21 comments for ”What do Israelis think of 1967 borders with swaps?“

    
  1. I like your green map. I clearly shows what the last umpteen governments have been doing instead.
    .
    For people wondering about the white stripe next to the Jordan:
    http://www.btselem.org/Download/201105_Dispossession_and_Exploitation_Eng.pdf

  2. 
  3. Dahlia
    In true orientalist fashion, you have not polled the Palestinians what we think of this idea

  4.  
  5. That has been the Israeli majority’s expected outcome since June 12, 1967 -except for the radical fringe (left and right). In my area (the Western Negev) I have never heard anyone mention transfer or anything of the kind but land swaps.

  6. 
  7. Really great insight – thanks Dahlia.

  8. 
  9. Dahlia
    Most Palestinians, myself included, dont want to share Palestine with invaders and colonists. That is why it doesnt matter whether a majority or minority of colonialists want the 1967 border. I am just saving you a lot of work. It is the 1948 border that is the problem

  10. 
  11. Dahlia, it seems like your findings are echoed in some of the comments up here.
    It also seems like if the other commentators reflect the results of your surveys amongst Palestinians, there’s very little left to discuss about.
    Care to share with us your feedback? Thanks.

  12. 
  13. Dahlia, great work. Very impressive and thorough.

    Saeed, attitudes from people with extremist intolerant attitudes like yours or like those of your counterparts on the Israeli side are the reason why Palestinians and Israelis are suffering. Those who delude themselves to think they can have the whole thing enslave their peoples to have eternal war instead. Unless both peoples recognize their fates are interlinked and that Two States for Two Peoples are the only way to achieve freedom, security, and dignity for all, neither side will see their potential fulfilled.

  14. 
  15. The fact that almost a third of Israelis* supported ethnic cleansing of millions of people doesn’t seem to shock anybody. But then again, why would it?

    *By the way, I presume that as usual only Jewish Israelis were polled?

  16. 
  17. Oh, yeah. It says “Jewish sample” right on top. Naturally.

  18.  
  19. Come on Dahlia. It was the way President Obama did this that was such a change.

    The reason Israeli PM Netanyahu reacted in the way he did is manifold: President Obama decided to deliver a major hostile policy change, the day before PM Netanyahu’s visit, to embarrass him. President Obama demanded concrete Israeli concessions – a withdrawal to essentially 9 mile wide borders (at the biggest population concentration) from Israel, while not demanding any concrete actions from the Palestinian leadership.

    Worst of all, President Obama made no reference to the refugee issue. In particular, President Obama’s speech gives Palestinians the green light to pursue a state along 1967 lines, while keeping the issue of refugees as a pretext for later conflict. Mahmoud Abbas can continue to demand a “Jew-free” state on the West Bank, while calling for resettlement of Arab refugees in pre-1967 Israel, not in the West Bank. This absurd claim denies the rights of the similar number of JEWISH REFUGEES FROM ARAB LANDS. It sidesteps Arab culpability for starting the wars that led to BOTH refugee issues.

    How long will it take to stop blaming Israel for refusing to commit suicide? If there was a reasonable chance that the Palestinians would end the conflict in exchange for land, 90% of Israelis, including PM Netanyahu would jumo at that. But it is crystal clear that nothing Israel can do will end the conflict. It would not make a difference if Israel consisted just of Tel Aviv, nor if its PM was the Dalai Lama.

    How long will it take to even hint at the numerous Palestinian actions that reject coexistence:
    (1) Seeking unilateral statehood without peace;

    (2) The pact between Fatah and Hamas;

    (3) Abbas saying he will never recognize Israel as a Jewish state (which brings him quite close to the Hamas position).

    (4) The PA officially denying any Jewish connection to Jerusalem;

    (5) The PA naming town squares after the worst suicide attackers;

    (6) The PA praising and encouraging Nakba day;

    (7) The PA demanding Arab refugees be resettled in pre-1967 Israel, not the West Bank.

    (8) The refusal to recognize the rights of the similar number of JEWISH REFUGEES FROM ARAB LANDS.

    Above all, how long will it take to tell the bottom line: Arab refusal to accept a permanent Jewish state, no matter how small?

  20. 
  21. I don’t have inquiries about the data. I noticed that I had overlooked the header the instant I clicked ‘submit’, but you can’t edit posts here, unfortunately, so I just added a quick correction post.

    In any case: 29% of polled Jewish Israelis answered that they would rather ‘transfer’ than go back to the 1967 lines. I do find this to be a rather troubling result because it indicates that a considerable chunk of the Jewish Israeli public is (or was in 2002) radicalized to the point where they consider ethnic cleansing to be acceptable or even preferable.

    Unfortunately, later polls apparently dropped this question. Or do you have newer poll data including it? Did support for ‘transfer’ go up? Down?

  22. 
  23. I think the surveys proves the contention that Israeli Jews seek peace at any price, except self-destruction. However, reaeding the Arab press incidates that most Arabs, including Hamas whose leaders bluntly state they want Israel’s destruction, do not want peace. During the riots in Cairo, a constant cry was kill the Jews and a reporter was injured and raped because the Rioters said she was a Jew.

  24. 
  25. References to, but not shown. Please! Where is the Green Map?

  26. 
  27. Saeed,
    Would you stay your post reflects the mainstream Palestinian viewpoint?

  28. 
  29. Carrie,
    Whatever Saeed would say regarding what he sees as a mainstream Palestinian viewpoint, I’d suggest you look for scientifically collected evidence on the matter (and if none exists, get someone to do a survey!).

  30. 
  31. Some surveys show that almost half of the Palestinians in the territories would accept Israel as a Jewish state.
    Politically, however, the situation is drastically different, as in the last election the majority elected Hamas who categorically rejects the notion of a Jewish state, no matter its borders.
    So Saeed’s view represents the current political (democratic) reality

  32. 
  33. [...] pollster Dahlia Scheindlin wrote on this site, such figures correspond to previous polls, which show, for most part, the support of most of the Jewish public for a two-state solution based [...]

  34. 
  35. As at least one Palestinian poster said, the Arabs want negotiations to be based on the 1948 boundaries, and that’s why diplomats say to Israel, we will base negotiations on 1967, not 1948 as the Arabs wish. Stated diplomatically, it looks as though America is doing Israel a favor. Stated bluntly, as the President did, it looks as though America is making demands that are not in Israel’s best interest.

    Negotiations should be private, and diplomatic. Of course the President will make his wishes known, but he shouldn’t be directly involved. Now that negotiations are taking place in public, both sides are refusing the others narrative before they even sit down.

    Bibi, the more experienced leader, will have to heal the rift because the Arabs are taking advantage of it by insinuating that if even America can’t get along with Israel, how can they be expected to?

  36. 
  37. [...] many polls showed a somewhat steady support in the Jewish public for a two states solution based on 67′ [...]



Leave a comment