you ?
            “Ido’s antics on this page forever define him” – now this is reaching new comedic levels. You have been exposed as a clueless liar again. As someone who obviously has no idea what he’s talking about, and this is you pathetic response ?
            Keep squirming, making stuff up about me, ignoring my posts repeatedly, ignoring the evidence I provided repeatedly, this will most certainly help your “argument”. I even numbered them for your convenience, go ahead. Why is this still impossible for you ?
            why are you so afraid to come to terms with the fact that you are a delusional ‘Useful Idiot’ who doesn’t know what the hell he’s talking about ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            IDO: “what the hell are you talking about ?….Why are you lying like this when the post is right there ? I said your support and defend the nice gentleman in question, Ezra Nawi.”

            What Ido actually said: “…your support for the kid rapist and murderer by proxy Ezra Nawi.”

            Enough said. Keep it in mind the next time this sleaze says “Why are you lying like this when the post is right there ?”

            As I said, it’s a mystery to us why someone deliberately does things like this in broad daylight out in the open. ​

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “Enough said” – why are you still lying like this when what you said is right there ? did you or did you not post a link about poor Ezra Nawi’s unjust persecution ? the post is right there. Judging by your posts you obviously had no clue he was not only responsible for the death and torture of Palestinians but also charged with the rape of a 15 year old boy. Death and torture of Palestinians you actually feebly attempted to “understand”. The posts are right there, why do you still ignore this after I called you on it 4 times now ?
            “Keep it in mind the next time this sleaze says” – Again: why are you ignoring the many posts showing in detail how you have no idea what you’re talking about backed by evidence you ignore repeatedly ? why are you behaving like a pathetic joke with these hilarious excuses not to do so ? what are you afraid of ?
            “it’s a mystery to us why someone deliberately does things like this in broad daylight” – it’s a mystery to me why you’re repeatedly ignore post after post backed by evidence showing in detail how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about.
            I even numbered them for your convenience, so start with #1:
            It’s not the “”Book of Joshua”. It’s a historic fact. Which you can touch with your hands. Israel is the historic homeland of the Jewish people as proven by historic evidence. And Jews have kept a presence there throughout the centuries, even post diaspora. It’s the national birthplace of the Jewish people, their nationality and religion. You are either lying and feigning ignorance or simply actually have no clue about the Jewish nation’s historic ties to their ancestral homeland. Not to mention you said the Jewish nationality doesn’t exactly exist. The evidence is right up there, go.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            This is just more prevarication, slander, distortion, black and white all or nothing thinking and mind-numbing repetition to the point that it’s almost neurological perseveration. Nichts Neues. It all amounts to an incredibly dumbed down simple-minded act, or view of the world. Stripped of all nuance and subtlety. Really, do you ever have an original thought? Including about ‘Jewish nationality’. Here, about Jewish nationality and the purposes to which you would have us put it ==> ==> ==>

            By Noam Sheizaf
            September 11, 2013
            Why I oppose recognizing Israel as a Jewish state
            A country can, at least in theory, be ‘Israeli and democratic.’ It cannot and will never be ‘Jewish and democratic.’
            https://972mag.com/why-i-oppose-recognizing-israel-as-a-jewish-state/78751/

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “This is just more prevarication, slander, distortion, black and white all or nothing” – why are you still lying like this when the posts are right there ? hoe can you not realize doing so is detrimental to your “argument” ?
            How is posting in detail where you are wrong backed by evidence “prevarication, slander, distortion, black and white all or nothing” ? if I’m wrong address it, prove it. I proved you have no idea what you’re talking about, you are now repeatedly ignoring the posts and evidence over
            and over and over again. Why is that ? why is this so hard for you ? the posts are right there, is it written in invisible ink ?
            “mind-numbing repetition” – that’s simply adorable, says the guy who repeatedly ignores my posts and evidence showing in detail how he’s a clueless liar, but is annoyed that I keep repeating how he’s wrong.
            “incredibly dumbed down simple-minded act, or view of the world” – then address it, prove it, back up your claims like I did mine. The posts are right there, I even numbered them for your convenience.
            “do you ever have an original thought?” – Here’s one: are you ever going to address the multitude of posts showing how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about ?
            “Jewish nationality” – you said the Jewish nationality doesn’t exactly exist, you lied or simply had no clue about the historic ties of the Jews to their ancestral homeland, you made incredible hilarious factually incorrect claims, I proved you wrong, again and again, why are you ignoring this ? see section #1 above.
            “Why I oppose recognizing Israel as a Jewish state” – This has nothing to do with your factually incorrect idiotic claim as I explained in detail 5 times now. This is you again pathetically attempting to change the subject to avoid addressing how you were wrong.
            “It cannot and will never be ‘Jewish and democratic” – of course it can and it is, read the Declaration of Independence, Jewish being nationality of course, not religion. An opinion piece from this news blog is not going to change this. Again this has nothing to do with me pointing out how you were wrong about the existence of the Jewish nationality and its history and historic ties to their ancestral homeland, this is you again pathetically trying to change the subject.
            The posts are right there, the evidence is right there, why are you again ignoring them as if they don’t exist ? go ahead, prove me wrong. Why is this so difficult for you ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Actually, Sheizaf’s article has everything to do with the nationalist uses to which you want to put “Jewish nationality.” I think it is one of the more illuminating and realistic articles published here. (A right wing person commenting here praised Sheizaf’s realism.)

            You’ve never once honestly represented what I or anyone else here says and I didn’t expect you to start now.

            “An opinion piece from this news blog is not going to change this.” “This” being Ido’s fixed ideas.

            Well, we know this. It may surprise you but we have no intention of changing your thinking. You are being used to make larger points. Truth be told, we view you as a kind of programmed propaganda robot, in which the code inside the hard drive commands: “IF anyone exposes the actual truth, THEN double down with denial, obfuscation, slander, and KICK IN the Slippery Evasion Loop program and RUN it simultaneously. AND RUN all of these programs this in an endless loop until the respondent stops responding, THEN go dormant and wait to reactivate.” (chuckle)

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “Actually, Sheizaf’s article has everything to do with the nationalist” – Again: not what you said, not what I responded to. I just repeated this and you again lie about this ? how do you rationalize this to yourself ? I’m honestly curious.
            “which you want to put “Jewish nationality.”” – And I repeat it again because you ignored it again: You were wrong about your non-existence of the Jewish nationality nonsense and clueless about basic history. This was not, I repeat: not about “Jewish and democratic”, this is you pathetically changing the subject. Again (part #1 from the posts above), 6th time: It’s not the “Book of Joshua”. It’s a historic fact. Which you can touch with your hands. Israel is the historic homeland of the Jewish people as proven by historic evidence. And Jews have kept a presence there throughout the centuries, even post diaspora.
            It’s the national birthplace of the Jewish people, their nationality and religion. You are either lying and feigning ignorance or simply actually have no clue about the Jewish nation’s historic ties to their ancestral homeland.
            “think it is one of the more illuminating and realistic articles” – it’s also not relevant to your factually incorrect comment or to my post refuting your clueless nonsense as I explained in detail, which you ignore again.
            “You’ve never once honestly represented what I or anyone else here says” – why are you lying when the posts are right there ? when the evidence is right there ? how can you fail to grasp lying like this is not exactly helping you, it’s actually the opposite.
            ““This” being Ido’s fixed ideas” – nope, like I said, read Israel’s Declaration of Independence. Jewish by nationality, not religion. And it’s irrelevant to what you said and what what I posted.
            “we have no intention of changing your thinking” – you apparently have no intention of addressing the many posts above showing how you have no idea what you’re talking about. And you keep changing the subject.
            “You are being used to make larger points” – right, ignore the many posts above showing in detail how you’re a clueless ‘Useful Idiot’, focus on the ‘larger points’. Not your best “strategy” and you tried this before when you asked “the folks” to not read my posts showing how clueless you are, remember ? good times. I liked better the “fake evidence” and “the Palestinian leaders are not important or influential” excuses, more hilarious.
            “IF anyone exposes the actual truth, THEN double down with denial, obfuscation, slander, and KICK IN the Slippery Evasion Loop” – this is hilarious, your lies and squirms to avoid addressing the posts above must be exhausting.
            What actual truth ? what denial ? what are you talking about ? the posts are right there, refute them, address them, prove me wrong with your “truth”, go ahead. Why is this so difficult for you ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            You’re not honestly curious about anything. You’re misrepresenting and twisty and devious. You’ve never once honestly represented what I or anyone else says. It is always twisted, taken out of context, misquoted, etc. A kind of mindless propaganda-slander-“backed up” ad-hominem-bot. Maybe you actually are a bot. The mind-numbing repetition of your posts suggests it. We still get a kick out of “backed up ad hominem” though. Admittedly an all-time great fatuosity and illuminating little window into the quality of your mind and heart. But I am harsh with you instead of going gentle on you with your obvious shortcomings because you really are a bad guy in terms of the way you treat people here. Your parents obviously never taught you manners. Or maybe they did and it just never sunk in. Bye bye. There is only so much time one can devote to you being you on the internet.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “You’re misrepresenting and twisty and devious” – why are you still lying like this when the posts are right there ? when the evidence is right there ? I don’t get it. What misrepresenting ? what twisty and devious ? go ahead, address my posts, I even numbered them for your convenience.
            Why can’t you do that ? why are you again and again ignoring how I explained in detail how you are a clueless ‘Useful Idiot’ ?
            “You’ve never once honestly represented what I or anyone else says” – how can I take you seriously when you lie like this ? so the posts above do not exist ? the evidence I linked in the Facebook comments section do not exist ?
            The posts are right there, I’m looking at them right now, why on earth are you still lying like this ?
            “It is always twisted, taken out of context, misquoted, etc” – that’s great, show me where, back up your claims. Prove it like I proved you have no idea what you’re talking about. The posts are right there, why is this so difficult for you ?
            “backed up” ad-hominem-bot” – and you continue to show how you have no clue what ‘ad hominem’ means. I addressed your posts, each part of them, refuted them, very clearly so backed by evidence you still refuse to touch. That is the opposite of ‘ad hominem’, why are you still embarrassing yourself like this ?
            “The mind-numbing repetition of your posts” – what a coincidence! you repeatedly ignore my posts backed by evidence showing how you have no idea what you’re talking about, and you’re puzzled by why I’m repeating myself ? hilarious..
            “We still get a kick out of “backed up ad hominem”” – I have no idea why you are still lying about this when the evidence you still refuse to touch is right there, when you don’t seem to have a clue what ‘ad hominem’ means even after I spell it out for you for a dozen times now.
            “But I am harsh with you instead of going gentle on you” – your pathetic excuses to not address the posts where I refute your nonsense never cease to amaze me. Now that is what I’m talking about. Bravo!
            “with your obvious shortcomings” – right, this is not about you ignoring post after post refuting your clueless nonsense backed by evidence you refuse to touch, it’s about my ‘obvious shortcomings’. You mention shortcomings ? I still can’t believe you pathetically tried to excuse the torture and murder of Palestinians. Another post you try very hard to ignore.
            “bad guy in terms of the way you treat people here.. Your parents obviously never taught you manners” – and as always I truly enjoy it when you finish with a hearty joke. Thanks for the laugh.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “why are you still lying like this when the posts are right there?…”

            Sorry, this won’t do. This is one of your stock tracks-covering manipulations. What post where? This may surprise you but no one, least of all me, goes back and wades through your scurrilous screeds, your clotted concoctions, your dense diatribes, your verbose verbigerations. Nor will we do that now. Life is too short. If we even read them in the first place–not a safe bet. Or tries to find “the evidence” in the twisted maze you leave in your wake. You numbered them? Numbered what? Who cares, just answer per the directions to follow.

            This is what you have to do. Specify:

            “Ben wrote “——” on xx/xx/20118 in this post on this page https….. It is a lie because [of this specific reason].”

            Be precise and succinct. No speeches, no interpretations, no diatribes, no cascades of “backed up ad hominems.” NO twistiness. Just the facts. Go get ’em tiger.

            We will reply.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “Sorry, this won’t do. This is one of your stock tracks-covering manipulations” – Please explain how you repeatedly ignoring posts backed by evidence showing you are a clueless liar who has no idea what you’re talking about us “stock tracks-covering manipulations”.
            You’re like a child saying “no I didn’t eat the cake!” when the cake is smeared all over your face. The posts are right there, the evidence is right there, i even numbered it for your convenience. Why do you think lying like this has any positive effect for your “argument” ? I don’t get it.
            Do you think it’ll somehow make the posts and links vanish ?
            “What post where?” – seriously ? sinking this low ? scroll up and stop lying like a child.
            “no one, least of all me, goes back and wades through your scurrilous screeds” – this is fantastic, so you’re insisting the posts where I refute your nonsense don’t exist because you refuse to read them. And you didn’t have to “go back”, you also ignored them the moment I posted them, you just skipped them as usual, like you to this moment ignore the evidence I posted in the Facebook comments section. Why are you so afraid to address my posts ? so you were caught being clueless, deal with it like an adult.
            “your clotted concoctions, your dense diatribes, your verbose” – interesting “rephrasing” of posts refuting your clueless lying nonsense backed by evidence you to this moment refuse to touch. I wonder why.
            “Nor will we do that now” – as usual I adore your use of the royal “we”. Of course not, why face the uncomfortable reality when you can continue being a delusional clueless ‘Useful Idiot’ ?
            “Or tries to find “the evidence”” – oh yes, it’s hidden under lock and key. Why do you lie like this ? how do you rationalize this to yourself ? I’m honestly curious.
            “You numbered them? Numbered what?” – Again what’s with the ridiculous lies of yours ? I only mentioned this 7 times now, repeating #1 for you about 4 times. How can I take you seriously when you lie like a small child ?
            “Be precise and succinct” – that’s an interesting “strategy” to continue and avoid posts and evidence refuting your nonsense. If only you didn’t simply skip them and ignored them repeatedly when you replied to them.
            “This is what you have to do” – this is what you have to do: address my posts, address the evidence, back up your claims, prove your argument, stop lying and making pathetic excuse not to address my posts.
            “backed up ad hominems” – and stop embarrassing yourself and read what ‘ad hominem’ means as I was doing the exact opposite.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “NO twistiness” – hilarious.. you again project what you have been doing all along on me. Don’t forget changing the subject repeatedly.
            “Just the facts. Go get ’em tiger” – thanks for the laugh. The facts you have been repeatedly ignoring are right there, you skipped them about 15 times, same with the evidence you ignore. Your new pathetic excuse to not address them adds a lot of credibility to your “argument”.
            “We will reply” – I’m sure your highness will, just as you replied the moment I posted them and not elegantly skipped what I wrote in your next post addressing specifically the post where I refuted your lying clueless nonsense.
            What’s your next pathetic excuse to avoid addressing my posts showing in detail how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about ? I must fill them in forms in 2 copies and fax them to you ? you’re a joke.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Too telling! He can’t do it! He can’t provide the “evidence”! I thought the posts were “right there”!

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            And I thought it’s not possible for you to appear more pathetic after the last hilarious pathetic excuses and lies not to respond to my posts. I was wrong. Jesus Christ man, I feel embarrassed for you.

            “He can’t do it! He can’t provide the “evidence”! I thought the posts were “right there”!” – you’re trolling, right ? or having some kind of stroke ? are you on something ? come back when you’re sober. I’ll pretend you didn’t just embarrassed yourself again with your hilarious pathetic excuses not to address the posts and evidence above where I show in detail how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            The posts, we were told over and over and over, were “right there,” and they were supposed to catch me out “lying,” and they were damning, and “hilarious,” and “pathetic”–Ido’s usual clownery–but when you ask him to actually put up or shut up and, very simply, provide a simple quotation, a sentence, exact words, undoctored, page and date, and explain clearly and succinctly why it’s a “lie,” without the usual verbose flimflammery and “shall I provide the links?” bullsh*t, and, by this, demand that he actually explain himself for once, he can’t do it. Ido can’t do it! Now, my exclamation point is rhetorical. No one is surprised. A con artist is like that. Ask him to move the cups on the table a little slower and more clearly, deal the cards with his sleeves rolled up and slowly now, he can’t do it. He folds up his table while yelling a lot of bluster and backs out of the room. Bookmark this page.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “but when you ask him to actually put up or shut up” – but I did ‘put up’, multiple times, over and over again backed by evidence you simply ignored. And now you come up with this um, “genius” strategy to avoid addressing it, lying as if I didn’t write post after post proving you wrong, over and over again backed by evidence you refuse to touch is the most pathetic thing I have ever seen so far here. And coming from you that’s saying a lot after your pathetic hilarious excuses in the past not to address my posts showing in detail how you are a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about (some highlights: “your evidence is fake”, “the Palestinian leaders are not that important or influential”, “I discount you”, etc..)
            So how do you rationalize this childish lying of yours to yourself ? thinking people will only read the bottom posts ? I’m honestly curious. Go ahead.
            “provide a simple quotation, a sentence, exact words, undoctored, page and date, and explain clearly and succinctly why it’s a “lie,”” – I did. Multiple times. Backed by evidence you ignored. It’s still posted above and in the Facebook comments section, right from the time you originally ignored all of it.
            Why on earth are you lying like this ? do you honestly think this will somehow help you in any way ?
            ““shall I provide the links?” bullsh*t” – why are you lying like this when the links are right there in the Facebook comments section as usual ?
            “by this, demand that he actually explain himself for once” – for once ? you really are banking on this ridiculous “strategy” of yours to avoid addressing my posts, aren’t you. Hilarious..
            “he can’t do it” – why are you still lying like a child when the posts you originally ignored are above you ? how can you not realize this makes you look like an even bigger joke ? if that’s even possible at this point.
            ” Now, my exclamation point is rhetorical” – now I’m feeling somewhat uncomfortable, as if I have been proving wrong someone who has some kind of mental handicap.
            “one is surprised. A con artist is like that” – you really are banking on this latest lying “strategy” of yours. Well, you get a point for tenacity. I’ll give you that.
            “Bookmark this page” – oh you can bet on this. This is on the level of the page where you made an effort to justify the torture and murder of Palestinian land property brokers. Definitely material for future reference. In a way I’m actually somewhat impressed.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            More bluster! He can’t do it. (He will never be able to do it and he knows it.) Ido fails the simplest, clearest test. (Of course, because he has always depended on making things unsimple and unclear.) Fakery exposed.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “More bluster! He can’t do it” – you skipped a round of meds or something ? why are you lying like this again ? or is this your idea of a joke ?
            “He will never be able to do it and he knows it” – um, the post after post showing how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about are posted above. The evidence backing it up is still posted in the Facebook comments section.
            Why on earth are you still clinging to this ridiculous lying “strategy” ? do you honestly think this has some positive effect for you ? how can you not realize lying like this turns you into an even bigger joke ?
            “Ido fails the simplest, clearest test” – are you having some kind of mental breakdown ? the cognitive dissonance of reading my posts and evidence, realizing you are a classic ‘Useful idiot’ who doesn’t know what he’s talking about with the effort to still cling to your delusional nonsense is finally taking its toll on you ?
            “he has always depended on making things unsimple and unclear” – right, besides the post after post proving you wrong backed by evidence you to this moment ignore. Posts and evidence you are lying about in the most pathetic way I have ever seen. Really. This is beyond ridiculous.
            “Fakery exposed” – liar who can’t deal with reality exposed once again. Excellent future reference, thank you. Do you honestly think this new “strategy” of lying about my posts and evidence is helping you in any way ? this is either trolling or mental breakdown. No other sensible explanation.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Oh there’s another explanation alright. Mr. Wriggler-on-a-Hook, flimflam exposed. That’s what tests are for. You failed the simplest test. We’ve made a note if it.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “You failed the simplest test” – still clinging to your ridiculous lies. Amazing. Really, this is mind boggling.
            I would really like to see your explanation for lying like this, how do you rationalize this to yourself ? you refuse to answer this as well.
            Do you bang your head on the monitor every time you see a post of mine showing in detail how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about ? to blur your vision so you can claim I never posted 50 posts explaining how you’re clueless ?
            Did you install a Facebook block plugin of sorts, so you won’t see the evidence I posted for everything I said ? showing in detail how you’re clueless ? so you can say I never provided evidence Like you just did several times ?
            “We’ve made a note if it.” – as I said, I actually wrote this page down. I have never seen anyone lie like this before. Really, this is phenomenal. Congratulations!

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            I’m pleased to know you consider me in the same company as Oren Cohen, Dean Issacharoff and Yehuda Shaul and the soldiers of Breaking the Silence. You’ve called all of us liars. But you, like so many Israelis, can’t explain why it is then that Israel produces such an extraordinary number of (in your eyes) traitorous lying soldiers. It’s a true scandal. Either Israel produces traitorous liars out of all proportion to other countries, or, these soldiers are telling the truth (are patriots). Which is it? I think they’re patriots. You see, that’s your dilemma. And no one on the Right has been able to answer this question in a way that makes sense. I just answered it in a way that makes perfect sense.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “I’m pleased to know you consider me in the same company as Oren Cohen, Dean Issacharoff and Yehuda Shaul and the soldiers of Breaking the Silence” – I don’t and I never said I did, I have no idea why you’re lying about this as well.
            This is a new “strategy” ? you lying repeatedly that the posts and evidence proving you wrong don’t exist started to seem too ridiculous even to you so you’re lying some more ?
            “You’ve called all of us liars” – you are actually very different in your reasons, actions and things you say. I don’t believe any of the above claimed the Jewish nation doesn’t exactly exist or any of them tried to justify the torture and murder of Palestinian land property brokers like you did.
            “can’t explain why it is” – seriously ? um, you’re still clinging to your hilarious lies as if the many posts and evidence don’t exist ? How can you not grasp doing so makes you look like a joke ? I don’t get it.
            “an extraordinary number of (in your eyes) traitorous lying soldiers” – this is great, it’s like your hilarious wrong claim about the popularity and circulation of ‘Ha’aretz’. You seem to have a very different interpretation of what ‘extraordinary number’ means.
            And most of the ‘Breaking the Silence’ soldiers are not lying, just what they are doing and how makes them a farce. I provided the link explaining this in detail many, many times and you ignore it every single time, why is that ? I’ll add it again in the Facebook comments section.
            “Which is it?” – I provided you with the evidence about the farce known as Breaking the Silence about 20 times, now once again. See above. You ignored it every single time. Why is that ?
            “I just answered it in a way that makes perfect sense” – you again ignore the many posts above and evidence in the Facebook comments section showing in detail how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about. And you lied repeatedly claiming no such posts or evidence exist.
            You’re a pathetic joke. a classic ‘Useful idiot’ and a very amusing liar.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            You called Dean Issacharoff a liar. You called Yehuda Shaul a liar. You called the organization of Breaking the Silence liars. You propagate “evidence,” aka links to dishonest hatchet jobs that slander them. You effectively do Ayalet Shaked’s work. Making Breaking the Silence the scapegoat for the failed policies of the occupation. Instead of facing the truth because you haven’t got the guts. It’s about core values. You effectively side with Ayalet Shaked. I side with the soldiers of Breaking the Silence. If they are such a “farce,” so easy for you to say, then why are Israelis so angry at and so afraid of a “farce”?

            “…All the testimonies we publish are meticulously researched, and all facts are cross-checked with additional eyewitnesses and/or the archives of other human rights organizations that are active in the field. Every soldier who gives a testimony to Breaking the Silence is well-aware of the aims of the organization and the interview. Most soldiers choose to remain anonymous, due to various pressures from military officials and society at large. Our first priority is to safeguard the soldiers who choose to testify to the public about their military service…”
            https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/about/organization

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            ‘The first claim, which in my mind is the most important and critical accusation to refute, is that Breaking the Silence is not credible. The organization’s critics come up with all sorts of reasons why the organization isn’t credible, but there is one rebuttal that is awfully difficult to refute: In the 11 years that Breaking the Silence has collected and published testimonies, there has not been one instance in which a serious error — not to mention a fabrication — has been found in their published testimonies.
            This is no insignificant point — it needs to be the heart of the debate. An organization that publishes hundreds of testimonies, which works with more than 1,000 soldiers, which has dealt with very complicated subject matter for 11 years — and not a single fabricated published testimony has ever been found. No court of law in any land can boast of such a record. And that is despite a number of attempts to fool the organization by giving them false testimonies. Their researchers and fact-checkers seem to have a perfect record of catching fabrications before publication.
            That astounding success is the result of the massive investment Breaking the Silence makes in every single testimony. As the organization’s director of research has written here in the past, every testimony given by a soldier or former soldier is fact-checked, and the background of the incident or testimony is verified along with the identity of the testifier him or herself (and that they are not an aspiring politician looking to make a name for himself). The entire testimony is then corroborated with any available information — both from other soldiers’ testimonies and open source information. Some of the most hair-raising testimonies collected by Breaking the Silence were never published because the organization could not independently corroborate them. Just imagine if journalists who published attack pieces on the organization applied their strict verification standards to their own work and the malicious things that are said about it.’
            https://972mag.com/why-do-so-many-israelis-hate-breaking-the-silence/114763/

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “not to mention a fabrication — has been found in their published testimonies.” -> again with the lies, incredible. Why are you ignoring the link I provided about them ? why are you again and again unable to address it ?
            their methods, half truths and deception are given as examples why they are a farce. You think that if you simply ignore it again for the 58th time it’ll go away ? well, sorry to disappoint you.
            How they are a farce is explained in detail in the link I provided, see the Facebook comments section, you have not addressed this once. Why can’t you seem to do this ? what are you afraid of ?
            “and not a single fabricated published testimony has ever been found” – blatant lie:
            http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/215019

            In the comments section in the link you provided there are examples of evidence of their lies and slander, how can you not grasp that you’re wrong when the posts in your own link contradict you ?

            And why are you again ignoring the many posts and evidence showing in detail how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about ? how you lied over and over and over again claiming no such posts or evidence exists ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “You called Dean Issacharoff a liar. You called Yehuda Shaul a liar” -> and when I did I provided proof, evidence for what I said. Including a video of one of them lying on camera. Which you refused to address. Sounds familiar ?
            “You called the organization of Breaking the Silence liars” -> nope, I called them a farce. They do sometimes lie (as I proved) but not always of course as I said as well. I only mentioned this 4,852 times so I understand why you missed it.
            “You propagate “evidence,” aka links to dishonest hatchet jobs that slander them” -> claiming it’s ‘dishonest hatchet jobs’ by you does not make them as such. This is what a child does. An adult addresses the evidence and refute it. Why can’t you seem to do this ?
            “You effectively do Ayalet Shaked’s work” -> still clinging to your pathetic lie about my evidence and Ayelet Shaked I see. You think that if you repeat her name enough times somehow my evidence and posts will actually have something to do with her ? keep trying. Let’s see how that works for you.
            “Making Breaking the Silence the scapegoat for the failed policies of the occupation” -> Again: not what I said, not what my evidence says, stop lying like a small child and address the evidence.
            “Instead of facing the truth because you haven’t got the guts” -> that’s hilarious coming from someone who to this moment refuses to face the truth because he can’t deal with reality, on so many other examples here as well.
            “You effectively side with Ayalet Shaked” -> nope, I don’t. Keep trying to spin this nonsense, still not working. I side with the truth, see the posts and evidence I provided, that you are still ignoring to this very moment.
            “why are Israelis so angry at and so afraid of a “farce”” -> angry, yes. Afraid, not so much and the explanation why is written in the evidence you to this moment ignore.
            “the testimonies we publish are meticulously researched” -> Again: the explanation why they are a farce is explained in the link I provided which you ignore to this moment. I’ll add some more link with examples for their lies for you to ignore in the Facebook comments section.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            I absolutely love the way Channel 10’s ‘Hamakor’ in their “Investigative Report”
            and “Fact Check” (LoL) posed Avner Gvaryahu’s testimony (about a soldier in his unit who was upset that he missed his shot at an unarmed Palestinian) against the soldier in question’s alternative account (that the Palestinian had thrown two grenades at the unit)–and simply because the soldier issued a denial Hamakor confidently concluded Gvaryahu was lying! Laughable. But then, Hamakor gets even more ridiculous and takes the *the same soldier’s* counter-narrative versus Gvaryhahu’s about whether beatings of arrested Palestinians were routine occurrences versus the exception rather than the rule. And the soldier’s counter-narrative that in any case were only “light beatings.” And *again* confidently concludes that Gvaryahu *must have* exaggerated. These are the kinds of “evidence” and “proof” Ido Geller has been touting all these years!

            What all of this adventure in Ido citing Channel 10 and such like as truth tellers should remind us of is exactly what Oren Cohen just wrote about:

            “The media wants to align itself with what it thinks the public wants to hear.”*

            * As a journalist, I learned not to believe anything the Israeli army says
            https://972mag.com/journalist-first-intifada-learned-believe-idf-says/138505/

            (Never mind linking to Arutz Sheva’s account on this. But Ido is not effectively Ayalet Shaked’s eager handmaiden? Wow.)

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “kinds of “evidence” and “proof” Ido Geller has been touting all these years!” -> why are you lying like this ? how can I take you seriously when you can’t stop lying ?
            If you’re going to mention the Channel 10 documentary about ‘Breaking the Silence’, why not actually address all the data from the actual documentary ?
            How about what journalists Baruch Kra and Raviv Drucker stated about ‘Breaking the Silence’ after they reviewed the data in question ?
            See the link in the new post in the Facebook comments section (#1). I’ll number each link in the same post for convenience. So you can ignore them better.
            “posed Avner Gvaryahu’s testimony” -> and the testimonies of his unit members who point out his mistakes, inaccuracies and colorful imagination ? See link #2 on the same post.
            “and simply because the soldier issued a denial Hamakor confidently concluded Gvaryahu was lying” -> no, no, let’s take Avner’s word for it. After all, as the documentary show he is paid quite well for it.
            This is min 43.50 in the video. The guy from breaking the silence simply forgot to mention how the Palestinian also threw 2 grenades. 1 exploded which triggered the actual shooting.

            “counter-narrative versus Gvaryhahu’s about whether beatings of arrested Palestinians were routine occurrences versus the exception” -> min 44.47, Avner wasn’t lying. He was simply exaggerating for dramatic effect.
            “*the same soldier’s* counter-narrative” -> but it’s OK to keep taking in the info from Avner himself who is proven to be not exactly objective as the documentary shows, right ?
            ” These are the kinds of “evidence” and “proof” Ido Geller has been touting all these years! ” – right, let’s ignore the hundreds of posts and the huge amount of evidence and proof showing very, very clearly that you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about because of a tiny section of documentary which shows 2 different accounts of the same incident, never mind all the rest of the data and issues with ‘breaking the Silence’ which you again ignored. Makes sense.

            “Ido citing Channel 10” -> citing a research based on interviews and testimonies refuting the lies, inaccuracies and exaggerations of breaking the silence, but you cling to 2 events described in an hour and 10 min movie, simply ignoring all the rest.
            Why is that ? how about all the voice recordings ? their funding ? how they lied about their activities abroad ? how the number of their testimonies dropped sharpy as time went on up to 2015 (one) 2016 ? (zero) ? One would think there would be hundreds if not thousands.

            “what Oren Cohen just wrote about” -> so this somehow excuses you from addressing the many posts and evidence above showing how you’re a clueless liar ? how you lied the posts and evidence don’t exist ?
            “what Oren Cohen just wrote about” – at least he didn’t claim the Jewish nation doesn’t exactly exist or tried to justify the torture and murder of Palestinian land brokers like you did.
            Did he write about ignoring a huge amount of posts and lots of evidence showing very clearly how you’re a clueless liar ? why are you changing the subject again ? the posts are right there, the evidence is right there. Why is this so hard for you ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “Avner himself who is proven to be not exactly objective as the documentary shows, right ?”

            Wrong. And this gets back to your intractable problems with misusing the word “proven.” The documentary “proves” absolutely nothing about Avner Gvaryahu. Or Breaking the Silence. It stacks up an implicated soldier’s denial against Gvaryahu’s allegation. And a bunch of pandering TV journalists then tell the public what it wants to hear. You are calling that proof! That is laughable. You’re the one alleging Gvaryahu is lying! Where is the proof! Where’s the beef?!

            “After all, as the documentary show he is paid quite well for it”.

            And then inevitably we get the Herr Sturmer settler video style slander thrown into the pot (respectably faint-tinged in Ido’s case—he wants to pose as somebody above that). They do it for the money! They do it for filthy lucre! So Ido slyly insinuates! Again, how is it that Israel produces such a bonanza of low-down, money-grubbing, sleazy traitorous soldiers? No one on the Right can answer this for me!

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “Wrong” -> so you also skipped the documentary ? where they show that ?
            “The documentary “proves” absolutely nothing about Avner Gvaryahu” -> Again: how about all the voice recordings ? their funding ? how they lied about their activities abroad ? how the number of their testimonies dropped sharpy as time went on up to 2015 (one) 2016 ? (zero) ?
            then if all the other witnesses claim he is lying or exaggerating prove nothing then his testimony also is not valid. I’ll just use your “logic”.
            “Or Breaking the Silence” -> you mean all the other information in the previous post which you ignored ? how the documentary show very clearly their not so honest actions and what they say ? I linked the documentary itself, next to the other many links you ignored and lied how they don’t exist.
            “And a bunch of pandering TV journalists then tell the public what it wants to hear” -> interesting interpretation of how journalists viewed the ‘Breaking the Silence’ testimonies and found them lacking and explain what that is. But don’t let the actual facts confuse you.
            “You are calling that proof! That is laughable” -> no, testimony from an organization of proven liars, as is shown in the documentary, see all the other facts you ignored explained in the post above, is serious business. The info about their funding sure explains a lot.
            “You’re the one alleging Gvaryahu is lying!” -> as his own unit members say. ALso not telling the whole truth, as detailed in the documentary, to further his agenda.
            “Where is the proof! Where’s the beef?!” -> linked it and explained it in detail in the Facebook comments section. Like all the other huge amount of links and evidence you ignore to this moment.
            “And then inevitably we get the Herr Sturmer settler video style” -> um, their funding and who is behind it is shown very clearly in the documentary, based on what ‘Breaking the Silence’ admit themselves. It’s all right there. Are you playing dumb again ?
            “They do it for the money!” – not at the beginning maybe, but later the millions sure seem to help. It’s all right there. They actually talk about it. You skipped this part ?
            “slyly insinuates” -> so you missed that part of the documentary ? or was it selective watching like your selective reading ?
            “sleazy traitorous soldiers?” -> oh I’m sure their intentions were good, with some lies and exaggerations mixed in as the documentary shows very clearly. The money didn’t hurt as well later on I bet. ‘Usful Idiots’ or not, they are still a farce as my link clearly show.

            And why are you still ignoring the many posts and evidence showing in detail how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about ? the posts and evidence, which you lied and claimed don’t exist, are right there. Go right ahead.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            This is Ayalet Shaked-work. And nothing in the documentary or that you say gainsays the integrity of Breaking the Silence and thousands of their testimonies. None of it rises to the level of “evidence” never mind “proof.” Just amazing to me that someone thinks, and thinks he can sell to objectively-minded people the proposition, that the denials of some IDF soldiers or other members of Israel’s IDF-worshipping society should be “evidence” that Breaking the Silence lacks integrity. That by itself is evidence of cult-like thinking. Half the Israel populace was eager to believe, too, Elor Azaria’s denials about what he did and why he did it.

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          • Ben

            In fact it is just *because* many IDF soldiers will not break the silence, *because* they see silence, and silence-keeping denials, as patriotic, that Breaking the Silence exists in the first place. And that they had to go outside Israel when nobody would listen and when they were persecuted inside Israel. You have to grasp this fundamental point to grasp why you are simply not making the point you think you are making, but rather something like its opposite.

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          • Ido

            “This is Ayalet Shaked-work” -> still trying to link me to her I see. And you asked me where did you lie ? should I repeat how I never mentioned her, quoted her or she isn’t in any of my links above ? you’ll just lie again and try to squirm and spin it some more like you did after what you originally said about me and her.
            “And nothing in the documentary or that you say gainsays the integrity of Breaking the Silence” -> now that’s an obvious lie. I’ve seen the documentary. You are again ignoring what I said twice now about the things you simply ignored (voice recordings, their funding, how they lied about their activities abroad, etc).
            “thousands of their testimonies” – the reporters address this point specifically, how they find the way the testimonies were taken and why it’s problematic. One (Raviv) was actually a Breaking the Silence supporter.
            Some more details on their lies:
            https://bit.ly/2FtSjzY

            “None of it rises to the level of “evidence” never mind “proof.”” -> now that’s a lie as the link above show very clearly.
            “Just amazing to me that someone thinks” -> it’s amazing to me how you ignore the huge amount of posts and evidence, covering many other subjects, showing how you’re a clueless liar, once again. And then you lied and claimed they don’t exist. Amazing.
            “should be “evidence” that Breaking the Silence lacks integrity” – that is not even a question as the documentary shows very clearly. You really have a very hard time dealing with this.
            “That by itself is evidence of cult-like thinking” -> utter nonsense. As I said some testimonies were not a lie, how they used them and what they do with them makes them a farce. This is explained in the link you are now ignoring for about 50 times. It’s in the Facebook comments section. Are you going to lie again and claim no such evidence exists ?
            “Elor Azaria’s denials about what he did and why he did it” -> you mentioned you’re an Israeli, how come you are not aware how many Israelis like myself consider him a pathetic example of a soldier ? are you going to lie about this as well ?

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          • Ido

            “And that they had to go outside Israel when nobody would listen” -> yes, this is addressed in the link you ignore to this moment. They also receive millions from the places they visit.
            Some example: While abusing people’s unfamiliarity of events and of the law, they employ the dirtiest of tricks in the book. They take things out of context; knowingly create the false impression of atrocities where there are none; selectively apply standards which are held by no one else under similar circumstances; and most importantly, provide no verifiable evidence to support accusations of misconduct.
            The information presented by Breaking the Silence has nothing out of the ordinary or that has not been experienced by other armies. They present deviations from norms. The State of Israel is equipped and willing to address these. Except, Breaking the Silence, which waves the flag of virtue, refuses to cooperate. Etc.

            “you are simply not making the point you think you are making” -> well if you insist on lying and ignoring the evidence I provided, the many posts proving you wrong, no wonder you are talking nonsense.
            “but rather something like its opposite” -> says the guy who not only ignore the many posts above proving him wrong and the evidence backing it up about other issues as well, but also lies and claims said posts and evidence don’t actually exist.

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          • Ben

            All of this either deliberately distorts what I have said or what the documentary actually shows, or, in the space between that distorting, as a kind of empty filler, is the habitual gross, shameless misuse of the word “liar.” I am content to leave it as laid out here, let others decide. Im Ido-Gebiet nichts Neues. Auf Wiedersehen.

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          • Ido

            “either deliberately distorts what I have said or what the documentary actually shows” -> how am I distorting what you said ? why are you lying when I linked the actual documentary in question and provided about 4 links with evidence backing what I’m saying ?
            Why are you still ignoring the parts about the voice recordings, their funding, how they lied about their activities abroad, etc ?
            Why are you ignoring the link explaining how what they are doing makes them a farce ?
            “as a kind of empty filler, is the habitual gross, shameless misuse of the word liar.” -> what are you talking about ? you repeatedly lied all over this comments section and I pointed it out every single time. You simply ignored it as always.
            You lied when you claimed no posts or evidence exist, like a small child who can’t deal with reality. Your own posts and me pointing it out multiple times are right there above.
            “I am content to leave it as laid out here, let others decide” -> oh you have no idea how much I agree with you on this. I was especially amused by your lies about non-existent posts and evidence when they are very much there.
            “Im Ido-Gebiet nichts Neues” -> so you won’t address the many posts and evidence about all the other issues you’re ignoring to this moment ? posts and evidence showing in detail how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about ? I’m shocked.

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          • Ben

            “What are you talking about?”

            You either know full well what I am talking about, which is bad, or you are pretending that you don’t know what I am talking about, which is very bad. You’ve cluttered up this page long enough. Here and halfway up this same page we’ve demonstrated that which needed demonstrating.
            Quod erat demonstrandum. Nihil novi. Vale vale.

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          • Ido

            “You either know full well what I am talking about” -> well yes, as I proved over many posts backed by lots of evidence, it’s your usual lying clueless nonsense.
            “you don’t know what I am talking about” -> I said that because you’re talking hilarious nonsense again and explained why that is, you of course ignore this and squirm some more.
            “You’ve cluttered up this page long enough” -> wow, you almost admitted the posts refuting your clueless lying nonsense exist, almost. Yes, exactly. There are many posts here showing in detail backed by evidence how you’re a liar who has no clue what he’s talking about.
            “we’ve demonstrated that which needed demonstrating” -> I like it when you use the royal “We”. Again, couldn’t have said it better myself. Lots of demonstrating.
            Quod erat demonstrandum. Nihil novi. Vale vale” -> oh yes, repeating the same nonsense but in Latin will definitely make the many posts and evidence you insist don’t exist go away. anytime now.

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          • Ben

            You’re right, in my haste I goofed. I should have said:

            You either know full well what I am talking about and are pretending that you don’t, which is bad, or you truly don’t know what I am talking about, which is bad. I’m happy to accept either explanation. Which one do you want to own up to? I’m guessing the latter, since it is your declared position.

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          • Ido

            Try not to hurt yourself with all that squirming, when the posts showing very clearly how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about, and of course the lots of evidence and links to other pages with examples to your cluless nonsnese are in the facebook comments section. Are you going to ask me to provide a detailed cited page number and line number and file it in 3 copies becaue you’re too dumb to scroll up and down to read posts you initially ignored as well ? that was hilarious. Keep lying and squirming, adds a lot to your creadibility and it is very amusing to see. And quite sad to be honest.

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          • Ben

            One copy only please, you are verbose enough, lord have mercy on us.

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          • Ido

            So you are too dumb to scroll up and down and click links. It all makes sense now.

            Ben: *clueless nonsense*
            Ido: not true, factually incorrect, here’s what you said and here’s why you’re wrong. Here’s the evidence. here are many other links to similar pages with detailed lists and evidence of your lies and clueless nonsense.
            Ben: so where is your evidence ?
            Ido: it’s in the Facebook comments section, Like I said 50 times.
            Ben: aha! so you have no evidence!
            Ido: you’re joking, right ? it’s right there.
            Ben: so you don’t have anything! where are your posts ?
            Ido: are you blind ? it’s right where they are when you initially skipped them.
            Ben: so you have no posts! aha!
            Ido: are you too dumb to scroll up and down ? the Facebook comments section is invisible ?
            Ben: um.. it’s all propaganda! yeah, that’ it!
            Ido: fine, then refute it. Prove it. Back up your claims like I backed mine.
            Ben: so where are your posts ?
            Ido: do you have brain damage ?

            Stop embarassing yourself. This new “strategy” is more pathetic that your usual hilarious stuff.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            The Test, please. You are not in compliance and are substituting your usual tricks. One problem you have is that we know you. A fuller answer was given to you today higher up on this page. Thanks.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Ah yes.”the test”. Ben’s new brilliant strategy to avoid addressing my posts where I pointed out in detail how he is a clueless liar. Posts that are all over this page and other pages linked in the Facebook comments section. Many posts backed by evidence he refused to touch because doing so will force him to confront the fact that he’s a clueless liar so what better way is to come up with tricks and hoops to lie and squirm his way again from addressing the posts showing in great detail how he’s a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about ? gave you a fuller response up there. You don’t seem to be able to scroll up though so ask your supervising adult for help.

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    5. john

      so then it’s an investment in israeli security, as bruce had it.

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      • Daniel

        That’s not what Bruce ‘had’. He compared the aid given to Israel with the aid given to the Palestinians. As I said it’s not comparable.

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        • john

          he pointed out israel receives a lot of aid, you drew the comparison.

          Reply to Comment
          • Daniel

            He pointed it out specifically as a response to a post about the Palestinians receiving a lot of aid and ‘living on international charity’.

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          • john

            what i see are 2 true facts: palestinians rely on aid to live, aid currently at a record low. while israel receives more foreign aid than any other country on earth. it was your choice to say both why israel needs, and doesn’t need that aid.

            palestinians will still exist, even as they are killed by neglect and asymmetrical warfare – their identity remains a steadfast blot on israel’s conscience, despite itshak’s wish that their deaths will spell the end of their peoplehood.

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          • Daniel

            I fail to see how this has anything to do with my post. Israel’s aid does not compare in any shape or form to the Palestinian aid which was my point, his comparison.

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    6. Tom

      “Israel accepted it on the notion that the questions of withdrawal and refugees could be settled only through direct negotiations with the Arab States.”
      => The question of refugee has nothing to do with this resolution (you mistake with the UN 194, than Israel has never respected also)
      => Accepted ? by settling 600 000 people in the future state of Palestine ? by annexing east Jerusalem, the future capital of the future palestinian state ? by preventing any chance to have an independant continuous palestinian state, with souvereign borders ?

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      • Ido

        “The question of refugee has nothing to do with this resolution” – hence the part about withdrawal, which you ignored. I was quoting the UN document.
        “you mistake with the UN 194, than Israel has never respected also” – I didn’t ‘mistake’ it and due to the current demands of the Palestinians, Israel is not in the business of committing national suicide by allowing itself to become another Arab state. Yes, Israel respectfully disagrees to end itself.
        ” Accepted ?” – Accepted that the withdrawal and refugees issues will be settled only through direct negotiations. Maybe the Palestinians should first make peace among themselves. When Abbas dies, which could be any day now, things will get pretty ugly.
        Israel agreed on more than one occasion to withdraw from almost (about 95%) of the West Bank. The rest given in land swaps from within the Green Line. The Palestinians are yet to agree to allow a viable Israel to continue and exist and to stop calling for its elimination.

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