Comments on: The irony in arrest of conscientious objector Noam Gur http://972mag.com/the-irony-in-arrest-of-conscientious-objector-noam-gur/44862/ Independent commentary and news from Israel & Palestine Fri, 24 May 2013 21:08:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Kibbutznik http://972mag.com/the-irony-in-arrest-of-conscientious-objector-noam-gur/44862/comment-page-1/#comment-60412 Kibbutznik Tue, 08 May 2012 10:52:19 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=44862#comment-60412 "We’re living in a country that cannot tolerate honesty." . oh sh , coming from you thats pure hypocrisy are you not the one that called Shulamit Aloni a liar ? . BTW your English cousin that shares so much with you including place of birth plus the orthodox education and english upbringing is showing his true colors ... . http://www.politicalstew.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=108447 . dont expect you to defend us sh we expect you to go along with his BS and lies its what you have always done ... “We’re living in a country that cannot tolerate honesty.”
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oh sh , coming from you thats pure hypocrisy
are you not the one that called Shulamit Aloni a liar ?
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BTW your English cousin that shares so much with you including place of birth plus the orthodox education and english upbringing is showing his true colors …
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http://www.politicalstew.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=108447
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dont expect you to defend us sh
we expect you to go along with his BS and lies
its what you have always done …

]]> By: sh http://972mag.com/the-irony-in-arrest-of-conscientious-objector-noam-gur/44862/comment-page-1/#comment-60396 sh Tue, 08 May 2012 08:36:44 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=44862#comment-60396 "In fact, the Torah says this and says those who do not want to fight should not be forced to." . It's commonsense too. Which is also why exemptions should not be restricted to the religious while people like Noam are imprisoned. “In fact, the Torah says this and says those who do not want to fight should not be forced to.”
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It’s commonsense too. Which is also why exemptions should not be restricted to the religious while people like Noam are imprisoned.

]]> By: XYZ http://972mag.com/the-irony-in-arrest-of-conscientious-objector-noam-gur/44862/comment-page-1/#comment-60392 XYZ Tue, 08 May 2012 08:25:33 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=44862#comment-60392 I, for one, do not understand forcing people into the military that don't want to be there. I asked someone why they put people like that in jail and his answer was that if they simply let anyone out who didn't want to be there, those who do go could end up feeling like "freiers" (i.e. patsys). Forcing people who don't want to be in the army would seem to bring people in who would not work in the system in any event and could end up demoralizing others. In fact, the Torah says this and says those who do not want to fight should not be forced to. I, for one, do not understand forcing people into the military that don’t want to be there. I asked someone why they put people like that in jail and his answer was that if they simply let anyone out who didn’t want to be there, those who do go could end up feeling like “freiers” (i.e. patsys). Forcing people who don’t want to be in the army would seem to bring people in who would not work in the system in any event and could end up demoralizing others. In fact, the Torah says this and says those who do not want to fight should not be forced to.

]]> By: XYZ http://972mag.com/the-irony-in-arrest-of-conscientious-objector-noam-gur/44862/comment-page-1/#comment-60391 XYZ Tue, 08 May 2012 08:22:33 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=44862#comment-60391 Annie- Sorry I didn't make myself clear, I was referring to Tzipi's odd comments. She doesn't seem to believe that people can think for themselves. In this modern age, no one is forced to adopt a religious lifestyle, and if fact, many don't. Those who do are not necessarily stupid robots responding to some sort of remote control mechanism. Annie-
Sorry I didn’t make myself clear, I was referring to Tzipi’s odd comments.
She doesn’t seem to believe that people can think for themselves. In this modern age, no one is forced to adopt a religious lifestyle, and if fact, many don’t. Those who do are not necessarily stupid robots responding to some sort of remote control mechanism.

]]> By: annie http://972mag.com/the-irony-in-arrest-of-conscientious-objector-noam-gur/44862/comment-page-1/#comment-60389 annie Tue, 08 May 2012 07:19:11 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=44862#comment-60389 should read 'imagine', not 'image'. should read ‘imagine’, not ‘image’.

]]> By: annie http://972mag.com/the-irony-in-arrest-of-conscientious-objector-noam-gur/44862/comment-page-1/#comment-60388 annie Tue, 08 May 2012 07:18:16 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=44862#comment-60388 xyz, in what way do you image yossi is speaking for your daughters? xyz, in what way do you image yossi is speaking for your daughters?

]]> By: sh http://972mag.com/the-irony-in-arrest-of-conscientious-objector-noam-gur/44862/comment-page-1/#comment-60386 sh Tue, 08 May 2012 07:15:30 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=44862#comment-60386 "there is no conscience, there are only religious edicts." - YG . "Both of the standards you point out are actually not that different: they are essentially mechanisms of control over women (but not only women). " Tsipi . Depending on what bee's in your bonnet, one person's religious edict is another person's mechanism of control over women. I s'pose that makes the culture of dishonesty culture my bee. It's the spoonful of sugar that helps those who represent us by virtue of our democratic vote go down just like Mary Poppins's medicine. Just watch us vote the same people in, in Sep.., erm.... 2013. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8VHc49ZdP4 . Until we wean ourselves off our addiction, courage to those who, like Noam, buck the trend. “there is no conscience, there are only religious edicts.” – YG
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“Both of the standards you point out are actually not that different: they are essentially mechanisms of control over women (but not only women). ” Tsipi
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Depending on what bee’s in your bonnet, one person’s religious edict is another person’s mechanism of control over women. I s’pose that makes the culture of dishonesty culture my bee. It’s the spoonful of sugar that helps those who represent us by virtue of our democratic vote go down just like Mary Poppins’s medicine. Just watch us vote the same people in, in Sep.., erm…. 2013.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8VHc49ZdP4
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Until we wean ourselves off our addiction, courage to those who, like Noam, buck the trend.

]]> By: XYZ http://972mag.com/the-irony-in-arrest-of-conscientious-objector-noam-gur/44862/comment-page-1/#comment-60372 XYZ Tue, 08 May 2012 05:00:24 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=44862#comment-60372 As a religious father of daughters, I can tell you that my daughters (some of whom are married) would say that you don't know what you are talking about and you don't speak for them (BTW-all my adult daughters are university educated including Hebrew University). As a religious father of daughters, I can tell you that my daughters (some of whom are married) would say that you don’t know what you are talking about and you don’t speak for them (BTW-all my adult daughters are university educated including Hebrew University).

]]> By: Tsipi http://972mag.com/the-irony-in-arrest-of-conscientious-objector-noam-gur/44862/comment-page-1/#comment-60339 Tsipi Mon, 07 May 2012 22:19:21 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=44862#comment-60339 Both of the standards you point out are actually not that different: they are essentially mechanisms of control over women (but not only women). On the religious side it is protecting women as possessions, which must be sheltered from the vile libertine atmosphere of the army, of coming in contact with men, and also to make sure that time is not wasted instead of finding a proper kind of male to mate with and bring more children of the proper kind into Jewish household. The other side is a policing of nationalistic ideological conformity. Meaning, you can either conform to the demographic/religious/ideological patriarchal control, or the nationalistic/ideological patriarchal control. For women, this is hardly an attractive variety of choices. Both of the standards you point out are actually not that different: they are essentially mechanisms of control over women (but not only women). On the religious side it is protecting women as possessions, which must be sheltered from the vile libertine atmosphere of the army, of coming in contact with men, and also to make sure that time is not wasted instead of finding a proper kind of male to mate with and bring more children of the proper kind into Jewish household.

The other side is a policing of nationalistic ideological conformity. Meaning, you can either conform to the demographic/religious/ideological patriarchal control, or the nationalistic/ideological patriarchal control.

For women, this is hardly an attractive variety of choices.

]]> By: sh http://972mag.com/the-irony-in-arrest-of-conscientious-objector-noam-gur/44862/comment-page-1/#comment-60335 sh Mon, 07 May 2012 22:00:51 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=44862#comment-60335 It's a bit like the people who arrive in Israel to visit the West Bank, isn't it. Tell the security people you're going to TA and you can do as you please. Tell them Ramallah and you're out on your ear. . We're living in a country that cannot tolerate honesty. It’s a bit like the people who arrive in Israel to visit the West Bank, isn’t it. Tell the security people you’re going to TA and you can do as you please. Tell them Ramallah and you’re out on your ear.
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We’re living in a country that cannot tolerate honesty.

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