Comments on: The strange relationship between Silvio Berlusconi and Italian Jews

By: Silvana Da Ros

Silvana Da Ros — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 13:04:55 +0000

Indeed and at the chanting of ‘Faccetta nera’. For more racism.

By: Silvana Da Ros

Silvana Da Ros — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 12:25:43 +0000

From the article : ‘Another explanation is that the Right is traditionally more friendly to Israel than the Left.’
The above is incorrect. It maybe true nowadays and yet recently Israel was isolated by the whole world in the vote for the Palestinian State.
Historically the italian left protected the jewish population and the jews supported the left for that reason, but only for a while it seems.
Any further comments on the behavior of the majority of jewish people and their political choice, as stated from this article, would risk to trigger their accusation of antisemitism, so frequently applied today to any criticism of the jews and of the state of Israel. Hence no freedom of comments.

By: Leen

Leen — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 09:19:55 +0000

You should read my entire post before pulling up a quote out of context.
As I’ve said before, Mussolini has flip-flopped on the issue of Jews and race, he has publically and privately mocked the idea of racial purity and said the jews are part of italian society, yet based on a number of factors inclusing personal factors such as his advancement of syphilis (which as you know causes brain damage) he has changed his tune on Jews. He has said though that he regrets the racial law enactment.

That is not comparable to slave laws because Mussolini did not enact the racial laws until 1938 (he ruled Italy for a good amount of time before that and his conception of Fascism was in 1922, so you do the math). Again it seems his period of being publically anatagonistic towards the jews extended for 5 years. That to me is not comparable to decades of slavery and racial attitudes.

Mussolini is not as cut and dry as people make him out to be. He was an opportunist really than someone who is ideologically driven. It was known that Mussolini despised the Catholic church and catholics in general yet he had no problem using the church to his advantage.

And by the way, I am not a supporter of Israel. Just because I am willing to bring up a historical debate about Mussolini does not make me an Israel supporter. You can look it up yourself, Mussolini’s relationship with Jews.

If anything, I think Stalin was more of an anti-semite than Mussolini as there were records of him being antagonist towards the Jews in his private life, despite the fact that he has stated he was against antisemitism of all sorts.

Anyway, it doesnt matter because Mussolini still was a dictator.

By: ToivoS

ToivoS — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 05:45:34 +0000

Mussolini personally had nothing against Jews, many of his mistresses were Jews

Oh whoop de whoop. Do you know how many slave owners had black mistresses? Today I saw the obituary of Strom Thurmond’s daughter, born of his black maid. Is this some kind of defense for some of worse racism that the US experienced? Poor Israel, they are reduced to this to defend their supporters today.

By: Piotr Berman

Piotr Berman — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 20:03:49 +0000

Mussolini loved some Jews (“some of my best mistresses were Jewish”??) and until 1938 had cordial relationship with Zionist Revisionists who had Betar Naval Academy in Civitavecchia. Then the alliance with Nazis changed it for the worse.

So the earlier, kinder Mussolini, who murdered relatively few political opponents and waged relatively small wars was a good friend of the Zionist movement.

By: Leen

Leen — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 18:39:39 +0000

At the end of the day, Mussolini was a dictator. He wasn’t a very good one because his flopped on many issues, allowed other people to define fascism, his own conception, and his close relationship with Nazi germany doomed him. His obsession with retrieving Austrian controlled territory also took a life of its own at some point.

Please don’t get confused with what I’ve said before, I never said Mussolini was a great guy as I think being a dictator makes you a bad leader morally. Also I am wary of any state-controlled ideologies.

But again the flip flop issue is what I’ve highlighted. Mussolini has also retracted and said that he regrets the inactment of the racial laws and has said that Jews are part of Italian society and should be left undisturbed, and has implied he regrets the Racial Laws. He even openly mocked the ‘Aryan’ concept saying that race is but an idea. But then you have some other comments he made about race and the Jews. It is like Mussolini, he often enlisted the support fo the Catholic church despite the fact he was an atheist.

When I was referring to the Jewish member of the Fascist party, I was referring to people such as Ettore Ovazza who were fascists before the March to Rome. Although yes naturally people supported fascism becuase its idea that the state controlled the nation.

I do find Mussolini fascinating, I think he was a much more complex character and his policies stemmed from a wide range of factors, insecurities, and opportunism. Nevertheless, if I was going to rank him on my list of dictators of the 20th century, he would definitely be on my soft list (compared to characters like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc). For me I do find it unfortunate that this man is still hailed in Italian society, just like I find it unfortunate that Stalinism is still alive in Russia and Maoism is nowhere near dead in China. let’s just thank the lord that Hitler is not hailed as a hero in Germany.

By: Marco Schneebalg

Marco Schneebalg — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 18:05:14 +0000

Just one thing:
Berlusconi was not invited to the ceremony. He invited himself. Also, he did not speak at the ceremony, he slept; he only spoke to a journalist outside the ceremony.

By: Roberto K

Roberto K — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 17:34:25 +0000

So the Libyan, Ethiopian and other dead in the Italian conquest of North Africa, both before and during Mussolini’s rule are irrelevant to the question of who Mussolini killed?
(for example http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/mar/25/libya-remembers-bombs-not-first)

Though of course in North Africa Mussolini was not doing anything different form what France, Britain and the U.S. were doing in their respective colonies or would-be colonies.

By: Camilla A.

Camilla A. — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 16:34:37 +0000

Leen, Mussolini’s relation with Jews is indeed different and more complex than Hitler’s, but be careful not to lessen the role he played in the Holocaust.
It is true he had Jewish mistress, (Angelica Balabanoff and Margherita Sarfatti), but that doesn’t necessary mean he had “personally nothing against Jews”: his daughter Edda quoted him saying “Jews are my worst enemy” well before Racial Laws were enacted (and a similar view emerges from a biography of his last mistress, Clara Petacci; but as I haven’t read it myself I can’t elaborate further).
It his true that fascism, unlike nazism, is not antisemite “per se”, but still it is a very authoritarian and nationalistic doctrine (as you rightly said), and modern fascists (at least, the ones who declare themselves “fascists”) in Italy ARE antisemite with almost no exception.
It is also true that before Racial Laws were enacted many Jews, just like their Catholic countrymen, supported Mussolini and were not only members (something you were “forced” to be if you wanted to get a decent job) but even relevant figures of the Fascist Party (such as Aldo Finzi). But that didn’t help them much during WWII (Finzi himself died in the Fosse Ardeatine massacre).
And finally, it is true that no Italian Jew was deported before 1943 and the rise of the Republic of Salo (which might suggest Mussolini wasn’t as keen as Hitler to exterminate the Jews). But when the deportations started, Italian Fascists did actively help the Nazis. Just to make a small exaple, under Italian racial laws, the issues of a mixed couple were not to be considered Jews; well, there have been cases when the Fascist Militia broke the rules they themselves had issued and deported those families.
So, after all, I am aware of Mussolini’s position, and I know it was different from Hitler’s. But I don’t think that difference matters for all my countrymen that were stripped of their citizenship, jobs and civil rights, and finally deported and murdered just because they were Jews. It shouldn’t matter at all.

By: Camilla a.

Camilla a. — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 15:59:18 +0000

You know, Anna, the fact that someone belonging to a minority group may actually vote the italian right (Berlusclowni + the not-so-former Fascists + Lega Nord) has always puzzled me. Is not that I demand higher standards from minorities – actually I think that NO decent and educated Italian should vote for the above mentioned parties; it’s just that, I mean, they should KNOW just how bad those guys are… Just how populists and ignorant and sometimes racists. But if an Italian Jew can vote Berlusconi for the reasons you listed; if a gay person may do the same after he stated that “it’s better to flirt with young, attractive girls than being gay”, and so on, well, I give up and conclude that human nature is pretty twisted.

There is just one thing I would like to add to your otherwise excellent article. For a long time I was disturbed by the idea that some Italian Jews might actually vote Berlusconi for Israel’s sake (just to make myself clear: I am also disturbed, and very much so, by the fact that many Catholic Italians do vote Berlusconi for Vatican’s sake. I just focus on Jews here because that’s the topic). I used to wonder why, and once or twice I was even trapped in absurd debates about dual loyalty and so on. At the end of the day I realized that after all what drives a Jew to vote Berlusconi is the same thing that drives (almost) every other Italian to do the same: egoism and lack of foresight. Berlusconi’s supporters vote him because they think he will make their interest: by cutting taxes, by giving us back IMU, by bringing Balotelli to A.C. Milan or by defending Israel even when it is indefensible. And they are so short-sighted they don’t realize that – to roughly translate what we say in Italian – they are beating the hoe on their own feet.