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Anti-normalization and the Israeli Left - a Facebook debate

Could there be a joint political space for radical Jewish leftists and activists in the Palestinian diaspora when anti-normalization is on the rise? Should there be one?

Anti-normalization is becoming one of the hottest topics in progressive Israeli and Palestinian circles (ironically, it is not a problem for those elements of society who never been in touch with each other or oppose any form of common existence). Almost any event or activity – even ones which are done in resistance to the occupation – lead to debates on the merit and the legitimacy of joint actions. Here is one example.

The letter below was posted on Facebook by “The Jordanian Popular Boycott Movement,” following the intention of some Israelis – Jews and Palestinians – to travel to a Mashrou’ Leila concert in Amman, Jordan. The debate which followed went far beyond this particular event. The position taken by three of the four Palestinians is rather extreme (I have previously heard a much more nuanced case for anti-normalization), but this is not the first time I witness this dynamic, so I decided to post it here.

Here is the original anti-normalization letter – click on the image to view it in full size.


Here is the debate – I deleted some of the comments in the interest of clarity and length. The post itself, and all the comments, are public.

Noa: (Israeli) Cau I ask a question?

how come Zionists are “all Israeli nationality holders that are non-Arabs”, but then you say you reject all Zionists, irrelevant of their race and religious orientation”?

I was born Jewish in Israel. I have fought all my life along with my rifaq, the Palestinians of 48′, and other anti Zionist Jews as myself, against Zionism inside Israel.

I refused to serve in the Israeli occupation army and my friends sat in jail 2 years for that refusal. I’m involved with bi-National anti Zionist activism for years, and I can tell you more if you’re interesting. you can also ask Palestinian activists from here, they can tell you, I’m sure.

I’m also sure you can guess how the Israeli mainstream treats Jewish anti-Zionists as myself.

But then you call me a Zionist, just for being a non-Arab Israeli – well, these identities are ones I was born with. I chose to be an anti Zionist, and your decision to ignore this choice and see me as a Zionist just for my Jewish family goes against all the other things you say.

Your attempts to set the Palestinians of 48′ apart from their Jewish anti-Zionist allies hurts the possibility of struggle for both sides, and pushes us anti Zionist Jews back to our original community, and away from the connections with the activists who can teach us about the Palestinian reality and fight with us against the Israeli apartheid.

So actually you want me to be Zionist?

Of you just don’t care, I was born a Jew and that’s all I can ever be?

Palestinian from Jordan ALL CITIZENS OF THE ILLEGAL STATES OF “ISRAEL” ARE A PART OF THE ZIONIST COLONIAL PROJECT, EXCEPT THE ORIGINAL PEOPLE OF PALESTINE, AND SO, ALL THOSE WHO SERVE THE ZIONIST PROJECT ARE ZIONISTS FOR US, REGARDLESS OF THEIR RACE, RELIGIOUS BELIEVES OR DISBELIEVES OR POLITICAL VIEWS, FOR DISAMBIGUATION, ANY NON-ISRAELI JEW IS NOT A ZIONIST, ANY PALESTINIAN JEW IS NOT ZIONIST, AS LONG AS THEY ARE NOT SERVE THE ZIONIST COLONIAL PROJECT BY OTHER MEANS THAN CITIZENSHIP

Noa: How do I serve the Zionist project? I was among the organizers of the refusal movement, of Jewish Israelis who refuse to serve the Israeli army, my male friends sat years in jail because they refused to serve. I was born in Israel and so were my parents. My grand parents were refugees from three different countries – where is that you want to send me? Poland, Romania or Hungary? I have no other citizenship, and I have fought against the Zionist regime more than most of your friends.

So if you still judge me just on the background of my birth, what does it make you?

Palestinian from Jordan YOU CAN ASK FOR YOUR ORIGINAL CITIZENSHIP AS WE SHOULD DEMAND FOR OURS

Noa wanna split me into 3 different pieces?

I belong here, and not going anywhere else.

I believe you need to start to differentiate between Jewish and Zionist. The struggle against Zionism is the struggle to live together in an open and equal democratic state of Palestinians and Jews together, and not the struggle to return back to the past and send all the Jews away in a second Nakba. Otherwise you’re no better than the Zionists.

Zeina (Palestinian): Noa, you keep throwing religion into this, while the letter is clearly not making any distinctions on the basis of religion. Rather, it is the Zionist movement that is claiming Palestine as a land for Jews. There were Palestinian Jews coexisting in Palestine with Christians and Muslims long before 1948, for us, it is not about religion. The issue is very simple, any person who came from anywhere else in the world to live in Palestine under the so called name of “Israel” is serving the Zionist project. I don’t think I need to remind you that every one of you is living in the place of a Palestinian that was either martyred or expelled. For us, it is Palestine, always has been and always will be. A true anti-Zionist would pick and up and leave the land to its native inhabitants: Muslims, Christians, Jews, or atheists; doesn’t really matter as long as they are Palestinian.

Noa: Jaffa is my only homeland, dear Zeina.

Colonialism is different in different contexts, and unlike the French in Algeria, in this context there’s no metropolin to return to. The Jews were thrown here because of hirtorical events unconnected to Palestine, but after 3 generations, we’ve mixed so much, cut all our roots in our previous countries and grown roots in here. That’s the reality of our generation, and if you stll think 6 million people need to be uprooted again, and no joined future is possible, well – you sound just like the Zionists to me.

Lihi (Israeli): so do you suggest i go back to iraq? how, exactly?

Lihi: and i have one more question – are you objecting the after party or the concept of me as a jew whos origins are not palestinians (morroco & iraq) to come to the concert?

Diaa (Journalist, AP): Reporters question: This is a letter, but will you try enforce this in any way? Will there be demonstrations before or after the Mashrou Leila party? Will you demonstrate at the border where Israelis enter Jordan every day, or just at the mashrou leila party? Will you take responsibility for any Israeli put in danger by your actions? Please do let me know. You can always write to me at my FB address

Ruba (Palestinian, originally from Gaza): well Noa, this Zionist state have gathered between Colonialism, occupation and apartheid, and if you look at your argument or discussion you will find that you defends the Zionist state more than defending all Palestinian rights (Inside Palestine or exile). for me i can’t trust a person who say that I did this and that and I support you and all solidarity with you , but in the other hand he/she saying that the land that my ancestors stole is my own land. don’t you ever think you away of your ancestors guilt.

And don’t you ever forget that we can make a peace, negotiation or open dialogue between us before we became at the same level of scale, there is a difference between occupied and occupation, and if you believe in justice do like many of pre “Israeli” did, drop your Zionist nationality….. get a way of this page and don’t trying to bleach your image here, no space for zionest here.

Noa: As I said, I have no Zionist identity, and I do not defend Zionism.

I believe most of the Palestinian political streams today say like me- that tearing down Zionism and deport all the Jews are not the same thing. As Arafat once said – you do not answer a crime by doing another crime.

And I do take my ancestors guilt on me, otherwise I’d live happily in my privileged state and not fight for the Palestinian rights.
But no, that doesn’t mean I’ll leave, cause I have no other home.

If you accept these basic sayings – then you and me have a joined struggle to do against Israeli Colonialism, occupation and apartheid.

If your struggle is aimed at uprooting me – well, that’s too bad. you’re too much like the mainstream in my society, the one that calls me a traitor.

Roi (Israeli): All my grandparents immigrated to Palestine from Poland, Ukraine and Belarus in the 30s, before the war, with legal certificates from the British mandate. My mother still remembers how as a little child she was sent to tell Palestinians to get out of the area they settled (she thinks they may have been the original inhabitants, but this was more than 10 years after the land was settled by Jews; I did not check the history of this specific site, so I don’t know if these specific lands were inhabited before my grandparents settled there; anyway, the point is that in one way or another, my grandparents were involved in displacing Palestinians in the 30s and 40s; later on, members of my family fought in wars that further displaced Palestinians, and served the Israeli “security” industry in all sorts of ways). According to the rules of my grandparents’ countries of origin I do not have access to their passports.

If I understand correctly, it’s the post-48 Jewish immigrants that you consider Zionists. So does this story make me a Zionist or not? does it matter for this question what I think and do about the law of Jewish return, the right of Palestinian return, apartheid, discrimination and ongoing displacement within 48 and 67 Palestine? Or does it only matter whether my grandparents immigrated before or after 1948?

Is my displacement the best way to correct the wrong done to Palestinians? Or is there room for a vision of just restoration and return that will allow for an equitable and peaceful existence of all sorts of people between the river and the sea?
As a Jew with Israeli citizenship, should I even participate in this discussion, or should I just listen, learn and do as I’m told (as I sometimes do in contexts where I am in a privileged position, and am not invited to express my thoughts)?

Maroun (Palestinian) [Google Translate – original in Arabic] Mesh Ader understand Shaw [what] problem exactly … BAS sheft comrades “sort” and “barrier” Uncle betnaksho … Means the solution proposed by alodmin is illogical, irrational, racist and extremist

Not recognized by the Zionist entity … I’m not bshionia, I am an Arab proudly … But I’m with peace between Arabs and Jews in the region. Proof of the existence of Jews in this country comes from the Torah, the Gospel and the Koran and many other scientific historical books … We are Arabs and Jews will keep fighting for a better Middle East, free of war, racism and extremism. Ana mesh with Zionism … But I’m with coexistence between Arabs and Jews in this country. I’m with two States (without the Zionist character) one of the other side, safely and lovingly aysheen and dignity:)

We in the Democratic front for peace and equality, we believe strong and realistic solution.

[posting a video on Arab-Jewish cooperation within Hadash party]

Arie (Israeli): Your attitude is the greatest dream and gift of Zionism. If you present to me as a Jew only 2 options, continue Zionism or Death (because I have no where to go and no country will take me). If only these 2 options exist than I guess I should choose Zionism, and that is sad.

Ruba: It’s obvious this page not for any of you, and its more obvious we don’t want to deal with any one of you at any level. stop telling us your stories you are not the case owners, we are the case owner . so stop telling us your stories to gain our sympathize. And how you asking for equality, I will come to your place and steal your house and then when we rise the case at the court I will ask them to divide your house for two halves between you and me, is this equal for you.

Zeina: The issue right now is having “normal” relationships with so called Israel, that a non-Palestinian Israeli can simply enter Jordan to attend a party! The peace treaty between Jordan and Israel does not represent me just like it does not represent the majority of Jordanian people, make no mistake. In conclusion, DO NOT come to Jordan.

UPDATE: I gathered my thoughts regarding this exchange and posted some of them here

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    COMMENTS

    1. Yoni Ra

      Noa, as Jew you will never be accepted. This is why I don’t understand your quest for a binational state. Will the hatred and mistrust just disappear after that?

      Reply to Comment
    2. Sinjim

      It would be great if you could post a link to the conversation, if possible.

      It’s very easy to understand the anger that these Palestinians have against Israeli Jews. For most Palestinians, especially the ones who’ve never been able to enter their homeland, a Zionist is a Jew living in Palestine. Period. It is not a set of political beliefs, but rather where one lives. It doesn’t matter that one rejects Zionism because that rejection doesn’t change the fact that they are still living on stolen Palestinian land. Even though I disagree, can I blame these Palestinians for having such a rigid notion of what it means to be Zionist? Can I blame them for lashing out in all their grief and anger and oppression at these Israeli Jews, perhaps the only time they’ve ever interacted with the usurpers of their homeland? Absolutely not!

      It’s important to point out that the views expressed by the Palestinians in that thread are not the same as principles of BDS. BDS argues that institutions, organizations, and companies – and those individuals running/benefiting from them – involved in the occupation and dispossession of Palestinians be subject to boycott. The standard of a blanket boycott against all Israeli Jews is unfair and but more importantly makes the anti-normalization struggle needlessly more difficult.

      If we oppose Zionism, it is because Zionism is a system of racial classification and stratification and a system of dispossession and occupation. Palestinians can do better than to impose those same values on their oppressors. As long as they are opposed to Zionism, Israelis shouldn’t be rejected by Palestinians. I hope that the people who argued for this blanket boycott educate themselves and look for opportunities to achieve equality and rights for Palestinians with any and all allies. It’s really the best and easiest way to get our goals.

      Reply to Comment
      • @Sinjin I felt that I wanted to respect the privacy of those who took part in the conversation. I know it was public, but I haven’t figured out the Facebook ethics yet. Let me sleep on it – i might add the link tomorrow.

        Reply to Comment
        • Sinjim

          I hadn’t taken that into consideration. I understand.

          Reply to Comment
        • Ron Newman

          If something has been posted to a public page on Facebook, it’s totally public. Please link to it.

          Reply to Comment
      • Mareli

        The Jordanians are being just as hateful toward Jews who were born in Israel/Palestine as the rightist Israeli Jews are toward Arabs. As a US citizen who lives with all different races and religions I think the fight in Palestine/Israel is unnecessary.

        Reply to Comment
        • Sinjim

          No, they’re not. Unlike Israeli Zionists, they aren’t demolishing their homes and driving anyone off their land, raiding their rooms in the middle of the night, attacking them with firebombs, beating them up in the streets, and enforcing a blockade against them.

          They need to be more open-minded but their words are in no way equivalent to the actions of Israeli Zionists.

          Reply to Comment
      • AYLA

        @Sinjim–just thanks for your comment. I was hoping to hear from you here, since you’re the person I’ve debated with most on this topic (on 972). Thoughtful comment, thanks.

        Reply to Comment
      • Aaron the Fascist Troll

        I think it’s easy to understand most ethnic hatred, at least at the level you’re talking about. Of course you’re sympathizing with hateful bigots, not just understanding them.

        I’m sure you’re charitable to all, though. For instance, it’s easy to understand (and sympathize with) Jews who hate all Arabs, who call them subhuman. After all, many of those Jews had friends or family members who were killed or maimed by Arabs, so it’s quite understandable they’d feel that way. I mean, it would be asking a bit much of those people to treat Arabs as human beings and to think twice about what they’re saying.

        Maybe not all Jews who hate you had such experiences, but I’m sure you’re willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

        Reply to Comment
    3. Yochanan

      Most of this seems to rooted in miscommunication, unfortunately the Palestinians involved don’t have the best English, and the Israelis haven’t properly understood them. The first Palestinian states that Jews in Palestine are not necessarily Zionists, so long as they don’t ‘serve the colonial project by means other than citizenship’. Noa then misreads this as accusing him/her of serving the colonial project. The Palestinian then presumes Noa is a relatively recent immigrant and figures s/he should return to her native land.
      .
      As far as I’m aware, anti-normalisation only requires that Palestinians do not deal with Israelis except under clear circumstances – that both sides recognise the power disparity, that the Israeli side is explicitly committed to ending the Occupation, and the purpose of the cooperation is framed in these terms. Were Netanyahu to become anti-Zionist overnight, cooperation with him would be fine, as I see it.
      .
      And finally, didn’t Mashrou3 Leila pull out of the Chili Peppers support slot anyway? So what’s the problem?

      Reply to Comment
      • Kolumn9

        You are reaching there.. The easier explanation from both the letter and the conversation is that most of the Palestinian participants just don’t differentiate between Israeli Jews and Zionists.

        Reply to Comment
      • Aaron the Fascist Troll

        First: “Presuming” is not “miscommunication.”

        Second: Given that many anti-Zionists invite *all* Israeli Jews to go back to where they came from – always back to European countries, by the way, never back to Middle Eastern countries – such an invitation is actually typical a certain discourse at the clearest level of communication.

        Reply to Comment
    4. This letter is ethnic nationalism in a nutshell – political ideology conflated with ethnicity, and ethnic heritage being used as criteria for belonging. To paraphrase Audre Lorde, there’s nothing quite so sad or so dangerous as picking up the master’s toxic tools to try and dismantle the master’s house.

      Reply to Comment
      • AYLA

        Audre Lourde! I hope you’ve read “Coal” and “Power”. thanks as always, @Vicky

        Reply to Comment
        • Lourde was a librarian. The power of words. Something to remember, Vicky and Ayla.

          Reply to Comment
      • mischi

        @vicky – as always, incisive and thoughtful. Thanks for your comments.

        Reply to Comment
    5. AYLA

      Noam–I just want to thank you for posting this. I’ve been involved in too many anti, anti-norm (my position, more or less) dialogues here to get into another one, but this is an important discussion to air, and although it represents some extreme views, they’re becoming more and more common, it seems. We have to be very strong to fight these instincts to separate ourselves from others. All of us. Is there unique cultural identity and are our stories powerful in us? Absolutely, hallelujah. But there is another kind of separation at work, and it is of course backfiring against the very thing people want.

      @Yoni–no, the mistrust and in some cases hatred wouldn’t just disappear, nor would the bi-national state happen over night. There is no way to directly compare these two situations and I am not doing so, but in terms of what you’re asking, there was once slavery in the U.S. People can heal, over time, and although it saddens me to hear anyone shut down to other people’s stories, or to their own role in things (even when one side has more to account for, there is always plenty to account for in yourself), I understand Palestinians aren’t anywhere near being there yet, just as I understood when I talked to an Israeli mother on another thread whose daughter died in a suicide bombing who wasn’t ready to work together with Palestinians. Everyone is where they are, understandably. But in terms of the bigger vision, we’ve all lost our way. We’ve lost our sense of being a part of something bigger, in which we are all interconnected.

      @Noa–thank you for your voice.

      Reply to Comment
    6. Aaron

      Short summary: “All Jews suck, but we won’t say it out loud.”

      These idiots should be awarded gold medals for the mental gymnastics they’re forcing their minds to go through.

      Reply to Comment
    7. Yariv Mohar

      I wrote there:
      “Why “land” is the issue at stake? Why not sovereignty or even “governance” that we argue about?
      isn’t it a better debate than this real-estate fight [bear in mind that Palestine always as been multi-national land, belong to no nation exclusively].
      Then we can talk about democracy VS. apartheid – as currently in the west bank “

      Reply to Comment
      • God

        Its sad to see Israelis supporting the “palestinians” when clearly the other side hates them.
        I hope this is a wake up call to all those useful idiots

        Reply to Comment
        • jerry

          Here is a quote from the “text” by an entity “Jordanian Popular Boycott Movement” located in the so-called “Kingdom of Jordan”: “this is and will always be an unfortunate temporary status”. T-e-m-p-o-r-a-r-y status that will a-l-w-a-y-s be – I couldn’t put it better even if I got completely drunk.

          Reply to Comment
    8. Ben

      Regardless of who did what to whom and first and last and whatever, it seems like these Israelis want to be accepted in a place where they will never be accepted. Did any of you see that Hamas invited all the Jews to go ‘home’ to the Arabs states? Yeah, great idea, let Jews become persecuted in a place they fled/left because they were persecuted. Or at least were 2nd class citizens. Clearly the Arabs need to accept Israel is here to stay. Down with the kibush, but there is an occupation in the Arab mind as well.

      Reply to Comment
    9. Richard Witty

      Those non-solidarity Jews and others that read the quoted Palestinian positions have a basis of concluding that the holocaust continues, that the intention of “the Palestinians” is to chase Jews around the world.

      “Leave”.

      No pretense of equality before the law seemingly expressed, no pretense of affording self-governance to the Jewish majority.

      It STOPS progress in all respects.

      Reply to Comment
      • Yochanan

        Nonsense, even though the position of ‘all colonists must leave’ is NOT demanded by the anti-normalisation movement or any solidarity movement I know of, and is completely wrong-headed, but it does not equate to ‘chasing the Jews all around the world’.

        When the pieds-noir left Algeria at the end of the colonial experiment, we did not assume that this was part of an Algerian plan to chase the French all over the world. Same when the slaves successfully established their republic in Haiti. Palestinians, including the minority that express views such as ‘all colonists should leave’, are simply looking for an end to colonialism in their region, and a state of their own.

        Reply to Comment
        • Richard Witty

          Not nonsense in the slightest.

          “Leave” is a strictly local sentiment, not genocidal.

          But, the theme of “you are not welcome here” and then “not here either” and then “not here either” is also a theme of the continuing holocaust.

          My in-laws experienced harrassment in Hungary in the 30’s. The argument presented was “you are not indigenous/native” (you’ve only been here 8 generations).

          To the slave camps, and in the mad rush in 1945 to the death camps. Then “liberation” to Russian rule and harrassment back in their old villages to the same tune.

          Then to Israel to face harrassment and wars, then to England and the US (in my case), also to face just prejudice and insult (at least not war), until the mid-sixties.

          Now again and again, revived and amplified now with BDS.

          Its NOT a democratic single state that is being argued for in the anti-normalization efforts.

          Its “leave”.

          Reply to Comment
    10. Kolumn9

      I am sad that one day Noa will realize that she is not generally dealing with the ANC position, but with that of the FLN. Only she has no France to go back to, so the victory of her struggle would leave her in a bit of a pickle.
      .

      I do have a means to resolve her dilemma though… Learn Arabic, speak the shahada in front of her rifaq and then join an Arab dating site. That way she can cast off that terrible moral stain of being a Jew that carries all the guilt of her ancestors. Ah, finally, the path to peace.

      Reply to Comment
    11. Aaron the Fascist Troll

      Noam, thanks for publishing this, it was very interesting. It totally reminded me of all the intramural squabbling I remember from the days when I used to identify with the left, in America. The structure is exactly the same, only with different categories.

      If “the personal is political,” then this is what you get.

      Reply to Comment
    12. Siren

      There is no place for dialogue with Palestinians. It took me 10 intense years of being involved in it to conclude this, irrespective of how much I loved my Palestinian friends and how much they loved me. Nobody is going anywhere and they aren’t about to give up the victim card anymore than they’re prepared to consider us as struggling with our identity.

      Even Benny Morris has got to the same conclusion… Now you +972 peeps need to wise up and face the depressing reality, and see what your experiences in co-existence etc can bring to the table of facing our grim future.

      Reply to Comment
    13. Yochanan

      Name me one major Palestinian, or solidarity, movement that calls for the expulsion of Jews, even in the event of a one state settlement. Much as far-right elements within Israel would love to hear ‘push them into the sea’ coming from the Palestinians, that simply isn’t what anyone is demanding.

      Reply to Comment
    14. Mr Natural

      I have never heard a Palestinian group condemn the words of Helen Thomas or others of similar ilk. Would that not be helpful if what you say is true?

      Reply to Comment
    15. Gil Franco

      ==this is and will always be an unfortunate temporary situation==

      They got that right.

      Reply to Comment
    16. Farouk

      This is to anti-Zionist Jews in Palestine (I am anti-normalization and dialogue with Zionists) who are disturbed by the views in that conversation. Even if you reject Zionism it does not change that you are in a position of massive power.

      You are living on lands and homes stolen by force from Palestinians who were expelled from their homeland and since then have lived a life of non-stop misery and humiliation. You are benefiting from the crimes of Zionism, even if you had little choice in that.

      Palestinians expelled since 1948 are in the total opposite position, their homeland has been taken from them and they mostly have lived in refugee camps with no citizenship, no rights, and are oppressed by other Arab states/gangs who don’t want them there.

      Palestinians have been massacred by Lebanese factions in the 1970s and 80s (supported by Israel and Syrian regime), I live in Lebanon and know Palestinians in the refugee camps and how they’ve been abused by all Lebanese factions alongside Zionist invasions and massacres.

      Palestinians were also expelled and massacred by Jordan in 1970 (again supported by Israel). They were expelled from from Kuwait in 1991 because Arafat supported Saddam, from Libya in 1993 because Arafat signed Oslo. They were massacred by Iranian regime allies in Iraq War and are now being killed by both sides in the Syrian War. This is just a picture of what being Palestinian is like, you have no safety or security because of being expelled from your homeland, you always being treated horribly and can be expelled again or killed at any time. No one supports you. No one protects you. Simply because they are Palestinian.

      Jews in Palestine cannot understand this and will never experience anything like it. Open your mind and see it from their side. They have suffered their entire lives because of the stealing of their homeland which you are living on yet they will be killed if they try to return. How can you demand that when Palestinians come into contact with you that they be nice and want to give you flowers when you are a citizen of the terrorist state that destroys their lives every day, that you live in their homeland they can’t return to even for a visit and you are benefitters from their suffering? Would you not feel rage if you were in their position? They are only human.

      You are in the position of illegimate power and privelege, you have a responsible to accept that and to work to destroy that privelege you have. Palestinians do not owe you anything. You do not have the right to use some of them being angry at you as excuse to join with Zionists.

      I believe that the existence of Israel is the cause of the war and hatred and after the state of Israel is put to an end (peacefully or not) that the hatred will reduce, and it is possible for the Jews, Muslims and Christians in Palestine to live together in a democratic state and I am opposed to expelling anybody as it is not justice.

      Reply to Comment
      • Richard Witty

        “See it from their side”, a wonderful point, an important sentiment.

        The theme of “leave” though, is not that.

        There are many that know that those in other communities share more than they differ. (Human needs, sentiment of caring for their families, community, desire to participate in self-governance).

        They can get to “live and let live”. Tangible issues can almost always be worked out, if intended.

        Reply to Comment
    17. Susan

      I wonder if Zionists who do not live in Israel or are not Israeli citizens would be welcome in Jordan. It seems to me that they don’t want Jews in Jordan.

      Reply to Comment
      • sh

        Susan, despite the anger displayed on the page above, oddly enough Israeli Jews are not made to feel unwelcome when they go to Jordan.

        Farouk I appreciate your comment.
        The irony of the situation is that older Israeli Jews *have* been through the experiences you describe and they and their families understand all too well, but that’s our problem to sort out, not yours.

        Reply to Comment
        • sh

          Susan, seems the shoe is on the other foot and that it is we who are unwelcoming to the Jordanians, not vice versa. This was the headline in today’s print version of the Jerusalem Post.
          Jordanians face more red tape than red carpets
          http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=284614

          Reply to Comment
      • mia

        its sooo tempting to make it an antisemitism thing, isn t it? you re playing the easy card.

        Reply to Comment
    18. Ali Saleh Shamkhani

      I dont see what is so hard to understand here. You stole the land, and you must leave, even if you were born here. There is a lot of land in Poland, Ukrane, Germany, etc. We Iranians feel the same way. Once you leave, there will be no risk of nuclear war

      Reply to Comment
      • Prometheus

        Why won’t you leave all lands you, Iranians, have stolen from the other people, namely Azeris, Kurds and others?

        Reply to Comment
    19. XYZ

      Perhaps you will recall the story of a couple of Libyan Jews who fled to Italy during the time of Qaddafi’s rule and who decided to come back to Libya after he was ousted. They were told in no uncertain terms to get the heck out of Libya. Has nothing to do with Zionisn, has everything to do with being Jews.

      http://www.jpost.com/JewishWorld/JewishFeatures/Article.aspx?id=279491

      Reply to Comment
    20. AYLA

      SH–thank you. I had signed back on because I’d felt that in my attempt not to get into a predictable anti-anti-norm / anti-norm debate (and I do see the merits in the movement; I just find that it’s often counter productive when it becomes about details vs. the big picture of inequity)–I’d underreacted to the hatred, here. but the most important point is yours: we can’t respond to the least common denominator. We can’t bring the vibration down to its level. and the truth is, in actual real life interactions, people appreciate each other. It’s important that this dialogue was aired because many people in the pro-israel camp see only this; this is what’s circulated to make them believe that Israel is in a constant state of defense against hatred. So if we ignore these voices, we’re ignoring the voices that fuel so much of the conflict. At the same time, we can’t join those who turn this voice into The Palestinian voice. Anyone living here who knows Palestinians knows better. Thank God. (not you, commenter).

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      • sh

        Ayla, I think we, as Israelis who are not, for lack of a better term, ethno-nationalist and who abhor the lack of equality and the oppression carried out in our name should go to the job in hand without fixating on whether we’re loved or not for our pains, or agonizing over whether the animosity seen above is clean, pure hatred or filthy, vile anti-semitism. The letter they wrote is about letting people from Israel into an after-concert party for a Lebanese group that supports BDS, not about keeping Jews out of Jordan. They may be right that it’s not our business.

        There’s lots to do at home, heaven only knows. For example what calls itself the Israeli left/liberal/radical or simply the opposition, instead of becoming a burgeoning tree when faced with current government-condoned, insensate cruelty, still remains the handful of splinters it was reduced to in 1994. How long do we still have to wait before attending to that? Our own election year is less than four months away!!

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        • SH, as a butt-in outsider, I see the coflict and occupation inextricably entwined with the active defintion of the Israeli constitution. Until your political parties begin to address what your constitution is, and how to solidify it, I see an endless squirrel wheel of effort. The High Court’s deference to the State (and IDF) over what to do with refugees trapped between Israeli fences is a small indicator that justice too easily bows to other forces. The Court would have let those refugees stand in the sun two more days. A real Court would never have done that. Your battle is within yourselves, what you will be; the occupation sometimes hides that battle in excuse.

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          • sh

            You’re not an outsider Greg. Your vision is clearer than that of the likes of me and many others. Distance lends perspective and you sure have it. Thanks.

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    21. Palestinian

      We have deep trust issues when it comes to the Zionist entity.Looking back at the history of Zionism and the establishment of Israel in Palestine , its difficult to trust any Jewish Israeli citizen , as we automatically become suspicious of that person wondering whats he/she doing here ,his/her intentions …. I do support a comprehensive cultural ,economic, and academic boycott of Israel ,I dont support Jordanian and Israeli children playing football in Aqaba (one form of normalization),devious camps somewhere in the USA supported and financed by Qana butcher and Zionist thugs where they literally brainwash our youth under the name of “peace” and “building bridges” bla bla bla .Recently several so-called “peace” groups and organizations have invaded facebook , websites and even institutions targeting Arabs in general ,more focused on Palestinians Egyptians Jordanians Lebanese and Syrians (countries surrounding Palestine).However , we arent supposed to make an enemy of Israelis who support our cause (although I cant respect any person who served in the IDF) .We dont recognize the right of Israel to exist in Palestine ,but it does exist , its a reality ,so we have to know how to deal with the 5.9 million Jewish Israelis in a way that doesn’t cause another vicious cycle of violence .And remember , any agreement has to implement our right of return.

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