Comments on: September journey part 11: Day of arrest ends

By: sh

sh — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:02:16 +0000

Spazieren is an institution with the Palestinians too: They call it sarha, according to an original, instructive (did you know, for instance, that almond trees never grow in the wild and are thus always a sign that an area was inhabited?) and beautifully written book by Raha Shehadeh called Palestinian Walks.

By: Dimi

Dimi — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 07:27:41 +0000

Ben, because people are people everywhere

By: Ben Israel

Ben Israel — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 02:53:05 +0000

Daniel Davis-
“People are people everywhere”. IF that is so, why are there wars and conflicts?

By: Lisa Goldman

Lisa Goldman — Mon, 12 Sep 2011 22:08:11 +0000

Hi Robert, If you re-read my comment you’ll see that I specified Hebron was particularly conservative, and that the Middle East is a diverse place.

And I certainly agree that a veil does not imply religiosity. Women veil for lots of different reasons – including family pressure, identity politics and cultural mores.

By: Robert Soran-Schwarz (@_No1)

Robert Soran-Schwarz (@_No1) — Mon, 12 Sep 2011 20:31:30 +0000

I forgot something, Yuval
A remarkable sentence from a former spokesperson, it’s not critical of your father, but of the professional mentality that takes over spokespersons in general
Your father wrote (or maybe is it your translation from Hebrew only?? Than it would be fine, more or less):
“Your father who loves you more than anything.”

And this is it … instead of the expected

“Your father who loves you more than anybody.”

My father was – among others – a governmental spokesperson, too ….

By: Daniel Davis

Daniel Davis — Mon, 12 Sep 2011 19:14:14 +0000

Yuval, I totally agree with you that Hebron is a pleasant place to visit. I was there in 2008 with a Canadian friend, entering the Beit-Lehem checkpoint with my US passport. I must say I felt so much more safe and at home on the Palestinian side of the city, being offered coffee and food everywhere and getting positive and friendly responses when I hesitantly told them I’m Israeli and live in Jerusalem. It was only when I reached the Jewish part of Hebron that I felt I was in danger. They were hostile, suspicious and sending their kids to follow us in the streets. I learned so much from that day and it only strengthened me belief that the reality seen in the media if very far from what is really going on. People are people, everywhere.

By: rpasion in albuquerque nm

rpasion in albuquerque nm — Mon, 12 Sep 2011 18:47:57 +0000

been and will follow your sept journeys; i love this post! and the response letter to your dad.

By: Yuval Ben-Ami

Yuval Ben-Ami — Mon, 12 Sep 2011 17:49:08 +0000

Thanks Deir Yassin, I think this makes the point more specific and helpful. I accept Lisa’s point that the Middle East is diverse, and of course friendships come in all shapes and sizes also in muslim countries. I do not deny that I am inflicted with my own misjudgements and prejudices.
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Still, I did sense that some kind of a rule persisted in both Jaffa and Dura (which are very different and distinct in atmosphere) and hoped to deduct from that some lesson about the society at large.
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As for your question, Sylvia: The West Bank is split into three forms of territory according to agreements signed in the 90s as part of what wassupposed to be a transitory situation.
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Area A, which includes most Palestinian city centers and several chunks of the countryside, is meant to be entirely Palestinian-controlled. Area B is under joint control and Area C is fully Israeli controlled despite being beyond the green line.
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Over the years a disintegration of the cooperation systems rendered these definisions looser. The IDF ventures into Area A cities such as Nablus on a regular basis, but the ban forbidding Israelis from entering these cities remains.
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when thinking of the palestinian authority, one must bear in mind that it does not control the entire west bank, but rather a chain of scattered Area A islands. In order to move from one island to the rest, as in from Ramallah to Nablus, one must pass through a region designated as Area c, where the IDF is free to set up a checkpoint.
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The exception to this system is Hebron, which is devided between H2 (treated as an Area C) and H1 (treated as an Area A) The following map may prove helpful in understanding all this.
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http://www.bicom.org.uk/context/maps/modern-day-israel/west-bank

By: Robert Soran-Schwarz (@_No1)

Robert Soran-Schwarz (@_No1) — Mon, 12 Sep 2011 17:47:22 +0000

Platonic boy-girl friendships (four eyes relationship, not as part of a platonically “swinging” group) in Palestinian milieus are rather unusual, despite Sam’s protest .
The same applies to 95% of the Muslim Levant geography (the remaining 5% are larger cities …).
What’s fine in Beirut’s mundane areas or in the better places in Cairo/Alexandria, or in Haifa is not the rule or accepted social behavior in the Bekaa Valley, El-Arish, Hebron …
You’ll find everywhere (100% of the geography) same-sex friends holding hands, hug, and kiss in public, but there is very limited touching between men and women, especially in public …

Lisa, let’s compare apple with apple: a veiled woman is not automatically an “orthodox” Muslim, often – see for example Cairo – she is just a normal girl/young woman with a veil …
and a kippa doesn’t mean that one avoids singles’ bars or same-sex swinger bars

The correct comparison, between orthodox/haredi pairs and orthodox/Islamic pairs would show that both pairs avoid exactly the same gender related behavior
Regards

By: Robert Soran-Schwarz (@_No1)

Robert Soran-Schwarz (@_No1) — Mon, 12 Sep 2011 17:30:26 +0000

1.
The best thing about the infamous Ben-Gurion “checkpoints” to freedom [ ]: you’ll ALWAYS pass them safely and land in a flight.
Out want they you always, except you’re a former nuclear spy.
2. “Spatz, wir spazieren”. “Spatz” is a “Vogel” often known as “motek”, “love” or just – routinely – wife (if you’re monogamous).
A nice, typical German over-precision: “Spatz, gehen wir spazieren” = (My Small)darling, (let’s) go walking”
3. Why “in Gottes Namen” didn’t you try the chance of getting dropped off by the road by telling the Palestinian policemen between two cups of cardammoned coffee in all confidence “You know, let us go, we are trustworthy: Christ-Tine is German, and my father was a simple, nice IDF spokeperson”? Hmmm …, I tried once something not so different – but without Israeli references – in a communist country, before they all disappeared. It made a great, yet to be written story, a standup comedy…

I specially enjoyed the one key sentence from your inner-familiar thoughts exchange, coming from your father:
“Son , (…), the area of Hebron is swarming with Hamas operatives, who constantly plot to kidnap Israelis and kill them, with no feelings or compassion”
Why?
a). I visualized the “swarming Hamas operatives” in the wild Hebron area:
b). Secondly, I just excluded all Fatah and PLO (Hamas is not in PLO) operatives who probably swarm only inside of Gaza, because they fear the overweight of Hamas (and, who knows, Kahanists?) in the Hebron area ;
c). I learned that the Hamas mind is from an other planet: They always plot to first kidnap, and first afterwards to kill Israelis. I knew that they are insane! Me, I would just kill and let the kidnapping out of the process…
Well, it’s a difference of mentality. I was born in the West, and live in Germany: therefore I was sentenced to being “effective and efficient”. Should I have been Scheherezade, I would have told the stories, from A to Z, during a weekend, and would have spent the remaining 999 days (and nights) with the swarm of strong, good looking Eunuchs in the harem. Hoping that the caliph didn’t cut off their tongues …

Let me jump to a question I otherwise would forget:
Rami, “the officer who receives us, explains that we are 1019 meters above sea level, atop the country’s fourth highest mountain.”
Which country was he talking about?

Not just to be cocky: MahAne Yehuda, for those who look up in google maps.
Thanks for the instructive, nice, illustrated acount(s). Kind regards to Tine, to you, and to your present and future family members (I’m an optimist…)