UPDATE: According to a source who has approached +972 Magazine, Lt. Col. Shalom Eisner, who beat an activist in the face with his rifle (video below) is slated to be the next Deputy Commander of Bahad 1, the IDF’s school and training base for all of its officers
Here’s how we treat people who dare cycle where they’re not supposed to.
Yes, I said “cycle.” For this you are punished with a rifle to the head, in a bunt move that would make most major league baseball players jealous.
According to the WAFA news agency, “Israeli forces Saturday broke up with force a cycling tour around the Jordan Valley and assaulted the participants injuring and arresting a number of them.”
In this album of pictures on Facebook, one can clearly see this officer seemed to be in a pretty aggressive mood with more than one activist while walking around with his rifle in bunt position and a look that could kill.
17:05: I have requested a comment from the IDF spokesperson unit.
17:10: Just got this link, which shows a few 15 seconds before the hit:
17:40: According to this video from December 2011, the officer is the deputy commander of the Jordan Valley brigade, Shalom Eisner. In this clip he is thanking volunteers who help out in rescue operations.
20:17: Another picture from the event yesterday:
(photo: Hamzi Zbidat)
22:07: The IDF response:
The IDF Spokesperson’s unit said in response the event was very serious and that the Central Command chief had ordered a thorough investigation. “The inquiry will examine the circumstances which led to the incident documented in the video. Lessons will be drawn and the necessary steps will be taken.”
22:15: Praise for Lt. Col. Eisner is flooding the Israeli social media, here and here [Heb] for example.
22:30: A source who approached me and wishes to remain anonymous at this point has informed me that Lt. Col. Eisner is set to be the next deputy commander of Bahad 1 – the IDF’s training base for all of its officers. This piece of info could not be confirmed.
The IDF spokesperson in response: “We do not discuss IDF appointments in the media until they are signed and sealed. When appointments are confirmed, the media is notified.”
Leading Bahad 1 is considered to be one of the most prestigious jobs in the IDF. Some of its former commanders were Shaul Mofaz, Giora Eyland, Matan Vilnai, Elazar Stern and others who later became high-ranking generals or Chiefs of Staff. If Lt. Col. is reprimanded by the IDF for his conduct, this incident could block any future promotions.
The IDF might want to think twice if this is the kind of officer they want as an example to others.
22:35: Lt. Col. Shalom Eisner is the son of late Rabbi Benny Eisner [Heb], an icon of religious Zionism who also lived in th “Jewish House” in Abu Tor, East Jerusalem.
23:15: Haaretz brings response of National Union MK Michael Ben Ari:
“Well done to the IDF officer who did what Bibi and Aharonovich have no brain or courage to do,” Ben Ari said. “Radical leftists must be handled with a heavy hand. There was a tangible threat to the lives of the soldiers and the officer had no other choice. If it was a settler who was beaten we would not have heard the cries of the hypocrites on the left. Turns out they are not interested in human rights but the rights of terrorists and pro-Arabs.”
23:24: Amos Harel of Haaretz reports that Lt. Col. Eisner is to be suspended, yet says that in other similar cases a suspension does not necessarily mean the end of the officer’s career [Heb].
23:33: Lt. Col. Eisner responds: “I shouldn’t have raised my weapon like that, but those were 6 seconds out of two hours. Of course they didn’t show the part where they attacked us with sticks.”
00:07: PM Benjamin Netanyahu: “This behavior is not characteristic of IDF soldiers and commanders and should not be allowed in the IDF or in Israel.”
For additional original analysis and breaking news, visit +972 Magazine's Facebook page or follow us on Twitter. Our newsletter features a comprehensive round-up of the week's events. Sign up here.
max
@Greg, I agree with you: the bike trip was a non-violent provocation and the officer lost his temper, not knowing how to react; and yes, this site is also part of the non-violent opposition, though an openly one-sided channel…
.
@Annie & Devin – distortion does get you far when slandering and preaching to the uninitiated: no roads in Israel have restriction based on religion or ethnicity. It’s a lie.
Are you able to apologize?
TLA
@Devin: I know slander when I see it: “Hi TLA, I do not know why you are defending this act or as you said ” justified”. Its the second time out of your two comments that I’ve read that you’ve lied.
.
Does it mean that everyone who is against Israel on this site is a liar, or is it just you?
.
@Michael “I’ve seen people mention ‘Jew only roads’. Are tourists, foreign residents, and gentile Israelis not allowed on these roads?” – NO SUCH THING. There are no “Jew only roads”. There are roads where you cannot drive with Palestinian registration plates, and there are roads where you cannot drive with Israeli registration plates. No-one asks you for your religion. This separation is done because of the Palestinians’ tendency to shoot at moving targets with Israeli plates, and the settlers’ tendency not to like that.
Jack
TLA,
“no, I mean that the occupying force CAN declare a “peaceful unarmed” demonstration illegal. You asked if it is illegal – I explained why it very well may be. Nothing less and nothing more.”
-
That have nothing do with it anything because I thought we agree that it will never be justified to do what the soldier did.
-
“The fact that the suspect has been beaten says nothing to his innocence, just as with the Dens. Satisfied?”
-
He was detained because he had commited crimes, not because he got smashed unarmed in the head by a soldier.
-
“I totally agree with the last sentence. Apparently – so does IDF. For some reason you keep ignoring that.”
-
No you dont agree, you asked this rhetorically earlier:
“What would your local police force do in a similar situation?”
TLA
@Jack – yes, we agree that it was not justified. Can we agree now that the Dens aren’t necessarily innocent? To at least appear credible, you must understand that you cannot take a single side, and then claim justice. Doesn’t work. The officer has been punished, how about the Dens, what have they learned from the incident?
.
It seems that you (and vast majority of anti-Israeli propagandists here) are not interested in any discussion. I was told that the site is set up for propaganda purposes, but I was expected some discussions in the comments threads here, apparently I was expecting too much.
Jack
TLA,
“yes, we agree that it was not justified. Can we agree now that the Dens aren’t necessarily innocent?”
-
If its ok to punch him it must have been justified (according to law). The other soldiers showed restraint, this soldier did not, simple as that.
TLA
@Jack, Its getting late (actually, way past that, it starts to be getting early already), but I’ll get back to this discussion tomorrow.
.
In the meantime, instead of repeating meaningless sentences, try to consider a situation where the Dens might not be pure and innocent.
.
I’m NOT justifying the officer, and never had. What I am saying is that criticizing one without looking at the other makes you a hypocrite, diminishes your credibility, and shows in you in a light no better than a common Israeli settler.
.
I’m sure that’s not the impression you wanted to make if you want to convince anyone in anything.
Jack
TLA,
This is indeed gettin long overdue and I am no sure we are getting anywhere. A man used too much violence for the situation. What you are trying to do, is to glorify this soldier, trying to find a reason where the danish guy after all, got what he deserved.
Devin
Hi TLA, I am sorry if I offended you. I am not lier and I am assuring you I participated in this discussion just because I thought everybody needs to find the truth in this violent event. Please open your eyes and respect the people who wants to find the truth, they are not lier and they are not against Israel. I hope you can get off of this mood.
max
@devin, can you explain the root of your false assertion “South Africa had sign for White and Black, and Israel has for Jews and Arabs”?
TLA
@Jack, that is probably why the Israelis consider you guys morons… I’m not trying to glorify this soldier, what I’m saying has in fact nothing to do with him.
.
I’m saying that it may very well be (and according to the Israelis in fact is) that the Dens were not innocent. Why are you not considering this option?
.
I’ve already said that they should have been arrested, not hit, I don’t understand why you keep claiming I said stuff I never said.
.
@Devin, I’m not easily offended. You’re a liar, because you lied, and it has nothing to do with this event. I’m not going to read anything else from you as I have no intentions to hold discussions with dishonest people as you.
Jack
TLA,
You are simply not reading my messages.
You are trying to find a reason where it would be ok punch this danish guy over the month. You are looking for a justification. Of course there is no justification for such police brutality. Dont you understand? I am going to give you the definition of ‘jutification’.
-
“To demonstrate sufficient legal reason for (an action taken).”
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/justified
-
Thats what you are trying to do.
Jack
Max,
ID cards, coloring when it comes number plates on cars indicate who is driving.
TLA
Jack: “You are trying to find a reason where it would be ok punch this danish guy over the month. ” – NO. That is not what I’m trying to do. Forget about punching, we’ve established that it is wrong. Lets talk about the Dens.
.
Regardless of the treatment they’ve received, is it possible for you to conceive that they might have been wrong?
.
What I’m trying to show you is called, in legal jargon, circumstances. You cannot ignore that. There’s a vast difference between an offense committed premeditatedly with an intention to commit crime and an offense committed by a person who’s frustrated, who’s provoked a who has snapped.
.
In either of these cases the action is not justified, and despite your attempts to “quote” me saying otherwise – I’ve been agreeing with you on that from the beginning.
.
But circumstances DO matter. A frustrated peace officer punching a person harassing him for hours, ignoring orders and breaking the law does not deserve the same punishment and the same treatment as a person who woke up in the morning and decided to go out and punch some Dens.
.
You ignore my attempts obviously because you’re incapable of understanding that “your side” may not be perfect as well. It takes two to tango.
Jack
TLA,
“Regardless of the treatment they’ve received, is it possible for you to conceive that they might have been wrong?
”
-
Wrong about what?
You are trying to find something on the road of this debate to get your justification established, its obvious.
-
To make it simple.
1. The soldier attacked the man
2. Law wont accept such attacks
3. Therefore the attack were unjustified and the victim of course innocent of such treatment by this soldier.
TLA
@Jack – While I agree with you (and I keep agreeing with you from the beginning), I’m trying to understand what REALLY happened.
.
I DON’T BELIEVE a claim that the soldier woke up in the morning with an intention to hit a Danish cyclist. Any such claim would be a lie.
.
After we’ve established that the Dens shouldn’t have been hit AND that the soldier didn’t mean to hit them when he got there arises the question:
.
WHAT DID THE DENS DO?
.
Not surprisingly, I cannot find an answer to that on this site.
.
Israeli news reported, so I’ve been told, that the Dens attacked the soldier. I don’t know if its true, but since they reported something and nothing was reported here – I see no reason why not to believe them.
.
Defending self from an attack IS justified.
.
Now, can you please tell me what did the Dens do? It was an even of several hours, while on this site we only see a mere seconds of the video. To me it looks like a deliberate attempt to hide the actions of these Dens, and yes – it is suspicious in my eyes.
.
So no, I’m not justifying the hitting.
.
And no, I do not consider the Dens innocent.
Apa
@TLA,
I would agree with you that circumstances matter. However, not when it comes to people charged with upholding the peace.
It is their job, and it lies in the nature of the job that it will be frustrating. If this man can not keep his cool under difficult circumstances, why is he in charge of keeping a Palestinian-free road free from Palestinians?
Apa
@TLA
The Dane was innocent IN THAT PARTICULAR EVENT. The Dane posed no physical threat to the officer at that time that could possibly justify hitting him in the head with a rifle. There is never a reason for an officer of peace to hit a person who is not posing an immediate physical threat to the officer. Never. Doing so should be grounds for immediate dismissal.
Jack
TLA
“Defending self from an attack IS justified.”
-
The picture getting clearer and clearer, now you justified it again with the absurd “preemptive attack” logic.
TLA
@APA “The Dane posed no physical threat to the officer at that time that could possibly justify hitting him in the head with a rifle” – agreed, again. I’m not saying otherwise. What I said is that the Dens should have been arrested.
.
For some reason, it looks like the “activists” cannot discuss the wrong in their own actions (look at @Jake for example), so who gives you the right to criticize others?
.
@Jake – you’re again attempting to quote something I have never said. If you disagree that self defense is justified you would be lying.
.
However it seems like you’re deliberately avoiding discussing the Dens’ actions. Do you know something you don’t want others to discuss? That would, indeed, make the picture clearer.
Jack
TLA,
Sorry this discussion is going nowhere and we should end it, APA made a great point however you refused to accept it instead adhered to ad hominem.
max
Sure, Jack, and all Israelis, regardless of religion or ethnicity, have the same number plates
You either didn’t know it and claim knowledge where your ignorance is blatant, or you’re misleading… do you see a 3rd option?
TLA
@Jack, thanks for proving my point. When you’re available for a real discussion, the one were you actually listen to the other side and not keep repeatedly misquoting things I haven’t said, do tell.
.
In the mean time it seems like I’m able to take your point of view, you keep repeatedly refusing even considering the option of any other point of view to even exist. Anything that is not “Jack says” – is wrong in your opinion.
Jack
Max,
Do you deny ethnicity is stated on many ID cards?
Not in the occupied territories (regarding plates) which is “effective” in car checkpoints.
TLA
@Jack “Do you deny ethnicity is stated on many ID cards?” – yes, in fact. It is illegal to state ethnicity on the Israeli ID cards, and those who still have the old ones can change to new ones where the ethnicity is removed.
TLA
@Jack, besides, when I was in Israel, everyone I know had a driving license, which has no ethnicity at all, as an ID. I believe it is actually encouraged by the Police to have driving licenses as ID’s because they’re much harder to fake than the regular ID’s that could be printed on any printer at any home.
max
@Jack, I really admire your refusal to admit mistakes
Starting with a defense of a claim that in Israel there’re signs and roads for Jews and Arabs, switching to number plates and finally trying with ID cards: what a road 
I guess you could refer to it as flexibility and adaptability, or plain agility
Jack
Max,
Do you deny there different plates for palestinians in the occupied territories?
Do you deny the ethnicity is to be found on many ID cards?
You denied to approach these questions, why?
TLA
MAX, I thing there’s a word for that… PROPAGANDA. Its easy to tell lies to people who don’t bother checking, and then leave it to Israelis to explain why they did things they’ve never done.
.
Similarly to the attack on that officer – for some reason Jack repeatedly refuses to discuss what the Dens did there and why the officer was there to begin with, and only posted 6 seconds of video out of a 4-hours even.
.
Makes one wonder (those who still have the ability for critical thinking) what do these “activists” have to hide.
TLA
@Jack:
“Do you deny there different plates for palestinians in the occupied territories” – yes, issued by different entities. You know, there are different plates in the UK and France, now what does it tell us? Oh, I know! British have “No-French” roads! French have to show passports and get approved by the occupying police force at Dover! Away with the British!
.
What are you trying to claim? That the Palestinian Authority is a separate entity? Well, yes, it is. Why would they issue the same license plates as Israel?
Jack
TLA,
Ok thanks for admiting that you didnt have knowledge about this. The palestinians (occupied territors) have different plates than the israelis, these are as I said used to pinpoint special cars, for example in check points where jewish cars doesnt need to wait for hours to get through as palestinians. There are different roads where palestinians arent allowed to travel in the West Bank.
TLA
@Jack: “Ok thanks for admiting that you didnt have knowledge about this. ” – didn’t know what? I just told you what you’re reiterating.
.
“The palestinians (occupied territors) have different plates than the israelis” – BECAUSE PALESTINIANS ISSUE THEIR OWN PLATES!
.
Do you even bother to read?
Jack
TLA,
What matters of who issue their plates when they are being used to pinpoint palestinians in check points as you ignored to comment?
TLA
@Jack, so you now admit that “ethnicity” has nothing to do with that, but rather the government issuing the licenses?
.
In that case I do not understand your objection to the matter. Every government has a full right to prefer its own citizens over others. I’ve been to the EU, and with my non-EU passport I had to wait in line while the British and Dens passed by me without even a need for a passport.
.
So what’s right for EU, why shouldn’t it be right for Israelis?
Jack
TLA,
Ethnicity have to very much to do with it since its used by Israel to nab palestinians in check points just because of their ethnicity.
You dont have to wait just because you are a jew(?) in europe but because America or wherever you live isnt a EU-nation. It would be one thing if you were stopped because you were a jew, which is exactly what palestinians are approached in checkpoints (among many things).
TLA
@Jack – we just established that its the licensing agency, where did ethnicity come back from? Do Israeli Arabs have different license plates than the Israeli Jews? To the best of my knowledge, any such claim would be false, all the Israeli citizens have exactly the same kind of license plate, regardless of where they live or what god, if any, they believe. Something, by the way, that I cannot say about the US. We do have different licenses depending on where we live.
.
By the way – I DO have to wait in line JUST BECAUSE I’M NOT A EUROPEAN. It is EXACTLY the same.
max
Jack, do you know the difference between ethnicity, religion and nationality?
Jack
TLA,
I have never mentioned the plates for palestinians INSIDE of Israel.
-
European isnt a ethnicity. You have to wait in line when shopping groceries too, that isnt because of your ethnicity compared to palestinian situation.
TLA
@Jack, so we’re in agreement then? PA issues its own plates which are different from Israeli, and Israelis have preferential treatment to their own, on the account of foreigners (Palestinians or Dens, doesn’t matter).
.
I see no problem with that. That is exactly how any other country behaves, including the European Union, the US, and the Arab countries.
Jack
TLA,
No you have failed horrendously if you think we are in agreement, go back to my messages and ask something if you dont understand, I dont want to repeat myself on this.
TLA
@Jack, I don’t understand what we’re not agreeing upon.
.
1. PA issues its own license plates, Israel issues its own. So far agreed?
.
2. Israelis have check points in the West Bank areas that lay under the military rule. So far agreed?
.
3. Israelis have check points between the areas under military rule and the sovereign territory. So far agreed?
,
4. On all the checkpoints the Israelis give preferential treatment to cars with Israeli license plates. So far agreed?
.
5. Any country gives preferential treatments to its citizens at checkpoints based on the government-issued licensing document (plates, licenses, passports, ID’s, whatever).
.
1,2,3,4,5 is the summary of facts, I don’t think there’s much to discuss there.
.
Now to the interpretation:
.
You say that the fact that Israelis differentiate based on the identity of the government issuing the car license plates has something to do with ethnicity.
.
I fail to see the connection. I guess that’s what you need to explain. Otherwise, I see no difference between #4 and #5, which means that Israel does nothing wrong.
max
Jack,
1. you jumped into a discussion supporting the claim that Israel has separate Signs and Roads for Jews and Arabs.
I hope you don’t deny this.
2. The fact is, that Israel has neither signs nor roads based on religion or ethnicity, the 2 possible interpretations of Jewishness.
Do you pretend otherwise?
3. The fact is also, but this has nothing to do with your original claim, that Israelis face restrictions on some roads within ‘the territories’ and and on others Palestinians face restrictions.
The fact is also that the Israelis face stricter restrictions on these roads – they can’t drive there without permits – while the Palestinians only face security checks.
Do you recognize the difference between Israelis and Jews?
.
So what’s your grievance about?
Jack
TLA,
Yes the plates are being used by Israel to pinpoint palestinians. Thats generalizing people and and sum with other things (like special roads) one could argue there are apartheid tendencies.
-
Max,
Palestinians and Israelis arent equal, you have a occupier with obligations on this and and occupied people with no power what so ever. The checkpoints in West Bank are of course not a construction by or runned by palestinians.
max
Jack, I hope you’re not embarrassing yourself
PWL
…Proving that yesterday’s victims often become today’s oppressors. Now the Jews are treating the Palestinians the way the Nazis treated them.Ironic and sad.
“Ubermensch?” “Chosen People?” Two ways of saying the same thing?
Piotr Berman
“the bike trip was a non-violent provocation”
I think this statement is worth some parsing. What is called provocation here is asserting a right. Suppose that you are in a locality where local custom frowns upon females sitting in front of males in a bus. A woman may choose to assert her right to sit in front specifically to alter the custom that she does not agree with. To a person who “frowns upon” such behavior it is a provocation. Customs and laws evolve from such interactions. There is nothing inherently wrong in provocation/assertion of right, one has to address the issue if the claimed right is indeed a right.
In “flytilla” case, the issue is that nowhere one can find a regulation that Israeli visitor visa does not authorize visits to Palestinians in East Jerusalem and other occupied territories. Not at the website of Foreign Ministry, not at the website of Tourism Ministry. “Pro-Palestinian” organizations are legal and contacting them is legal. Thus activists were asserting their rights.
Note that in the absence of visible reaction “provocation” is not a provocation. Imagine that I want to visit friends in Algeciras and choose to fly to Gibraltar, and they greet me at the airport with a sign “Welcome in Spain”. British authorities could find it provocative but somehow I doubt it.
Bicyclists were asserting the right to use a public road. To me, the central point in judging the situation is how reasonable that expectation was. Authorities in Israel have a habit of impromptu prohibitions (Iran tolerates Western bicyclists with valid visas quite well, judging from posted reports of people touring Asia, Turkmenistan tolerates them well, Turks politely but with no discussion prohibited bikers from continuing toward a Kurdish area, but the diarist admitted that sounds from the prohibited zone indicated artillery fire).
TLA
@Jake – I respectfully disagree with this statement:
“Yes the plates are being used by Israel to pinpoint palestinians. Thats generalizing people and and sum with other things (like special roads) one could argue there are apartheid tendencies.”
.
Generalizing people based on their nationality is not “apartheid tendencies”, its what every country in the world does. I cannot understand why you’re attacking this particular issue. There are so many things that you can claim Israel has no right of doing, and yet the only thing you keep insisting upon being wrong is the one that EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD DOES.
TLA
Piotr, like Jake, you’re making a grave mistake assuming that visitors and citizens share the same rights.
.
While Rosa Parks had a legal standing against the State of Alabama, a black British citizen would be deported for the same offense, and it would be perfectly legal even though the offense itself has been proven to be unconstitutional.
.
Visitors to a country do not share the same rights and liberties as its citizens.
.
Once you acknowledge that, and the right of a country to deny entry to anyone for any reason, all your paragraphs about the “asserting their rights” lose the validity – there are no rights to assert.
Jack
TLA,
I didnt say generalizing people just in checkpoints are to consider as apartheid tendenicies but the rather the sum of many such cases in Israel. And you are wrong if you think every country to stop cars just because of the ethnicity of the driver.
TLA
@Jack – again ethnicity? What does license plate has to do with ethnicity? Nothing whatsoever, as you yourself admitted. PA Arabs and Israeli Arabs are of the same ethnicity, the license plates are a matter of citizenship/nationality.
.
I’m sorry if I’m pissing on your parade, but you singling out Israel and condemning on doing what is done by every country in the world, including yours, is pure racism.
Jack
TLA,
Sorry but now you are just repeating without reading my messages and since I dont want to repeat/spam, I will exit this dicussion with your with respect to this thread and valuable site.