Comments on: The Wall, 10 years on: part 9 / Dividing land – water, fauna, flora http://972mag.com/the-wall-10-years-on-part-9-dividing-the-land-water-fauna-and-flora/49195/ Independent commentary and news from Israel & Palestine Thu, 20 Jun 2013 08:10:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: david http://972mag.com/the-wall-10-years-on-part-9-dividing-the-land-water-fauna-and-flora/49195/comment-page-1/#comment-67453 david Tue, 03 Jul 2012 03:28:16 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=49195#comment-67453 The barrier saves lives by making it harder for Arab terrorists to murder Jewish civilians. Israel has been far too generous in extending concessions, only to be rebuffed every time. Peace is impossible with the Arabs, whose only goal is to eliminate Israel. The so-called Palestinians in Judea, Samaria and the rest of Israel should return to where they came from (Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt,..) and stop squatting on Jewish land. The barrier saves lives by making it harder for Arab terrorists to murder Jewish civilians. Israel has been far too generous in extending concessions, only to be rebuffed every time. Peace is impossible with the Arabs, whose only goal is to eliminate Israel.

The so-called Palestinians in Judea, Samaria and the rest of Israel should return to where they came from (Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt,..) and stop squatting on Jewish land.

]]> By: Abe Bird http://972mag.com/the-wall-10-years-on-part-9-dividing-the-land-water-fauna-and-flora/49195/comment-page-1/#comment-67194 Abe Bird Sun, 01 Jul 2012 06:52:25 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=49195#comment-67194 "An event of somewhat historic proportions"... common, illusions again, Mr. Haggai Matar? You have too much leftish tilt that run you out of the proper road !!!!!!!! “An event of somewhat historic proportions”… common, illusions again, Mr. Haggai Matar? You have too much leftish tilt that run you out of the proper road !!!!!!!!

]]> By: Joel http://972mag.com/the-wall-10-years-on-part-9-dividing-the-land-water-fauna-and-flora/49195/comment-page-1/#comment-66937 Joel Fri, 29 Jun 2012 10:47:43 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=49195#comment-66937 No. The separation barrier was built to stop suicide bombers the same way that a fence is now being hurriedly built along the Israel-Egypt border in order to prevent cross-border attacks from Sinai. No. The separation barrier was built to stop suicide bombers the same way that a fence is now being hurriedly built along the Israel-Egypt border in order to prevent cross-border attacks from Sinai.

]]> By: sh http://972mag.com/the-wall-10-years-on-part-9-dividing-the-land-water-fauna-and-flora/49195/comment-page-1/#comment-66897 sh Thu, 28 Jun 2012 22:35:22 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=49195#comment-66897 Haggai, I flinch each time I see that you've added another chapter to your series on The Wall. It's beautifully written, meticulously and impartially presented and would be a pleasure to read if the content wasn't so profoundly disturbing. Oddly, this one particularly so, although there is little here that's obvious on human suffering. When I pass places like Lifta and see the messed-up but still visibly ingenious husbanding and channelling of water that made the village so lush that many of the old almond and fig trees still flourish and bear fruit and the fennel is still abundant and fragrant almost 70 years after the inhabitants who made it so were made to flee, I am appalled by our insensitivity to those unique terraced landscapes that are being gashed and mutilated under our noses. And this doesn't even begin to take account of the less easily spotted scars we only learn about thanks to people who document them as you do. . Joel, Amram, the wall was brought in to further fragment the social fabric of Palestinians and the excuse for it was provided by the second intifada. Anyone who once saw border fortifications between the communist part of Europe and the rest of it knows that walls are not the only way of discouraging "infiltrators". And now, a few decades further down the line, we have electronic devices that could easily obviate the need for even those deep, barbed pits of deterrence. Don't bother with your repetitions of the official line. Israel fooled its own citizens about its real intentions concerning the Palestinians and by now most of Israel's silent majority knows that too. Instead of peace with its environment, Israel's government clearly wants it first erased and then refashioned. There are those in Israel will neither pause nor sleep until not a single Palestinian is left between the river and the sea. Haggai, I flinch each time I see that you’ve added another chapter to your series on The Wall. It’s beautifully written, meticulously and impartially presented and would be a pleasure to read if the content wasn’t so profoundly disturbing. Oddly, this one particularly so, although there is little here that’s obvious on human suffering. When I pass places like Lifta and see the messed-up but still visibly ingenious husbanding and channelling of water that made the village so lush that many of the old almond and fig trees still flourish and bear fruit and the fennel is still abundant and fragrant almost 70 years after the inhabitants who made it so were made to flee, I am appalled by our insensitivity to those unique terraced landscapes that are being gashed and mutilated under our noses. And this doesn’t even begin to take account of the less easily spotted scars we only learn about thanks to people who document them as you do.
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Joel, Amram, the wall was brought in to further fragment the social fabric of Palestinians and the excuse for it was provided by the second intifada. Anyone who once saw border fortifications between the communist part of Europe and the rest of it knows that walls are not the only way of discouraging “infiltrators”. And now, a few decades further down the line, we have electronic devices that could easily obviate the need for even those deep, barbed pits of deterrence.
Don’t bother with your repetitions of the official line. Israel fooled its own citizens about its real intentions concerning the Palestinians and by now most of Israel’s silent majority knows that too. Instead of peace with its environment, Israel’s government clearly wants it first erased and then refashioned. There are those in Israel will neither pause nor sleep until not a single Palestinian is left between the river and the sea.

]]> By: Amram http://972mag.com/the-wall-10-years-on-part-9-dividing-the-land-water-fauna-and-flora/49195/comment-page-1/#comment-66705 Amram Tue, 26 Jun 2012 19:27:48 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=49195#comment-66705 The wall was brought in being by PLO and hamas that wrought suicide bombings in Israel. The wall was brought in being by PLO and hamas that wrought suicide bombings in Israel.

]]> By: Joel http://972mag.com/the-wall-10-years-on-part-9-dividing-the-land-water-fauna-and-flora/49195/comment-page-1/#comment-66583 Joel Mon, 25 Jun 2012 11:13:25 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=49195#comment-66583 Neither Jew nor Arab wanted the separation barrier. It was built out of war time necessity. I bet Haggai lives in Tel Aviv and can go to sleep at night without concern for his or his family's safety, unlike, an Israeli who lives on or near the Green Line. Neither Jew nor Arab wanted the separation barrier. It was built out of war time necessity.

I bet Haggai lives in Tel Aviv and can go to sleep at night without concern for his or his family’s safety, unlike, an Israeli who lives on or near the Green Line.

]]> By: Greg Pollock http://972mag.com/the-wall-10-years-on-part-9-dividing-the-land-water-fauna-and-flora/49195/comment-page-1/#comment-66542 Greg Pollock Sun, 24 Jun 2012 23:17:00 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=49195#comment-66542 Some similar ecological objections have been raised against the boarder fence between Mexico and the US, especially on the issue of disrupted migration routes (I guess that is sort of an unindented pun--human vs wildlife migration). I also believe (think I recall) that massive amounts of trash accumulate at the fence. . This is an excellent, well reasoned series. You have well shown how the wall, sold as a final solution (yes, those words, punned) to the security fears, has in fact become another tool for social expungment (if not a word, it should be). The water disruption you describe will actually be seen as a plus by some. By any hidden means. Maybe that is all, or most, of what history is. Some similar ecological objections have been raised against the boarder fence between Mexico and the US, especially on the issue of disrupted migration routes (I guess that is sort of an unindented pun–human vs wildlife migration). I also believe (think I recall) that massive amounts of trash accumulate at the fence.
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This is an excellent, well reasoned series. You have well shown how the wall, sold as a final solution (yes, those words, punned) to the security fears, has in fact become another tool for social expungment (if not a word, it should be). The water disruption you describe will actually be seen as a plus by some. By any hidden means. Maybe that is all, or most, of what history is.

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