23 comments for ”Myth of Good Israel vs. Bad Israel: Where were the Left MKs?“

    
  1. I agree with this analysis.

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  3. I think if you are going to list missing MK’s you should note that some
    MK’s from Balad, Raam-Taal, and even Hadash, were also missing. Meretz was the only party to be fully present and voting against. The fact that a few postings I’ve seen list the missing Kadima and Labor MK’s and not the others is lacking, as I think we deserve to know the reliability and responsibilty of the left parties as well.

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  5. Well Noam, the same (showing up in full force not being so difficult) would apply to Hadash, Balad, and Raam-Taal (as far as the size). I am especially concerned about their absence as I do have expectations – well from Hadash I do – which I do not have anymore from Labor and never had from Kadima (well never really had from Labot either).

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  7. The fascist laws exist for the same reason the fascist parties supporting the laws exist, namely that they enjoy overwhelming support among the thoroughly Nazified society in Israel. Why would any party with real political aspirations want to commit political suicide by opposing them?

    If you want to destroy your political career in the United States, just say something against handguns or war or something in favor of teachers or education or the rights of workers to decent wages. If you want to destroy your career in Israel, just imply that Palestinians are human beings. That’s it–you’re through, and everybody knows this.

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  9. Hi Noam. I like your pieces and don’t really think we are very far apart in our perspective. I can also understand how the comparison of Israeli and Nazi behavior doesn’t sit well with many.

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  11. I think we should institute a three-times-you’re-out law for Knesset truancy. It is one of the most upsetting and insulting things to me as a citizen, that my elected representatives don’t bother to show up to some of the most important legislation votes in our history. I think it should be considered a political crime, a breach of contract with the public and a failure to administer duties for which they were hired. If an MK misses three votes in a row, he or she should be kicked out of the Parliament and have a “cooling off” period before being allowed back. Or I should get tax money back for having paid his/her salary…well, I am serious about the three-strikes part, anyway

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  13. Your points about absence of members for critical votes is right.

    However, I find this business of “racist and anti-democratic tendencies” among those whose politics differ from yours to be offensive. Today, both Begin and Meridor spoke out strongly against investigating leftist groups (they’re not human rights groups, they are political groups with political agendas).

    According to you, Begin and Meridor are not just exceptions within their own party but exceptions within Israeli society. Perhaps you need to recalibrate YOUR views? Maybe your views are so far to the left of the political spectrum that you fail to see that the center and even the center-right is not the terrible thing you claim it is?

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  15. Is there some resource on the web that lists the roll call in the Knesset? It doesn’t have to be in English, but I’d much appreciate it. Sometimes it’s good to know who voted and how when it comes to certain laws.

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  18. Maayan,

    Several points:

    - “they are not human rights groups, they are political groups”. Unfortunately, in a country where crushing human rights is a legitimate political stance, i guess standing up for human rights is also a political affiliation. I am glad you are making this association, since I would be more than interested in presenting certain political parties in Israel as having an anti-human rights positions and for them to own up to that.

    - Begin and Meridor and anyone else that opposes current ideological investigation into sources of human right NGOs funding are, unfortunately an exception in our society. What is baffling is your suggestion for people to recalibrate their views in the light of the fact that their position is considered to be a fringe one in a society that approves and indeed does trample human rights on a daily basis. It would be a sad world indeed if all it took for human rights champions to silence their protest is a public poll that shows that more than 50% of population does not agree with them. Human rights are universal and luckily do not depend on the percentage of (oppressing) population supporting them or not. Likewise, the political spectrum is something that is defined on a large number of issues, not only human rights, therefore calibrating one’s views on a topic of human rights is a truly dubious exercise.

    As for the investigation, all the NGOs are constantly being investigated and monitored by non-political, professional organizations and bodies that are responsible for this monitoring on all the NGOs, not only the human-rights related NGO. Furthermore, all of this information is readily available online, it takes just a little bit of time and, of course, will to gather it. Take for example the debunking of Im Tirzu’s claims of foreign (and hostile) funding of left-wing organization, brilliantly done at the “Friends of George” blog: http://www.hahem.co.il/friendsofgeorge/ . It is all there, it is all out in the open and parliamentarian committees are just and excuse for a witch hunt.

    No one is protesting oversight, demonization is a different story.

    But I suspect you already knew that.

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  20. First of all, I don’t care whether these groups are investigated as long as right and center groups are investigated as well. It seems to me perfectly fair to demand from all of these groups, right or left, to identify their funding sources. Transparency for NGOs is as critical as transparency for politicians because it’s important to know who is trying to manipulate what in one’s society.
    Second, I’m not sure why you oppose demonization of left wing groups. Since coming to 972 several days ago, I’ve been called a racist, a fascist and a bigot. Left wing groups often use terms along these lines to criticize Israel and Israeli society. You can’t have it where only the Left gets to call people ugly names when there’s disagreement with their viewpoint.
    Third, Begin and Meridor represent the majority of Israelis. Sorry. The point is that even doctrinaire rightists in Israel understand the fragility of democracy and will defend it against the narrow political interests even of those who are allied with them.
    Fourth, Israel does not “crush human rights.” Leave the rhetoric out of this.

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  22. Maayan, Branko just pointed you to a link that shows human rights NGOs already are transparent about their funding sources. You ignored it in order to press your very dubious political point, in which you justify the tyranny of the majority.

    Now, if a citizen thinks there are financial irregularities in an organization – any organization – then s/he can complain to the police. A legislature is not an investigative body.

    Furthermore, the Kirshenbaum Committee proposes explicitly to investigate organizations that criticize the Israeli army. It is clearly not a committee set up to investigate all NGOs based on objective criteria.

    It is difficult to engage you when you persist in ignoring inconvenient facts and in presenting a view of history that seems to be plucked from the pages of Golda Meir’s autobiography. You will find, I am sure, that if you engage intelligently, you will be taken seriously.

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  24. Lisa, there is nothing about “tyranny of the majority” in wanting all NGOs to be transparent about funding sources, regardless of the NGO’s political leanings.

    And I didn’t justify at any point what the current government wanted to to.

    As for whether I engage intelligently or not, I’m positive that your readers can judge for themselves.

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  26. ” I’m not sure why you oppose demonization of left wing groups”

    I guess here lies the cornerstone of our misunderstanding, both present and future.

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  28. Maayan, why don’t you cut the bullshit? This isn’t about “all NGOs”. This Knesset decision is about a specific list of NGOs. All of them coming human rights NGOs and all of them have perfect records of transparency.

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  30. [...] party to leave the coalition government, others appear to be leading it steadily to the right. In another post, Sheizaf points out that most Labor MKs were conspicuously absent when the Knesset recently voted [...]

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  32. Yossi, I was expressing MY view that all NGOs should be transparent. I don’t think any group should be targeted. Im Tirtzu should be just as open as Adalah and B’Tzelem and they should all be entirely and completely transparent. I also think there should be limits on foreign funding of political NGOs (yes, “human rights” oriented NGOs qualify as political) because neither Iran or Sweden should be able to influence my country. It’s not as if I establish or support NGOs in Spain to see how they treat the Basques.

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  36. ………………………………..Hey Mayyan. You really need to loosen that tefilin a bit. it’s cutting off the oxygen to your handful of remaining neurons.

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  38. …………………………………………….”A body that seeks to hide from the light of day is bound to have rot or to develop it.”

    Hmm…that’s interesting. Which body has sealed off every one of their atrocity sites from the press and blocked every independent investigation into their sickening depravities? Which body locked Mordechai Vanunu away in solitary confinement for exposing a rogue state’s weapons of mass destruction? That wouldn’t by any chance be shithole Israel would it, Mr. Harel?



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