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	<title>Comments on: Save Susya campaign: Over 12,000 faxes annoy Defense Ministry</title>
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	<link>http://972mag.com/save-susya-campaign-defense-ministry-annoyed-by-12500-faxes-jamming-their-machines/51807/</link>
	<description>Independent commentary and news from Israel &#38; Palestine</description>
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		<title>By: Piotr Berman</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/save-susya-campaign-defense-ministry-annoyed-by-12500-faxes-jamming-their-machines/51807/comment-page-1/#comment-70145</link>
		<dc:creator>Piotr Berman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2012 21:41:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=51807#comment-70145</guid>
		<description>Eli: It is an extremely racist comment. What does it matter where a Jew comes from.

The comment in question was in reply to another comment that alleged that Jews came from Susiya and it was a remark that the original inhabitants of Susiya apparently spoke Yiddish.  That could be expanded to an even more sarcastic remark, that the earliest inhabitants were Neanderthal, hence they surely spoke Yiddish.  Where would that be on Eli&#039;s scale of racism?

However, if it does not matter were Jews came FROM, why they have to go to TO Susiya?

Kolumn9: perhaps you are right that faxers could damage IDF, but what kind of military force lacks defenses against this method of attack?  For that matter, IDF does not have to print all those faxes.  Not too mention that 12,000 is not such a high number.  It really puzzled me what damages can be done by relatively few faxes, but after collecting some data, I got an idea.

One data point is that allegedly IDF does not have idea what to do with all the female conscript that it has, as the command is reticent in assigning them all to combat duties.  This leads to overstaffing of clerical positions with young female conscripts who would have to sort faxes and dump the faxes that are annoying to the command.

The second data point is that on occasion the young female conscripts may be influenced by unfriendly messages and they loyalty can be somewhat compromised.  That could describe the case of Anat Kamm.

On one hand, IDF has almost unlimited womanpower, and if they are short, they can extend conscription to Haredi girls, thus there is no resource problem to organize a fax brigade with the capacity of sorting up to a million faxes per day.  And I assume that the operational capacities of IDF command cannot be diminished even by all Iranians faxing all day long.  On the other hand, the loyalty of the fax brigade (or fax platoons etc.) could be susceptible to messages that are well formulated and in Hebrew.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eli: It is an extremely racist comment. What does it matter where a Jew comes from.</p>
<p>The comment in question was in reply to another comment that alleged that Jews came from Susiya and it was a remark that the original inhabitants of Susiya apparently spoke Yiddish.  That could be expanded to an even more sarcastic remark, that the earliest inhabitants were Neanderthal, hence they surely spoke Yiddish.  Where would that be on Eli&#8217;s scale of racism?</p>
<p>However, if it does not matter were Jews came FROM, why they have to go to TO Susiya?</p>
<p>Kolumn9: perhaps you are right that faxers could damage IDF, but what kind of military force lacks defenses against this method of attack?  For that matter, IDF does not have to print all those faxes.  Not too mention that 12,000 is not such a high number.  It really puzzled me what damages can be done by relatively few faxes, but after collecting some data, I got an idea.</p>
<p>One data point is that allegedly IDF does not have idea what to do with all the female conscript that it has, as the command is reticent in assigning them all to combat duties.  This leads to overstaffing of clerical positions with young female conscripts who would have to sort faxes and dump the faxes that are annoying to the command.</p>
<p>The second data point is that on occasion the young female conscripts may be influenced by unfriendly messages and they loyalty can be somewhat compromised.  That could describe the case of Anat Kamm.</p>
<p>On one hand, IDF has almost unlimited womanpower, and if they are short, they can extend conscription to Haredi girls, thus there is no resource problem to organize a fax brigade with the capacity of sorting up to a million faxes per day.  And I assume that the operational capacities of IDF command cannot be diminished even by all Iranians faxing all day long.  On the other hand, the loyalty of the fax brigade (or fax platoons etc.) could be susceptible to messages that are well formulated and in Hebrew.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerusalemite</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/save-susya-campaign-defense-ministry-annoyed-by-12500-faxes-jamming-their-machines/51807/comment-page-1/#comment-69912</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerusalemite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 15:46:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=51807#comment-69912</guid>
		<description>Arib - I guess I just don&#039;t connect to a notion of justice that privileges the rights of the people who lived somewhere over 2000 years ago over the rights of those who live there now. I find historical justice to be less important than justice for real, living, flesh and blood human beings. But you know, maybe you think that the lives and rights of human beings are just less important than the ability of messianic fanatics to live where they think that their forefathers did. 
  
I also don&#039;t connect to a notion of justice which can even begin to discuss these lands as somehow belonging to Israel in any reasonable sense.  These are Palestinian lands, and the very concept of (Israeli) &quot;state lands&quot; is absurd in this context. I don&#039;t think that Israeli sovereignty over these people and their lands is legitimate or just. 

Finally, appealing to some sort of legalistic argument (&quot;but the High Court ruled!&quot;) is a joke. Palestinians don&#039;t exactly get  a fair shake at the hands of the legal Israeli authorities.  

But you know, everyone can have their own moral code, and not all of them have to make reference to universal human values or a belief in the inalienability of human rights (dignity, movement, self-determination, etc.). You can also turn colonialism and racism into a moral code if you want. It tends to work out badly for all involved, but hey, whatever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arib &#8211; I guess I just don&#8217;t connect to a notion of justice that privileges the rights of the people who lived somewhere over 2000 years ago over the rights of those who live there now. I find historical justice to be less important than justice for real, living, flesh and blood human beings. But you know, maybe you think that the lives and rights of human beings are just less important than the ability of messianic fanatics to live where they think that their forefathers did. </p>
<p>I also don&#8217;t connect to a notion of justice which can even begin to discuss these lands as somehow belonging to Israel in any reasonable sense.  These are Palestinian lands, and the very concept of (Israeli) &#8220;state lands&#8221; is absurd in this context. I don&#8217;t think that Israeli sovereignty over these people and their lands is legitimate or just. </p>
<p>Finally, appealing to some sort of legalistic argument (&#8220;but the High Court ruled!&#8221;) is a joke. Palestinians don&#8217;t exactly get  a fair shake at the hands of the legal Israeli authorities.  </p>
<p>But you know, everyone can have their own moral code, and not all of them have to make reference to universal human values or a belief in the inalienability of human rights (dignity, movement, self-determination, etc.). You can also turn colonialism and racism into a moral code if you want. It tends to work out badly for all involved, but hey, whatever.</p>
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		<title>By: Arib</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/save-susya-campaign-defense-ministry-annoyed-by-12500-faxes-jamming-their-machines/51807/comment-page-1/#comment-69857</link>
		<dc:creator>Arib</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 08:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=51807#comment-69857</guid>
		<description>Jerusalemite, Where do you get off asking Eli if European Jews were in Susiya even for a day. It is an extremely racist comment. What does it matter where a Jew comes from. I am sure you are aware that there was an extensive ancient Jewish town found in Susiya and that the Jewish town of Susiya is mentioned in ancient Jewish Texts dating back 2000 years. This is not propaganda, like what you sprout, only the truth, do your research better next time. 
Now with regards to the Arab squatters, guess what, they and their lawyers had multiple opportunities to prove, in court, ownership of the land and although Akiva Eldar wrote in Haaretz they have proof, none was provided to the courts on these multiple opportunities. So Akiva Eldar lied as does anyone who says they have such proof, because if they had the proof, they obviously would have shown it. 
However there is proof, that these illegal squatters are herders from the city of Yatta who have decided to &quot;branch out&quot; settle and take land that is not legally theirs. The High Court ruled as such and allowed the CA to apply demolition orders against these illegal actions of these squatters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jerusalemite, Where do you get off asking Eli if European Jews were in Susiya even for a day. It is an extremely racist comment. What does it matter where a Jew comes from. I am sure you are aware that there was an extensive ancient Jewish town found in Susiya and that the Jewish town of Susiya is mentioned in ancient Jewish Texts dating back 2000 years. This is not propaganda, like what you sprout, only the truth, do your research better next time.<br />
Now with regards to the Arab squatters, guess what, they and their lawyers had multiple opportunities to prove, in court, ownership of the land and although Akiva Eldar wrote in Haaretz they have proof, none was provided to the courts on these multiple opportunities. So Akiva Eldar lied as does anyone who says they have such proof, because if they had the proof, they obviously would have shown it.<br />
However there is proof, that these illegal squatters are herders from the city of Yatta who have decided to &#8220;branch out&#8221; settle and take land that is not legally theirs. The High Court ruled as such and allowed the CA to apply demolition orders against these illegal actions of these squatters.</p>
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		<title>By: Save Susya campaign: Over 12,000 faxes annoy Defense Ministry 26Jul12 &#124; Australians for Palestine</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/save-susya-campaign-defense-ministry-annoyed-by-12500-faxes-jamming-their-machines/51807/comment-page-1/#comment-69749</link>
		<dc:creator>Save Susya campaign: Over 12,000 faxes annoy Defense Ministry 26Jul12 &#124; Australians for Palestine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 14:01:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=51807#comment-69749</guid>
		<description>[...] Mairav Sonszein    -   +972    -  25 July [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mairav Sonszein    -   +972    -  25 July [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jerusalemite</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/save-susya-campaign-defense-ministry-annoyed-by-12500-faxes-jamming-their-machines/51807/comment-page-1/#comment-69721</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerusalemite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:28:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=51807#comment-69721</guid>
		<description>Ansje (and others) - It would be much more effective if you would mail or fax your own representatives, whether in the EU or in the States or wherever, and ask them to appeal to the Israeli ambassador/consul to stop the destruction of the South Hebron Hills villages and to oppose the annexation of Area C Palestinian lands. 

I don&#039;t think there&#039;s much point in foreigners bombarding Israeli authorities, to be honest. The whole point of the present action was to show the Israeli authorities that a significant number of israelis oppose land theft and ethnic cleansing. However, your mileage may vary, and if there&#039;s a real demand for making it possible for non-Israelis to appeal directly to Israeli authorities, that could definitely happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ansje (and others) &#8211; It would be much more effective if you would mail or fax your own representatives, whether in the EU or in the States or wherever, and ask them to appeal to the Israeli ambassador/consul to stop the destruction of the South Hebron Hills villages and to oppose the annexation of Area C Palestinian lands. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s much point in foreigners bombarding Israeli authorities, to be honest. The whole point of the present action was to show the Israeli authorities that a significant number of israelis oppose land theft and ethnic cleansing. However, your mileage may vary, and if there&#8217;s a real demand for making it possible for non-Israelis to appeal directly to Israeli authorities, that could definitely happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerusalemite</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/save-susya-campaign-defense-ministry-annoyed-by-12500-faxes-jamming-their-machines/51807/comment-page-1/#comment-69720</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerusalemite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:24:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=51807#comment-69720</guid>
		<description>Eli - Obviously, European jews have been in Susya for millenia. If I&#039;m not mistaken, the original language of Susya was Yiddish. 

But if you want to read something that isn&#039;t absurd settler propaganda, you can take a look at the many links in Hebrew and English on the following page. http://sos-susya.org/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eli &#8211; Obviously, European jews have been in Susya for millenia. If I&#8217;m not mistaken, the original language of Susya was Yiddish. </p>
<p>But if you want to read something that isn&#8217;t absurd settler propaganda, you can take a look at the many links in Hebrew and English on the following page. <a href="http://sos-susya.org/" rel="nofollow">http://sos-susya.org/</a></p>
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		<title>By: eli</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/save-susya-campaign-defense-ministry-annoyed-by-12500-faxes-jamming-their-machines/51807/comment-page-1/#comment-69716</link>
		<dc:creator>eli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:03:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=51807#comment-69716</guid>
		<description>perhaps enough with Palestinian propaganda. 
there was nobody living in susya caves prior to 1994

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4259338,00.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>perhaps enough with Palestinian propaganda.<br />
there was nobody living in susya caves prior to 1994</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4259338,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4259338,00.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jerusalemite</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/save-susya-campaign-defense-ministry-annoyed-by-12500-faxes-jamming-their-machines/51807/comment-page-1/#comment-69707</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerusalemite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 09:47:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=51807#comment-69707</guid>
		<description>If I&#039;m not mistaken, Kolumn9, these groups just provided a way for individual citizens to express their opinion to various branches of their elected government. The organizations themselves didn&#039;t send a single fax. Why would it be illegal for individuals to send faxes to the authorities?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I&#8217;m not mistaken, Kolumn9, these groups just provided a way for individual citizens to express their opinion to various branches of their elected government. The organizations themselves didn&#8217;t send a single fax. Why would it be illegal for individuals to send faxes to the authorities?</p>
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		<title>By: Kolumn9</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/save-susya-campaign-defense-ministry-annoyed-by-12500-faxes-jamming-their-machines/51807/comment-page-1/#comment-69689</link>
		<dc:creator>Kolumn9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 05:10:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=51807#comment-69689</guid>
		<description>Technically, they could start legal proceedings against the organizations that are behind this annoyance. This is the equivalent of a denial of service attack used by hackers. There are almost certainly laws on the books to deal with this. 
.

The right to freedom of the speech or organization does not extend to operations designed to damage the work carried out by the government, military, corporations or individuals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Technically, they could start legal proceedings against the organizations that are behind this annoyance. This is the equivalent of a denial of service attack used by hackers. There are almost certainly laws on the books to deal with this.<br />
.</p>
<p>The right to freedom of the speech or organization does not extend to operations designed to damage the work carried out by the government, military, corporations or individuals.</p>
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		<title>By: Piotr Berman</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/save-susya-campaign-defense-ministry-annoyed-by-12500-faxes-jamming-their-machines/51807/comment-page-1/#comment-69677</link>
		<dc:creator>Piotr Berman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 00:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=51807#comment-69677</guid>
		<description>Hm.  In an unlikely event of IDF launching an attack on Iran, hundreds of thousands of Iranians and others could send irate faxes, thus disabling IDF communications as all their faxes will be running out of paper.  A soft underbelly of the most powerful military force in the Middle East.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hm.  In an unlikely event of IDF launching an attack on Iran, hundreds of thousands of Iranians and others could send irate faxes, thus disabling IDF communications as all their faxes will be running out of paper.  A soft underbelly of the most powerful military force in the Middle East.</p>
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