Appreciate this article? +972 depends on your support.

Click here to help us keep going

Analysis News
Visit our Hebrew site, "Local Call" , in partnership with Just Vision.

Defense Minister Ya'alon: I am not looking for a solution, I am looking for a way to manage the conflict

Moshe Ya’alon is telling it like it is: What you see now in the West Bank and Gaza is Israel’s solution. 

Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon looks over Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's shoulder at a military exercise, (Photo by Kobi Gideon / GPO)

Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon looks over Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s shoulder at a military exercise. Ya’alon is the closest minister to Netanyahu since the Gaza war (Photo by Kobi Gideon / GPO)

Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon gave a few holiday interviews to the Israeli media. Ya’alon, who has been Netanyahu’s closest partner in the coalition since the Gaza war, was fairly open when he spoke about the Palestinian issue, and a couple of his answers were especially telling.

When asked by the pro-Netanyahu paper Yisrael Hayom whether he sees in Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas a partner for peace, Ya’alon not only rejected the idea, but went on to dismiss the mere notion of “solving” the Palestinian issue. In short, Ya’alon thinks that maintaining control over the Palestinians is in Israel’s national interest, which no “solution” can or should compromise on.

I believe this is the view of most of the Israeli establishment right now. But Ya’alon, as Secretary Kerry learned last year, has a habit of saying what others around him are thinking.

I am not looking for a solution, I am looking for a way to manage the conflict and the maintain relations in a way that works for our interests. We need to free ourselves of the notion that everything boils down to only one option called a [Palestinian] state. As far as I am concerned let them call it the Palestinian Empire. I don’t care. It is an autonomy if it is ultimately a demilitarized territory. That is not a status quo, it is the establishment of a modus vivendi that is tolerable and serves our interests.”

What is interesting in the above quote is the light it sheds on the idea of a Palestinian state: Netanyahu and his government were willing to sign onto something that would be called a state (they can call it the Palestinian Empire for all Ya’alon cares), but never an independent state, the way the world understand this term. So even if the Kerry process would have ended with an agreement, it could not have ended the occupation. And nothing the Palestinians say or do can change that.

Regarding Gaza, Ya’alon has the same idea – maintaining the conflict:

“We withdrew from Gaza. The Gazans chose Hamas, which in turn chose to manufacture rockets instead of exporting strawberries, and for that they are paying a price. It is probably not a permanent and stable solution, but it is important to talk about ‘crisis management’ in regard to Gaza as well as Judea and Samaria [West Bank – N.S.] in such a way that will serve our interests.

I highly recommend checking out Larry Derfner’s feature on the Israeli establishment’s view post-Gaza. I think Ya’alon pretty much confirmed everything in it. As I wrote here before, the Gaza war was part of Israel’s strategy of maintaining the status quo. This is Netanyahu and Ya’alon’s solution.

Related:
War is the new system of governance (and five other Gaza takeaways)
There’s nothing static about the West Bank ‘status quo’

Newsletter banner 6 -540

For additional original analysis and breaking news, visit +972 Magazine's Facebook page or follow us on Twitter. Our newsletter features a comprehensive round-up of the week's events. Sign up here.

View article: AAA
Share article
Print article
  • LEAVE A COMMENT

    * Required

    COMMENTS

    1. JohnWV

      Gaza is Israel’s open air prison for Palestinians guilty only of their ethnicity. The racist Jewish state with the world’s fourth most powerful military incarcerates, baits and murders Palestinians enjoying a near one hundred to one kill ratio. Now Israel has destroyed much of Gaza and somehow expects no consequences. Absurd. The Jews must be forced to recognize an armed Palestine with externally enforced autonomy, eviction of all settlers, true contiguity encompassing Gaza, the West Bank and Jerusalem together, neither pinched nor parceled, and pay for rebuilding Gaza plus crippling punitive reparations.

      Reply to Comment
      • geoff

        Dear John, One simply cannot make a case or statement entirely out of context.Firstly Gaza;as a first move to see what would happen,Israel COMPLETELY WITHDREW from the Gaza Strip in 2005,forcing their people out.THey left many established businesses which Hamas destroyed,including greenhouses and other useful structures.They then started firing rockets at Israel.After several years,Israel 3 times attempted to stop this via various incursions,but,because of Hamas only wishing to destroy Israel,it was all to no avail.Any blockade started after Israel had long vacated Gaza,was in order to stop weapons coming in.Also all money given and cement intended for the populations,went into building tunnels into Israel from which to attack.These were interconnected and originated under mosques schools hospitals houses,and IN structures in which rockets were stored.Hamas ,in spite of many warnings to civilians to move,stopped them from moving,under pain of death.They were used as human shields!Your kill ratio is not relevant in these circumstances.The blame lies firmly with Hamas.There is NO WAY that Israel can envisage an armed Hamas intent on its destruction!The West Bank settler question is another matter entirely,and may be arranged or not.Arafat and co were offered most of what they asked for several times ,but walked away.Perhaps anyone on the Arab side actually arranging anything with Israel would be assassinated,as Rabin was by an extreme right wing Israeli.Remember also that Egypt is involved in the blockade.I bet that as before any reparations from the rest of the world will to some extent not find its way to the intended cause!Also the rest of the arab world has neglected Gaza and Arabs in west Bank,using them as long term refugees as pawns in ant Israel propaganda.This is sad to me,but where else after wars do refugees stay for 48 years.
        Israel has managed to defend itself against 5 wars all instigated by their surrounding countries.Nevertheless,Egypt and Jordan now have peace treaties with Israel,Israel giving back land won in war,to Egypt,bigger than the whole of Israel.I only wish for peace and reckon that the population is not to blame mostly the politicians.When they love their kids more than they haste Jews perhaps there will be hope.

        Reply to Comment
        • Dave

          Thanks Mr. Hasbara!

          Reply to Comment
          • JohnWV

            Right on Dave!

            Reply to Comment
        • Matthias Einmal

          “I only wish for peace”. If that is the case, you should perhaps refrain from insulting and racist remarks like “When they love their kids more than they haste Jews perhaps there will be hope.” –

          Reply to Comment
        • yeah, right

          Geoff: “Firstly Gaza;as a first move to see what would happen,Israel COMPLETELY WITHDREW from the Gaza Strip in 2005,forcing their people out.”

          An analogy that highlights just how false that statement is.

          Imagine a prison. Barracks, walls, watchtowers, prisoners, guards, and… a prison warden.

          Now, imagine this. The prison warden gives an order to his guards: they are to stop patrolling the grounds and are to move up into the watchtower, and from there they are to shoot anyone who approaches the wall.

          Q: Has that ceased to be a prison?
          A: No, it is still a prison.

          Q: Have those prisoners ceased to be imprisoned?
          A: No, they are still prisoners.

          Q: So what *has* changed?
          A: The prison warden is now derelict in his legal duty of care, and his guards are acting illegally.

          The same is true of Gaza, where the IDF hasn’t WITHDRAWN at all.

          All the IDF has done is be REDEPLOYED to the border, there to go back into Gaza whenever it wants, for whatever reason Netanyahu cares to give.

          Reply to Comment
        • Eliza

          Geoff – Context is everything but so are facts. Israel did not leave the greenhouses intact upon the Israeli forced removal of the settlers.

          Approximately half of the greenhouses were destroyed by Israeli settlers before they left. There was some looting of the remaining greenhouses by Palestinians but the greenhouses were not destroyed but left structurally intact. The Jewish owners of the greenhouses were paid or compensated for the property they left behind.

          There was never any chance that the Palestinians could actually use the greenhouses to good effect due to Israel restrictions on the export of their product.

          Its one thing to sprout out these old myths of Palestinians deliberately destroying commercial infrastructure. I just hope that you don’t really believe it.

          It is true that Egypt, and increasing so under the cheery little military man, El Sisi, has been complicit in the siege of Gaza. It is also fair enough to state that no Arabic state has ever really stood by the Palestinians.

          Western governments have either been in lockstep with Israel or shied away from direct criticism or action (though this is starting to change) which is exactly why ordinary people in the West are supporting the BDS campaign.

          BTW, you do realise that all oppressive powers tend to claim that the oppressed do not really love their children enough. Its nonsense of course, but a standard line. Oh, if only they loved their children more, they would be just too busy to even notice their lack of rights let alone resist.

          As you agree that there is no solution in sight, I leave you to your sadness. Somehow, I think that you will find justification enough to inhibit your tears – after all, its all the fault of the Palestinians. What can you do with people who don’t love their children enough?

          Reply to Comment
      • CigarButNoNice

        “…eviction of all settlers,…”

        Good on ya, JohnWV! That really is the solution! Of course, as soon as it’s kept in mind that it’s the Arabs who are the settlers.

        All Arab settler-colonist land-grabbing invaders out of the JEWISH indigenous territory of the Land of Israel NOW! Justice demands it! No to Arab colonialism! No to Arab imperialist theft of land! No justice, no peace!

        Reply to Comment
        • Get real.. CigarBNN

          @CigarBNN, by your reasoning the likes of the northern Irish Protestant community should be thrown out of Ireland, the Indigenous Americans should be given back their lands, will we go to Australia and New Zealand ??? Seriously get real, just because a book that was written hundreds of years after the lord walked on earth by “others” that then gives you the right to the lands…..???

          Reply to Comment
          • Kolumn8

            When the Palestinians abandon the destruction of Israel and the exile of Jews as part of their political discourse you can come with complaints about Jews using the same rhetotic.

            Israel is our homeland and the only one we have. The Arabs and their friends can either accept this or they can continue to fight us for their dream of clearing this place of Jews. We are ready to continue fighting for our homeland indefinitely.

            Reply to Comment
          • Lo

            You keep saying this, but other than Russians fleeing the implosion of their country and elderly Europeans, there aren’t too many Jews making Aliyah from their established populations (NY and NJ both have successful, largely locally managed majority-Jewish communities). I’m an American, but our Jewish citizens appear to be as numerous and thriving as their Israeli counterparts.

            They also have the benefit of not being conscripted into a military that underpins a 19th-century “blood and soil” national identity, or being killed in defense of it. Additionally, far fewer American Jews are ever killed by people living in Arab-majority countries. Maybe it’s because the Arabs love America so much, or maybe it’s because the Arabs have better things to do than brood about Jews living thousands of miles away.

            Reply to Comment
          • Kolumn8

            Lo, I am old enough to remember the time when the same argument was made about the Jews of the glorious Soviet Union. About how they were perfectly happy in their socialist paradise and felt part of the struggle of the “Soviet” people for international socialism. That, btw, would have been the line of 972mag writers had the Soviet Union not collapsed. Then, poof, it did, and 20 years later there are a million Russian Jews that moved to Israel.

            I am old enough to remember when Sharon was urging French Jews to move to Israel the French establishment, including the Jews, were terribly upset. They felt comfortable living as Jews in France and felt themselves as part and parcel of the French people. Then, suddenly, the French are buying all the apartments in Tel Aviv and I am hearing a lot of French, mostly from young people that are coming by themselves or with their families. The older French Jews are established in France, have their careers, businesses and houses and they just buy property in Israel, you know, just in case.

            Your Jewish citizens are perfectly comfortable in the United States for now. Perhaps that will stay that way, who knows. The trend over the past 100 years has had Jews move in droves to Israel. Nonetheless, none of that makes any particular difference to the point at hand. Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people. If some of them choose to make their home elsewhere makes no particular difference. It will be here when they need to come home and there will be a strong military here to defend them.

            Reply to Comment
        • Brian

          Fails the shoe on other foot test yet again! You sound appallingly like Hitler ranting about the Sudetenland.

          Reply to Comment
      • JohnW

        JohnVW –

        Ho hum. Any more complaints?

        Reply to Comment
      • Kolumn8

        Israel must be expected to accept a Palestinian terror base which will be used to continue attacking us? So, we are expected to make our enemies stronger and to ‘compensate’ them for their repeated wars to destroy us. Good luck with that one.

        Reply to Comment
        • Lo

          You presuppose that the Palestinians would continue a campaign of armed resistance (which, let’s be clear, is about as threatening as performance art in the face of modern US munitions) once their immediate political objectives have been achieved.

          That is to say, to be allowed self-determination within accepted territory, the sine qua non of any modern nation. It warps the English language to suggest that Palestinian self-determination can coexist with continued Israeli preeminence in Gaza and the West Bank.

          If you say that any condition of Palestinian sovereignty is impossible without Israel directly limiting and circumscribing the powers of the “sovereign” Palestinian state, then congratulations. You agree with Minister Ya’alon and have laid the sentiment bare.

          Please understand then if third parties to the conflict think the Israeli government is not particularly serious about a negotiated peace. Further try to understand why outsiders might directly compare the capacity for violence of the Israeli state and the Palestinian sub-national entities and conclude that this is a Goliath and David narrative.

          Reply to Comment
          • Kolumn8

            I don’t presuppose anything. I am just paying attention to what the Palestinians themselves are saying. Their political narrative places little importance on actual statehood. For them it is an instrument, not the goal. The goal was, and remains, the reversal of 1947 and the elimination of Israel. This is true for both Hamas and for Fatah. It is also true for pretty much the entire spectrum of Palestinian politics. Even in a Palestinian state there would be no political legitimacy for any Palestinian government to prevent acts of terrorism against Israel. We are not afraid of the conventional might of a Palestinian state. American munitions will take care of that. We are concerned, justifiably, with the Palestinian state becoming a terror base for rockets and suicide bombers being sent into Tel Aviv. American munitions have not helped us prevent rockets being repeatedly shot at our cities from Gaza.

            Short of the Palestinians changing their narrative to one that accepts living in peace with Israel as the desired goal there is no solution, so, yes, Yaalon is correct. Were that to happen then at least the Palestinian state would have the internal legitimacy to act against those that attack Israel. Without that all odds are that it will turn into a base of attacks against us, and any Palestinian government that tries to stand in the way will quickly be overthrown.

            The Palestinian state is going to have to accept some limitations on their sovereignty or it will not come into existence. The idea that we are going to accept a hostile state that will arm itself to the teeth while turning into a terror base and brainwashing another generation of children into dreaming about our destruction is stupid. What can possibly motivate us to do something so eminently stupid that only ensures an increased threat to us in the future?

            Does that mean that a Palestinian state can not come into existence? No. It means that such a state would come about only after there has been a major change in the Palestinian narrative and after the future residents of such a state accept that the state does not exist to continue the conflict against us. Does that mean that the Palestinian state will lack sovereignty? No. It means that the state will accept legal limitations on its freedom of action. The example of Germany and Japan after WW2 are good ones. Both accepted limitations on their future actions and both went through a process of changing their perception of Americans, French, British, etc, and abandoned their territorial ambitions.. They both also accepted the continued presence of American troops on their territory, and still do so. Do the Germans and the Japanese exercise self-determination?

            If third parties to the conflict see Israel as not being serious about a negotiated peace it is because Israel is not desperate for it. It will not accept a negotiated peace unless that peace actually answers the security problems Israel faces, and will act, as Yaalon suggests, to manage the conflict, rather than taking unnecessary risks. Nor do I see any particular reason why it should bother me that Israel is the stronger party in the conflict.

            Reply to Comment
      • Richard

        JohnWV…crippling punitive reparations huh?…hmmm its interesting how you’re salivating so hard about PUNISHING those JEWS that you just jam words together that don’t make sense because you’re just so…ARRRGGHH EYE BALL BLOOD VESSEL ABOUT TO POP!!! Yeah you’re a wacko who makes Israel looks good thanks for commenting.

        Reply to Comment
    2. Danny

      Let me get this straight: Ya’alon thinks that the current Gaza situation – whereby Israel keeps 1.8 million people in a perpetual choke-hold and once every couple of years these people rise up and force Israel into a costly war – an acceptable permanent solution?

      This man is the very definition of an idiot, one who has never learned or forgotten anything. I find it hard to believe the Israeli defense establishment (at least the ones who have half a brain) share his views about what is an acceptable long-term solution.

      Reply to Comment
        • Danny

          50 days of fighting, 74 dead, hundreds more injured, thousands shell-shocked, thousands of businesses damaged, tens of thousands displaced from their homes – all on the Israeli side.

          Combine all this with Israel’s international standing being degraded to full-blown pariah status – do you really think this is sustainable?

          If so, then I wish you and Boogie (or whatever his name is) a happy life in that fantasy world you live in.

          Reply to Comment
          • Kolumn8

            Yep, it is sustainable the way that other situations with no better alternative are sustainable.

            Reply to Comment
    3. The Trespasser

      Given that Palestinian Arabs are not interested in peaceful coexistence with Jews, there is no solution to the conflict. Thus only people with severe cognitive problems would be looking for a solution to the conflict.

      Reply to Comment
      • Danny

        Palestinian Arabs are interested in peaceful co-existence with Israel provided Israel returns all Palestinian land it illegally occupies (West Bank and East Jerusalem). Since it is Israel that refuses to end its occupation of Palestinian land, it is Israel that is responsible for the lack of a solution to the conflict.

        Reply to Comment
        • Kolumn8

          Which Palestinians might that be? All polls I have seen has the Palestinians ovetwhelmingly insist that their long term goal is the destruction of Israel. Some are willing to accept their own state as a phase, but that doesn’t qualify as wanting to live in peace with Israel.

          Reply to Comment
    4. Brian

      They “chose to manufacture rockets instead of exporting strawberries.” Another one of those lying “facts.” Sorry Ya’alon, when they tried to export crops you wouldn’t let them. Gaza really is a prison, always was. Ya’alon has never seemed very bright to me.

      Reply to Comment
      • FRED

        They tried to export strawberries, Israel would not allow them to get past the border in Gaza. Why those greenouses you claim the Palestinians ruined were up and running and produced produce that Israel would not allow to cross the checkpoints.

        Reply to Comment
      • Kolumn8

        That might have something to do with Hamas trying to attack the crossings while simultaneously demanding to be allowed to use them to export strawberries. They can pick one or the other but they can not have both.

        Reply to Comment
    5. Bruce Gould

      Anyone ever talked to a real live Palestinian? Just curious.

      Reply to Comment
      • Lo

        Yes, I have. Every one of them has been normal. That is to say, they are like any other people and should be treated as individuals, not as faceless masses.

        Reply to Comment
        • Gustav

          “That is to say, they are like any other people …”

          Do you think of us Israelis as people too?

          Before you answer,

          1. Be aware that most of us are Zionists.

          2, Study up on what Zionism really is. Not what your cronies painted it to be.

          Reply to Comment
          • Lo

            What you believe politically or what philosophies you subscribe to do not diminish your humanity. I might disagree with you, but you’re still a thinking, feeling being deserving of respect and dignity.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ray

            Zionism is settler nationalism. Neo-Zionism (the Frankenstein’s Monster of Jabotinsky’s movement and religious nationalism created by Machiavellian politicians), on the other hand, is similar to European fascism, given the grand historical narrative and “mission” it assigns itself.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Ray
            You are embarrassing yourself. Your simplistic ignorance is appalling.

            But I know why you are doing it. You are doing it because you want to make us the “others”. You want to dehumanize us. That’s what everybody does to the others in all wars. And you obviously chose your side.

            Lo
            We are on opposite sides but at least I respect YOUR answer above.

            Reply to Comment
          • Brian

            At least you admit you dehumanize the other. With relish.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            No more so than they dehumanize us. Most of them that is. Some of them don’t but most do. I still remember the bloodied palms held up in triumph by one of the lynchers of our two reservists whom they lynched at the early stages of the second Intifada. Hundreds of them participated in that lynching and thousands of them celebrated it.

            I would say that happened because THEY dehumanized us, wouldn’t you say Brian?

            Reply to Comment
          • Brian

            It’s a cycle Netanyahu and Ya’alon and Bennet have no interest in breaking. Quite the contrary.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Yea but your Abbas does, huh? In your dreams unfortunately.

            He certainly showed how much he wanted peace (NOT), before Netanyahu even got elected. Olmert offered him very attractive peace terms in 2008 but Abbas ignored it for 6 months till Olmert got kicked out of office and Netanyahu got elected instead.

            What was Abbas’s excuse then?

            Reply to Comment
          • Brian

            Oh how dishonest. His security forces have worked day and night to stop the cycle of violence. Israel’s security subcontractor. And you know it. And you also know very well that the interaction with Olmert was far more complicated than you make it out to be, that Livni was telling him to wait, that Olmert was going down, etc. You never own up to reality. It’s always hasbara from you. You aren’t interested in the truth and you can’t handle it.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “Oh how dishonest.”

            You are the dishonest one. You always deliberately misexplain any Israeli peace initiatives and you always have an excuse why the Palestinian Arabs could not accept peace offers.

            “His security forces have worked day and night to stop the cycle of violence.”

            That’s it? That’s all you need? Because of that he is the one who would make peace with Israel?

            The facts suggest otherwise. Unlike Hamas, Abbas came to the conclusion that the Palestinian Arabs cannot force Israel to do what they want with violence alone. So he became a “good cop” while allowing Hamas to be the “bad cop”. He then embarked on a political offensive to try and force Israel to make MAXIMUM concessions for which he is not prepared to give ANYTHING in return. Not even recognition of Israel as the nation state of the Jewish people. Even though the creation of the JEWISH state was the cause of this 100 year old conflict as far as the Arabs are concerned.

            “Israel’s security subcontractor.”

            A typical ‘BRIAN’ exaggeration. Israel’s security contractor is the IDF, not Abbas. Violence by Palestinian Arabs has only brought misfortune on them because Israel retaliates. Abbas has realized that. That is why he slowed down, but hasn’t entirely stopped terrorism from the West Bank. Remember the three kidnapped Israeli teenagers who were murdered? Remember the Fogel family who were murdered in the dead of night by terrorists from the West Bank?

            “And you know it. And you can’t handle it.”

            You know what I say is the truth and you willfully shut your eyes to it and can’t handle it. Because you only have ONE political agenda which you must promote and trumpet whenever and wherever you can. Reality? You gloss over it …

            Reply to Comment
          • Brian

            More of the same.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Yes, more of the same Brian. You block your ears, you shut your eyes and you shout: LA, LA, LA … LA, LA, LA … LA, LA, LA …

            Because you don’t want to hear or see anything which contradicts your set notions. You are in denial, Brian. It’s kinda tragi amusing …

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            You are all over the place, Brian dear. The subject that we were discussing was who is responsible for why there isn’t peace yet.

            Breaking the silence is about Israelis who object to what happens under occupation. It has nothing to do with who rejected what peace deal.

            As for Mondoweiss? Please don’t belittle yourself by using them as a reference about Israel. They are a propaganda site. An obsessive anti Israel propaganda site.

            I’ll tell you what though. I will at least look at what they have to say if you would be willing to treat Rabbi Kahane’s and his deciphels views with seriousness. I bet you would not. So why do you expect me to believe anything about Israel which appears in Mondoweiss?

            Reply to Comment
          • Brian

            Ray, your linkages are astute though I would say that there are forms of possible liberal Zionism that do not have to be either settler nationalism or the Frankenstein monster birthed by Machiavelli’s descendants you so aptly describe. Even genuine Jabotinskian Zionism before it was joined one dark night to the bride of religious nationalism was more respectful of “the other” than today’s absolutely degenerate Zionism. We are witnessing degenerate, decadent forms of Zionism today.

            Reply to Comment
    6. Tomer

      Alyon has the right idea in the short term.

      But in the long-term, the Arab settlers need to be expelled back to Jordan & Egypt (where they belong).

      Reply to Comment
    7. Sunil puri

      It’s mainly USA, UK, Canada and Australia that mostly support the racist apartheid regime in Israel. Notice the connection? All white settler colonialists who destroyed the indigenous populations! The rest of the world (mainly) recognises Israel for what it is. Their stranglehold on Palestine won’t last forever as sentiment , even in the former colonialists counties is changing. Witness the UK Parliament recent statement on recognition of Paelstine ( over 57,000 uk citizens wrote to their MP to demand theiy support the motion). Witness Sodastream financial crash due to BDS. Israeli propaganda is starting to fail, despite widespread uncritical repeating from the western mass media. Israel is in for a very hard time with morons like this in control. Peace to all, love to al,l free Palestine from colonial aggressors and the god squad. X 😉

      Reply to Comment
      • JohnW

        Racist apartheid Israel, Sunil? You mean like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia? And other Muslim countries?

        Reply to Comment
        • Brian

          Nope. They don’t pretend not even a little bit to be democracies with “values shared” with America. Israel pretends big time and all the time, and demands the rights and privileges that go with that. Israel’s hypocrisy index is off the charts. It’s not anti-semitism, it’s anti-hypocrisyism that fuels the sense abroad in the West that something is deeply wrong here.

          Reply to Comment
          • Brian

            Nor are Saudi Arabia and Pakistan belligerently occupying their neighbors in violation of international law.

            Reply to Comment
    8. JohnW

      “They don’t pretend not even a little bit to be democracies with “values”

      Yes I get it. So that’s all it takes huh? Not to claim that a country is democratic and then someone like Sunil Puri would have no right to accuse them of apartheid and racism?

      By the way, Pakistan does pretend to be democratic.

      As for Israel, I do understand your pathological need to vilify my country. I really do, you just can’t help yourself. Hatred is a mental illness. But the facts don’t back you up.

      If they would, the Arab citizens of Israel would have loved Liberman’s idea that they should become part of the new Palestinian state while keeping all their lands and assets. But instead they reacted to that idea with horror. Perhaps you could explain why they are so reluctant to give up their Israeli citizenship if they are subject to racism and apartheid?

      Reply to Comment
      • Gustav

        Careful John

        Brian’s alter ego will make an appearance here soon. He already crawled out from under his rock in the other thread.

        Don’t upset Brian too much because he will conjur up his Mr Hyde, oops, I mean MuslimJew (oy what a name) who will foam at the mouth, spit his spittle at you and will rant and rave about Hasbarah monkeys.

        It always happens when Brian loses an argument. You will see John, he will make you feel sorry … LOL.

        Reply to Comment
        • Brian

          Gustav this is just weird. I’ve asked you before to stop stalking me.

          Reply to Comment
      • Brian

        Oh John, one can criticize Israel without hating it. As fond as you are of the lazy idea that critics just must be operating from a base of antisemitic hatred it just isn’t true. But it is a convenient dodge. A true perennial. Lovely your holding up Pakistan as your role model. It tells me what standards you are comfortable with.

        Reply to Comment
        • JohnW

          Well Brian, if you call Israel an apartheid state, then you hate Israel.

          Firstly, because any decent person SHOULD hate apartheid. And you are a decent person, aren’t you?

          Then again, the charge that Israel is an apartheid state is an obvious libel as I demonstrated to you above. So you obviously hate us. Otherwise you would not make that false accusation.

          Reply to Comment
          • Brian

            No, John, it’s not black and white, yes or no. There are soft and hard forms of apartheid and by some reasonable and widely accepted definitions Israel increasingly meets that definition, in the occupied territories clearly and then the debate is to what degree Israel is on a March to apartheid even inside the 67 lines. It’s not black and white, either/or. One technique the Right employs is to cast it as a technical either/or question and then dwell misleadingly on technicalities.

            Reply to Comment
          • JohnW

            Nice Brian, you want to have your cake and it it too. But have it your way.

            If Israel is apartheid-like, then how come most Arab citizens of Israel are shocked to their core with Liberman’s proposal to get them to become part of the new Palestinian state while keeping all their lands and assets? Why are they against the idea of giving up their Israeli citizenship?

            Reply to Comment
          • Brian

            WHAT new Palestiniam state? And besides that, why would they go along with reducing their proportionate numbers inside Israel so that the Jewish Israelis can dominate and marginalize all the more the remaining Arab Israelis? So Israel can move even more towards an ethnotheocracy? It’s a disguised form of ethnic cleansing you are idly bandying about as a rhetorical device.

            Reply to Comment
          • JohnW

            “WHAT new Palestiniam state”

            The one you never stop agitating for. You don’t want one? Liberman conceded that it would happen.

            “And besides that, why would they go along with reducing their proportionate numbers inside Israel so that the Jewish Israelis can dominate and marginalize all the more the remaining Arab Israelis?

            Ok, so let me get this clear. They are mistreated by Israel but they don’t want to break away from it because the number of Arab Israelis in Israel would be reduced? That need not be the case. All the Arabs could become part of the new Palestinian state and give up their Israeli citizenship. But they don’t want to do that. So Israel isn’t all that bad to them, is it?

            “So Israel can move even more towards an ethnotheocracy? It’s a disguised form of ethnic cleansing you are idly bandying about as a rhetorical device.”

            That’s a bit extreme isn’t it? The Arabs would keep all their lands and assets. They would physically stay where they are. All they would have to do is to give up their Israeli citizenship and take up the citizenship of the new Palestinian state which you people have been agitating for. Where is the ethnic cleansing there, Brian? If they are so mistreated by us, they should be happy to no longer be part of us and enjoy their new democratic state instead.

            Reply to Comment
          • Brian

            Now that would be an interesting offer. Offer every Israeli Arab the opportunity to stay put but inside redrawn lines for a Palestinian state that contiguously includes every Israeli Arab where he or she now resides. So half of Haifa/Jaffa? Now you’re talking. As for the other side of the green line, you think the occupation is not apartheid-like? I think it is. Therefore there are lessons to be learned in making the comparison.

            Reply to Comment
          • JohnW

            “Now that would be an interesting offer. Offer every Israeli Arab the opportunity to stay put but inside redrawn lines for a Palestinian state that contiguously includes every Israeli Arab where he or she now resides. So half of Haifa/Jaffa? Now you’re talking.”

            Nice try. That was not the offer. The offer would be for the Arabs of Gallilee to secede from Israel together with their lands and assets and to become part of the new “democracy” of Palestine. That would be a significant number of the Israeli Arab population. The rest could remain where they are as citizens of Israel or if they don’t want to, then they could move and settle in the new Palestinian state. I am sure Liberman would even offer them adequate compensation for their lands and assets. There would be no compulsion for them to do it. It would be their choice. But we already know what their choice would be. Quite a lot of surveys show that they prefer Israeli citizenship. And who can blame them? They are on a good wicket here.

            “As for the other side of the green line, you think the occupation is not apartheid-like? I think it is. Therefore there are lessons to be learned in making the comparison.”

            Apartheid does not even come into it. Don’t you people claim that the West Bank and even Gaza are under hostile occupation? Yes, hostile is appropriate. The Arabs are hostile to us and consequently we are hostile to them. Hostility begets hostility. But once they agree to sign a peace deal, hopefully the hostility will end. They will get what they want and we will get what we want. In the meanwhile, stone throwings and terrorism results in teargas, curefews, arrests and security barriers. Nobody in our place acts differently.

            Reply to Comment
    9. Click here to load previous comments
© 2010 - 2017 +972 Magazine
Follow Us
Credits

+972 is an independent, blog-based web magazine. It was launched in August 2010, resulting from a merger of a number of popular English-language blogs dealing with life and politics in Israel and Palestine.

Website powered by RSVP

Illustrations: Eran Mendel