Comments on: Settler leader: Democracy must be dismantled

By: Mitchell Cohen

Mitchell Cohen — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 14:23:04 +0000

Philos, how ’bout this then: if you saw a terrorist plot foiled, it was advertised in the paper that they were Muslim extremists and said “Ha! Proof in the pudding”, would you be called a racist by most sensible people? It’s really not so hard to understand the comparison, REALLY….

By: Philos

Philos — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 14:01:51 +0000

If you saw a black robber who was sentenced to 15-years incarceration (the maximum in most states) whereas whites are incarcerated for a few years to say “Proof in the pudding (that the US judicial system is institutionally racist)” then I’d agree with you and not call you racist. You see the proof in the pudding is about the context of said pudding

By: Mitchell Cohen

Mitchell Cohen — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 12:02:12 +0000

PS My great grandparents did not flee Poland and Russia because of Christian or Muslim extremism, but because of Communism. Yes, Fascism will fail, but so will a Hebrew speaking version of the KGB.

By: Mitchell Cohen

Mitchell Cohen — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 11:34:18 +0000

Kibbutznik, my thoughts are this:

Amihy Zoaretz and all those involved to be brought to justice – YES!!!!

A witch hunt of all national religious and/or residents of Judea and Samaria in the IDF – NO!!!!

Philos, if in America after seeing a black robber being escorted to jail, I said “Ha! Proof in the pudding”, what would you call that? I would RIGHTLY call it RACISM.

By: Kibbutznik

Kibbutznik — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 11:31:27 +0000

” Thanks for the link Kibbutznik ”

you are welcome bro
after Rabin’s assassination I was sure we were headed towards civil war and I sounded much like you do today , well we got over that and we will get over this to.
.
“Fascism will fail. You’ll see”
Amen .

By: Philos

Philos — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 21:45:20 +0000

Ha! Proof in the pudding I dare say Mr. Cohen. Thanks for the link Kibbutznik. And even if I do leave I’ll be back in no time when everyone is ready for some civil arm wrestling over the fate of Israel.

By: Kibbutznik

Kibbutznik — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 20:48:28 +0000

Would appreciate your thoughts on this Mitchell,
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4174512,00.html

By: Mitchell Cohen

Mitchell Cohen — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 16:53:49 +0000

“Mitchell, I’ve worked vigourously on the statistics about national-religious in the army and it’s a load of balooney fueled by the IDF command (for God knows what reason) and the media.” [End of Philos] Philos, YOU are the one ranting about the religious “infiltrating the army”, so you kind of backed yourself into a corner.
“As such the fact that even though 10% of all IDF soldiers are national-reglious but 30% of all combat officers are national-religious makes me suspect that it is in large part an ideological struggle over the identity of the IDF.” [End of Philos] Guess what. I am suspect of the homogeneity of the Supreme Court (and not in favor of the religious or right of center).
“The biggest problem with the settlement movement is that your ideology makes you believe you have the god-given right to tell soldiers to be insubordinate, to infiltrate the state with sympathizers and that all of secular Israelis are stupid donkeys with whom you can do whatever you want. And that’s leaving behind your visceral racism and anti-gentilism. Like true fascists democracy suits you when it suits you, and when it doesn’t you claim that the state is ruled by mysterious cabals of left-wing elites. Fascism will fail. You’ll see.” [End of Philos] Philos, you don’t know me, my community, or how most settlers feel, so cut the [self-censored]. YOU are the one who is all for democracy if it suits you and, if not, YOU and the rest of the “beautiful people” know what the rest of the country really wants/needs. Please spare me the self-righteousness. Besides, I remember you saying you were leaving and not coming back (in more than one post). So, let those of us staying here decide (democratically) what is good for us.

By: Philos

Philos — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 15:05:19 +0000

Mitchell, I’ve worked vigourously on the statistics about national-religious in the army and it’s a load of balooney fueled by the IDF command (for God knows what reason) and the media. For example, if a settlement school send 80% of its boys to combat units out of a graduating class of 200 that’s 160 combat soldiers (presuming they all make it through basic training of course). A school in TA which sends about 40% of its boys to combat units will provide anywhere from 200 to 300 troops depending on size. The fact is that the cities of Israel supply the overwhelming supply of soldiers in this country thanks to sheer demographics. The fact is, as has been reported in Maarchot, national-religious soldiers make up 10% of the entire IDF demographic.
My problem isn’t with meritocracy. My problem is with the expressed agenda of “infiltration” into institutions of state in order to subvert the state at a later stage. The rabbis who lead hesder yeshivot inculcate loyalty to them first and the state second among many of their students (not all of course). As such the fact that even though 10% of all IDF soldiers are national-reglious but 30% of all combat officers are national-religious makes me suspect that it is in large part an ideological struggle over the identity of the IDF. I question the loyalty of all national-relgious settlers to Israeli democracy and I think rightly so.
The biggest problem with the settlement movement is that your ideology makes you believe you have the god-given right to tell soldiers to be insubordinate, to infiltrate the state with sympathizers and that all of secular Israelis are stupid donkeys with whom you can do whatever you want. And that’s leaving behind your visceral racism and anti-gentilism. Like true fascists democracy suits you when it suits you, and when it doesn’t you claim that the state is ruled by mysterious cabals of left-wing elites. Fascism will fail. You’ll see.

By: Kibbutznik

Kibbutznik — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:38:27 +0000

” Kibbutznik (I hope you are):
“what are we going to do ????”
–ask that question. Find answers among yoursleves. Not from outsiders. From your people. Because of questions as yours I do not lose hope.”

Oh I am Greg, generations already , of the HaShomer HaTzair variety .
We are asking ourselves and we are lisining to our young people many who are talking just like Philos.
And let me make one thing very clear, like Mitchell we older and wiser members want no civil war BUT should our worst nightmare ever happen we will stand shoulder to shoulder with Philos and with those like minded like him .