+972 Magazine's Stories of the Week

Directly In Your Inbox

Analysis News
Visit our Hebrew site, "Local Call" , in partnership with Just Vision.

Activists discover right-wing mole during Gaza solidarity protest

Left-wing Israeli activists expose far-right activist who infiltrated a solidarity demonstration at the Israel-Gaza border.

Right-wing mole 'Emanuel Brosh' (left) seen alongside Im Tirzu activist Tom Nissan during a confrontation with left-wing activists following a solidarity protest at the Gaza-Israel fence. Activists exposed Brosh as a mole after the demonstration, December 21, 2018. (Oren Ziv/Activestills.org)

Right-wing mole ‘Emanuel Brosh’ (left) seen alongside Im Tirzu activist Tom Nissani following a solidarity protest at the Gaza-Israel fence. Activists discovered Brosh was a mole after the demonstration, December 21, 2018. (Oren Ziv/Activestills.org)

Israeli left-wing activists discovered a right-wing mole who had joined them in a solidarity protest at the Gaza fence last Friday. The protests, in solidarity with Palestinian “Great Return March” protests on the Gaza side of the fence, have been taking place for several months now.

The mole, who has been posing as an anti-occupation activist both online and offline, turned out to be a member of the far-right nationalist group Im Tirzu. In addition to joining the demonstration under false pretenses, the man transmitted information about its timing and location to other Im Tirzu members.

“He asked a lot of questions on the ride [from Jerusalem to the Gaza fence],” said one activist who asked not to be named. “He wanted to know what we do at protests, whether we’ll encounter soldiers, where we are going, and when we’ll get there.”

The mole, who falsely identified himself as Emanuel Brosh, also asked the activists if they think IDF soldiers are deliberately trying to harm children in Gaza. The activists said they are worried he recorded their conversations and would edit them out of context, similar to what happened when far-right moles infiltrated Ta’ayush, a grassroots Palestinian-Israeli organization, in 2015, which led to the political arrest of three of its activists.

On the Gaza side of the fence on Friday, Israeli soldiers killed four Palestinians and wounded dozens more. Wafa News Agency identified the fatalities as Maher Yasin, 40; Abdul-Aziz Abu Shari’a, 28; Ayman Munir Mohammed Shabir, 18; and Mohammad Mo’een Jahjouh, 16.

Crowdfund banner 600px

According to the Palestinian Health Ministry, Shabir was shot in the abdomen east of the Al-Bureij refugee camp while al-Jahjuh was killed after being hit in the neck by a bullet fired by Israeli troops. Abu Shari’a and Yasin died after being shot in separate incidents along the border fence. Four Palestinian paramedics and two journalists were reported to be among the injured.

More than 250 Palestinians have been killed by IDF fire since the protests began. Friday’s fatalities were the first since a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas went into effect in November.

On the Israeli side of the fence, the activists were nearly able to reach the fence near Kibbutz Nir Am, across from the Palestinian village of Khuza’a, where they waved Palestinian flags and chanted slogans against Israel’s siege on Gaza. Israeli soldiers, who were stunned to see Israeli demonstrators so close to the fence, fired warning shots in the air to disperse them, which is extremely rare when dealing with Israeli protesters.

A few minutes minute later, while the soldiers were busy trying to remove the demonstrators, Im Tirzu leader Tom Nissani appeared with a photographer, while the former live-streamed the events on the group’s Facebook page.

After 10 minutes, the soldiers declared the area closed military zone, and the activists returned to their cars and left the area. Many of the activists wondered how Nissani was able to reach the protest so quickly.

Right-wing mole 'Emanuel Brosh' seen marching behind an Israeli soldier alongside anti-occupation activists near the Gaza-Israel fence, December 21, 2018. (Oren Ziv/Activestills.org)

Right-wing mole ‘Emanuel Brosh’ seen marching behind an Israeli soldier alongside anti-occupation activists near the Gaza-Israel fence, December 21, 2018. (Oren Ziv/Activestills.org)

Following the protest, activists gathered at a nearby gas station, where they confronted Brosh, who raised suspicions prior to the protest at the fence. The activists accused him of being a mole and demanded to see his phone. Brosh agreed, and the activists said they found a text message exchange with an Im Tirzu activist, in which he gave them the exact location of the protest.

Brosh told the activists, “I am not ashamed of what I do,” and a few minutes later, Nissani showed up and the two eventually left together.

Im Tirzu responded to the incident on its Facebook page, writing that “one of our dear activists was exposed while carrying out important activities as part of an anarchist cell that acts against Israeli soldiers.” According to the Facebook post, the other Im Tirzu activists “quickly arrived, as soon as there was concern that violence would be used against our activist.”

Im Tirzu’s statement, however, does not reflect what happened on the ground. No violence was directed at Brosh by the activists, and his identity was revealed only after the demonstrators had already left the area.

A version of this article of this article was first published in Hebrew on Local Call. Read it here.

Before you go...

A lot of work goes into creating articles like the one you just read. And while we don’t do this for the money, even our model of non-profit, independent journalism has bills to pay.

+972 Magazine is owned by our bloggers and journalists, who are driven by passion and dedication to the causes we cover. But we still need to pay for editing, photography, translation, web design and servers, legal services, and more.

As an independent journalism outlet we aren’t beholden to any outside interests. In order to safeguard that independence voice, we are proud to count you, our readers, as our most important supporters. If each of our readers becomes a supporter of our work, +972 Magazine will remain a strong, independent, and sustainable force helping drive the discourse on Israel/Palestine in the right direction.

Support independent journalism in Israel/Palestine Donate to +972 Magazine today
View article: AAA
Share article
Print article
  • LEAVE A COMMENT

    * Required

    COMMENTS

    1. Lewis from Afula

      This is really good news !
      The front representing cultural Marxists, self-haters and degenerates is being infiltrated by Israeli patriots !
      Well done, Im Tirtzu !

      Reply to Comment
    2. Haim

      This is just like what the security forces did in apartheid South Africa. They attempted to infiltrate anti apartheid groups, sometimes very successfully. The most famous one was Craig William,son, who murdered Ruth First with a letter bomb. She was a leading Jewish Communist who was an ANC supporter.

      Reply to Comment
    3. UnimpressedRealist

      ” I am not ashamed of what I do.”

      Yes you are and if you are not, then there is something fundamentally wrong with you.

      Reply to Comment
    4. Ben

      Here’s the thing: Breaking the Silence, B’Tselem, +972 Magazine are unfailingly honest, have unimpeachable integrity–it is exactly this integrity, and the exposing of truth that goes with it, that drives Bibi and the right wing up the wall. They just can’t get their minds around the fact that, unlike the right wing, Breaking the Silence, B’Tselem and +972 Magazine will not lie, will not engage in fraudulence, meticulously document and research matters (and moles constantly trying to plant false stories to discredit them makes this all the more important as self-defense), have a sterling record of backing human rights for all. Bibi & Co. just can’t stand the fact that these groups break the silence and break it with integrity.

      Integrity for Bibi and the right wing and their assorted fanatics is like some weird cultural practice of outer space alien visitors, or of some obscure just-discovered lost tribe in distant mountains–peculiar alien behavior to be studied, preempted, and not emulated. Which is why Bibi feels entirely at home cozying up to Polish and Hungarian anti-Semites and to the Russians and Trump. He gets them. He likes them. They mutually admire each other.

      Ask yourself why right wing moles have to try to infiltrate false allegations with Breaking the Silence in order to trick it and smear the organization. If Breaking the Silence could actually be caught doing something dishonest on their own, why would these moles be operative? The question answers itself.

      The right wing has to resort to moles and manufactured fraudulence and calculated, organized smear jobs because it knows that the truth is not on its side. That is the reality. And it is why right wing people just can’t stand +972 Magazine. And it is why Bibi and Shaked and Bennett and Erdan are giving +972 Magazine hostile attention and trying to defund it–
      https://972mag.com/israel-defund-972-magazine/139073/

      –which attention is a kind of badge of honor, a certificate of current and growing relevance. Nothing proves that better than the organized hostility the government is directing at them.

      Please donate today to the crowdfunding campaign. It is just *because* +972 Magazine is uncorrupted and uncorruptable that they depend on your donations. The most effective answer to the Right’s attempt to defund +972 is to fund +972 all the more, to do something in your control and ramp up their funding with your own donations.

      Reply to Comment
      • Ido

        “unfailingly honesty, unimpeachable integrity and truth” -> Right.

        Breaking the Silence:

        Breaking the Silence takes testimonies from combat soldiers in the IDF. They take a large number of testimonies. By their own admission, they cherry-pick the ones that cast the IDF in a negative light and publish/publicize those with the stated goal of “ending the occupation”, which of course has little to do with how individual low-ranking soldiers act.
        Their testimonies are anonymous, and some of the ones that aren’t were exposed as lies. This does not bode well for their credibility, but beyond that it’s called slander/libel, and would be illegal in almost any country.
        They have been collecting data that can be used as military intelligence on the IDF and handing it over to Israel’s enemies, among others. The did so on camera:
        https://bit.ly/2V8r2Hh
        In other countries this would be regarded as close to treason.
        “a collection of personal anecdotes are not a replacement for scientific research”. This group, however, acts like it is. No one denies that there are acts committed by IDF soldiers that are not strictly kosher. In fact it’s almost inevitable since that’s the case in virtually every army at any time anywhere. The army, is like society. There are also civilian Israelis who don’t keep the law.
        The thing is that this is the case everywhere. The US, France, Russia etc. There will always be individuals who commit crimes within a system that operates by law. But that doesn’t reflect on the system as a whole.
        “Breaking Silence” is a foreign funded anti-Israel smear campaign designed to take individual cases of wrongdoing which the IDF didn’t approve of an individual soldier doing and instead of bringing it to court as legally required in case of wrongdoing, brings it to the court of public opinion instead presented as something the IDF sanctions.

        And of course they lie:
        https://bit.ly/2SqxuHG

        B’Tselem:

        Some examples of their truth and integrity:
        https://bit.ly/2AdAuQK

        Some examples of my posts exposing +972 Magazine’s writers integrity and honesty, see the first or second post in the Facebook comments section:
        https://bit.ly/2tjt5v0
        https://bit.ly/2L7NJFz
        https://bit.ly/2SdYvhA
        https://bit.ly/2CwsM5I

        Reply to Comment
        • Ben

          You mean the way the Palestinians “lied” about Mohammed Tamimi?

          The Right doesn’t want you to know about the violence of occupation
          https://972mag.com/the-right-doesnt-want-you-to-know-about-the-violence-of-occupation/133722/

          You’re joking, Ido?

          You gotta love the Arutz Sheva-reported Channel 10 “survey.” We know already that Israeli mainstream media like Channel 10 serve the Jewish public the red meat it wants and willingly cooperate with army disinformation by passing on IDF spokesmens’ and other military propaganda feeds unchallenged. No one should accept Channel 10’s spurious methodology. If I publish a paper with a dubious claim that runs contrary to much other evidence and common sense (such as, “Breaking the Silence lies”) I need sources and documentation and proof, not a hatchet job, not some Aruz Sheva feed of a right wing soldiers’ outfit’s feed of a cheesy Channel 10 smear job. I should trust Channel 10? Like I should trust Ayalet Shaked and the evil smear job she pulled on Dean Issacharoff? Who do you think you’re kidding, Ido? Many of the BtS testimonies are “anonymous” for the very reason that Israelis and their government viciously persecute those who testify publicly. Ido knows that and I know that and you know that. But Ido doesn’t care. Seriously, the more I read people like this the more I half-wonder if they are paid disinformation specialists for a government “digital platform.” I mean, the GOI is so above board, and is so neutral and free-press-minded about +972 Magazine, that I would be absolutely paranoid to thing that, right? Riiiiigghht.

          For the millionth time, Ido incessantly links to devious, distortion-littered propaganda sheets masquerading as collections of “facts.”

          “they cherry-pick the ones that cast the IDF in a negative light”

          So, let me get this straight, if government prosecutors somewhere were to pick the actual cases presented to them in which a law was broken, that is, the most serious cases, for prosecution, that would be “cherry-picking”? Not serious stuff, Ido. Not ready for prime time. BtS should pick stories of IDF soldiers helping little old ladies cross the street and handing out flowers to peaceful Palestinian protestors? When Ezra Nawi was singled out for smearing Ta’ayush did the people who did the job on him “cherry-pick” that one? Ya think?

          For the second time, here’s the thing: Ask yourself why right wing moles have to try to infiltrate false allegations with Breaking the Silence in order to trick it and smear the organization. If Breaking the Silence could actually be or ever had been convincingly caught doing something dishonest on their own, why would these moles be operative? You can’t answer that honestly Ido except to validate what I am saying.

          Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            For the second time also, Breaking the Silence and +972 Magazine and other human- rights-compass-oriented organizations drive right wing folks up the wall because those folks just can’t get their minds around the fact that these organizations actually practice integrity—which seems to the right wing like some weird cultural practice of outer space alien visitors. Breaking the Silence’s whole raison d’être is integrity, and calling the Right to account for its lack thereof. That’s why they call it “Breaking the Silence.”

            The antidote to Ido’s slander is simply to watch Yehuda Shaul; watch all of his talk all the way through:

            Yehuda Shaul – Breaking the Silence – Seattle, Nov 14, 2013
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxHE4KrLvj0

            It will be like a bath of integrity, or a mental enema after Ido’s mentally constipating diet of propaganda. Sorry for the gross metaphor, but when we think of Ido, we think of what John Cassidy in the entirely respectable and proper and serious ‘New Yorker’ publication called Trump: “the great Orwellian shit spreader.” Google it and you’ll find the article.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “You mean the way the Palestinians “lied” about Mohammed Tamimi?” -> no since it has absolutely nothing to do with Mohammed Tamimi. Nothing at all. This is you, again, changing the subject to avoid addressing my post.
            “You gotta love the Arutz Sheva-reported Channel 10” -> we already discussed this at length. I actually brought the video in question itself. Proved again how ‘Breaking the Silence’ are a farce. How the reporters who actually supported them changed their opinion when they witnessed the evidence about ‘Breaking the Silence’.
            You completely ignored the post above where I explain why their methods are problematic to say the least. How their agenda, backed by foreign funding, is obvious. I don’t mind repeating it:
            Breaking the Silence takes testimonies from combat soldiers in the IDF. They take a large number of testimonies. By their own admission, they cherry-pick the ones that cast the IDF in a negative light and publish/publicize those with the stated goal of “ending the occupation”, which of course has little to do with how individual low-ranking soldiers act.
            Their testimonies are anonymous, and some of the ones that aren’t were exposed as lies. This does not bode well for their credibility, but beyond that it’s called slander/libel, and would be illegal in almost any country.
            They have been collecting data that can be used as military intelligence on the IDF and handing it over to Israel’s enemies, among others. The did so on camera.
            No one denies that there are acts committed by IDF soldiers that are not strictly kosher. In fact it’s almost inevitable since that’s the case in virtually every army at any time anywhere. The army, is like society. There are also civilian Israelis who don’t keep the law.
            The thing is that this is the case everywhere. The US, France, Russia etc. There will always be individuals who commit crimes within a system that operates by law. But that doesn’t reflect on the system as a whole.
            “Breaking Silence” is a foreign funded anti-Israel smear campaign designed to take individual cases of wrongdoing which the IDF didn’t approve of an individual soldier doing and instead of bringing it to court as legally required in case of wrongdoing, brings it to the court of public opinion instead presented as something the IDF sanctions.
            Is any of this incorrect ? why are you ignoring it ?

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “No one should accept Channel 10’s spurious methodology” -> which part of their evidence is incorrect ?
            “I need sources and documentation and proof” -> and I provided it to you, more than once or twice.
            “Aruz Sheva feed” -> the evidence was not collected by them.
            “cheesy Channel 10 smear job” -> saying this will not somehow unmake the evidence about ‘Breaking the Silence’. You of course completely ignored my post where I show how ‘Breaking the Silence’ are the epitome of a smear job.
            “I should trust Channel 10” -> no, you should trust the evidence and the details I mentioned in the post above which you of course ignored. Including the first link, which you of course ignored.
            “viciously persecute those who testify publicly” -> testimonies who were not anonymous were brought to the attention of the police and were handled in court. Like the one from 3 months ago about the soldiers assaulting women at checkpoints or the one about the bribes.
            Were the ones who reported the incidents viciously persecuted ? please, provide the details and evidence. Are you that dense that you don’t understand how anonymous testimonies are problematic ?

            “I half-wonder if they are paid disinformation specialists” -> what a coincidence! I was wondering the same thing about you and your clueless nonsense which I detail on so many pages here.
            “that would be “cherry-picking”?” -> seriously ? you simply completely ignored what I said, twisted what I actually said. I actually said it should have been picked by the police.
            Read my post again. You picked one sentence and removed it from context. cherry-picking, as it were.
            “IDF soldiers helping little old ladies” -> if there are 1,000 such stories and 2 where a soldier beat an old lady, which was not ordered or sanctioned by the army and the soldier acted not according to orders which type of story do you think reflects on said army ?
            “When Ezra Nawi” -> yes, your affinity for the child raping Palestinian killer was already established.
            “did the job on him “cherry-pick” that one” -> what are you talking about ? the guy was exposed in a television report proudly saying how he led Palestinians to their certain deaths and torture by the Palestinian Authority. He should have been thrown to prison on the rape charge alone.
            “why right wing moles have to try to infiltrate false allegations” -> what false allegations ? a similar mole was the one who exposed Ezra Nawi as a murderer.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 3): “been convincingly caught doing something dishonest” -> you mean besides what I wrote in the post you ignored and I repeated again ?
            “why would these moles be operative” -> um, to gather information which ‘Breaking the Silence’ doesn’t want to be gathered ? was that a serious question ?
            “except to validate what I am saying” -> what are you talking about ? you just asked why spies exist. As if you’re living in a world of fairy tales and leprechauns. Incredible.

            “actually practice integrity” -> so the 4 links I provided about this news blog, showing in detail backed by evidence how truth and integrity are not exactly practiced by some of their writers, do not exist because you ignored them ?
            Go ahead, address them. Which part isn’t true ? which evidence is wrong ?
            “simply to watch Yehuda Shaul” -> oh I did. I actually provided you with the recorded evidence of him lying on camera.
            “It will be like a bath of integrity” -> more like a bath of blood libel if you recall the details of his lies.
            “constipating diet of propaganda” -> should I even bother mentioning how you ignored almost all my posts and evidence again ? how is reality based facts ‘propaganda’ ? do explain.
            “called Trump” -> oh yes, this definitely has something to do with what I said. Now how about addressing all the parts you elegantly ignored ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Hmmm…another loving line-by-line rumination from Ido the Talmudic Scholar of Ben. In three glorious chapters.

            “no since it has absolutely nothing to do with Mohammed Tamimi.”

            But obviously it does, doesn’t it? See:

            The IDF spreads a lie and the Israeli press plays along
            https://972mag.com/the-idf-spreads-a-lie-and-the-israeli-press-plays-along/133493/

            Because it’s about the Israeli government lying — about which, you — promiscuous accuser of everyone left of you being a liar — won’t say boo. You, who pass on to us Arutz Sheva innuendo and Shaked-Erdan-style disinformation as if it were holy writ, would like to tell us that the government and IDF lying through their teeth about Mohammed Tamimi just has nothing to do with the topic here? Which topic is slander of those who oppose the occupation, and the credibility of those caught slandering. Again Ido thinks we can’t read and Ido thinks we were born yesterday.

            Ido is sure that if he were to catch one Breaking the Silence person lying once (he hasn’t) that would destroy the credibility of the entire Breaking the Silence organization, but when the IDF and the government lie repeatedly, over and over, for Ido that doesn’t at all besmirch the credibility of the IDF and the GOI? What gives? (The question is rhetorical.)

            Ido, you are acting here at the tactical and ethical level of the moles. Really you’re quite funny with these dogged attempts to infiltrate propaganda.

            Love the farcical deployment of the word “proved.” Enough said.

            I don’t know if or when I’ll get to the rest of this tendentious twaddle. I wouldn’t count on it. But there’s a lot of ripe, low hanging fruit so I will try. But there is only so much time in the day one can devote to you being you on the internet.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): Hmmm.. another post where you ignored almost everything I said, mainly about the links with evidence I provided about the articles on this very own news blog and B’tselem.
            Why is that ? you think I won’t notice ? if you’ll ignore it it’ll go away ?
            “But obviously it does, doesn’t it?” -> no, it doesn’t. It’s a different issue which has absolutely nothing to do with what I posted. You are, again, changing the subject. But sure I’ll address it, when you address the posts you ignored.

            “Because it’s about the Israeli government lying” -> and once again you completely ignored what I posted about Breaking the Silence, how their methods are problematic, to say the least, I don’t mind repeating it for a third time:
            Breaking the Silence takes testimonies from combat soldiers in the IDF. They take a large number of testimonies. By their own admission, they cherry-pick the ones that cast the IDF in a negative light and publish/publicize those with the stated goal of “ending the occupation”, which of course has little to do with how individual low-ranking soldiers act.
            Their testimonies are anonymous, and some of the ones that aren’t were exposed as lies. This does not bode well for their credibility, but beyond that it’s called slander/libel, and would be illegal in almost any country.
            They have been collecting data that can be used as military intelligence on the IDF and handing it over to Israel’s enemies, among others. The did so on camera.
            No one denies that there are acts committed by IDF soldiers that are not strictly kosher. In fact it’s almost inevitable since that’s the case in virtually every army at any time anywhere. The army, is like society. There are also civilian Israelis who don’t keep the law.
            The thing is that this is the case everywhere. The US, France, Russia etc. There will always be individuals who commit crimes within a system that operates by law. But that doesn’t reflect on the system as a whole.
            “Breaking Silence” is a foreign funded anti-Israel smear campaign designed to take individual cases of wrongdoing which the IDF didn’t approve of an individual soldier doing and instead of bringing it to court as legally required in case of wrongdoing, brings it to the court of public opinion instead presented as something the IDF sanctions.
            Is any of this incorrect ? why are you ignoring it ?

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “promiscuous accuser of everyone left of you being a liar” -> when I say you’re a liar I always provide the evidence why that is. Always. You ignore it as if it never happens. You even tried to avoid addressing your lies by coming up with a brilliant scheme where you insisted I provide the exact date and quote, basically repeating the same post you ignored from months ago. Sadly (for you) it backfired gloriously when I did. You of course either ignored it again or lied about it some more. Would you like me to provide evidence for this as well ?
            “just has nothing to do with the topic here?” -> so by your “logic” if I caught you lying a few times (it was a lot more than a few time of course), everything else which comes out of your mouth is a lie ? interesting.
            It has nothing to do with Breaking the Silence, their actions and goals are not exactly a secret, they were caught on camera doing what can be regarded as treason (see the first link about them you ignored for a third time).
            “Which topic is slander of those who oppose the occupation” -> I also oppose the occupation but I don’t get paid by foreign governments to slander the IDF based on cherry-picked anonymous testimonies that should have been sent to the police, or as I said in the post I repeated again above for a third time.
            “Ido thinks we can’t read” -> judging by you ignoring the post again and the link I mentioned, I think it’s more of a selective reading process.
            “one Breaking the Silence person lying once” -> I did of course, one of the heads of breaking the Silence lying on camera. I even provided the recording. You seem to be blocking this from your mind repeatedly. Would you like to see the page where we discussed this at length again ?
            “What gives?” -> I find it hysterical that you, one of the biggest liars I ever had the pleasure of debating with, is discussing credibility.
            “Love the farcical deployment of the word “proved.”” -> lie to yourself as much as you like. What I posted, the links, the evidence, all of it is not going to change. You not being able to address them is quite telling.
            “I don’t know if or when I’ll get to the rest of this tendentious twaddle” -> oh I’ll be holding my breath.
            “a lot of ripe, low hanging fruit” -> that’s great. The 4 links to the various articles you ignored now for a third time are still right there, where they were the first time you ignored them.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            This is addressed to your posts of December 26 not December 27. The latter contain nothing new, are perseverative, and merit no separate reply. Ido, I don’t ignore your posts. I find them weak and unsupported, and beyond that, I find them sneaky. This implicit endorsement of Ad Kan by you is revealing. As is often the case you have this backwards. Telling me that I “ignore” your posts and that my reply “has nothing to do with” anything at hand are two of your stock phrases, stock replies that in fact are your ways of ignoring what others tell you and your way of dodging the real issues in favor of your propaganda assault. It is a form of control but we are not going to be controlled.

            “not strictly kosher.. The army, is like society. There are also civilian Israelis who don’t keep the law.”

            This baloney gets to the heart of the matter and reveals how you just don’t get it or refuse to get it. What is “non-kosher” that the soldiers do during the occupation is built into the operational plan. It is official tactics and strategy. The entire occupation is “non-kosher” in the sense you are using the term. That is it’s essence. It’s built in. By design. That is what Yehuda Shaul’s whole talk that I link to is about. (Which you ignore.) The army does not ever treat Palestinian civilians anything remotely like it treats civilian Israelis. (Every statement of yours seems to have some easy false assumption underlying it.)

            “within a system that operates by law. But that doesn’t reflect on the system as a whole.”

            The system does not operate by law. The occupation is institutionalized lawlessness, or if you want, rather, two separate systems of law for two ethnicities, and two separate and totally different sets of enforcement and punishment regimes. Thousands of “non-kosher” acts by settlers are never punished while the army and police make a show of investigating but develop sudden incompetence they never show while investigating non-Jews. That’s apartheid. (Why haven’t you yet read +972’s License to Kill series? It’s all there.)

            So these acts uncovered by Breaking the Silence are not acts of “bad apples.” Or non-kosher apples. They are normal procedure. By troops who are the apple of the eye of the Israeli public that refuses to listen to Breaking the Silence. Just like you, Ido. Watch Yehuda. Listen to him. These acts very much DO reflect on the system as a whole.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “I find them weak and unsupported” -> that’s an absurd lie as I back them up with evidence you simply ignore. For example when I say the Palestinian leadership said something I provided a video of them saying it. In your face.
            When I say what their goals and objectives are are I provide the specific document they use to specify what their goals and objective are. Explain how is it weak and unsupported.
            “The latter contain nothing new” -> besides pointing out again how you ignored my posts that is. Especially the one with the 4 links about the “honesty and integrity” of the writers on this very own news blog. And the one about Be’tselem.
            which you ignored for a 4th time. Please address them and explain how the multitude of evidence I provided is weak and unsupported.
            “I find them sneaky” -> proving you have no idea what you’re talking about, how you lie over and over and how you’re a perfect example of a ‘Useful Idiot’ who takes Arab propaganda as fact is “sneaky” ? well, the truth can sometimes sneak on you I guess.
            “are two of your stock phrases” -> how many times have you changed the subject to avoid addressing my posts and evidence ? are you going to lie about this as well ? would you like me to post examples ? fair warning: it’ll take more than one post.
            “your ways of ignoring what others tell” -> by all means, which post ? be specific. Then I’ll post the ones you did, again.
            “your way of dodging” -> this is rich coming from someone who turned evading my posts and evidence to a form of art by now. My favorite excuse of yours is still, and I quote you: “the Palestinian leadership are not that important or influential” so you won’t have to deal with the many examples I provided about them doing and saying exactly what I said they do. This is you claiming the dictators/theocratic terrorists who literally are in control of the Palestinians, the policy makes, the ones who canceled Democracy so they won’t be replaced, are not that important or influential. Are you going to deny that you said this incredible idiotic thing to avoid addressing my posts and evidence ?
            “but we are not going to be controlled” -> what are you talking about ? a form of control ? where do you pull this idiotic nonsense from ?

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “the soldiers do during the occupation is built into the operational plan” -> simply not true. Then you haven’t read the testimonies of Breaking the Silence. I suggest you do. From your own example, what Dean Issacharoff claimed he did was in no way ‘built into the plan’. What he did was literally against orders.
            “It is official tactics and strategy” -> and it was definitely not official tactics and strategy.
            “The entire occupation is “non-kosher” in the sense you are using the term” -> this is exactly what I mean when I say you’re changing the subject and evading my posts. We were discussing Breaking the Silence and their methods, the testimonies and why they are problematic. I posted it 3 times.
            You ignore this, take out a sentence and switch it. I was talking about the actions of soldiers and events described by Breaking the Silence. If you want to discuss the occupation I suggest you also include the actions and goals of the non-Israeli side, the part which you consistently ignore as it has nothing to do with Israel’s actions.
            “Which you ignore” -> I didn’t. And I addressed him specifically, I also provided evidence about him, specifically. Which you now ignored.
            “the army does not ever treat Palestinian civilians anything remotely like it treats civilian Israelis” -> Maybe because they aren’t Israeli civilians and will never be Israeli civilians ? the Palestinian don’t treat Israeli civilians like Palestinian civilians. They lynch them when they enter their areas on occasion. The Palestinians are civilians of the Palestinian Authority and Gaza, not Israel.
            “Every statement of yours seems to have some easy false assumption” -> which ones ? be specific.
            “The system does not operate by law” -> yes it does, specifically the law and rules dictated by the army about how a soldier should behave, and if you read the testimonies of Breaking the Silence you’ll see how it doesn’t follow them.
            “The occupation is institutionalized lawlessness” -> again you take what I said about Breaking the Silence and move the goalposts to the Occupation in general. And how do you call the Palestinian leaderships refusal to accept the legitimacy of Israel, how they call for the elimination of Israel, how they see all of Israel as their “Palestine”, how they fund and call and order the murder of Jews ?
            all the things you ignore repeatedly as if they have no bearing whatsoever in Israel’s actions.

            more to follow

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 3): Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, removed all the settlements there. Every single one. By force when it was necessary. Allowing the Palestinians to show the world their honest and peaceful intentions, how when all the Jews are out they are going to accept peace and coexistence with Israel.
            What actually happened ? the Palestinians elected a Jihadi terrorist organization with “death to Israel and murder Jews” as a running platform. They moved their missile and rocket launchers closer to the border for better aim at Israeli civilians and their leaders (who are very much important and influential) say openly and very, very clearly how they see all of Israel as theirs. All of it, from the Sea to the River.
            The Hamas charter states very clearly: all of Israel is sacred Muslim land. Nobody has authority to cede an inch of Israel to non-Muslim rule. The party’s goal is to “fly the banner of Allah” over every inch of Israel.
            Peaceful co-existence with non-Muslims in Israel is “inconsistent” with the Hamas movement. This was a great litmus test for the West Bank and you think Israel is going to allow the Palestinians there the benefit of the doubt ? in an area with direct aim at the strategic and economic heart of Israel ? especially after what their leaders (who are very important and influential) say and do ? are you that stupid ? this is literally suicidally insane.
            “separate systems of law for two ethnicities” -> nope, this is you pulling stuff out of your ass again. You really, really want Israel to be Apartheid, sadly this is not the case. The Palestinians are ruled by the Palestinian Authority and Allah willing by their own future country which I’m sure will be a human rights respecting democratic heaven, with no corruption, economic powerhouse and a lot of stability, religious freedom and non-tribal violence like every other Arab country around Israel. This is sarcasm by the way.
            “and two separate and totally different sets of enforcement” -> Again: absolutely wrong. Unless you refer to the Palestinians self-governed rule as separated from Israel’s which is quite accurate. The same way as I don’t submit to the rules and enforcement of Ramallah or Gaza and I have no intention of doing so.
            “Thousands of “non-kosher” acts by settlers are never punished” -> as I said in the past, Israel should withdraw from the West Bank, work out a peace agreement with whoever has the authority to do so on the Palestinian side (which is not exactly clear right now) for a future of co-existence, side by side, not together under the same government.
            “That’s apartheid” -> as I explained to you in detail about 30 times, no it isn’t. By definition you yourself provided.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 4): “Why haven’t you yet read +972’s License to Kill series” -> You know what ? I will, when you actually address my posts here, with the evidence I provided. Not cut 2 sentences out of one post and ignore what I was actually saying.
            It’s all right there. Would you like me to repeat it again ?
            “So these acts uncovered by Breaking the Silence are not acts of “bad apples.”” -> yes they are. By their own description which now I think you never actually read.
            “They are normal procedure” -> nope, that’s a lie.
            “These acts very much DO reflect on the system” -> as someone who actually been there, nope. Simply wrong. Now will you address the posts and evidence you ignored ? would you like me to re-post them ? maybe you missed it.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Regarding the four walls of your output on December 28th:

            ‘“I find them weak and unsupported” -> that’s an absurd lie as I back them up with evidence you simply ignore.’

            But (for the millionth time) it’s not a “lie.” Where on Earth did you learn English? And where on Earth did you get the idea that your selective quotations are “evidence” of your thesis? I can find any number of quotations by Palestinian and Israeli officials that fly in the face of all your assertions. This trick of “gotcha!, I found a quotation!” is child’s play, not ready for prime time.

            It’s not “a lie.” When are you ever going to learn to use this word properly and non-offensively? I sincerely believe that your posts are what I say they are and that it is you who ignore everybody else by the evasion and control techniques mentioned and I believe that you are now waxing abusive because getting called out on this frustrates you. As I think I already told you, I think that your posts are almost all of them either beside the point or deliberately miss the point and are a study in cluelessness. Just for example:

            “…Maybe because they aren’t Israeli civilians and will never be Israeli civilians ?…”

            Based on a response like this, you are miles away from understanding anything about the occupation. Ditto with:

            “…you take what I said about Breaking the Silence and move the goalposts to the Occupation in general….” Say what?

            Ditto with your tiresomely distorted histories, of Gaza, etc. And on and on and on. It’s endless.

            One thus dissects the assumptive world you live in.

            And whaddayaknow, comes along just in time this article on routine lawlessness and deviousness as S.O.P. for the army-settler complex.
            https://972mag.com/seven-palestinians-hospitalized-settler-attack-hebron-activists/139442/

            And even better, do not miss the Related Article box there with “A rotten system, not just rotten apples.”

            And even better yet, read “As long as occupation exists, soldiers will continue to speak out.” (Re: “as someone who actually been there, nope. Simply wrong.” Did you serve in the Haruv Battalion in 2009?)

            So your timing is unfortunate.

            You admit that you haven’t read the License to Kill series but in the next breath presume to say that it’s just “bad apples,” it’s not lawlessness, and it’s not apartheid. This clarifies for us your astonishing know-nothing, smug complacency.

            We’ve been over this how many times? Ain’t no lesson learned in the second kick of a mule. Or the five hundredth in four concrete parts.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): When you say something which is the opposite of the truth that makes it a lie. When you claimed you didn’t say something and you did, that makes it a lie.
            When you say something I said, which I never did, that makes it a lie.
            “your selective quotations are “evidence” of your thesis?” -> what selective quotations ? what are you talking about ? show it, prove it. Back up your claims. Why can’t you do this ?
            You’re the one who has been twisting and selectively choosing single sentences from my posts and you’re again projecting it at me ? how pathetic are you ?
            “I can find any number of quotations by Palestinian and Israeli officials that fly in the face of all your assertions” -> then do it. Go right ahead. Then I can compare them to my evidence, taken from the top leaders of both Palestinian factions, the very important and influential ones, who say exactly what I claimed they say so we can compare your evidence to mine to show how far out of touch with reality are you. So please, by all means, go right ahead.
            “This trick of “gotcha!, I found a quotation!” is child’s play” -> this is ridiculous nonsense. I provided proof that the Palestinian leadership do and say exactly what I claimed they do and say: rejecting the legitimacy of Israel, calling for and funding the slaughter of Jews, seeing all of Israel as theirs, etc. How is it a trick ? are those quotes and evidence out of character for Hamas ? for Fatah ? are you that out of touch with reality ? this is again you desperately looking for a way to evade addressing the fact that I proved you wrong repeatedly, by providing the Palestinians themselves to yell the uncomfortable truth in your clueless face. Grow up and deal with it.
            “It’s not “a lie.”” -> I always enjoy the meta side of your posts, when you lie about lying.
            “I sincerely believe that your posts are what I say they are” -> Again: your belief is irrelevant. Reality and facts don’t care what you believe. When Hamas say all of Israel is Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day (Hamas charter article 11) and no one can do anything about it, your faith in the opposite is irrelevant.
            When PLO leaders openly state they won’t accept Israel’s legitimacy and all of it is theirs and how Oslo was a deceit (all proven to you, from the mouths of the Palestinians themselves) your faith in the opposite is irrelevant.
            “and that it is you who ignore everybody else by the evasion and control techniques” -> you were wondering about lying ? there you go. And the usual projecting what you have been doing.
            “getting called out on this frustrates you” -> yes, tell that to yourself if it comforts you. I don’t mind.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “all of them either beside the point” -> this is especially hilarious after you did this exact thing as I pointed it out in the previous 3 posts, which you of course ignored.
            “Based on a response like this, you are miles away from understanding anything about the occupation” -> by pointing out a fact ? that Israelis are citizens of Israel and Palestinians are citizens of the Palestinian Authority and Gaza ?
            “Say what?” -> Again: third time: you ignored what I said about Breaking the Silence. About their methods and actions and why they are problematic, as I explained in detail about 6 or 7 times now. Which you of course ignored.
            You would like to discuss the Occupation in general and as I pointed out I don’t mind if you want to change the subject but you should for once accept that Israel is not acting in a void and there is another side to the conflict. Something you seem to have a very hard time grasping for some reason.
            “Ditto with your tiresomely distorted histories, of Gaza, etc” -> what are you talking about ? this is you again making absurd statements with zero evidence to back it up.
            “comes along just in time this article” -> and we have another example of you simply elegantly skipping over my posts and evidence and changing the subject. Again. Thank you but I have enough examples of you doing this.
            “read “As long as occupation exists, soldiers will” -> sure, first address the posts you skipped and the evidence you ignored for a 6th or 7th time.
            “Did you serve in the Haruv Battalion in 2009?” -> no, I served in the army in the West Bank so I know from experience the “A rotten system, not just rotten apples” regarding Breaking the Silence testimonies is bullshit.
            “presume to say that it’s just “bad apples,”” -> regarding the testimonies of Breaking the Silence, you know, the topic at hand. Because you chose to evade the others (this news blog’s articles and b’Tselem).
            “and it’s not apartheid” -> by your own definition, no it isn’t no matter how much you really, really want it to be.
            “This clarifies for us your astonishing know-nothing, smug complacency” -> yes your highness, your use of the royal ‘us’ and ‘we’ is always amusing. This coming from someone who as I proved so many times doesn’t know what he’s talking about, is clueless to such extremes that you believe some of the most absurd Palestinian
            propaganda lies and anti-semitic drivel, which is beyond absurd. I believed you were hurt when I said how the Palestinians’ own President is a raging anti-semite. You went awfully quiet about it when I provided the evidence for it.
            “We’ve been over this how many times?” -> and it’s more entertaining each and every time and for that I thank you.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            “then do it. Go right ahead”

            Sure. That’s easy:

            https://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-says-he-has-no-right-to-live-in-safed-and-has-no-demands-on-pre-1967-israel/

            “by pointing out a fact ?”

            This is Ido’s classic concreteness, his pretending to not understand that an isolated so-called “fact” does not the larger point make unless you are determined to studiously ignore the larger reality. That the very act of focusing on “the fact” like an autistic person is an evasion and a misunderstanding and a deception. In point of fact, these Israeli settlers are citizens of the state Israel but illegally occupying a place (not Israel) in which they are NOT citizens, and Palestinians are indigenous protected persons under occupation (that is, they are supposed to be protected but are anything but that under the Israeli occupation regime) not “citizens” of a state that does not exist. That’s apartheid.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “Sure. That’s easy” -> that’s great. Now explain how the evidence I provided, which contradicts basically everything he said, came after 2012 when this interview took place and actually corresponds with the PLO charter and stated goals. And wasn’t to an Israeli network.
            Then why didn’t they change the charter ? why does the official PLO emblem still show the entire land of Israel ?
            And of course he lied: there was the ‘knife Intifadah’ in 2015-2016, and he and his party were directly responsible for it with their rabid incitement, along with Hamas of course.

            So thank you for proving I was right.

            “these Israeli settlers are citizens of the state Israel but illegally occupying a place (not Israel) in which they are NOT citizens” -> you mentioned ‘the larger reality’ ? those settlers are in ara C and they are administered by Judea and Samaria Area of administration
            and the Palestinians by the Palestinian National Authority as dictated by the Oslo Accords.
            “not “citizens” of a state that does not exist” -> the Palestinian Authority, as is Gaza’s administration by Hamas, are quite real and they do exist.
            Which of these facts are too complicated for you to grasp ?

            “That’s apartheid” -> as pointed out, you were wrong. And by your own definition, thanks by the way for that link, nope. It isn’t. No matter how hard you want it to be.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            IDO: “When you say something which is the opposite of the truth that makes it a lie….”

            That is simply wrong. I cannot believe that I have to correct your English like this. Is THIS the basis of your month’s long, offensive misuse of this word?? Wow.

            A lie is an INTENTIONALLY false statement.
            https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/lie

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “That is simply wrong” -> and we have here a fine example of you cutting one sentence of what I said and completely drop what came after it which actually specifies what I meant by it:
            When you claimed you didn’t say something and you did, that makes it a lie. When you say something I said, which I never did, that makes it a lie.
            I meant something which you know I said or you did and you claim otherwise. I cannot believe that I have to correct you on this and call you on your selective editing again.
            You made INTENTIONALLY false statements. You’re a liar, plain and simple. Would you like more examples ? there are so many to choose from. Would you like to start with the one from September 30, 2018 ? one of my favorites.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Looking back at Ido’s December 26th output in three chapters:

            “They have been collecting data that can be used as military intelligence on the IDF and handing it over to Israel’s enemies, among others. The did so on camera.”

            This is the kind of contemptible smear job the right wing Ad Kan type moles try to pin on BtS through every sneaky trick.

            Ido’s attempt to slander is explained here:
            https://972mag.com/political-persecution-wont-stop-us-from-breaking-our-silence/117265/

            ‘One of the central strategies of the campaign against us is through spreading lies and disinformation about the organization — all of it thoroughly coordinated on various platforms. Behind this strategy is one of Education Minister Naftali Bennett’s closest advisors, Moshe Klughaft, whose goal is quite simple: “We must always try slander, because things stick.” Slanderous remarks were heard time and time again in the Knesset, in campaigns by right-wing groups, on social media, and in the press. …

            Israeli media outlets also played a crucial role in spreading these lies. Hundreds of news items presented baseless claims against Breaking the Silence, most of the time without any fact checking, to the point that it felt as if a number of media outlets had themselves become the voice of the government. The incitement bore fruit, and the harassment and real threats against — as well as attempts to attack — members of the organization have reached a fever pitch.

            Meanwhile our ability to work within the formal and informal education system — where much of our work is done — is being stifled. We are happy to say that many educators have insisted on continuing to invite us to give lectures to teenagers. In fact, when it comes to our educational activities, these last few months have been our busiest ever.

            Alongside these successes, it has been extremely difficult to come to terms with the fact that for the past year and a half, right-wing moles have been operating among a number of human rights organizations. Armed with hidden cameras and well-trained by former members of the Shin Bet, these spies pretended to be volunteers and took part in our activities for many months. Suddenly we discovered that people we thought were our friends were actually being paid by one of the most extreme right-wing groups in the country, the Samaria Settler Council, so that they could record our private conversations. This method, directly out of the playbook of non-democratic regimes, is meant to sow fear and suspicion among activists, and thus to destroy the anti-occupation community from within….’

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “This is the kind of contemptible smear job” -> what on earth are you talking about ? they did it on camera. Do you understand what ‘on camera’ means ? do you understand how sensitive information like that can be used against Israeli soldiers ? or are you really this stupid ?
            “try to pin on BtS” -> so they were not people from Breaking the Silence ? they were moles ? is that what you’re trying to say ? please clarify so I’ll know if you’re lying or just don’t get what ‘caught on camera’ means.
            “Ido’s attempt to slander is explained here” -> nope, no mention of BtS people trying to learn sensitive classified information from soldiers, data that can be used by Israel’s enemies. You are yet to address the post (which I repeated 3 times) about how and why their methods and practices are problematic. What BtS are doing is slander. They are a foreign funded anti-Israel smear campaign designed to take individual cases of wrongdoing which the IDF didn’t approve of an individual soldier doing and instead of bringing it to court as legally required in case of wrongdoing, brings it to the court of public opinion instead presented as something the IDF sanctions.

            Copy/pasting the article won’t somehow change that. It also isn’t a substitute to you addressing my posts and evidence.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            This is such ineptitude, such cooked up baloney (“sensitive information…did it on camera…used to hurt israeli soldiers”) in regards to the actual perp–a conniving right wing Israeli Jewish mole who surreptitiously filmed an internal conversation in passing of some kind to try to produce a lame gotcha! moment on camera–that I just have to laugh. Oooooh, then why were these supposedly nefarious plotters against the safety of israeli soldiers not prosecuted for this terrible treason by your patriotic hearthrob, Ayalet Shaked? You have become a joke. I stand by everything said to date and nothing you have said does anything but expose your conniving. WHERE’S THE BEEF?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            1.
            IDO: “They have been collecting data and…handing it over to Israel’s enemies, among others. They did so on camera.”

            You really are quite shameless. Ido, to what “enemy” did Breaking the Silence “hand over” troop movements or whatever bullshit you’re concocting. To what “enemy” did they “hand over” anything? Do tell. You‘re shamelessly lying about this. (Telling an intentional falsehood.) You should choose your words much more carefully, Ido.

            2.
            IDO: ‘“why would these moles be operative” -> um, to gather information which ‘Breaking the Silence’ doesn’t want to be gathered ? was that a serious question ?’

            So, there is first of all the issue of one’s own countrymen spying on themselves and serving as informers, in a supposedly liberal democratic state, not a totalitarian East German style state, but that grave issue aside, I don’t understand, Ido. You tell us that Breaking the Silence so obviously lies, and if so, why, it simply cannot be beyond the Shabak’s and Military Intelligence’s vaunted capabilities to easily investigate these testimonies and find the truth, can it? Without any spying by amateur volunteers. So what gives? Why is the IDF so afraid of actually investigating and then prosecuting these horrible, horrible lying, deluded soldiers for treason? Or simply exposing the lies and being done with it. It has never happened. Could it be that the IDF knows these soldiers are actually breaking the silence truthfully? Where’s the beef? What gives? (The questions are rhetorical, their answers obvious.) It simply does not add up. No way, no how.

            3.
            IDO: “evidence”

            WHAT “evidence,” Ido? WHERE’S THE BEEF? You’re the one making the extraordinary claim. You’re the one claiming that Israel produces an extraordinary number of traitors among its soldiers, traitors willing to lie about their own army; or soldiers so stupid and confused they are easily seduced by traitorous mountebanks lurking in the echelons—in which case you are making the extraordinary claim that Israel produces a bizarre number of stupid soldiers and traitorous lurking mountebanks. These are extraordinary claims. Requiring extraordinary evidence. The burden of proof is on you. You have to prove it’s true, and Channel 10 popular propaganda don’t cut it. Again, see:
            https://972mag.com/the-idf-spreads-a-lie-and-the-israeli-press-plays-along/133493/
            I don’t have to prove it’s false. No more than I have to prove cold fusion is false or that kidnapping by extraterrestrial aliens from the asteroid belt is not going on in Kansas. And no one, not Shaked and not you, and certainly not Channel 10 have produced any proof. All Shaked has produced is evil slander, by now exposed for what it is in these pages and elsewhere.

            4.
            IDO: “Were the ones who reported the incidents viciously persecuted ? please, provide the details and evidence. Are you that dense that you don’t understand how anonymous testimonies are problematic ?”

            Excuse me? Have you read anything here? Again, see:
            https://972mag.com/political-persecution-wont-stop-us-from-breaking-our-silence/117265/
            And the ‘Related Stories’ on that page. It seems you won’t admit that you put the cart before the horse. It is persecution that historically in fact necessitated anonymity, not the other way around. All the IDF ever did was use testimonies to cover up, harass and persecute the silence breakers. I think you well know this but pretend otherwise.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            “such cooked up baloney” -> um, they asked for sensitive information about soldiers’ deployment and operations. On camera. Maybe they are not aware of the implications of this information getting into the wrong hands but “cooked up baloney” it isn’t.
            You do have the intellect and brain power to understand how this kind of information can be used by people who want to harm Israeli soldiers, right ? did I gave you too much credit for understanding this ?
            Are you claiming they didn’t ? they didn’t do this in person on camera ? please be specific so I can categorize this accordingly: a lie or stupidity. Maybe both ?
            “surreptitiously filmed an internal conversation” -> um, they were asking specifically about sensitive information in classified units. Nothing to do with human rights or occupation. They asked where the soldiers are positioned, what kind of missions are assigned to them, if they are working on the tunnels, is it operational or part of an experiment. These are the words said by Ron Zaydel, on camera. And you still fail to see how this can be used by people with access to BtS data to harm Israeli soldiers ? are you playing dumb again ?
            “try to produce a lame gotcha! moment on camera” -> I wouldn’t call it lame and I wouldn’t use the word ‘try’. I believe they stopped doing this stuff after this incident.
            “I just have to laugh” -> laugh all you want, the facts I’m stating are not going to change.
            “these supposedly nefarious plotters” -> I highly doubt they were intentionally nefarious, just not very smart.
            “your patriotic hearthrob, Ayalet Shaked” -> and you still try to connect me to her. It must really bug you that I don’t agree with her and her party’s views (including the new one). The ‘hearthrob’ bit was pathetic even by your standards and let’s face it, they are not that high to begin with.
            “You have become a joke” -> and some more projection, right after I refuted all your nonsense above, sentence after sentence. In posts you just ignored completely of course.
            “I stand by everything said to date” -> of course you do, as always you reject reality and substitute it with your own. The hell with pesky things like reality, facts and evidence.
            “WHERE’S THE BEEF?” -> where you originally ignored it, in all the posts above you just elegantly skipped.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            @Ido: You and I know this is a cooked-up smear job. You and I know they weren’t really collecting or privy to “sensitive information” to pass on to somebody, inadvertently or advertently. But you went a step further, Ido, into an outright lie. Let me quote you:

            “They have been collecting data that can be used as military intelligence on the IDF and handing it over to Israel’s enemies, among others. They did so on camera.”

            Now you are walking it back. But you are an hysterical smearer. In your hands your carefully worded “can be” in the last post (yet still all to slippery and sleazy, frankly, because you know this is cooked up garbage to smear and persecute BtS) became something else. And this is how hysteria and slander work. And you are an eager participant. That makes you in my eyes a kind of betrayer and devious underminer, for political purposes, of these good Israeli soldiers of Breaking the Silence. You’ll see it differently but that’s how I see you and I don’t care what excuses you come up with after the fact. In your eagerness, you did it.

            To what “enemy” did Breaking the Silence “hand over” troop movements or whatever bullshit you’re concocting. To what “enemy” did they “hand over” anything? Do tell. You should choose your words much more carefully, Ido. But you did not choose them carefully because that’s how innuendo and slander work, in stages of hysterical escalation. And you are its eager participant.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): 1. “To what “enemy” did they “hand over” anything?” -> to anyone with access to their info who is looking to harm Israeli soldiers. If they are stupid enough to collect this data, that you can’t deny they do,
            they are dumb enough to not realize the implications of collecting and posting it. Hamas are great fans and used their testimonies in the past.

            2. “issue of one’s own countrymen spying on themselves” -> seriously ? um, you think this never happens ? in any other country on earth ? I believe the US holds some kind of record on spying on their own people. Not like China but they are the shining beacon of democracy. Are you 5 years old ? US intelligence isn’t spying on domestic groups which pose some kind of danger ? never happened, right ?
            “I don’t understand, Ido” -> then you are stupider than I thought.
            “easily investigate these testimonies” -> um, because they are anonymous ? those that weren’t were looked into, as I said. Seriously ? are you that stupid ?
            And like I said: no one denies that there are acts committed by IDF soldiers that are not strictly kosher. In fact it’s almost inevitable since that’s the case in virtually every army at any time anywhere. Their methods and how they present this is the problem.
            I only repeated this 3 or 4 times so I understand why you’re still struggling with this.
            “Or simply exposing the lies” -> some of the non-anonymous ones were exposed as lies or were impossible to validate. I already said this. You must have forgotten.
            “Where’s the beef?” -> where you left it, up there at the posts you ignored.

            3. “WHAT “evidence,” Ido?” -> I believe I already posted the investigative report in question and I assumed you understood what ‘on camera’ means. I guess not.
            “produces an extraordinary number of traitors” -> so you apparently have no clue how many members they have. ‘extraordinary’ doesn’t come to mind exactly. I believe last time I checked they were less than 20 people.
            “traitors willing to lie about their own army” -> ah you mean the soldiers ? I already explained this to you 3 times. Never mind the questionable nature of the anonymous testimonies, they are not traitors. The problem is what BtS are doing. I’ll just repeat it for a 4th time:
            No one denies that there are acts committed by IDF soldiers that are not strictly kosher. In fact it’s almost inevitable since that’s the case in virtually every army at any time anywhere. The army, is like society. There are also civilian Israelis who don’t keep the law.
            The thing is that this is the case everywhere. The US, France, Russia etc. There will always be individuals who commit crimes within a system that operates by law. But that doesn’t reflect on the system as a whole.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “Breaking Silence” is a foreign funded anti-Israel smear campaign designed to take individual cases of wrongdoing which the IDF didn’t approve of an individual soldier doing and instead of bringing it to court as legally required in case of wrongdoing, brings it to the court of public opinion instead presented as something the IDF sanctions.

            “and Channel 10 popular propaganda don’t cut it” -> of course not, because you disagree with their findings. What a shock.
            “Again, see:” -> Again, irrelevant, as I said before.

            4. “Excuse me? Have you read anything here?” -> nope, this is you twisting again what I said. I gave you examples of people coming forward with information about soldiers breaking the law, proving you wrong. You bring me as example BtS themselves while again ignoring that the problem is with what they do and how after I explained this repeatedly.
            That’s why people are angry at them. They are a foreign funded smear campaign, taking individual cases of wrongdoing which the IDF didn’t approve of and instead of bringing it to court as legally required in case of wrongdoing, brings it to the court of public opinion instead presented as something the IDF sanctions. That’s the problem with them if you still didn’t grasp this after I banged you over the head with it 4 times now.
            “in fact necessitated anonymity” -> it’s also necessitated when you don’t want said testimony to be validated.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 3): “You and I know this is a cooked-up smear job” -> you didn’t answer a single question, you didn’t address the post I repeated 4 times about why their methods are problematic.
            You want to discuss smear jobs ? “Breaking Silence” is a foreign funded anti-Israel smear campaign designed to take individual cases of wrongdoing which the IDF didn’t approve of an individual soldier doing and instead of bringing it to court as legally required in case of wrongdoing, brings it to the court of public opinion instead presented as something the IDF sanctions.
            “You and I know they weren’t really collecting” -> I know you are wrong by saying that and I have the evidence to prove it. On camera no less. Like I said, I highly doubt they were intentionally nefarious, just not very smart.
            The evidence is undeniable: they were asking specifically about sensitive information in classified units. Nothing to do with human rights or occupation. They asked where the soldiers are positioned, what kind of missions are assigned to them, if they are working on the tunnels, is it operational or part of an experiment. Why are you making yourself look like a joke ? are you saying none of this happened ?
            Yes, they were collecting information. Very clearly so. So can I classify this as an INTENTIONALLY false statement or just chalk this one up for your usual denial of reality ?
            “Now you are walking it back” -> nope, I’m not. This is you again pulling nonsense out of your ass about what I said in a pathetic attempt to salvage something, not sure what.
            “your carefully worded “can be”” -> um, what ? this is your “technique” now ? what I said is right there, I never said they were selling intel knowingly to Hamas or such. Yes, it can be used to harm soldiers, this is self evident if you have an IQ above 40.
            “became something else” -> nope, this is you lying again. Very pathetically so.
            “And this is how hysteria and slander work” -> and you’re throwing in some more projection about yourself back at me. The usual.
            “That makes you in my eyes a kind of betrayer” -> this pathetic attempt of yours to project this nonsense back at me makes you a fool in my eyes. The posts are right there above, why are you making a fool of yourself like this ?
            “To what “enemy” did Breaking the Silence “hand over”” -> anyone with access to their information who is looking to harm IDF soldiers. You didn’t know BtS are darlings of the anti-Israel crowd ? Hamas use their info, you know, the Islamic Jihadists who call for the elimination of Israel and the death of Jews ?
            “You should choose your words much more carefully, Ido” -> you should stop lying and avoiding my posts and evidence.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            You make an extraordinary claim. A claim that if not backed up is pure slander. You have not backed it up. Go ahead, prove that Breaking the Silence “handed over” “sensitive information” to “enemies.” You used the words “handed over.” That means a deliberate act of treason already committed. You are walking it back now by sneakily re-framing your words to make what you are accusing them of sound like something accidental, inept, in the future, and potential (“to anyone with access to their info who is looking to harm”) but in your original words you clearly implied
            (1) they “handed over” (past tense, and implying a direct recipient) something with treasonous intent (your offense of slander),
            (2) and you by the way manufactured that out of the mere asking, by Israeli Jews to Israeli Jews in an internal conversation, of questions, as if, absurdly, that in itself involved dissemination, in a published BtS report, of troop movements and operational plans (one of your sneaky tricks used to cook up the slander).
            This is how slander works. With incremental escalation and de-escalation. “Oh, I didn’t mean *that* don’t be silly…all I meant was….” Very Klughaftian of you. (See above: ‘Behind this strategy is one of Education Minister Naftali Bennett’s closest advisors, Moshe Klughaft, whose goal is quite simple: “We must always try slander, because things stick.”’)

            As I told you, I don’t care what excuses you manufacture after the fact. Everything you write is an after the fact wriggling away from your original statement. You engaged in classic slander. And you illustrated just how it is done. You gave us the recipe. You eagerly participate. And in this way you participate in the persecution of Breaking the Silence. And so you illustrate exactly why Breaking the Silence had to go outside, in English, to non-Israelis. Because of just what you participated in here. After years of no one listening or in fact listening only in order to turn around and persecute and silence the silence breakers. Thanks for helping me so much to make my point, Ido. I don’t know what I would do without you.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): “You have not backed it up” -> Again: many anti-Israel organizations are big fans of BtS, the information they collect has been used in the past by big fans of Israel like Hamas:
            https://bit.ly/2s2Fe7j
            It’s basic common sense that other organizations, similarly big fans of Israel, can also read the same testimonies.
            Even low level classified information like what forces are stationed where and at what times can be used as part of intelligence gathering on IDF operations and schedule.
            “prove that Breaking the Silence “handed over” “sensitive information” to “enemies.”” -> Again: I didn’t say they knowingly gave classified military intel to terrorist organizations, I said the data they collected can be used as military intelligence. Their info was readily available to anyone
            among them some organizations who will gladly use this information to plan their next attack/kidnapping/bombing/etc.

            “You used the words “handed over.”” -> so Hamas lied when they claimed they based their information on BtS’s data ? when they post it on their site they hand it to anyone who can read it. I repeatedly said they didn’t knowingly give classified intel to terrorist organizations.
            I specifically said that I highly doubt they were intentionally nefarious about this.

            “You are walking it back now” -> How is explaining what I said, repeatedly, is “walking it back” ?
            “like something accidental, inept” -> you mean what I have been saying since the first post you mostly ignored ?
            “and you by the way manufactured” -> dates, rank, deployment location and mission goals, etc, was part of the readily available information on their site.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “by Israeli Jews to Israeli Jews” -> I have to ask: are you that childishly naive that you think because someone is a Jew he won’t harm another Jew ? just to determine the level of stupidity I’m dealing with here. I hope this question is not too complicated for you like the rest you ignored.
            “used to cook up the slander” -> you are now ignoring what I said about BtS for a 5th time, regarding why their methods are problematic and why what they do is slander. Why they are a foreign funded smear campaign. Why is that ? I’m not asking you to address the other posts you ignored, like the one with the 4 links to the various articles on this site where I show the writers’ integrity and honesty, but on the subject at hand, BtS.
            “one of Education Minister Naftali Bennett’s closest advisors” -> Irrelevant nonsense is still irrelevant.
            “you manufacture after the fact” -> this is especially rich coming from someone who not only skips and ignored posts and evidence but as I proved so many times in the past is a clueless liar who doesn’t know what he’s talking about. A classic ‘Useful Idiot’ who refuses to acknowledge reality which contradicts his delusions.
            “you participate in the persecution of Breaking the Silence” -> still waiting for you to address the post about why their methods and and how they act is the problem.
            “had to go outside, in English, to non-Israelis” -> what are you talking about ? that was what they did from day 1. Got to earn those foreign funded checks.
            “Thanks for helping me so much to make my point” -> thank you for again ignoring my posts, again lying and twisting what I said, again talking nonsense and changing the subject. The usual.
            “don’t know what I would do without you” -> you took the words out of my mouth. You’re like a gift that keeps on giving.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            As I told you, I don’t care what excuses you manufacture after the fact. It’s clear as day now that you engage in base slander of your countrymen and anyone can see that, caught out, you are walking it back now—sort of, temporarily, but not really actually (see below).

            It’s of interest here because you are both representative and, because by virtue of your, um, special qualities, you expose the actual lineaments of the matter.

            Anyone with a basic knowledge of English knows what “handed over sensitive information to enemies” means. Both literally, and as an insinuation with intent to slander. And what followed from you after that is the icing on the cake, the second level of proof of intent.

            Ido: “that was what they did from day 1. Got to earn those foreign funded checks.”

            So, Ido FIRST waved his hands and did his song and dance about “oh, I didn’t really mean *that*,” THEN here actually doubles down on slander. In two parts. In the first half of this contemptible, slanderous, weirdly anti-Semitic concoction he peddles a falsehood about the timing of when BtS began speaking outside Israel, and in the second half of that statement he eagerly indulges in the appalling Herr Stürmer-style “they do it for filthy lucre” slander.
            https://972mag.com/watch-the-most-anti-semitic-israeli-cartoon-ever-made/102698/

            And on top of all that, Ido strikingly exposes the emptiness at the core of his allegations. Remember, the core of Ido’s allegation is that troop movements and ranks and such were supposedly “handed over.” And yet, when asked to put up or shut up, all Ido can come up with is this:

            “the information they collect has been used in the past by big fans of Israel like Hamas”

            And what is this “information”? Is it troop movements? Ranks? Deployments? Positions? Mobilizations? Nothing of the sort. According to the link Ido supplies, it’s testimonies by sixty officers and soldiers of alleged war crimes during Operation Protective Edge in Gaza, including allegations of indiscriminate fire on civilian targets.

            Let me make this simple. First, Ido goes on and on about troop movements and such but at the last minute withdraws the bait and switches to reports of war crimes. Where’s the beef? We were supposed to be scandalized by operational details handed over to Hamas.

            Secondly, Ido is asserting that reporting war crimes is tantamount to treason. Now, there are certainly armies in the past and the not too distant past in which reporting war crimes was tantamount to treason, but I had not expected the Israeli army, “the most moral,” and its defenders like Ido, to subscribe to that notion.

            (It will predictably be said: Well why didn’t they report war crimes up the chain of command first? They did. Over and over. They weren’t listened to and they were told, in a thousand ways direct and indirect, to be quiet. That’s why it’s called “Breaking the Silence.”)

            As I said, I owe Ido a debt for helping so much to make the points that need making. This quite exposes the nature of the attempts to slander Breaking the Silence.

            There is no substitute for authenticity.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): What on earth are you talking about ? what ‘after the fact’ ? what excuses ? where do you pull this nonsense from ? you just elegantly again skipped what I said and manufacture your own nonsense instead.
            What’s clear as day is how you again ignored what I said, again ignored the evidence I provided. Again refused to answer my questions.
            “you are walking it back now” -> why are you lying when the posts are right there above ? do I need to repeat this for a 5th or 6th time ? OK then: I didn’t say they knowingly gave classified military intel to terrorist organizations, I said the data they collected can be used as military intelligence.
            I repeatedly said they didn’t knowingly give classified intel to terrorist organizations. Cry slander until you cry yourself to sleep, the posts are not going to change. And of course again you ignored what I said about BtS and how what they are doing is slander but that’s like saying the sun is hot.
            “Anyone with a basic knowledge of English knows what “handed over sensitive information to enemies”” -> anyone who can read can see how groups like Hamas used their data. I specifically explained this like to a challenged person, how this is done. Very, very clearly in the post above.

            “with intent to slander” -> what are you talking about ? how about addressing the fact that they post information like dates, rank, deployment location and mission goals, which all can be used as intel. How is pointing fact “slander” ?
            ““oh, I didn’t really mean *that*,”” -> you’re lying again.
            “actually doubles down on slander” -> where do you take this idiotic nonsense from ? I did nothing of the sort. The posts are right there. How many times have I clarified this to you ? are you that stupid ? how about actually addressing the evidence I provided ? the fact that I’m right about what information they share ?
            “weirdly anti-Semitic” -> now you’re getting to the crazy nonsense bit. Which is my favorite.
            “appalling Herr Stürmer-style” -> Again, what on earth are you talking about ? they are funded by foreign governments and organizations, You think it’s anti-semitic to assume they need to earn their funding ? they have been active abroad and in English since the beginning.
            What on earth does this link with the cartoon has anything to do with this ? and they have been active abroad for more than 10 years.

            more to follow.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “were supposedly “handed over.”” -> and if you bothered to actually read their site, you would see that is the case or at least was a couple of years ago when I did.
            “it’s testimonies by sixty officers and soldiers of alleged war crimes” -> are you really that stupid ? so you think if they can get that information they couldn’t get the rest of it which was readily available ? are you serious ?
            do I really need to spell this out for you ?
            “last minute withdraws the bait and switches to reports of war crimes” -> nope, I gave you evidence of Hamas using their data. You are apparently too stupid to understand if they are using this information they can easily use the rest.
            “Where’s the beef?” -> in all the sections of the posts you again ignored. Start with what I have been repeating for about 7 times now, why their methods are the problem. How what they are doing is slander. How they are a foreign funded smear campaign.
            “Ido is asserting that reporting war crimes is tantamount to treason” -> I did nothing of the sort, where do you pull this idiotic nonsense from ?
            “but I had not expected the Israeli army, “the most moral,”” -> ah! you pulled that lying nonsense to compare the IDF to “armies in the distant past”. Very smooth.
            And I specifically said the soldiers weren’t traitors, apparently “they are not traitors” was too vague and difficult for you to understand.
            “That’s why it’s called “Breaking the Silence.”” -> prove it. You made a claim, now back it up.
            “I owe Ido a debt for helping so much to make the points that need making” -> lie to yourself as much as you like, ignore the posts over and over again, twist and squirm around what I say. It won’t change reality.

            more to follow

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 3): “the attempts to slander Breaking the Silence” -> Again, 8th time:

            Breaking the Silence takes testimonies from combat soldiers in the IDF. They take a large number of testimonies. By their own admission, they cherry-pick the ones that cast the IDF in a negative light and publish/publicize those with the stated goal of “ending the occupation”, which of course has little to do with how individual low-ranking soldiers act.
            Their testimonies are anonymous, and some of the ones that aren’t were exposed as lies. This does not bode well for their credibility, but beyond that it’s called slander/libel, and would be illegal in almost any country.
            They have been collecting data that can be used as military intelligence on the IDF and handing it over to Israel’s enemies, among others. The did so on camera.
            In other countries this would be regarded as close to treason.
            “a collection of personal anecdotes are not a replacement for scientific research”. This group, however, acts like it is. No one denies that there are acts committed by IDF soldiers that are not strictly kosher. In fact it’s almost inevitable since that’s the case in virtually every army at any time anywhere. The army, is like society. There are also civilian Israelis who don’t keep the law.
            The thing is that this is the case everywhere. The US, France, Russia etc. There will always be individuals who commit crimes within a system that operates by law. But that doesn’t reflect on the system as a whole.
            “Breaking Silence” is a foreign funded anti-Israel smear campaign designed to take individual cases of wrongdoing which the IDF didn’t approve of an individual soldier doing and instead of bringing it to court as legally required in case of wrongdoing, brings it to the court of public opinion instead presented as something the IDF sanctions.

            And how about addressing the posts you repeatedly ignored ? about this site’s writers’ honesty and integrity ? the evidence I provided ? about B’Tselem who base their info on Hamas’ lies ? why is this so difficult for you ?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Advisory to the uninitiated: It has been my experience that Ido has an even less substantive and more clichéd reply than usual when he pulls out “What on earth are you talking about?” Or its angrier version, “What the hell are you talking about?” The verbosity in three parts covers the lack of substance. Substance varies in inverse proportion to the number of words used.

            Additional advisory: Ido’s unswerving technique is the tedious line-item diatribe. Phrase by bite-size phrase. By all indications he can’t break free of it into a genuine answer or a more complex thought. So hackneyed and twisty and dried out, the same ol’ same ol’, that it bears the same relationship to truth as a fresh porterhouse steak bears to beef jerky. Where’s the beef?

            But don’t worry folks, this jerky contains real meat byproducts!:

            “it’s called slander/libel, and would be illegal in almost any country” [Yeah? Then why hasn’t Shaked prosecuted them—because she’s such a nice lady? Because Bibi has such a refined sense of justice and ethics? LoL] …
            “They have been collecting data that can be used as military intelligence on the IDF and handing it over to Israel’s enemies” [Wherrre’s the beef, Ido? As opposed to the slanderous byproduct?] …
            “this would be regarded as close to treason” [now it’s ‘close to treason’!]

            Ido: “…about B’Tselem who base their info on Hamas’ lies ?…”

            Ok, Ido, let’s face a few facts. Is Mr. Hagai El-Ad lying here?
            https://972mag.com/idf-doesnt-investigate-palestinian-deaths-whitewashes/139521/

            Just answer. We don’t need your usual poppycock about B’Tselem being Hamas agents. (Ido just can’t get his mind around the fact that B’Tselem focuses on human rights without taking ethnic sides. For Ido, it’s as if they are from another planet.) Just restrict yourself to the article’s allegations. I know you’d love Breaking the Silence and B’Tselem to turn over everything to the trusted hands of the MPIU, but I think Hagai makes very plain why that has not worked and why the MPIU and allied units cannot be trusted and why Breaking the Silence concluded it had to speak outside Israel. What answer have you got to this exposé of the MPIU? You gonna defend the MPIU? Really, Ido? We were born yesterday and are still in our crib?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            And of course the whole other thing behind Ido’s “Got to earn those foreign funded checks” is the more basic and base motive:

            Leave us alone, butt out; we can handle this, without nosy outsiders and the law poking around; this is ‘our thing,’ just leave us to finish the job; don’t worry your pretty liberal head about it, we got it under control, nothing to see here; go fix your own problems and mind your own business you nosy do-gooders, what business is it of yours, and I don’t see you picking on other fellows, why us, huh, what about them?, what’s your problem, huh? And by the way these rats ratting us out, they’re up to no good, they make up stuff, see?

            This is (1) the language of gangsters, and (2) contains a fallacious presupposition, i.e., that it’s an “internal” Israeli problem that Israelis ought to keep “in the family,” and it’s not the “foreigner’s” business to get involved and it’s not Israelis’ business to get outsiders involved. But of course Breaking the Silence is speaking out about things done outside Israeli sovereign territory and things done to non-Israelis by Israelis in that non-Israeli territory.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): Advisory to the uninitiated: Ben says nonsense and when asked what is he talking about he refuses to reply. He routinely lies, twists and edit out lines and post sections when he’s not completely ignoring them or evidence proving he’s wrong.
            He refuses to answer simple questions. When he is confronted with his clueless nonsense and lies he either ignores it or comes up with some of the most hilarious excuses I have ever seen. My favorite is when confronted
            with the Palestinian leadership refusal to accept the legitimacy of Israel, their call for Israel’s elimination and for the murder of Jews, he said their leaders are “not that important or influential”. The theocracy and dictatorships, literally the policy makers in control, are
            not that important or influential. This goes beyond denial to the realm of delusional disorder.
            He lies and calls repeated posts he ignores ‘lack of substance’. All can be observed on this page and many others.
            In a desperate attempt to evade my posts showing in detail how he’s a clueless liar ‘Useful Idiot’ he devised what he perceived as a brilliant strategy: demanding I re-post the same posts he ignored initially months ago and to provide the exact quote and date of his lies and clueless nonsense.
            His “strategy” backfired when I did exactly that. Ben failed his own “Test”.
            He keeps saying idiotic nonsense like “Where’s the beef?” when it is posted, in detail, sometimes for 8 repeated times, above said post.
            “Yeah? Then why hasn’t Shaked prosecuted them” -> so you didn’t know about the lawsuits ? there are more than one I believe, including one from last year or so and the one currently underway by “Reservists at the Front”, they have been collecting material for some time now.
            So far lawsuits have reached the stage where the court demanded BtS to expose their sources to validate their claims and BtS used press immunity to withhold information.
            And the government have been working on legislature dealing with BtS and similar organizations, at least 2 laws I’m familiar with: one barring their entrance to lecture at schools and another which is an addition to the defamation law allowing soldiers to sue for defamation which was approved in preliminary reading I believe last year.
            Other than that there’s not much they can do, Israel is a democracy and NGOs like BtS are allowed to operate. This is not Gaza or the West Bank or any Arab/Islamic state you know.
            “Wherrre’s the beef, Ido?” -> 4th time: in the evidence I provided. See Hamas using their data. Again: explained this like to a challenged person and you still can’t seem to grasp this.

            more to follow

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “now it’s ‘close to treason’!” -> again: what are you talking about ? where have I said anything different ? please point where. I repeatedly said, over and over again, how I highly doubt they were intentionally nefarious, just not very smart.
            Why are you making stuff up ? why are you ignoring what I actually said ? how the soldiers are not traitors ? how the problem with BtS is how they use their data and how they operate ? I repeated this 8 times, how stupid can you be ?

            “let’s face a few facts. Is Mr. Hagai El-Ad lying here” -> Again: what are you talking about ? see the evidence I provided, this has nothing to do with Be’Tselem lying about Palestinian deaths, how they add Palestinian terrorists to the ‘civilians’ category, how they ignore terrorists’ affiliations when reporting their statistics.
            I also showed you in the past how they accept Hamas’ statistics as fact when even the BBC claimed they were a fabrication (article titled “Caution needed with Gaza casualty figures”).
            This is you again evading and changing the subject. Thank you but I have enough proof of you doing this.
            “B’Tselem being Hamas agents” -> why the hell ? I never said they are Hamas agents, I said they use statistics published by Hamas without bothering to authenticate them. Reports that were later proven to be fabricated to increase the civilian casualties.
            “it’s as if they are from another planet” -> it’s as if you’re lying and twisting what I said again.
            “restrict yourself to the article’s allegations” -> restrict yourself to addressing the posts and evidence you ignored and stop evading them.
            “Breaking the Silence concluded it had to speak outside Israel” -> when exactly was that ? you make it sound as if this was a recent decision. Of course it wasn’t as I said about 3 or 4 times.
            “You gonna defend the MPIU?” -> which case ? be specific, and of course after you address the posts and evidence you ignored. Again.
            “We were born yesterday” -> this coming from someone who takes the bold face lies and “historical revisionism” of the Palestinians as fact, who believe some of the most idiotic nonsense and lies about Israel and the Palestinians, is truly comedic genius.

            more to follow

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 3): “And of course the whole other thing behind Ido’s “Got to earn those foreign funded checks”” -> you never answered, why is that ?
            I’ll ask again: You think it’s anti-semitic to assume they need to earn their funding ? you also of course never answered about the fact they have been active abroad for more than 10 years, not recently or anything remotely similar.
            “Leave us alone, butt out; we can handle this” -> how many times have you ignored this ? 9 times ? I don’t mind repeating it again:
            Breaking the Silence takes testimonies from combat soldiers in the IDF. They take a large number of testimonies. By their own admission, they cherry-pick the ones that cast the IDF in a negative light and publish/publicize those with the stated goal of “ending the occupation”, which of course has little to do with how individual low-ranking soldiers act.
            Their testimonies are anonymous, and some of the ones that aren’t were exposed as lies. This does not bode well for their credibility, but beyond that it’s called slander/libel, and would be illegal in almost any country.
            They have been collecting data that can be used as military intelligence on the IDF and handing it over to Israel’s enemies, among others. The did so on camera.
            In other countries this would be regarded as close to treason.
            “a collection of personal anecdotes are not a replacement for scientific research”. This group, however, acts like it is. No one denies that there are acts committed by IDF soldiers that are not strictly kosher. In fact it’s almost inevitable since that’s the case in virtually every army at any time anywhere. The army, is like society. There are also civilian Israelis who don’t keep the law.
            The thing is that this is the case everywhere. The US, France, Russia etc. There will always be individuals who commit crimes within a system that operates by law. But that doesn’t reflect on the system as a whole.
            “Breaking Silence” is a foreign funded anti-Israel smear campaign designed to take individual cases of wrongdoing which the IDF didn’t approve of an individual soldier doing and instead of bringing it to court as legally required in case of wrongdoing, brings it to the court of public opinion instead presented as something the IDF sanctions.

            Is this written is sanskrit ? how can you still not understand what the problem with BtS is ? especially after I explained this 9 times now ?

            more to follow

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 4): Keep lying about traitors and anti-semitism, keep making up nonsense I never said. Keep ignoring my posts and evidence, keep changing the subject: this will not change a single thing about what I said. The fact that you can’t address this is an answer all by itself.
            “that it’s an “internal” Israeli problem that Israelis ought to keep “in the family,”” -> where do you pull this idiotic nonsense from ? I never said anything of the sort, and I gave you 2 examples of soldiers reporting law breakers and inappropriate behavior and how that works out, as an example how you were wrong. You ignored it but that’s a given.
            “and it’s not the “foreigner’s” business” -> that’s not what I said, I repeated my point 10 times now, should I post it again ?
            “outside Israeli sovereign territory” -> that’s some fine mental gymnastics to try and rationalize the fact that I was right about them working abroad from early on, contradicting what you claimed. You can’t admit you were wrong can you.

            And how about addressing all the posts and evidence you still ignore to this moment ? start with the ones about the “honesty and integrity” of the writers on this news blog. Then we’ll move to you creatively modifying what I actually said to fit your delusional nonsense.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Ido Geller, fiction writer. Almost a novel now! Love these interesting characters and tedious, clotted, paranoid, hyperventilating plot twists. Now, don’t inadvertently place this in the non-fiction column, OK, buddy? I’m looking out for you. LoL.

            IDO: “so you didn’t know about the lawsuits?…”

            No, I mean, if Issacharoff, Shaul et al. are committing treason or sabotaging the IDF and undermining the security of Israeli soldiers then why aren’t they arrested and in the dock? Now. Today. Shaked has had years to prepare the case. Where’s the vaunted Shabak and military intelligence hounds on the trail? Where’s the military prosecutors? I never knew them to be shy and passive. Wassup? Where’s the government prosecution? Where’s Shaked? Could it be that she knows very well, as she’s not an idiot, that she manufactures offensive, fake, trumped-up, kangaroo court charges for political hay-making and out of vicious persecution motives? Towards her own countrymen, towards guys that served far more valiantly in uniform than she ever did? Ya think? And that if anyone should be in the dock it is her, for crafty obstruction of justice.
            You can’t explain, Ido, why Shaked doesn’t have these guys in the dock. You cannot. You’re so evidently full of it that becomes a cause for mirth.

            IDO: ““You gonna defend the MPIU?” -> which case ?”

            The cases Hagai El-Ad writes about in the link I helpfully provided you. Feigned ineptitude is the last refuge of the pettifogging scoundrel.

            IDO: ‘“and it’s not the “foreigner’s” business” -> that’s not what I said’

            OK, this is what you did say: “Got to earn those foreign funded checks.” Your point then being? I misunderstood you and you mean it IS non-Israelis business…but…non-Israelis can’t fund free speech about it….? Come again? I wanna help you, man, in your mighty struggle for a straight thought.

            IDO: “Is this written is sanskrit ? ”

            No it’s written in tediously regurgitated English that contains nothing new (nichts Neues). And I would advise you to keep your day job while you pursue your fiction-writing career.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 1): What can I say ? you’re the one who is supplying me with so much material, so much clueless nonsense and lies. I also reply to everything you say, unlike you, either ignoring post after post, selectively edit out lines or manufacture your own take on what I said which has nothing to do with what I actually said. Or you just change the subject. Many examples in the posts above.
            “I’m looking out for you. LoL” -> how about looking for the posts you ignored again ? for your clueless nonsense which I very clearly lined out for you ? for the evidence you keep ignoring ?
            “why aren’t they arrested and in the dock” -> fine then, I’ll just repeat the post you just ignored:
            there are more than one I believe, including one from last year or so and the one currently underway by “Reservists at the Front”, they have been collecting material for some time now.
            So far lawsuits have reached the stage where the court demanded BtS expose their sources to validate their claims and BtS used press immunity to withhold information.
            And the government have been working on legislature dealing with BtS and similar organizations, at least 2 laws I’m familiar with: one barring their entrance to lecture at schools and another which is an addition to the defamation law allowing soldiers to sue for defamation which was approved in preliminary reading I believe last year.
            Other than that there’s not much they can do, Israel is a democracy and NGOs like BtS are allowed to operate. This is not Gaza or the West Bank or any Arab/Islamic state you know.

            If this was Gaza or the West Bank they would be in “the dock”, or dead.
            “Shaked has had years to prepare the case” -> read again what I posted. At least 2 laws I’m familiar with deals with BtS and as I said, Israel is a democracy and organizations like BtS are allowed to exist. This is not an Arab state you know.
            Hell, there are Israeli Knesset members who support terrorists who call for Israel’s elimination. There are Israeli MKs who see all of Israel as “Palestine”.
            “Where’s the military prosecutors” -> In the one from 2016 it got to the point where BtS were asked by the court to reveal their sources and they called for press immunity. the IDF persecutors pulled the lawsuit after that.
            let’s see where the one headed by ‘Reservists at the Front’ will lead as I believe they are looking into the sources themselves to bypass this issue.
            We’ll just ignore you had no clue about any of this, as evident by your original post.

            more to follow

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            (part 2): “You can’t explain, Ido” -> I did I believe 10 times now, what is the issue with BtS. Safe to assume that many of their testimonies are accurate but the problem is how they operate, how they use this information. I said this, very clearly, 10 times now.
            You seem to have a very hard time dealing with this. Why is that ? would you like me to re-post it for a 11th time ? maybe you missed it ?
            “The cases Hagai El-Ad writes about” -> which as I said had absolutely nothing to do with what I posted, with my evidence, with what I said about ‘B’Tselem’, as I clarified again.
            The cases he writes about were regarding soldiers shooting on a suspected car which didn’t stop when asked to after soldiers receiving intelligence reports to be on a lookout for such a car. Another about “youths” throwing rocks at military jeeps. I hope I don’t need to remind you what those rocks can do. Second case again “youth” throwing rocks at a jeep, third case was during violent clashes with soldiers when again rocks were thrown at soldiers and the 4th case an apparently mentally handicapped guy walking with a stick
            after violent clashes with soldiers and the traditional rocks being thrown. It does looks unjustified, even if they thought the stick was a weapon.
            Now will you address the evidence you again ignored and not change the subject again ?
            “Your point then being?” -> um, they need to justify their funding. You just quoted me saying this and you asked me what I said ? I ask again, third time: you think it’s anti-semitic to assume they need to earn their funding ?
            you of course ignored the abroad thing but I would be surprised if you didn’t.
            “I wanna help you” -> are you feigning brain damage or something ? it looks like I’m not the one needing help.
            “contains nothing new” -> exactly, it contains the same point you have been ignoring for 11 times now. Why is that ? is this somehow difficult to understand ?
            “pursue your fiction-writing career” -> that’s very amusing coming from someone who either lies about what I say, manufacture your own tangents about my posts which has nothing to do with what I actually said or completely ignore my posts and evidence, like the ones about the writers of this site.
            As always I enjoy it when you finish with a hearty joke.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            As usual, a colossal waste of time. You are without a doubt one of the most devious people I’ve met anywhere, but ridiculously, forlornly transparent about it. It achieves poignance. You manage the singular trick of being obviously devious. How do you do that? A real talent.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ido

            As usual you ignored my posts, ignored how I showed in detail how you lied, how you twisted and changed what I said, how you ignored what I actually said about be’Tselem, how you still ignore my point about BtS which I repeated 10 times, how you keep changing the subject, how you refuse to address my post and evidence about this site’s writers, how you lie about what I said and you mentioned being devious ?
            Is this another manifestation of your ‘projection’ technique ?
            “It achieves poignance” -> you proved once again how you’re a prime example of the classic ‘Useful Idiot’. How you don’t let reality interfere with your delusional nonsense. How do you do that ? I’m curious at an anthropological level. Definitely a real talent which never ceases to amuse me.

            Reply to Comment
    5. Click here to load previous comments