The Israeli website NRG says the J14 movement is considering to call on all tent camps to dismantle after the Saturday mass demonstrations; and could J14 and M15 jump over the pond?
1. NRG is reporting [HEB] today that J14 leaders are contemplating the dismantling of tents across the country and moving on to the next phase of their struggle.
Comparisons to Madrid and the M15 (May 15th) movement have been made for some time now. The Spanish “Indignados” also reached a conclusion that sitting in the squares had a certain life span to it, and eventually picked up their bags and left.
If this indeed happens, it will be a good decision by the J14 leaders. The tents have run their course, and if the Saturday demonstration is big (I’m taking the whole family this time), it’ll be great to “go out with a bang” – but keep fighting through other venues.
2. Will Wall St. become the next Rothschild boulevard? The web is now full of calls from a group called “Adbusters” that is planning on “occupying” Wall St. with tents on September 17th. “Occupying”? “Tents”? A bit too much Israeli influence, to my liking. But hey… If this global movement actually does reach New York, and if the numbers are big – this could be huge.
I don’t think it would be too far fetched to say that these activists were not only inspired by Madrid, but also by us here in the Holy Land (oh, and guess what they’re demanding. Yup… “social justice”).
3. I wonder what leftists would have said about the J14 movement not discussing the occupation, if the slogan of the movement was different.
Let’s say it wasn’t “social justice”. Let’s say the leaders came up with something different – and even more appropriate – like, “More socialism, less capitalism!”. Would they have still been bothered that the occupation wasn’t mentioned? Is this all because of one word? “Justice?”
I’ll say it again and I’ll say it a million times: This is about “capitalism gone wild”. It’s about a global system, rooted in Wall St., that has turned all of us into “unconnected”.
It’s unfortunate that Israelis can’t fight against the occupation and against the financial system simultaneously. But they can’t. They don’t mix security and economy. They just don’t. And in my opinion, they don’t have to. And whoever doesn’t get that – doesn’t get Israelis.
4. In fact, I think the J14 leaders, considering the young whipper snappers that they are, have made very few mistakes. Yet one of them, for me, is the failure to recognize how J14 is actually part of a world movement, stretching from Madrid, all across Europe – and maybe, just maybe, across the pond (finally).
The Israeli media, particularly the financial papers, have just now started to deal with this issue in depth. And rightfully so. It’s no coincidence that all this is happening three years after the 2008 crash, as the EU seems to be on the verge of collapse and just as the double dip recession arrows start to point down on the New York Stock Exchange.
I hope J14 make this connection soon, and realizes that cooperation with other movements can not only make Israel a better place – they can be part of something bigger that, as cliche as this may sound, could change the world.
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John
“It’s unfortunate that Israelis can’t fight against the occupation and against the financial system simultaneously. But they can’t. They don’t mix security and economy. They just don’t. And in my opinion, they don’t have to. And whoever doesn’t get that – doesn’t get Israelis.”
I totally disagree with this. These things DO go together, in Israel as in the United States. Efforts to separate them are mostly in good faith – mostly a result of trying not to alienate people from the movement. But it’s completely delusional to say that they are totally separate issues – the government gets one pot of money, and how they divide it is what we’re talking about. I understand that Israelis WANT these to be separate issues, but they are closely linked, like it or not. Not wanting to recognize that, which is the case of most Israelis, is quite different than the issues actually being different or unrelated. That’s not so much a question of “understanding Israelis” as the author put it, but a question of Israelis’ ability to understand reality.
Woody Berch
I disagree too Ami. It’s not that “Israelis don’t do this” (anti-occupation and anti-capitalism) it’s that the status quo relations exist such that economics is not linked to the occupation explicitly in the public dialogue. People’s consciousness is such that they are unable to conceive of it AT PRESENT. That doesn’t mean that the movement shouldn’t aspire to make those links and start to make those links. Perhaps it’s true in the abstract that making it front and center will hurt the movement AT PRESNET – but that’s not because of Israelis, it’s because the movement is not confronting the state at this point. That is, no one has had to risk anything, with other people, and overcome odds with those other (not necessarily Jewish, not necessarily Zionist) people. When a risk is taken on a large scale – we will see divides break down, like Christians serving security for praying Muslims in Egypt. At that point solidarity over shared goals against a shared enemy (this time the rich/the state, versus “ARABS”) will take hold and the connection is possible. Utilizing the “those people don’t understand Israelis” is just alienating and a bit chauvinistic.
Ami Kaufman
@Woody & John – like I said, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of Israelis.
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And as for America, you wouldn’t see me demonstrating for Medicare at a demo against the war in Iraq. The fact that our taxes pay both has nothing to do with it. Economy vs. security. It’s OK to separate. It’s fine.
Ohad
Ami
I am an Israeli and I 100% with both the comments above me. I am also a Zionists and not radical left or post Zionists or anti. the occupation and more specifically the brutal violent murderess occupation is the root of all evil in Israel period
James Marks
@ Ami – like John said, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of reality.
Ami Kaufman
@James, Ohad – actually, I’m well connected to reality. But thanks for your comments.
Ohad
Ami I never attacked you or said differently, I just do not get how you can talk about social justice in Ashdod and not about the apartheid system in Hebron? if the same gov is responsible for both? Israel was a peoples country , we owned it , now it owns us , our lives our children’s lives . in our name they oppress the poor in our name they oppress the occupied. that’s all. its not about security Bc the occupation has nothing to do with security. it is about oppression
Ami Kaufman
@Ohad – don’t get me wrong. I also believe the occupation is evil. In fact, if you don’t know that about me, then you’re obviously new to the site and don’t know my writings.
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But in the case of J14, I’m more than fine with the separation. Here’s a rant I wrote about it not long ago: http://972mag.com/j14-no-need-to-bring-up-the-occupation-it%E2%80%99s-the-capitalism-stupid/
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For me it’s not about social justice. It’s about money. And I have no problem talking about money, and not about the occupation. Just like the Arab citizens of Israel talk about the system, and rarely – if at all – raise the occupation.
Ohad
I am not new to this site but I do try to avoid it most of the time as I am an Israeli and a proud one. I am very much against the far left rant that usually we hear here, singling out Israel by people that would like to see a one state or no state or two Palestine and no Israel. this magazine may time is offensive some times even discriminating Israelis.
I can see how people trying to avoid the subject of the occupation but this is the one and only subject that will make or brake us. there will not be an Israel if the occupation will continue , and as I see it there would not be war and oppression without corrupted leaders that for years keeping us and the Palestinians in fear
Ami Kaufman
@Ohad – Israeli and proud? That makes the two of us. And I’m proud of this movement. It makes me more proud to be an Israeli than I’ve ever been.
Ohad
me too !! no doubt, but the wrongs of the occupation will always put a shadow on anything we do here
Tzila
I’m a new reader.Separate economy fron politics and from national and international issues is a falacy.You may call that a leftist song and of course is leftist because you have rightists zionist occupational governments that do exactly what you want to be changed.On the other hand I salute the Israelis who reacted in the way they did in J14 and etc,because after a very very long sleep they realised that they got to be together in order to ask for an economic change.
In respect to the occupation , Israelis will realised that they are also victims of a very well organised militaristic structure with very closed bounds with the type of economy that they are protesting against.The occupation with all the desinformation around it became a very complexe probleme and the begining of the resolution and implication of the Israelis it’s a matter of time.
Borg
Perhaps the tents are coming down because their fabric will dissolve in the coming rains. Big bad business has won again with disposable tents
Klil
“If this indeed happens, it will be a good decision by the J14 leaders. The tents have run their course, and if the Saturday demonstration is big (I’m taking the whole family this time), it’ll be great to “go out with a bang” – but keep fighting through other venues.”
Well, it may have run its course for the media attention seekers in Rothschild, but it sure as hell didn’t for people who went to the tents because they really have nowhere to live, rather than nowhere to live in their favorite Bohemian bubble. I hope the other tents survive and even flourish when the well-networked and attention-hungry are gone.
I’m sorry for being blunt, but really this reads like the most self-congratulatory leftist careerist nonsense, from people to whom living in tents is only a publicity stunt.
Ami Kaufman
@Klil – sorry for being too blunt, but I was thinking the exact same thing about your crappy, patronizing comment.
Klil
@Ami: Feeling patronized? Good. Now try and imagine how much more patronized people in the tents in Levinsky, Jaffa, Lod, Hadar Hacarmel, etc, feel as a response to this declaration. As I said, I hope they will stick to their guns in spite of it.
Ami Kaufman
Jesus Christ Klil, wake and read some of my posts on J14, as if I ever showed any disrespect for anything or anyone in this movement. Get off your high horse, you might fall hard dude. And stop preaching me before I ban you from my channel – I’ve done it before to people who get me so totally wrong like you.
Klil
It saddens me that you are unable to defend your views without taking criticism personally. I am criticizing the views of the J14 “leaders”, and your support of them. The best way to avoid having your views attacked is not expressing them. Otherwise, you are, of course, free to do what you wish with your channel. I have other venues of expression, after all. It’s a big internet out there.
Ami Kaufman
@Klil – it saddens me that you equate calling my piece “nonsense” to “criticism”. That is not “criticism”, nor “constructive criticism” of any sort. It’s a cheap shot below the belt. It’s a personal attack. So yeah, feel free to go elsewhere – you’re right, it’s a big internet out there. If you can’t take the heat on my channel, I’m happy if you feel comfortable elsewhere.
Shoded Yam
The idea that you can seperate these demands for “social justice”, “revolution” or what have you, from the occupation is absurd. Where d’ya think the funding is gonna come from in order to finance the subsidized housing, free education, chicken-in-every-pot agenda? What? You think their gonna soak the Ofer Family, Shari Arison and the Wertheimers? Think again. Shari Arison will be back in Miami so fast, it’ll make your head spin. The Ofer’s will pick up their marbles and move to an off-shore island populated by white-cannibals before they shed one shekel for Yair and Shulamit. And forget about defense. Barak has made it abundantly clear what you can do with that notion. Why do you think Baruch Marzel and Yesha are wetting themselves? They’re just waiting for you to come to the same conclusion they’ve already arrived at.
Ami Kaufman
@Shoded – I disagree. It’s all about policy. Because, if there wasn’t an occupation, they’d still use neo-liberal economic decision making to starve the middle class. It’s about the pie is divided.
Zahav
It makes sense, at least according to Hobbes, that Israelis (and everyone else) would demonstrate in support of their own economic interests before protesting in support of social issues or on issues like the Isr/Pal conflict. http://blogzahav.blogspot.com/2011/07/its-ecomomy-stupid-or-what-i-learned-in.html
Klil
@Ami: for the sake of accuracy, I was very specific about what I was referring to. I.e. your first point about the “leaders” declaring the tent protest to be over. Speaking of which, according to http://twitter.com/#!/J14ENG:
“RT @Edge2_0: People at Rothschild encampment ask to clarify that #j14 will go on. No tent is being taken down.”
Are you going to apologize for inadvertently helping propagate misinformation about them?
Do you still stand by your view that the tents should be taken down? Will you be presenting this argument to the #j14 “leaders”?
Ami Kaufman
@Klil – why do I have to apologize? What am I, Turkey? Israel? Who the the hell do you think you are? Will you apologize for calling my piece nonsense? Yeah, I noticed how you avoided that topic in last comment. Not too comfortable about that I guess, so best to avoid and not look like a schmuk.
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And of course I stand by every word I write.
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Also, I don’t spread misinformation. That report was from NRG, which I stated very clearly (reading comprehension problems? forgot your glasses maybe?) – and I’m sure as hell not going to change my opinion because you published somebody’s tweet. Get a life.
Shoded Yam
@Ami,
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I wanted to respond, the system will not accept it. In any event, go to the demonstration and as Hunter Thompson would’ve said; “stomp the terra”. Who knows how many oppurtunities you’ll have to do that again?
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SY
Laura
Actually, tons of Americans make the connection between militarism abroad and austerity at home, especially now that the economy’s imploded and yet there still seems to be plenty of money for the Pentagon budget. It’s pretty blindingly obvious – if 50% of our tax dollars go to war, they can’t go to any of the other things we desperately need them for. “Money for jobs and education, not for war and occupation” has been one of the most popular slogans on every one of the (many, many) antiwar protest I’ve been to since 2001.
Fadi Assaf
Ami — Suggestion: Disable comments.
Ami Kaufman
@Laura – that’s a slogan I would welcome. But I’m saying that that slogan is basically saying “i’m not willing to pay for war”. It’s not saying “I care about Iraqis and Afghans and their rights”. It’s economical. It’s priorities. Same thing here. Israelis won’t say they care about Palestinians rights. But they might say “I’m tired of paying so much for the occupation, when I don’t get that much out of it”.
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@Fadi – nope.