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	<title>Comments on: Why I hate those Bibi memes</title>
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	<link>http://972mag.com/why-i-hate-those-bibi-memes/56714/</link>
	<description>Independent commentary and news from Israel &#38; Palestine</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 01:53:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Deborah</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/why-i-hate-those-bibi-memes/56714/comment-page-1/#comment-79350</link>
		<dc:creator>Deborah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2012 23:11:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=56714#comment-79350</guid>
		<description>I think satire is the appropriate response to Bibi&#039;s being out of touch with political reality.  No, the US is not going to help Israel bomb Iran, especially before November.  Netanyahu seems to believe he&#039;s entitled to slap the US President during an election year; he seems to have assumed that he could pressure Obama, because he&#039;s running for President.  He&#039;s also counting on some kind of phantasm about Jewish American voters suddenly changing their minds and voting for Romney, because of Netanyahu&#039;s banging the drum.  

However, Americans, including Jewish Americans, take no pleasure in watching their President being treated like a door mat during an election year.  It makes Netanyahu look like he has incredibly poor judgment, which he does.  

Oh and really bad visual aids.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think satire is the appropriate response to Bibi&#8217;s being out of touch with political reality.  No, the US is not going to help Israel bomb Iran, especially before November.  Netanyahu seems to believe he&#8217;s entitled to slap the US President during an election year; he seems to have assumed that he could pressure Obama, because he&#8217;s running for President.  He&#8217;s also counting on some kind of phantasm about Jewish American voters suddenly changing their minds and voting for Romney, because of Netanyahu&#8217;s banging the drum.  </p>
<p>However, Americans, including Jewish Americans, take no pleasure in watching their President being treated like a door mat during an election year.  It makes Netanyahu look like he has incredibly poor judgment, which he does.  </p>
<p>Oh and really bad visual aids.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Pollock</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/why-i-hate-those-bibi-memes/56714/comment-page-1/#comment-79342</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Pollock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2012 21:03:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=56714#comment-79342</guid>
		<description>SH: &quot;When you allow vigilantes in part of your territory, you’re tacitly inviting them into the rest of it.&quot;--This is the ultimate weak link in the vanguard settler strategy; opposition will develop, after real costs.

America is not immune; things just take different forms over here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SH: &#8220;When you allow vigilantes in part of your territory, you’re tacitly inviting them into the rest of it.&#8221;&#8211;This is the ultimate weak link in the vanguard settler strategy; opposition will develop, after real costs.</p>
<p>America is not immune; things just take different forms over here.</p>
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		<title>By: sh</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/why-i-hate-those-bibi-memes/56714/comment-page-1/#comment-79298</link>
		<dc:creator>sh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2012 09:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=56714#comment-79298</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re missing the fact that some of us here are actually more scared of our own power (Israeli) in the hands of the current holders of it than of the Iranians. And by that I don&#039;t mean that we&#039;re scared of police or government reprisals against our person for dissent, but of the effect this scarifying about Iran and, increasingly, about everything non-Jewish that moves without permission, is having on the population in general. When you allow vigilantes in part of your territory, you&#039;re tacitly inviting them into the rest of it. When you call asylum-seekers infiltrators, citizens who try to stand up for other citizens self-haters and those who try to defend their own property from harm terrorists, there is such conceptual distortion that only the most solid of innate compasses can stand up to it. And even then, only for so long.

Maybe you people in America have reason to begin thinking about that too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re missing the fact that some of us here are actually more scared of our own power (Israeli) in the hands of the current holders of it than of the Iranians. And by that I don&#8217;t mean that we&#8217;re scared of police or government reprisals against our person for dissent, but of the effect this scarifying about Iran and, increasingly, about everything non-Jewish that moves without permission, is having on the population in general. When you allow vigilantes in part of your territory, you&#8217;re tacitly inviting them into the rest of it. When you call asylum-seekers infiltrators, citizens who try to stand up for other citizens self-haters and those who try to defend their own property from harm terrorists, there is such conceptual distortion that only the most solid of innate compasses can stand up to it. And even then, only for so long.</p>
<p>Maybe you people in America have reason to begin thinking about that too.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Witty</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/why-i-hate-those-bibi-memes/56714/comment-page-1/#comment-79243</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Witty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2012 01:10:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=56714#comment-79243</guid>
		<description>You are entirely mistaken of that Aristeides.

The critical audience were Israelis and political leadership in Europe, US, and developing world.

The United States declared encouragement for the point that Netanyahu articulated as his recommended red line, and likely will adopt that definition and communicate it.

The danger with setting a red line is that you have to act on it if crossed. And, the Iranian regime has conspicuously reiterated, &quot;we will not consider American and European demands in our nuclear policy&quot;.

So, those two are a path to war. The TWO, not Israel unilaterally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are entirely mistaken of that Aristeides.</p>
<p>The critical audience were Israelis and political leadership in Europe, US, and developing world.</p>
<p>The United States declared encouragement for the point that Netanyahu articulated as his recommended red line, and likely will adopt that definition and communicate it.</p>
<p>The danger with setting a red line is that you have to act on it if crossed. And, the Iranian regime has conspicuously reiterated, &#8220;we will not consider American and European demands in our nuclear policy&#8221;.</p>
<p>So, those two are a path to war. The TWO, not Israel unilaterally.</p>
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		<title>By: aristeides</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/why-i-hate-those-bibi-memes/56714/comment-page-1/#comment-79239</link>
		<dc:creator>aristeides</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2012 23:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=56714#comment-79239</guid>
		<description>I simply don&#039;t think Palestine is an issue here.  Unfortunate but true.

I don&#039;t think Yahoo is pounding the war drums against Iran to deflect interest from Palestine as much as he simply wants to defeat Iran.

And if this is his goal, it&#039;s clearly been a huge failure.  Not one person who wasn&#039;t already on his crew was convinced by his clown act.  He gained not one minim of support.

And if you look at, say, the Financial Times this weekend, you can see that the ridicule is taking effect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I simply don&#8217;t think Palestine is an issue here.  Unfortunate but true.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think Yahoo is pounding the war drums against Iran to deflect interest from Palestine as much as he simply wants to defeat Iran.</p>
<p>And if this is his goal, it&#8217;s clearly been a huge failure.  Not one person who wasn&#8217;t already on his crew was convinced by his clown act.  He gained not one minim of support.</p>
<p>And if you look at, say, the Financial Times this weekend, you can see that the ridicule is taking effect.</p>
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		<title>By: Assaf</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/why-i-hate-those-bibi-memes/56714/comment-page-1/#comment-79205</link>
		<dc:creator>Assaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2012 15:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=56714#comment-79205</guid>
		<description>Noam,

I agree there are reasons to be angry at Bibi&#039;s speech. Here&#039;s my version of this:
http://theonlydemocracy.org/2012/09/bibis-wile-e-coyote-un-speech-a-symbol-of-right-wing-politicians-disdain-for-everyone/

But I disagree that the comical aspect works in Bibi&#039;s favor. If he thought he was speaking to the American public over the heads of the pundits - well, this part has backfired Wile E. Coyote style. As others commented, his Iran messages will now always be viewed with a huge grain of salt. And more specifically, if he continues to inject himself into the anti-Obama election campaign, he will do Romney damage not good.

I don&#039;t see how making yourself a political liability in America is a success for an Israeli PM.

But that aside, he has definitely succeeded in making people forget Palestine even more. In essence his cartoon speech says that Bibi thinks he can present the Iran issue in the most ridiculous way possible - and still the world will not dare to dismiss him, will not dare to remind him of Palestine or of Israel&#039;s own nukes.

And on this, sadly, he is right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Noam,</p>
<p>I agree there are reasons to be angry at Bibi&#8217;s speech. Here&#8217;s my version of this:<br />
<a href="http://theonlydemocracy.org/2012/09/bibis-wile-e-coyote-un-speech-a-symbol-of-right-wing-politicians-disdain-for-everyone/" rel="nofollow">http://theonlydemocracy.org/2012/09/bibis-wile-e-coyote-un-speech-a-symbol-of-right-wing-politicians-disdain-for-everyone/</a></p>
<p>But I disagree that the comical aspect works in Bibi&#8217;s favor. If he thought he was speaking to the American public over the heads of the pundits &#8211; well, this part has backfired Wile E. Coyote style. As others commented, his Iran messages will now always be viewed with a huge grain of salt. And more specifically, if he continues to inject himself into the anti-Obama election campaign, he will do Romney damage not good.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see how making yourself a political liability in America is a success for an Israeli PM.</p>
<p>But that aside, he has definitely succeeded in making people forget Palestine even more. In essence his cartoon speech says that Bibi thinks he can present the Iran issue in the most ridiculous way possible &#8211; and still the world will not dare to dismiss him, will not dare to remind him of Palestine or of Israel&#8217;s own nukes.</p>
<p>And on this, sadly, he is right.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Pollock</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/why-i-hate-those-bibi-memes/56714/comment-page-1/#comment-79135</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Pollock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2012 02:24:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=56714#comment-79135</guid>
		<description>There was a little more, of no consequence:

I think the Tea Party here hooted at the insult Bibi gave.  But I think what I call the moneyed Republicans are worried--not at the content, but the almost slap to American power.  Romeny is all for it now, but would not be if elected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was a little more, of no consequence:</p>
<p>I think the Tea Party here hooted at the insult Bibi gave.  But I think what I call the moneyed Republicans are worried&#8211;not at the content, but the almost slap to American power.  Romeny is all for it now, but would not be if elected.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Pollock</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/why-i-hate-those-bibi-memes/56714/comment-page-1/#comment-79134</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Pollock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2012 02:18:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=56714#comment-79134</guid>
		<description>I do not see Bibi as brilliant but arrogantly disdainful.  He talked down to the General Assembly, believes what he said, and how he said it.  He is not trying to obscure the Palestinian issue, for there is not one; the correct path is clear, take it or continue to suffer through your own cause.

What I suspect you are lamenting is the failure of a sustained social organization (think Tea Party on the American right; unions on the left) opposition in Israel.  It is almost as though you lack the low key, persistent organization that enables a later electoral shift.  I think the summer social portests were slapped down quickly (assuming they could sustain themselves otherwise) to remove one platform for such emergent organization, a preemptive measue.  Organization is not about publishing memes or even 972 pieces; it entails micro socio-economic aid among people trying to find a way out, forming groups with active ideologies.  At present, Israel seems to be organizationally top down, vying for alienated voters.

I think the Tea Party here hooted at the insult Bibi gave.  But I think what I call the moneyed Republicans are worried--not at the content, but the almost slap to American power.  Romeny is all for it now, but would not be if elected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not see Bibi as brilliant but arrogantly disdainful.  He talked down to the General Assembly, believes what he said, and how he said it.  He is not trying to obscure the Palestinian issue, for there is not one; the correct path is clear, take it or continue to suffer through your own cause.</p>
<p>What I suspect you are lamenting is the failure of a sustained social organization (think Tea Party on the American right; unions on the left) opposition in Israel.  It is almost as though you lack the low key, persistent organization that enables a later electoral shift.  I think the summer social portests were slapped down quickly (assuming they could sustain themselves otherwise) to remove one platform for such emergent organization, a preemptive measue.  Organization is not about publishing memes or even 972 pieces; it entails micro socio-economic aid among people trying to find a way out, forming groups with active ideologies.  At present, Israel seems to be organizationally top down, vying for alienated voters.</p>
<p>I think the Tea Party here hooted at the insult Bibi gave.  But I think what I call the moneyed Republicans are worried&#8211;not at the content, but the almost slap to American power.  Romeny is all for it now, but would not be if elected.</p>
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		<title>By: sh</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/why-i-hate-those-bibi-memes/56714/comment-page-1/#comment-79127</link>
		<dc:creator>sh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Sep 2012 22:37:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=56714#comment-79127</guid>
		<description>A meme isn&#039;t a caricature it&#039;s satire+photoshop, although I don&#039;t think any I saw were worthy of being included in the same sentence as Kubrick or Chaplin. I thought the most apt remark on the whole charade compared Bibi&#039;s antics with the late Zenga Zenga&#039;s. Bibi&#039;s not quite in his league, no. But perhaps Berlusconi&#039;s? Or Putin&#039;s?

When he started (radio not TV) I fought my inner groan for maybe a minute while he was tuning up on 3,000 years ago and then pushed the button. I recommend it - not to Bibi, I hasten to add.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A meme isn&#8217;t a caricature it&#8217;s satire+photoshop, although I don&#8217;t think any I saw were worthy of being included in the same sentence as Kubrick or Chaplin. I thought the most apt remark on the whole charade compared Bibi&#8217;s antics with the late Zenga Zenga&#8217;s. Bibi&#8217;s not quite in his league, no. But perhaps Berlusconi&#8217;s? Or Putin&#8217;s?</p>
<p>When he started (radio not TV) I fought my inner groan for maybe a minute while he was tuning up on 3,000 years ago and then pushed the button. I recommend it &#8211; not to Bibi, I hasten to add.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Witty</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/why-i-hate-those-bibi-memes/56714/comment-page-1/#comment-79117</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Witty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Sep 2012 21:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=56714#comment-79117</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think Noam is contesting the validity of people making caricatures, so much as criticizing the self-talking fiddling while Rome burns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think Noam is contesting the validity of people making caricatures, so much as criticizing the self-talking fiddling while Rome burns.</p>
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