22 comments for ”J14: The exclusive revolution“

    
  1. “The men and women who set out to build a Jewish state in historic Palestine made little secret of their settler-colonial designs”

    hey joey,

    wanna explain how you get so upset at “hasbara” when you post pure propaganda pieces like the one above….which of course include a multitude of quotes taken out of context and mistranslated?

    i know your bud, maxxie cant read or write hebrew, but surely you do

    and when did morris become a “revisionist” historian? before or after he was given access to more of the israeli archives, so as to refine his views of 48 and 67

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  3. A social movement encouraged, rather than complained about, will succeed at breaking the divides between cultures.

    In other cities, it is reported that genuine common cause is the theme.

    The occupation is real in every breath, but need not be spoken in every breath.

    That is a counter-productive choice on your part.

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  5. Richard-
    Did 70 years of “Internationalist” communist rule in the name of “social justice” and equality in the USSR end ethnic tensions there?

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  7. Communist revolutions did change peoples’ hearts and minds, Ben Israel.

    Its just that they took three steps forward and more steps back.

    If you’ve read my comments, you’ll note that I object to the use of force, and support persuasion.

    Sephardi, Ashkenazi, Arab Israelis, Arab Palestinians, have more in common than they have differences.

    They share the same life needs (food, shelter, water, health, safety, family, community) and most of the same aspirations (self-governance, freedom from want, cultural freedom).

    They share the same world as a whole, and the same neck of the world.

    There are two arguments at play:

    1. The breaking of cultural divides

    2. The tensions inherent in the neo-liberal vision that creates the gap between minimum necessities and ability to provide that is common cause between much of the Arab spring theme and the Israeli tent city movement

    The only differences are cultural, and then multiplied by non-acceptance of the other, then twisted further by condemnatory politically correct reactions.

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  9. Nothing particularly interesting here, just a front-loading of quotes by Zionists (which are obviously upsetting) and a thin link to the current movement accomplished by the occasional inclusion of the appendix “Socialist” to the word “Zionist”, but there is no context or argument.
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    The rest of the piece reflects, in my opinion, a weak analysis of leftist movements and movements in general. There is the continual portrayal of the “movement” as monolithic, when in fact it is, in the opinion of “radical left” activists on the ground, a contested matter. (This reflects a larger issue, that of 1) seeing movements as process, not static and 2) encouraging process if one believes in the ends (stopping occupation).) Nonetheless, Blumenthal and Dana, as they do in their tweet-fests addressed to the personified “J14″ and “the J14 leadership”, imagine some singularity to which they attribute intention. What’s more, they actually seek out intention in this singularity in the form of the Rothschild Tents – while at the same time criticizing the obvious problems with the Euro, middle-class/elite, pro-Zionist elements that make up this privileged group they valorize. I was in tents outside of TLV where poor Mizrahim were discussing how occupation is a cover for neo-liberalism (Max & Joseph’s point here) and that they won’t let their kids go into the army (that’s radical change, my friend.)
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    There is also the strange psychologization of “the radical left” as in passages such as: “Matar believe they have found the influence they always sought among mainstream Israelis” and, “If this new movement welcomed leftists, and upheld them as its vanguard, how could it not be revolutionary?”. It could not be revolutionary if it’s not challenging the state, which this isn’t. I’m almost positive the movement hasn’t “upheld the left as its vanguard”. I don’t think ANYONE on the left believes they have “found the influence they always sought”, rather we believe we have an opening to bring the issues of the occupation into the mainstream, by piercing the usual divisions and distractions through a shared struggle over economics. Furthermore, anyone who thinks what has happening to now is a “revolution” has no purchase on history – most leftists who actually have historical analysis do see the moment as having potential, to be an opening for revolution, but none are so foolish as attributed here.
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    What is most disappointing is statements such as: “there was little evidence that the July 14 movement’s rank and file had any interest in overthrowing the “system,” or that they would ever be willing to acknowledge, let alone engage, the occupation.” DUH. Since when did a social movement or burgeoning revolution begin with acceptance by “rank and file” of all the principles of equality that the most radical sought in the outcome. This gap is the ENTIRE POINT OF BEING AN ACTIVIST!!! Absent a diachronic view of movements and social change (which anyone who is an activist or student of social movements/revolutions would take), this article at best simply describes the state of affairs 2 months into this, but it fails to provide anything else.
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    I agree with Richard (someone kill me), but it’s true – “a social movement encouraged, not complained about, will succeed”. What we have here is two observers, Max and Joseph, who for some reason or another (it’s not stated what strategic goal their view/take on the movement achieves – other than they might be “right” if it fails) merely describe the present state of affairs in a negative way, rather than becoming engaged in trying to pursue a change in Israeli society.
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    The retort “Israeli society can’t change from within” is actually the unspoken assertion – I disagree and I think that the revolutions of this year prove that previous assumptions about the potential of societies to overturn their status quo have been brought into question. Minimally, there is evidence we should encourage them against bad odds if we care about the outcome, not merely report how shitty the odds look in the beginning.

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  11. Quote
    How the largest social justice movement in Israel’s history managed to ignore the Palestinians
    Unquote

    Memo to the pro-Palestinian crowd:

    This isn’t all about you and your pet causes and hobbyhorses.

    Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and a social justice movement is just about social justice. Addressing the issue of economic inequality in Israel that’s the same kind everywhere in the world and is nothing to do with the Palestinians, occupation, settlements yada yada.

    Putting bread on the table and a roof above heads comes before fighting for people who very likely want us all dead. Very simple, no? About the canard that “the settlements are a cause of Israel’s economic troubles,” most Israelis don’t buy that anymore. Even those who dont like the YESHA settlers think that issue’s there and the economy issue’s here. You try to join them, but you’re not the mainstream. Specially not when you call Israel’s creation “original sin.”

    Wake up. It isn’t all about you.

  12. 
  13. Thanks for this, Joseph.

  14. 
  15. [...] and the Separation Principle On 08.26.11, By Max The following piece was co-authored by Joseph Dana. A shorter version recently appeared at [...]

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  17. Palestinian-Israelis join the July 14 protests at great personal risk.

    Umm, in what way?

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  19. wow. this is quite lame. how come you really publish that? the writer seems pretty disconnected from the israeli society. two weeks ago the largest demonstration was in haifa: 30,000 people, half jews, and half arabs. was they all ignoring the palestinians? are the many tent camps in arab towns are ignoring themselves? are the arab speakers in all the big rallies ignored themselves? are the demands to recognize the unrecognized arab villages and to approve plans for building in arab towns (for the first time in the history) is to ignore? and does palestimians who are citizens of israel, do not suffer from the goverment’s ultra-capitalistic economical and social policy, being the poorest sector? maybe you should keep on writing about what’s going on in the west bank and gaza, because you seem to just denny everything else!

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  21. This man is an Idiot and doesn’t know his history or facts well at all. His diatribe is chocked full of ignorance!

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  23. You must begin somewhere. I think Witty and his relunctant ally Woody are right, at least in hope:
    “A social movement encouraged, rather than complained about, will succeed at breaking the divides between cultures.” (from Witty)

    But now we must see if J14 can survive the coupled hate of the Eilat attacks and Israeli response. The authors of this piece are correct that violence must be addressed. And now we will see if it can be addressed, that violence which has fueled the fear leading to occupation indefinite.

    No matter what commenators say, J14 belongs not to them. I guess we all want to place the world in our understanding, no matter if bits of it are hacked off to make a fit. I, for one, do not want to understand, but learn.

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  25. “They fear that by joining the movement their own national identity will be co-opted to advance a struggle that will betray them in the end.”

    I read it. How is this equivalent to “great personal risk”? Someone is at personal risk, of varying magnitude, when he is about to lose his job, his position, his safety, or is about to engage in activities which may end in physical injury or death. What “great personal risk” was there in participating in the J14 protests, aside from the occasional irate police cavalryman?

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  27. I think what Dana and Blumenthal are trying to grope at here is the palatable shallowness of J14. It’s this shallowness that makes me somewhat uncomfortable with the whole movement and suspicious of it even if I do participate in the protests.

    Frankly put democratic and republican culture in Israel has suffered the deleterious effects of decades of anti-democratic and militarist rhetoric; it’s questionable, to me, if J14 can become any deeper because democratic culture isn’t deeply rooted in Israel as whole. There can’t be “justice” when several million people are ruled by an Israeli military junta in the West Bank and there won’t be “social justice” when settlers receive a disproportionate amount of the welfare, development, security and other budgets from the government. Something has to give.

    Israel has fatal internal contradictions and if J14 refuses to address them then no matter what they do one of the following will happen sooner or later: a chaotic single bi-national state or a morally repugnant semi-theocratic regime of apartheid.

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  29. [...] piece was co-authored by Joseph Dana. A shorter version recently appeared at [...]

  30. 
  31. Two elephants.

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  33. YO guys, eho needs the occupation more than You ?
    What will You do without it ?
    Maybe some palestinians would like that very much, but not You, because than, you will have nothing to talk about.

    Is the hurricane in the US also because of the occupation ?
    Bet You could find a Butterfly theory for that too…

    Even liar and deceitful Tony greestein said “Yes, we should support the J14 movement, just no expect very much of it”

    You cannot judge reality just from that point of View, its stupid.

    Jews and Arabs fare much better inside J14 than everywhere else, including settlers.

    Visit Tent1948 if You don’t believe.
    The only decision of refusal, is to refuse admisson to those who deny it from others – Marzel’s little helpers, and You included in that category, at least with what You write about settlers.

    and BTW, realisticly, the J14 movement did more for the cause of ending the occupation than You ever did and probably ever will do, unless you’ll completely rewire the way You think.

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  35. Woody.

    “Good thinking 99″

    I think your below point about seeking a singular view from a novel emerging mass movement is to try a force into – prematurely – becoming a traditional hierarchical structure aping desired views.

    (The fact that we are erecting “tents” as opposed to “barricades” should allude to the fact that we are dealing with a new type of manifestation of dissent. It’s failure to satisfactorily conform to traditional critique could also mean that the critique has got something wrong.

    While the motivation is understandable, it’s almost like a an attempt to colonise a mass pyschic space.
    And a space that is in its infancy.

    Perhaps the key word lies there: infancy.

    Do you discard the infant because it does not conform to adult desires?

    Or do you encourage it?

    My bottom line is that anything that plays with the word “justice” should be encouraged.

    Once concepts like “justice” are being fought for out there, it is so much harder to compartamentalise them.

    I would not like the job of defining where so called social justice ends and so called political justice starts.

    Once again, we are in the “race between hope and trauma”.

    But we have people actually out running instead of collapsing from from pillar to etc

  36. 
  37. [...] week, Max Blumenthal and I published an article, based on extensive reporting, which described the core problems that we see in the [...]

  38. 
  39. [...] (only one of our regular bloggers is Palestinian) reflects this debate. See this recent piece by Joseph Dana and Max Blumenthal for one view of the protest, and Dimi Reider, Haggai Matar, Ami Kaufman and myself for others. And [...]



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