Comments on: IDF soldiers enter village, kill Palestinian in drill gone awry http://972mag.com/undercover-idf-soldier-kills-palestinian-in-drill-goes-unpunished/42493/ Independent commentary and news from Israel & Palestine Tue, 18 Jun 2013 23:41:15 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Vicky http://972mag.com/undercover-idf-soldier-kills-palestinian-in-drill-goes-unpunished/42493/comment-page-1/#comment-58080 Vicky Mon, 23 Apr 2012 23:48:34 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=42493#comment-58080 TLA, +972 didn't say anything about an investigation either way - and to my knowledge, the IDF has made no definite pronouncement either. You went to Ynet and found this sentence: "After probing the incident, the IDF decided to relieve the soldier from duty, and he may face a Military Police investigation as well." You took that 'may' and it turned it into definite concrete fact: "It is also clearly stated in the YNET article that the dismissal is not the end of it, and there’s going to be a police investigation on the matter." . Now, in the absence of any IDF confirmation that such an investigation is going to take place, you ask Jennifer to provide proof that one won't. You also seem to be holding +972 to higher standards than the military spokespersons' unit - +972 is expected to report as fact something that the IDF hasn't declared, or else be accused of lying by you? . As for the Danish protesters breaking the law, it is remarkably easy to do that in the occupied Jordan Valley, because the civilian population is subject to martial law. Demonstrations of any kind are illegal under this law. The residents are also denied other basic civil rights, such as the ability to move around; a network of checkpoints, flying roadblocks, roads on which Palestinians are forbidden to travel, and arbitrary closures see to that. Inhabitants of a particular village may wake up one morning to find themselves living in an area that has just been declared a closed military zone, with no way of telling when the order will be lifted, so it's ironic that you chose 'blocking the road' as an example of a criminal offence that would have met with punishment elsewhere in the world. It is not possible to make out that the IDF were only acting as a police force elsewhere would act, because for one thing they aren't any other police force - they're an occupying military, enforcing military law, which for the people in this valley means home demolitions and midnight raids and a multitude of other horrors. You say that giving partial truth is as bad as lying, but in trying to make out that law enforcement in the West Bank is identical to law enforcement in other countries, you are only giving a very partial representation of the situation yourself. TLA, +972 didn’t say anything about an investigation either way – and to my knowledge, the IDF has made no definite pronouncement either. You went to Ynet and found this sentence: “After probing the incident, the IDF decided to relieve the soldier from duty, and he may face a Military Police investigation as well.” You took that ‘may’ and it turned it into definite concrete fact: “It is also clearly stated in the YNET article that the dismissal is not the end of it, and there’s going to be a police investigation on the matter.”
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Now, in the absence of any IDF confirmation that such an investigation is going to take place, you ask Jennifer to provide proof that one won’t. You also seem to be holding +972 to higher standards than the military spokespersons’ unit – +972 is expected to report as fact something that the IDF hasn’t declared, or else be accused of lying by you?
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As for the Danish protesters breaking the law, it is remarkably easy to do that in the occupied Jordan Valley, because the civilian population is subject to martial law. Demonstrations of any kind are illegal under this law. The residents are also denied other basic civil rights, such as the ability to move around; a network of checkpoints, flying roadblocks, roads on which Palestinians are forbidden to travel, and arbitrary closures see to that. Inhabitants of a particular village may wake up one morning to find themselves living in an area that has just been declared a closed military zone, with no way of telling when the order will be lifted, so it’s ironic that you chose ‘blocking the road’ as an example of a criminal offence that would have met with punishment elsewhere in the world. It is not possible to make out that the IDF were only acting as a police force elsewhere would act, because for one thing they aren’t any other police force – they’re an occupying military, enforcing military law, which for the people in this valley means home demolitions and midnight raids and a multitude of other horrors. You say that giving partial truth is as bad as lying, but in trying to make out that law enforcement in the West Bank is identical to law enforcement in other countries, you are only giving a very partial representation of the situation yourself.

]]> By: TLA http://972mag.com/undercover-idf-soldier-kills-palestinian-in-drill-goes-unpunished/42493/comment-page-1/#comment-58041 TLA Mon, 23 Apr 2012 20:03:45 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=42493#comment-58041 @Jennifer, is there any reliable quote you can show me that there was no investigation? . If not - then my point stands: +972.COM deliberately lied. @Jennifer, is there any reliable quote you can show me that there was no investigation?
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If not – then my point stands: +972.COM deliberately lied.

]]> By: TLA http://972mag.com/undercover-idf-soldier-kills-palestinian-in-drill-goes-unpunished/42493/comment-page-1/#comment-58040 TLA Mon, 23 Apr 2012 20:00:15 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=42493#comment-58040 Annie, my point was that this site is not credible, they lie, they provide selective information, and they only want you to think in one direction. . You may be right saying that the IDF shouldn't be practicing in a civilian area, but that's not what the article is trying to say. . The impression from the article is that it is the Palestinians who are being used as props, and that if something happens - the soldiers go unpunished. . Both claims are false, hence my point: This site is full of LIES. . This is a propagandist site, paid for by the terrorists, and most of the commenters here are on a payroll, obviously. . People who have minimal critical thinking skills will see right through it just as I did. I came here without knowing anything about this site, just because I was told I can read news from Israel here. After being able to show that none of the articles I've read so far is in any way objective or reliable just from my own personal knowledge, I can surely spread the word now: nothing you read here can be trusted. Most of what you read here is not news, its highly subjective and single-sided opinions. . Facts that are reported here are deliberately chosen and taken out of their contexts to fit the propagandists' agenda. Facts that don't fit that agenda will not be reported here, thus the truth is distorted. Sometimes, saying partial truth is worse than lying. Look at the example of the Danish criminals hit by the IDF soldier. Yes, he shouldn't have hit them. But in their own country they would be jailed for what they've done (blocking a highway, a criminal offense), yet when in Israel they're shown as "poor peaceful activists". Annie, my point was that this site is not credible, they lie, they provide selective information, and they only want you to think in one direction.
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You may be right saying that the IDF shouldn’t be practicing in a civilian area, but that’s not what the article is trying to say.
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The impression from the article is that it is the Palestinians who are being used as props, and that if something happens – the soldiers go unpunished.
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Both claims are false, hence my point: This site is full of LIES.
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This is a propagandist site, paid for by the terrorists, and most of the commenters here are on a payroll, obviously.
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People who have minimal critical thinking skills will see right through it just as I did. I came here without knowing anything about this site, just because I was told I can read news from Israel here. After being able to show that none of the articles I’ve read so far is in any way objective or reliable just from my own personal knowledge, I can surely spread the word now: nothing you read here can be trusted. Most of what you read here is not news, its highly subjective and single-sided opinions.
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Facts that are reported here are deliberately chosen and taken out of their contexts to fit the propagandists’ agenda. Facts that don’t fit that agenda will not be reported here, thus the truth is distorted. Sometimes, saying partial truth is worse than lying. Look at the example of the Danish criminals hit by the IDF soldier. Yes, he shouldn’t have hit them. But in their own country they would be jailed for what they’ve done (blocking a highway, a criminal offense), yet when in Israel they’re shown as “poor peaceful activists”.

]]> By: Jack Foreigner http://972mag.com/undercover-idf-soldier-kills-palestinian-in-drill-goes-unpunished/42493/comment-page-1/#comment-57434 Jack Foreigner Thu, 19 Apr 2012 22:51:13 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=42493#comment-57434 Thank you for your rebuttals, Jennifer and Annie. They help an outsider like myself understand better the situation. Thank you for your rebuttals, Jennifer and Annie. They help an outsider like myself understand better the situation.

]]> By: dickerson3870 http://972mag.com/undercover-idf-soldier-kills-palestinian-in-drill-goes-unpunished/42493/comment-page-1/#comment-57402 dickerson3870 Thu, 19 Apr 2012 20:01:11 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=42493#comment-57402 RE: "The IDF has been practicing on Palestinians for months now, perhaps years, and this time the practice went bad. . ." ~ Gurvitz FROM URI AVNERY, 9/03/11: (excerpt)...The second (“al-Aqsa”) intifada started after the breakdown of the 2000 Camp David conference and Ariel Sharon’s deliberately provocative “visit” to the Temple Mount. The Palestinians held non-violent mass demonstrations. The army responded with selective killings. A sharpshooter accompanied by an officer would take position in the path of the protest, and the officer would point out selected targets – protesters who looked like “ringleaders”. They were killed. This was highly effective. Soon the non-violent demonstrations ceased and were replaced by very violent (“terrorist”) actions. With those the army was back on familiar ground... RE: “The IDF has been practicing on Palestinians for months now, perhaps years, and this time the practice went bad. . .” ~ Gurvitz

FROM URI AVNERY, 9/03/11: (excerpt)…The second (“al-Aqsa”) intifada started after the breakdown of the 2000 Camp David conference and Ariel Sharon’s deliberately provocative “visit” to the Temple Mount. The Palestinians held non-violent mass demonstrations. The army responded with selective killings. A sharpshooter accompanied by an officer would take position in the path of the protest, and the officer would point out selected targets – protesters who looked like “ringleaders”. They were killed.
This was highly effective. Soon the non-violent demonstrations ceased and were replaced by very violent (“terrorist”) actions. With those the army was back on familiar ground…

]]> By: annie http://972mag.com/undercover-idf-soldier-kills-palestinian-in-drill-goes-unpunished/42493/comment-page-1/#comment-57360 annie Thu, 19 Apr 2012 17:48:11 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=42493#comment-57360 this is so disgusting what will you think of next! and what kind of lame brain thinks an excuse is "What +972 doesn’t mention is that IDF is practicing in Israeli towns just as well." so what? you want to murder your own citizens as props in a military excercise do it in your own town, that's fine. but don't go using palestinians villages to practice invading palestinians villages. excuse me! make yourself a mock village for heaven's sake or do it in israel. the occupation is not your playground for whatever paintball game you want to play, with real weapons. you wanna tell me israel allows "palestinians to practice in Israeli towns just as well"? and if they happen to look like burglars and shoot one of your citizens, no biggie! dismiss the palestinian soldier. oh no, i'm sure you'd never brag about that and THAT would be the equivalent. not some other circumstance where you know very very very well an innocent jew in a jewish village would NOT have been gunned down in a similar circumstance. why are they even USING real weapons? this is sickening the disregard for human life. what is wrong with people who become so desensitised they even consider rationalizing this kind of action????? is there no limit?! this is so disgusting what will you think of next!
and what kind of lame brain thinks an excuse is “What +972 doesn’t mention is that IDF is practicing in Israeli towns just as well.” so what? you want to murder your own citizens as props in a military excercise do it in your own town, that’s fine. but don’t go using palestinians villages to practice invading palestinians villages.
excuse me! make yourself a mock village for heaven’s sake or do it in israel. the occupation is not your playground for whatever paintball game you want to play, with real weapons.
you wanna tell me israel allows “palestinians to practice in Israeli towns just as well”? and if they happen to look like burglars and shoot one of your citizens, no biggie! dismiss the palestinian soldier. oh no, i’m sure you’d never brag about that and THAT would be the equivalent. not some other circumstance where you know very very very well an innocent jew in a jewish village would NOT have been gunned down in a similar circumstance. why are they even USING real weapons? this is sickening the disregard for human life. what is wrong with people who become so desensitised they even consider rationalizing this kind of action????? is there no limit?!

]]> By: Rechavia Berman http://972mag.com/undercover-idf-soldier-kills-palestinian-in-drill-goes-unpunished/42493/comment-page-1/#comment-57282 Rechavia Berman Thu, 19 Apr 2012 12:29:08 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=42493#comment-57282 Yup. Yup.

]]> By: the other joe http://972mag.com/undercover-idf-soldier-kills-palestinian-in-drill-goes-unpunished/42493/comment-page-1/#comment-57246 the other joe Thu, 19 Apr 2012 09:07:14 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=42493#comment-57246 Anyone else think it odd that Israelis can be prosecuted for simply being in Area A, yet soldiers without even the figleaf of doing something legitimate (such as trying to arrest someone) can wander around in drag. Could the PA Police have arrested them? What would have happened then? Anyone else think it odd that Israelis can be prosecuted for simply being in Area A, yet soldiers without even the figleaf of doing something legitimate (such as trying to arrest someone) can wander around in drag. Could the PA Police have arrested them? What would have happened then?

]]> By: Rechavia Berman http://972mag.com/undercover-idf-soldier-kills-palestinian-in-drill-goes-unpunished/42493/comment-page-1/#comment-57242 Rechavia Berman Thu, 19 Apr 2012 08:35:36 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=42493#comment-57242 Shlomo - yes, very apt, except Israel would gladly allow its Helots to run away. But you're not the first... Shlomo – yes, very apt, except Israel would gladly allow its Helots to run away. But you’re not the first…

]]> By: Branko http://972mag.com/undercover-idf-soldier-kills-palestinian-in-drill-goes-unpunished/42493/comment-page-1/#comment-57237 Branko Thu, 19 Apr 2012 08:13:42 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=42493#comment-57237 Weren't the Palestinians entitled to protect their property under the Dromi law? Weren’t the Palestinians entitled to protect their property under the Dromi law?

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