48 comments for ”Publisher’s Obama assassination call tips ‘Israel-firsters’ debate“

    
  1. I would headline this article “one paragraph about what the headline says, the rest just me bashing Jeffrey Goldberg”.

    It would behoove the 972 crowd not to regard people like Jeffrey Goldberg as the enemies of the Israeli left. Those to the right of him are extremists, and those to his left are outside of the mainstream of Jewish American politics and ultimately not a significant force/movement.

  2. 
  3. The degree to which the Israel First Lobby controls the US government will be clearly demonstrated when we see this guy is not arrested or indicted, which would certainly be the case if he had been Muslim.

  4. 
  5. You understanding of American Jewry is shallow and insignificant.

  6. 
  7. “It is worth noting that Adler is a Chabadnik, i.e. a member of a religious faction which has already shown an unhealthy interest in assassinations.”
    Show me proof please?

  8.  
  9. Jonathan Pollard was betrayed by the USA. The court did not honor the plea agreement that was made. Further, the USA did not honor the information treaty between the USA and Israel. Jonathan Pollard, acting from conscience, gave to Israel the information that Israel was in danger from neighboring countries after telling his supervisor that told him something like “the Jews don’t have to know about that”.

  10. 
  11. Yes, they sure do exist. This is what we live with in the States. It’s an act of treason to call for the assasination of a President. The fact that this guy can apologize and and not get arrested is a prime example of our government placing Israeli interests first. This is why Obama won’t see a second term unless he steals the election like Bush did. We are sick of the wars, we are devastated by the depression, losing homes, jobs and everything we have so the military can have more to send to ungrateful countries like Israel. The fact that Israel recently took our rockets, turned around and sold them to China tells me all I need to know about Israel’s motives. Again, our government did nothing. Israeli’s should just show up at our doors and take whatever we have left.

  12. 
  13. Fascinating article. A question: Will you please give a direct rendering of the oath that forms a basis of this story?
    Thank you.

  14. 
  15. Anyone who knows Chadad, understands that they are different form Gush Emunim. Harry Shapiro was a member f Gush Emunim, not Chabad

  16. 
  17. These events aren’t isolated. The fact that Adler’s column appeared so shortly after the latest assassination of Iranian scientists will give it some credibility in many minds. The fact is, the Mossad is Israel’s Murder, Inc, routinely conducting assassinations worldwide.

    .
    And it has revived in the some minds the persistent conspiracy theory that it was the Mossad who orchestrated the hit on JFK.

  18. 
  19. Back in the late 1980s the leader and founder of the Chabad was defended by the law firm AG&P against some rather serious criminal charges. Show the moral level of the outfit.

  20. 
  21. Why should one put the interests of one’s country first ? What an incredibly reactionary position ! I’m no chabadnik, nor likudnik, nor greater israelnik: I’m sure my politics are at least as left wing as yours (Yossi Gurvitz) are. But American Jews should swear ‘a loyalty oath’ to the U.S ?

    It always amuses me, that whenever tactical fights break out between the U.S and Israel, leftists almost reflexively take the side of the U.S. The U.S is responsible for literally thousands of times more death and suffering in the world than is Israel; and not to mention, as Noam Chomsky constantly points out, that Israel’s crimes against the Palestinians are only made possible by U.S. support. For leftists to defend the U.S against Israel is the height of hypocrisy.

  22. 
  23. Jeffrey Goldberg is Bibi’s Personal Butt Boy. Always was. Always will be. Damn boy has a little string with a hook on the end protruding out the back of his neck and visions of Abe Foxman’s offshore bank accounts dancing in his head.

  24. 
  25. Wow! And here I thought the Jews voted for Obummer. Its actually refreshing to see one of them going against the liberal grain. Of course calling for assassination is way over the top, but there’s no doubt that America can’t afford another four years of that Obamination.

  26. 
  27. There is a legitimate discussion to be had about US policy toward Israel Nd the Middle East. And there is a legitimate discussion to be had about the determinants of US foreign policy decision-making. And yes, the term anti-Semitism gets thrown around far too much, like many other terms in political discourse lately (e.g., Nazi, genocide), though there are genuine anti-Semites out there. And though Israel Firster gets thrown around way too much as well, there are US citizens who do put Israel’s interests before America’s. But we already have a term for people like that: spies and traitors. This is the term we apply to members of any ethnic, religious, or other group–including Anglos. There is no reason for a separate term to refer to specifically to Jews (which is where the term is primarily directed). The use of such labels drowns out legitimate policy discussions, and makes dialogue across different groups impossible. Can’t we just move on?

  28. 
  29. Forgot to ask: What are the odds, offered by Shelly Adelson’s casino in Vegas, that Goldie will even mention Andrew Adler in either his Bloomberg column or his blog at The Atlantic?

    Oh, and what are the odds that Goldie’s pals in the Georgetown and Hamptons Cocktail Club, also known as the D.C. and New York City press corps, will push Goldie in the slightest to write about Adler?

    You think Andrew Sullivan’s going to mention it? Or Daniel Drezner? Or Eli “He Lie” Lake? Or Jenny Rubin? Or John P. Normanson and the rest of the cast at Commentary? Or Kristol’s Klub at The Sub Standard?

  30. 
  31. YG writes: “They put Israel’s interests – or, to be more precise, Greater Israel’s interest – ahead of their country’s.” I think it was more precise the first way. There are plenty of Israel-firsters or dual loyalists who don’t support control over the Whole Land of Israel.
    §
    I think people are way too interested in exposing anti-Semitism, anyway. Michael Neumann, who’s passionately anti-Israel but not anti-Semitic, has written insightfully on this. But since the question’s been raised, I think “Israel firster” and the whole dual loyalty charge are used anti-Semitically in effect if not in intent. That’s because, while they’re not often used against all Jews, they’re used almost exclusively against Jews. In those cases when the charge is made against gentiles, the implication is usually that they’re just flunkies of the Jewish Zionists. I might be wrong about this, so correct me if I am, but it seems that nobody accuses Rick Santorum, for instance, of having dual loyalty to Israel, although he’s just as fanatically pro-Israel – loyal to Israel, if loyalty has any meaning at all – as Jeffrey Goldberg, Norman Podhoretz, and all those other super-Zionist Jews. People attack Santorum’s nutty policies on Israel, but they don’t accuse him of dual loyalty. Similarly with other fanatic Christian Zionists. In that sense, the accusation is more anti-Semitic than a lot of people think.

  32. 
  33. Brent Sasley – and why do we need a Jew-specific term like “antisemitism” when plain old bigotry will do?

    .
    The problem isn’t with the Pollards of the world. It’s with the Cantors, Schumers, Kirks and Liebermans in the US Congress, and with the billionaires like Adelson whose contributions buy their seats.

  34. 
  35. Aaron – you’re wrong. In post above, I explicitly listed Mark Kirk among the Israel Firsters, and Kirk afaik is not Jewish. The entire field Republican candidates, with the exception of Ron Paul, is Israel-Firster.

    .
    But no one will ever SAY SO. They’re afraid. Because there are too many servants of Israel who will turn on them if they do, with accusations of antisemitism.

  36. 
  37. By documenting the true feelings/opinions covertly shared by many Jews, that Obama hasn’t murdered enough in behalf of our “ally,” this Andrew Adler provokes comments similar to:

    Now just imagine a Muslim American expressing similiar thoughts!”

    EXACTLY! Or, imagine if any of these five were Muslims: Oded Ellner, Paul Kurzberg, Sivan Kurzberg, Omer Marmari or Yaron Shmue! Does anyone believe that if these five Mossad thugs were Muslims (of any national origin) that Michael Chertoff would merely have sent them home on “immigration violations”?!

  38. 
  39. Am I the only one who find this weird to be discussing whether an American’s first loyalty is to Israel on an Israeli blog?

  40. 
  41. Aaron, your argument that the term ‘Israel Firster’ is only ever going to be used about Jews or people (nutcase Christians) who are making claims based on Judaism is the definition of a tautology. Who else would it be used by/about? You could try the exact same argument about the term ‘anti-semitism’, but I doubt many of us would deny that that exists. I appreciate ‘Israel Firster’ can be used anti-semitically, but it isn’t inherently so.
    .
    Michael: not as weird as the fact that I’m from the UK and am still getting involved. On a Saturday night.

  42. 
  43. Adler should be imprisoned for urging anyone even in a “parody” to shoot the president.

    But, Gurvitz (sorry to use your last name, your post was grossly offensive to me) should be criticized for generalizing about the chabad movement, and then publishing his generalization, his implication that they should be dismissed or silenced, or that they are anywhere near monolithic.

    I am an assertively liberal Zionist Jew. I pray with the chabad community in my home town. My son is a chabadnik.

    I’ve heard racism uttered by chabadniks, and I’ve seen chabadniks protect victims of racism.

    If you want to influence the world for the best, you would encourage a vigorous religious discussion on the treatment of Palestinians, and on the concept of defense of Israel, and empower and encourage those voices that assert a religiously based kindness towards neighbors, including within Chabad. And, they are there.

    Not a contempt of religious discussion at all.

  44. 
  45. Also, the proclivity to take potshots at “types” (Goldberg) is not what I look for in reasoned political discussion.

  46. 
  47. Carl, my point was that “Israel firster” and “dual loyalty” charges are *not* often made against Christian Zionists. In absolute numbers, the vast majority of fanatic Zionists in America are Christian. They are at least as dual-loyalist as are Jewish Zionists. But “dual loyalty” is in practice applied almost exclusively to Jews. Again, I’m just noting that, I’m not getting all upset about it or anything.

  48. 
  49. Mr. Adler is not a Chabadnik. He is not even Orthodox. Apparently he steps into a Chabad synaogoue once a year for High Holiday services. This headline is simply a lie.

  50. 
  51. I live in California and know many Jewish Americans, most of them close friends. I do have to say that every Jewish person I have ever known would put Israel’s interests before the US’s interests. This is not to say that any one of them would ever consider a threat against the President appropriate. But every Jewish person I know would put Israel first. Incidentally, this is not unique to Jewish people. Most ethnic groups living here root for the sports teams in their countries of origin, even over the US. Roots just don’t run that deep. The thing is, where I live, I don’t see my Jewish friends as distinct from other Americans, having themselves lived in the US for generations, so the allegiance to Israel has always confused me a bit. Of course I’d expect a recent arrival turned US citizen from Israel to have that allegiance, but not so strongly with people whose families have been in the US since long before the Holocaust. Truth is, nationalistic feelings just don’t seem to run that deep here in the US.

  52. 
  53. The picture of him without a yarmulke even is a giveaway.

    Not all chabadniks dress in black, but I’ve not seen one without a yarmulke, ever.

  54. 
  55. What happened to the Larry Derfner article on the same content?

  56. 
  57. Israel Firsters demeaned use of “anti-Semite” and other terms characterizing Jewish behavior long before “Israel Firsters” was coined. They successfully conspired to twist the English language to impede communication. Acceptable use of “Jew” has also been restricted to narrow context. “Israel Firster” is a needed description to be welcomed and used.

  58. 
  59. Israel Firster Andrew Adler has published a suggestion that may inspire any Lee Harvey Oswald or cover a Mossad impersonator thereof. Israel has made itself into an isolated militant supremacist theocracy/ethnocracy with ICBM nukes; a very real and rapidly increasing threat to itself and to the whole world. A pariah among nations. Justice demands that UN and NATO impose resolution just as involuntary, disruptive and humiliating to Israel as Israel has wreaked upon occupied Palestine for generations. The Jewish State must be made to recognize an armed Palestine with externally enforced autonomy, eviction of all settlers, true contiguity encompassing Gaza, the West Bank and Jerusalem together, neither pinched nor parceled, and pay punitive reparations.

  60. 
  61. Taking Ron Austin’s point, in my neck of the woods, I know more than a few Americans who already put their respective loyalties to the Boston Red Sox, John Deere lawn tractors, cheap beer, and cheating on their annual income taxes ahead of their loyalty to the United States.

    The only difference with this crowd is that none of these people, to my knowledge, have pondered the state-sanctioned assassination of the president (or their least-favorite relief pitcher, neighbor, bartender, or accountant) or continually call for the release of the “victim”, one Jonathan Pollard.

    I do not wish to make light of the “Israel Firster” issue. That’s not my point. Just consider how loyalty to Israel has been so twisted, manipulated, and quite frankly uprooted and turned on its veritable head by a number of people who wish to differentiate not only who is truly committed to the state, but, even more important, who can make this assessment in the first place. That’s why Jeffrey Goldberg and his crowd will chastise anyone who dares to use the term “Israel Firster”, but readily and historically themselves write and speak on the matters of both Jewish loyalty and how they may make this determination.

    The password, my friends, is not anti-Semite. The password is hypocrite. Mr. Goldberg, John P. Normanson, Jennifer Rubin, Abe Foxman, Willie Kristol, Lucianne Goldberg’s boy, Al Dershowitz, and all the rest have created and profited quite nicely in their self-made worlds of hypocrisy. We suffer collectively as a result of this fact.

  62. 
  63. Ron Austin: Then why don’t you and your Jewish friends make aliyah? If you would place your loyalty to Israel above that of your ‘home’ country? And don’t spread the BS that it is because ‘roots’ don’t run deep. You are a hypocritical racist masquerading as an American. And don’t try to tell me that it is because of loyalty to the state of Israel, it is because you are loyal to the idea of a ‘Jewish’ state.
    That is the heart of the problem. The inability of many Jews to recognize the inescapable fact of ‘a state is a state, nothing more’. That one can claim a state should be immune from criticism, or even despised as a state whether Jewish or not. The fantasy of ‘ethnic’ or religious separation should never make one immune from sanctions they most would deem just. The real pity is how many accept those are posers like Ron? Jews who would never be as honest with goy neighbors or ‘friends’ about their views as they are with ‘Jewish’ friends? For if a Jew, pr anyone else for that matter,are not as honest with all, then aren’t the old stereotypes valid? That Jews hold no loyalty to their countrymen but only to other Jews? I(f one doesn’t admit to that fact, then Jews like Ron are a hypocrites buttressing the stereotypes of Jews so prevalent around the world. And whining about ‘anti semitism and persecution should be met with utter contempt.
    The real pity in this story is the double standards. This story has not been published in the main stream media within the US, unlike the treatment it would have received if a Muslim had called for Obama’s assassination. And,the transparent lie of this being a ‘parody’ is laughable as an excuse. this was not a parody, unless the call for the killing of Iranians or Hezbollah or Hamas was also a parody. The condemnation of the story by major Jewish groups is unheard, lest it be publicized. And the questions of ‘Israel-first’ which should ensue, are excused by this omission. For if the story was publicized, the non-condemnation would most probably prove detrimental to the “Jewish’ and or Zionist cause. I have often wondered how Zionism became conflated with Judaism? Is it part and parcel of the religion, a political offshoot, or an aberration? It seems more and more of the former.

  64. 
  65. Finally maybe people with start to see Israel for the cowards and bullies they really are. Don’t get me wrong I’m not for Islam or Jews but it disgusts me how anytime Israel wants something done they demand it of the west as if we are their slaves. I say screw Israel let them stick up for themselves for once.

  66. 
  67. Has 972 considered hiring Andrew Adler. Given both 972 and Adler are enemies of the zionist entity, it would be a match made in heaven. As the headhunter who made this match possible, I would like one months of Herr Adlers salary

  68. 
  69. Ron, are you of Iranian descent? If not, why have you become an Iran firster?

  70. 
  71. The only thing this proves is that at least one American Jew is a moron.
    ~
    I wonder if anyone would have considered an American enlisting in the UK army before the US joined the war a “British Firster”.

  72. 
  73. The term “Israel First” is not rhetoric used to described spies like Pollard, attention-seeking idiots like Adler, people who do a term of service with the Israeli Army, or olim. Gurwitz’s main point is moot, and it makes him look clueless… though not as clueless an op-ed writer as Adler.

  74. 
  75. Option 1. Remove this irresponsible idiot from his position. 2. Close down his irresponsible rag. Option 3. Deport this ignorant person.

  76. 
  77. Michael W – Americans enlisting in overseas militaries to fight the Nazis were often called “premature anti-fascists.”

  78. 
  79. As expected, Jeffrey Goldberg remains silent on this issue. Goldberg refuses to address the topic on his blog at The Atlantic or his column at Bloomberg. Small wonder.

    Like Gump before him, Run, Jeffrey, run!

  80. 
  81. Anti-Semitic and bash Israel firsters get to spew their filth in the name of selective free press.

  82. 
  83. And Glenn Greenwald supported both of George W. Bush’s wars. Does that still make him a war cheerleader? Your logic, not mine.

    And by the way, if you’re going to rake Abe Foxman over the coals as an “Armenian Holocaust denier,” you can drag “Armenian Holocaust denier,” Cenk Uygur through the same fire pit.

    Except he was actually more vocal.

    http://thedp.com/index.php/article/1991/11/column_historical_fact_or_falsehood

  84. 
  85. About Jews who feel more connected to Israel then to the USA – well of course there are ppl who feel that way, that’s why they make Aliyah eventually. But this is completely unrelated to conspiring to murder your president. For that, Adler can be shot as a traitor. Even here in Israel, he would have found himself in jail for incitement. The only line of defense he could maintain on his trial and that just might work out for him, is that he is an idiot.

  86. 
  87. This is a glaring example of why, in America, ‘no group or nationality’ should ever be granted the right to – Duel Citinship!

    Allen J. Duffis – Editor- The Conservative Independent – http://www.conserveind.com

  88. 
  89. This is a glaring example of why, in America, ‘no group or nationality’ should ever be granted the right to – Duel Citizenship!

    Allen J. Duffis – Editor- the Conservative Independent – http://www.conserveind.com

  90. 
  91. I’m not an Obama supporter, but cut all the psycho-babble and crap. Adler is a dangerous terrorist and should be thrown into jail and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

  92. 
  93. ARISTEIDES wrote: “And it has revived in the some minds the persistent conspiracy theory that it was the Mossad who orchestrated the hit on JFK.”

    This ARISTEIDES person sure echos opinions found on neo-nazi message boards. Not sure what to make of that.



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