Comments on: WATCH: Why does a Palestinian speak at a J Street conference? http://972mag.com/watch-why-does-a-palestinian-speak-at-a-j-street-conference/39370/ Independent commentary and news from Israel & Palestine Wed, 22 May 2013 07:23:52 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Henry Weinstein http://972mag.com/watch-why-does-a-palestinian-speak-at-a-j-street-conference/39370/comment-page-3/#comment-53051 Henry Weinstein Sat, 31 Mar 2012 02:06:31 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=39370#comment-53051 Very funny, and guys from +972 will say it's a spam: I write Check... et hop my comment is awaiting initial confirmation... Very funny, and guys from +972 will say it’s a spam: I write Check… et hop my comment is awaiting initial confirmation…

]]> By: Henry Weinstein http://972mag.com/watch-why-does-a-palestinian-speak-at-a-j-street-conference/39370/comment-page-3/#comment-53050 Henry Weinstein Sat, 31 Mar 2012 02:03:56 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=39370#comment-53050 Proofreading: http://www.checkpoint303.com/ On Facebook: http://facebook.com/CP303?sk=app_178091127385 Checkpoint 303, their BandPage is awesome!! Proofreading: http://www.checkpoint303.com/
On Facebook: http://facebook.com/CP303?sk=app_178091127385
Checkpoint 303, their BandPage is awesome!!

]]> By: Henry Weinstein http://972mag.com/watch-why-does-a-palestinian-speak-at-a-j-street-conference/39370/comment-page-3/#comment-53049 Henry Weinstein Sat, 31 Mar 2012 01:56:27 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=39370#comment-53049 Sinjim, check this: www.checkpoint303.com It's more my universe, I'm not an activist. They contacted me, because I'm friend of friends: Lebanon, Palestine. Sinjim, check this: http://www.checkpoint303.com
It’s more my universe, I’m not an activist.
They contacted me, because I’m friend of friends: Lebanon, Palestine.

]]> By: Henry Weinstein http://972mag.com/watch-why-does-a-palestinian-speak-at-a-j-street-conference/39370/comment-page-3/#comment-52983 Henry Weinstein Fri, 30 Mar 2012 19:56:45 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=39370#comment-52983 Sinjim, I didn't attack Haneen Zoabi's person, but MK Zoabi. And I said explicitely that my criticism were not personal. It's clear that her decision to enter in politics has a lot to do with her familial story, thus is worth scrutinizing. Furthermore if I expressed my opinion on MK Haneen Zoabi, it's because of +972's recent coverage on her. And also because of what I said in my first comment about Palestinian politicians. I don't think she incites much Israelis "to pressure their government to stop ensuring violent and authoritarian of Palestinian democratic actions", to cite your own words. Worse to my eyes: I don't think she incites at all Israelis to vote for another government, considering "as an official she represents the people who elected her", to cite your words again. That's my opinion, and it's a political opinion. . By independent thinkers, Palestinians or not, I mean intellectuals who think by themselves, express freely their own views, political and more, and are willing to shake-up their own side's Sacred Cows. Intellectual freedom & freedom of expression. Omar Rahman's late post here is the perfect example. They exist, but they don't have much space to express their own views. Maybe I'm wrong to conclude they don't have much freedom of expression. But it's hard for me to think otherwise considering they are monitored by anti-normalizers, one-sided activists. Sinjim, I didn’t attack Haneen Zoabi’s person, but MK Zoabi. And I said explicitely that my criticism were not personal. It’s clear that her decision to enter in politics has a lot to do with her familial story, thus is worth scrutinizing.
Furthermore if I expressed my opinion on MK Haneen Zoabi, it’s because of +972′s recent coverage on her. And also because of what I said in my first comment about Palestinian politicians.
I don’t think she incites much Israelis “to pressure their government to stop ensuring violent and authoritarian of Palestinian democratic actions”, to cite your own words. Worse to my eyes: I don’t think she incites at all Israelis to vote for another government, considering “as an official she represents the people who elected her”, to cite your words again. That’s my opinion, and it’s a political opinion.
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By independent thinkers, Palestinians or not, I mean intellectuals who think by themselves, express freely their own views, political and more, and are willing to shake-up their own side’s Sacred Cows. Intellectual freedom & freedom of expression.
Omar Rahman’s late post here is the perfect example.
They exist, but they don’t have much space to express their own views. Maybe I’m wrong to conclude they don’t have much freedom of expression. But it’s hard for me to think otherwise considering they are monitored by anti-normalizers, one-sided activists.

]]> By: Sinjim http://972mag.com/watch-why-does-a-palestinian-speak-at-a-j-street-conference/39370/comment-page-2/#comment-52809 Sinjim Fri, 30 Mar 2012 04:53:56 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=39370#comment-52809 Henry, I understood what you were saying, and I stand by my answer to you. If Israelis want to see a democratic leadership from the Palestinians, they should pressure their government to stop ensuring violent and authoritarian repression of Palestinian democratic actions, which are by no means in short supply. . The rest of your comment, unfortunately, is full of mischaracterizations and personal attacks. Attacking Zoabi for her family relations is not legitimate. She voices the concerns and criticisms that many, many Palestinians have of the Zionist state, and yes, as an elected official she represents the people who elected her — Palestinians. I applaud her and wish her nothing but success. . Beyond your criticisms of Zoabi's person, I have no idea what you're trying to say. I think you're saying that you want to hear from Palestinians who agree with your worldview, but frankly, I'm not sure that's what you're saying, especially in regards to "independent Palestinian thinkers." What does that even mean, and why are you telling me this? Do you want me to refer you to some of these "independent thinkers"? Are you asking me if they exist? Are you saying they don't exist and lamenting it? None of this clear from your comment. Henry, I understood what you were saying, and I stand by my answer to you. If Israelis want to see a democratic leadership from the Palestinians, they should pressure their government to stop ensuring violent and authoritarian repression of Palestinian democratic actions, which are by no means in short supply.
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The rest of your comment, unfortunately, is full of mischaracterizations and personal attacks. Attacking Zoabi for her family relations is not legitimate. She voices the concerns and criticisms that many, many Palestinians have of the Zionist state, and yes, as an elected official she represents the people who elected her — Palestinians. I applaud her and wish her nothing but success.
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Beyond your criticisms of Zoabi’s person, I have no idea what you’re trying to say. I think you’re saying that you want to hear from Palestinians who agree with your worldview, but frankly, I’m not sure that’s what you’re saying, especially in regards to “independent Palestinian thinkers.” What does that even mean, and why are you telling me this? Do you want me to refer you to some of these “independent thinkers”? Are you asking me if they exist? Are you saying they don’t exist and lamenting it? None of this clear from your comment.

]]> By: Henry Weinstein http://972mag.com/watch-why-does-a-palestinian-speak-at-a-j-street-conference/39370/comment-page-2/#comment-52752 Henry Weinstein Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:44:55 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=39370#comment-52752 Sinjim, thank you to answer and for taking the time to answer honestly and with substance. I would much prefer to discover and read viewpoints and analysis published by the democratic leaders you cited than to see Haneen Zoabi performing her talk-show to entertain the Israeli Far Right - how I could take seriously someone whose only political message is to say she is against Israel being a MK in Israel: I have nothing against her, but she is a living advertisement to vote Likud and worse. . But you clearly misunderstood my starting position, my intellectual departure - and it's worth to scrutinize this misunderstanding. I wasn't describing Israel the state, i.e the Israeli leadership, Sinjim, I was speaking explicitely from the point of view of the Israeli people, the Israeli Jews, the civil society. And I was thinking how to convince a majority of them to vote in the future for reformist leaders, instead of voting for far right nationalist & religious leaders. For instance, Haneen Zoabi has nothing to say to Israelis apart she is against Israel, there is nothing behind her criticisms, no substance. One can spend its life to denounce injustice and inequality - and Israel is not the only society which should do much better in this world -, but if one don't propose political solutions, new perspectives, the voters have no rational reason to trust your side, and to change their minds about the status-quo, even if you are pretty and funny. I cite her only because she is becoming a mascot on +972, and I deplore this. I would much prefer to read and hear independent Palestinian thinkers than the daughter of a rich family playing a role of composition. But I suppose most of them are trapped in the anti-normalization line, "don't talk to Israelis unless they join the struggle against Israel". Dead-end line. . There is also another important aspect in my previous comment: I spoke explicitely about the importance of freedom of expression & human rights, beyond voting for political parties, democratic elections. I live in a secular République which guarantee to its citizens freedom of association, France. And it's quite recent, 1901. Democracy is a big word, but the freedom to vote for politicians is not enough: see the Israeli system. Sinjim, thank you to answer and for taking the time to answer honestly and with substance. I would much prefer to discover and read viewpoints and analysis published by the democratic leaders you cited than to see Haneen Zoabi performing her talk-show to entertain the Israeli Far Right – how I could take seriously someone whose only political message is to say she is against Israel being a MK in Israel: I have nothing against her, but she is a living advertisement to vote Likud and worse.
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But you clearly misunderstood my starting position, my intellectual departure – and it’s worth to scrutinize this misunderstanding. I wasn’t describing Israel the state, i.e the Israeli leadership, Sinjim, I was speaking explicitely from the point of view of the Israeli people, the Israeli Jews, the civil society. And I was thinking how to convince a majority of them to vote in the future for reformist leaders, instead of voting for far right nationalist & religious leaders.
For instance, Haneen Zoabi has nothing to say to Israelis apart she is against Israel, there is nothing behind her criticisms, no substance. One can spend its life to denounce injustice and inequality – and Israel is not the only society which should do much better in this world -, but if one don’t propose political solutions, new perspectives, the voters have no rational reason to trust your side, and to change their minds about the status-quo, even if you are pretty and funny.
I cite her only because she is becoming a mascot on +972, and I deplore this. I would much prefer to read and hear independent Palestinian thinkers than the daughter of a rich family playing a role of composition.
But I suppose most of them are trapped in the anti-normalization line, “don’t talk to Israelis unless they join the struggle against Israel”. Dead-end line.
.
There is also another important aspect in my previous comment: I spoke explicitely about the importance of freedom of expression & human rights, beyond voting for political parties, democratic elections. I live in a secular République which guarantee to its citizens freedom of association, France. And it’s quite recent, 1901. Democracy is a big word, but the freedom to vote for politicians is not enough: see the Israeli system.

]]> By: Richard Witty http://972mag.com/watch-why-does-a-palestinian-speak-at-a-j-street-conference/39370/comment-page-2/#comment-52746 Richard Witty Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:10:45 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=39370#comment-52746 Ratified UN resolution (by both general assembly and security council). Every other assertion by human rights committee, or even ICJ are recommendations of law, not law yet. Ratified UN resolution (by both general assembly and security council).

Every other assertion by human rights committee, or even ICJ are recommendations of law, not law yet.

]]> By: directrob http://972mag.com/watch-why-does-a-palestinian-speak-at-a-j-street-conference/39370/comment-page-2/#comment-52706 directrob Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:55:30 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=39370#comment-52706 Richard, what in your eyes is an authoritative international legal entity? Richard, what in your eyes is an authoritative international legal entity?

]]> By: palestinian http://972mag.com/watch-why-does-a-palestinian-speak-at-a-j-street-conference/39370/comment-page-2/#comment-52682 palestinian Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:14:07 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=39370#comment-52682 @ Leen , we will be the Arabian South Africa ,but instead of 10% (colonists and their descendants)we will have the honor to have 34% (and not any 34%),if 2% can run 300 million people ,imagine 34% !!in brief no . @ Leen , we will be the Arabian South Africa ,but instead of 10% (colonists and their descendants)we will have the honor to have 34% (and not any 34%),if 2% can run 300 million people ,imagine 34% !!in brief no .

]]> By: Leen http://972mag.com/watch-why-does-a-palestinian-speak-at-a-j-street-conference/39370/comment-page-2/#comment-52676 Leen Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:49:37 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=39370#comment-52676 @Palestinian, I was referring to the make up of the country and not the cultural (formed on the fact that every emirate has a autonomy), which is why I included Turkey or Lebanon. I wasn't saying it would be literally the exact same thing. Like I said, we can discuss this for hours and days, but the fact remains we seriously have no clue how it would be. It is an extremely abstract discussion. @Palestinian, I was referring to the make up of the country and not the cultural (formed on the fact that every emirate has a autonomy), which is why I included Turkey or Lebanon. I wasn’t saying it would be literally the exact same thing.
Like I said, we can discuss this for hours and days, but the fact remains we seriously have no clue how it would be. It is an extremely abstract discussion.

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