26 comments for ”Rightists march in Jaffa and go on the attack in the West Bank“

    
  1. ” Right wing agitators led by Knesset member Michael Ben-Ari (National Union) marched through Jaffa this morning in an act of provocation … ”
    Who best to answer this one than our very own Ben Israel , its his political party of choice after all , yet he remains silent while constantly belittling the Left .
    Why Joseph Dana , ??? , ” internal instead of external political matters ” the public can do both you know , my guess is that Barak is looking to his political future which is looking rather bleak at the moment . ;}

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  3. Of course the public can do both. I meant that attention will shift and settler news will dominate the headlines of the news cycle while other matters will get buried or receive less airtime. I believe this trick is also used in the United States and throughout the Western world.

    Nice point that Ben Israel has remained quiet on this matter. What could he really say? I am sure that he feels that settlers have the right to attack soldiers as they see fit. And clearly, extreme right racists are entitled to march through Jaffa is an Israeli city. He will probably add some insult to the left as well decrying our attacks on the right as intolerance. What is said though is that Ben Israel’s rhetoric is a coherent version of the underlying racism of our society which is driven by liberal Zionist ideology. While he can written off as a right wing fanatic, the responsibility for his ideology of racism and ignorance lies in the hands of the society from which he came. In this upsetting way, we are all Ben Israel and change can only begin within ourselves.

    Best,
    Joseph

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  5. ” What is said though is that Ben Israel’s rhetoric is a coherent version of the underlying racism of our society which is driven by liberal Zionist ideology. While he can written off as a right wing fanatic, the responsibility for his ideology of racism and ignorance lies in the hands of the society from which he came. In this upsetting way, we are all Ben Israel and change can only begin within ourselves. ”

    100% agree with you Joseph which is why I became a post-zionist and now totally reject liberal Zionist ideology and why I vote Hadash .
    ” lies in the hands of the society from which he came. ”
    He came from America same place where Baruch Marzel and Itamar Ben-Gvir got their ideology from , Kach , born and bred in America and imported to here .

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  7. Post Zionism is another debate. I do not think that Ben Israel coming from America is the issue. His thinking is a product of Zionism and the drive for ethnic state for Jews. At this point I find that the settlers are the ultimate embodiment of Zionism. Liberal Zionists in other parts of the country, while they decry the racism of the settlers, send their children to humiliate and control Palestinians on a daily basis. This is what my last comment was driving at. We are Ben Israel in so far as we send our children to protect him and violate Palestinians in order for him to speak of Jewish strength and nationalism. We are the settlers and liberal zionism is the ideology which has allowed the settlers to become what they are today. In this sad way, the settlers are the least dangerous people in Israel. The liberals that live in North Tel Àviv or Nataf who vote for Meretz are the most dangerous because they try to rationalise using the language of liberalism what is basically racism in action. All the while, their children are somewhere in the West Bank committing crimes against a defenceless civilian population. I would take the absurd language of Ben Israel to that any day of the week!
    Best

    Joseph

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  9. now that is where we disagree
    I’m no pacifist Joseph , this country would not last a month without the army .
    The way to change is though the ballot box , its the only option open to us , there will be no revolution or no civil war here .
    You want to fight the Right , vote against them .

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  11. This article is dishonest.

    1) First of all, it is stated that “Unlike the Palestinian march, 15 people were arrested and one border police officer was injured amid violent clashes” and one police officer was injured. However, the article fails to mention that all those arrested were actually leftist counter-demonstrators. The police officer was injured by a left-wing counter-demonstrator throwing rocks at the police. The rightists were peaceful. It is totally dishonest to say that the protesters were “causing headaches” when leftists had actually been the violent ones.

    2) Secondly, the article describes the protest as an “act of provocation”. However, it is the right of citizens to stage protests in any democratic system, in any city. This publication does not call leftist demonstrators a ‘provocation’. A gay rights march or pro-Palestinian march in Jerusalem is not considered a ‘provocation’ but a right wing march is. The author is just using rhetoric to demean protesters who disagree with him, when in fact a protest – whatever agenda it promotes – is perfectly acceptable and not inherently a provocation.

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  13. Joseph – I salute you for being honest and upfront about your political beliefs. You are an anti-Zionist who believes that millions of Palestinian refugees (and their children and grandchildren) from around the world should have the right to return to what is today Israel and that Israel will then be transformed into an Arab state of Palestine, with perhaps a 30% Jewish minority.

    While I believe that upwards of 90% of Jewish Israelis vehemently disagree with your beliefs and find them unfathomable, I can definitely respect the fact that you are fighting for what you believe in.

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  15. Kibbutznik – I think that is Joseph’s whole point – he does not want “this country (Israel)” to last. He believes in a one-state solution with all Palestinian refugees being able to return to Israel. The BDS movement which he subscribes to is very clear about this point. Effectively, this means that him and his colleagues are fighting to turn what is today Israel into an Arab state of Palestine which will then have a minority community of formerly Israeli Jews.

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  17. Joseph – I apologize for labeling you an anti-Zionist. I was jumping to a conclusion perhaps wrongly since there are in fact forms of Zionism which do not require Jewish political power (Judah Magnes Zionism). I assumed though since you based many of Israel’s issues on “Zionism.”

    I assumed you supported the Palestinian right of return to Israel based on the BDS call that you have given your signature to which states as its third demand:

    3. Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN resolution 194.

    I believe that this is a big sticking point for many Jews that you call to join you in supporting the BDS call. There are probably many like Kibbutznik who support completely ending the occupation and full civil rights for Arabs in Israel (the first two demands of BDS movement) – but who draw a red line at allowing millions of children of Palestinian refugees to become citizens of Israel who will then undoubtedly transform what today people know of as “Israel” into “Greater Palestine.” I think if this demand were not included in BDS call – you will indeed find many willing to support the Palestinian nonviolent movement.

    But you are correct all this is certainly off topic for your post.

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  19. It is indeed a complicated issue as I will concede that many of these refugees are in dire circumstances. Perhaps there are really no right or wrong answers but I salute you for having the courage to think about them and write about them and go against the grain of Israeli society to fight for the ideals you believe in.

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  21. Joseph-You are a mind reader. You know every single thing I think. Tell me, what did I have for breakfast today?

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  23. Joseph wrote:
    ———————————————
    Jack,
    As a citizen of Israel who lives in the country with no prospect or timetable on leaving, I take offense to your aggressive labeling.
    ———————————————–

    Joseph, I suggest you look in the mirror. You gave a whole rundown on positions you ASSUME I take without knowing anything about what I really think about these matters, and then you moan about somebody else’s “agressive labelling” about you!

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  25. Language is important when writing an article. When you write “an act of provocation supported by 1000 police and border police officers”, it implys that the police SUPPORTED this march. They didn’t, they were there to SECURE the march and ensure that things did not get violent. Yes their presence enabled the march to happen, but the court approved the march and from that point on it’s the police responsibility to keep the peace. It’s not up to each police officer to decide not to take part.

    Your wording implies some sort of wrongdoing here on the part of the police.

    Often times your posts use problematic language that cross the line from journalism/reporting to opinion, dogma, and polemic.

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  27. For the record, yes I support the settlements.
    I am absolutely convinced that giving up the settlements would not bring peace but would bring war, as was the case with Gush Katif.
    I strongly oppose the division of Jerusalem which must remain under Israeli control. I am absolutely convinced that dividing the city would bring about the DESTRUCTION of the city where it would become a permanent shooting gallery and it would end up the way it was between 1948 and 1967. There is no question the large majority of Israeli and majority of east Jerusalem Arabs agree with me.
    The only way I would support a Palestinian state is on condition that there be some sort of confederation which would allow Jews and Arabs to live on both sides of the border while being allowed to choose the country they wish to be citizens in and people would have the ability to cross the border on a daily basis to work. This would apply to Jerusalem as well.
    I strongly oppose attacks on soldiers. I strongly oppose “price tag” attacks on Palestinians or their property. Those who do these things should be arrested and jailed.
    Regarding the march in Yafo, I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I don’t like to see disorder. On the other hand, if Arabs can march through the city yelling “Death to the Jews” while carrying Palestinian flags (as was reported here at 972), then Jews have the right to march with Israeli flags. As I understand, they did NOT yell counterslogans of the same type.

    I particularly am amused by Kibbutznik’s ideas of collective guilt…i.e. Jews who come from America are all fanatics and are not “really” Israelis, unlike Polish immigrants Shimon Peres or Moroccan immigrants who are “really Israelis”.

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  29. ” Kibbutznik: I never said anything about disbanding the army. I am not sure why you are jumping to conclusions and literally putting words in my mouth. This seems to be a theme among commenters, perhaps it is a good idea to reread the material and then start discussing. ”

    My apologies Joseph , its a very sensitive subject and I get anti-Zionist and anti-Army thrown at me to when in fact I am neither .
    I reread what you posted about Meretz voters and I get it now , hard to accept but true , I and my kibbutz voted meretz for years all the while our children were somewhere in the West Bank .

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  31. ” I strongly oppose attacks on soldiers. I strongly oppose “price tag” attacks on Palestinians or their property. Those who do these things should be arrested and jailed. ”
    Refreshing Ben Israel but good to hear never the less .
    BTW I dont think ” Jews who come from America are all fanatics ” there are many Centre/Left wing Americans who live here , its those like Baruch Marzel and Itamar Ben-Gvir and Baruch Goldstein and their friends in Hevron and Tapuach and other Kach strongholds I was referring to .

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  33. ” Giving the occupation a liberal face and casting off those ‘crazy settlers’ does not wash away responsibility. ”

    Agreed .

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