69 comments for ”Why Jews need to talk about the Nakba“

    
  1. Max, you are implying that the Palestinians never existed and that there never was a Palestinian State…ect…ect…we all know these positions. A “Western-centric” way of approaching the issue. There wasn’t a Palestinian state because concepts such as “capital”, boundaries, states…ect were not part of their culture. But there was a clear cut palestinian nation (or protonation if you prefer) that you can find going to study the hamule in Nablus in the XVI century or journal as Filastin, al-Munadi, al-Karmil in the first years of the XIX cent.
    That still in 2011 you still think that the Palestinians should be find natural to resettle in Egypt, Iraq…ect..is quite descouraging.

    Exceptions? The big majority of the Jews that arrived in Israel from the Arab States (by the way, I am sure that you Naemi Giladi; I am not saying that “cruel zionism” is the only and complete explanation, but it is part of it) were easily absorbed because they took/stole the houses of thousand of palestinians that were obliged to leave.Musrara it is just an example, but it explains quite well why they were so easily absorbed and why the “madbarot” didn’t last long. Of course they are happy and proud. I also would be happy and proud to arrive and live in a beautiful apartement in Musrara. I would less happy and pround if my family lived there untill few weeks before.

    Point 3. I fully agree with you about the responsabilities of tha Arab States. Palestinians are the first victims of them. And I believe that it’s shameful how they treat them, especially in Lebanon. But that doesn’t erase the Israeli responsabilities, that a mature state as Israel should acknowledge. Or at least, should stop to pay for new settlements. Palestinians paid enough.

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  3. raed, a good analogy that explains your view. As all analogies, it isn’t complete and represents only part of the truth.
    I guess a “narrative” means picking up the parts that best fit one’s wishes :)
    Amongst the parts this analogy hides are the facts that we have a human tragedy hijacked by political motivations; that Israel was created like many other countries the world over, and mostly in the ME, by decrees of the powers and international legal system of the time; that a war ensued, instigated by the leaders of the Palestinian Arabs and the surrounding countries, a war they lost.
    Israel was founded under the premise that it’ll be a Jewish state providing equal rights to its Arab minority. Unfortunately, it was never allowed to prove whether or not it’ll be fully up to the promise, though a comparison to other countries with much lesser problems seems to indicate it fares quite high.

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  5. max, which palestinian leaders started the war? Hajj Amin al-Husayni? A figure and a charge (Muftì of Palestine) fully created by the british that didn’t represent anything for the palestinians.
    the fact is that the resolution 181 (voted by a number of states that represented less than 1/12 of the world population) was an act of justice AND (not or) an esecrable/unfair imposition. there is no contraction in this.

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  7. ben dukium, I have no way to find out whether your post are based on lack of knowledge (ignorance) or are intentionally misleading.
    I assume you know the names of both Hajj Amin & Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni and their battles around Jerusalem, and the Arab Liberation Army of the mercenary Kaukji (appointed by the Arab league) in the north. Their war started before the Jewish stated was proclaimed.
    Similarly, the Jordanian Arab Legion’s massacre at Kfar Etzion happened before May 15.
    As for your baseless statement about al-Husayni’s importance: I’d recommend that you read what both Edward Said and Arafat had to say; on this subject, I rather trust them. The only truth in what you wrote is that he was appointed by the British (more precisely, a British Jew, if you like irony).
    .
    Finally, you’re right in your assertion that resolution 181 had an unfair imposition part; I’d rather go back to the decision by the League of Nations based on Balfour’s declaration. But that’s the way the world works – with any decision you make you drop an infinite number of alternatives. Moving from unfair to tragedy was the Arabs’ doing.

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  9. I don’t even know why I’m spending my time here. But for your personal knowledge I give you a couple of infos/advices. Don’t quote Said without knowing what he has written. His quotation, that you read on wikipedia, was an invention/distortion of Alan Dershowitz. Go to buy his book and read the all sentence: you will discover with great surprise what I mean. I wrote an academic article on it, but for sure I’m not here for advertising.
    The League of Nation? The league that called the 90% of the total population as “non-jewish” people? The League of Nation that didn’t have even one single arab state as a member? the league of nation that had Jan Christian smuts (one of the leadind zionist of britain) as its key figure? I could continue for long, but please don’t insult my person using the League of Nation as a prove of something.
    As for Hajj AMin and his slave Abd al-Qadir, give a look to his election as “gran muftì of jerusalem and the region of palestine” and the Supreme counsil of the Sharia. You will discover that both were completly invented ex novo by the British. I repeat it: ex novo.

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  11. “This committee, chaired by Palestine’s national leader, Hajj Amin al-Husseini, represented the Palestinian Arab national consensus, had the backing of the Palestinian political parties that functioned in Palestine, and was recognized in some form by Arab governments as the voice of the Palestinian people.”
    So according to you, what Said meant was that the chairman of the committee that has the backing of and recognized by etc. etc. was himself a non-figure.
    Quite some scholarly logic
    .
    I also understand that any supporter of Zionism (Jan Christian Smuts), even if not Jewish, is a no go as a peace activist: the League of Nations must have been a Zionist conspiracy.
    Curious: would you also consider Indian PMs as British?
    .
    You bring an interesting point: which independent Arab countries would you have expected to see in the League of Nations in 1922?
    .
    Why are you reading this? I have no idea, but you are :)
    Thanks for the advices!

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  13. To complete my last comment (still awaiting conformation…), as I doubt you followed all my comments in the past few days, I have no idea how many Arabs agreed with the mufti’s antisemitic view; I prefer to think that few only, and hope that the popularity of Mein Kampf (a modern phenomena?) isn’t an indication that I’m deluding myself

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  15. Your land? How did the Muslim world become the Muslim world? Did Allah come down from heaven and grant this new religion – Islam – all the land in the world?

    No. You fucking stole it from the Christians, the Jews, the byztines, you raped, massacred, and murdered millions of hindus.

    This is what the Muslim world is based on.

    And these Jews get .00005% of the middle east and you have the audacity to play the victim?

    IF the collective Muslim world moves back to Arabia, then let’s talk.

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  17. Well, I posted some comments here yesterday – critical of apartheid Israel – and they have been deleted. There isn’t much point in having a discussion forum, is there, if you are going to censor views you don’t agree with. It is all the more nonsensical when those views are in line with the views of the majority of people in the world. Two words come to mind: “ostrich” and “sand”.

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  19. MAX,
    Zionist conspiracy? Are u using some “tools” in order to divert the point? No one spoke about a conspiracy. Next step: use the tool of “antisemitism” that works better.

    The point is clear even if you try to avoid it: if there was not even 1 representative of the arab world in the league of nations and if these nations were among the most important colonialist powers of the time, with leaders that considered their mission using the concept of “white man’s burden”, how can you conceive the League of Nation as a fair/representative international body??

    About Haj AMin I don’t have time to elaborate. Just two short point. The crucial moment was the creation of his charge, the invention of the supreme coucil of the sharia and the decision to appoint him as its leader. The Higher Arab Committee was created 15 years afterwards and IT (not Husseini) “represented the Palestinian Arab national consensus” just because the committee comprised the leaders of the different Palestinian Arab clans (nashashibi, Khalidi, husseini, hadi…ect…). If in 1836 Hajj Amin was elected as its chairman was only because at the moment he was able, thanks to the tools invented by the british, to wield his influence in many ways. Go to the Israeli State Archive and ask to Helena Vilensky to read the letter of protests that the british received from the PAlestinians when they decided to appoint that little man without any islamic education. Once again we are blaming the victims.

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  21. ben dukium, I can read your honesty and professional pride. That’s good. At least we seem to agree that the man was scum.
    But – you position yourself as a scholar – you should read more carefully. In my comments the importance of the number of his moral followers is anecdotal, and I don’t really care what Said wrote or Arafat said about him – the first wasn’t a historian and the latter a terrorist; your claims were much wider, and I addressed them, including the notion of “fairness” – by and large they’re false.

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  23. When I am in the restroom, I observe Qaqba

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  25. Abban Aziz has obviously not read, or if he has, he has failed to understand what this entire article is about

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  27. The Grand Mufti is (or should be) irrelevant to this discussion. Zionists ethically cleansed the land (a process, by the way, which began over five months before May, 1948) in order to set up a state whose highest civic ideal was and is Jewish supremacy (I’m Jewish, just in case you’re wondering). The Zionist’s pursuit of that long-standing ideal had nothing to do with al-Husseini (nor was it in any way connected to what the Arab militias did or did not do in the ’48 war). Al-Husseini, disgusting as he was, was a response to Zionism, not the other way around.

    The precedent that “Israel was created like many other countries the world over” (whether true or not) is likewise irrelevant. Something is either just or it is not; that fact that others have done it (or are doing it) has no place in the discussion (unless to prove it’s just). Or should should slaves accept their bondage on the basis that “many other countries” have had slaves, too?

    The right of the Palestinian refugees to return is enshrined in international law. So is the right of Palestinians now living in what is now called Israel to full equality. That’s what matters—which is precisely why Zionists would rather talk about al-Husseini.

    The good news is that once social movements perceive themselves—and are perceived by others—as a struggle for civil rights, they almost never lose in the long run (barring mass extermination, of course). As Gandhi said, first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

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  29. Should be: “Zionists ETHNICALLY cleansed the land . . .”

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  31. DPL, seems like you haven’t read above what you don’t like. Alternatively, you haven’t understood.
    I wouldn’t consider the possibility that you simply can’t cope with facts

  32. 
  33. [...] steal their lands. Without Israel’s aggression – it ordered the killing of returning refugees, the so called “infiltrators” – there would be no refugee problem. So, yes, Israel is the one responsible for resolving [...]

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  35. comment was removed – this is a space for discussion. you can link to other articles, but don’t re-post them here.

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  37. [...] Society: Articles, photos and updates on the campaign to save Lifta. Why do Jews need to talk abour the Nakba (my article from last Nakba [...]



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