46 comments for ”So this Arab tries to buy a settlement. No, for real. (UPDATED)“

    
  1. Amazing. Brazen Open racism and nobody wants to say a word about it…at least in American media. Thank you for the report Ami, this makes me sick.

  2. 
  3. How come you are worried about the Arabs coming and getting our Jewish girls? What about the Arab girls coming for our Jewish men? Or would the Arabs towns and villages welcome Jewish men coming there and looking for Arab girls? I am sure their families, being multi-cultural, unlike us Jews, would welcome such a thing. Right?

    Regarding the lack of money for fire-fighting equipment…I suggest that the state stop financing the Israeli movie industry which cranks out films few people are interested in, or that it stop subsidizing University departments, such as Philosophy, that don’t generate much interest. I am sure there are more people who come on Taglit trips, some of whom end up making aliyah, than are interested in the post-Modernest deconstructed stuff the Philosophy Departments are putting out.

  4. 
  5. Today Israel and Canada announced a $200 million deal to supply Israel with 6 fire-fighting planes.

    You should get Monster some medication, he appears to be feeling sick.

  6.  
  7. 
  8. Well, so what you’re saying is that the $28 million added to a program that is having a great impact on Jewish continuity in North America is a waste because Israel should buy another plane from Canada? Seems like you have a very short-range view of things. I realize you see everything through the prism of your pro-Palestinian activism, but Birthright is not about your Palestinian friends, it is about Jewish roots, Zionism and an introduction to Israel. It’s not the Israel you want the Birthrighters to know about, but the fact is, that your skewed views of Israel also aren’t representative of what Israel is about, and are far less indicative of what Israel is about than reality.

  9.  
  10. This writer is a former Haartz Cheif Editor!!Oh well thats to be expected.

  11. 
  12. Picture of Israeli soldier in uniform talking to a girl: “Hey, how ’bout we talk some Hasbara over at my place when you get done with all this Taglit stuff”
    “So yeah, let’s bring 50,000 (instead of “just” 30,000) kids a year and shove Hasbara down their throats. It’s not like we need any fire equipment or anything.”

    I guess I’m an idiot, because this is what you wrote.

    Oh, I almost forgot. I don’t do “hasbara.”

  13.  
  14. At least I don’t taunt like a seven year old boy. That would be you.

  15.  
  16. First of all, I’m male. Don’t talk to me like you would to a woman you meet at work. Second, as always, you are welcome to provide evidence from my comments on your site that backs up the accusations that I’m a “bigot,” “fascist,” “hasbara venom spewer.” Since you can’t, we’re back to the seven year old who simply taunts because there is nothing else he can muster up.

  17.  
  18. I thought you were using your street slang again, Ami. And unlike your name-calling, I was referring to something you actually wrote. I wish I were paid to debate with you. The joke is that you and your friends DO make a living from authoring extremist views.

  19.  
  20. Come now, Ami, I write specifically about the topic. For example, in this discussion I merely reminded you that Israel had indeed spent far more of its funds to buy fire-fighting equipment than on Birthright. Then I commented on the obvious commentary you were making about Birthright. Right on point.
    I’m here because I thought you folks wanted a discussion, not just to pat each other on the back while you threw around terms like “ethnic cleansing.” The naivete on my part was to expect extreme Leftists to be able to debate and discuss without name-calling.
    I don’t write with venom. I’m actually sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians and support a two state solution that gives them their half of Jerusalem and their Jerusalem holy places. If it weren’t for the Gaza experience, I would advocate for unilateral exit from most of Judea and Samaria, minus key population centers and defensive positions like the Jordan Valley.
    However, unlike you, I take both PA and Hamas anti-Israel and anti-Jewish invective and actions at face value. I realize that the IDF can’t leave yet and that Israel has no partner for peace. Are my views “fascist” or “racist?” If what I’ve just written is “fascist” or “racist” by your standards, then you need to reconfigure your standards.
    Contrary to your statement blaming me and “my ilk” (whatever that is) for taking us all down, the fault actually lies with the Palestinian leadership and their international supporters on the Left. You know, the ones who justify or ignore the antisemitism spewed by the PA or Hamas (like you); the ones who ignore the history of the conflict such as massacres of Jews when they were still a small minority here (like you); the ones who ignore or minimize Israel’s efforts to forge peace (like you); the ones who support calls for the destruction of the only state where Jews can enjoy the self-determination that other nations enjoy (and who support these calls in favor of a right of Palestinians to self-determination even if it will negate the Jewish one) (like you); the ones who label anybody to the right of Meretz a “fascist” (like you); the ones who excuse or minimize Palestinian attacks from Gaza on Israelis and then want Israel to facilitate further arms-buildup by these same Palestinians (I don’t know whether you do, but let’s assume you do); and so on.
    It’s not me or my “ilk” who are bringing anybody down. It’s you and your ilk. You and your friends weaken Israel and strengthen the side that is consistent and straightforward in stating their enmity towards Israel. Your false vilification of Israel is so severe and so influential precisely because you are all Israelis, that the harm to Israel and its leverage has been incalculable. If people like Lieberman are able to exist with 15 seats today while Labor sits with far less, it is because you and your ilk have helped the Palestinians and Arab states put Israel’s back up against a wall and most Israelis sense it. For that matter, so do most Palestinians. Congratulations on extending the conflict.

  21. 
  22. Are you suggesting that all of you who are reporters, writers and advisers don’t get paid for expressing your views?

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  24. Ami, I don’t do hasbara. Not everything that contradicts your point of view is hasbara. And if you don’t respond to criticism of your views by labeling it all “hasbara” that is your loss.
    I didn’t mean that you make money from your blogging. I meant that you and others make your living by writing, and it is very challenging to be a writer or reporter without having your biases color your writing.
    As for your paranoia regarding whether I’m from Im Tirtzu or any other organization, sorry to disappoint. Just a regular person who is unaffiliated with any group or party.

  25. 
  26. @maayan: here’s a form or more educational hasbara, an article explaining what 972 is:

    http://www.the7eye.org.il/DailyColumn/Pages/090111_Opposite_approach.aspx

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  28. Tahel, thanks. I kind of figured most of that out before reading the article.

    Ami, if your “hunches” about me are representative of your hunches in general, you should be extremely careful about following hunches when you invest. ;)

  29. 
  30. Ma’ayan,

    Are you serious? Taglit is having

    “a great impact on Jewish continuity in North America” ?

    Taglit’s attraction to American teens is that it’s a FREE TRIP – nothing more.

    What’s having “a great impact on Jewish continuity in America” is Israel’s behavior, its intransigience, its rascism, violence, failing education system, its ex-President Katzav, current Prime Minister Bibi, and Avigdor (Rasputin) Lieberman, – with the result being that more and more American Jews are gradually distancing themselves or totally disassociating themselves from Israel.

  31. 
  32. Shelly, Birthright, according to the stats, is having a great impact on Jewish continuity. Sorry if that upsets you.
    What upsets me is the lie that somehow the grab-bag of things that bother you interfere with continuity in North America. Katzav? Who the hell takes responsibility for that? Do you? There aren’t rapists in other countries? A failed education system? It hasn’t quite failed yet, but are you suggesting the US has a better one? Because then you might have something to say about why Jews in the US would be upset by Israel’s educational system. The fact is that it upsets you (and me) but not them.
    Have you considered that you, your cohorts in crime here and your pro-Palestinian allies all over North America and Europe have made your lies the dominant narrative which exits on so many university campuses that it’s very hard for Jewish students to identify as Jews, much less as Israel supporters, without having to confront anti-Israel invective and bias on their campuses? I believe that constitutes one of the biggest threats to Jewish continuity.

  33. 
  34. exists, not exits.

  35. 
  36. “your cohorts in crime here”

    Maayan,
    You are a very sick puppy.
    Time to transfer to a different, more rational motivational seminar or wherever you get your “stuff.”

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  38. One thing I find interesting about you “Progressives” is that you identify the State of Israel with the government in power. Shelly asks how American Jews can identify with Israel if the government is not “progressive”. But in fact they do. Why? Because Israel is the Jewish country. They identify with the Jewish project in the country. Just as I do. I made aliyah 25 years ago because I wanted to live in a Jewish country, NOT becaue I identify with the regime in power, or even with the ideology that regime claims to support. I wanted to live in a Jewish-Zionist state and I do so willingly, no matter what I think of whomever is in power. I think most American Jews identify with Israel the same way. This 972 is hyperpoliticized and views everyone and everything from their hyperpoliticized-hyperideological framework. Most people don’t live that way. That is why TAGLIT is and will continue to be a big success-because young Jews get turned on to their Jewish idenity by coming into contact with the Jews of the Jewish state, just as I did years ago.

  39. 
  40. Huh?

    TAGLIT will continue to be a big success because it’s FREE.

  41. 
  42. Shelly, it’s not a moral crime to have “Israel apartheid week” on campuses? What I read on this site puts those events to shame, and much of the context you provide here – I’m not talking about the information, but how you analyze and disseminate it – is precisely what many anti-Israel groups abroad use to beat up Israel on and off-campus. Jewish students are victims because they have a very tough time as a result of the automatic identification of Jewish students with Israel (unless they join forces with Israel’s attackers). And, of course, Jewish students also have a very challenging time contesting the extremely sophisticated attacks that come out of the very sophisticated writers and activists who feed this information.

    So, no, I’m not a sick puppy. I’m also not a fascist, a bigot, a racist or any of the other things I’ve been called on 972. Actually, I’m a center-left Zionist who believes that the hypocrisy and cynicism reflected in the writings I find here and generally on the far left and its activists are killing the chances for peace.

    There’s a song by Erez Lev Ari where he says “What will I do with all this justice in the morning” because his lover is gone. He won the argument but he lost his partner. You guys are doing the same and in the end, we have lots and lots of (dubious and hypocritical) claims for justice, but all you’ve done is strengthen the potential partner to a degree that they’re gone…and with them is the prospect for peace.

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  44. maayan- out of curiosity, when u say “center-left” who does that mean you vote for?

    from my experience of
    (1)living in jerusalem and seeing these Taglit kids traipse around the old city wearing shorts shorter than bikini bottoms and having the entire city covered with these ridiculous banners and signs welcoming them as if they came bearing the winds of change
    (2)attending several meetings with them when i was in high school, where generally i would be thanked by them for agreeing to live in israel and protect the jewish homeland in case they would ever need it (their words, not mine, needless to say when this was said to me and i answered back- i was expelled from school for the day)
    (3)hearing my friends in the army fight about the one spot open for a soldier to show around taglit because those parties were “the bomb”.
    Hence, the conclusion i have reached about taglit is:
    that money could be put to better use.

  45. 
  46. I forgot to mention a substantial argument other than my personal bitter observations:

    Ben Israel – you are exactly the difference between Taglit (free camel rid in the desert) and between Jews living abroad that chose to recognize Israel as their homeland, not their “run-to-in-case-of-emergency” land.

    Maayan- funny enough, most of my problems at univesity abroad start and end with the other Israelis- lieberman voters, that tell my international friends not to talk to me because everything i tell them about israel is a lie. mind you, im not quite sure when’s the last time they opened ynet to a page that wasnt sports. and even if they read the news- its ynet.
    when it comes to bullying on campus, from friends at BU, NYC, Seattle and some other places around the world- most of the bullying I hear about is done by Jewish groups to other jews and israelis, not by the one palestinian that miraculously managed to find his way out of the occupation and over there.

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  48. Who would I vote for? Let’s just say that if Labor had different leadership, Labor. My guess right now is that if another election comes up tomorrow, so as not to waste my vote, it would have to be Kadima. Their last leader made a good-faith peace offer which I could live with (though it pains me to think of giving up Samaria and parts of Judea).

    As for Birthright, there are parties and people get together. Yup. It’s supposed to be fun. And apparently, it resonates and stays with the kids for years afterward.

    As for your experience at university, I am familiar with several campuses in several cities and what goes on in them. It is not what you describe. The Jewish student groups find themselves on the defensive and under tremendous pressure. They find that instead of just having a good time, they are recruited, simply because they are Jewish or supporters of Israel, to battle the much larger anti-Israel groups. It may be that you encountered hostility because the last thing they need is somebody joining them who repeats what their opponents say, but overall these Jewish kids are under tremendous pressure and unfair pressure at that.

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  50. Maayan-If it pains you to think of giving up Judea/Samaria which is Kadima’s policy, what do you think of Olmert’s agreement to give up the Western Wall, Jewish Quarter of the Old City and Mt of Olives cemetery? His plan is to turn them over to a “neutral international body” that will include friends of Israel like Saudi Arabia and the Palestinians. Just like the good ole’ days of the neutral British Mandate. When the inevitable harassment of Jews going to these places occurs, the “neutral international body” will meet and decide whether to provide security. No doubt it would require a unanimous vote. Maybe they would have to check with the UN Security Council first. In the end, Jews would stop visiting these places due to the lack of security. AND THIS WAS OLMERT’S OFFER! A man who grew up in the aristocracy of the “right-wing” Revisionist/Herut movement.

  51. 
  52. I’m very familiar with Olmert’s offer and agree with it. His offer is essentially a version of 181, and that was a very wise resolution by the GA.

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  54. I guess I should add that I believe mechanisms can be put into place that ensure Jews retain their current rights in the Holy Basin.
    I also think Olmert’s offer is Israel’s final offer. The people who pretend to want peace and justice but continue to attack Israel should be demonstrating daily for the Palestinians to accept this offer.
    If the Palestinians chose and continue to choose to reject Olmert’s offer (other than minor modifications and concluding the tying of loose ends), then I don’t see what more there is to discuss with the Palestinians and Israel needs to find other ways to secure its future as a democratic Jewish state.

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  56. M-There is NO WAY Jewish rights would or could be maintained with these areas and the areas around them (I am including all of the old city and the rest of Jerusalem in this) under “International control”. I am surprised that someone like you, who has seemed pretty perceptive up until now, believes that can be the case.

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  58. I don’t think you’re right. This won’t be UNIFIL and Lebanon, because Israel won’t agree to play by those rules.

    Anyway, it seems immaterial because the Palestinians have given up any pretense of seeking a compromise. I actually believe that Israel needs to come up with other solutions, and it seems to me that holding on to all of Judea and Samaria won’t be among these ideas.

  59. 
  60. “though it pains me to think of giving up Samaria and parts of Judea” – any hill or olive tree in particular that you’re fond of?

    “overall these Jewish kids are under tremendous pressure and unfair pressure at that”- its real hard being a jew these days isnt it. i mean, how do you explain your support of a 43 year occupation to people that haven’t been brainwashed?!

    Ben Israel and Maayan, let us know what you worked out as the best option for the palestinians. I hope they’re at least as excited as I am, if not more, to hear your final offer.

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  62. “any hill or olive tree in particular that you’re fond of?”

    Many. Why do you ask?

    “i mean, how do you explain your support of a 43 year occupation to people that haven’t been brainwashed?!”

    It’s actually very easy. I tell them about Israel’s peace offers. I tell them how Israel has demonstrated with Egypt that it is willing to give up land for peace. I tell them about Abbas’s doctoral thesis; the PA’s penchant for denying Jewish history; Hamas’s use of antisemitic motifs in their charter; and the history of modern terrorism, as practiced by the PLO – mother to the PA. Basically, I provide them with solid facts. I also indicate to them that the Palestinians are victims, but I remind them that they are primarily victims of their leadership and of other Arab countries. As you know, this is relatively easy to prove as well.

    But Tahel, I’m not sure what you mean by letting you know what we think the best option for the Palestinians would be. The Palestinians claimed they want peace with Israel. They want a capital in eastern Jerusalem, control over their holy sites and all the land up to 1949 armistice lines. Israel offered them these things and land over 98% of 1949 armistice lines, to which the Palestinians responded that the “gaps were too wide” before walking away from the talks and a deal. This was what the Palestinians wanted? Not what I or Ben Israel wanted. Right?

  63. 
  64. Wait! Maayan is MALE?!?

    All these Israeli men have names that sound like women. Is that why they are so violent and thuggish and feel the need to show the world their “bravery” by attacking unarmed human rights workers and running over stone-throwing children with tanks?

  65. 
  66. maayan you’re going to have to recognize at one point the meaning of the word “negotiation”.
    Negotiation means that every side comes with an idea of the outcome they would like but with the willingness to hear the other side’s idea and at the very least DISCUSS IT.
    you can keep writing about all of these OFFERS, but those are not NEGOTIATED OFFERS, those are ISRAEL’S IDEA OF THE OUTCOME THEY WOULD LIKE.
    now, hopefully you at least agree that if we want to resolve the conflict, there need to be NEGOTIATIONS and not just UNILATERAL DECLARATIONS.
    and this is what i meant in my comment – everyone in israel can keep discussing with each other what we think is fair, what we’re willing to give- show me the Israeli that is willing to have this discussion with Ahmad, listen to what he has to say, and be open to adjustments.

  67. 
  68. Tahel, you see? We agree completely!! Now, all you have to do is join your friends here at 972 and go forth to protest the PA’s desire to avoid negotiations. Go and do it, Tahel, so that we can have peace and two states. Go and shout with your Palestinian friends at Abbas and Fayyad that enough is enough and surely with Israel offering 98% of the land they asked for, and eastern Jerusalem as a capital, and tens of billions of dollars in reparations, and a symbolic right of return, and an actual right of return to the new Palestine, and an actual state, and control over the Arab holy places both Christian and Muslim, surely the PA leadership can find a way to overcome the tiny little amount Israel hasn’t yet given them.
    What I wrote above is what Olmert offered!! The Palestinians walked away. Since then, they have played at staying away from negotiations, in large part because they don’t even need to bother fighting Israel any more, you guys will do it for them.
    So, since we agree that negotiations are necessary to complete talks, why don’t you and your friends press your Palestinian friends to join you in demonstrating for the Palestinian government to go back to negotiations so that we can make the final adjustments that will resolve all outstanding issues and have peace. Go for it, Tahel!

  69. 
  70. Maayan, Roi wrote a piece here in which he disputes – with his characteristic meticulousness – the idea that Olmert offered the Palestinians a great deal. You might find it interesting.

  71. 
  72. Of course he did, Lisa. He had to. Otherwise his entire world view collapses around him. After all, if Israel offers the Palestinians a fair offer of a state and the Palestinians reject that fair offer – which is precisely what happened here – then suddenly all the accusations of Nazism, apartheid, illegal occupation, violations of Geneva Convention, et cetera ad infinitum, become moot. There could be a settlement already. A Palestinian state could be coming into being right now. Instead, the Palestinians would rather wait, knowing that you and your friends will ensure that Israel is blamed, that it is vilified, that it is censured and boycotted, and then they will (they hope) move into the next stage of their war from an even stronger vantage point.
    They got everything they asked for, Lisa, except Israel giving up Israel, and apparently that’s what they want. Stop justifying their recalcitrance.

  73. 
  74. I wonder Maayan, with such convictions, why YOU haven’t yet gotten involved in selling these solutions to the Palestinians?
    or are you one of those annoying people that just complain about what everyone else is doing? (a great testament to Israeli foreign policy I would add).



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