Comments on: The Hatikvah affair: This is what a Jewish state looks like http://972mag.com/the-lesson-of-the-hatikva-affair-this-is-what-a-jewish-state-looks-like/37400/ Independent commentary and news from Israel & Palestine Tue, 18 Jun 2013 23:08:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: sh http://972mag.com/the-lesson-of-the-hatikva-affair-this-is-what-a-jewish-state-looks-like/37400/comment-page-1/#comment-47843 sh Sat, 10 Mar 2012 17:36:56 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=37400#comment-47843 @Raffaele Ladu - "there is a Yiddish version of the “Ode to Joy”, named “Ale mentshn zaynen brider”. Why not choose it over HaTiqwah?" . That would certainly meet my requirement for a text not understood by a majority, Raffaele, and I suppose one could stipulate only bass voices to be certain that no female singers sully holy ears (clause: no octave-jumping permitted); on the other hand, that doesn't solve the Lieberman issue. You see, the inherent irony in one who murders the anthem thus http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150815026075324 or if you can't access that, thus http://blogs.forward.com/the-shmooze/143604/ berating someone who, for whatever reason, preferred to discreetly abstain, is yet another feature of Israel's burlesque current political scene; one of the less harmful features at that, but that's another story. . The danger is that Yvet's disparaging remarks about Joubran may well herald yet another draft law. Which is why someone had better get in there first and draft one permitting people to desist from singing the anthem on humanitarian grounds. This would in one fell swoop add a little shine to our democratic image, allow Joubran and whoever else to remain silent, and rescue the rest of us from suffering Excruciating Auditory Aggression à la Lieberman at public ceremonies. . But wouldn't it be a) more fun than worrying about Iran and b) less destructive than killing 14 people in Gaza in 2 days, to hold a competition amongst all Israel's citizens for an original new anthem? @Raffaele Ladu – “there is a Yiddish version of the “Ode to Joy”, named “Ale mentshn zaynen brider”. Why not choose it over HaTiqwah?”
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That would certainly meet my requirement for a text not understood by a majority, Raffaele, and I suppose one could stipulate only bass voices to be certain that no female singers sully holy ears (clause: no octave-jumping permitted); on the other hand, that doesn’t solve the Lieberman issue. You see, the inherent irony in one who murders the anthem thus http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150815026075324 or if you can’t access that, thus
http://blogs.forward.com/the-shmooze/143604/
berating someone who, for whatever reason, preferred to discreetly abstain, is yet another feature of Israel’s burlesque current political scene; one of the less harmful features at that, but that’s another story.
.
The danger is that Yvet’s disparaging remarks about Joubran may well herald yet another draft law. Which is why someone had better get in there first and draft one permitting people to desist from singing the anthem on humanitarian grounds. This would in one fell swoop add a little shine to our democratic image, allow Joubran and whoever else to remain silent, and rescue the rest of us from suffering Excruciating Auditory Aggression à la Lieberman at public ceremonies.
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But wouldn’t it be a) more fun than worrying about Iran and b) less destructive than killing 14 people in Gaza in 2 days, to hold a competition amongst all Israel’s citizens for an original new anthem?

]]> By: Jazzy http://972mag.com/the-lesson-of-the-hatikva-affair-this-is-what-a-jewish-state-looks-like/37400/comment-page-1/#comment-47833 Jazzy Sat, 10 Mar 2012 16:44:15 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=37400#comment-47833 Noam W: Thanks for that. Without going into exceptions or defenses, can you tell me whether Israeli law requires that the statement be one of FACT? What I tend to see on +972 is that a reader will offer a negative OPINION (e.g. so and so is an anti-semite) and then will be accused of libel, when it my understanding that the statement must include a factual statement (e.g. so and so beats his kids). Noam W: Thanks for that. Without going into exceptions or defenses, can you tell me whether Israeli law requires that the statement be one of FACT? What I tend to see on +972 is that a reader will offer a negative OPINION (e.g. so and so is an anti-semite) and then will be accused of libel, when it my understanding that the statement must include a factual statement (e.g. so and so beats his kids).

]]> By: Piotr Berman http://972mag.com/the-lesson-of-the-hatikva-affair-this-is-what-a-jewish-state-looks-like/37400/comment-page-1/#comment-47821 Piotr Berman Sat, 10 Mar 2012 15:37:03 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=37400#comment-47821 Polish definition adds "to deprive of public regard needed to perform their [persons, institutions] function or profession." In the meantime, Phil of Mondoweiss taped an interview of Yossi, who is thus a Newsworthy Person. Sadly, as usual, comments at Mondoweiss show neither taste nor common sense: Wow, man, Gurvitz is a force. Fabulous interview, When I see good people like Gurvitz... Gurvitz has great candor, and a seemingly keen insight. this is an incredible interview with an incredible man. thank you very very much. Polish definition adds “to deprive of public regard needed to perform their [persons, institutions] function or profession.”

In the meantime, Phil of Mondoweiss taped an interview of Yossi, who is thus a Newsworthy Person. Sadly, as usual, comments at Mondoweiss show neither taste nor common sense:

Wow, man, Gurvitz is a force.

Fabulous interview,

When I see good people like Gurvitz…

Gurvitz has great candor, and a seemingly keen insight.

this is an incredible interview with an incredible man. thank you very very much.

]]> By: Noam W http://972mag.com/the-lesson-of-the-hatikva-affair-this-is-what-a-jewish-state-looks-like/37400/comment-page-1/#comment-47803 Noam W Sat, 10 Mar 2012 11:26:55 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=37400#comment-47803 Here you go Jazzy: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cts=1331378413397&ved=0CEIQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nevo.co.il%2FLaw_Word%2Flaw01%2F019_002.doc&ei=8DhbT-_WLKLf0QH61KW0Dw&usg=AFQjCNEcNQ2WMozgIadlm7Wxs8eMEK6qEg I will translate the first provision for you: Libel is a publication that may: 1. Demean a person in the eyes of other people or make him [Hebrew statutes are all in masculine form NW] a target for ridicule or contempt. Of course understanding any tort requires understanding the exceptions and defenses but I am not going to translate the entire thing. Here you go Jazzy:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cts=1331378413397&ved=0CEIQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nevo.co.il%2FLaw_Word%2Flaw01%2F019_002.doc&ei=8DhbT-_WLKLf0QH61KW0Dw&usg=AFQjCNEcNQ2WMozgIadlm7Wxs8eMEK6qEg

I will translate the first provision for you:
Libel is a publication that may:
1. Demean a person in the eyes of other people or make him [Hebrew statutes are all in masculine form NW] a target for ridicule or contempt.

Of course understanding any tort requires understanding the exceptions and defenses but I am not going to translate the entire thing.

]]> By: Jazzy http://972mag.com/the-lesson-of-the-hatikva-affair-this-is-what-a-jewish-state-looks-like/37400/comment-page-1/#comment-47776 Jazzy Fri, 09 Mar 2012 23:34:20 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=37400#comment-47776 Yossi: I get the sense that if "libel" were defined as expansively under Israeli law as it is on +972, the Israeli court system would implode. But since I am ignorant of the Israeli definition, I would welcome an educational link (translated or not) Yossi: I get the sense that if “libel” were defined as expansively under Israeli law as it is on +972, the Israeli court system would implode. But since I am ignorant of the Israeli definition, I would welcome an educational link (translated or not)

]]> By: Bill Pearlman http://972mag.com/the-lesson-of-the-hatikva-affair-this-is-what-a-jewish-state-looks-like/37400/comment-page-1/#comment-47771 Bill Pearlman Fri, 09 Mar 2012 22:22:58 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=37400#comment-47771 If Rommel breaks through at El Alamein and gets over the Suez to the gulf oil fields he gets that resource and wipes out the Jews of the Yishuv. And I defy anyone to read mondoweiss. Phil, his staff, his fans, and come away with any other conclusion that to to them that would have been the better outcome then the establishment of Israel. And I stand by that. If Rommel breaks through at El Alamein and gets over the Suez to the gulf oil fields he gets that resource and wipes out the Jews of the Yishuv. And I defy anyone to read mondoweiss. Phil, his staff, his fans, and come away with any other conclusion that to to them that would have been the better outcome then the establishment of Israel. And I stand by that.

]]> By: Yossi Gurvitz http://972mag.com/the-lesson-of-the-hatikva-affair-this-is-what-a-jewish-state-looks-like/37400/comment-page-1/#comment-47770 Yossi Gurvitz Fri, 09 Mar 2012 22:13:26 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=37400#comment-47770 And I think, Jazzy, that reporters should be granted the privilege of the assumption that they know what libel is in their own jurisdictions. And I think, Jazzy, that reporters should be granted the privilege of the assumption that they know what libel is in their own jurisdictions.

]]> By: Jazzy http://972mag.com/the-lesson-of-the-hatikva-affair-this-is-what-a-jewish-state-looks-like/37400/comment-page-1/#comment-47758 Jazzy Fri, 09 Mar 2012 19:35:59 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=37400#comment-47758 I think the contributors at +972 need to watch an informational video on the definition of "libel", because its a frequently abused term here. I think the contributors at +972 need to watch an informational video on the definition of “libel”, because its a frequently abused term here.

]]> By: aristeides http://972mag.com/the-lesson-of-the-hatikva-affair-this-is-what-a-jewish-state-looks-like/37400/comment-page-1/#comment-47754 aristeides Fri, 09 Mar 2012 19:11:28 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=37400#comment-47754 Yossi - do you likewise abhor the comments at this site? Or, if not, what difference do you see? Yossi – do you likewise abhor the comments at this site? Or, if not, what difference do you see?

]]> By: Yossi Gurvitz http://972mag.com/the-lesson-of-the-hatikva-affair-this-is-what-a-jewish-state-looks-like/37400/comment-page-1/#comment-47752 Yossi Gurvitz Fri, 09 Mar 2012 18:27:09 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=37400#comment-47752 Michael, that comment was libelous and hateful and therefore removed. I don't read Mondoweiss often enough to fashion a considered opinion. As a rule, I like what the authors write and abhor the comments. Michael, that comment was libelous and hateful and therefore removed. I don’t read Mondoweiss often enough to fashion a considered opinion. As a rule, I like what the authors write and abhor the comments.

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