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Expulsion or not, Palestinians can declare victory at FIFA

As the vote on the possible expulsion of Israel from FIFA draws nearer, the Israeli delegation suddenly decides to discuss easing restrictions on Palestinian players, who just yesterday were deemed ‘security threats.’ What gives?

FIFA Chairman Sepp Blatter. (photo: Marcello Casal Jr./ABr/CC BY 3.0 BR)

FIFA Chairman Sepp Blatter. Palestinian Football Association head Jibril Rajoub has spent the last months lobbying to expel Israel from soccer’s international governing body. (photo: Marcello Casal Jr./ABr/CC BY 3.0 BR)

At this point, it is unclear whether FIFA will vote to expel Israel from soccer’s international governing body on Friday, or whether the vote will even happen in the first place.

What is clear is that a nonviolent Palestinian initiative akin to a sports boycott on Israel paid off. While the prime minister and the president of Israel are up in arms over a “strategic threat,” the Israeli delegation to FIFA will be busy finding ways to legitimize Israel in the eyes of the organization, especially in light of Israel’s treatment of Palestinian soccer players — the main reason behind the initiative to expel Israel.

[UPDATE: The Palestinian Football Association withdrew its decision to call on FIFA to expel Israel. Instead, the FIFA Congress passed an amended motion that will establish a committee that will oversee freedom of movement of Palestinian soccer players, Israeli racism and the status of Israeli teams based in the West Bank.]

According to Haaretz’s Barak Ravid and Moshe Boker, the delegation suggested issuing special entry permits that will allow soccer players to move more freely between Gaza, the West Bank and abroad; easing of building restrictions for soccer-related infrastructure in the West Bank; paying for some of the costs of sports accessories that Palestinians import through the Ashdod Port in southern Israel; and establishing a joint committee with FIFA and the Palestinians to solve issues that may arise.

According to the report, the head of Palestinian Football Federation, Jibril Rajoub, insists on an investigation of racism in Israeli soccer, as well kicking out teams based in West Bank settlements from the Israeli Football Association. These are legitimate demands, and there is a good chance they will be accepted by FIFA (it will be very interested to see how Israel will swallow the second one).

It is unclear how this story will end, but the very fact that Israel is willing to allow soccer players from Gaza to enter the West Bank tells the entire story. Why did this happen? Just yesterday, those same players were a terrifying security threat, and today? Or perhaps the Israeli government is all of a sudden willing to put its citizens at risk of being harmed by soccer players from Gaza, simply to prevent an expulsion from FIFA?

It is clear that the answer to these two questions is a resounding no. The only thing that has suddenly changed is that suddenly, Israel’s policy — which arbitrarily affects the millions of Palestinians living under Israel’s military regime on a day-to-day basis — becomes transparent and dangerous. All of a sudden a person in Israel will care about what happens to Palestinian soccer players, something that has never before happened here.

The same thing happened nearly half a year ago, when for the first time since 2007, the Israeli government allowed the exports of cucumbers from Gaza to the West Bank. Why didn’t it happen before? Because. There is a siege. A collective punishment of the entire population of the Strip. Why did it change? Because of the last war, and the recognition of a need for a change.

The Israeli public almost always views Palestinian boycott initiatives in a severely negative light. We do not engage in a serious debate about boycott as a nonviolent tool that promotes basic human rights; that allows for a political struggle without suicide bombers or firing rockets on civilians; and we never discuss the demands of the leaders of the Palestinian boycott movement. In the wake of the “boycott law,” which was upheld by the Israeli High Court of Justice, this kind of discussion is difficult to hold in the first place. That is, unless you unequivocally oppose boycotting.

The FIFA boycott episode reminds us that boycott initiatives won’t stop because of a law, but rather that they will continue making gains (in this case, perhaps because of the boycott law). And not just any gains, the kinds that should have been obvious to us from the get-go. From now on the Israeli government will likely allow freer movement for Palestinian athletes.

Students and lecturers, on the other hand, will continue to suffer from the harsh restrictions on academic freedom under Israeli occupation and siege. The same goes for members of the Palestinian Legislative Committee, workers, farmers or all those living in the occupied territories. Who knows how the next boycott initiative will force the Israeli delegation to do?

This article was first published in Hebrew on Local Call. Read it here.

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    1. Ben

      This says it all: Israel restricts the movement of Palestinian soccer players in the occupied West Bank, all the while allowing, in defiance of Fifa rules, five teams from illegal West Bank settlements to operate under the soccer federation and come and go as they please. The five teams are Ma’aleh Adumim, Ariel, Kiryat Arba, Bik’at Hayarden and Givat Ze’ev. That a team from Ariel should come and go as it pleases but all sorts of specious restrictions were placed on Palestinian teams is just the occupation in a nutshell.

      Reply to Comment
      • BigCat

        This how Team Israel very smartly out-played and defeated the Palestinians. Check this out, Benny:

        “I appeal to Jibril Rajoub… I want us to work together, I want us to cooperate, I want us to hug and embrace each other,” Eini said, addressing the congress in Hebrew.
        “There is one thing on which I disagree with you,” he said. “We must not involve politics and football.” He said the five teams Rajoub sought to ban were kids’ sports teams.
        “There are always differences of opinion… but if we can speak, we can always resolve our differences,” he said. We have proposed a joint committee (Israel, the Palestinians and FIFA)… and I hope we will be able to resolve all problems as they arise.” I call upon you to join me on the podium and shake hands,” he said, inviting Rajoub to join him on stage — an offer Rajoub rejected.
        “I am ready to come and shake hands, but let us vote, make a deal — me and you will cooperate under the umbrella of FIFA,” Rajoub said. “Let us vote for the items I have raised, then we can shake hands.” http://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-drop-bid-to-have-israel-banned-from-fifa/

        Mamamia, what a brilliant performance! Rajoub really has a donkey-brain and did not even understand what Eini was doing until the game was over! Oh dear….

        Btw. Benny,
        The teams YOU and Rajoub wanted kicked out are kids’ teams! Your hatred of Jews does stink. Go find a job and start taking care of yourself and fixing your own country first, and abandon your psychotic fixation on- and obsession with Jews and Israel that are no way no how any of your business.

        Reply to Comment
    2. Gustav

      “Expulsion or not, Palestinians can declare victory at FIFA”

      Oh goodie. Once again a so called Israeli rejoices about victory for our sworn enemies. Just shows what a mixed up lot some of us are.

      The Palestinian Arabs are still fighting their 100 year of war against us. They still want to eliminate the only Jewish state in the world and replace it by the 23rd Arab state. But some Jews rejoice about perceived Ararab victories against us and are perplexed when the rest of us are dismayed by them.

      What a crazy world we live in.

      Reply to Comment
      • Ben

        “Once again a so called Israeli rejoices about victory for our sworn enemies. Just shows what a mixed up lot some of us are.”

        Haggai is at least as Israeli as you are. I’m sure of that.

        “Sworn enemies” is your cherished talking point. Because you don’t ever want this to move off a zero sum game footing.

        As Greg said here, when will you see that this is not us vs them? ==>

        http://972mag.com/perpetrator-unknown-the-systemic-failure-to-investigate-settler-violence/107285/

        People like Haggai Matar, Yehuda Shaul, Noam Sheizaf remain eternal mysteries to you. How do we explain these facts of life? Perhaps you should take a second look at your assumptions? I myself am persuaded that Yehuda Shaul and Noam Sheizaf and Haggai are anything but “mixed up.”

        Reply to Comment
        • Gustav

          GUSTAV:“Once again a so called Israeli rejoices about victory for our sworn enemies. Just shows what a mixed up lot some of us are.”

          BEN:”Haggai is at least as Israeli as you are. I’m sure of that.”

          Yeah a mixed up Israeli who triumphantly crows about a perceived success of our enemies.

          BEN:”“Sworn enemies” is your cherished talking point. Because you don’t ever want this to move off a zero sum game footing.”

          I am not on a zero sum game footing. The Palestinian Arabs are. You Know, how I know?

          1. The Palestinian arabs still refuse to recognize Israel as the nation state of the Jewish people. Guess what, Benny, UN Resolution 181 mentions specifically a Jewish state. And they rioted immediately after the resolution was announced.

          2. The Palestinian Arabs still insist on the right of each individual Palestinian to choose whether they want compensation or to “return” to live in Israel. That would be, potentially, an additional 4 million Arabs becoming Israeli citizens. And that would be suicide for Israel because we would become a minority in our own state. So no thanks …

          BEN:As Greg said here, when will you see that this is not us vs them? ==>

          http://972mag.com/perpetrator-unknown-the-systemic-failure-to-investigate-settler-violence/107285/

          Never mind about what Greg said. He is not the oracle of all wisdom. The Palestinian Arabs still don’t accept a Jewish state and they still want to dismantle our Jewish state. That makes it us vs them.

          BEN:”People like Haggai Matar, Yehuda Shaul, Noam Sheizaf remain eternal mysteries to you. How do we explain these facts of life? Perhaps you should take a second look at your assumptions? I myself am persuaded that Yehuda Shaul and Noam Sheizaf and Haggai are anything but “mixed up.”

          Never mind about what you are persuaded by. I consider any person to be mixed up if they want what their self declared enemies want. In other words they want our demise. It is normal to consider suicidal people as mixed up people even if YOU don’t consider that to be so, Benny.

          Reply to Comment
    3. DavidGrant

      This is good news indeed. If this is what it takes to isolate Israel, then that is what it takes. There has to be a price to be paid for violating the human rights of the Palestinians. If a future Palestinian state were to violate the human rights of its citizens in the manner that Israel treats the Palestinians, then the tool could also be used.

      Reply to Comment
      • Gustav

        What Palestinian rights? The Palestinian Arabs have been waging a 100 year war on Palestinian Jews (now Israeli Jews). Have they been observing the human rights of Palestinian (Israeli Jews)?

        Of course NOT! Unless you call suicide bombings and rocket fires on Jewish civilians legitimate?

        Oh hell, I shouldn’t ask. Of course people like you do! Because according to you people Jews are not even human.

        Reply to Comment
        • Yeah, Right

          Gustav: “What Palestinian rights?”

          Notice the sleight of hand that allowed Gustav to remove A Very Important Word from the discussion?

          David spoke about “Human Rights”, and about how Israel has been violating “Palestinian Human Rights” (as, indeed, Israel has).

          Gustav then replies as above i.e. he removed the word “human”.

          Apparently he has a serious problem regarding Palestinians as human.

          Gustav, sunshine, do Palestinians have “human rights”?

          I want to stress that point: I’m not asking if Palestinians have “rights”, I’m asking if they have “human rights”?

          Would that be a “yes”, or a “no” from you?

          Reply to Comment
          • BigCat

            “Human rights” are a specie of the genus “rights”. A person’s “rights” includes that person’s “human rights”. The phrase “Palestinian rights” encompasses- NOT excludes “Palestinian human rights”, you delusional moron! Quit embarrassing yourself by continuously pretending to know stuff you completely have no understanding of.

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            BigCat: “phrase “Palestinian rights” encompasses- NOT excludes “Palestinian human rights”, you delusional moron! ”

            Gustav: “What Palestinian rights?”

            Thanks, dude, for agreeing with me: Gustav was insisting that the Palestinians do not possess any human rights whatsoever, he was just too gutless to come out and say it.

            Hence he had to remove the phrase “human rights” and rail instead against the much-more-nebulous concept of “rights”.

            You are just too funny, BigCat. You make my point for me, even when you think you are arguing against me.

            Reply to Comment
          • BigCat

            “Encompass” = “enclose; envelope; include; to have as part of something larger”, idiot.

            When Gustav uses the phrase “Palestinian rights”, that encompasses/includes/encloses/envelopes “Palestinian human rights”. The ‘later’ is contained in the larger ‘former’. When Gustav asked “What Palestinian right?”, he required of David to enumerate which Palestinians rights are violated as David claimed. Therefore, when YOU claimed that Gustav removed the word “human” from the phrase “Palestinian human rights”, because he does not see Palestinians as humans, you manifested utter stupidity, you confused and delusional moron.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            In short, sunshine, [Yeah Right].

            We ought to observe the human rights of Palestinian Arabs as much as they observe our human rights. Know what I mean, sunshine? They murder our civilians without any hesitatation. They call it martyr operations and carry out indiscriminate rocket fire, they celebrate it and they educate their children to do more of the same.

            Did I answer your question sunshine?

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            Gustav: “We ought to observe the human rights of Palestinian Arabs as much as they observe our human rights”

            Too funny. And this works the other way too, I presume?

            Remind me again: who is occupying whom?

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Yes it works the other way around too.

            Except that everything has a beginning. We were not the first to ignore THEIR human rights. THEY were the ones who started murdering us way back in the 1920s before there was “occupation”. And why did they do that? What was our crime? Because we dared to return to our ancestral homeland and joined our brothers who never left it.

            So you talk about tit for tat, sunshine? Well then, they started the ‘tit’ and we responded with the ‘tat’ ever since then.

            Too funny indeed…

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            Gustav: “Yes it works the other way around too.”

            You didn’t answer the second question, Gustav.

            Let me repeat it.

            Q: Who is occupying whom?

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            I did answer it, you comprehension challenged fool.

            I said “everything has a beginning…” Read that paragraph again.

            The occupation is a consequence of a long string of human rights violations by Arabs against us. Yes, your Palestinian Arabs violated OUR human rights since the 1920s and there was no occupation in the 1920s. So what was their excuse for murdering us then?

            Well, are you going to answer MY question, [Yeah Right]?

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            [Yeah Right] only wants to talk about the “occupation” not about what caused to bring it on…

            No doubt he would behave the same way if I would retaliate and hit him in the face AFTER HE hit me in the face…

            No doubt, then too, he would ONLY want to talk about me hitting him in the face but would be shy about mentioning what he did to bring it on…

            Reply to Comment
        • Yeah, Right

          Gustav: “Because according to you people Jews are not even human.”

          *chortle*

          Oh, the irony, considering that Gustav started his post by writing a three-word sentence that involved removing the word “human” from David’s post about the ongoing violation of the Palestinian’s Human Rights.

          Reply to Comment
          • BigCat

            Unsurprisingly you are as confused as ever, saying strange stuff with the **chortle** of a super-moron. See my reply to your first response to Gustav!

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “chortle”

            Idiot!

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            Gustav, be honest for once: were you even aware that when David said
            “violating the human rights of the Palestinians”
            you replied with
            “What Palestinian rights?”

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            You want me to be honest, [Yeah Right]? As if you even know the meaning of the word. But here goes:

            I respect the human rights of Palestinian Arabs as much as they respect OUR human rights.

            Is that honest enough for you, sunshine?

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            Gustav: “I respect the human rights of Palestinian Arabs as much as they respect OUR human rights.”

            But “you” are not “Israel”, Gustav.

            David pointed out (quite correctly) that Israel is violating the human rights of the Palestinians.

            Not “you”, but “Israel”.

            Now, do you believe that Israel can saw “What Palestinian Human Rights”?

            Or, put another way: do you believe that Israel has a right to act in a manner that is as bigoted as yourself?

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Israel has the right to be as bigotted as the Palestinian Arabs are.

            Or do you think only the Palestinian Arabs have the right to be bigotted?

            Of course you do, [Yeah Right], because you are bigotted too.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “The occupation is a consequence of a long string of human rights violations by Arabs against us.”

            That’s a blatantly dishonest statement. Everything else you say collapses on that rotten foundation.

            And are these systemic failures also “a consequence of a long string of human rights violations by Arabs against us”? ==>

            http://972mag.com/perpetrator-unknown-the-systemic-failure-to-investigate-settler-violence/107285/

            “Israel has the right to be as bigoted as the Palestinian Arabs are.”

            And on top of that, Gustav’s contribution to the problem is to pose a contest of bigotry. Let the biggest bigots win. You’ll win with flying colors with Eli Ben-Dahan and so many others on your team.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            GUSTAV:“The occupation is a consequence of a long string of human rights violations by Arabs against us.”

            BEN:”That’s a blatantly dishonest statement. Everything else you say collapses on that rotten foundation.”

            Really? What exactly is dishonest about it? I’ll tell you what though your smug lazy dismissal of 100 years of history IS dishonest.

            FACT: Before there was any “occupation”, before there was an Irgun, even before there was an Israel, since the 1920s, Palestinian Arabs have made it their business to indiscriminately murder Palestinian Jews. Don’t believe me? Read up about the Arab revolt and the Hebron massacre.

            FACT: In 1948, we the Jews accepted UN resolution 181 which recommended the formation of a Jewish state and an Arab state. The Arabs rejected it and rioted.

            FACT: After the Arabs lost their 1948 battle against us, they swore vengeance and they swore that they will eventually eradicate our Jewish state.

            FACT: As part of their strategy to defeat us, after 1948, the Palestinian Arabs formed their so called Fedayeen who continually infiltrated into Israel and carried out random acts of murder against Israeli civilians.

            FACT: In 1967, three Arab armies, Egypt, Syria and Jordan mobilized and lined up along our borders. Once again, they promised to finish the job which they attempted to do in 1948. They promised to destroy us.

            FACT: Indeed, in 1967, Jordan attacked us but they were defeated. That is how come we ended up controlling the West Bank.

            FACT: Despite their defeat, the Palestinian Arabs have not been willing to sign any peace deal and in the meanwhile they continued carrying out indiscriminate acts of terror against our civilians. They justify those attacks by pointing at the “Occupation”. What they don’t realize or don’t want to accept is that we will not end the occupation until they sign a peace deal promising to end the state of hostilities which they perpetrated against us for the last 100 or so years. Nobody else would react differently in our place.

            GUSTAV:“a consequence of a long string of human rights violations by Arabs against us”

            BEN: http://972mag.com/perpetrator-unknown-the-systemic-failure-to-investigate-settler-violence/107285/

            The problem with extreme leftists and extreme leftist publications is that they are experts at turning the table and pointing at the actions of Israel and Israelis without context.

            While I don’t condone settlers taking the law into their own hands, I do understand why they do it. They have to put up with sporadic Palestinian Arab acts if terror, violence and stone throwings so they do the same. Stupid but understandable. Stupid because it gives propagandists, like you Benny, the opportunity to point the finger and pretend that we are the instigators of violence.

            GUSTAV:“Israel has the right to be as bigoted as the Palestinian Arabs are.”

            BEN:”And on top of that, Gustav’s contribution to the problem is to pose a contest of bigotry. Let the biggest bigots win. You’ll win with flying colors with Eli Ben-Dahan and so many others on your team.”

            And what is your contribution, Benny? Your contribution is to IGNORE Arab acts of bigotry and to constantly blame us. That in itself is an act of bigotry, Benny. You are a bigot, Benny!

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “While I don’t condone settlers taking the law into their own hands, I do understand why they do it. They have to put up with sporadic Palestinian Arab acts if terror, violence and stone throwings so they do the same.”

            It’s SO interesting how you guys do that!!! “There we are minding our own business just quietly stealing our neighbors land and chopping down a few of their olives trees, beating ’em up, making their lives utterly miserable…and this is the thanks we get??!! Oy veh!”

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            GUSTAV:“While I don’t condone settlers taking the law into their own hands, I do understand why they do it. They have to put up with sporadic Palestinian Arab acts if terror, violence and stone throwings so they do the same.”

            BEN:”It’s SO interesting how you guys do that!!! “There we are minding our own business just quietly stealing our neighbors land and chopping down a few of their olives trees, beating ‘em up, making their lives utterly miserable…and this is the thanks we get??!! Oy veh!”

            You like it Benny? It’s yours…

            Now let’s get back to reality. It is interesting how you guys do that…

            … how you guys ignore history.

            A history of intransigence by the Arabs.

            A history of refusing to accept any compromise.

            A history of aggression, threats, blackmail and terrorism.

            Ahistory of hatred and hatefulness…

            This latest FIFA episode is a minor example of it. The real history involves much worse, it involves REAL terror and bloodshed by your Palestinian Arabs.

            … and it’s all just like water off a duck’s back for petty little propagandists like you, Benny. No matter what happens on the ground, you take a predictable pre-determined position, as if your life depends on it (it probably does- after all you have to deliver for your salary, don’t you?). According to you, the SaintPalestinians are not to blame for anything and Israel is to blame. And you constantly whine on behalf of “the poor Palestinians”. Did you say Oy Vey? Is that the echo of your own whining, Benny?

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            Gustav: “Israel has the right to be as bigotted as the Palestinian Arabs are.”

            No, being a bigot is not a “right” that anyone possesses.

            Gustav: “Or do you think only the Palestinian Arabs have the right to be bigotted?”

            Nobody has a “right” to be a bigot, Gustav.

            Gustav: “Of course you do, [Yeah Right], because you are bigotted too.”

            Oh, there’s a bigot in this talkback, and no denying. But it ain’t me.

            You and I both agree that it’s you.

            The only difference is that you see yourself as having a “right” to be bigoted, whereas I don’t accept that anyone has that “right”.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            GUSTAV: “Israel has the right to be as bigotted as the Palestinian Arabs are.”

            [YEAH RIGHT]:”No, being a bigot is not a “right” that anyone possesses.”

            Really? What [Yeah RIGHT] really means (or should mean) is that no one has the right to commit acts of bigotry. I agree with him on that. But being a bigot is a state of mind. And no one can control anyone else’s state of mind.

            And what did I say? I said that if the Arabs are going to be bigotted against us, then we have the right to be bigotted against them.

            In terms of acting out bigotry, again, if they don’t act by the rules of law then we too have to do whatever is necessary to stop them, even if bigots like [Yeah Right] call our responses acts of bigotry. Yes, I did say “whatever is necessary”. Whatever is necessary to stop their acts of bigotry even if our counter actions seem to be bigotted. We are not obliged to sacrifice the lives of our civilians on the altars of some lofty ideals which no other human being in history ever observed or observes when it comes to their own lives and the lives of their loved ones.

            GUSTAV: “Or do you think only the Palestinian Arabs have the right to be bigotted?”

            [YEAH RIGHT]:”Nobody has a “right” to be a bigot, Gustav.”

            Funny that, I could have sworn though that you implied that the Palestinian Arabs have the right to carry out acts of bigotry against us because of the “occupation”. Didn’t you say that?

            GUSTAV: “Of course you do, [Yeah Right], because you are bigotted too.”

            [YEAH RIGHT]:”Oh, there’s a bigot in this talkback, and no denying. But it ain’t me.”

            Ain’t it? Says who? Says little old you? And you are imparial? Yeah, Right, LOL.

            [YEAH RIGHT]:”You and I both agree that it’s you.”

            You mean you and little old you came to a consensus and agree with yourself. I certainly don’t, LOL.

            [YEAH RIGHT]:”The only difference is that you see yourself as having a “right” to be bigoted, whereas I don’t accept that anyone has that “right”.”

            The only difference is that you accept the Palestinian Arab’s rights to be bigotted and to act like bigots but you don’t accept our right to respond in kind.

            You know what that makes you, [Yeah Right]? It makes YOU a bigot!

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            Interesting. Gustav accepts that this is a belligerent occupation.

            So he is accepting that Israel has “authority” over the Palestinians, while also accepting that the Palestinians do no have any “authority” whatsoever over so much as a single, solitary Israeli.

            Quite how he sees the abuse of human rights as being in any way equivalent is therefore something of a mystery, since the state of Israel is unquestionably in a position to systematically abuse the human rights of Palestinians, whereas the state of Palestine is not in any position to return the favour.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “Interesting. Gustav accepts that this is a belligerent occupation.”

            Yes. And I also accept that “occupation” in itself need not be deemed to be a human rights abuse. Germany and Japan were occupied for years by the allies but nobody claimed that the Germans and Japanese had the right to murder allied civilians as a consequence.

            “So he is accepting that Israel has “authority” over the Palestinians, while also accepting that the Palestinians do no have any “authority” whatsoever over so much as a single, solitary Israeli.”

            One does not have to have authority over Israelis in order to commit atrocities against Israeli civilians. Obviously our pompous Mr [Yeah Right] hasn’t heard about terrorists. Nor does he accept the fact that Palestinian Arab society glorifies terrorism against Israeli civilians.

            “Quite how he sees the abuse of human rights as being in any way equivalent is therefore something of a mystery, since the state of Israel is unquestionably in a position to systematically abuse the human rights of Palestinians, whereas the state of Palestine is not in any position to return the favour.”

            No, [Yeah Right] does not see the equivalence between the murder of Israeli civilians and Israeli responses to such atrocities. I agree with him. Those acts are not equivalent. Israel is obliged to protect it’s own civilians and therefore it’s consequent police actions are justified. Anyone in our place would do the same and indeed history is full of examples of sovereign governments doing whatever is necessary to protect their civilians from terrorist atrocities.

            The Palestinian Arabs on the other hand have an option. They could end the occupation very quickly. All they have to do is to agree to peace terms. And two of Israel’s past prime ministers offered them very generous peace terms. Some would say, too generous…

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Quoting an extreme leftist like Lisa Goldman is your proof, Benny? How dishonest.

            That is exactly analogous to me quoting the words of Rabbi Kahane as proof. Would you accept that? Nah, of course you wouldn’t. So why should I treat the words of Lisa Goldman with any seriousness?

            Obviously, Benny, you can’t even argue your own case. Or more likely you are too lazy, so you point me to the article of an extremist like Lisa?

            You are a laugh a minute, Benny, and a waste of time and space.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Why bother? It’s so repetitious. And she said it well. Again you bear out Ari Shavit’s and Philos’ truth about you. And that you equate Lisa Goldman and Kahane is all the testimony we will ever need as to what kind of extremism has taken over the average Israeli. That and your blithe acceptance of “…and this is the thanks we get?!” Oy veh!” Which bears out Sternhell’s conclusion:

            “The problem lies deep within Israeli society. After nearly half a century of controlling the territories, most Israelis view the colonial regime as something to be taken for granted and the invalidation of the Palestinians’ rights as part of the natural order of things.

            The segregation of the buses was an interesting symbolic test that reflected reality. The average Israeli will rebel against apartheid only the day he’s barred from trading with Europe and has to wait three months for a visa to visit Paris.”

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “And that you equate Lisa Goldman and Kahane”

            Yes, shock horror, I do. They are BOTH extremists. One is a leftist extremist the other is a rightist extremist. At the extremes you people are all extremists. You too Benny. At the edges, you are twiddle dee and twiddle dum. Or to put it another way, dumb and dumber…

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            As a matter of interest, here is an excerpt from Lisa’s article…

            “when the leaders of the Israeli delegation, Tzipi Livni and Yitzhak Molho, entered the negotiating room, they knew exactly what the Palestinian price was. If they knew they had no intention of meeting that price, then these negotiations have been a fraud from the beginning. When you want to buy an apartment and the owner says the price is $1 million, you don’t offer him half a million. And you definitely don’t try to engage him in a long series of negotiations if he refuses to name his price at all.”

            Is she serious???!!!

            According to her, Abbas is selling us peace terms. But we are not selling anything. And according to her, Abbas has the right to set his price that he wants in order to grant us peace.

            Really????!!!

            I would have thought that peace is in the interest of both parties. But if I am wrong, if the idea is not peace for peace, then there is nothing to talk about. Nothing to talk about because the Arabs will just squeeze us dry like a piece of lemon. They will take the lands that we offer, East Jerusalem, force us to accept millions of “refugees” into Israel proper then will just finish what they set out to do back in 1947/48 and destroy the State whicccepted.

            That is Lisa’s idea of how the peace negotiations should proceed. According to her we are just a subservient party who should do what we are told. While the Palestinian Arabs are the ones who have to set the terms of surrender.

            I for one do not want “peace” on those terms. Because those terms will give us the type of peace which corpses enjoy. Eternal rest!

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Gustav’s eternal pose and resting place: The Israeli Goliath, armed to the teeth and backed by vast intelligence and secret police services and extensive cooperation with Palestinian services, is quaking in fear of giving up stolen land and cruel domination of another people…because of that fearsome Palestinian David. What baloney. Zeev Sternhell is definitely right.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “Israeli Goliath”

            Another stupid simplistic comment by Benny.

            There is no bigger Goliath in our time than America. Did that stop 9/11?

            And about the so called Israeli Goliath. A Goliath living in a very rough neighborhood which is gradually being taken over by ISIS. An Israel which is surrounded by 400 million Arabs and an Iranian regime which is hell bent on arming itself with nuclear weapons.

            Moreover, in the UN, who is the goliath? Israel? Or the Arab Muslim block?

            Yet, our fearless counsellor, Benny, talks about us being the Goliath and in a cavalier way, says what are you people worried about? You are Goliaths and the Palestinian Arabs are just poor little Davids. You are not risking anything if you give them everything they ask for. Hell, yea, give them your very lives. After all you are a Goliath and they are just David…

            Yea, Benny, we are sure to listen to the likes of you…

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Va bene. I think I’ll go talk to a rational person. Bye.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            And an honest one. Molto importante!

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Awww shucks, the little jerk has had enough. So he puts on a brave face, declares unilateral victory and skulks off with his tail between his legs.

            So long Benny dear, LOL.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            But before I go, Gustav, more question. I forgot to ask you earlier. I’ll smoke a cigar while I wait for your answer. As is well known, Gustav, Israel’s Central Elections Committee twice banned Kahane and Kach from running for the Knesset, and the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the committee, disqualifying Kach from running in the 1988 elections. I’m going to assume you agree with that decision. If not, let us know. Now, you equate Lisa Goldman and Meir Kahane. It’s hard to believe you actually said that but you did. You equate Lisa Goldman and Meir Kahane. So we want to know. Would you approve of banning Lisa Goldman from running for the Knesset? Inquiring minds want to know. And would you similarly ban Noam Sheizaf? And since Goldman’s written views are no more left leaning than Zehava Gal On, are you in favor of banning Zehava Gal On and Meretz from the Knesset? If not, why not?

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            You are comprehension challenged, aren’t you Benny?

            Which bit of tweedle dee and tweedle dum don’t you understand? Hint, I don’t like extremists. That’s why I don’t like you either.

            The only difference between you and Kahane is that he was of the right while you are of the left. But you are both extremists (I should say he was).

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Nope. I’m not comprehension challenged at all. I understand very well what you’re doing. You did not answer any of my several questions. I count four of them. I can wait. I’ll light another cigar.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “I can wait”

            Can you? I thought you said you were going? You even said good bye to me. Maybe not “good”, just bye, LOL.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Q. E. D. Hoist by his own petard. I feel like Inspector Columbo (Peter Falk) on those old TV shows. Hmmm… I seem to have misplaced my lighter. Got a match by any chance?

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Poor little Benny. He suddenly seems awfully self satisfied about something. I don’t think even he knows what.

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            Gustav: “One does not have to have authority over Israelis in order to commit atrocities against Israeli civilians.”

            Indeed true, but I will point out – yet again – that your argument is this:
            Gustav: “Israel has the right to be as bigotted as the Palestinian Arabs are.”

            I am quite right to point out that the state of Israel has “authority” over the Palestinians, whereas the state of Palestine most definitely does not have any “authority” whatsoever over even a single, solitary Israeli.

            So what we have here is a situation of INSTITUTIONALIZED violation of human rights by the state of Israel which is not commensurate with any INSTITUTIONALIZED violation of human rights by the state of Palestine.

            That is quite indisputable, because the state of Israel controls all aspects of Palestinian life, whereas the state of Palestine has absolutely zero control over any aspect of Israeli life.

            Or has that distinction escaped you again?

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Actually, [Yeah Right], all you are doing is trying to bring up reasons why Arabs should be allowed to get away with acts of bigotry and why we have no right to respond with whatever measures that are necessary to stop those acts of bigotry even if some consider our actions to be bigotted too. What I argued is that it does not matter. As long as we manage to stop THEIR acts of bigotry against our civilians.

            You also implied that the “occupation” is a human right violation which justfies Arab acts of bigotry against us.

            But you are not right about that. There, I am daring to contradict you. Let me pinch myself … no, the world did not collapse yet, LOL.

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            Gustav: “The Palestinian Arabs on the other hand have an option. They could end the occupation very quickly.”

            No, they most definitely could not, and you are utterly delusional to think that they can.

            Gustav: “All they have to do is to agree to peace terms. And two of Israel’s past prime ministers offered them very generous peace terms.”

            Hmmm, and yet…… the Palestinians have been offering a very generous (to Israel) peace deal since the Oslo Accords were signed, and every Israeli Prime Minister has refused to so much as look at the document.

            Everyone knows what those terms are: a return to the June 1967 lines, the division of Jerusalem, and a mutually-agreed-upon solution to the refugee problem, and in return the Palestinians will declare the conflict to be over and will normalize all relations with Israel.

            Those are terms that the entire world (bar one country) considers to be quite acceptable. Indeed, it is universally (bar one) considered to be the only viable solution.

            Yet to this very day not a single Israeli politician has picked up that offer, even though it is now backed not only by every single Arab country but by all Muslim countries.

            Yet somehow *that* Israeli rejectionism is…. different.

            How so, Gustav?

            Gustav: “Some would say, too generous…”

            Yes, I am very well aware that the Zionist definition of “a negotiation” is for all the Zionists to get into a huddle and there accuse each other of being “too generous” in their diktats.

            But, please, can you identify any of the people that you regard as “some” who aren’t card-carrying Members Of The Tribe?

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Yeah, Right, that old chest nut. The Arab peace initiative.

            What our deceptive little friend [Yeah Right] forgets to mention is that the “peace initiative” gives every single Palestinian Arab refugee and all of their descendants (most of whom never even lived in Israel), the right to decide to live in Israel. That would be up to 4 million Arabs. Who in their right mind would agree to have their country run over by sworn enemies of the state?

            Moreover, that so called peace initiative ignores any compensation to one million Jewish refugees from Arab countries. Where is the fairness in that?

            Now take Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert’s peace initiatives. It involved giving up land for peace and even sharing Jerusalem. Why did the Palestinian Arabs ignore those offers? No, not because it did not involve nearly 100% of the West Bank. They ignored the offers because they did not include to so called right of return!

            Who said that those offers were generous, asks [Yeah Right]? As if he didn’t know…

            Bill Clinton and Condi Rice said that those offers were generous. And no, Bill and Condi are not from our tribe. Go figure…

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            YR: “So what we have here is a situation of INSTITUTIONALIZED violation of human rights by the state of Israel which is not commensurate with any INSTITUTIONALIZED violation of human rights by the state of Palestine….”

            G: “Actually, [Yeah Right], all you are doing is trying to bring up reasons why Arabs should be allowed to get away with acts of bigotry….@

            YR: “Everyone knows what those terms are: a return to the June 1967 lines, the division of Jerusalem, and a mutually-agreed-upon solution to the refugee problem, and in return the Palestinians will declare the conflict to be over and will normalize all relations with Israel.”

            G: “What our deceptive little friend [Yeah Right] forgets to mention is that the “peace initiative” gives every single Palestinian Arab refugee and all of their descendants (most of whom never even lived in Israel), the right to decide to live in Israel. That would be up to 4 million Arabs. Who in their right mind would agree to have their country run over by sworn enemies of the state?….”
            ——-

            YR why do you bother? You can not have an honest debate in good faith with this person. He knows if he is not a complete idiot that his characterizations are false, that (1) that is NOT “all you are doing” and (2) the agreement that is aimed for and could and would be worked out would be a mutually agreed on compromise and not the 4 million scenario he paints. But he is not interested in an honest grappling with real issues. The entire exchange above is littered with similar dishonesties. I could spend all day picking apart every blatant falsehood but it’s endless. I admire your patience YR, but….

            Look, the truth is what Ze’ev Sternhell just wrote:

            “The problem lies deep within Israeli society. After nearly half a century of controlling the territories, most Israelis view the colonial regime as something to be taken for granted and the invalidation of the Palestinians’ rights as part of the natural order of things.

            The segregation of the buses was an interesting symbolic test that reflected reality. The average Israeli will rebel against apartheid only the day he’s barred from trading with Europe and has to wait three months for a visa to visit Paris.”

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            BEN:”He knows if he is not a complete idiot that his characterizations are false, that (1) that is NOT “all you are doing” and (2) the agreement that is aimed for and could and would be worked out would be a mutually agreed on compromise and not the 4 million scenario he paints”

            Good old trusty Benny. One can rely on him to distort reality.

            What he won’t mention is that only very recently, the UN and Israel tried to broker an arrangement to allow Palestinian Arab refugees whose lives are under threat by ISIS in Syrian refugee camps, to be evacuated to the West Bank. Israel set one condition. Those refugees would have to sign a paper which would state that they relinquish any right of return to Israel proper.

            And what happened? The deal fell through because Abbas vetoed the deal. In effect, he said that he would rather see Palestinian Arabs die than waive their so called right of return to Israel proper.

            So much for the idea that a mutually agreed compromise has been possible with Abbas…

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            A recycled pack of lies. What went down is much more accurately termed one f—ing sick form of blackmail by the Israeli occupier. Netanyahu “offered” nothing, he blocked the return that Abbas requested by cynically and rather sadistically using the plight of both these refugees and Abbas as a leader to set a condition that itself violated international law on refugees. Very very sick. Yet another example of Netanyahu cynically setting a condition he knows can’t be met. This is the truth no matter how much the Hasbara organs work overtime to twist this episode to their liking. As Ami Kaufman makes quite clear:
            http://972mag.com/a-humane-israel-sets-conditions-for-palestinians-fleeing-syria/63592/

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “A recycled pack of lies”

            Oh dear. I read Kaufman’s article. He tells the story EXACTLY as I told it. Our facts match.

            Yes, Israel DID offer to allow the refugees into the West Bank.

            Yes, Israel made it’s offer conditional on those refugees signing away their so called right of return which is not really their right unless Israel would agree to their return. Nevertheless it would improve our position in any future negotiations…

            And yes, Abbas DID reject such a condition.

            Sure, my take and Kaufman’s take on these facts are different but we DO agree on the facts.

            But one thing I cannot understand. I cannot understand why our little Benny does not concede the point that I made…

            … that this shows that Abbas is not willing to give up the so called right of return of up to 4 million descendants of Palestinian refugees…

            … for chrissake! The refugees in Syria face death at the hand of ISIS but even that does not daunt Abbas from giveng up the so called right of return in order to save them. But in his negotiations with Israel he would? Poppy-cock Benny. He hasn’t got it in him!

            As for whether Israel is nice? Or Israel is a blackmailer? I just could not give a fuck about that. YOU argue the point or let that idiot Kaufman jerk off on being able to say yet again how cynical we are. I don’t care about that.

            Yes, I admit we are cynical. But we are no more cynical than the dear Palestinian Arabs who leave no stone unturned in order to get us disadvantaged and to improve their ability to eventually destroy the Jewish state. Yes we are cynical against the cynics who vilify us and who try to isolate us internationally. Read this article! That is just a minor example of it!

            Reply to Comment
          • MuslimJew

            “the dear Palestinian Arabs who leave no stone unturned in order to get us disadvantaged and to improve their ability to eventually destroy the Jewish state.”

            Quit whining, you brain-damaged Israeli freak. Go back to your “ancestral homeland” in Europe and play eternal Bible-Jew victim there instead, Eurofake.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Yes Benny dear…

            Reply to Comment
          • MuslimJew

            “Yes Benny dear…”

            No, neurotic Eurofake.

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            Gustav: “What our deceptive little friend [Yeah Right] forgets to mention is that”…..

            Now, I’m going to stop you riiiiiiiight there and point out that not two posts previously you had this to say:
            Gustav: “They could end the occupation very quickly. All they have to do is to agree to peace terms.”

            So not two posts ago you pilloried the Palestinians for not “agreeing” to peace terms that they consider to be anything but “peaceful” in its intent.

            Don’t pretend that you didn’t, because it’s there in black and white.

            So here is a situation where you insist on pillorying the Palestinians for doing something (i.e. to reject “terms” that the Palestinians consider to be outrageous), and then two posts later you have the utterly bald-faced effrontery to explain to me why it is perfectly OK for Israel to do exactly the same thing (i.e. to reject “terms” that the Israelis consider to be outrageous).

            There can hardly be a more stark illustration of “a bigot” than your little display of They Must Do As I Say, They Can Not Do As I Do.

            Bigot. Look it up – there’ll be a picture of you alongside the dictionary-definition.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            [YEAH RIGHT]”Now, I’m going to stop you riiiiiiiight there …”

            Oh dear, [Yeah Right] in full flight. What an awesome creature. He is taking control of the debate. I think I am going to swoon, he is so forceful and masterly … LOL, LOL, LOL…

            [YEAH RIGHT]:”and point out that not two posts previously you had this to say:
            GUSTAV: “They could end the occupation very quickly. All they have to do is to agree to peace terms.”

            Yep, you got me there master… Yes I did say that…

            [YEAH RIGHT]:”So not two posts ago you pilloried the Palestinians for not “agreeing” to peace terms that they consider to be anything but “peaceful” in its intent.”

            … and that’s where our deceptive little friend [Yeah Right], lost the plot…

            I did not pillory the Palestinian Arabs. I merely reminded our deceptive little friend that if the Palestinian Arabs want to end the occupation. The occupation which was caused by their war of aggression against us, then they have to agree to peace terms.

            Simply put, otherwise the “occupation” cannot end. And why should it end? So that the Palestinian Arabs could resume their war against us, from a stronger position? What a silly notion. No one in our place would agree to that.

            As for whether the peace terms were generous or not? [Yeah Right] asked me to name someone not from our tribe (Juden) who agrees that the peace terms were generous. I complied with his wish. I reminded him that …

            1. Bill Clinton and…

            2. Condi Rice

            … Both non Jews, described our previous two peace terms as generous. But suddenly [Yeah Right] has gone all shy about that and he prefers to make his own assertions.

            Oh well, he and the rest of his silly post is irrelevant. He is irrelevant because he has managed to demonstrate that he is a bigot and his views are and bigotted.

            Reply to Comment
          • Yeah, Right

            *yawn*

            Here is what a bigoted person does:

            a) When the Palestinians reject the “peace terms” offered to them by Israel then THAT’S PROOF THAT THE DON’T WANT PEACE! THEY ONLY WANT TO EXTERMINATE JEWS!

            b) When Israel rejects the “peace terms” offered to them by Palestine then, hey, who can blame them? Who would dare say that is rejectionism?

            Not Gustav, that’s for sure.

            He’s far, far too bigoted to see how bigoted his views are.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Yawn

            When the Palestinian Arabs reject peace terms which were described as generous by…

            1. Bill Clinton
            2. Condi Rice

            It means that they don’t want to end the “occupation” in such a way that Israel would end up standing.

            When Israel rejects so called peace terms which would be demonstrably suicidal for Israel, it is sensible.

            Calling that bigotted, as [Yeah Right] does, is meaningless. Meaningless because [Yeah Right] himself is the bigot.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Wow this tired old saw: “Germany and Japan were occupied for years by the allies but nobody claimed that the Germans and Japanese had the right to murder allied civilians as a consequence.”

            Americans did NOT establish land grabbing settlements on German and Japanese soil!!…etc etc etc. Nor did WWII start because Americans were settling in these countries!… How ridiculous. Enough said to dispatch this absurdity. It points to the eternal victimhood you claim for yourself at the sacrifice of all logical argument.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            That last post of Benny adds up to a claim that Palestinian Arabs have the right to murder Israeli civilians because of the “Occupation” and because of “Land grabbing” by Israel.

            He also claims that unlike Israel, the allies were not responsible for German and Japanese land grabs.

            He is wrong on BOTH counts. There is no justification for the systematic deliberate targeting of civilians under the guise of trying to stop occupation or even so called land grabs.

            Benny is also wrong about land grabs of Germans and Japanese. After WW2, Germany, Japan and even Hungary lost parts of their lands. Benny cannot face that reality. Watch him try to deny it. That’s what he does best. He denies, denies and denies more… and if that fails, he just ignores all arguments which refute his biased pre-conceived notions…

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            More routine and very characteristic dishonesty, in every sentence, but just for example to take the most concrete item: that surgical excision of the word “American.” It’s endless.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Wow Benny asserts that I am dishonest because I “excised the word Americans”.

            Wow, just wow…

            What Benny forgets to mention is that HE responded to MY quote which used the word “Allies” NOT the word “Americans”. So he excised my word and substituted his own for it. But I am the dishonest one?

            In any case, Benny should read up about the Yalta conference in which the Americans agreed with the idea that parts of Germany and Hungary will be given to neighboring countries after the war.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            I’m still looking for those land-grabbing American, British and French settlements in Baden-Württemberg and the Rhineland. Or in Yokohama Prefecture! And darn it all I can’t find them! Could you show me where they ever were? Or are? Even the Soviets did not try to get away with mass transfer of their citizens into Russian settlements on East German territory!!!

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “I’m still looking for those land-grabbing American, British and French settlements….”

            Like I said, read up about the Yalta conference which the ALLIES convened in which the Americans agreed about the fate of Germany after the war…

            Here, feast your eyes on this. It describes what actually happened…

            http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_%281944–50%29

            “During the later stages of World War II and the post-war period the German Reichsdeutsche(German citizens) were forced out of Eastern European countries to Germany and Austria. After 1950, some emigrated to the United States, Australia, and other countries from there. The areas of expulsions included former eastern territories of Germany which were transferred to Poland and the Soviet Union after the war”

            You are so predictable, Benny dear, didn’t I predict that you would actually attempt to deny the “land grab” by the allies after the end of WW2? The fact that America, Britain and France were not the direct beneficiaries, does not matter. They were paid by other means for giving their blessings to this outcome…

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            I’m still looking! I’ll let you know I’d I find them! LoL!

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “I am still looking”

            See an optometrist. Or even better, have a head transplant.

            Maybe learn to read? Or comprehend, Brian, oops, Benny dear.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Oh. So you ARE still insisting you see those settlements of Americans and British and Frenchmen upon the soil of Germany and Japan? It’s me who needs to see an optometrist because they’re there. Ok. Do they have white walls with red roofs like the settlements all over the West Bank? Please direct us to maps and aerial photos that even those without your eagle eyes can see! What does international law say about this belligerent occupation I missed? Do the Americans cut down Japanese cherry trees and German linden trees too? Are there multiple checkpoints all over Germany and Japan that restrict the native peoples movement and American-only roads and do the Americans spray the natives with feces-smells that last for weeks when they dare to protest? Thanks!

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Comprehension challenged fool! Yes, you Benny dear!

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Oh dear. I read Kaufman’s article. He tells the story EXACTLY as I told it. Our facts match.

            Yes, Israel DID offer to allow the refugees into the West Bank.

            Yes, Israel made it’s offer conditional on those refugees signing away their so called right of return which is not really their right unless Israel would agree to their return. Nevertheless it would improve our position in any future negotiations…

            And yes, Abbas DID reject such a condition.

            Sure, my take and Kaufman’s take on these facts are different but we DO agree on the facts.

            But one thing I cannot understand. I cannot understand why our little Benny does not concede the point that I made…

            … that this shows that Abbas is not willing to give up the so called right of return of up to 4 million descendants of Palestinian refugees…

            … for chrissake! The refugees in Syria face death at the hand of ISIS but even that does not daunt Abbas from giveng up the so called right of return in order to save them. But in his negotiations with Israel he would? Poppy-cock Benny. He hasn’t got it in him!

            As for whether Israel is nice? Or Israel is a blackmailer? I just could not give a fuck about that. YOU argue the point or let that idiot Kaufman jerk off on being able to say yet again how cynical we are. I don’t care about that.

            Yes, I admit we are cynical. But we are no more cynical than the dear Palestinian Arabs who leave no stone unturned in order to get us disadvantaged and to improve their ability to eventually destroy the Jewish state. Yes we are cynical against the cynics who vilify us and who try to isolate us internationally. Read this article! That is just a minor example of it!

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “As for whether Israel is nice? Or Israel is a blackmailer? I just could not give a fuck about that. YOU argue the point or let that idiot Kaufman jerk off on being able to say yet again how cynical we are. I don’t care about that.”

            It really is refreshing–I mean this in all sincerity–when you drop the mask like this (here and with respect to equating Goldman and Kahane) and we see what we are really dealing with here, what the writers of +972 are dealing with and why people like Lisa Goldman and Noam Sheizaf have this sense of urgency about the crisis Israel is in, about how bad things are and how any change will not happen without dramatic pressure from abroad, that left on their own, Israelis will continue the occupation and the current political direction forever. And so why +972 addresses itself to English-speaking readers around the world, why Sheizaf has said he’s believes it’s good, it’s of the essence to internationalize the conversation. And why Professor Sternhell–whose words I posted above–is right.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Poor old Benny…

            He is unable to stick to a thread of conversation. He is in lecture mode again about how evil we Israelis are for not loving our enemies who have been at our throats for 100 years. Oh dear, everyone else in our place would fall over backwards and love them. Not!

            In the meanwhile, Bennie’s attention span has gone haywire. He brought up an accusation, I refuted it, he ignores it and just jump on the next accusation.

            Keep on jerking yourself off in public, Benny dear.

            Reply to Comment
          • MuslimJew

            Poor psychotic hater.

            “we Israelis are for not loving our enemies who have been at our throats for 100 years.”

            You “Israelis” didn’t exist 100 years ago, so fuck off back to your “ancestral homeland” in Europe and go play the victim there, Euro-fake.

            “I refuted it”

            You flicked your worthless clitpeen and squirted for Israel.

            “Keep on jerking yourself off in public, Benny dear.”

            Keep on flicking your worthless clitpeen and squirting for Israel, psychotic Jew-dreg.

            Reply to Comment
          • BigCat

            “MuslimJew” is one of the alias of the individual who posts here as Brain alias “Ben” alias “David T.” alias “Dekkers”, alias etc. He uses the alias to talk to himself, defend himself, congratulate himself, obscure the fact that he is on +972 24/7 fixating on- and obsessing about Jews, while neither having a job nor knowing- or even caring about what goes on in his own country, etc. Anti-Semitism is not the only problem with him. Brian really has serious psychotic issues. Having sustained serious blows at the hand of Gustav, Brian metamorphosis into “MuslimJew” and starts hurling explicit anti-Semitic slur!

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Gustav is enraged. BigCat is merely dishonest. Nothing new here.

            Reply to Comment
          • MuslimJew

            “Bigcat” is one of the alias of the individual who posts here as GingerEis alias “ICat” alias “Merav” alias “Daniel”, alias etc. She uses the alias to talk to herself, defend herself, congratulate herself, obscure the fact that she is on +972 24/7 fixating on- and obsessing about Jews, while neither having a job nor knowing- or even caring about what goes on in her own country, etc. Screeching “anti-Semite” and whining about “Anti-Semitism” is not the only problem with her. GingerEis really has serious psychotic issues. Having sustained serious brain damage at the hand of Zionism, GingerEis metamorphosis into “BigCat” and starts hurling explicit slurs and screeching “anti-Semite” at everything and everyone!

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “Psychotic Jew dreg”

            Not just an extremist leftist site but one that condones racist hate speech.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Gustav is enraged now. That’s ok. As Yehuda Shaul says, he understands very well that he makes Israeli folks like you very angry and that’s ok, he knows how difficult this is.

            Reply to Comment
          • BigCat

            There is no reason for Gustav to be “enraged”. You took a severe beating as the comments show. You got enraged and found it necessary to metamorphose into “MuslimJew” to hurl your irrational anti-Semitic slur, you little anti-Semitic psychopath!

            Reply to Comment
          • MuslimJew

            There is every reason for self-absorbed Zionist anti-semites to be enraged. You inhale too much Zionism, then your brains take a severe beating until all you’re left with are the primitive functions of your brain. As the comments show, you got enraged and found it necessary to metamorphose into “BigCat” so you could slur your words and hurl irrational accusations of “anti-semitism” at everything and everyone, you brain-damaged psychotic mouth-breather!

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Gotcha Benny, the reason you are here is to induce anger. And since whatever you say as Benny just makes us laugh, you get serious and you turn yourself into MuslimJew just to invoke anger.

            At least we now understand why you are here, you little troll.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            You three guys n gals having yourselves a nice little troll party I see. I won’t interrupt.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            You already interrupted enough, Benny… oops … er… MuslimJew.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Gustav, both you and this MuslimJew use filthy language and are simply appalling. A pair of trolls in a feeding frenzy. I want nothing to do with either of you. This is a serious forum for the exchange of ideas about serious matters and a modicum of civility is expected and ought to go without saying. There is a difference between spiritedness and humor on the one hand, and overbearing rudeness and filth on the other. You should stop polluting this site with this awfulness. Get a hold of yourself, man.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Folks, the above post of Benny’s is what is known as Hutzpah.

            He accuses others of things which he is guilty of. He is unable to hold a civilized conversation.

            When he gets cornered in an argument, he tries all kinds of ploys. First he tries to ignore. Then he side-tracks. Then he accuses others of dishonesty. Then he tries to declare unilateral victory. And when all else fails, he reverts to his alter ego: MuslimJew.

            Add water, mix and repeat ad nausam. It always ends the same way.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            This (manufactured troll product of yours) might not be SO funny if it were not so apparent who cornered whom. I’m still smoking that cigar, Gussie, waiting for an answer. Remember, I correctly outed “Viktor Arajs.” A right winger! LOL! Have the last word, I know you must.

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          • Gustav

            There is nothing manufactured about you and MuslimJew being one and the same poster, Benny dear.

            If you only knew how transparent you are. And after your recent post above in which you admit that you are here to invoke ANGER, you became even more transparent. First you try as Benny and when you feel failure coming on, you resort to racist hate speech as MuslimJew, you little troll.

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          • Ben

            Oh I get it now, you’re trading on a false premise here if I read you right. My observation (where in that observation is an admission, pray tell?) about you being enraged was in response to your gloriously non-hateful, irenic, polite admonition to me to “Keep on jerking yourself off in public, Benny dear.” How nice, well-mannered, refined and un-angry. This intrusive clown MuslimJew’s posts had not yet even showed up or at least I’d not seen them before I responded with the observation about you being enraged. So your chain of insinuation about with what device I was supposedly trying to enrage you completely falls apart. I knew something was even odder than usual about this latest paranoid troll scam but now I get it. Have a nice evening.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            You are still here, Benny/MuslimJew?

            You are like a Shakesperian actor in a death scene. Every time we think he finished his death scene he comes up with another soliloquy.

            How many times have you said, “bye” now?

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          • Ben

            I’m done now. But you know how that Inspector Columbo is. He’s a bit absent-minded and, to the crook’s exasperation, is always stopping halfway out the door, turning around, scratching his head, and saying “oh, I almost forgot….” But Columbo always gets his man! You wouldn’t happen to have a match on you would you? I forgot my own.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Benny/MuslimJew

            So now, you are inspector Columbo?

            Ok, not only are you a troll, but you suffer from delusions. Right, “Inspector”?

            Oh dear, this guy was already very boring. But now he is getting hugely boring. What a sad little creature…

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            That’s exactly what the crooks always said about Inspector Columbo!!! The crooks had no sense of humor. We are still waiting on an answer to these questions and scratching our heads and the room is filled with cigar smoke by now so we opened a window:

            You equate Lisa Goldman and Meir Kahane. So we want to know. Would you approve of banning Lisa Goldman from running for the Knesset? And since Goldman’s written views are no more left leaning than Zehava Gal On, are you in favor of banning Zehava Gal On and Meretz from the Knesset? If not, why not?

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Oh Boy. Not only is guy a delusional troll but he is a nudnick.

            FYI, no I am not for banning ANYONE for registering a political party, provided of course that they meet the criteria for registering. I am all for free speech. Of course, poor old Lisa would never get too many votes because most of us are not suicidal.

            Happy now, Benny/MuslimJew?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            You had tossed off an insult against the left, as the right visiting here often does, without thinking through the implications of what you’re saying. You had not thought it through when you said that Goldman and Kahane were equivalent but opposite. Or else you think Kahane and his Kach party should not have been banned? Please clarify.

            Similarly, you had not thought it through when you equated me to MuslimJew based on no evidence whatsoever unless you want to embarrass yourself by stating what you consider evidence. All you do when you equate me to MuslimJew is engage in the cheap troll tricks and frank dishonesty that BigCat has established a reputation for. You want to lower yourself to BigCat’s level? Seriously? You have that little self respect?

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          • Gustav

            Lower myself to Bigcat’s level?

            You are a fool Benny/MuslimJew. Bigcat is a decent person. Unlike YOU!

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          • Ben

            Tells us all we need to know.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            You only know what you want to know, Benny/MuslimJew.

            The rest you filter out through your ONE eye.

            Reply to Comment
          • MuslimJew

            “You only know what you want to know, Benny/MuslimJew.

            The rest you filter out through your ONE eye.”

            You know nothing at all, you brain-damaged psychotic Jew-Dreg.

            Everything you filter out through your ONE brain cell.

            Reply to Comment
          • MuslimJew

            “Bigcat is a decent person. Unlike YOU!”

            No, Zionist cult member “BigCat” is a brain-damaged psychotic mouth-breathing moron. Like YOU!

            Reply to Comment
    4. BigCat

      There is no “victory” in defeat.

      In the End Palestinians lost, yet again. And they want to draw blood- Rajoub’s blood! Check this out:

      “On the eve of FIFA’s 65th Congress, Rajoub’s PFA organized several protests in the West Bank and Gaza Strip in favor of the expulsion of Israel from the international body.

      On Saturday, the PFA’s website was hacked by angry protesters who denounced Rajoub as a “traitor.”

      Many Palestinians also expressed outrage over the handshake between Rajoub and Ofer Eini, Chairman of the Israel Football Association, which took place shortly after the former announced his decision to abandon the motion asking for Israel to be suspended from FIFA.

      Rajoub’s critics took to social media to strongly condemn his decision and call for his dismissal from his job.

      Scores of Palestinians signed an online petition calling for the firing of Rajoub for his “surprise and uncalculated” decision. “This decision has caused enormous damage to the Palestinian cause and sports,” the petition read. “The Palestinian people need serious leaders who are capable of achieving the right to self-determination.”

      Some Palestinian activists expressed deep concern that Rajoub’s decision would hinder efforts to promote boycotts against Israel in the international community. Other activists also launched an online campaign entitled, “Red Car for Jibril Rajoub.”

      One activist wrote: “Rajoub’s decision is a severe blow to millions of Palestinians and those who support our cause. It’s time to say enough to corruption, dictatorial decisions and political concessions.”

      Wala’ Sameeh, from the Gaza Strip, wrote on Twitter: “Rajoub does not represent me. He has disappointed the Palestinian people.”

      Blogger Mohamed Abu Allan also pointed out that Rajoub has left many Palestinians deeply disappointed. Another blogger, Eid Shkhaidem, commented: “As long as there are collaborators like Jibril Rajoub and [Palestinian Authority President] Mahmoud Abbas, Palestine will never be liberated.”

      The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) called for launching an immediate investigation into Rajoub’s decision, which is described as a “severe blow to the blood of our martyrs, prisoners and patients.”

      The PFLP said in a strongly worded statement that Rajoub’s decision “beautifies the ugly face of occupation and exonerates it from crimes against our people.” The group also said that the decision was a blow to pro-Palestinian activists and organizations working to promote boycotts, divestment and sanctions against Israel.

      Palestinian columnist Emad Abu al-Rus wrote that he was not surprised by Rajoub’s “light-hearted” move to drop the demand to have Israel suspended from FIFA.

      “Rajoub was never a real athlete or a general,” Abu al-Rus remarked. “This is a man who never completed his high school studies.” He and other Palestinians pointed out that Rajoub was one of the first security commanders to conduct security coordination with Israel after the signing of the Oslo Accords and the establishment of the Palestinian Authority. Rajoub, who served more than 16 years in an Israeli prison for terror-related activities, was the first commander of the PA’s Preventive Security Service in the West Bank.

      Another columnist, Hashem Khalidi, said he too was not surprised by Rajoub’s decision. “Those who know his history are aware that Rajoub had sold his people to Israel when he was commander of the Preventive Security Service. This month represents only himself and not the heroic Palestinian people.”

      Hamas also strongly condemned the decision to drop the anti-Israel motion, saying it showed the PA leadership’s true attitude toward Israel. Hamas spokesman Hussam Badran said that the Palestinians no longer trust the PA’s promises to file “war crime” charges against Israel with the International Criminal Court”. http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Palestinian-soccer-head-under-fire-after-withdrawing-motion-to-suspend-Israel-from-FIFA-404529

      Reply to Comment
    5. Ben

      http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.658880

      “Only now, with the threat of suspension hanging over its head, has Israel belatedly decided to leap into action and save its soccer. Suddenly, freedom of movement can be arranged for soccer players from the West Bank to Gaza, with any attendant “security risk” ignored. Israel’s message to the world is, therefore, clear and unambiguous: any threats of boycott are wonderfully effective. Only through such threats can Israel seemingly be influenced to change its policies – in soccer, and in other matters as well.”

      Reply to Comment
    6. Ben

      “Their names are Jawhar Nasser Jawhar, 19, and Adam Abd al-Raouf Halabiya, 17. They were once soccer players in the West Bank. Now they are never going to play sports again. Jawhar and Adam were on their way home from a training session in the Faisal al-Husseini Stadium on January 31 when Israeli forces fired upon them as they approached a checkpoint. After being shot repeatedly, they were mauled by checkpoint dogsand then beaten. Ten bullets were put into Jawhar’s feet. Adam took one bullet in each foot. After being transferred from a hospital in Ramallah to King Hussein Medical Center in Amman, they received the news that soccer would no longer be a part of their futures. (Israel’s border patrol maintains that the two young men were about to throw a bomb.)…”

      http://m.thenation.com/blog/178642-after-latest-incident-israels-future-fifa-uncertain

      Reply to Comment
      • Gustav

        So you want to share atrocity stories, eh Benny? Well then here is an atrocity committed by your favorite people, Palestinian Arabs from Gaza against an Israeli school boy…

        http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaar_HaNegev_school_bus_attack

        “The Shaar HaNegev school bus attack was a missile attack on 7 April 2011, in which Hamas militants in the Gaza Strip fired a Kornet laser-guided anti-tank missile over the border at an Israeli school bus, killing a schoolboy.[1]”

        Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “It’s not an atrocity story, it is, unlike your whataboutery, an on-topic post about the subject of this article”

            Yea, every time Palestinian Arabs commit atrocities against Israeli civilians that is off topic.

            But security measures by Israel to try to prevent such crimes are the crimes.

            And on top of that, attributing fictitous motives to Israel’s security forces about why they arrest security risks is their favorite pass time. But proving those allegations against Israel? No need for that Benny says. After all “Israel is the villain”. Why? Because Benny and his hater pals say so. But of course, Benny and his hate monger pals are the villains because they encourage the intransigance and bloody mindedness of thePalestinian Arabs who think that their bestest buddies, their Benny like cohorts will do what they could not do for 100 years. They think they will defeat us with their help. But of course they won’t!

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            If you can excuse the treatment of Mahmoud Sarsak, you’ll excuse anything.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Too funny. I am the one who is excusing things but Benny declares the murder of an Israeli school kid off topic.

            Actually, it isn’t funny. It illustrates the bigotry that we are facing from extreme leftists like Benny.

            Reply to Comment
          • MuslimJew

            “It illustrates the bigotry that we are facing from extreme leftists like Benny.”

            It illustrates the brain damage that results when you inhale too much Zionism.

            Reply to Comment
          • BigCat

            “MuslimJew” is one of the alias of the individual who posts here as Brain alias “Ben” alias “David T.” alias “Dekkers”, alias etc. Having sustained serious blows at the hand of Gustav, Brian metamorphosis into “MuslimJew”. Brian alias “Ben” alias “MuslimJew” alias “David T.” alias “Dekkers” is indeed a psychopath with serious psychotic issues.

            Reply to Comment
          • MuslimJew

            “BigCat” is one of the alias of the individual who posts here as GingerEis alias “ICat” alias “Merav” alias “Daniel”, alias etc. Having sustained serious brain damage at the hand of Zionism, GingerEis metamorphosis into “BigCat”. GingerEis alias “ICat” alias “Daniel” alias “Merav” alias “Daniel” is indeed further proof that inhaling too much Zionism causes permanent brain damage leading to psychosis.

            Reply to Comment
          • MuslimJew

            “BigCat” is one of the alias of the individual who posts here as GingerEis alias “ICat” alias “Merav” alias “Daniel”, alias etc. Having sustained serious brain damage at the hand of Zionism, GingerEis metamorphosis into “BigCat”. GingerEis alias “BigCat” alias “ICat” alias “Merav” alias “Daniel” is indeed further proof that inhaling too much Zionism causes permanent brain damage leading to psychosis.

            Reply to Comment
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