+972 Magazine's Stories of the Week

Directly In Your Inbox

Analysis News
Visit our Hebrew site, "Local Call" , in partnership with Just Vision.

Did Gaza win the war?

The terms of Tuesday’s ceasefire declaration matter less than the new leverage, measured in international will, with which Palestinians now approach the negotiating table.

As a much-anticipated ceasefire took hold Tuesday, punctuating Gaza’s horrifying stretch without sleep or succor, spontaneous celebrations erupted throughout the Arab world. But the most jubilant displays were, of course, in Gaza itself, where residents shed the anxiety of a 50-day Israeli war for the simple pleasures of an evening outside.

Palestinians flash victory signs as hundreds of Gazans gather in the streets to celebrate the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas on August 26, 2014 in Gaza City. (photo: Activestills)

Palestinians flash victory signs as hundreds of Gazans gather in the streets to celebrate the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas on August 26, 2014 in Gaza City. (photo: Activestills)

It had too long been a pleasure denied. For most of Gaza’s 1.8 million Palestinians, the right to congregate, to walk the streets without the threat of Israeli airstrikes or shelling was enough to pry victory from the rubble all around them. But some are already wondering: Once the euphoria settles, will the broad-brush terms of yesterday’s deal outweigh the costs borne by this besieged enclave?

To put that question in context, consider the children. More Palestinian children were killed in the last seven weeks than in the last five years combined. And nearly 10 times as many were killed during this Israeli operation – dubbed “Protective Edge” – than during Israel’s full-scale assault on the West Bank in 2002, known as “Defensive Shield.”

These numbers are no doubt staggering, especially against the backdrop of an eight-year siege that has left no respite from the killing, and no way for Gaza’s Palestinians to protect themselves or their children. But in all the sadness wrought by Israel’s multi-front war on a civilian population – by naval battleships, by tanks, by drones and F-16s – what matters most in this war’s wake is not the number of dead, but the fundamental question their sacrifice has raised.

The question isn’t whether 500 Palestinian children’s lives were worth the sacrifice, or whether 50 somehow would have been better. No, the question raised by this war-of-one-army is precisely this: By what law of man or nature is the killing of children so facile, so unchecked?

Palestinians flash victory signs as hundreds of Gazans gather in the streets to celebrate the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas on August 26, 2014 in Gaza City. (photo: Activestills)

Palestinians flash victory signs as hundreds of Gazans gather in the streets to celebrate the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas on August 26, 2014 in Gaza City. (photo: Activestills)

By murdering innocents in quantities unquantifiable – as they slept, as they played, as they convalesced – as if they were the Jewish state’s chattel, Israel has so savagely trampled the bounds of human decency that it has given the world a new calculus, a clear-eyed formula for finally apprehending the Palestinian predicament. For though they fight and die – and sometimes relentlessly – Palestinians, the world now knows, are neither unjustified nor unjust. They are, now in the world’s eyes as much as their own, victims of a flawed and brutal logic, of a colonial project that has run it course.

That is why the terms of yesterday’s ceasefire – which largely defers the most complicated issues, like whether and when Gaza will have its own air and sea ports – matter less than the new leverage, measured in international will, with which Palestinians now approach the negotiating table. In that way alone, Gaza has won and so, too, has the cause of justice.

As for the celebrations now taking place in Gaza, may they proceed as long as its people choose, for Gaza’s Palestinians have stared down the devil of war, and his details will be conquered in course.

Related:
WATCH: Children long for kites, not bombs, in Gaza skies
Why did Netanyahu take aim at Gaza’s tallest towers?
Gaza deaths aren’t worth a mention in leading Israeli newspaper

Newsletter Banner 2 - 540

Before you go...

A lot of work goes into creating articles like the one you just read. And while we don’t do this for the money, even our model of non-profit, independent journalism has bills to pay.

+972 Magazine is owned by our bloggers and journalists, who are driven by passion and dedication to the causes we cover. But we still need to pay for editing, photography, translation, web design and servers, legal services, and more.

As an independent journalism outlet we aren’t beholden to any outside interests. In order to safeguard that independence voice, we are proud to count you, our readers, as our most important supporters. If each of our readers becomes a supporter of our work, +972 Magazine will remain a strong, independent, and sustainable force helping drive the discourse on Israel/Palestine in the right direction.

Support independent journalism in Israel/Palestine Donate to +972 Magazine today
View article: AAA
Share article
Print article
  • LEAVE A COMMENT

    * Required

    COMMENTS

    1. Kolumn8

      Hamas lost the war. It failed to achieve any of its objectives and settled for a ceasefire on terms it had previously rejected negotiated via a mediator that it had previously rejected with the complete exclusion of its own sponsors and supporters. It sacrificed 2,000 Palestinians, including 700-800 of its own fighters, and brought massive destruction on Gaza and accomplished absolutely nothing.

      When faced with such an obvious defeat the only thing Hamas’s propagandists, like the author of this piece, have to fall back on is the usual claptrap about how successful Hamas was in manipulating news media and how much it won in terms of social media attention. Social media has the attention span of a goldfish. News media has already moved on to cover Iraq and Syria.

      And no, there is no new leverage to be had here for the Palestinians because there is no international will to get involved in our little conflict since doing so is persistently unrewarding. The whole idea is in any case meaningless because the Palestinians themselves can’t bring themselves to sit at a negotiating table with Israel because they can’t stomach the compromises that they will have to make, such as accepting that Israel will continue to be the Jewish State, that the descendants of the refugees will never enter Israel and that Jerusalem will continue to be the united capital of Israel. Until the Palestinians start showing flexibility on these issues they will continue to find that there will be no ‘international will’ to touch this conflict with a stick because Palestinian nationalist obstinacy (Fatah, PFLP) and Islamic fundamentalism (Hamas, Islamic Jihad) makes a solution impossible.

      Reply to Comment
      • And what, exactly, has Israel won? That more people know what a blood-thirsty, lunatic, war criminal Netnayahoo is?

        Reply to Comment
        • Kolumn8

          Israel has won several years of quiet and burned into its enemies’ brains the fact that messing with it will be incredibly painful. It will be even more painful next time. Now we can go back to the normal work of enjoying life, building our country and growing our economy in our homeland. This is our victory. We win every day.

          Reply to Comment
          • “This is our victory. We win every day.”

            Excellent corporate nationalism. Can I use this quote generally, unattributed?

            Reply to Comment
          • Kolumn8

            Only attributed.

            Reply to Comment
      • Danny

        “Hamas lost the war.”

        I think you’re the sixth or seventh (I’ve lost count) Israeli pundit I’ve come across today who started their rant with these exact words. Very curious indeed. If Hamas lost the war, that must mean that Israel won it, correct? Do you really believe Israel won? What did Israel achieve in the last 2 months, other than the wholesale killing of mostly innocent people in Gaza?

        Hamas has effectively shown what a “lemon” Israel’s military is. If it wasn’t clear after the second Lebanon war, it should be crystal clear now: Israel’s military is a NIS 60 billion piece of junk that aside from dropping bombs on largely defenseless people isn’t able to do much else.

        Hamas has clearly become stronger as a result of this war, both in the eyes of its people and the Arab world at large. Khaled Mashal should send a gift basket to Netanyahu’s office with a “Thanks!” card attached.

        Reply to Comment
        • Kolumn8

          Nothing curious about it. “Hamas lost the war” is the most obvious conclusion possible, hence it is commonly used as an opener in a post.

          Did Israel win the war? There is an Eretz Nehederet skit from five years ago where Barak is talking to soldiers about the objectives of Cast Lead, maybe you are familiar with it? Anyway, in that skit Barak defines the “objectives” of that operation – אין מטרות – אין כשלונות. It is hard to lose when you define such a low bar for your objectives. Victory with such objectives is also meaningless. Israel mowed the lawn successfully.

          The war showed very little about the Israeli military or its capabilities. The soldiers accomplished what they were tasked to do and the tasks they were assigned were very limited. Had they been tasked to occupy all of Gaza they would have done so, but the truth is, and you know this, that Israel has no desire to occupy or control Gaza, so there would really be no point.

          What the war did show is that Hamas’ tactics bring ruin upon the population they claim to represent. The same was true in Lebanon with Hezbollah. Israel will level entire cities in order to destroy the military infrastructure terrorists hide under it and there is no one that will stop it from doing so. I read a few weeks ago a report from Gaza where a woman was interviewed after her house was destroyed. She said that she knew that Hamas was building tunnels underneath but didn’t see how it would have an impact on her. It was the resistance’s business. Now she knows that the “resistance” bring destruction upon her. If that message needs to be further reinforced or strengthened Hamas is welcome to restart hostilities in the future until the point sinks in.

          Hamas has come out of this significantly weakened. They have two weeks of their usual artificial celebrations of victory and then they are going to have to explain what they managed to accomplish. They can either cede much control over Gaza and allow it to be rebuilt or they can continue celebrating in the ruins while people take shelter wherever they can. I don’t think the latter is much of an option at this point. The blockade of Gaza continues and Hamas can only ease it by making major concessions to Egypt, to the PA, and to Israel.

          Reply to Comment
          • Danny

            Let’s not confuse Hamas with the people of Gaza. The people clearly lost, with unimaginable damage to both life and property. In that sense, we can count the “Otef Aza” civilians as losers as well (though less than Gaza’s by far).

            But Hamas the movement is so obviously the victor over the Israeli government that reading pundits like you try to spin it the other way just makes me laugh.

            I guess it helps to be a right wing lunatic in order to avoid seeing reality for what it is.

            Reply to Comment
          • Whiplash

            Danny, have you forgotten the humiliation that Hamas has suffered on the West Bank. 54 of its members released in the Shalit deal are back in prison. Hamas`cells and infrastructure for its planned takeover of the West Bank have been smashed. Much of Hamas`West Bank leadership is in prison. All the rebuilding which Hamas did in the West Bank has been torn asunder.

            On the Gaza side Hamas has not received one concession which Israel did not offer prior to its ground invasion. Israel and Egypt have won on this diplomatic front. Hamas has also suffered the loss of many of its top commanders and its top financial money launderer. Hamas will have to submit to the PA handling the border crossing points, which means the PA controls any revenue from these points. A massive loss for Hamas.

            Hamas said they would not stop firing until Israel agreed to their demands for a cease fire. Instead Hamas has capitulated to the Israeli and Egyptian demands. The borders are not open fully. They are only open to the humanitarian supplies which were already coming in and limited amounts of building materials which Israel said it would allow previously.

            Now Hamas has to go negotiate with skilled Israeli and Egyptian negotiators where they are completely outclassed.

            Reply to Comment
          • Elisabeth

            “Danny, have you forgotten the humiliation that Hamas has suffered on the West Bank. 54 of its members released in the Shalit deal are back in prison.”

            The fact that Israel never keeps its promises is destroying Israel’s international credibility. These things do not go unnoticed.

            Reply to Comment
          • Danny

            That’s true. But Hamas is holding the bodies of two IDF soldiers (one of them a newly-minted heroic legend). Next month Israel will negotiate with Hamas for the 2 bodies, and will most-likely release all the Shalit detainees as well as non-Shalit ones.

            Reply to Comment
          • Whiplash

            Netanyahu kept his promise. If Hamas kept attacking Israel he would hit Hamas hard and he did. When Hamas kidnapped and murdered 3 Israeli teenagers, Netanyahu promised to dismantle Hamas infrastructure in the West Bank and did. Netanyahu promised to bring quiet to Southern Israel and has.

            Netanyahu may not have the swagger or charisma of an Ariel Sharon or Shimon Peres, but he still got the job done.

            Reply to Comment
          • Kolumn8

            The people of Gaza lost and Hamas lost. In this world, the real one, Hamas managed to achieve none of the objectives it set out at the beginning of the war while destroying Gaza. The rockets stopped. They got nothing they demanded. This is called losing.

            I have no idea what delusional world you inhabit where they might believe that Hamas has “won”. Notice that even this article, written by a transparently pro-Hamas writer, doesn’t take any credit for Hamas for victory. Hamas or “the resistance” is not mentioned a single time in the article. That is how bad Hamas lost. When trying to find an angle which allows some claim of victory the author is forced to ignore Hamas entirely. What accomplishment does the author point to? None. Not a single one whatsoever. Just fluff. Same as your claims about Hamas “winning”.

            Reply to Comment
          • Danny

            You continue to fall for Bibi’s lies, which is par for the course for you Likudniks.

            What Bibi didn’t tell you in that press conference of his today is that next month Israel will enter negotiations with Hamas about ALL the things that he said Hamas didn’t get today. And guess what – Hamas holds ALL the leverage. If the siege will continue unabated, Hamas will simply declare the ceasefire null and void and begin shelling again. Pretty simple as far as it’s concerned. What will Israel do, call up 80000 reservists again? Not a chance in hell. So Hamas will get what it wants, only a little later.

            Stop believing your prime minister. He’s a natural born liar, if you haven’t noticed by now.

            Reply to Comment
          • Whiplash

            Netanyahu is a natural born diplomat (having served in Israel`s diplomatic department at the highest levels) who knows how to play the negotiation game. Hamas is simply out of their depth when it comes to negotiations.

            To get something, Hamas will have to give up something significant, like disarming or something close to it.

            Reply to Comment
          • Danny

            He’s a natural born furniture salesman. He should have continued in that capacity and spared all of us of his 3 disastrous premierships.

            Reply to Comment
          • Kolumn8

            Danny, you continue to fall for Hamas’ lies. The ‘negotiations’ that will take place in a month will be unsuccessful as everyone involved already knows. All sides will state their demands and then they will go home because there is zero chance Hamas is getting a port it can use to bring in massive quantities of weapons. The only reason why these ‘negotiations’ were scheduled to take place and it is not really clear to me whether they will actually take place at all is so that Hamas can climb off the tree it climbed onto when it set its absurd demands at the start of this conflict.

            Hamas has no cards. If they had cards they would have played them already, but instead they were forced into accepting a cease-fire on conditions they previously rejected from a mediator that loathes them.

            Now, are you going to be man enough to come back here in two months when Hamas still has no port or airport and admit that you were wrong? I doubt it. People like you never admit that they are wrong. They just latch on to the next boring anti-Israeli theory that makes them feel better. I am still waiting for one of the Israel-haters to admit that they were wrong when they made claims that Hamas wasn’t behind the kidnappings of the three teenagers in the West Bank. Come on. Admit that you were wrong there.

            Reply to Comment
          • Felix Reichert

            Nobody was wrong. The Hamas central leadership (neither in Gaza, nor elsewhere) knew of the kidnappings. Nor did they order them, as the head of the Israeli police (!!!) has admitted.

            The head of the Israeli police (!!!) said (and I’m paraphrasing here):

            “If Hamas leadership had ordered the kidnappings, we’d had known about them in advance.”

            Now will you admit that you were wrong, Kolumn8?

            Reply to Comment
          • Kolumn8

            I was wrong about what?

            There was a claim going around the anti-Israeli websites, including this one, that Hamas was not behind the kidnappings and murders of the Israeli teens and so the roundup of Hamas activists in the West Bank was unjustified. Hamas has since admitted that it was behind the kidnappings. Now, I want every moron that claimed to the contrary to admit that the roundup of Hamas activists in the WB was in fact justified given that Hamas members in the WB were in fact responsible for the kidnappings and murders of the Israeli teens.

            That Hamas’ Gaza leadership still claims that it was not aware of the kidnappings is fundamentally irrelevant to the issue at hand.

            Reply to Comment
          • Whiplash

            How much international support did Israel lose? The majority of the American public supports Israel over Palestinians by 5.5 to 1. Canadian Foreign Minister and the foreign ministers of many EU countries backed Israel’s right of defense and operations in the Gaza strip.

            Israel also enjoyed strong support of the Egyptian government and little concrete support was given to Hamas from the Arab world. Neither Jordan nor Egypt withdrew their ambassador.

            Further Israeli economic ties remain strong. Japan did not cancel its unique research and development program with Israel. India has not cancelled its new trade agreement with Israel. Israeli tech and medical companies are sought out by EU firms, and even Turks, as partners in joint ventures. African nations have not shut down Israeli programs for training surgeons or water irrigation. The Chinese are expanding their economic contacts with Israel.

            So Israel will ignore the bigots and racists who wish Israelis harm and march, chant and rant against Israel, Israelis and Jews.

            Reply to Comment
          • Bryan

            With all due respect that’s a bit like saying Sepp Blatter still backs Qatar’s world cup bid. In fact the corruption underlying US, Canadian and Australian support for the State of Israel is exceedingly similar to the corruption that dominates the world’s football authority. FIFA,s “ethics committee” has conducted full investigations of the bidding process but is unable to publish the report, in the same way that the most ethical army in the world will investigate full its own atrocities. The beautiful game is blighted by FIFA in the same way that the supposed “light unto the world” is blighted by the excesses of Zionism.

            Reply to Comment
        • shachar

          Hamas has not won and for the following reasons
          1. IDF has gone in, cleared neighborhoods, destroyed tunnels, went out. Nothing Hamas could have really done. Minimal casualties to IDF, but it is war.

          2. The fact that Hamas’ “strategic” rockets Completely failed – 100% failure, with extremely high Iron dome interception.

          All hamas “surprises” were complete failures.

          3. They were completely unable to stop Israel from bombing targets.

          So you want to claim win? sure, go ahead.

          Reply to Comment
      • Felix Reichert

        The facts are, and I am really sorry to tell this truth to our hasbarist Israel-apologists on this site:

        Israel has (again) lost considerable international support for its cause, especially among the global Jewry.

        On the other hand, the Palestinian people, and with it Hamas, have gained considerable international support for their cause.

        Everywhere.

        Now I’m saying this without any moral judgement whatsoever. But these are the facts, I’m sorry to say. Or am I?

        Reply to Comment
        • Kolumn8

          I have no interest in a meta meta discussion of whether there is a trend in the trend of American Jewish support for Israel and Zionism. It is a boring subject of discussion that is the domain of boring American Jews for whom Israel is an idea to be supported or ignored and for whom Israel, as an idea again, is a canvas for their own identities. It is also mostly meaningless outside of the very peculiar collective audience of American Jews and antisemites who both tend to unjustifiably ascribe massive influence to the former on American policies abroad.

          Likewise I consider the idea of “international support” to be a meaningless measuring stick used by people lost in the idea that we are moving towards some kind of unified global state where issues will be settled via global referendums and so Israel must compete for popularity with Palestinians and puppies. All present trends suggest that we are moving in the opposite direction.

          The world is not a reality show where countries get voted off the island.

          Reply to Comment
      • younes salim

        kolumn8 wonders how can the Palestinian ressistance claim to win the war. I just want to refer to one of the heroic ressistance members who said about the israelis, He said its we that decides when the settlers leave their settlements and when they come back. Its We that decided for them to leave, and now we decide, after the cease fire that they can go back to the settlements.Its we that say to the israeli soldiers when to stay and when they can go back to their homes and basis, we tied them here, and now when we agreed on the cease fire, we tell them they can go back to their homes instead of hiding behind their tanks.
        The Palestinian freedom fighter decided. Just remember this kolumn8.

        Reply to Comment
        • Kolumn8

          Just checking, was this particular “heroic resistance member” speaking about his victory from inside a tunnel where he was hiding from Israel, a hospital he was using as his base of operations or from a tent next to what used to be his house?

          I don’t wonder how Hamas can claim victory. I knew they would do so from the beginning. I wonder how anyone except for one of their obvious propagandists can believe them and parrot them and why 972mag would give column space to such morons.

          From the bottom of my heart I wish Gaza and Hamas many many more victories like this one.

          Reply to Comment
      • Proud Palestinian

        Gaza won the war #FreePalestine and Soon the whole Palestinian territory will be free from the Zionists.
        #GazaIsFree

        Reply to Comment
      • Kolumn8

        I have no idea why pro-Hamas propaganda pieces written by Samer Badawi are on this site. Has 972mag decided to function as a propaganda organ for Hamas? Have they started receiving funding from Qatar? I really have no clue.

        Reply to Comment
    2. Ashraf

      I can see the bitterness of defeat in the words of Israeli pundits.
      They killed as they wished, only to prove themselves to the world what Palestinians have been dying to prove. Also Zionists can longer use Holocaust for gaining sympathy, after all Holocaust heroes openly and vehemently slammed israel for Gaza Ghetto.

      What a shame for Israel.

      Reply to Comment
    3. Josef

      Israel have defiantly lost, that’s for sure. They’ve come out of the operations without any guarantee that will secure sustainable peace and reconciliation. As for “did Gaza win?” Not really, over 2,200 deaths, how can such a loss be seen as a victory? Did Hamas win? Well thanks to Israel they’ve possibly strengthened their support and grip in Gaza.

      Reply to Comment
    4. Jahan Kussman

      Israel has so savagely trampled the bounds of human decency that it has given the world a new calculus,…

      Will God forgive the Israeli’s and their American servants?

      Reply to Comment
      • jjj

        I think you have a typo. You mentioned “Israel” when what actually should have been written is “Hamas”.

        Reply to Comment
    5. Tomer

      The war resulted in a strategic draw.

      Hamas was dramatically weakened – losing the bulk of its rockets, terror tunnels, several hundred fighters dead (and thousands wouded) plus colossal infrastructure damage.

      However, Israel also failed to destroy palestinyanism (the false philosophy of a missing Arab nation that never actually existed). That mission will only happen when Moshe Feiglin becomes PM.

      Reply to Comment
      • Whiplash

        God help us all, Jews, Muslims, Christians, pagans and non-believers if Moshe Feiglin ever becomes Prime Minister. We want someone to lead Israel, not destroy it. Give us someone reasonable like Silvan Shalom, Moshe Yaàlon, Dani Dayan (or Danny Danon in 10 years time when he has gained a little more maturity.) Even Buji Herzog would be infinitely better than Feiglin.

        Reply to Comment
        • Danny

          Danny Danon? Really???

          I know you like to mow the grass, but don’t smoke it after it’s been mowed.

          (Unless YOU are Danny Danon, in which case I salute your ambition!)

          Reply to Comment
          • Whiplash

            I guess you do not like your name sake because of his great empathy with his Arab neighbors. Danny Danon is a natural leader, with great Charisma, but he needs much more experience in government and needs to learn when to keep his mouth shut and his foot out of it.

            What you need to understand is that Israel continues to move to the right. It needs good and responsible leaders in the center and on the right instead of Naftali Bennet or Moshe Feiglin on right to the right.

            Reply to Comment
          • Danny

            Whenever I see a picture of Danny Danon, I get the urge to donate to the Special Olympics.

            Reply to Comment
    6. bor

      Okay, since everyone is taking this stupid propaganda piece so seriously, let’s discuss winners and losers for a moment.

      1. Hamas won? Well, they survived and will continue to rule the strip. Israel was vilified by the international press (unfairly) and will now have to deal with bullshit UN investigations. I guess that’s some sort of victory.

      2. Israel won? Israel clobbered Hamas and killed 1000 of its men including some of its most important leaders. Essentially, the normal 10:1 or 20:1 Arab militant/terrorist/soldier to Israeli soldier death ratio in wartime remained the same as almost always.

      Israel destroyed the known tunnels, demonstrated that it can use Iron Dome to prevent most missiles from hitting targets, and showed complete dominance in ground fighting.

      Hamas is now going to have a much tougher time importing weapons and building tunnels. Their Egyptian tunnels will remain closed which was a source of products to keep the population satisfied and a source of income for Hamas itself.

      UNRWA is going to be investigated and its strong Hamas links will be exposed.

      Hamas leaders will have to drive around the shambles of neighborhoods as a result of a war they brought on, and they will have to justify the death and injuries sustained by so many Palestinians because of Hamas’ fighting operational tactics.

      In addition, Israel has bought time. If the truce holds for 2 years, Israel will have both tunnel and mortar technologies in place, an improved Iron Dome (and a couple more batteries). Essentially, the next war will be much easier for Israel and tougher for Hamas.

      Finally, Israel did itself a favor by stopping now. Aside from having any more soldiers die while Hamas hides behind babies, the Israelis have to consider that they have lunatic Islamists on the Golan’s border, Hizbullah’s Islamist lunatics on the Lebanon border and Hamas’s Islamist lunatics on their Gaza border. Sometimes it’s important to take a breather and muster strength for the next round.

      Reply to Comment
      • Felix Reichert

        “Israel was vilified by the international press (unfairly)”

        While I disagree with you that Israel was vilified “unfairly” (I think it was very fair), I’m mostly on board with you.

        And that international lack of future support for Israel will make the crucial difference. Less than 10 years from now even American Jewish support for Israels racist and Apartheid policies will falter. I’m willing to bet money on it.

        Reply to Comment
        • bor

          Oh, it was unfair alright. It’s not even a secret any more. The truth is out there that Hamas ensured silence and compliance from reporters, and reporters gave it.

          As for support or lack of support, let’s all wait until the next American election. Things will change with a different administration. Regarding American Jewish support for Israel, with all the lies coming from the media and with propaganda rags like 972, it might happen. But it might not. You and your anti-Israel friends continually underestimate Israel, its strength and particularly the strength of its citizens’ will. Especially these days when anybody with half a brain recognizes that the destruction or weakening of Israel would mean yet another insane Islamic-led civil war. Do you think Ahmad Tibi wants that?

          Reply to Comment
    7. only in the ME of your dreams

      Well I guess if getting the shit kicked out of you is victory than yea, they won. wtf? you have to convince yourself that Israel will now cave to world opinion, which is fluid, fickle and fleeting, to believe Hamas won. Whence such confidence? Desperate much?

      Reply to Comment
    8. Average American

      What “war”? It was Israel mowing people down. Does Israel need “war” to justify its ultra-nationalism?

      Reply to Comment
    9. mcohen

      gaza is gone.

      Reply to Comment
    10. Click here to load previous comments