Comments on: The ethnic vote and the ‘white coalition’: 7 takeaways from Israel’s elections http://972mag.com/the-ethnic-vote-and-the-white-coalition-7-takeaways-from-israels-elections/64613/ Independent commentary and news from Israel & Palestine Sat, 25 May 2013 13:31:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Greg Pollock http://972mag.com/the-ethnic-vote-and-the-white-coalition-7-takeaways-from-israels-elections/64613/comment-page-1/#comment-105120 Greg Pollock Fri, 25 Jan 2013 05:55:43 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=64613#comment-105120 To butt in: 1) In a fragmented society, proclaimed ethnic identity can become a socio-political goal. One then sees extremes in ethnicity with others blending together on the outside of this. 2) Pronounced religion can subsume politics as a primary goal. This tends to happen on the religious right, but consider left Catholics during the Central American "dirty wars," or Gandhi, who was eventually assasinated by a fundamentalist Hindu. Pronounced religion will then be a strong indicator of attitudes, but so too will pronounced ethnic idenity, both leaving out many others. My favorite hypothesis remains that a growing portion of the Israeli political economy is detached from effective organization outside the elites. Pronounced religion and pronounced ethnicity, distinct, are attempts to form some form of group idenity/action. In your land, both can be powerful and durable. Torah gravitates religion to the national right. One pronounced ethnicity to the center? If I knew what your center was. End butt To butt in:

1) In a fragmented society, proclaimed ethnic identity can become a socio-political goal. One then sees extremes in ethnicity with others blending together on the outside of this.

2) Pronounced religion can subsume politics as a primary goal. This tends to happen on the religious right, but consider left Catholics during the Central American “dirty wars,” or Gandhi, who was eventually assasinated by a fundamentalist Hindu.

Pronounced religion will then be a strong indicator of attitudes, but so too will pronounced ethnic idenity, both leaving out many others. My favorite hypothesis remains that a growing portion of the Israeli political economy is detached from effective organization outside the elites. Pronounced religion and pronounced ethnicity, distinct, are attempts to form some form of group idenity/action. In your land, both can be powerful and durable. Torah gravitates religion to the national right. One pronounced ethnicity to the center? If I knew what your center was.

End butt

]]> By: rsgengland http://972mag.com/the-ethnic-vote-and-the-white-coalition-7-takeaways-from-israels-elections/64613/comment-page-1/#comment-105085 rsgengland Fri, 25 Jan 2013 00:23:22 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=64613#comment-105085 It remains the only tiny, little Jewish State in the whole world, surrounded by Muslim /Arab religious states intent on her destruction. It remains the only tiny, little Jewish State in the whole world, surrounded by Muslim /Arab religious states intent on her destruction.

]]> By: The Trespasser http://972mag.com/the-ethnic-vote-and-the-white-coalition-7-takeaways-from-israels-elections/64613/comment-page-1/#comment-104966 The Trespasser Thu, 24 Jan 2013 11:00:13 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=64613#comment-104966 As a matter of fact, #6 is 100% true. You see, Meretz does not represent politics which is accepted by anyone but delusional and poorly educated Jewish minority. As a matter of fact, #6 is 100% true.

You see, Meretz does not represent politics which is accepted by anyone but delusional and poorly educated Jewish minority.

]]> By: Tal http://972mag.com/the-ethnic-vote-and-the-white-coalition-7-takeaways-from-israels-elections/64613/comment-page-1/#comment-104962 Tal Thu, 24 Jan 2013 10:41:20 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=64613#comment-104962 Point 6: "No shared politics for Arabs and Jews", is actually not true. Meretz's number 5 is Isawi Farej, an Arab Israeli from Kfar Qassem. And in his hometown, 34.76% of residents did vote for Meretz. So, to say that Jewish politicians even on the left don't try to bridge the gap is untrue. There is much room for improvement, but now that there is an Arab Knesset Member in Meretz, there is hope that there will be progress on that front. Point 6: “No shared politics for Arabs and Jews”, is actually not true. Meretz’s number 5 is Isawi Farej, an Arab Israeli from Kfar Qassem. And in his hometown, 34.76% of residents did vote for Meretz. So, to say that Jewish politicians even on the left don’t try to bridge the gap is untrue. There is much room for improvement, but now that there is an Arab Knesset Member in Meretz, there is hope that there will be progress on that front.

]]> By: The Trespasser http://972mag.com/the-ethnic-vote-and-the-white-coalition-7-takeaways-from-israels-elections/64613/comment-page-1/#comment-104961 The Trespasser Thu, 24 Jan 2013 10:36:48 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=64613#comment-104961 >Maybe not 2050, could be a lot sooner when the economy goes farther south and the more cutbacks in social services coming because of the world economic crisis And what exactly Daam would be able to do about it? Create jobs? Give money to the poor? Nonsense. >possible US cuts Which would be only beneficiary to Israeli economy >and if the 4 million Palestinians No, there is no less than 40 million Palestinians in WB. >who could not vote because being annexed and kept stateless. They are stateless by their own will expressed by their leaders. >With all the Da'am Workers Party was up against by big money and nationalism from all sides. Ahahahah Useless commies will remain useless commies disregarding their nationality or ethnicity. >Maybe not 2050, could be a lot sooner when the economy goes farther south and the more cutbacks in social services coming because of the world economic crisis

And what exactly Daam would be able to do about it? Create jobs? Give money to the poor? Nonsense.

>possible US cuts

Which would be only beneficiary to Israeli economy

>and if the 4 million Palestinians

No, there is no less than 40 million Palestinians in WB.

>who could not vote because being annexed and kept stateless.

They are stateless by their own will expressed by their leaders.

>With all the Da’am Workers Party was up against by big money and nationalism from all sides.

Ahahahah
Useless commies will remain useless commies disregarding their nationality or ethnicity.

]]> By: Noam Sheizaf http://972mag.com/the-ethnic-vote-and-the-white-coalition-7-takeaways-from-israels-elections/64613/comment-page-1/#comment-104957 Noam Sheizaf Thu, 24 Jan 2013 10:16:26 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=64613#comment-104957 I didn't say the ethnicity is the same as class. this is clearly untrue. I said that it is the interaction of ethnicity and class that produces voting patterns - especially reflected in this fragmented system. I didn’t say the ethnicity is the same as class. this is clearly untrue. I said that it is the interaction of ethnicity and class that produces voting patterns – especially reflected in this fragmented system.

]]> By: rico http://972mag.com/the-ethnic-vote-and-the-white-coalition-7-takeaways-from-israels-elections/64613/comment-page-1/#comment-104951 rico Thu, 24 Jan 2013 09:44:22 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=64613#comment-104951 Hi Noam, thanks for your text! Is it possible to count the ballots separatly for Israelis left and right of the green line or do you have a link with this data? Hi Noam,
thanks for your text! Is it possible to count the ballots separatly for Israelis left and right of the green line or do you have a link with this data?

]]> By: Dahlia Scheindlin http://972mag.com/the-ethnic-vote-and-the-white-coalition-7-takeaways-from-israels-elections/64613/comment-page-1/#comment-104949 Dahlia Scheindlin Thu, 24 Jan 2013 09:35:14 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=64613#comment-104949 Noam, it won't do just to write off the most consisting finding in ISraeli polling as "academic." There are all sorts of polls, they all test ethnicity and religion and one is simply more dominant than the other. It's fine to decide that's wrong, but you're not showing any evidence. It is not simply a "detail". And again - even if you could prove it, leaving out religion entirely is a severe disservice to those people - an imposition of your personal understanding of religion on them. It ignores the many shades of religious interpretation leading to different political attitudes. Finally, the map never mentions the word ethnicity (which you assume correlated 1:1 with class), and it is no surprise that some polis win on their home turf - like everywhere in the world. Perhaps more surprising that Shelley won in Kerem Ha'teimanim. In short, I believe you should qualify the entire point about ethnicity by saying that it's 100% your opinion; not an objective observation. Noam, it won’t do just to write off the most consisting finding in ISraeli polling as “academic.” There are all sorts of polls, they all test ethnicity and religion and one is simply more dominant than the other. It’s fine to decide that’s wrong, but you’re not showing any evidence. It is not simply a “detail”. And again – even if you could prove it, leaving out religion entirely is a severe disservice to those people – an imposition of your personal understanding of religion on them. It ignores the many shades of religious interpretation leading to different political attitudes. Finally, the map never mentions the word ethnicity (which you assume correlated 1:1 with class), and it is no surprise that some polis win on their home turf – like everywhere in the world. Perhaps more surprising that Shelley won in Kerem Ha’teimanim. In short, I believe you should qualify the entire point about ethnicity by saying that it’s 100% your opinion; not an objective observation.

]]> By: Noam Sheizaf http://972mag.com/the-ethnic-vote-and-the-white-coalition-7-takeaways-from-israels-elections/64613/comment-page-1/#comment-104943 Noam Sheizaf Thu, 24 Jan 2013 09:04:59 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=64613#comment-104943 I think that you are missing the broad picture in the details. yes, much of the population has blended, but on a cultural level the ethnic gap is not only present, but dominant - it's enough to watch an Israeli comedy show or any reality show to see that all the tension is around the ethnic issue. Also, note that I said it is a correlation of ethnicity and economy that affected the vote. It's enough to look at the map of the votes to see this: http://news.walla.co.il/elections/?w=/2780/2609910 As for religion, the academia's favorite factor, I believe it to be a dependent variable and not an independent, hence the absolute correlation with politics. Religion cannot explain political behavior because it is political behavior. I think that you are missing the broad picture in the details. yes, much of the population has blended, but on a cultural level the ethnic gap is not only present, but dominant – it’s enough to watch an Israeli comedy show or any reality show to see that all the tension is around the ethnic issue. Also, note that I said it is a correlation of ethnicity and economy that affected the vote. It’s enough to look at the map of the votes to see this:
http://news.walla.co.il/elections/?w=/2780/2609910

As for religion, the academia’s favorite factor, I believe it to be a dependent variable and not an independent, hence the absolute correlation with politics. Religion cannot explain political behavior because it is political behavior.

]]> By: Dahlia Scheindlin http://972mag.com/the-ethnic-vote-and-the-white-coalition-7-takeaways-from-israels-elections/64613/comment-page-1/#comment-104941 Dahlia Scheindlin Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:30:03 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=64613#comment-104941 Noam, I think your point about the ethnic vote must be highly qualified and leaves out critical feastures about the Israeli electorate. 1. It is based entirely on personal impressions, since we cannot know how Ashkenazim and Mizrahim actually voted. 2. This makes it sound like everyone in Israel identifies definitively as one or the other, which is simply wrong. Probably up to 1/3 of the J pop is mixed at this point, and when we ask people in surveys, many simply don't have a good answer, or say "both." It is inaccurate and misleading to lump them together according to your impression of Ash/Miz. 3. You cannot possibly leave out the voters' level of religious observance, and the subgroups/different shades of political attitudes that reflect breakdowns within Haredi, Nat/Relig, Masorti, secular. Even if you think ethnicity is more dominant, by leaving out religion you ignore the single most consistent factor that is predictive and correlated w left/right attitudes (more than ethnicity) in decades of survey research. All this is not to deny a role for ethnicity but to call it the "most ethnic elections" doesn't say much without data or a basis for comparison. What do you call 1977, for example? Noam, I think your point about the ethnic vote must be highly qualified and leaves out critical feastures about the Israeli electorate. 1. It is based entirely on personal impressions, since we cannot know how Ashkenazim and Mizrahim actually voted. 2. This makes it sound like everyone in Israel identifies definitively as one or the other, which is simply wrong. Probably up to 1/3 of the J pop is mixed at this point, and when we ask people in surveys, many simply don’t have a good answer, or say “both.” It is inaccurate and misleading to lump them together according to your impression of Ash/Miz. 3. You cannot possibly leave out the voters’ level of religious observance, and the subgroups/different shades of political attitudes that reflect breakdowns within Haredi, Nat/Relig, Masorti, secular. Even if you think ethnicity is more dominant, by leaving out religion you ignore the single most consistent factor that is predictive and correlated w left/right attitudes (more than ethnicity) in decades of survey research. All this is not to deny a role for ethnicity but to call it the “most ethnic elections” doesn’t say much without data or a basis for comparison. What do you call 1977, for example?

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