21 comments for ”This is the occupation: A letter from a reasonable woman“

    
  1. I am surprised this outraged person didn’t identify his or herself. That is because this doesn’t sound like a heartfelt revelation of the discovery of a new reality, but rather a political leaflet.
    For example, the shocked revelation that Hevron supposedly is a city “that once teemed with life and whose markets and houses which are now desolate”. This description is so far from reality I have to wonder if this person really visited there. The Jews live in about 3% of Hevron. The vast majority of the city is under Palestinian rule and Jews are not allowed to go there. Ten of thousands of Arabs go about their daily lives in Hevron outside of this small corner of the city where the Jewish community resides, and of course, there are Arabs living in that area as well.

    The upshot of this tract is the fact that one who ascribes to be a “liberal” or a “humanist” or a “progressive” has to confront the fact that being a Zionist is no longer compatible with this. Because, whereas Yeshayahu Leibowitz felt immense self-righteous anger at Israel’s presence in the West Bank, he didn’t seem to feel any remorse at coming from Latvia or Lithuania or wherever it was and coming to pre-State Palestine without the permission of the Arab population and helping build Israel which the Arabs view as perpetrating the Nakba. To Leibowitz’s credit, his grandson, Shammai, did reach the logical conclusion that one can not be a Zionist and a “universalist Progressive humanist” at the same time so he emigrated from Israel. When will the supposed writer of this tract reach the same conclusion?

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  3. So here we have two sides of the tale. The humanist and the tribalist.

    For both the following is true: “I am responsible for my actions, or inaction in the face of what I see and experience”.

    It may be that tribalism, and by extension nationalism, is imprinted on our genes. But for those who are capable of independent thought, the common humanity of “the other” outweighs the weight of paranoia and fear encouraged by our national and religious leaders.

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  5. you know BenIsrael, there’s something I still can’t figure out:
    The point of the Zionist movement was to get us all to the Holy Land, for religious reasons.
    For political reasons we ended up in this little hole and chose to pursue a bit more of it (but not all of it- ie jordan and iraq), again- for political reasons.
    So, unless Zionism’s next goal is to occupy the entire Religious-Borders of the Holy Land, what exactly is the meaning of being a Zionist today?

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  7. ” I am surprised this outraged person didn’t identify his or herself ”
    Are you Ben Israel , I’m not .
    ” When did it become illegal to be a Leftist in Israel? ” @ http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/when-did-it-become-illegal-to-be-a-leftist-in-israel-1.335503
    might not be illegal … yet , but it aint safe to advertise that you are one .

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  9. ” For example, the shocked revelation that Hevron supposedly is a city “that once teemed with life and whose markets and houses which are now desolate”. This description is so far from reality I have to wonder if this person really visited there. ”

    Wonder no more , take a virtual tour @ http://openshuhadastreet.org/

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  11. The 4 victims of Zionism are:

    1) Palestinians
    2) Israelis
    3) Jews worldwide
    4) Rest of the world’s citizens

    The worse thing about the above crimes is that they serve absolutely no purpose at all for any group of people you can think of, not even for the poor Zionists. The only ones that benefit from Zionism are those at the top, those that gain more power and wealth from peddling it.

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  13. @Kibbutznik: Thanks so much for your link to “Crisis in the South Hebron Hills” at http://openshuhadastreet.org/?p=1195 . It is rebuttal enough to the claim of Ben Israel that the writer of this letter knew nothing about Hebron.

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  15. If you really feel this way, the only consciencous thing to do is to give up your israeli citizenship and leave. The same goes for Tahel Ilan. Exisraeli has already done the right thing. If a few million more follow his example, there will be peace

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  17. Raed, you’d think this conflict would teach even the most obtuse ultra-nationalist ethnic cleansing is never the solution

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  19. @Raed: you think that by telling me to do what Liberman is telling Palestinians to do that you’re sharing some golden insight with us?
    Save it for the people that are getting in your way, not for the people that are looking your way.

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  21. Just thinking aloud for a moment:

    We hear that the ongoing situation is a result of the fact that 2 different people claim the same piece of land (Palestine) as “their” homeland.

    Is this really the case?

    Personally I’m not so sure most of the “Jewish People” really claim that this is so. Jews were TOLD from a certain point (~’48) to get used to the fact that from now on this land “belongs” to them.
    But do most of them really FEEL it?

    If someone comes up to you in the street and tells you: This Ferrari now belongs to you. And then hands over a piece of paper saying so – after the shock, at some point, you will become aware that this car is actually yours. You will undoubtedly like having a Ferrari but will you FEEL that it is really yours?

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  23. @EI:
    if a chicken came up to you and asked u to look after its baby chicks while it crosses the street, would u:
    (a) feel like a chicken
    (b) feel like a chick
    (c) feel like crossing the street
    does this answer your question?

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  25. Ilan, no it doesn’t.
    I don’t have conversations with chickens. Do you?
    What I meant to say is that sometimes as a result of a set of circumstances you end up having something that normally you shouldn’t have got. This is something that happens to people all the time. They usually call it then just a bit of good luck. I’ll ask differently: lets say you find $10K. You go to the police and they try to find the owner of the lost money. After 2 months the police knock on your door and say they couldn’t find who exactly is the owner of the money therefore from now on its OFFICIALLY yours. You now KNOW that the money is yours but do you FEEL its yours?
    No matter how you feel about it you surely must also know that somewhere there IS someone else that you are now leagally holding his, possibly, life savings.

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  27. I personally don’t own any chickens.
    I have a friend that once raised a family of ducks in her bathtub- does that count?

    Now, Mr. EI- mind telling the world that the reason ur EX israeli is because u were offered a well paid job in the Silicone Valley and not because u don’t have conversations with chickens?

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  29. I have no choice but to conclude you want to avoid the issue and to divert it to the personal level. Sorry, game over.

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  31. This article is full of lies and propaganda. Hebron is NOT full of Jewish settlers…it does have Jewish settlers but the majority of people are not Jewish.

    When both sides understand the other side there will be peace. When both sides act humane to each other there will be peace. And when both sides realize that the other side just wants to live their life…then there will be peace.

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  33. @EI: “Jews were TOLD from a certain point (~’48) to get used to the fact that from now on this land “belongs” to them.
But do most of them really FEEL it?”

    Jews brought up inside the religion certainly felt it all the way down the line, not starting in 1948 as you claim. This is evidenced by the Jews who came to Israel over the centuries when travel involved a lot more effort than it does now and tried, with varying degrees of success/failure, to live here. And compounded by the false Messiah syndrome. Go to Safed, Tiberias (Gaza, when sense prevails and Palestinians and Israelis can connect with each other again as human beings instead of voodoo dolls) and catch up with your history. Furthermore, in the diaspora over the centuries, one of the gentler anti-Jewish sentiments, often expressed to Jews in the streets, was the wish that Jews would go “back” to Israel. The feeling of home that came from the religion was reinforced by what the outside world was telling Jews.

    Fact is, we got our independence in 1947, that’s done. It’s what we did with it after that that needs to go under the microscope and recognized for what it really is.

    Sad that all the discussions here take on the same narrow shape. BI and EI are the bookends, let’s open some of the many books that lie between them.

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  35. @susane: mind pointing out the lies and propaganda? I’d especially like if you tell us what your impressions were of all these places when you visited them.

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  37. SH,

    “Fact is, we got our independence in 1947, that’s done.”
    “It’s what we did with it after that that needs to go under the microscope”
    - Step1: ignore/obscure/deny the palstinians their rightful status…

    “discussions here take on the same narrow shape”
    also:
    “let’s open some of the many books that lie between…”
    - Step2: Start (knowingly or otherwise) the engine of the spin machine and keep it running, for as long a you can …

    “and recognized for what it really is”.
    Good….please do recognize it for what it really is…
    What is it then in plain language??
    one word clue: Theft.
    (sorry, my mistake, 2 words: LEGAL theft)

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  39. I call upon Tahel Ilan, kibbutznik, Arieh Zimmermann and others of conscience to give up their israeli citizenship to further contribute to international justice as exisraeli has done. I also hope that exisraeli uses his/her real name in order to provide more credible inspiration to the protest movement against zionism

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  41. Raed Kami I call upon you to leave your house for a fresh breath of air once in a while.
    If your plan is to start a transfer of Jews out of Israel and we are the ones you’ve decided to kick off your plan with, then it seems to me that you should either contact Liberman (since you’re just copying his Loyalty plan) or you should start measuring the levels of oxygen reaching your brain.



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