25 comments for ”Techno music scene dives into the BDS debate“

    
  1. The BDS people are not cohesive and follow different aimes. From stopping the occupation to the demographic destruction of Israel. In a way it is pointless discussing these topics because there is no cohesive line in the movement and DJ’s are rarely a group of people to ask. Since most really just play for the music and “love”.
    When you start spinning in a room, be it in Chenai, be it in Bangkok or Tel Aviv it really does not matter. People dance, unless you wanna politicize taking a shit as well, you are desperately trying to publicly shame others, which is what the BDS does. It uses public shaming, as has been seen on 972 when posters post links to people they believe need to be outed for behavior that has been deemed not good enough by the far left.
    Another thing the BDS is doing is pushing DJ’s “underground” meaning that I know and know of many European creatives who looooove to visit Israel, they just do this on their own time. In fact among those who know, Tel is one of the coolest places to go. Precisely because the Euro trash mainstream do gooders stay away. Looking at the Tel line up each weekend , the BDS thugs seem to have no effect on DJ’s, especially from Europe, since the scene itself is not interested in getting pulled into far left politics. The-moral-high-ground violin solo has little traction with true artists since they can tell when they are appreciated for the right reasons, namely good art.

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  3. BTW, have the usual suspects at 972 and across the world written to Robert Zimmerman and tried to morally blackmail him in order to stop his upcoming Israel gig?
    I am sure Coldplay have been written to. I look forward to their decision regarding performing or not.

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  5. palestinians and arabs can’t run a country or solve their own problems. so what do they do?

    promote silly boycotts against the only progressive country in the middle east. i wish they would put as much energy into hating israel as they would into improving their own lives.

    god knows the palestinians receive a disproportionate amount of attention compared to other “suffering” people including victims of european and US policy.

    but alas europeans won’t boycott themselves.

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  7. as far as it goes to BDS and some international artists performance cancellation, i want you all to read this letter written by Kobi Oz to Roger Waters:
    http://makom.haaretz.com/blog.asp?rId=255

    it might give another point of view

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  9. I do not think Palestinians get more reporting than the Israelis. I know for a fact a play about Rachel Corrie was taken off the stage in New York because the Israeli lobby didn’t like the content. It was based on her diaries and texts to her parents. If you don’t know she was an American peace activist who was deliberately run over by an Israeli bull dozer..probably on the way to bull dose some Palestinian houses. It worked in South Africa..when countries commit murder they have to be accountable. A few of the Israeli government people can’t even travel because they would be arrested. What do you mean Palestinians can’t run a country well they can in Egypt now the U.S installed dictator has been removed and the Palestinians were doing OK until they were forcibly removed from their homeland in 1948…

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  11. BDS is a non violent and legitimate form of resistance. Israel itself has chosen to use a boycott (against Hamas). The BDS call is very clear and cohesive. It calls for only 3 things: end to the occupation, equal rights for all citizens of Israel and implementation of the right of return of Palestinian refugees. Very reasonable demands, in accordance with international law. Besides Palestinians and foreigners there are also Israelis that call for a boycott, cause they see that nothing else has made Israel change its policies. And they want Israel to comply with international law so that it wont become an outcast State. It’s all very simple: if Israel decides to behave as a real democratic State and lives up to international law, then there wont be any need for BDS.

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  13. DAVID – Demographic destruction of Israel- is that too many of the ‘wrong sort of people’? Racist rubbish if you ask me.

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  15. Demographic destruction is 5 million arriving in a place which they have never seen before. That is destruction and that is BDS, see here
    http://vimeo.com/16874462 .
    DJ David Wangs piece sums it all up. “Who ya gonna boycott next?”
    Love his swipe at the Europeans who “boycott” the USA. I never even heard of such a phenomenon. But I guess it just feels great when you are an “artist” and have a stance against something.
    I recall sitting in a cafe in Berlin around 2003 and telling a group of people I had spent three months in the USA ( W, Iraq ), they looked at me as if I had raped a ten year old. It was not cool to visit the USA then.

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  17. David, writing such as: “Demographic destruction is 5 million arriving in a place which they have never seen before” is such a stupid thing.
    do your homework please!
    this area was full of territory wars for almost 6000 years now, and the Jews was always there, just near the Arab people. I’m ready to accept different political point of view it well based, but not a mistaken self opinion based on nonsenses.

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  19. Irrespective of your standpoint on the whole Israel/Palestine issue, to say that music, shopping, holidays, whatever, should be non-political is brainless. Which is likely why Deep Purple were the latest to trot that out.

    Say you don’t care or you don’t agree, so you’re playing/spending/visiting anyhow. All well and good, then you can have the debate about the actual subject and what to do – if anything – about it. Otherwise DJs, tourists, whatever are just saying “I’m not involved because I don’t want to be, regardless of my actions.” If you go play a set to Mugabe, whether you have any opinions about Zanu PF or not, you’re still making a statement about the regime: implicit support at least.

    If Coldplay do actually turn up in Tel Aviv, could you put them in administrative detention please? Be aware they’ll likely want to write an ‘emotional’ song or twenty about it so bear that in mind when reviewing the six months. As for Deep Purple, does anyone actually care?

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  21. Romigi , you just went from 750.000 to 5 million in a heart beat. You have the Palestinian/BDS thing down to a heart beat. Since when is refugee hereditary ? Please explain.

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  23. The political conflict doesn’t exist in a vacuum and we need to recognise that our actions can validate the Israeli state and it’s violent actions or it can dissaprove and show that it will not be tolerated.

    The cultural boycott aims to do what Edward Said said, “To use the power of culture against the culture of power”.

    Today a song entitled Freedom for Palestine was launched, it includes globally renowned artists inclusive of Jamie Catto (One Giant Leap) Andy Treacy (Moby, Groove Armada, Faithless) and is the brain child of Dave Randall (Faithless / Slovo). Check it out http://www.freedomoneworld.com

    It’s not a just a song. It’s a statement.

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  25. DENNIS
    were ” The BDS call (is) very clear and cohesive ” we would not be having this discussion ( dj Daniel Wang ) .
    The BDS is a catch basin of HR lovers, dolphin lovers, Pals, Marxists, feminists, gays, anti-Zionists and one state solution henchmen and Western Champagne Socialists and more. To say that the BDS is clear is frankly a lie. Every time I see a speech/article on BDS by the BDS people it is a little different. And how the return of 5 million non refugees to Israel is “justice” and serves a positive long term solution nobody has explained to me. Except if you are an avid mondoscheiss and EI reader & believer.
    Boycott, where ever is a crass hard line stance by a vocal minority. But if feeds into that Western feel-good thing about having done something!! Even it is standing in front of a supermarket in Philly or Glasgow begging people not to buy avocados .
    In a way the far left has swung around and joined the Arab line of action for decades, boycotting Israel. That is all the Arabs have had to say to Israel, “boycott” and funding violence across the region in that vein. Those same muppets that they payed to kill across Europe and the region are now coming back to haunt them.

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  27. David, I’m confused. I’m not gay, hate dolphins, love Zion – but only in bad reggae, have no pals, but do love Human Resources. Where do I stand on BDS?

    You might not agree with BDS, maybe you’ve confused it with a slightly shorter acronym, but conceptually it’s way easier to grasp – yes that’s more clear – than Zionism say. So exert yourself and maybe take on the argument rather than the proponents.

    PS. ‘All the Arabs had to say…’ Does that include the Mizrahim or am I just taking a wrong left turn somewhere.

    PPS. Mondoscheiss. Very, very clever.

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  29. CARL
    please take an hour to view the vimeo video I posted upstairs. Here you have an articulate member of the Palestinian diaspora explaining clearly what BDS is to her and to those who have joined her in BDS across the Pacific Northwest. She clearly states that the return of 5 million is one of her aims.
    If you further went on and read what prominent Western Palestinian organizers have to say and write you will have to change your mind. Be it mondoscheiss or EI or any other hard core anti Israel cell across the West, you will find a clear line of anti-Zionism and a RoR, which to me means the destruction of an Israel most Israeli’s would not wish to see.
    The co-founder of EI wrote a book on the one sate solution. What more proof do you need? Like the US right, this BDS far left has adjusted its vocabulary to deceive.

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  31. That many BDS supporters agree with the right of return is not a surprise to me – I won’t spend an hour watching a video to tell me that, nor one telling me that many Jews claim a right of return: both of these things not being news to readers of this site. Glad you’re getting back to the issues, anyhow.

    If you don’t agree with BDS, please argue your case. Unpleasant pejoratives about the sexuality, etc. of people who do support it, and predictable ad hominem attacks however just comment on yourself, not your intended targets.

    For the record, I largely agree with the BDS movement. It’s a blunt, and occasionally unfair tool which can alienate those Israelis you agree with (we can all slate our home towns but don’t say a word about where I live), but as an interested outsider I don’t see a better way currently, nor do I want to spend my cash on settlement grown salad – lovely though it doubtless is.

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  33. as we are talking: http://www.freedomoneworld.com/

    some of my favorite artists included in that project. still not accepting this kind of resistance.

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  35. watching right now the BDS vimeo video… have to say that it’s been too long since i saw so tendentious material describing false reality. The spoke woman is going to extremely dangerous and at the same time ridiculous point of view, in which the bottom line is simple and shown above all: the return right.

    as i mentioned before, i’m ready to accept different point of view or even better – a solution, but what is shown here is by any means one side only interest without any consideration about the status that exist today.

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  37. Carl
    notice the the way you just do away with some crass, very valid points against BDS. You have demonstrated how weak the whole movement is and that it is a fringe project. Often have a read ” Oh, I know its a sledge hammer argument! But that’s all I can do right now.” Not very nuanced in a conflict that in its complication, seeks its equal.
    When I allude to particular sexual groups, I do so pointing out that there sometimes seems to be a blending of the struggle for sexual rights and that of the Pal cause. Judith Butler being only one example. It is a far left characteristic that on the furthest meta levels we will find some sort of convergence between my minority within a minority and that of the struggle of the Palestinians or mink whales, or Washington State cross dressers who are mildly allergic to bio-dynamic avocados from Central California.
    I have many gay friends and have no issues with transgender or cross dressers and I think dolphins are very cute . But it is kidnapping and instrumentalization of ones own struggle to use this against Israel.

    Especially since none of the BDS scene gives a flying avocado about HR ( human rights ) in the surrounding countries. For decades people have been tortured and murdered, sometimes in the thousands by the usual suspects. And NOW you come to me and wish to talk about HR in Israel?
    Where were you and your passionate mind when Assad killed 20.000?
    This is not about HR. This to me smells like something else.
    And that is precisely where Daniel Wang cuts in..but you probably did not bother to read his take either. Because you know it all already.

    Do a little research on the BDS movement and you will notice that many of the leading theorists are far left (Marxist?) academics. Wether political/sexual fringe groups are best for navigating a very complicated conflict and giving answers in the same I doubt. Just as the minority wishes not to be governed by the majority, so I’d rather meet in a broader, better informed debate and not have Hamas sympathizers advise on my families safety. Keeping in mind that the vast majority of the BDS scene most likely have never been to Israel.

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  39. - What is a “crass, very valid point”?

    - “I have many gay friends” Hey, some of my best friends are black too. Liberal, no?

    - “I think dolphins are very cute . But it is kidnapping and instrumentalization of ones own struggle to use this against Israel.” If someone can explain this to me I will don a yarmulke and move to Elon Moreh. If someone can find a video of it actually happening I will marry them.

    “Where were you and your passionate mind when Assad killed 20.000?” Me and my passionate mind was probably thinking about sweets or toys in ’82. I admit though, when I read a book, it’s not because I find it interesting and the issues engage me, it’s because I’m just incredibly bigoted about all other books. Even the ones I’ve never heard of. Unheard of books and dolphins. Hate them all.

    Apologies Noam, I’ve been sucked in: the issue not the person Carl. This is what happens if you post instead of doing what you’re supposed to be doing.

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  41. Why would a human-rights activist buy Chinese products, or Saudi oil or invest in Russia?

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  43. for the record – the palestinian authority does not support boycotts of israel (economically that is) and they are illegal according to US law.

    now, if these same “rights” groups boycotted arab nations then maybe they would have some credibility.

    until they accept human rights are universal and israel isn’t some nation that should be held to an incredibly high standard while its enemies are held to NO standards the BDS movement will remain irrelevant no matter how loud they scream.

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  45. This comment has been deleted for use of foul language

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  47. Abban, as long as Israel declares itself a Jewish state, than it has an obligation to conduct itself within the framework of Jewish values, which may be a higher standard than other countries adhere to. If this is too onerous for you, than I think you should join up with those advocating a democratic secular Israel.

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  49. Mordechai ben Yosef, will you be so kind and let us know what are the Jewish values you’re referring to?
    Here’s an alternative view (original idea isn’t mine): A Jewish state is one in which Jewish thieves are the norm.



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