Comments on: The two-state solution is no longer feasible: Time to decide

By: Clif Brown

Clif Brown — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 18:05:28 +0000

RichardNYC: Front line against totalitarian Islam? What front line? In the modern world, as opposed to that of WWI, there are no physical trenches. That’s why the United States has been taken to the cleaners financially by rag-tag indigenous forces that form and dissolve overnight. This was a lesson of Vietnam that was quickly forgotten. The bottomless pocket of Uncle Sam has been found to be limited. The glaring exception of money to Israel will be increasingly noted.

If Israel is any kind of front line – it is a line of militant colonists ranged against virtually impotent natives. HAMAS, just like the impotent natives of the Old West is dedicated to throwing off the oppressive interloper. Native Americans knew well of the Trail of Tears and Palestinians know well of the Nakba. The very mention of that word in the United States is proof of change.

The reason Americans have pro-Israel views is ignorance of history and it isn’t an accident that the line of Republicans giving pro-Israel statements are not known for their depth of knowledge on any subject, but for pandering to fear. That Michele Bachmann is considered a contender speaks volumes.

Times are changing rapidly. I had to rub my eyes to make sure I was really seeing the lyrics sung by the London Prom concert protesters printed for all to read in the New York Times. Rae Abileah shouting out against Netanyahu from the gallery of Congress. Voices are being heard against the Zionist party line at long last. American Jewish organizations are anguished over the discord that Israel brings to their meetings.

And a reminder regarding your comparison of settler Americans to settler Israelis – Native Americans have full citizenship and can move to and live anywhere in the US. They have the rights of every other American.

The clock is ticking on Israel as it every more stridently defends the indefensible. Liberty and justice for all – it’s blowing in the wind.

By: Emmanuel

Emmanuel — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 00:24:39 +0000

You think an evacuation of the settlements might lead to a military coup, but granting Palestinians Israeli citizenship wouldn’t lead to a coup? That makes no sense. The same people most likely to attempt a coup to prevent the establishment of Palestine, would also be likely to attempt a coup to prevent the establishment of Isratine.

By: Mitchell Cohen

Mitchell Cohen — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 18:50:07 +0000

Philos, I HONESTLY do not understand what double standard you are talking about. There are overseas high-school and college exchange programs where students of all ethnic groups spend a year in countries all over the world (including Arab countries). Israel is only one of MANY countries with overseas programs both during the school year, as well as during the summer. I also don’t understand what you mean by “American brainwashing system of their Jewish population by a foreign state.” Most American Jews, like the general population in America, are first and foremost concerned about keeping their homes, having health insurance, and figuring out how they will afford to send their kids to college, followed by social issues (abortion, gay marriages, etc.). Yes, I would fathom most American Jews believe Israel has a right to exist and wish her well and yes, some even visit (heaven forbid!!), but outside of the Modern Orthodox, I would say the American Jews electing the president on his/her policy towards Israel is in the small minority.

By: RichardNYC

RichardNYC — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 18:24:56 +0000

@ANNIE
Wishful thinking – and yeah you’re totally right, Americans are really gonna see how Israel, the front line against Hamas and totalitarian Islam “doesn’t match our values.” And that America, a country of settlers, isn’t like Israel at all. Any day now, Americans are going to start hating Israel…right…

By: annie

annie — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 17:29:37 +0000

richardnyc writes “People don’t actually care that much. Wishful thinking on your part.” i think more and more people are going to be caring very much once israel is front and center in our next american presidential election. the lobby has over stepped and bit off more than it can chew. while the gop primary candidates are clawing their way to the top by pandering to israel instead of americans people will start to notice. when both parties compete by swearing further and further loyalty to israel people are going to start looking at israel, people who never looked before and what they will see doesn’t match our values.

By: Philos

Philos — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:12:03 +0000

Mitchell Cohen, Pakistan isn’t an enemy state either (it’s officially a US Major Non-NATO Ally) but people raise flags about Pakistani-American’s doing a summer over there. The point I’m making is that there’s a double-standard and Jewish-American’s shouldn’t be surprised when their loyalty to America is questioned. I’m Jewish but I’m Israeli. So, perhaps, that’s why I don’t get this American brainwashing system of their Jewish population by a foreign state.

By: GuiltyFeat

GuiltyFeat — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 13:36:23 +0000

I say we abandon the religious Zionist settlers to the life they have chosen, outside the recognized borders of Medinat Yisrael.

I am myself a religious Zionist. I felt a religious obligation to move from the UK and establish my life in Eretz Yisrael. But in doing so, I carefully chose to meet my obligation in the politically less contentious part which falls within the sovereign boundaries of Medinat Yisrael. If other Jews wish to live in parts of Eretz Yisrael which fall outside of Medinat Yisrael, then that should be between them and their government. I believe Israel’s right of return will not be affected by Palestinian sovereignty over Palestine. Knowing our government we’ll probably give special rights to any of them that choose to “return”.

I welcome Palestinian statehood in whatever form it comes. I believe that successive Israeli governments (and therefore successive Israeli electorates) have squandered any rights they probably never had anyway to dictate that form.

I still believe wholeheartedly that a two-state solution can work, but at least one of those states has to remove its head from its own arse for it to happen. I vote that it should be us.

By: Mitchell Cohen

Mitchell Cohen — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 11:36:22 +0000

“I mean if there were Arab-American groups sending their youngsters to say Egypt to study Pan-Arabism and they went to Pan-Arab Summer Camps in which they sang Arabic national anthems they’d probably be high on the FBI terror watch list for groups trying to radicalize American citizens against their country, no? I mean what is this?!? It’s beyond my comprehension.” [End of Philos] It’s actually quite simple. If the Arab-American groups send their youngsters to Arab countries for summer camp that are considered allies of America, then who cares. There is no issue. If they send their youngsters to countries who are considered enemy states, then that is where there is an issue. The last time I checked Israel is an ally of America. So is Egypt (although it would be nice if they released Ilan Grapel back to America so he can attend his last year of Law School, but that is another story).

By: BOOZ

BOOZ — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 10:47:03 +0000

@Richard Witty :

I fully support your 1st sentence. But when you write :

“The federal state idea of very strong national nearly sovereign entities is a prospective long-term solution, but very doubtfully a short-term one.”

….not even that. Just look at the way Dutch and French speaking Belgians cannot come to terms !

By: Sam

Sam — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 03:41:07 +0000

Great analysis Yossi. One of the points which was not covered in your analysis was the cost of possible transfer of the 300,000 illegal settlers in the West Bank to Israel. Israel has already spent more than 17 billion on the settlement enterprise. They would probably have to spend that much to establish the settlers in Israel proper. There are settlers that were transferred from Gush Katif in 2005 who STILL have no permanent accomodation. So, would it even be financially viable for Israel to transfer, compensate and accomodate the West Bank settlers?