Comments on: Romney visit: Hitting the ‘Palestinian punching bag’ again

By: LS

LS — Wed, 08 Aug 2012 23:31:03 +0000

Rorr, you may know what you are talking about, I certainly don’t. My Jewish relatives (now sadly deceased) who lived in Metulla during the yishuv (for your information that is prior to the formation of the state of Israel) talked about having “Palestinian” friends. I can only believe that your knowledge of the history of the yishuv is greater then mine – and mine is fairly extensive – or that you are talking rubbish. I know which I think it is.

By: Amer Zahr

Amer Zahr — Sat, 04 Aug 2012 11:39:47 +0000

Let me first thank Carl for pointing out that my article was funny

I never cease to be amazed by the ongoing mainstream discourse in Israeli society that we Palestinians are some sort of imaginary creatures. You know those beings that were ethnically cleansed in 1948? The ones being discriminated against & harassed at checkpoints? The “demographic threat”? They are not unicorns… they’re actually human beings.

As someone who lives and breathes being a Palestinian, I can say one thing with authority. Whether some in our community like to admit or not, we all know that whatever solution comes about will include our living side-by-side with Israelis, whether in two states or one. However, I am shocked (or maybe that not shocked) by the still ongoing Israeli talk of “How do we get rid of these people?”

Israel tried to get rid of us… and is still trying. But it didn’t work. We were about a million in 1948, and now we’re about 5 million in Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza.

We’re still here, and we’re obviously not going anywhere.

I encourage all Israelis to come visit Nazareth, Ramallah, and as many Arab neighborhoods in every city as they can. Look at our women! Living with us is not going to be that bad!

By: Fat Freddy's Cat

Fat Freddy's Cat — Sat, 04 Aug 2012 03:54:18 +0000

Danny, the fallacies that you pass off as history are astonishing. Not one of your sentences is correct factually. Do you believe them?

By: Piotr Berman

Piotr Berman — Sat, 04 Aug 2012 01:59:03 +0000

“The kind of culture Romney meant depends on trust between citizens, an impartial judiciary, loyalty to the polity as a whole over one’s own kin, and stuff like that.”

To what extend that describes XIX century Britain and USA is somewhat debatable. One can be also curious about a China — if it is an exception, it is not a small exception. It is even more debatable to what extend it describes Israel. Around 1975 someone who either lived or had family in the countries we discussed told me: “In Poland, you can do a lot using “connections”, in Sweden, nothing, in Israel, everything”.

There exists countries with a combination of graft, “meritocracy” and entrepreneurship that is conducive to economic growth. “Meritocracy” gives a lot of room for “connections” but still keeps total idiots away from positions of large responsibility. One may wonder if USA still has such a good combination.

By: Danny

Danny — Fri, 03 Aug 2012 22:21:46 +0000

@Mark: Let me try and shed some light here. The “Israeli” people is a 20th century invention. Jews living in Israel are decendants of recent immigrants from Poland (e.g. Benjamin Milikovsky AKA Netanyahu), Russia, Germany, Morocco, Iraq, Iran and, of course – that hotbed of Jewish nationalism and extremism – Brooklyn, NY, as well as many other countries. They immigrated mainly for two reasons: The Ashkenazis originally because of the holocaust, and the Sephardis because of Mossad-led terrorist acts in Arab states to push the Jews to move out (e.g. 1950′s Iraq). David Ben Gurion, a former PM suspected of terrorism and war crimes (he was never brought to justice) admitted it himself and even wrote a book about the true origins of the “Jewish” people (hint – even he knew that the idea that white-skinned people from eastern and northern Europe had any real connection to ancient Israelites was total and utter bullsh*t).

By: Jehudah

Jehudah — Fri, 03 Aug 2012 12:10:30 +0000

Mr. Romney’s visit to Israel and his speech and interviews in front of the David Citadel – named after our king, King David, who set up Jerusalem/Zion as the spiritual and administrative center of the kingdom more than 3,000 years ago, a position which, in Jewish minds, has not changed all of these years – instead of the Dome of the Rock, a site turned important to Islam only in the 7th century after the Muslims conquered Jerusalem, but in a city that even the Muslims have never considered a capital city of any other people or a state, is refreshing.

His visit also raised question about Mr. Romney’s opponent, such as what is Israel’s capital. The following are two expressions by both the State Department and the White House under the leadership of Mr. Obama that clearly refuse to accept Jerusalem – ANY PART OF IT – as Israel’s capital…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEyPdUXGYL8

Isn’t it time we all told Mr. Obama – friends and foes alike – that the capital city of the Jewish people since time immemorial, and of the nation-state of the Jewish people, Israel, since 14 May 1948, is Jerusalem….??!!

P.S. In the first clip, the Obama’s State Department spokeswoman, clearly, refers to Tel-Aviv as Israel’s capital, although attempting to cover her statement…!!

By: Carl

Carl — Fri, 03 Aug 2012 11:05:35 +0000

Could I be the first to point out that this article was hilarious.
.
Can I also point out that the ‘I’m more native than you’ argument going on in the comments is so dull and futile, it’s barely even distracting me from doing the job I’m paid to do. Then again, I’d love it if someone actually came out with a killer piece of logic which made the other side go ‘Oh yeah, I don’t feel an attachment to Israel/Palestine now you put it like that: my mistake’

By: Rorr

Rorr — Fri, 03 Aug 2012 10:17:06 +0000

When you said somebody was a palestinian before 1948 it meant that he/she was Jewish. Everything the palestinians say or do is in response to Jews. Left to themselves their at a loss.

By: Aaron

Aaron — Fri, 03 Aug 2012 09:32:15 +0000

Well, you *are* a demographic threat. What’s so bad about talking about that? We Jews are a demographic threat, too, to an Arab polity in Palestine. I don’t mind if anyone points that out.

Same with the “invented people” bit. The Jews are an invented people, too. It’s just that we were invented a few thousand years before you were. Golda Meir was right, AT THE TIME, that there was no Palestinian people, for a reasonable definition of “people.” There is now, though. But for once I gotta agree with Piotr: So what? If Zionism is unjust, it’s not because there was a people here before.

Also, I think you’re misunderstanding the cultural argument. Whether it’s valid or not, it’s not just about knowing how to bargain at the shuk/souk. It’s great that your father was able to Jew down the car dealer, but that’s not enough to constitute a culture of prosperity. The kind of culture Romney meant depends on trust between citizens, an impartial judiciary, loyalty to the polity as a whole over one’s own kin, and stuff like that.

By: Piotr Berman

Piotr Berman — Fri, 03 Aug 2012 08:16:15 +0000

Israel is not oppressing some abstract group that may have recent or antique “identity” but concrete individuals. When they deny farmers access to their land, demolish homes and other builings, bury wells, encircle villages with walls and barbed wire etc. etc. concrete individuals are affected.

Does it matter if the oppressors ancestors were in Siberia 2000 years ago or in Palestine? Does it matter if the oppressed had ancestors in Turkey or in Palestine? Oppression is oppression.

Suppose that a Sudanese government loyalist would argue that there is no nation of Fur (land of the Fur = Darfur) but an amalgamation of very loosely related tribes often mutually hostile? Oppression in Darfur was real.

One think is certain about cultural superiority: it is at its lowest when it is proudly proclaimed. Actually, the argument is pretty old, and it was always used to the effect that the poor and the “natives” in case of colonies or Ireland are inferior and should defer to their betters (or be subjected to stern measures).