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Despite high hopes, Merkel calls village's demolition an 'Israeli decision'

The residents of Khan al-Ahmar had hoped the German chancellor would demand Netanyahu back down from the imminent demolition of their hamlet. Instead, she called the matter an ‘Israeli decision.’ 

By Oren Ziv

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and German Chancellor Angela Merkel during a joint press conference at the King David Hotel, Jerusalem, October 4, 2018. (Hadas Parush/Flash90)

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and German Chancellor Angela Merkel during a joint press conference at the King David Hotel, Jerusalem, October 4, 2018. (Hadas Parush/Flash90)

Ever since Israel’s High Court of Justice gave its final stamp of approval to the demolition of the village of Khan al-Ahmar last month, residents and solidarity activists have been hoping that international pressure, especially from Europe, would delay or prevent the demolition. The activists have directed their efforts toward convincing members of the EU Parliament to openly oppose the move. They also hoped that the threat of punitive measures by European states could have some influence on Israel.

At the protest tent in Khan al-Ahmar, built in the courtyard of the village school, the worn out activists and journalists who have been taking turns sleeping in the village in recent weeks waited with bated breath for German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s visit. The widespread assumption was that Israel would not dare demolish the village during her trip to Israel, with rumors swirling that the chancellor threatened to cancel her trip should the village be destroyed.

Merkel’s visit indeed provided some clarity regarding the possibility of German pressure on Israel on Khan al-Ahmar, and from the perspective of the villagers, things seem gloomy.

In a meeting with university students at the Israel Museum in Jerusalem Thursday, Merkel was asked about her opinion on Khan al-Ahmar, and whether there was any truth to the rumors about her potentially cancelling her trip. “Time and again it was claimed that we conditioned our trip on this. We never spoke about this in government. This information came to us from Israel, that we might not travel, and that is absolutely false. This is an Israeli decision.” Merkel’s remarks appeared to be in line with the Israeli government, which insists that foreign countries should not intervene in matters relating to the occupation.

“Our visit has nothing to do with this,” Merkel added. “One can disagree on it, about the settlement policy, and I definitely have some critical remarks to make because I believe in the two-state solution, but that is not relevant here. We are two democracies and we can exchange different political opinions, also with the prime minister.”

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Merkel’s press conference alongside Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu later that day only seemed to strengthen her remarks. Netanyahu appeared comfortable and self-assured, joking with the journalists and photographers who covered the event at the King David Hotel. Merkel did not speak about Khan al-Ahmar, while Netanyahu answered one question about the differences between the two leaders on the Palestinian issue, stating that “we generally agree on most things, and we disagree on some things. So what?”

Eid Jahalin, the spokesperson for Khan al-Ahmar, said last week that he was happy with the support he received from members of the EU Parliament, many of whom have visited the village over the past few weeks. “We need them to put more pressure on Israel so that we can save our village,” he told me. While Merkel states her support for two states, Eid described the demolition of Khan al-Ahmar as being “like a bullet in the head of the two-state solution.”

While Merkel met with President Rivlin on Thursday afternoon, dozens of students from Khan al-Ahmar’s famed eco-school demonstrated outside the presidential residence, dressed in school uniforms and holding signs asking the chancellor to intervene in the demolition.

Dozens of schoolchildren from the Khan al-Ahmar eco-school demonstrate outside the president's residence in Jerusalem, demanding Chancellor Angela Merkel intervene and prevent Israel from demolishing their school, October 4, 2018. (Oren Ziv/Activestills.org)

Dozens of schoolchildren from the Khan al-Ahmar eco-school demonstrate outside the president’s residence in Jerusalem, demanding Chancellor Angela Merkel intervene and prevent Israel from demolishing their school, October 4, 2018. (Oren Ziv/Activestills.org)

“Merkel needs to do something, not just talk,” said activist Angela Godrey-Goldstein, who accompanied the children to the president’s home. “We can still save the school and allow a fair life for the Bedouin.” Godrey-Goldstein, however, remains optimistic: “The question is what happened off the record in the closed-room meeting between Netanyahu and Merkel. They are on thin ice. Because of the history, Merkel is uncomfortable with publicly criticizing Netanyahu, but I hope that in their meeting she told him that the situation cannot go on like this.”

The fact that the village hasn’t yet been destroyed — despite the fact that a month has passed since the Supreme Court approved the demolition — may be attributed to the Jewish holidays and Merkel’s visit. Beginning next week, however, there is nothing stopping the Israeli authorities from demolishing Khan al-Ahmar and evicting its 170 residents.

This article was first published in Hebrew on Local Call. Read it here.

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    COMMENTS

    1. UnimpressedRealist

      These poor people have such faith in the international community; it has never been rational.

      Its been the international communities that have been enabling their misery from the very beginnings and they still have this irrational hope that somehow a monstrous community that have never done anything but collaborate to wipe them out; will somehow turn a new leaf and grow a conscience!

      Its the most infuriating thing about them. Its so pathetic.

      Reply to Comment
      • Sam Smith

        Maybe almost as pathetic as the International Community putting a HUGE amount of time, energy and money towards the Palestinians who do FUCK ALL to help themselves, and ignoring the plight of people in Syria, Yemen, and so many other places.

        Reply to Comment
        • Ben

          @Smith: This is an especially dishonest, risible reply since it is one Angela Merkle who bravely took in hundreds of thousands of Syrian and other refugees while the racist coward Netanyahu and his allied Israeli populace can’t find it in themselves to take in a few thousand African refugees and are doing every low, miserable, inhumane thing imaginable to kick them out, and though the Germans are struggling with the absorption and have their own right wing they are as a whole light years superior to the utterly racist, xenophobic Israelis.

          Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Yes, it was very noble of Merkel to allow so many refugees to enter Germany, although she herself admit now what some of the problems caused by the immigration are which the German public is usually too politically correct to mention:
            https://uk.news.yahoo.com/angela-merkel-claims-no-go-areas-exist-germany-090315792.html?guccounter=1

            And the reason behind the decision to allow so many refugees in is not just noble, it’s very practical:
            https://www.businessinsider.com/r-in-ageing-germany-refugees-seen-as-tomorrows-skilled-workers-2015-9

            “allied Israeli populace” – right, the Israeli population are Netanyahu allies, all of them. Besides the majority of the population who didn’t vote for him and his party.
            “take in a few thousand African refugees” – mainly because they are not refugees, they are almost all illegal work migrant. And if you are indeed Israeli you should be familiar with what’s going on in South Tel-Aviv.
            They should be allowed to stay in Israel and get permanent resident status and be allowed to work but they should also be sent to other areas in the country as well, not just South tel-Aviv.
            “racist, xenophobic Israelis” – Are you even aware of the many Israeli organizations and groups who help them ? also spoken truly like someone who never had to walk through streets like Neve Sha’anan or Lewinsky in South Tel-Aviv. Which is now called by the locals “South Sudan”.
            If you’re truly an Israeli go visit, at night. Bring a woman with you and hold your smartphone in your hand. You’ll get a nice wake up dose of reality. Those are the worst examples though, the situation is nowhere near as bad in other areas.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Yes, it was very noble of Merkel to allow so many refugees to enter Germany, although she herself admitted what some of the problems caused by the immigration are which the German public usually is too politically correct to mention:
            https://uk.news.yahoo.com/angela-merkel-claims-no-go-areas-exist-germany-090315792.html?guccounter=1

            “allied Israeli populace” – right, the Israeli population are Netanyahu allies, all of them. Besides the majority of the population who didn’t vote for him and his party.
            “take in a few thousand African refugees” – mainly because they are not refugees, they are almost all illegal work migrant. And if you are indeed Israeli you should be familiar with what’s going on in South Tel-Aviv.
            They should be allowed to stay in Israel and get permanent resident status and be allowed to work but they should also be sent to other areas in the country as well, not just South tel-Aviv.
            “racist, xenophobic Israelis” – Are you even aware of the many Israeli organizations and groups who help them ? also spoken truly like someone who never had to walk through streets like Neve Sha’anan or Lewinsky in South Tel-Aviv. Which is now called by the locals “South Sudan”.
            If you’re truly an Israeli go visit, at night. Bring a woman with you and hold your smartphone in your hand. You’ll get a nice wake up dose of reality. Those are the worst examples though, the situation is nowhere near as bad in other areas.

            Reply to Comment
        • UnimpressedRealist

          Your whataboutism is disturbing. Palestinians have been suffering for 70 years and you’re on here trying to compare that to Syrians and Yemen who have never EVER been displaced from their motherland?

          Shame on you.

          Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            What the hell are you talking about ? and where have I did anything of the sort ?

            Reply to Comment
    2. Ben

      “…The German ministers already ignore that an important part of Israeli technological, military and intelligence development is linked to maintaining the occupation and keeping the permanent conflict on a low flame that occasionally flares up. They must ignore this, mentally and emotionally, to continue cultivating partnerships with Israel. They can also ignore Israel’s use of its military capabilities during their visit.

      Each day that has passed since May 1999 (when the final-status agreement with the Palestinians was to go into effect), Israel has crossed another red line in shaping its unique regime of separation (apartheid, in Afrikaans). None of these crossings or violations of international resolutions led European countries to put genuine political pressure on Israel.

      Each day that has passed since May 1999, Europe in general and Germany in particular have crossed another red line in the normalization of Israeli apartheid. They make a complete separation between their partner in technological, scientific and intellectual progress and the Israel that plans to erase in the near future the small village and other communities, and that for 10 years has imprisoned 2 million people in the biggest concentration facility in the world.

      And the umbrella of the victims and survivors of the Holocaust is used to excuse and explain this intolerable ability to repress and compartmentalize.”

      https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-the-germans-will-ignore-israeli-apartheid-again-1.6515798

      Reply to Comment
      • Ido

        “regime of separation (apartheid, in Afrikaans)” – already refuted this nonsense in detail here in the comments section:
        https://972mag.com/israel-denies-entry-to-palestinian-american-over-alleged-bds-support/138002/
        Who cares about context, reasons and reality, right ? they don’t matter. But we’ll use the word ‘separation’ in Afrikaans for no reason and no relation to the historic relevance it holds. It just sounds better in Afrikaans than ‘separation’ or occupation in English.
        “has imprisoned 2 million people in the biggest concentration facility” – of course I can’t read the paywalled article, but I see the hyperbole is in full force. And Israel’s actions has no relation whatsoever to the Palestinians own actions, right ?
        “And the umbrella of the victims and survivors of the Holocaust is used to excuse” – no it doesn’t. The actions, decisions and agenda of the Palestinian leadership are the reasons.

        Reply to Comment
        • Jon Aarbakke

          Take a look at the map and see how much land the Zionists have stolen since 1948. Take a look at the latest law which puts on paper what has been going on since the dawn of Zionist activity in Israel. Put aside the overt and tacit racism against Palestinians since they are arabs, and the Jews are white. Let´s forget the crushing military defeat of the PLO in Lebanon in 1982 and its subsequent diaspora. How convenient the rise of the bearded fanatics of Hamas (how similar they look to Israel´s own bearded fanatics). Fanatical, stupid and powerless. Their own worst enemy: The perfect enemy. Shoot to kill. You may choose not to see all this. But it´s there to be seen.
          As for Merkel – she´s German. She can´t say anything for that very reason. But she should, when she visits a country with racial laws. Not only that, but she was born in oppressed East Germany (DDR). It´s a striking failure of moral clarity.

          Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “Take a look at the map and see how much land the Zionists have stolen since 1948” – and nothing the Arab nations did during that time, say multiple attempts to destroy Israel and genocide the Jews, rejection of the Partition Plan, etc, had anything to do with border change, right ? how most of the partitioned land was state owned land, not owned by Arabs, and how Jews also owned land there had nothing to do with this.
            “tacit racism against Palestinians since they are arabs” – right, racism, not terrorism or anything like that.
            “the Jews are white” – oh yes, the slightly more than half of all Jews, who are Mizrahi/Sepharadi Jews, are very white. You really know this stuff don’t you.
            “Let´s forget the crushing military defeat of the PLO in Lebanon in 1982” – Let’s forget how the PLO attacks on Israel lead to Israel invading Lebanon.
            “and its subsequent diaspora” – let’s also forget Black September, why they were there in the first place, their involvement in the civil war, their attacks on Israel which led to their exile to Tunisia and the still existing large Palestinian population there.
            “How convenient the rise of the bearded fanatics of Hamas” – how convenient is the lie that they are an Israeli invention.
            “Fanatical, stupid and powerless” – oh yes. Those thousands of missiles and rockets fired at Israeli civilians had no effect whatsoever. Just like the terrorist attacks.
            “country with racial laws” – Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people, that was the reason for its re-creation in the nation’s historic land. If you want an actual example, the Palestinians have a law sentencing to death anyone who sells land property to a Jew.

            Reply to Comment
        • Ben

          Hmmmm…that’s funny, I don’t recall any refutation. I recall Ido Geller dissolving into incoherence over a Gala/Fuji apple analogy that exposed fallacious reasoning, dissolving into the interesting claim that a Fuji apple decided to slaughter Jews. Which only actually proved that you will never miss any opportunity to jabber about “slaughter of Jews…Jew blood…blah blah blah.”

          To wit:

          ‘“Meanwhile the Fuji apple is sitting right there on the table” – so it doesn’t make any difference that it’s there because it decided Jews should be slaughtered.’

          Meanwhile, back at the farm, I mean the Hague, ICC Rome statute-violating separation regimes are ICC Rome statute-violating separation regimes, and forms of apartheid, and the differences between any two of them are interesting but not definitive. Like Fuji and Gala apples.

          “Jew-slaughtering,” by apples or humans, has nothing whatsoever fundamentally to do with why Israel relentlessly perfects and advances its meticulous illegal separation regime, and cannot seriously be invoked as a defense of apartheid. And I think you know that. Which gets us back to this:
          “And the umbrella of the victims and survivors of the Holocaust is used to excuse and explain this intolerable ability to repress and compartmentalize.”

          Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            The terrorist apple!

            BTW, regarding the subject of the article on this page by Oren Ziv, and your categorical insistence here:
            ‘“And the umbrella of the victims and survivors of the Holocaust is used to excuse” – no it doesn’t. The actions, decisions and agenda of the Palestinian leadership are the reasons.’

            Regarding that, you keep saying you think Netanyahu is one of the worst Israeli Prime Ministers ever. Where’s the beef? Everything you say parrots Bibi’s propaganda lines. I don’t get it. When have you ever once said anything that would counter Netanyahu’s agenda? You might as well be his personal spokesman. Why don’t you vote Likud? I have an extremely hard time believing that you don’t. I don’t see any reason why you wouldn’t. You harbor every prejudice, and peddle all the distortions and disinformation, they do. Where’s the beef?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “The terrorist apple!” – your failure to grasp a simple metaphor is very amusing.
            “Where’s the beef?” – what the hell are you talking about and what does it have to do with how “the umbrella of the victims and survivors of the Holocaust is used to excuse” is total nonsense ?
            “Everything you say parrots Bibi’s propaganda lines” – Everything you say parrots Jihadist fundamentalist terrorists propaganda lines which call for the slaughter of Jews and the elimination of Israel. So where’s the beef ?
            “When have you ever once said anything that would counter Netanyahu’s agenda?” – besides giving East Jerusalem to the Palestinians ? the support of creation of a Palestinian state next to Israel ?
            “You might as well be his personal spokesman” – your lies get more ridiculous each post. This is great.
            “Why don’t you vote Likud?” – because I don’t support their politicians, actions and ideology and I think they are a disaster to Israel’s future. Mainly. I believe I answered a similar question for yours before.
            “You harbor every prejudice, and peddle all the distortions and disinformation” – you follow ridiculous anti-Israel lies and “historic revisionism” spewed by the Palestinian propaganda, you repeatedly ignore reality which is apparently not to your liking even when I shove the evidence in your face, including the Palestinian leaders themselves yelling it in your clueless face, you follow some of the most insane anti-semitic canards (like the non-existence of the Jewish people) and you mention prejudice, distortions and disinformation ? are you trying to give me an aneurysm from laughing so hard ?
            “Where’s the beef?” – exactly.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “I don’t recall any refutation” – as if it’s the first time you ignored reality and substitute it with your own. It’s in the link I provided.
            “dissolving into incoherence over a Gala/Fuji apple analogy” – pointing out how your analogy was idiotic is now “dissolving into incoherence” ? you’re lying about this as well ?
            “exposed fallacious reasoning, dissolving” – how does explaining how reason, context and reality indicate how your Apartheid accusation is wrong is “fallacious” ?
            “interesting claim that a Fuji apple decided to slaughter Jews” – Jesus Christ.. yes I claimed apples want to slaughter Jews, not used it as a metaphor to explain how your reasoning is ridiculous.
            I repeat: so it doesn’t make any difference that it’s there because it decided Jews should be slaughtered, it’s just exactly like deciding to put it there because it has a different flavor.
            Who cares about reason, context and reality, right ? are you really this dumb that you didn’t understand my point ? about context, reason and reality ? I repeating this about 5 times.
            “you will never miss any opportunity to jabber about “slaughter of Jews” – so you really failed to understand a metaphor explaining your idiotic analogy, amazing. And yes I will mention Jew slaughter as long as it’s a goal of the Palestinian leadership, a fact you have been trying very, very hard to ignore.
            I provided you with dozen of links to the Palestinian leaders yelling it in your clueless face, as I recall you are still in denial about that.
            “To wit” – I explained your idiotic analogy and how you fail to grasp how reason, context and reality matters. You again seem to be too stupid to understand this even after I explained this 5 times.
            “the differences between any two of them are interesting but not definitive” – I’ll just repeat myself since you ignored it: right. ‘they are different in reason, context, reality and facts but I like the word Apartheid so I’ll use it, it’s not “definitive” different for me’.
            ” Like Fuji and Gala apples.” – right, who cares about context, reason and reality ? except every court system in the civilized world. It’s not Apartheid, no matter how hard you really really want it to be.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “Jew-slaughtering has nothing whatsoever fundamentally to do” – of course it does, that’s the whole point. If there was no terrorism there would be no wall and things would have been vastly different with the PA.
            “illegal separation regime” – I explained why this is wrong with 2 links explaining this in detail, why are you ignoring them ? they are in the link to the other article above.
            “defense of apartheid” – not defense of anything, simple fact: it’s not Apartheid as I explained in detail many times.
            “Which gets us back to this: the umbrella of the victims and survivors of the Holocaust” – and it gets us back to this: no it doesn’t. The actions, decisions and agenda of the Palestinian leadership are the reasons. Nothing to do with the Holocaust, this is utter nonsense.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “…right, racism, not terrorism or anything like that…. “Where’s the beef?” – what the hell are you talking about and what does it have to do with… no it doesn’t….slaughter of Jews… slaughter of Jews…Jew slaughter as long as it’s a goal of the Palestinian leadership,…The actions, decisions and agenda of the Palestinian leadership are the reasons. Nothing to do with the Holocaust, this is utter nonsense.”

            Preposterous Netanyahu propaganda lines.

            “…I repeat: so it doesn’t make any difference that it’s there because it decided Jews should be slaughtered, it’s just exactly like deciding to put it there because it has a different flavor….”

            This again shows you will just jabber to the point of incoherence if you can work in “slaughter of Jews”

            “…“Why don’t you vote Likud?” – because I don’t support their politicians, actions and ideology…”

            Baloney. Everything you say is a cheap, hackneyed Netanyahu propaganda line. Where’s the beef?

            “the support of creation of a Palestinian state”’

            Pure baloney. Fakery.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “Preposterous Netanyahu propaganda lines” – so you think you found a new “strategy” to avoid addressing my posts detailing your lying nonsense and embarrassing mistakes with this Netanyahu nonsense. Figures.
            You think this will somehow cancel out the posts above refuting your nonsense ? saying this idiocy somehow makes all of it go away ? how pathetic are you ?
            “shows you will just jabber” – how does showing in detail how your analogy is hilariously wrong as it ignores the context, reason and reality of the situation is “jabber” ? how about actually addressing my posts instead of ignoring them again ? the evidence I provided in the links you ignored ?
            “if you can work in “slaughter of Jews”” – are you still in denial about how the Palestinian leadership provides incentive, funds and calls for the slaughter of Jews ? how they consider all of Israel, Sea to the River, as theirs ? how they refuse to accept the legitimacy of Israel’s existence ?
            after the huge amount of evidence I provided you with ? which you of course promptly ignored or refused to touch by making some of the most hilarious excuses I’ve ever seen because dealing with reality is apparently too difficult for you ?
            “Baloney. Everything you say is a cheap, hackneyed Netanyahu propaganda line” – no it isn’t, it’s called reality, something you seem to have a very hard time accepting as evident by our many little chats. What’s funny about this is how you say this when you seem to be a follower of some of the most deranged anti-Israel propaganda around,
            like for example the non-existence of the Jewish nation, a favorite among anti-semites and anti-zionist “history revisionists”. I refuted your nonsense about this of course, with lots of proof. You of course ignored it as always. You sure love clinging to your ridiculous lies.

            more to follow

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “– are you still in denial about how the Palestinian leadership provides incentive, funds and calls for the slaughter of Jews ? how they consider all of Israel, Sea to the River, as theirs ? how they refuse to accept the legitimacy of Israel’s existence?”

            You’re full of it, a used car salesman I wouldn’t take a car from if you gave it to me for free.

            See ‘Mig’ on Oct 7th:

            https://972mag.com/what-netanyahus-idea-of-peace-looks-like/137916/

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “See ‘Mig’ on Oct 7th”: He is wrong. Very wrong. Claiming the correspondence in 1993 went beyond the promise to change the charter and recognize the validity of Israel and to stop the calls for its destruction. Yes Arafat made various commitments but the PLO never followed through with them:
            the Palestine National Council did in fact convene in Gaza to vote on amending the charter. But what they did instead was adopt a resolution calling on its legal committee to redraft the charter and present it before the Central Council. That was 1994. It has yet to be done. In 1997, after Israeli and Palestinian leaders signed an agreement in Hebron, the PA acknowledged that it had yet to make the changes it had long before promised. It included in a note at that time saying, it would “complete the process” of revising the Charter.

            http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/11719

            A look at the charter will show that this promise was never carried forward. No articles have been changed, including those which call for an ongoing war against the Jewish state.
            Not only do I proved again how you have no idea what you’re talking about, I know prove you point to others who don’t know what they’re talking about, showing how you’re clueless by proxy. Well, this is new. I’ll give you that.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            How Many Times Must the Palestinians Recognize Israel?
            Netanyahu’s new ‘Jewish state’ mantra negates the fact that Palestinians recognized Israel more than twenty years ago. They’re still waiting for Israel to recognize Palestine.
            Hussein Ibish
            Mar 13, 2014
            https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-when-will-you-recognize-us-1.5333475

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Is Peace Possible?
            https://peacenow.org/page.php?name=they-say-we-say#possible

            You would benefit from reading the following basic background educational material under these headings on that page:

            “Let the Arabs accept Israel first. Only then should anyone ask Israel to make peace.”

            “How can Israel be expected to negotiate with the Palestinians if the Palestinian leaders refuse to recognize Israel as Jewish state?”

            “Why do Israelis and many supporters or Israel insist that Israel should be recognized as a Jewish state?”

            “Why is the demand that Israel be recognized “as a Jewish state” a problem for the Palestinians?”

            “Is there any way to reconcile the Israeli and Palestinian positions on the recognition issue?”

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “You would benefit from reading the following basic background educational material” – you would benefit a lot from addressing the evidence I provided and from the posts here refuting your clueless lying nonsense in detail.
            One of the most glaring thing in your ‘peace-now’ link is how they completely ignore the actions, agenda and goals of Hamas/PLO just like you as if they live in an alternate universe of fairy-tales and leprechauns. Almost child-like naivete. Adorable.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “How Many Times Must the Palestinians Recognize Israel” – already refuted this nonsense in detail and you again bring it as if the evidence refuting this wasn’t shoved in your face. Linked it again in the Facebook comments section. Very recent evidence of the Palestinian leaders themselves yelling it in your clueless face. And of course you link a site behind a paywall you know I can’t read.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “The Hateful Likud Charter Calls for Destruction of Any Palestinian State” – your dishonest attempt at a comparison with Hamas or PLO only further show how you are brainwashed beyond the ability to comprehend how you have no idea what you’re talking about even when I literally bang you over the head with it, see my response regarding your Mig post.
            https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/hamas-and-likud-charters-separated-at-birth/

            And of course your link is about a document from the elections almost 20 years ago and I believe it’s actually based on the original constitution from 1977. Today that charter/constitution no longer exists on the Likud website, it fact it’s one of the biggest jokes regarding Likud, how they don’t have a platform (mat’za).
            The last updated constitution I can find is from 2006 and it doesn’t even include the word ‘Jordan’ in it. But of course if you can provide the latest updated one I’ll be happy to review it. Go right ahead.

            Would you like me to go over on the current PLO and Hamas charters with you ? or you think you have embarrassed yourself enough for now ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): And if you want to say ‘separation’ for some reason in afrikaans with no relation to SA Apartheid, as it is different in context, reasons and reality as I explained, be my guest. But I will this nonsense out. And if you want to see an actual discriminatory two-tiered segregation system within the same society based on discrimination, not terrorism and or occupation, what is actually very similar to SA Apartheid, see how the PA and Hamas treat the Palestinian refugees in their own self controlled regions.

            “Pure baloney. Fakery.” – right, because you say so ? even though I explained this to you for about 20 times ? sure, why not. If you’re already lying to yourself about some of the most blatant anti-Israeli propaganda and the actions and goals of the Palestinians, what’s another little lie about me ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Every apartheidist has excuses about why his apartheid is different. It’s apartheid. (Rome Statue, ICC, 2002.) It does not matter to me if you can’t accept this.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “why his apartheid is different” – as I explained quite a few times now backed by evidence, which you of course ignored, it is not Apartheid. It’s an occupation. In fact how the Palestinians treat their own people in the refugee camps in their own controlled territories is closer to SA Apartheid. Again: if you want to say ‘Separation’ in Afrikaans, never mind that it doesn’t have anything to do with what Apartheid is, not by context or reason, be my guest. I won’t stop pointing out how you have no idea what you’re talking about.
            “Rome Statue, ICC, 2002” – Again: explained this to you in detail, backed by evidence, why Israel is not Apartheid. If you still in denial about this, if you still choose to ignore the evidence I provided, it does not matter to me. Won’t change the fact that you’re wrong.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “it is not Apartheid. It’s an occupation”

            It’s both. That you can’t get this or refuse to acknowledge it goes to the heart of the matter. You understand nothing

            “Again: explained this to you in detail, backed by evidence, why Israel is not Apartheid.”

            You explained nothing, “in detail” or otherwise. This is just more bluster.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “It’s both” – Again: 4,158th time: yes there is separation but it is in no way similar to Apartheid, not in context, reason and reality. Lie about this as much as you like, this is not going to change.
            I refuted your idiotic analogies in detail, explained how you are wrong backed by evidence you repeatedly ignored as if they don’t exist.
            “You explained nothing” – Lying to yourself won’t changes nothing. Why did you ignore the two links I provided in the original article, refuting your comparison to Apartheid ?
            Again: if you want to see an actual discriminatory two-tiered segregation system within the same society based on discrimination, not terrorism and/or occupation, what is actually very similar to SA Apartheid, see how the PA and Hamas treat the Palestinian refugees in their own self controlled regions.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “4,158th time”

            You really ought to stop using mere repetition as some kind of fancied argument. Very odd. I could say I am the King of Pomerania 5764 times and people would still laugh at me the 5764th time except they’d be so tired of hearing it that they tuned me out and simply stopped reading. In fact I might be seen, quite rightly, as some kind of madman. And if I were like you I’d be the last to know it.

            “Lie…lying…”

            As well, you really ought at long last to stop using mere repetition of your favorite ad hominem as some kind of fancied argument. (That reminds us: “backed up ad hominem”—very funny!)

            “if you want to see an actual discriminatory two-tiered segregation system within the same society based on discrimination, not terrorism and/or occupation…”

            Excuse me? I don’t have to do anything so fake and preposterous. I merely have to look at Israel’s own treatment of its resident Negev Arab versus its Negev transferred-in Jewish citizens. Two-tiered segregation system. In spades. As obvious as night and day. Case closed.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            ” stop using mere repetition” – did reality change ? did the links I provided (which you ignored) change ? Israel is still not Apartheid no matter how hard you want it to be.
            “Very odd” – what’s odd is your vehement refusal to accept reality even when it is shoved in your clueless face repeatedly.
            “I could say I am the King of Pomerania 5764” – your idiotic analogies never cease to amaze me. Fine, bring me proof that you are. Bring me evidence that you are. Israel is not Apartheid, not similar to Apartheid by context, reason and reality. Ignore the evidence and details I provided you with, they are not going to change.
            “stop using mere repetition” – I literally point out in this very comments section where you lie and where you made embarrassing clueless claims. Very, very clearly so. I have no idea why you think lying about this does anything positive for you.
            “ad hominem” – Again: every single time I say something about you, I back it up. Every single time. Please, address it, be my guest. Why is this so difficult for you ?
            “backed up ad hominem—very funny” – example: you made a claim above backed by a post from someone else, claiming something which is factually incorrect about the Palestinians and their recognizing of Israel’s legitimacy. I explained how you both are very wrong, backed by evidence. Called you clueless (by proxy) because that is exactly what you are when you post nonsense like this.
            “Excuse me?” – so you’re clueless how the Palestinian leadership treats the Palestinians in the refugee camps in their own controlled area ? what a shock.
            “so fake and preposterous” – you really have a hard time dealing with reality which obviously contradicts your biased delusional nonsense, don’t you. Makes sense how you have no clue what is going on in the refugee camps under Hamas and PA control compared to the rest of their population.
            “resident Negev Arab” – so you have no clue about the Bedouin illegal seizing of land all across the Negev as well ? what a shock.
            Jews are forbidden by law from entering certain areas and roads in the West Bank and all of Gaza. I will call this separation using the word in Afrikaans, I hope you don’t Mind. Apartheid. Never mind that it doesn’t have anything to do with what Apartheid was by reason, context and reality. It’s now Apartheid.
            And why are you elegantly ignoring again all the posts above where I proved you wrong in detail ? go right ahead.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “ the links I provided”

            He’s quoting Itamar Marcus! How unserious is that?

            Read through these articles to find Itamar Marcus thoroughly discredited, outed as a Netanyahu henchman, a hack.
            https://972mag.com/tag/itamar-marcus/

            Ido draws on Itamar Marcus pulling the same discredited shenanigans +972 writes about, this time Itamar Marcus quite typically taking some PLO or Hamas honcho somewhere on some TV show shooting off his mouth and trying to represent that as overturning signed, public declarations and any number of public statements over the years by Abu Mazen. You can’t make this stuff up! Read through the articles on Marcus. Case closed.

            And the funniest thing of all: Ido Geller tries to pretend he not a Likudist, a Netanyahu man, in anything but name. Where’s the beef? I am half convinced Ido actually works directly out of Netanyahu’s office. Or maybe Bennett’s. Our “Education Minister.” Under cover. Ido the Educator.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “He’s quoting Itamar Marcus!” – from all the links above you found one you can pathetically try to discredit, not saying what he said of course.
            “How unserious is that?” – you think I forgot how I refuted your lying nonsense about Itamar Marcus in a previous article on this site ? you said exactly the same thing, I explained your clueless nonsense in great detail in the comments section here:
            https://972mag.com/i-dont-need-a-law-to-remind-me-of-my-inequality/136874/

            “Ido draws on Itamar Marcus pulling the same discredited ” – nope, that’s you lying and making up stuff again, as I show in detail in the comments in the link above. It’s hilarious how you latch onto him specifically and ignore the dozen or so other links of course. Or the posts above where I show you clueless you are.
            “taking some PLO or Hamas honcho somewhere on some TV show” – Again: discredited your lying nonsense about this in detail, why are you lying about this again ?
            “statements over the years by Abu Mazen. You can’t make this stuff up!” – why are you still ignoring the fact that Abu Mazen is an anti-semite Holocaust denier ? why is this so difficult for you to admit when the evidence is right there, all of it. In the Facebook comments section. Why are you ignoring this again ?

            “Case closed.” – not only do you latch onto him specifically while ignoring the rest, you do so about something which I refuted in detail before. How pathetic can you be ?
            “Ido Geller tries to pretend he not a Likudist” – Lying about me is not going to change anything, especially not the posts above where I show you you’re a clueless liar. It only shows how big of a joke you are.
            “I am half convinced Ido actually works” – I’m 100% convinced you again ignored the evidence I provided, again ignored the posts where I refute your clueless lying nonsense, all posted above.
            Well, at least you didn’t sink again to your more esoteric lying nonsense like “your evidence is fake” or “the Palestinian leaders are not important”. Good times.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            Wait a minute.. you discredited evidence because it’s from PMW ? Itamar Marcus’s site ? completely ignoring how the evidence is literally the Palestinians themselves yelling the truth in your clueless face ? in the flesh ? did Itamar Marcus put on makeup and dressed like Hamas and PLO leaders to say those things on camera ? please explain this “rationality” of yours, I forgot I’m talking to a ‘Clueless Idiot’ who will cling to his delusional nonsense and sink this low to avoid dealing with reality. Go right ahead.
            And while you’re at it, how about not pathetically ignoring the posts above where I show how you have no idea what you’re talking about backed by evidence ? why are you still ignoring them ? you think by doing so they will go away ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Note that Marcus’ purpose is to fight tooth and nail any Palestinian reconciliation, unification, moderation. He just needs them divided and conquered and he needs that Hamas boogieman and he needs the extremists out front and center. He needs to discredit. And note that Marcus quite shamelessly tells us that “The Palestinian leadership employs double messages depending on who it is speaking to,” AS IF the Israeli leadership does not do the same thing, AS IF individuals on both sides don’t pander internally for political jockeying purposes, AS IF only Israel has politicians while the Palestinians only have fiendishly united (while obviously splintered in reality) marching troops, because the Palestinian Arabs, you see, are not really complex adaptive and diverse human beings like Israeli Jews are, they are not really human beings at all. According to the manipulative propaganda of itamar Marcus.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “Note that Marcus’ purpose is to fight tooth and nail any Palestinian reconciliation, unification, moderation” – um, nope. Marcus is showing us the top leaders of Hamas and the PLO and what they say and do. Very, very clearly so. In the flesh.
            Why did you make that ridiculous lie ? try to discredit him ? literally going for ad hominem instead of the evidence, the actual facts ?
            “He just needs them divided” – how can you these ridiculous things when all he does is simply put a mirror in front of the unpleasant reality ? how can you continue to reject reality when it literally yells in your clueless face ?
            “needs that Hamas boogieman” – how can you say such ridiculous nonsense ? did he make Hamas say those things ? did he invent the ideology of Hamas ? did he made them do what they did ? did he write their charter ?
            “and he needs the extremists out front and center” – how can you continue to lie to yourself like this ? ignoring the fact that those extremists are literally the top leaders of Hamas and PLO ? they are right there, in the videos, saying what they say, how can you make these ridiculous excuses to avoid dealing with reality ? how pathetic can you be ?
            “He needs to discredit” – what are you talking about ? I ask again: did Itamar Marcus put on makeup and dressed like Hamas and PLO leaders to say those things on camera ? you think they are not serious ? they are joking ? are you that stupid ?
            “The Palestinian leadership employs double messages depending on who it is speaking to” – I literally proved this to you, multiple times, I linked the Hamas top leader himself doing this, what is known as the Palestinian doublespeak, I’ll link it again in the Facebook comments section. I proved to you how Arafat was legendary at it, to the point of winning an award for it. I’m not joking.
            “AS IF the Israeli leadership does not do the same thing” – no, they most certainly do not do the same thing like Hamas or the PLO. And Israel is a democracy, Hamas and PLO are the dictatorship and the theocracy ruling the Palestinians. This is not going to change anytime soon.
            Can you believe some idiot actually said the Palestinian leadership is not that important or influential ? I know, right ?

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “AS IF individuals on both sides don’t pander internally” – so this is your pathetic excuse ? they don’t actually mean it ? what they have been saying for decades and what they base their policy and actions on for decades regarding Israel ?
            “AS IF only Israel has politicians while the Palestinians only have fiendishly united” – Please by all means, let’s compare them. Bring me your evidence and I’ll compare it to what Hamas and PLO top leaders say, what are their declared goals. Go right ahead.
            “while obviously splintered in reality” – If someone is posing a threat, not agreeing with the top leaders of Hamas or PLO, they are disposed off. Sometimes literally splintered. You don’t seem to grasp how things operate in a theocracy or a kleptocratic dictatorship.
            “because the Palestinian Arabs, you see, are not really complex adaptive” – spoken truly like someone who doesn’t have a clue what is going on with Hamas or the PLO. As if I needed more evidence.
            “diverse human beings like Israeli Jews are” – oh they are diverse. Until they act against the ones on top, then they are dropped from buildings or shot in the back of the head or exiled. Would you like examples for each ? you really have no clue what is going on do you.
            “they are not really human beings at all” – of course they are. They are also an Islamic Jihadist Theocracy and a brutal dictatorship. Minor details, I know.
            “According to the manipulative propaganda of itamar Marcus” – refuted your lying nonsense about him in detail in the link I provided above, why are you ignoring this ? why are you again ignoring all the posts above detailing your clueless nonsense ? what you said about Likud, about Mig’s post, about the evidence I provided, etc ?
            Why dealing with this is so difficult for you ? why are you still in denial about the evidence I provided ? about reality ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            This is a barely penetrable pile of stock phrases and a lot of bluster. “Literally proved this to you.” A stock phrase. (One of your giveaways is your misuse and wild overuse of the word “literally.” But you misuse and overuse so many words. Stock phrases.) Another stock phrase: “you really have no clue.”) Do you have a computer program where you plug in a few new details in the box, click “finish,” and it takes the same stock phrases and ad hominems in its data base and cranks out the same mind-numbing product?

            Whenever I see the words “by all means” from you I know what follows is either a pretending that we did not already cover this same ground many times before or a reversal of standards of evidence and proof, so that I would have to “prove” the already demonstrated and the obvious (e.g., that Israeli politicians say one thing in English in public and another thing in Hebrew to their base and among themselves, or that Likudists including Netanyahu, double-speaker par excellence, or Naftali Bennett don’t all the time tell settlers and others that there will never be a Palestinian state; etc. Who do you think you’re kidding? Not me or educated readers.

            I recommend people read these +972 articles to get the real story on Itamar Marcus and his antics (and by extension, Ido’s antics here):
            https://972mag.com/tag/itamar-marcus/

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “the Bedouin illegal seizing of land all across the Negev”

            You gotta love that. The use of that word “seizing.” And “all across the Negev”! A conquest!

            The Bedouin, put upon, endlessly pushed around, totally powerless, stubbornly denied every service lavished on their Jewish peers in the same region, treated brutally by omission and commission and by active deceit by the Israeli overlord for no other reason than that they are not Jewish—and not even allowed, as per their humble request, to live in peace next door to the Jews being moved in because the Jews moving in are just too “pure” to bear living next to mere Bedouin—I am not making this up— these same Bedouin, according to Ido, “seize” things, like Roman Centurions. Yes, “seize” things. This so epitomizes Ido Geller’s fakery that I could not invent it.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “A stock phrase.” – how is this “a stock phrase” when the posts are right there ? when I refute your nonsense in detail ? why are you lying to yourself ?
            “overuse of the word “literally.” – Right. Example from this very own page: you made a claim about the Palestinians accepting Israel’s legitimacy and dropping the call for its demise, backed by another guy’s post, claiming they changed their goals and charter. I provided factual proof, evidence that this is not the case, you made a mistake, claimed something that wasn’t the truth, do you understand ? and you were so sure about yourself, see the post above.
            I literally and very, very clearly so made it clear that you had no idea what you were talking about. Do you understand ? you were wrong. Said the opposite of the truth. You had no idea what you were talking about. And I literally proved this. As I always do. Why are you lying about this as well when the posts are right there ? all of them, which you of course elegantly ignore. How pathetic are you ?
            “you really have no clue” – Again, 5,764 time: every single time I provide the evidence why that is. Explain very clearly why that is. And you of course ignore this part, always. Why is that ? why dealing with reality is so difficult for you ?
            “Whenever I see the words “by all means”” – oh yes, asking you to back up your idiotic nonsense with proof is preposterous. Everything I said, I backed up. You can lie and squirm around it as much as you like, this is not going to change.
            “pretending that we did not already cover this same ground” – you mean like I refuted your lying nonsense with Itamar Marcus before ? I backed it up. With a link to me doing so. You again ignored it. And apparently post after post of me refuting your clueless nonsense and lies is ‘but we covered the same ground before’.
            Well, in a sense you’re right. I refuted the same clueless nonsense of yours before.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “a reversal of standards of evidence and proof” – hilarious, says the guy who re-invented what said standard and burden of proof means when I provided you with evidence about Adalah. Your pathetic excuses to avoid addressing this were hysterical.
            “would have to “prove” the already demonstrated and the obvious” – no you didn’t, why are you lying about this again ? prove it. Back up your claims. I always do, you can’t handle it and of course ignore it.
            “that Israeli politicians say one thing in English in public and another thing in Hebrew” – Again: and I asked you to back it up so I can compare it to what is going on with Hamas and PLO to show again how you have no idea what you’re talking about, how your comparison is a joke. Why have you failed to do so ? go right ahead.
            “that there will never be a Palestinian state” – you again confuse Israel, a democracy where the government is not permanent, to Islamic Jihadist terrorist organization like Hamas or a Kleptocratic ruthless dictatorship like the Palestinian Authority.
            Bennet can say whatever he likes, so does Netanyahu. They are not the absolute rulers of Israel. And if all goes well next elections Netanyahu won’t be Prime Minister, if he’s not thrown in prison first.
            “Not me or educated readers. ” – you’re a clueless ‘Useful Idiot’ who can’t seem to handle reality even when it is banged over your head with a huge amount of evidence and posts refuting your nonsense. You make comparisons that show how you have very little idea of what’s going on and who are the parties involved.
            You seem to follow some of the most insane anti-Israel propaganda available (“Jews are not a nation”) and accept Palestinian lies as fact even when the evidence to the contrary is shoved in your clueless face repeatedly. You think ignoring this will somehow make it go away. See the many posts here and in many other articles ob this site.
            “recommend people read these +972 articles to get the real story on Itamar Marcus” – I refuted this nonsense in detail, explained why you were wrong about your pathetic attempt to discredit him, and you bring a pro-Palestinian ultra-leftist news blog to back up your nonsense ? after I refuted this ? you’re kidding right ?

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 3): “and by extension, Ido’s antics here” – oh by all means, “my antics”, that’s Ben speech for Ido again showing how he tried to pathetically discredit someone who simply posts videos and interviews with the top Palestinian leaders and what is going on in Palestinian socierty through their TV, schoolbooks, sermons, etc.
            I still can’t believe ytou made the idiotic claim that Itamar Marcus “fights Palestinian reconciliation, unification, moderation”. The guy who posts videos of Palestinian leaders telling the uncomfortable tooth is apparently responsibe for Hamas’ idology and actions, the inner-war between Fatah and Hamas, which is based on the Palestinian goals and methods, ideology and agenda and lots of money, and tribal issues of course, and he is the one fighting moderation, apparently the Islamic Jihadists who call for Jew slaughter are Itamar’s responsibility. A guy who simply exposes what is going on in Palestinian society. What you said about him is literally insane and the fact that you don’t realize this is more sad than amusing.

            “You gotta love that. The use of that word “seizing.” And “all across the Negev”! A conquest!” – as if I needed more proof that you have no idea what you’re talking about, but thanks anyway.
            “I am not making this up” – no, you’re just again posting hyperbolic nonsense and apparently you simply have no idea what is going on with the Bedouin in South Israel. evidence about this in the Facebook comments section. Please feel free to discuss this.
            “like Roman Centurions. Yes, “seize” things” – how clueless are you ? really ? you have no idea about this ? and you claimed to be an Israeli ? do you live under a rock ?

            And why are you still ignoring all the posts above where I showed how you have no idea what you’re talking about ? why are you again ignoring all the evidence I posted ? also in the Facebook comments section ? you think doing so will make it all go away ? are you a child ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “Itamar Marcus…The guy who posts videos…A guy who simply exposes what is going on…”

            Folks, read the +972 pieces on Itamar Marcus to understand why Ido Geller is simply talking through his hat.
            https://972mag.com/tag/itamar-marcus/

            Im Ido-Land nichts Neues. But you can stock up on stock phrases! He’s having a going out of business sale on stock phrases! Grab ’em while you can!

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “read the +972 pieces on Itamar Marcus to understand why Ido Geller is simply talking through his hat” – Again: I refuted your nonsense about him in detail in the link I provided above, you are now ignoring this little fact for a third time.
            Your pathetic attempts to discredit him, a guy who simply puts a mirror in front of the Palestinian leadership and media, is almost as pathetic as you trying very, very hard to ignore the huge amount of evidence I provided which refutes your lying clueless nonsense in detail, all posted above. Interesting.
            Again: what you are doing is ad hominem par excellence, ignoring the evidence at hand and pathetically attempt to attack the person because you can’t deal with what he’s showing you. Like I said, I find this fascinating. Your denial of reality should be studied.

            “Im Ido-Land nichts Neues. But you can stock up on stock phrases!” – why are you again ignoring all the posts above ? showing in great detail how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about ? how you are in deep denial about posts above detailing your embarrassing mistakes and clueless nonsense ?
            I don’t get it. You think I won’t notice ? back to the example from the last post: you posted a claim about the Palestinians backed by another poster called Mig, saying the Palestinians accepted the legitimacy of Israel and changed their charter calling for it’s demise. I refuted this lying nonsense, in detail, backed by evidence you so far have refused to touch with a ten foot pole. You think doing so somehow make the fact that I caught you with your pants down go away ? that I showed how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about cease to exist ? how pathetic can you be ?

            And why are you still ignoring all the posts above where I show in great detail how you have no idea what you’re talking about ? why are you again ignoring all the evidence I posted ? also in the Facebook comments section ? you think doing so will make it all go away ? how pathetic are you ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “Your pathetic attempts to discredit him”

            The +972 articles to which I linked are pathetic attempts to discredit Itamar Marcus? You’re definitely talking through your hat. About Itamar Marcus +972 Magazine is vastly more convincing than are you, Ido Geller. Ditto with the Negev Bedouin and places like Umm al-Hiran.

            On that subject (the Negev Bedouin) note that we have an especially profuse outburst from Ido here of “you have no idea what you are talking about, clueless liar” bluster because Ido knows we know exactly what we are talking about:
            https://972mag.com/tag/umm-al-hiran/

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Negev Bedouin
            https://972mag.com/tag/negev-bedouin/

            So many times we get the impression that Ido thinks we can’t read.

            (Stock word Alert: Ido’s running a special on the stock word “pathetic.” Five times in one post! Seventeen times so far on this page!)

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “The +972 articles to which I linked are pathetic attempts to discredit Itamar Marcus?” – And here we are again, this is a great example of your “strategy”, a ‘Usful Idiot’ guide to denial of reality. You completely ignore all the evidence in the posts above and in the Facebook comments section and latch onto Itamar Marus because you think you have something
            to work with. First, as usual, you ignored the links from PMW, his site. Then, realizing this is ridiculous, you try to dismiss it by lying to yourself (“that’s just some Hamas honcho”, “the leaders are not that important or influential”, your words). Then realizing this makes you look like a bigger joke since it’s obviously a lie, you try something else: to discredit him. This to me is the interesting part because it shows to what lengths someone will sink to in order to keep living in his fantasy land, keep ignoring reality. You bring links from this very own pro-Palestinian ultra-leftist news blog about a judge dismissing Itamar Marus’ testimony on a terrorism case regarding incitement. What my link above about this (which you now ignore for a 4th time) show is what was actually took place, the judge dismissed his testimony over the fact that he couldn’t prove for 100% how the incitement evidence he brought lead to that specific terrorist attack. What you will avoid at all costs from admitting is how the judge agreed with Itamar Marcus how the anti-Israel and anti-semitic incitement of the Palestinians, as shown on his site, is very real and very bad.
            And some time after the trial and after the events depicted in the links you brought, we know for 100% how Itamar Marcus was right, the Palestinian leadership incitement is a direct cause for terrorism.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): And now we get to the actual site: PMW is an aggregator site of interviews, articles, shows, media, sermons, etc of the Palestinians made by the Palestinians and the Arab world. Itamar Marcus is not creating this content, he’s not dressing up as Hamas/PLO leaders and acting as them, he simply provides the information as it is. And despite all the lies you tell yourself those are not some minor Palestinian leaders or fringe news articles or TV shows, those are the top most high ranking Palestinian leaders, including the top leaders of Hamas and the anti-semite Holocaust denier Palestinian President himself, Mahmoud Abbas. Those are mainstream TV shows, sermons from PA and Hamas funded mosques, the official PLO spokesperson, not the village idiot. No matter how much you lie to yourself and try to dismiss it, the truth doesn’t change. The Palestinian leadership agenda and goals didn’t change from day 1. They say this openly, they are literally yelling this in your face. I understand why this is difficult for you. You have a classic case of choice-supportive bias. You have been drinking the pro-Palestinian kool-aid for some time or it’s part of your education or upbringing (religious or otherwise) and you have invested so much in these lies that you can’t bring yourself to admit how you are wrong. Even when the people you’re pathetically attempting to defend are yelling the truth in your face. Even when I provide the evidence showing very clearly how you have no idea what your talking about (see the posts above for details, which you still refuse to address). You simply ignore it, having the mindset of a child: if you ignore it it doesn’t exist.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 3): I’ll use the same last example you now ignored for a 4th time: you made a claim about the PLO accepting Israel’s legitimacy and modifying their charter calling for Israel’s elimination. You were so sure about this that you made some hilarious comments about me being a salesman and you’re not bying or some such nonsense.
            I refuted your nonsense in detail, showed you how you were wrong, how this actually never took place, how what you said is the opposite of the truth. What do you do ? you simply ignore it. It didn’t happen if you ignore it, right ?
            You’re a joke, a classic ‘Useful Idiot’ who refuses to acknowledge reality and how it’s very different than your indoctrinated delusional nonsense. You again ignore the many posts and evidence above detailing your clueless nonsense and lies. That’s why I find ‘Useful Idiots’ like you fascinating in a hilarious kind of way.

            “On that subject (the Negev Bedouin)..exactly what we are talking about” – nope, while Umm al-Hiran is indeed built illegally it’s a different situation due to the history of agreements between the state and the Beduin and the signed agreement with the Beduin about their permanent residence and the very large compensation in land and money they are going to receive.
            You simply again ignored the evidence I provided in the Facebook comments section and focused on this specific case instead. Again with your “strategy”.
            “So many times we get the impression that Ido thinks we can’t read.” – Ido knows you live in a fantasy land of denial of reality and blissful selective ignorance and you bring me links from a pro-Palestinian ultra-leftist news blog showing exactly what I’m saying, how Beduin in the south of Israel are illegally taking over state owned land, with this site’s take on it of course.
            Why are you again ignoring the evidence I provided ? maybe you also like to talk about the organized crime and tribal violence of the Bedouin in the Negev ? I would like to see the pro-Palestinian ultra-leftist take on that aspect of reality in the Negev and how you are going to attempt to ignore, deflect and lie about something every Israeli who lived there is familiar with.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “because you think you have something to work with”

            But I do. Your use of Itamar Marcus is most revealing of how you think and how you try to slip nonsense by us. It is emblematic. It is exposing. I’m smart enough not to exhaust myself and others by drilling down on the entire heaping pile of tedious nonsense you serve up daily but to go right for the jugular, to mine the gold (LoL). Ido, you are such a perfect foil. I’d have to invent you….

            “this very own pro-Palestinian ultra-leftist news blog”

            The last resort of the right wing propagandist scoundrel. “Well, this is an ‘ultra-leftist’ site anyway, so there. Nyah Nyah.” “Ultra-leftist” is merely right wing extremist Israel’s attempt to move the goal posts. Nothing doing. Ido, you give the overwhelming impression of being a fake. You keep saying you are against the occupation. Where’s the beef? Everything you write sounds like standard issue PR from Netanyahu or Bennett’s offices.

            “nope”

            Another stock word of yours. It has that air of somebody closing their ears and eyes and stubbornly yelling “no” to anything he doesn’t like to believe.

            “maybe you also like to talk about the organized crime and tribal violence of the Bedouin in the Negev?”

            A classic case of both changing the subject to cast aspersion but inadvertently introducing an example of how the Bedouin (and not just the Bedouin but the Arabs of Israel generally) have been purposefully denied every basic service, including policing, and every means of advancing out of poverty. Would you like to talk about the organized crime and tribal violence of the pampered Jewish settlers of the occupation? No? I didn’t think so.

            “pro-Palestinian ultra-leftist”

            See above.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “But I do” – no, you don’t. You just ignored everything I said about why you’re wrong. All of it. You’re lying, making stuff up. Ignoring what PMW does. I just explained this in detail and you like a child simply ignores it so it’ll go away.
            “you think and how you try to slip nonsense by us” – OK. Point to what I said and explain how it’s nonsense. Go right ahead. I explained in detail how you are wrong, how you’re being deceitful, how you simply ignore the basic facts and this is your answer: no I don’t. Nothing to back it up. Not daring to address my posts above, nothing to refute what I said like I did regarding your nonsense. Nothing. Just take your word for it. If I ever wanted any definitive proof that you’re a joke, you now handed it to me on a silver platter and for that I thank you.
            “I’m smart enough not to exhaust myself and others by drilling down on the entire heaping pile” – that’s an interesting “rephrasing” of ‘I’m not going to touch your detailed explanations of why I’m wrong and how I obviously have no idea what I’m talking about’ because attempting to do so will again confront you with
            the realization of how you’re a joke. How you can’t handle the fact that you’re wrong, that you have no idea what you’re talking about as I explain in detail backed by evidence you so far refused to touch.
            “Ido, you are such a perfect foil” – as always the amusing ‘switch’ technique. I’m the foil, not the clueless clown I just exposed in detail backed by countless posts filled with detailed evidence. This is great.
            “The last resort of the right wing propagandist scoundrel” – right, this site is not a pro-Palestinian ultra leftist site. Just the people who publish articles in it, articles bordering on alternate reality science fiction as I showed in the past with detailed proof. You’re lying about this as well ?
            what last resort ? what are you blabbering about ? I posted detailed explanations and exposed your clueless lying nonsense in detail all over this comments section, backed by evidence you refuse to touch yet again. You really do get carried away with the ‘no, you!’ switch “strategy”. Pathetic as always.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “you give the overwhelming impression of being a fake” – coming from the clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about, as detailed in the posts above, made me laugh out loud. Thank you.
            “You keep saying you are against the occupation. Where’s the beef?” – Why are you repeating this idiotic lie again ? I explained this to you about 50 times now, are you mentally deficient ?
            “sounds like standard issue PR from Netanyahu or Bennett’s offices” – then address it, refute it, it’s all right there. Go right ahead. I refuted your clueless lying nonsense in detail. Backed by evidence you refuse to touch. Why is this so difficult for you ?
            “Another stock word of yours” – right, explaining in detail how your example is very different from the evidence I posted, which you so far have ignored repeatedly. Then address it. Explain how I’m wrong. Go ahead. What’s stopping you ?
            “stubbornly yelling “no” to anything he doesn’t like to believe” – that’s an interesting “rephrasing” to ‘you just again pointed out how I’m wrong and how my example is not similar to the evidence you posted’. Why are you lying to yourself like this ?
            “A classic case of both changing the subject ” – this is hysterical coming from someone who as I showed repeatedly over quite a few articles, changes the subject so he can avoid addressing the actual discussed subject where I show in detail how you have no idea what you’re talking about.
            I didn’t change the subject as I quite clearly addressed it and explained how you are wrong. How your example is nothing like the evidence I provided (which you of course ignored again).
            “purposefully denied every basic service, including policing” – I’m sure it has nothing to do with how in the past Arabs burned down police stations in their towns, refusing to cooperate with “the yayud” so they won’t be labeled as traitors, how police officers refuse to enter Arab/Beduin towns and villages without major backup because they know what will happen to them, how they see the Israeli law as a recommendation omly and their tribal laws and customs override it, all the things I’m sure you are familiar with if you’re an Israeli.

            more to follow

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 3): And now I’ll go back to one of the examples above where I showed how you have no idea what you’re talking about, one of many, since you now just ignored it for a 5th time:
            you made a claim about the PLO accepting Israel’s legitimacy and modifying their charter calling for Israel’s elimination. You were so sure about this that you made some hilarious comments about me being a salesman and you’re not buying or some such nonsense.
            I refuted your nonsense in detail, showed you how you were factually incorrect, how this actually never took place, how what you said is the opposite of the truth. What do you do ? you simply ignore it. It didn’t happen if you ignore it, right ? how can you not realize doing so is infantile ?

            ” Would you like to talk about the organized crime and tribal violence of the pampered Jewish settlers of the occupation? No?” – Sure. Why not. How about addressing all the posts above showing in detail how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about first ?
            your idiotic nonsense about Itamar Marcus and your pathetic lying attempts to discredit him since you can’t handle the uncomfortable truth he is showing you ? all detailed in the posts above, which you repeatedly ignore.
            “See above.” – oh you took the words out of my mouth. Please do.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Honestly, you remind me of Liberman.
            https://972mag.com/in-khan-al-ahmar-the-audacity-of-unchecked-israeli-power/138085/

            You true home seems like Yisrael Beiteinu, Likud or Jewish Home. You say you think Bibi is the worst and you support ending the occupation. Where’s the beef? It seems more like you support the complete surrender of the Palestinians. All these parties sure do. And engage in loads of double-speak about that.

            Oops, I’ve violated Ido’s Cardinal Rule:

            Only Arabs speak double speak. Jews never do or if they do it’s kinda sorta ok cuz it’s just some minor guy who can say whatever he likes cuz it’s a ‘democracy’ and so when the Prime Minister for nine and a half years of the state (Benjamin “I’m a proud member of the rabble” Netanyahu) engages in double-speak it’s not like those Arabs cuz…well…just cuz…we’re Jews, you see. We’re complicated and nuanced and political unlike them A-rabs who are all crazed, Jew-blood-craving terrrrorist fiends, troops marching all in a line, and none of them can say anything except the official party line so that’s how you know an Arab is telling the truth cuz he opens his mouth and has to say the real Israel-destroying truth or otherwise they’ll whack him cuz that’s how them Arabs are, but at the same time them Arabs never tell the truth, so if one of them doesn’t say “I want to destroy the Jews” then he’s lying because the Arabs told him to lie or he’s so minor it don’t count, you see how that works?, and if you don’t believe me you must be some kinda clueless lying liar who hilariously has no idea what he’s talking about, OK?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “Honestly, you remind me of Liberman” – honestly you just ignored again all the posts about detailing your clueless nonsense, your lies and hilarious ignorance. Your pathetic attempts to avoid addressing some of the evidence I provided because of your lying nonsense about Itamar Marcus, about what his site is and what it contains, completely ignoring my posts showing your brilliant “strategy” of avoiding my posts showing in detail how you have no idea what you’re talking about. And of course you completely ignored the part where I ask you to back up your nonsense with actual proof and evidence.
            And of course you now change the subject again which is extra hilarious because you blamed me for doing exactly that, even though I didn’t as I explained in the last post, which you of course ignored.
            “You true home seems like Yisrael Beiteinu” – lie about me as much as you like, what I said to you 50 times about this is not going to change. Just like the posts above, showing how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about, backed by evidence which you refuse to touch, will not change.
            “Where’s the beef?” – I gave you an answer I believe about 20 times or so, you again ignore this little fact. I explained this like to a child and you still can’t seem to grasp this. Are you playing dumb or really this stupid ?
            “you support the complete surrender of the Palestinians” – what are you talking about ? why are you lying about this when you know exactly what I said ?
            “Only Arabs speak double speak” – I addressed this literally 10 times if not more. Showed you how what the Palestinians are saying about Israel and Jews, which I backed with proof and evidence you refuse to touch, is the same from day 1.
            See the evidence in the Facebook comments section. How they lie and why that is. Showed you how your comparison to Israel is ridiculous. You again ignore this. Why is that ? you think I won’t notice ? you think that if you simply refuse to address the evidence it’ll go away ?

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): are you 5 years old ? The goals, actions and charters of Hamas and PLO are not “doublespeak”. Hamas Islamic fundamentalist ideology is not “doublespeak”. Your denial of reality is truly amazing. See my posts above about this and your pathetic “strategy”, how you refuse to address videos of the Palestinian leaders literally yelling the truth to your face. Is that “doublespeak” ? well then it sure seems to be very consistent since it’s also written in their respective charters and they have been saying it since their terrorist organizations were established, it’s their guiding ideology and agenda, the refusal to accept the legitimacy of Israel, calling for Israel’s elimination, etc. Now that’s some very consistent “doublespeak”. You’re a joke.

            “Jews never do or if they do it’s kinda sorta ok cuz it’s just some minor guy” – yes, the same Jews who offered the Palestinian peace agreements several times giving them almost all the West Bank. You’re comparing this to the Hamas and Fatah leadership ? are you that clueless ?
            “he likes cuz it’s a ‘democracy’” – you can’t be this stupid, not understanding the difference between a democracy to Islamic Theocracy and a Kelpocratic Dictatorship. I refuse to believe someone can be this stupid.
            “when the Prime Minister for nine and a half years of the state” – yes, it’s very similar to the Gaza Islamic fundamentalist theocracy and the Fatah rule over the Palestinians from day one. Identical. You’re a fool.
            “We’re complicated and nuanced and political unlike them A-rabs” – I literally listed the difference multiple times which you refuse to this day to address and you continue to spew nonsense about this. Amazing.
            “who are all crazed, Jew-blood-craving terrrrorist fiends” – And now we see a nice combination of a lie and a denial of reality. Never said “all”, I refer to the Palestinian leadership and you know it, and you are still in denial about the terrorism, the calls, goals and incentives of the Palestinian leadership regarding Jew murder even after I bang you over the head with the evidence for 50 times.
            Evidence you refuse to even address because dealing with reality is very uncomfortable for you.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 3): “say anything except the official party line” – literally address this exact point, explained to you what happens when someone dares to go against the rule of an Islamic Theocracy like Hamas or a dictatorship like Fatah holds in the West Bank, and how they end up and you still in denial about this ? would you like some examples ? I asked and you simply ignored it, as always. You seem to be extremely clueless about this issue.
            “the real Israel-destroying truth” – why are you still refusing to address the evidence I provided about the goals, actions and agenda of the Palestinian leadership ? it’s right there in the posts above and the Facebook comments section. Why is this so difficult for you ? you really think that if you tell these hilarious lies and clueless nonsense while ignoring the evidence contradicting you, it’ll make it all go away ?
            “so if one of them doesn’t say “I want to destroy the Jews”” – why are you still lying about this when the evidence is right there ? ‘one of them’ ? you’re kidding, right ? their objectives, charter, their top leadership, they literally yell this in your clueless face, why are you lying about this ?
            “you see how that works?” – oh yes. I see how again you completely ignored the posts above showing your lies, your clueless nonsense, your inability to face reality and your hilarious “techniques”. How you are a prime example of a ‘Useful Idiot’ who doesn’t let reality confuse him, who clings to his lying nonsense even when the evidence contradicting his nonsense is shoved in his face repeatedly.
            “and if you don’t believe me” – you already tried the ‘take my word for it’ without proving your argument, backing it up or attempting to refute my posts detailing your clueless nonsense or even address them. With the expected hilarious results.
            “you must be some kinda clueless lying liar who hilariously has no idea what he’s talking about” – and here we have another example of one of your “techniques” to avoid addressing my posts and coming to terms with the fact that you have no idea what you’re talking about, what I call the “no..you!” strategy. You think that if you say the same things I do (without backing them with anything of course) this will somehow make the posts above detailing your clueless nonsense and lies, the evidence I provided showing how you have no idea what you’re talking about, go away ? you’re adorable.

            more to follow

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 4): And now I’ll go back to one of the examples above where I showed how you have no idea what you’re talking about, one of many, since you now just ignored it for a 6th time:
            you made a claim about the PLO accepting Israel’s legitimacy and modifying their charter calling for Israel’s elimination. You were so sure about this that you made some hilarious comments about me being a salesman and you’re not buying or some such nonsense.
            I refuted your nonsense in detail, showed you how you were factually incorrect, how this actually never took place, how what you said is the opposite of the truth. What do you do ? you simply ignore it. It didn’t happen if you ignore it, right ? how can you not realize doing so is infantile ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            You also remind me of Danny Danon.

            Israeli Ambassador to the UN Danny Danon sharply criticized El-Ad on Saturday, saying that “B’Tselem has already proved that they are cooperating with Israel’s enemies. This time, with a country that has nicknamed Israeli soldiers ‘murderers.’ It is not only a disgrace and an insult to the organization; it crosses red lines for other nations with anti-Israel agendas who are inviting them to bring ‘evidence’ against us.”

            El-Ad told Haaretz in response: “I will portray the objective reality of the situation in the West Bank and its significance. When I appeared before the Security Council two years ago, the Israeli ambassador was also busy slandering and making threats, but he couldn’t contradict a single fact. We are on the eve of the demolition of Khan al-Ahmar, an issue that greatly concerns the international community as well as the Security Council. It is important for us to return and say: human rights, and in particular violations that occur in the occupied territories, which are outside of the official borders of the state, are certainly of international concern.”

            https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-head-of-israeli-human-rights-ngo-invited-to-appear-before-un-security-council-1.6552337

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “You also remind me of Danny Danon” – you also again completely ignored the many posts above showing in detail how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about. You also again ignored all the evidence and proof I provided which refuted your clueless nonsense.
            You again attempt to change the subject which as I said is extra hilarious because you blamed me for doing it, which of course I didn’t as I already explained above. Which you of course ignored as well.
            “B’Tselem has already proved that they are cooperating with Israel’s enemies” – why are you putting so much effort in changing the subject and not to address the many posts and evidence above detailing your clueless nonsense and lies ? your inability to process reality ?
            your pathetic “techniques” to avoid addressing the evidence I provided, which includes video evidence no less of the people you defend contradicting you on camera to your face, your pathetic attempt to discredit Itamar Marcus so you won’t have do deal with the PMW links, how you were wrong about what you claimed about him, how you ignore the fact that the PMW is an aggregator site with content made by the Palestinians themselves and the Arab word. Your hilarious pathetic attempts to dismiss the evidence was comedy gold (“just some Hamas honcho”, “their leaders are not that important or influential”, your words).
            I’ll just copy/paste it again since you ignored it again from the last posts: I’ll gladly change the subject again, when you finally address the posts above showing in detail how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about which you ignore repeatedly.
            your idiotic nonsense about Itamar Marcus and your pathetic lying attempts to discredit him since you can’t handle the uncomfortable truth he is showing you, all detailed in the posts above, which you repeatedly ignore. you’re pathetic lies about me. All in a very hilarious effort not to touch the posts and evidence I provided proving how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): And now I’ll go back to one of the examples above where I showed how you have no idea what you’re talking about, one of many, since you now just ignored it for a 7th time:
            you made a claim about the PLO accepting Israel’s legitimacy and modifying their charter calling for Israel’s elimination. You were so sure about this that you made some hilarious comments about me being a salesman and you’re not buying or some such nonsense.
            I refuted your nonsense in detail, showed you how you were factually incorrect, how this actually never took place, how what you said is the opposite of the truth. What do you do ? how you handled the fact that I proved you had no idea what you were talking about ? you simply ignore it. It didn’t happen if you ignore it, right ? how can you not realize doing so is infantile ?

            And as usual nice of you to provide a link you know I can’t read. I only mentioned this 274 times before so I get why you are still struggling with this.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Your refusal to pay for a subscription to Israel’s most serious mainstream newspaper is your responsibility, not mine. It’s like an American complaining that someone links to the New York Times and the Washington Post. Or a Parisian complaining that someone links to Le Monde and Libération. But you can read these:

            +972 pieces on Itamar Marcus
            https://972mag.com/tag/itamar-marcus/

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “Your refusal to pay for a subscription” – I went over this with you about 8 or 9 times. I have no idea why you continue with this idiotic nonsense.
            Again, 10th time ? I don’t pay for any online news, not Ha’aretz, not anyone. Do you understand ? is this written in Sanskrit ? I read Ha’aretz in its printed form when available at my workplace which is almost every week.
            “most serious mainstream newspaper is your responsibility, not mine” – hilarious.. it’s my responsibility.. that’s fantastic. You know why this paper has a weekday exposure rate in Israel of 3.9% and dropping ? because quite a few of its writers lost contact with reality long ago and they think they are writing alternative reality fan fiction.
            You seem to post almost all links from Ha’aretz or this very own news blog, both filled with pro-Palestinian left-wing propaganda which sometimes border on fantasy. I think I figured out why you have such a hard time dealing with reality even when the evidence refuting your clueless nonsense is banged on your head repeatedly.
            “an American complaining that someone links to the New York Times and the Washington” – what’s with you and idiotic unrelated comparisons ? just entered both sites and I could read their articles without any problem, not to mention how one is the 2nd most popular paper in the US and the other has a highest market-penetration rates of any metropolitan news daily in the US.
            Are you going to ignore how I just pointed out how your comparison was a joke as well like the rest of the posts above detailing your clueless nonsense and lies ?

            “Parisian complaining that someone links to Le Monde, Libération” – I see you’re on a clueless roll, don’t let me stop you. Just I thought you should know that I was able to read articles on both without any paywall. Do they also publish alternate reality fan fiction like Ha’aretz ?
            “But you can read these” – and I addressed them, explained in detail how you are wrong, many times in the posts above regarding your pathetic attempt to discredit Itamar Marcus so you won’t have to deal with reality. Why are you ignoring this as if the posts above are written in invisible ink ? I don’t get it, it’s all there. Why are you lying to yourself like this ? is this some kind of mental block ? psychological conditioning ?

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): Why are you still ignoring the posts above detailing your clueless nonsense ? your repeated lies ? the evidence I provided ? The fact that you have no idea what you’re talking about ?
            And now I’ll go back to one of the examples above where I showed how you have no idea what you’re talking about, one of many, since you now just ignored it for a 8th time:
            you made a claim about the PLO accepting Israel’s legitimacy and modifying their charter calling for Israel’s elimination. You were so sure about this that you made some hilarious comments about me being a salesman and you’re not buying or some such nonsense.
            I refuted your nonsense in detail, showed you how you were factually incorrect, how this actually never took place, how what you said is the opposite of the truth. What do you do ? how you handled the fact that I proved you had no idea what you were talking about ? you simply ignore it. It didn’t happen if you ignore it, right ? how can you not realize doing so is infantile ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Both the Times and the Post have paywalls. The Times allows five free articles per month, the Post allows ten. This is further evidence of your superficiality. You dropped by, accessed a few articles and drew major conclusions. I shouldn’t like to put you in charge of anything. The cost of an annual Haaretz subscription is US $120. Less than 33 cents per day. Why so cheap?
            A Haaretz “weekday exposure rate in Israel of 3.9% and dropping” can be seen as evidence of how ever more insular, benighted, reactionary, cult-like, the Israeli populace is taken as a whole. Kind of makes +972 Magazine writers’ point for them, don’t you think? +972 (and its reactionary right wing commenters) is testimony to how willfully ignorant, how “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil” is the Israeli broader populace. +972 makes this point often So I don’t think you are telling us something new, but confirming what is already known.
            Haaretz is in fact Israel’s only serious major newspaper, its longest running paper, and its most influential and respected. It is merely liberal and sophisticated, and enlightened and supportive of exploited groups so stands out in a reactionary right wing sea and a reactionary “status quo” in its country. Yes the masses imbibe Israel Hayom and Yedioth Achronot but Haaretz is by consensus Israel’s most influential newspaper, read by the better educated and more sophisticated, and for Israel is much as The New York Times is for the United States, the newspaper of record, by consensus Israel’s best and most prestigious— in effect, the Israeli equivalent of the New York Times. The people who read it are more sophisticated and educated than most. It has only lost public standing because that public has so massively shifted in a reactionary cult direction. Not my problem. That you do not read it on a daily basis suggests to me how little you realty know and how much you depend on “everybody knows” misinformation and disinformation.
            All one has to do is read Haaretz and the Jerusalem Post side by side on the same events daily for one year. Compare and contrast. A true eye opener and education. You realize that the readership of the JPost has (in your favorite stock phrase) no idea what they are talking about, swim in a sea of willful ignorance and prejudice, and the JPost keeps them that way. It is a propaganda sheet not a newspaper, it deliberately filters out every single thing +972 Magazine regularly reports. That it is “in the consensus” only makes my point. Really, if one’s sole source on Israel were the JPost, one would be, in another stock phrase of yours, totally clueless. Like the vast majority of Americans.
            Over and over, from commenters such as ‘Halevy’ and ‘Ido’ we get reminded, with smug satisfaction, of how few Israelis think like the writers of +972 Magazine. As if we didn’t know that and know that of course that is the very reason for +972’s existence.
            My opinion of course. You’re entitled to your own, but, well, we know what that is. No need for a three part line-item screed to remake your tedious point for the millionth time. We get it. Thanks.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            It is, I might add, the very reason Noam Sheizaf, when he founded +972, decided to publish it in English and Hebrew, so as to reach the outside world. Because he knew Israelis were not listening, refused to listen to groups like Breaking the Silence. And the reason Breaking the Silence started to talk outside Israel. Because Israelis not only refused to listen, they persecuted the silence breakers and used their testimony to prosecute them and shut them up. We know how this works. You are not tellling us anything.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “Both the Times and the Post have paywalls” – not the articles I’m clicking, I read more than 5 each. Ha’aretz also doesn’t have paywalls for everything, you for some reason always link the premium paywalled links. Older ones are usually fine.
            “he Times allows five free articles per month” – checked again, clicked more than 10 full articles.
            “Washington Post” – yes they are paywalled but I didn’t notice as I didn’t reach their limit, 10 is enough not to notice if you’re not a regular.
            “This is further evidence of your superficiality” – oh no, this is a further evidence of your defective comparison abilities, you compared 2 of the most popular newspapers in the US to Ha’aretz, which you hilariously described as “serious mainstream newspaper”, a paper with a weekday exposure rate of 3.9%. You apparently have no idea what ‘mainstream’ means as my local high-school paper has a bigger circulation. Also calling a paper with a habit of posting pro-Palestinian propaganda
            and articles so out of touch with reality that it borders on comedy as ‘serious’ is amusing. Some articles are great I agree, some seem like alternate reality fan fiction by people who appear as if they missed a round of medication.
            “You dropped by, accessed a few articles and drew major conclusions” – no, I dropped by, pointed out how your comparison is ridiculous and explained why that is.
            11th time: I don’t pay for on-line news, as I said to you multiple times this is by principle. Any news, Not just Ha’aretz. Why on earth will I pay them ? I prefer my fantasy fiction in book form. There are many other non-paywalled news sources who are actually more in touch with reality, you should try those instead of linking only to Ha’aretz and this news blog.
            I still can’t get over your hilarious nonsense of claiming reading Ha’aretz is “my responsibility”. Why not my duty ? as I said I do read it, in the printed form. You repeatedly ignore this for some reason. And I enjoy doing so, in some articles it’s like a glimpse into the mind of the ‘Useful Idiot’. Fascinating stuff.
            Sadly with their, um, “mainstream” success I don’t expect them to be around in the future. They were in danger of closing a couple of years ago.
            “Why so cheap?” – why are you refusing to address the many posts above showing how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about ? also it’s free of charge. Tell you what, you do that and I’ll subscribe to Ha’aretz for a year.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “seen as evidence of how ever more insular, benighted, reactionary, cult-like, the Israeli” – it also can be seen as evidence that you had no idea what you were talking about when you described them as “Israel’s most serious mainstream newspaper”.
            It has more to do with evidence to the many free of charge alternatives that don’t include pro-Palestinian propaganda and ‘Useful Idiot’ editorials by why go for the Occam’s Razor when you can make up nonsense, right ?
            “is testimony to how willfully ignorant is the Israeli broader populace” – utter nonsense. What exactly are you basing your learned conclusion on ? the voices in your head ? on that one idiot who I don’t agree with who posts here ? Gordin Halevy something ?
            why are you still ignoring the many posts made by me which very clearly detail your clueless nonsense and ignorance ? your embarrassing mistakes ? how you have no idea about what you’re talking about ? you lies ?
            “I don’t think you are telling us something new” – besides refuting your clueless lying nonsense in detail that is, which you refuse to address repeatedly.
            “Haaretz is in fact Israel’s only serious major newspaper” – thanks for the laugh. I’m sure this has nothing to do with how it’s completely in alignment with your ‘Useful Idiot’ pro-Palestinian delusional worldview. Nothing at all.
            “Haaretz is by consensus Israel’s most influential newspaper” – by your consensus maybe. Maybe to pro-Palestinian English speakers who have no idea what actually goes on in Israel and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Or basic history.
            Maybe to people who don’t mind how Ha’aretz sometimes make serious factual errors but not often bother to correct them.
            “the Israeli equivalent of the New York Times” – stop, you’re going to give me a heart attack from laughing so hard.
            “The people who read it are more sophisticated and educated than most” – and more pretty and well groomed. And more sexually active. I love it when you’re on a roll.
            “Not my problem” – neither is mine. Still doesn’t cancel out the utter nonsense you blabbered about this.
            “That you do not read it on a daily basis suggests to me how little you realty know” – now that’s especially hilarious considering the many posts above refuting your clueless nonsense and embarrassing mistakes which you to this moment still refuse to address.
            Apparently you think that if you simply ignore them the do not exist. Very sophisticated and educated of you.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 3): “you depend on “everybody knows” misinformation” – you meant the proof and evidence I provided ? which you refuse to touch with a ten foot pole because you can’t handle reality ? my posts refuting your clueless nonsense backed by evidence ? that you are still ignoring ?
            “Compare and contrast” – But I do read Ha’aretz as I told you a dozen times, and Ynet, and JPost, and Maariv. I also read Yisrael Hayom but as a comedy, similar to some articles in Ha’aretz.
            “the JPost keeps them that way. It is a propaganda sheet not a newspaper” – what a coincidence, that’s exactly what this very own news blog and quite a few articles on Ha’aretz are.
            “it deliberately filters out every single thing +972 Magazine regularly reports” – as I pointed out, and posted quite a few times, what this blog reports sometimes go even beyond pro-Palestinian lies and into fantasy fiction. Still entertaining though.
            “if one’s sole source on Israel were the JPost” – if one’s sole source was Ha’aretz and this very own news blog he won’t be just clueless, but proponent of some of the more rabid lying pro-Palestinian propaganda.
            “such as ‘Halevy’ and ‘Ido’” – right, right, we’re the same. Besides the fact that he is not pointing out in detail how you have no idea what you’re talking about, how you’re a clueless liar backed by evidence you refuse to touch in posts you refuse to address.
            “with smug satisfaction” – literally made me spit out coffee.. one of your best.
            “few Israelis think like the writers of +972 Magazine” – oh I really want this to be true, how very few Israelis don’t believe pro-Palestinian propaganda lying nonsense and “historic revisionism”.
            “the very reason for +972’s existence” – to me it’s the endless amusement of the ‘Useful Idiots’ who post in their comments section.
            “You’re entitled to your own, but, well, we know what that is” – yes, we sure do. It’s posted above in detail, all the posts refuting your clueless lying nonsense that you still repeatedly refuse to address. I wonder why that is.
            “No need for a three part line-item” – you’re giving me so much to work with.
            “your tedious point for the millionth time. We get it” – what a coincidence, you again for how many times now ignore the posts above detailing your clueless nonsense, your repeated lies and the evidence I provided.
            I get it course, why you still refuse to address the posts. Dealing with reality can be very uncomfortable for the ‘Usful Idiot’.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (party 4): “so as to reach the outside world” – it’s very easy to lie to people and present a one-sided twisted version of reality, to spread misinformation and “historic revisionism” to people far removed from this reality who have no clue about what is actually going on, what the Palestinian leadership goals are, what is the actual history and facts of the conflict are.
            “Because he knew Israelis were not listening” – quite the opposite of course, and many actually listen to what is being said in Arabic, what the Palestinian leadership try to hide from Westerners.
            “Breaking the Silence” – Already went over the farce that is “Breaking the Silence” with you about 7 or 8 times:
            https://en.mida.org.il/2017/11/28/farce-breaking-silence/

            “We know how this works” – as evident by the many posts above, you sure don’t.
            “You are not telling us anything” – the many posts above and lots of evidence you repeatedly ignore suggest otherwise.
            And now I’ll go back to one of the examples above where I showed how you have no idea what you’re talking about, one of many, since you now just ignored it for a 9th time:
            you made a claim about the PLO accepting Israel’s legitimacy and modifying their charter calling for Israel’s elimination. You were so sure about this that you made some hilarious comments about me being a salesman and you’re not buying or some such nonsense.
            I refuted your nonsense in detail, showed you how you were factually incorrect, how what you said is the opposite of the truth. What do you do ? how you handled the fact that I proved you had no idea what you were talking about ? you ignore it. It didn’t happen if you ignore it, right ? very mature of you.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Lord have mercy. Please resubmit, in 500 words or less, this excessively verbose, impenetrable, four-part screed. Not too much to ask. 250 words would be even better. Otherwise, I won’t be reading it. Your cooperation is appreciated. Or you could do it in a mere 15 words. Here, I’ll do it for you:

            “You are a clueless liar who hilariously has no idea what he is talking about.”

            There, that about sums it up.

            …Meanwhile, it does not take much to deflate your pretensions. (I’m doing it now in just ten words, not counting the headlines below.)

            N.Y. Times Scales Back Free Articles to Get More Subscribers
            By Gerry Smith
            December 1, 2017
            https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-01/n-y-times-scales-back-free-articles-to-get-readers-to-subscribe

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “four-part screed” – as always, an interesting “rephrasing” to me pointing out you usual clueless nonsense. Which you of course ignored. Don’t give me so much material of your clueless lying nonsense and I promise to be brief.
            “250 words would be even better” – not even enough to cover the last example of you not knowing what you’re talking about, the one you just ignored for a 10th time, of me refuting your post about PLO accepting Israel’s legitimacy and amending their charter. Which you were factually incorrect about. Why is that ? you honestly think ignoring my posts, showing in detail how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about has any positive effect for your “argument” ? you don’t realize that not being able to address all those posts and evidence is not working in your favor ?
            “Your cooperation is appreciated” – you finally addressing the many posts above where I show in detail how you’re a clueless ‘Useful Idiot’ liar who has no idea what he’s talking about, backed by evidence you refuse to touch, will be much more appreciated.
            “There, that about sums it up” – we finally agree on something. So now will you address the many posts above showing in detail how you’re a clueless liar who has no idea what he’s talking about ? and the evidence posted there and in the Facebook comments section ?
            “it does not take much to deflate your pretensions” – then go right ahead, the posts are right there, your clueless nonsense explained in detail is all right there, backed by evidence you still refuse to acknowledge. Why are you again ignoring this ? how can you not realize that not being able to do this repeatedly is an answer all by itself ?

            “N.Y. Times Scales Back Free Articles” – so ? how does this change the fact that I could read as many articles as I wanted ? how does this change the nonsense you blabbered about Ha’aretz ? your wrong comparison ? all detailed in the posts above, which you of course completely ignored ?
            This is your hilariously pathetic comeback ? are you 5 years old ? why dealing with the reality of me refuting your clueless nonsense is so difficult for you that you refuse to address it repeatedly ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Looking at our agreed upon summarization of your thinking, i.e., “You are a clueless liar who hilariously has no idea what he is talking about,” I find this an inadequate analysis which does not bear further scrutiny.

            Reply to Comment
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