Comments on: Report by British jurists reminds of the horrors of Israeli child detention

By: AYLA

AYLA — Sun, 01 Jul 2012 06:12:30 +0000

@Engelbert, I agree with @Alan, who, from what little I’ve read of him, seems to be quite thoughtful. To call him a hasbarist is ridiculous. Your views are extreme and hateful, and to respond to hate with more hate is making the world a worse place, not a more just one. You also make the job of leftists like myself much harder, because you are what the pro-Israel voice is afraid of. And I don’t blame them. I will explain one thing: of course internationals can have a voice here. What I said was that the i/p conflict attracts some of the craziest of the crazies. And it does. Especially online.
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@Laurent–I do understand that people lost a lot of hope and faith back when Rabin was shot and during the second intifada and in the aftermath of the Gaza withdrawal. While I certainly don’t have the step-by-step answers, immoral occupation (and I’m not speaking of where we put borders, but of one people’s control over another’s), is simply not an acceptable way to sustain the state of Israel as a Jewish State. Mostly, Laurent, re-read this article. Now try to respond with something other than a blanket, boring, ignorant defense of Israel that you could post blindly without even reading the post. If you read this post and don’t take it in, you are choosing blind support as atrocities are being committed in your name.

By: RichardL

RichardL — Sat, 30 Jun 2012 22:54:58 +0000

Going back to the article, and the report. Britain’s Foreign and Commonwealth Office must already have been well aware of this decades-long practice that has been going on in Palestine. Now all of a sudden the FCO intends to “challenge Israel”. Well I’m sorry folks but it ain’t going to happen. William Hague is not going to say boo to anybody in Israel and this noble report will merely go the way of similar reports by AI, HRW, DCI, B’Tselem, Save the Children, UNCRC and all the rest. Israel is not going to allow it to be a nuisance. End of story.

By: Engelbert Luitsz

Engelbert Luitsz — Sat, 30 Jun 2012 22:01:51 +0000

Wow, Alan, are being payed for writing this crap?

By: Alan

Alan — Sat, 30 Jun 2012 21:58:38 +0000

I have read Atzmon; if you don’t believe he’s anti-Semitic, then you yourself are complicit in anti-Semitism. Anyway, it’s not just me, Englebert; your comments have been banned because of their anti-Semitic content on other 972 channels.

By: Engelbert Luitsz

Engelbert Luitsz — Sat, 30 Jun 2012 21:48:18 +0000

Alan, you can call Apple anti-semitic and then accuse anyone using an iphone of being anti-semitic. You clearly don’t know what it means. It’s a propaganda term to stop any criticism.
You never read Atzmon and are just relaying on things you read about him.
As someone said: an anti-semite used to be someone who hates Jews, now it’s someone the Jews hate.
If you can find racism in what I said I will respond, but repeating endlessly the same thing in the hope that people will finally start to believe it, was invented by Joseph Goebels. Try to think for yourself.

By: Alan

Alan — Sat, 30 Jun 2012 21:37:31 +0000

Englebert– I don’t care if you are weeded or banned, but you have zero moral credibility if you endorse the writing of anti-Semites like Gilad Atzmon. You have no business calling anyone racist when you make common cause with anti-Semites.

By: Engelbert Luitsz

Engelbert Luitsz — Sat, 30 Jun 2012 20:26:51 +0000

Ayla, I understand. It’s “complicated”, it’s a “conflict”. Where did I hear this before?
Talking about weeding out people or calling them termites is a clear sign of a certain mindset, not of a rational analysis. Since Israel pretends to be a democracy maybe we should vote on who should be banned here. It’s convenient for members of the occupation to set the rules, but we never asked Botha for permission to attack Apartheid, so stop being so condescening, please.

By: Laurent Szyster

Laurent Szyster — Sat, 30 Jun 2012 19:18:56 +0000

@Ayla,

What you advocate in a policy of unilateral withdrawal, the kind of which failed in Gaza.

Peace is not a moral ideal to believe in. It is a concrete state of non belligerence, the practical acception by both parties that they can’t have it all.

By: AYLA

AYLA — Sat, 30 Jun 2012 19:02:53 +0000

@Engelbert–while I don’t blame you for being offended, weeding someone off a virtual conversation is quite different from evacuating a human being from a land. But okay: I’ll stick to this verb: Banning.
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@Laurent–the notion that the conflict needs to be “solved” before Israel stops the occupation is terribly offensive and, frankly, sick if you know anything about the effects of the occupation on Palestinians. The conflict will never, I repeat: never, be “solved”. We, Israel, cannot have immoral policy as a result of the unsolved conflict, and in more practical terms, we cannot consider our immoral policy to be entirely defensive. At this point, as far as I’m concerned, it’s one big chicken and egg cycle. Many, on all sides, will find that offensive, as most people on all sides believe they have the moral high ground. I am advocating for an Israel I can believe in, that is worth defending after the occupation ends.

By: Laurent Szyster

Laurent Szyster — Sat, 30 Jun 2012 18:28:09 +0000

@Youri, @Ayla, @Vicky,

As long as the conflict is not resolved, the West Bank will remain under military occupation.

To have civil law there negociations must resume and lead to a lasting peace.

Given the numerous past occasions squandered by the moderate palestinian leadership and the lasting popularity of the rejectionnist parties, don’t hold your breath.

Now, my point was not to “argue in support of the IDF’s behaviour” when it is obviously wrong or to say that Palestinian kids are “are uniquely wicked, uniquely villainous, uniquely hateful”.

My point is that the use of language like “the horrors of Israeli child detention” is innappropriate because what Youri describes is slightly worse that the treatement unruly arab youth get from the police in France.

Also, prophetic and judgemental statements such as “One day they’ll have to explain this” are in my opinion too close to pandering to the antisemitic prejudices of this blog audience.