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A dark stain on all of Judaism

Friday’s arson was a terrorist attack familiar to the likes of ISIL. Now is the time for ideas; condemnations aren’t enough. The question is not only what was said that led to the murder, but what we did not say.

By Meir Buzaglo

Palestinians in the West Bank village of Duma carry the body of 18-month-old Ali Saad Dawabshe after he was slain in an arson attack during the early hours of the morning, July 31, 2015. (Oren Ziv/Activestills.org)

Palestinians in the West Bank village of Duma carry the body of 18-month-old Ali Saad Dawabshe who was slain in an arson attack by Jewish extremists, July 31, 2015. (Oren Ziv/Activestills.org)

Perhaps if I were a better Jew, I would fast today. With every such attack by “religious” people, the wound within Judaism grows. Last summer, after Muhammad Abu Khdeir was burned alive, Rabbi Israel Maimran told me: “I am ill.”

At this moment, we condemn and let the police do the talking. But perhaps the police, and even the Shin Bet, cannot help us heal this wound. They are too little, too late. Even condemnations do not suffice.

Like in cases of domestic murders, we pass the issue onto the police. To my knowledge, they are fairly helpless. They can look for the perpetrators, use D.N.A. samples to reveal their identities — but this is not enough.

When the world battled malaria, we did not chase after every single mosquito. We must find the swamp from which they originate and dry it up. On top of this dried swamp we can establish a town based on environmentally friendly principles, which will allow us to forget that there was ever a swamp there to begin with.

In our case it seems that, first and foremost, the swamp is full of the inciters. Our next phase must be to directed against those who choose to remain silent. Friday’s arson is a terrorist attack against Arabs, but in terms of our lives here in Israel, it is more like ISIL, al-Qaida and Hamas.

We must resist the easy solutions. Claims of “I told you so, it’s those religious people,” do not suffice. Perhaps the job of the believers is to explain that these are not religious people, but rather those who besmirch God’s name.

Furthermore, we must not use this tragedy as payback against the Right. There is a fierce battle going on between the Right and Left in Israel, and it is important to make a distinction between stances one doesn’t agree with and stances that are beyond the pale.

Now is the time for ideas. Condemnations aren’t enough. The right-wing spiritual-political leadership (and perhaps that of the Left as well) must come together and take a good look at itself. The question is not only what was said that — indirectly or directly — led to the murder, but what we did not say. How can it be that we didn’t change the discourse altogether?

Rabbi Froman, who lived in the West Bank settlement Tekoa, started something important here. Today we understand that Froman wasn’t some crazy, out-of-touch rabbi. Or perhaps now we understand that out-of-touch dreamers can solve what the army or the air force cannot. Meetings between liberal Jews and moderate Muslims give us hope, but they are not enough.

No, it is not enough to say that Arabs are also humans. We need to change the whole program. Religious practices must change. We must go back to the roots, to revisit the meaning behind the concept that God is one.

Dr. Meir Buzaglo is a professor of philosophy at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. This article was first published in Hebrew on Haokets.

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    COMMENTS

    1. Pedro X

      And what colour is the stain on Islam and Palestinian society when it comes to throwing firebombs against Israelis?

      Elder of Ziyon reports that in June, 2015 Palestinians threw 98 firebombs at Israelis, 50 of them in Jerusalem. There were 129 such attacks in May, 2015.

      Over the weekend there have been a spate of firebombs thrown by Palestinians against Israelis.Today a woman received burns to 15% of her body in one attack. Two other persons were lightly injured as a result of the attack. Several Jewish homes were hit with Molotov cocktails thrown by Palestinians. A firebomb was thrown at a home on Meir Nakar Street in Jerusalem. Arab rioters threw a firebomb at the “Beit Hashiva” Jewish residence in the Arab majority Beit Hanina neighborhood of northeastern Jerusalem.

      Haredi singer and musician Yishai Lapidot narrowly escaped being “lynched” by Arabs in Jerusalem Saturday night when he made a wrong turn into a large mob of Arab youths who were about to attack his vehicle. His car was then attacked by dozens of Arab youths, who threw rocks and bottles at his vehicle. A group of older men were hurrying to his vehicle, carrying sticks and metal rods. He managed to turn his car around and got out.

      In Jelazoun 50 rioters threw rocks and firebombs at Israeli soldiers.

      In Shuafat neighborhood of Jerusalem firebombs and rocks were thrown at police and Border Patrol forces on Friday night.

      On Friday dozens of Israelis in the southern Hebron Hills community of Beit Hagai were evacuated from their homes after suffering from smoke inhalation sustained as a result of a brush fire that is believed to have been set by local Palestinians.
      In total, 30 people were given treatment. Fire crews worked to bring the blaze, which crept up dangerously close to the settlers’ homes, under control.
      Three people were evacuated by an ambulance, while the other victims, including a Palestinian passerby who sought to help douse the blaze, suffered light injuries.

      On Friday an Israeli car was shot three times in a drive by shooting in Judea and Samaria. Two Israelis were killed by Palestinians in shootings in Judea and Samaria in the last month.

      Of course Palestinians do not see such actions by them as staining their society. They celebrate attacks with handing out candy and sweets, rewarding terrorists with lifetime pensions and encouraging their youth to emulate such actions.

      Reply to Comment
    2. Pedro X

      In late June a 70 year old Israeli man was viciously beaten to death by two Arabs from the West Bank who doused the Israeli man with pesticides.

      Arutz Sheva reported:

      “A day afterwards, the terrorists approached the vineyard between Pedaya and Carmei Yosef in central Israel in the morning, where they saw Bar Kapara selling grapes.

      Mujahid, who had worked with Bar Kapara and therefore was familiar with his business practices, estimated that the elderly farmer had cash on him from the grape sales. They approached him and Mujahid demanded money from him.

      Bar Kapara in response asked who they were, according to the testimony of the murderers, and then shouted “thieves.” At this point, Mujahid covered Bar Kapara’s mouth with a piece of cloth, and then the two brutally beat him with their hands as well as with a stick they found nearby.

      The two continued beating him on the head and on his body until he fell to the ground, after which they continued raining blows down upon him, until the stick broke from the force of the hits.

      During the attack, Mujahid dumped pesticide that was at the scene on Bar Kapara.

      After their victim fell and lost consciousness, the murderers searched his body for money but allegedly only found a chain of keys. They then placed a mattress over the critically wounded man and fled the scene without calling for medical attention.

      Once Bar Kapara was found he was brought to a hospital for treatment, but it was too late and he died of his wounds there.

      The two are accused of intentional murder in addition to other crimes.”

      Where was the outrage of right thinking people?

      Reply to Comment
    3. Dave Kreiselman

      What is this “dark stain on Judaism” nonsense? I don’t see why the rest of us should pick up the slack for your dramas. No, I’m afraid you own this, lock, stock and barrel. “Dark stain upon Israel and all the Jewish inhabitants thereof” is more like it.

      Reply to Comment
      • Mike Panzone

        Thank you, dave. Israel is not equivalent to judaism. But unfortunately it seems israelis have hijacked judaism.

        Reply to Comment
        • Gustav

          No, Israel is not Judaism. Now let’s see where diaspora Jews are likely to end up seeking sanctuary if things become too hote for them where they live because of their Jewishness?

          Anyone cares to guess?

          Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Hot

            Reply to Comment
          • Dave Kreiselman

            Chelm called. They want their idiot back. Phone home.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            So you are saying that the days of persecution for Jews are over? It will never happen again? They only hate Israeli Jews now?

            I hope you are right Dave dear, for your sake. We can take their hatred.

            Reply to Comment
          • Dave Kreiselman

            Hey Gustav, what can I say? Not all of us are cut out to be a cringing, shtetl Jew. It’s almost dark. You better get back to Anatevka before the Cossacks rape your wife. 😉

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Hey Dave, deary. You are the one who is confused. You are the one who lives in Anatevka, you just don’t know it yet. The Jews of France are becoming aware of it and they are beginning to make Aliyah so that they can be at a place (here in Israel) where they can fight back instead of being shot up for the crime of being Jewish.

            Sleep on blissfully Dave. I hope you won’t have to wake up to reality one day and have to eat your inane words.

            Reply to Comment
          • Mike Panzone

            Yes i get it. Lots of these poor jewish souls end up in israel. And israel has made room for these diaspora jews by displacing palestinians and taking their land, thus creating another group of displaced, persecuted people.

            Israelis have proven finally that jews are indeed equal to their european and middle eastern persecutors…equally racist, equally xenophobic, equally vile, etc.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “jews are indeed equal to their european and middle eastern persecutors…equally racist, equally xenophobic, equally vile, etc.”

            So we are all racist and vile now, Mike? Any decent people out there in your humble opinion? And if so, who are they?

            Reply to Comment
          • Wedding Singer

            @Mike, do you believe your own bullshit?

            Reply to Comment
          • Mike Panzone

            @Wedding singer
            So its bullshit? You mean israelis have not displaced palestinians and taken their land for settlements and israelis have not created another group of displaced, persecuted people?

            @Gustav
            Uh well Yes there are many good people in the world…but those people certainly aren’t european, middle eastern, and israeli persecutors of other groups of people.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            I know Mike, the decent people are Palestinian Arabs, right? They have never harmed a fly. They are just innocent victims and we are just picking on them. They have not fought a 100 year war against us right?

            PS
            Have you read up about Petach Tikva yet?

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petah_Tikva

            “Petah Tikva was founded in 1878…

            …the settlers purchased a modest area (3.40 square kilometres (1.31 sq mi)) from the village of Mulabbis (variants: Mlabbes, Um-Labbes), near the source of the Yarkon River. The Sultan allowed the enterprise to proceed, but because their purchase was located in what was a malarial swamp…

            …The first recorded Arab attack on Jews in what would become Israel took place in Petah Tikva in 1886.[5] Petah Tikva was also the scene of Arab rioting in May 1921, which left four Jews dead…[6]

            …In the early 1920s, industry began to develop in the Petah Tikva region. In 1921, Petah Tikva was given the status of a local council by the British authorities, and in 1937 it was recognized as a city”

            Reply to Comment
      • Marnie

        Exactly right. Now if the Jews outside Israel would come together and agree that what is done in Israel is an abomination of Judaism and sever their ties, either physical or emotional, to the zionist state then we’ll all be better for it.

        Reply to Comment
    4. Judd

      I was a student of Professor Buzaglo’s in the early 1990’s. He is a brilliant and very kind man. What he says here is true. These acts, indeed the whole nation of Israel, requires a complete change of language, in order to build a healthy civilization. The assassination of Itzhak Rabin was the bullet that sent me back to America. I fear there are forces in Israel that will continue to prey upon those interested in peace. So I left. And I council my friends to leave. The Jewish people are not ready for their homeland. Our numbers can be reduced dramatically by war or secular disinterest in Jewish identity. It does not matter. From a tiny seed we may grow again. Or may not.

      Reply to Comment
      • Gustav

        On Rabin’s assassination, we agree. That was an unforgivable crime. And the bastard who did it, Igal Amir, is still rotting in jail for it.

        Having said that, I have to say that even though at the time, I supported what Rabin did, in hindsight, it was a mistake. Arafat double crossed Rabin. Following the signing of the Oslo accords…

        1. Terrorism against us increased sharply. That wasn’t a good start.

        2. Arafat started systematically murdering many Palestinian Arabs who cooperated with Israel prior to that. He called them collaborators and we let him do it. That was a big mistake. After that, why would any Palestinian cooperate with us again?

        Anyways, 20/20 vision in hindsight is always easy. Rabin didn’t have much of a choice, he had to give peace a chance. But now we know better. We need to keep the PA leadership accountable and rather be suspicious of them from the beginning till they prove to us that they keep their side of any bargain. Never take them for granted again!

        Reply to Comment
    5. Dave Kreiselman

      Okey dokey Gustav. Listen to me. You’re wallowing in your own crap. This whole twisted, paranoid, victimhood thing is your hang up. Not mine. Just so you know. I can walk out of my house at 2:00am, stand in the middle of the goddamm street in nothing but a jock strap and belt out at the top of my lungs; “I am a f**kin’ Jew bastard and I want everyone to know it!” You know what would happen? One of my Christian white supremacist / Muslim radical / High Caste Hindu neighbors will stick his head out the door and scream; “Hey Kreiselman, stfu and go to bed”

      Reply to Comment
      • Gustav

        Yep Davey boy, you just keep on repeating that to yourself like a frightened little kid who is afraid in the dark.

        And as I said, and I sincerely meant it, I hope you don’t wake up one day from your blissful sleep and have to eat your inane words. Because of course, the scary story that I have been telling you has never happened before, has it? Times were good and then they turned bad, that is just a figment of my feverish paranoid imagination right, Davey boy?

        Did you know that Jews used to have it good in Spain before the days of the inquisition? And the assimilated Jews of Germany too were not too badly off. And… nah, I’ll stop there, you will never believe me anyways and in any case, I hope you will turn out to be right and I am wrong.

        …but what was I saying about the Jews in France? Ah… never mind…

        Reply to Comment
        • Dave Kreiselman

          Where I come from we have a saying; “Show me a man who sounds like a character out a Damon Runyon musical and I’ll show you a man who couldn’t find his own ass in a dark bathroom with both hands and a flashlight. Lol.

          So what’s your story, dipstick? Probably the usual cliché. Let me guess. You’re an oleh from someplace where you were the recipient of regularly scheduled beatings (whether you deserved them or not, lol) by the local anti-semites? Made aliyah? Went to Jerusalem? Bought into the whole Kahanist shtick while at Aish HaTorah or some other madrasa? Got corn holed by an overly pious Rebbe, saw G-d and ended up in some Hilltop shithole? No? Please excuse me, I was misinformed. Lol

          So what did ya’ do in the Army? I only ask because it’s been my experience that this whole “defender of the faith, protector of the realm” bit that you’re so fond of, is generally used by holocaust-revenge fantasizing Walter Mitty types trying to compensate for, shall we say, inadequacies in other areas? So what were you, a jobnik someplace? Sharpening pencils in a shalishut rashit? A driver for the gedood? Maybe you were scrubbing tsirim in the mitbach? No? Sorry. I really must do a better job checking my sources. Lol.

          Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “So what’s your story, dipstick?”

            What did I do in the army? Ya don’t wanna know ya loud mouth shit head. One thing is for sure, I did not go out in the Middle of the night in my jockstraps and yelled at the top of my head like you do in your mind’s eye in your walter mitty fantasy world, you jerk.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Why do I get this feeling that Davey boy here is yet another reincarnation of Benny? I smell Benny, does any one else smell tho odor of Benny wafting down the ether?

            Helloooooo, Benny dear..is Davey Boy here a replacement of your favorite MuslimJew persona? What a jerk…

            Reply to Comment
          • Dave Kreiselman

            I see you’re upset. Ain’t I a peach? Lol

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Yes Benny dear, LOL.

            Reply to Comment
          • Marnie

            This is too funny. You see Ben everywhere Gustav. Reminds me of the halcyon days of Ginger and Merav, Merav accusing people of being obsessed with Ginger, defeated by her amazing arguments, trapped by her superior powers, yawn. It sure is funny how the table has turned and the pot is calling the kettle black. Cue sock puppets! Anyone? Surely PedroX or “Electric Avenue” will have a timely retort and rescue Gustav from committing further foot in mouth faux pas?

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Now Marnie is going to tell me that it is a coincidence, that I have a singular talent of attracting idiots because I offend them. So let’s test that theory, shall we?

            I offended Davey/Benny because I said that Israel is a place of sanctuary for persecuted Jews? Nah, that isn’t offensive. So that theory is out.

            I’ll tell you what isn’t out though. I have a way of detecting the Bennies behind the MuslimJews and Daveys and other aliases of his. But I won’t tell you what that secret is because it would enable him to disguise himself better.

            Wanna believe me? Ok. Don’t wanna believe me? That’s ok too.

            By the way, it is a moot point. Davey here already virtually admitted who he really is. Read his reaction to my accusation. He certainly did not deny that he is Benny. He was too pleased with himself, being the narcissist that he is, because he thought that he got me upset.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            GUSTAV:”Why do I get this feeling that Davey boy here is yet another reincarnation of Benny? I smell Benny, does any one else smell tho odor of Benny wafting down the ether?
            Helloooooo, Benny dear..is Davey Boy here a replacement of your favorite MuslimJew persona? What a jerk…”

            DAVE:”I see you’re upset. Ain’t I a peach? Lol”

            Nuff said…

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            The hilarious , sharp Dave Kreiselman is dead on target about you Gustav. He’s perspicacious. I do take pleasure in your comparing me to him.

            Reply to Comment
          • Dave Kreiselman

            Really, I’m quite flattered. While I like to think I possess an extensive vocabulary, I’ve never been called; “perspicacious”. I had to look it up. Thank you Ben. Lol

            Reply to Comment
          • Mars Mercury

            Hi Dave!
            Have you tried Maestro’s yet? To die for.

            Try not to get too caught up in Ben’s world. He is as inauthentic as they come and uses a thesaurus when he writes his postings. That’s why you see all the obscure and inappropriate words.

            You sort of stepped in it. Once you make eye contact with Ben, and much like a stray dog or a restarted child, they will tag along with you forever.

            Reply to Comment
          • Dave Kreiselman

            No, I haven’t been to Maestro’s yet. Is it that steak place in Beverly Hills? Thanks for the advice but you don’t have to worry about me. I know how to take care of myself. Flame wars, eh? It’s all fun & games until someone’s ego gets crushed. Lol

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            You stepped in nothing, Dave. Beware our resident disinformation and slander specialists. Trolls extraordinaire.

            Reply to Comment
          • Mars Mercury

            Hi Dave,
            Yes, it is on Canon across from the Mintage. I highly recommend if you are a steak guy,

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            DAVE:”I know how to take care of myself”

            No doubt you do, Davey boy. That is why you are useless to your wife in bed and that is why she is so ferocious. LOL.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            @Mars

            Read Dave’s virtual admission that he IS Benny.

            Benny and Dave are Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. Or put it another way, Dumb and Dumber.

            Benny’s persona pretends to have a serious discussion.

            His alter ego Dave does not even pretend. He just aims to dumb down the discussion.

            Both personas are here to confuse and obfuscate using different methods.

            The last thing they want is a serious discussion because they know they have no leg to stand on.

            Reply to Comment
          • Dave Kreiselman

            Look. I don’t know who you are. I don’t know who Benny is. I told you who I was. You don’t believe it. Ok. There’s not much more I can do for you. Are you aware of how you sound to rational people? This is a serious question. If you’re not on medication, you ought to be, because man, you sound completely unhinged, and I’m not kidding. I can’t in good conscience continue this exchange. You should seek help. Peace.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “Look. I don’t know who you are.”

            Correction Dave/Benny, you don’t know who YOU are.

            Make up your mind whether you want to post as Benny, semi serious but still confused, or as Dave, completely inane (just look back at your posts on this thread). Then post as one or the other but not both.

            Shalom.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “I’ve never been called; “perspicacious”

            No? Are your eyes misting over, Dave/Benny? I bet you have been called all sorts of other names though, none of them flattering. Right?

            Reply to Comment
          • Dave Kreiselman

            You know, I wasn’t gonna say anything. I enjoy watching you make a fool of yourself, but this is really too much. You sound like you bought a copy of the Torat HaMelech, dried it out, ground it into a powder, and snorted it up your nose. Lol. Seriously, you’re delusional. Tell me? What made you lose your marbles like this?

            Ok, for the sake of full disclosure and only if you promise to go back on your meds, Farshteit?

            My name is Dave Kreiselman. I am a 51 year old American-Israeli who lives with his wife and child in Los Angeles, California. I spent several years in Israel, became a citizen, was a kibbutznik, and served in the Army where I met my lovely wife, a native Israeli who hails from Kiryat Ono.

            Now for the love of G-d, take a step back from the internet, take a deep breathe and pull yourself together.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Yes, Benny dear.

            Poor old Dave/Benny changed his mind. He withdrew his earlier admission that he is Benny.

            Caught with his trousers down again. Poor old Benny.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            @Dave: FYI this is the standard distraction technique employed by Gustav and it represents the last arrow in the quiver: claim somebody else is me, I’m them, whatever. This post of mine will be “evidence.” But there’s always the paranoid aspect. The frank paranoid accuser emerges out of nowhere it seems to me when especially angry and at wit’s end. “Do you smell gas?! I smell gas! It’s Benny! Benny’s gassing me!” I caricature but not that much. When it’s this particular claim (I’m you, you’re me) it’s pleasantly amusing; but he does this paranoid thing with me and some really unpleasant characters out there and then it’s more aggressive and less funny. In my mind’s eye he is a fusion of George Costanza and Newman of Seinfeld. It’s an indelible image. If one is going to be ridiculous, in public, one has to expect ridicule. And you tapped into that and delivered, in a completely non-trivial, non-gratuitous way, a skewering so accurate and funny it can’t be improved upon. What a breath of fresh air. I’m flattered Gustav judges me up to it.

            P.S.: I have a very good friend in Kiryat Ono and was there only recently.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Poor poor Benny, acting agrieved and talking to his alter ego.

            Have a good conversation, tweedle dee and tweedle dum. And don’t forget to look back on the beginning of this conversation and how it developed. It will clearly show who acted as a bafoon.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Yes folks…

            Please look back at the beginning of this thread. Follow the exchange between me and Dave/Benny and see who started the trollish, bafoonish behavior…

            Reply to Comment
          • Mars Mercury

            @Ben,
            LOL! I warned Dave that you would be up his asshole and it is true.

            And stop making up bubbe meises about some boyfriend you have in Kiryat Ono. Bullshit.

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            To borrow your language, Dave, show me a man who sounds like a character out of Bathhouse: The Musical and I’ll show you a man who couldn’t find his own ass in a dark bathroom with both hands and a flashlight but will want to find mine and yours. I’d watch out for him. I’d watch out for a guy like that, who talks like that, lives in LA and uses phrases like “it’s to die for!” LoL.

            Reply to Comment
          • Dave Kreiselman

            Yeah, I wondered about that phrase. The only people I ever remember using it were Barbara Streisand, Mike Myers doing the “Linda Richman” bit on SNL, and my Aunt Sandy talking about the lasagna at Di Napoli’s. G-d bless her. Lol

            Reply to Comment
          • Dave Kreiselman

            Ben. Thank you dude. Nice of you to say. I showed my wife the thread. After she was done laughing her ass off (10 minutes of non stop cackling), she got all excited about your friend in Qiryat Ono. Who is she / he? Because of course it’s not possible that there could be one person in Qiryat Ono that she doesn’t know, lol.

            While I completely get what you’re saying about clowns like Yankeleh over here, it’s really besides the point. I want you to take a step back and consider the spectacle of a seemingly intelligent, rational person such as yourself, earnestly trying to hold a cogent discussion with lunatics who display all the symptoms of borderline psychosis, with all the attendant delusions of grandeur, paranoia, inflated self-importance, etc. Now I’d like you to consider the amount of time (time which you will never get back btw) and energy that you have expended in successive quixotic attempts to counter the disingenuous arguments of people whose only real concern in life is the retention of an interest-free mortgage and a subsidized utility bill. Like Kahane, these guys are poseurs who think they’re reincarnations of Jabotinksky. And again, much as it was for Kahane, the reality is that they’re nothing more than towel boys at the mikveh, lol.

            Look, if you’d like to chat more, go ahead and friend me on Facebook, since you already know my name. I will gladly confirm. But be careful. There are two of us and I’m not the Jazz musician. He’s my distant cousin and a very good friend. In the mean time it’s back to working on the Sanders campaign. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! FEEL THE BERN 2016! Lol

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            “I showed my wife the thread. After she was done laughing her ass off …”

            OK, let’s just pretend that an idiot like you can have a wife and stay married.

            One then has to ask the obvious question. What the hell is wrong with her?

            Are you able to walk around her before breakfast, and get half the way?

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Certainly let’s chat sometime, Dave. Oh I completely agree about the waste of time–that’s a lesson I’ve learned the hard way but I have learned it!–and your characterization of the scene. But I think +972 is a rare gem as a magazine; and the wingnut commenters afford an interesting anthropological-sociological porthole I feel. And not infrequently cartoon-like entertainment. Best of luck with the Sanders campaign, great work you are doing. I second the motion!, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! FEEL THE BERN 2016!

            Reply to Comment
          • Ben

            Wow, seven posts in one day and counting. Gustav is completely obsessed with Kreiselman. And reduced to insulting Kreiselmen’s wife. Wow. Gustav you can find plenty of traces of Dave Kreiselman the Bernie Sanders campaign guy in comments he has made on the web that sound just like the Kreiselman we know and love. Calm down. Take physic, heal thyself.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Ya think so Bennie dear?

            I’ll tell ya what one of my obsessions is. It is to put idiots in their place. Idiots like you Benny/Dave.

            Reply to Comment
          • Gustav

            Oh and Benny dear…

            If an idiot chooses to bring his “wife” (real or imaginary) into the conversation then he/she is fair game.

            Moreover, even though he (you) chose a hairy chested persona for Dave, he took it like the pussycat that he (you) are. And other than the limp wristed protestation that you (he) chose in your previous post, he (you) just has to take it on the chin.

            See? That’s what happens to idiots who choose trollish tactics. They get their own medicine back.

            Now, are you going to choose to debate respectfully? Pick your choice. I am up to it either way…

            Reply to Comment
          • Dave Kreiselman

            That’s alright. My wife can take it. For Pete’s sake, the woman spends her days striking fear into the hearts of Mexican gang bangers while teaching them biology (and how to be good Americans) in the LAUSD (Los Angeles Unified School District). Oddly enough, they’ve become very protective of her. Believe me when I tell you that the melo-dramatic, half-assed pontifications of some effeminate Jewboy from the back row of the shtiebel isn’t going to phase her. But alas, I digress. Nu, so it’s Friday. Isn’t it time for your date with the right hand? You know, to make your usual girlfriend, the left hand, jealous? Lol

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          • Gustav

            That’s the best you can do Davey boy? Nu, my ego is not crushed…

            Hey Dave baby, tell me…

            Is your ass jealous of the shit that comes out of your mouth?

            One gets the impression that you think that you are a legend in your own mind.

            Or to put it more bluntly, you think that your shit does not smell.

            Recognize yourself, Dave dear?

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          • Gustav

            Oh and Davey baby, I think you are a bit of a fancy boy. Any real man would stand up for his wife either when it comes to defending her or in bed.

            But I guess you are not man enough. Ein lecha betzim, that’s why the IDF got rid of you.

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          • Gustav

            Then again, Davey baby, I sorta understand your problem…

            Sounds like your wife is the one with hair on her chest. I suppose she hit you over the head and dragged you off huh?

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          • Gustav

            So, Dave Baby, seeing that you are into the ego crushing business, tell us, why did you become a yored? Israel was too much for you? Was your fragile little ego crushed in Israel? Too many clever Jews in here and you didn’t make the grade?

            I expect an ego crushing response from you Davey. Otherwise I will be disappointed in you, LOL.

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          • Ben

            Hey Gustav why are you addressing Dave and not me if you are so sure Dave is me? Molto interessante. Your pal Mars is convinced Dave is not me cuz he’s inviting Dave to LA restaurants “to die for” and Mars as you know would never invite me to such a place. LoL.

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          • Gustav

            I am addressing his persona as opposed to your persona, Benny.

            Now that you noticed my post Benny, I expect you to respond to me with a bone crushing put down to my ego, as Dave. Anything short of it will be just too disappointing.

            Are ya gonna do it as Dave, Benny dear? A LOL for a LOL.

            Psst… I bet the little mongrel won’t respond now, just to spite me…LOL…

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          • Gustav

            Oh and by the way, Benny, what exactly gives you the idea that Mars is my pal?

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          • Gustav

            @Benny

            I changed my mind about you and Dave. You and him can’t possibly be one and the same person. I wouldn’t have believed it to be possible but even you could not be as loco as he is…

            Poor old Dave, I feel sorry for him…

            …I asked a brain doctor to read his inane posts and quote how much it would cost to treat him. He charges by the estimated weight of the patient’s brain. He said, he would charge half price. Interested? Wanna help your soul-mate?

            …about his IQ, he said, if it would be any lower, we would have to water him…

            …the message that I got from him about Dave is that he has a brain like Einstein’s… it has been dead since 1955.

            … Wanna know my own thoughts about him? Nah? Well, I’ll tell ya anyways…. if I’d find him floating in my pool, I’d punish my dog.

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          • Gustav

            DAVE:” …Jewboy from the back row of the shtiebel…”

            Poor Davey baby, the mohel must have been able to foretell the future and he foresaw what a dick-head you will turn out to be, so accidentally (on purpose?) he cut too much of your dick off. Now you think all Jews are Kahanists and you hate us all. Well, I must admit, in your place I too might be hostile to us but no, unlike you, I am not damaged goods so I am not.

            Consequently, you don’t wish Jews to survive. So, I suggest that you should start with yourself. But first, don’t forget to nominate yourself as a candidate for the Darwin awards. That would at least get you something. And we would get something out of it too (ya don’t mind, do ya?). It would ensure that if you win (and I am sure you would – y’re dumb enough to win) your faulty genes will no longer contaminate our gene pool.

            Ya don’t have to worry about your child because it ain’t yours. Just ask your dominatrix wife, she’ll tell ya. But even without asking you must already know, you poor thing, how COULD that child be yours? With your floppy equipment down below? I mean really …

            In case you don’t know what the Darwin awards are, this explains it…

            As an example, candidates shooting themselves in the head to demonstrate that a gun is loaded may be eligible for a Darwin Award.

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          • Dave Kreiselman

            Look how easy it is to shake up your little world. One or two pithy remarks and you’re on a hysterical tear that goes on for days. Quite gratifying to watch. You sound like a walking menstrual cycle who’s best friend is a tampon. Lol. Get thee to a mikveh.

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          • Gustav

            You shook up no ones little world Davey baby. I enjoyed every minute of tearing you apart.

            I am here for a serious debate which I will have. But I am more than happy to take idiots like you on at your level too. It is a diversion which I enjoyed. I loved your panicky frantic protestation about your perceived loss of identity. You were wiggling like a fish on a hook. I really don’t know why, if I were you, I would look for a different persona. But I guess it would not be easy for you to hide your stupidity no matter who you would try to be.

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          • Gustav

            DAVE:”Now I would like you to consider the amount of time (time which you will never get back by the way)”

            BENNY:”Certainly let’s chat sometime, Dave. Oh I completely agree about the waste of time–that’s a lesson I’ve learned the hard way”

            Yet you are still here too, Devey boy. Quite gratifying to watch.

            By the way, did you manage to get your little buddy to suck off your limp dick yet?

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          • Dave Kreiselman

            You need to douche. I heard tell that when Nanuet women in the Aleutians get that “not so fresh feeling”, the men folk stick em’ out on an ice flow in the Bering Strait. My question is where do the other eunuchs stick you during your time of the month, lol?

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          • Gustav

            Oh goody, Davey boy, I got under your skin huh? And your time is not precious any more?

            Okey dokey then. Let’s see what makes you tick. You get a rise out of making silly comments and trying to goad the unsuspecting in political forums. I do understand your frustrations, boychick. If women could not arouse me (as is your problem), I too would seek arousals elsewhere.

            But ya know what? I am here to spank ya. To give you the spanking of your life and to teach you that while being stupid is ok. It isn’t ok to display your stupidity and annoy the adults.

            PS
            You didn’t answer my question. Did you manage to get your little buddy to suck your limp member off yet? I mean he was fawning all over you like a little puppy. It shouldn’t be too hard, pardon the pun, LOL.

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          • Gustav

            Oh and Davey boy, I nearly forgot about your apish hairy chested dominatrix wife.

            Has she looked at this thread lately? If so, is she still laughing? If so, who is she laughing at. Let me guess, she is laughing at you. And you are lucky. Most other women would dunk your head in the toilet, flush it and then leave you. The fact that she is still with you, speaks volumes about her too. I guess shit finds it’s own level.

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          • Dave Kreiselman

            Well, to tell you the truth, I only got into Zionism to get laid. Lol. After about 10 years of tripping the light fantastic on a kibbutz with a bunch of jackasses who were constantly questioning me as to my “ideological commitment”, I realized that there were only 3 things I liked about Israel; the women, the food, and sandals as acceptable footwear. So now I live in the states and return for a month every year and a half or so. To quote John Cusack in the film; “Grosse Pointe Blank; ” You can’t go home Altman. But you can shop there” Lol

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          • Gustav

            Well, Benny … oops Davey boy, I am a bit disappointed with your response.

            Here I was waiting for a bone crushing blow to my ego and that’s the best you could come up with? A Walter Mittyish account of your exploits with our נערות?

            Ya have a good imagination, Davey boy but don’t worry, I am sure your mother adores you.

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          • Gustav

            This is getting curioser and curieser…

            This is already a half dead thread. Yet who is just happening to lurk here….?

            1. There is me of course.

            2. Benny

            3. Davey

            I know why I am here. But Benny and Davey at the same time? Well… I guess it is possible… but it is a bit of a coincidence…

            …of course if there is only one of them with multiple persona… but nah… it couldn’t be… I must be mistaken…

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          • Gustav

            For the record. I am convinced that Benny/Dave just either invented or plucked out the name of David Kreiselman out of face book (perhaps as a form of vengeance against that poor person). So let me make it very clear that anything that I say here is aimed at the clown who posts here who I am sure is a fake.

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