12 comments for ”The occupation: it’s about controlling land and space“

    
  1. Sorry to be a pendent (I liked your article very much) but just wanted to point out that myriad checkpoints will suffice the ‘of’ is redundant.

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  3. It is not only Halamish is “bathing in light” in comparison with Nabi Saleh. It is, actually, Israel is bathing in light in sharp contrast with Syria, Egypt, Jordan and all the Arab world. Is that just because Israeli soldiers destroyed all the road lights in the Arab states?

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  5. ……………………………………….The Arab world has made contributions to science and mathematics, poetry and literature that the vile Israelis could never dream of in 10,000 years. Israeli society has no value and they know that. Their raison d’être is violence, stupidity, and tribalism, fortified with billions of dollars stolen from the American people.

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  7. @blightuponthisforum, you are conflating Arab and Muslim contributions to these areas, and negating Jewish and Israeli contributions is pure spite. Many Islamic contributions come from non-Arab areas. The Moorish Era in Spain marked the Golden Era of “Arabesque” art and science and also happened to be the one of the high points of Jewish contributions in these areas. Arab and Jewish contributions were intimately intertwined, because many of the people involved were in fact both Arab *and* Jewish!

    There is no point discussing Israeli contributions because clearly you are not willing to recognize anything. I don’t know if I would call that anti-semitism, but you clearly have issues.

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  9. Great article. Just got back from trip to West Bank and Israel and fully agree with your description. Heartbreaking. Weird comments, though. Keep up the good writing.

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  11. ……………………………………….Zvi …point taken and I should have made it clear I was referring to the Islamic achievements, not merely Arab. George Sarton, the great historian of science devotes the opening of his magisterial history to Islamic science, pointing to its central place. But we also shouldn’t conflate Jewish achievements–which by any measure are spectacular–with Israeli achievements, which are essentially non-existent. I quote again one of our fine Jewish over-achievers, whose opinion of the Israelis I can wholly relate to: “But then to the entire world they are oblivious. For the entire world they have one word: goy! ‘I live here and I speak Hebrew and all I know and see are other Jews like me and isn’t that wonderful!’ Oh, what an impoverished Jew this arrogant Israeli is! Yes, they are the authentic ones, the Yehoshuas and the Ozes, and tell me, I ask them, what are Saul Alinsky and David Riesman and Meyer Schapiro and Leonard Bernstein and Bella Abzug and Paul Goodman and Allen Ginsberg, and on and on and on and on? Who do they think they are, these provincial nobodies! Jailers! This is their great Jewish achievement—to make Jews into jailers and jet-bomber pilots!” ………..Philip Roth

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  13. ……………………………..in short, it is not anti-Semitism, but on the contrary, Jewish pride, that causes so many of us to say we will not allow the Israelis to drag the good name of the Jews—kind-hearted, intelligent and long-suffering people–into the sewer. It is not only compassion for the wretchedly abused Palestinians that ought to motivate decent Jews to stand against Israel, but actually Jewish self-interest and Jewish self-preservation. That’s my view.

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  15. @Blight – at last we get to the point of your hostility: that Israelis are destroying the “good name” of the Jews. Well, there certainly is something to be said for this argument, but personally I find the Jewish community more responsible for it than Israel. There have been impressive ISRAELI developments in many areas: technology, agriculture, pharmaceuticals, etc. And in fact Israel holds it’s own quite well in the arts as well, especially given the countries size and the limited number of people who speak Hebrew (in the world).

    I am rather conflicted about how the ‘Diaspora’ Jewish community should relate to Israel. Certainly not by blindly supporting everything that the Israeli government does! On the other hand, I also have little patience for Westerners who naively support anything just because it is anti-Israel. This is a very complicated topic, and this is not the appropriate thread.

    This is a conflict between Israelis and Palestinians. For this land. This is not some existential battle between “cultures”. I do not think that outside influences are helping to bring this conflict to a resolution. And no I do not think that the US government should be “supporting Israel” in any way at all. Israel is strong enough and mature enough to make it’s own decision. And Israel needs to be responsible for the consequences.

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  17. Outside powers can be useful in banging heads together, but they cannot impose a solution.

    Cast lead was widely supported because the previous ‘situation’ was not sustainable. No government can sit by and do nothing while missiles are falling on you day in and day out. Sure they were not particularly accurate, nor did they do much actual damage, but that is beside the point. And from that point of view, the operation was a success. There were very few missile launched until recently.

    But just like the last round in Lebanon, I think that the desired deterrent effect could have been achieved in a few days of heavy retaliation. There is no military solution to this conflict, so trying to achieve one is futile.

    I am generally against the BDS movement. I do not think that it is targeting the right people to be effective. Most of the BDS “supporters” do not really understand the issues, but it has become trendy to be anti-Israel. Certainly Israel has hugely helped in this!

    Just lock up the relevant Israeli representatives (Leiberman, Bibi, a few Rabbis, from Shas, the settlements, etc.) together with the appropriate Palestinian representatives (Salaam Fayed, Marwan Barghouti, Ismail Haniya, Khaled Meshaal, etc.) and let them bash it out amongst themselves. Nobody leaves until an appropriate modus operandi is worked out.

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  19. Zvi, just a few points:
    (1) rockets (not missiles- no need for special effects in the comment zone) were fired from Gaza for more than a decade. Action was taken 2 months before an election. And boy do I wish I had taped the Kadima meeting I was at around the time it was established (years before cast lead, back when kadima ddnt need to blow ppl up to try to win an election), where Sderot citizens asked those same people that launched that attack, why there is never any response to the rockets, and those politicians answered that the rockets are a nuisance, but dont essentially cause that much damage, so they don’t see a need to respond.
    (2) saying that its become trendy to be anti-israel is first of all, detached from reality. second- a wrong analysis. Israelis that support BDS don’t do it because they hate israel, they do it exactly because they feel connected to Israel, want to see it flourish, and think this is the best way to do that. Don’t dismiss legitimate arguments by spewing propaganda.

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  21. Ilan, I don’t have the time at the moment to do sufficient ‘thought-checking’ on my comments. And of course there were other considerations in the timing of that particular operation, as opposed to the last Lebanese war which was provoked.

    I have no problem with Israelis or Palestinians supporting BDS because they know what they are protesting. I am all for legitimate arguments about the situation and I enjoy very much partaking in them. It is the naive fools who express blind certainty in their opinions and yet cannot even find the Middle-East on a map who annoy me. And from my perspective (I no longer live in Israel), BDS seems to be a very trendy fad indeed.



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