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	<title>Comments on: Racial profiling is just racism: A response to Goldberg</title>
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	<link>http://972mag.com/racial-profiling-is-just-racism-a-response-to-goldberg/38604/</link>
	<description>Independent commentary and news from Israel &#38; Palestine</description>
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		<title>By: Piotr Berman</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/racial-profiling-is-just-racism-a-response-to-goldberg/38604/comment-page-1/#comment-50433</link>
		<dc:creator>Piotr Berman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2012 05:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=38604#comment-50433</guid>
		<description>&quot;No matter how embarrassing or unpleasant the procedure is, it’s not intended to humiliate, any more than those obnoxious TSA procedures are.&quot;

I beg to disagree.  One can check what are the &quot;obnoxious TSA procedures&quot;.  They may be idiotic at times, but as a rule, they are (a) impartial (b) fast (c) TSA actually responds with some humility and tries to correct most idiotic behavior.

TSA handles at least 50 times more passengers than Israeli security, and they have to do it within some payroll limit and legal limits.  Nobody gives a damn if travelers are nice or naughty, only if they have weapons or explosives.  Idiocies come from some controversial determinations about potential weapons and explosives.  And there exists infamous &quot;no fly list&quot;.

Slightly amusing is variable status of smoking aids.  Smokers travels with some amount of either sulphur (matches) or inflammable liquids (lighters) and usually one of the two, but rarely both, are verboten.  Once I thought that lighters are not allowed so I got a 10-pack of matchboxes and to get to the plane to USA I got through two control screens and matchboxes were duly confiscated at each.  I was down to three.

Folks with metal parts in their bodies suffer anti-metal prejudice etc.  Liquid rules are probably cretinous, but objective.  Very importantly, those indignities in the name of security are heaped upon citizens who do not have cult of inerrant benevolent state, like Israelis do, so there is some healthy feedback.

Even though 1% of any population is deranged, and one in million in any population is dangerous, billions are screened in North America and Europe pretty fast and effectively.

The extra time and humiliations meted by Israeli security are product of paranoid bureaucracy and paranoid citizenry that &quot;feels safer&quot; as the result.  Especially if indignities are heaped on &quot;bad people&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;No matter how embarrassing or unpleasant the procedure is, it’s not intended to humiliate, any more than those obnoxious TSA procedures are.&#8221;</p>
<p>I beg to disagree.  One can check what are the &#8220;obnoxious TSA procedures&#8221;.  They may be idiotic at times, but as a rule, they are (a) impartial (b) fast (c) TSA actually responds with some humility and tries to correct most idiotic behavior.</p>
<p>TSA handles at least 50 times more passengers than Israeli security, and they have to do it within some payroll limit and legal limits.  Nobody gives a damn if travelers are nice or naughty, only if they have weapons or explosives.  Idiocies come from some controversial determinations about potential weapons and explosives.  And there exists infamous &#8220;no fly list&#8221;.</p>
<p>Slightly amusing is variable status of smoking aids.  Smokers travels with some amount of either sulphur (matches) or inflammable liquids (lighters) and usually one of the two, but rarely both, are verboten.  Once I thought that lighters are not allowed so I got a 10-pack of matchboxes and to get to the plane to USA I got through two control screens and matchboxes were duly confiscated at each.  I was down to three.</p>
<p>Folks with metal parts in their bodies suffer anti-metal prejudice etc.  Liquid rules are probably cretinous, but objective.  Very importantly, those indignities in the name of security are heaped upon citizens who do not have cult of inerrant benevolent state, like Israelis do, so there is some healthy feedback.</p>
<p>Even though 1% of any population is deranged, and one in million in any population is dangerous, billions are screened in North America and Europe pretty fast and effectively.</p>
<p>The extra time and humiliations meted by Israeli security are product of paranoid bureaucracy and paranoid citizenry that &#8220;feels safer&#8221; as the result.  Especially if indignities are heaped on &#8220;bad people&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Canadian</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/racial-profiling-is-just-racism-a-response-to-goldberg/38604/comment-page-1/#comment-50223</link>
		<dc:creator>Canadian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2012 09:57:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=38604#comment-50223</guid>
		<description>I agree with most of your points except one, you said: &quot;Nobody seriously claims that the security check should be canceled – only that all passengers should go through the same procedure, uncomfortable as it may be.&quot;

What you are saying here is that if one specific group is victim of gratuitously abusive bureaucratic procedures than everyone else should be made equally victim.
There is no need for the majority of these procedures, less than 20 years ago, you could travel anywhere across North America without any hassle or wait; you get to the airport 15 minutes before takeoff, and just go, without sacrificing hours of your life waiting and being harassed.
Think about this:  If some crazy lunatic wants to commit suicide, and is determined, nothing will stop him; you can have all the procedures in the world, what if the lunatic blows himself up in the lineup? or in the city bus? or at the supermarket? or at the zoo, etc...
You cannot ruin everyones life just to try and stop potential isolated incidents made by lunatics that couldn&#039;t be stopped anyways.

So instead of making everyone a victim, why don&#039;t we just bring back HUMANITY instead.  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with most of your points except one, you said: &#8220;Nobody seriously claims that the security check should be canceled – only that all passengers should go through the same procedure, uncomfortable as it may be.&#8221;</p>
<p>What you are saying here is that if one specific group is victim of gratuitously abusive bureaucratic procedures than everyone else should be made equally victim.<br />
There is no need for the majority of these procedures, less than 20 years ago, you could travel anywhere across North America without any hassle or wait; you get to the airport 15 minutes before takeoff, and just go, without sacrificing hours of your life waiting and being harassed.<br />
Think about this:  If some crazy lunatic wants to commit suicide, and is determined, nothing will stop him; you can have all the procedures in the world, what if the lunatic blows himself up in the lineup? or in the city bus? or at the supermarket? or at the zoo, etc&#8230;<br />
You cannot ruin everyones life just to try and stop potential isolated incidents made by lunatics that couldn&#8217;t be stopped anyways.</p>
<p>So instead of making everyone a victim, why don&#8217;t we just bring back HUMANITY instead.  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Arnon Schwanzinger</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/racial-profiling-is-just-racism-a-response-to-goldberg/38604/comment-page-1/#comment-50003</link>
		<dc:creator>Arnon Schwanzinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2012 16:06:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=38604#comment-50003</guid>
		<description>@Aaron TFT:
&quot;Unlike other arguments, it doesn’t deny the common-sense fact that ethnicity is one useful feature in profiling.&quot;
Ethnicity is a useful feature in ethnic profiling?
Isn&#039;t that kind of tautological?

And &quot;common-sense&quot; is such a loose, and more importantly non-empiric, non-rational word. Whose common-sense exactly?

I don&#039;t see how taking a family with children into a separate room for hours is good profiling. That doesn&#039;t really compute with my own personal common sense.
--
&quot;I’m still against it, though. I believe in relating to Arabs as adults.&quot;
Wouldn&#039;t relating to ANYONE as an adult entail that you assume they have the common-sense and responsibility not to blow up their means of transportation?

&quot;That means assuming that they can understand the obvious fact that ethnic profiling is rationally based and is not intended as a racist insult&quot;

Once again, obvious to whom? To Aaron the Jew, or Mahmud the profiled?
&quot;Common-sense&quot; is very much the opposite of &quot;rationally based&quot;.
And whether of not something is INTENDED as an insult has little to do with how humiliating it is. Intent is simply not a factor (people can rationalize anything to themselves) - results are. And the result is systematic humiliation of people of all ages based on their ethnicity. ie. based on something they have absolutely no control over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Aaron TFT:<br />
&#8220;Unlike other arguments, it doesn’t deny the common-sense fact that ethnicity is one useful feature in profiling.&#8221;<br />
Ethnicity is a useful feature in ethnic profiling?<br />
Isn&#8217;t that kind of tautological?</p>
<p>And &#8220;common-sense&#8221; is such a loose, and more importantly non-empiric, non-rational word. Whose common-sense exactly?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see how taking a family with children into a separate room for hours is good profiling. That doesn&#8217;t really compute with my own personal common sense.<br />
&#8211;<br />
&#8220;I’m still against it, though. I believe in relating to Arabs as adults.&#8221;<br />
Wouldn&#8217;t relating to ANYONE as an adult entail that you assume they have the common-sense and responsibility not to blow up their means of transportation?</p>
<p>&#8220;That means assuming that they can understand the obvious fact that ethnic profiling is rationally based and is not intended as a racist insult&#8221;</p>
<p>Once again, obvious to whom? To Aaron the Jew, or Mahmud the profiled?<br />
&#8220;Common-sense&#8221; is very much the opposite of &#8220;rationally based&#8221;.<br />
And whether of not something is INTENDED as an insult has little to do with how humiliating it is. Intent is simply not a factor (people can rationalize anything to themselves) &#8211; results are. And the result is systematic humiliation of people of all ages based on their ethnicity. ie. based on something they have absolutely no control over.</p>
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		<title>By: Helge</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/racial-profiling-is-just-racism-a-response-to-goldberg/38604/comment-page-1/#comment-49979</link>
		<dc:creator>Helge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2012 14:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=38604#comment-49979</guid>
		<description>last week - tuesday - I was the first time nearly unchecked when leaving. Single traveller, european. 
Every other time i had at least a medium interest check including camera eq. unpacking, laptop startup and taking out batterie and such.  
This time nothing... after xrayin&#039; my bag (not my backpack), I asked where to stop by next and got reply &quot;go to check in&quot;... 

I never before had 45 minutes free time til boarding time on Ben Gurion. Led to buying stupid souvenirs.

On all the other visits I had in addition to my usual luggage my bike with me - but THIS was never an interest in the security checks. May be they&#039;ve checked detailed after I left it at the elevator where u leave the large stuff. But really ... even the worse checking was always in a as friendly as possible way, I&#039;d call it - &quot;professional&quot;. 

Had much worse experiences with german security sometimes that didn&#039;t leave the impression of &quot;professionality&quot; at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>last week &#8211; tuesday &#8211; I was the first time nearly unchecked when leaving. Single traveller, european.<br />
Every other time i had at least a medium interest check including camera eq. unpacking, laptop startup and taking out batterie and such.<br />
This time nothing&#8230; after xrayin&#8217; my bag (not my backpack), I asked where to stop by next and got reply &#8220;go to check in&#8221;&#8230; </p>
<p>I never before had 45 minutes free time til boarding time on Ben Gurion. Led to buying stupid souvenirs.</p>
<p>On all the other visits I had in addition to my usual luggage my bike with me &#8211; but THIS was never an interest in the security checks. May be they&#8217;ve checked detailed after I left it at the elevator where u leave the large stuff. But really &#8230; even the worse checking was always in a as friendly as possible way, I&#8217;d call it &#8211; &#8220;professional&#8221;. </p>
<p>Had much worse experiences with german security sometimes that didn&#8217;t leave the impression of &#8220;professionality&#8221; at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Dhalgren</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/racial-profiling-is-just-racism-a-response-to-goldberg/38604/comment-page-1/#comment-49899</link>
		<dc:creator>Dhalgren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2012 09:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=38604#comment-49899</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a good article to read on airport security in general, comparing Israeli security to the rest of the world:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1336571/Terrorism-Can-really-stop-bomber-asking-Are-terrorist.html
.
One interesting quote:
&quot;In America, anger over body scanners and intimate, genital searches for those who decline to pass through them has led to calls for ethnic profiling. But the automated Israeli method isn&#039;t profiling: it homes in on individuals, not ethnic or religious groups.&quot;
.
It seems that in touting the superiority of Israeli airport security (which I think is superior to our insane process in the US), the intimidation of Arabs at Ben-Gurion is revealed for being exactly that: intimidation. Every indication is given that Israeli profiling is sophisticated enough to distinguish between individuals based on far more than mere ethnicity. There is no need for experiences like those described here. These are obvious intimidation practices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a good article to read on airport security in general, comparing Israeli security to the rest of the world:<br />
<a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1336571/Terrorism-Can-really-stop-bomber-asking-Are-terrorist.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1336571/Terrorism-Can-really-stop-bomber-asking-Are-terrorist.html</a><br />
.<br />
One interesting quote:<br />
&#8220;In America, anger over body scanners and intimate, genital searches for those who decline to pass through them has led to calls for ethnic profiling. But the automated Israeli method isn&#8217;t profiling: it homes in on individuals, not ethnic or religious groups.&#8221;<br />
.<br />
It seems that in touting the superiority of Israeli airport security (which I think is superior to our insane process in the US), the intimidation of Arabs at Ben-Gurion is revealed for being exactly that: intimidation. Every indication is given that Israeli profiling is sophisticated enough to distinguish between individuals based on far more than mere ethnicity. There is no need for experiences like those described here. These are obvious intimidation practices.</p>
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		<title>By: Sharon Benheim</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/racial-profiling-is-just-racism-a-response-to-goldberg/38604/comment-page-1/#comment-49852</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharon Benheim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2012 05:53:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=38604#comment-49852</guid>
		<description>The way the security checks are handled at Ben Gurion is a horrid truth. I do not think any of us Jewish or Arab, think the profiling is the problem - we expect that. But the attitudes and the irrational results!

Imagine my horror when a group of 25 of us were traveling as part of a peacebuilding program, only to have the Arab participants (from Israel, Palestine and Jordan) separated out. I wasn&#039;t (though the Jewish Israeli coordinator of the group) allowed to intervene or help - the most I could do is refuse to leave the area and await my fellow passengers. The epitome - especially for all you fellow commenters who talk about LOGIC - was this: after being searched and checked, one of the Arab women with me was told she could not take her small back pack on board - but would have to check it. She had in this small bag a wallet, a passport folder with her tickets, a music device, a bottle of water, and a book. Never mind that I was allowed a rolling suitcase with 300 items in it... She was told to pick just 2 items and check the rest. Then, I went ballistic. If any of the items was safe for her to take, than all of them were safe. This &quot;offer&quot; was pure spite and completely illogical and unnecessary. The two of us spent the next few hours - having be driven in a mad dash to the plane just before the doors were closed - in each other&#039;s arms crying from sheer frustration - and humiliation. In her case, she was humiliated by the treatment she received. In my case, I was humiliated by the illogical, unreasonable, and nasty behaviour of my country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way the security checks are handled at Ben Gurion is a horrid truth. I do not think any of us Jewish or Arab, think the profiling is the problem &#8211; we expect that. But the attitudes and the irrational results!</p>
<p>Imagine my horror when a group of 25 of us were traveling as part of a peacebuilding program, only to have the Arab participants (from Israel, Palestine and Jordan) separated out. I wasn&#8217;t (though the Jewish Israeli coordinator of the group) allowed to intervene or help &#8211; the most I could do is refuse to leave the area and await my fellow passengers. The epitome &#8211; especially for all you fellow commenters who talk about LOGIC &#8211; was this: after being searched and checked, one of the Arab women with me was told she could not take her small back pack on board &#8211; but would have to check it. She had in this small bag a wallet, a passport folder with her tickets, a music device, a bottle of water, and a book. Never mind that I was allowed a rolling suitcase with 300 items in it&#8230; She was told to pick just 2 items and check the rest. Then, I went ballistic. If any of the items was safe for her to take, than all of them were safe. This &#8220;offer&#8221; was pure spite and completely illogical and unnecessary. The two of us spent the next few hours &#8211; having be driven in a mad dash to the plane just before the doors were closed &#8211; in each other&#8217;s arms crying from sheer frustration &#8211; and humiliation. In her case, she was humiliated by the treatment she received. In my case, I was humiliated by the illogical, unreasonable, and nasty behaviour of my country.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Rose</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/racial-profiling-is-just-racism-a-response-to-goldberg/38604/comment-page-1/#comment-49767</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Rose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Mar 2012 22:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=38604#comment-49767</guid>
		<description>The last time I went through Ben Gurion Airport I was held up for an hour or so because I had a Beirut airport stamp in passport. Fair enough I suppose. The line of questioning amused me. &quot;You&#039;re a Jew?&quot; Yes. &quot;So why did you want to to an Arab country?&quot; To be fair I wouldn&#039;t have got in Lebanon with an Israeli stamp in my passport. 

 When I explained I would be staying with a relative in Tel Aviv the young man said I could go. 

But what I did find disturbing was the old man from Jerusalem I was sitting next to. He had been waiting an hour before I got there. A Jerusalem resident for his entire life he was scared - yes scared - that he might not be allowed back into the country. He had left to visit family abroad. He had been interviewed once already and was waiting for the second interview. He said it was the first time he had left Jerusalem and he wouldn&#039;t be doing it again. The hard wooden bench was far from comfortable. It felt and looked like low level harassment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The last time I went through Ben Gurion Airport I was held up for an hour or so because I had a Beirut airport stamp in passport. Fair enough I suppose. The line of questioning amused me. &#8220;You&#8217;re a Jew?&#8221; Yes. &#8220;So why did you want to to an Arab country?&#8221; To be fair I wouldn&#8217;t have got in Lebanon with an Israeli stamp in my passport. </p>
<p> When I explained I would be staying with a relative in Tel Aviv the young man said I could go. </p>
<p>But what I did find disturbing was the old man from Jerusalem I was sitting next to. He had been waiting an hour before I got there. A Jerusalem resident for his entire life he was scared &#8211; yes scared &#8211; that he might not be allowed back into the country. He had left to visit family abroad. He had been interviewed once already and was waiting for the second interview. He said it was the first time he had left Jerusalem and he wouldn&#8217;t be doing it again. The hard wooden bench was far from comfortable. It felt and looked like low level harassment.</p>
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		<title>By: Noam W</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/racial-profiling-is-just-racism-a-response-to-goldberg/38604/comment-page-1/#comment-49766</link>
		<dc:creator>Noam W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Mar 2012 22:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=38604#comment-49766</guid>
		<description>Good piece Noam. I would like to add one point.
.
Racial profiling, for the kind conducted at airports (as opposed to police officers picking off black youths in white neighborhoods) is done in the name of efficiency. 
.
The argument is that it would be too costly and inconvenient to check everybody and so they target only those &quot;most likely&quot; to cause problems.
.
But racial discrimination is so inimical to democracy, that any efficiency argument in its favor is apriori flawed. Preserving rights costs money - a judicial system costs money, health care costs money, elections cost a lot of money. 
Making part of our citizens not feel alienated, perceived as an enemy writ large, and demeaned also costs money. It does not matter at all whether there is a statistically better chance that Palestinian Israelis would attack an airplane. I do not suggest that they should not be checked, but if I and other Israelis have to stand in line longer and suffer the indignities of having our baggage rifled through as well. It is a small price to pay for, at least the semblance of, solidarity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good piece Noam. I would like to add one point.<br />
.<br />
Racial profiling, for the kind conducted at airports (as opposed to police officers picking off black youths in white neighborhoods) is done in the name of efficiency.<br />
.<br />
The argument is that it would be too costly and inconvenient to check everybody and so they target only those &#8220;most likely&#8221; to cause problems.<br />
.<br />
But racial discrimination is so inimical to democracy, that any efficiency argument in its favor is apriori flawed. Preserving rights costs money &#8211; a judicial system costs money, health care costs money, elections cost a lot of money.<br />
Making part of our citizens not feel alienated, perceived as an enemy writ large, and demeaned also costs money. It does not matter at all whether there is a statistically better chance that Palestinian Israelis would attack an airplane. I do not suggest that they should not be checked, but if I and other Israelis have to stand in line longer and suffer the indignities of having our baggage rifled through as well. It is a small price to pay for, at least the semblance of, solidarity.</p>
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		<title>By: Shlomo Krol</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/racial-profiling-is-just-racism-a-response-to-goldberg/38604/comment-page-1/#comment-49765</link>
		<dc:creator>Shlomo Krol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Mar 2012 22:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=38604#comment-49765</guid>
		<description>Agree. It&#039;s better to have inconvenience being questioined and monitored more thouroughly than to feel a &quot;privileged&quot; one and see how other &quot;underprivileged&quot; ones are treated in a different way than you are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree. It&#8217;s better to have inconvenience being questioined and monitored more thouroughly than to feel a &#8220;privileged&#8221; one and see how other &#8220;underprivileged&#8221; ones are treated in a different way than you are.</p>
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		<title>By: James North</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/racial-profiling-is-just-racism-a-response-to-goldberg/38604/comment-page-1/#comment-49763</link>
		<dc:creator>James North</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Mar 2012 22:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=38604#comment-49763</guid>
		<description>An excellent post by Noam.  Here&#039;s my question: why do they interrogate you much more vigorously when you are leaving Ben-Gurion than when you arrive?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An excellent post by Noam.  Here&#8217;s my question: why do they interrogate you much more vigorously when you are leaving Ben-Gurion than when you arrive?</p>
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