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	<title>Comments on: Person of the Year, 5771 &#8211; Mahmoud Abbas</title>
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	<link>http://972mag.com/person-of-the-year-5771-mahmoud-abbas/24224/</link>
	<description>Independent commentary and news from Israel &#38; Palestine</description>
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		<title>By: Bosko</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/person-of-the-year-5771-mahmoud-abbas/24224/comment-page-1/#comment-25550</link>
		<dc:creator>Bosko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2011 20:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=24224#comment-25550</guid>
		<description>Sounds like there is consensus between the majority of the opposing sides, at least on this blog, Abbas does not merit the title of &quot;Person of the Year&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like there is consensus between the majority of the opposing sides, at least on this blog, Abbas does not merit the title of &#8220;Person of the Year&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Omar Ibrahim</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/person-of-the-year-5771-mahmoud-abbas/24224/comment-page-1/#comment-25525</link>
		<dc:creator>Omar Ibrahim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2011 10:02:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=24224#comment-25525</guid>
		<description>Ben Israel
Wednesday,
September 28, 2011 
2:53 am

It is, of course, to be expected that nothing short of a man ready to give in to ALL Israeli demands, designs and ambitions will ever be deemed a satisfactory negotiating partner to you and to AIPAC/Obama!
Feckless, helpless, unprincipled, weak and irresolute as he is he, Abbas, seems to still have some blood and guts in him!
Understandably that is bound to displease you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben Israel<br />
Wednesday,<br />
September 28, 2011<br />
2:53 am</p>
<p>It is, of course, to be expected that nothing short of a man ready to give in to ALL Israeli demands, designs and ambitions will ever be deemed a satisfactory negotiating partner to you and to AIPAC/Obama!<br />
Feckless, helpless, unprincipled, weak and irresolute as he is he, Abbas, seems to still have some blood and guts in him!<br />
Understandably that is bound to displease you!</p>
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		<title>By: Omar Ibrahim</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/person-of-the-year-5771-mahmoud-abbas/24224/comment-page-1/#comment-25521</link>
		<dc:creator>Omar Ibrahim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2011 08:37:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=24224#comment-25521</guid>
		<description>Post &quot;Arab Spring&quot; Mahmoud Abbas NOW  is more DISQUALIFIED, totally unqualified and undeserving than ever, to be Man of the Year!
 NOT only that his whole &quot;tenure&quot; of the PA  was marked by a clear and unmitigated Israeli/USA triumph over the Palestinian cause, through Palestinian-Israeli security cooperation and coordination, BUT equally that he has absolutely nothing else  of SUBSTANCE to show for it.
 
Neither that he EVER deserved it: being the historical godfather of the &quot;political &quot;, ie through &quot;negotiations&quot; ,road to a settlement; an approach that has been irrevocably proven to be not only futile BUT also proved to be counterproductive and destructive of the Palestinian cause.

Abbas, through his decades long influence first in Fatah then at the PA proved to be weak, divisive, indecisive, unprincipled , a source of comfort for both the Israel and the USA and an overall detriment, a negative factor, to the Palestinian cause.

A mediocre , unprincipled and failed  &quot;leader&quot; by any standard; his choice as Man of the Year will be another Israeli/USA triumph over the Palestinian cause.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Post &#8220;Arab Spring&#8221; Mahmoud Abbas NOW  is more DISQUALIFIED, totally unqualified and undeserving than ever, to be Man of the Year!<br />
 NOT only that his whole &#8220;tenure&#8221; of the PA  was marked by a clear and unmitigated Israeli/USA triumph over the Palestinian cause, through Palestinian-Israeli security cooperation and coordination, BUT equally that he has absolutely nothing else  of SUBSTANCE to show for it.</p>
<p>Neither that he EVER deserved it: being the historical godfather of the &#8220;political &#8220;, ie through &#8220;negotiations&#8221; ,road to a settlement; an approach that has been irrevocably proven to be not only futile BUT also proved to be counterproductive and destructive of the Palestinian cause.</p>
<p>Abbas, through his decades long influence first in Fatah then at the PA proved to be weak, divisive, indecisive, unprincipled , a source of comfort for both the Israel and the USA and an overall detriment, a negative factor, to the Palestinian cause.</p>
<p>A mediocre , unprincipled and failed  &#8220;leader&#8221; by any standard; his choice as Man of the Year will be another Israeli/USA triumph over the Palestinian cause.</p>
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		<title>By: Bosko</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/person-of-the-year-5771-mahmoud-abbas/24224/comment-page-1/#comment-25504</link>
		<dc:creator>Bosko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2011 23:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=24224#comment-25504</guid>
		<description>Here is what Karl Marx wrote in the New York Herald Tribune in 1854, before modern Zionism was even thought of ...
.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1854/03/28.htm
.
&quot;the sedentary population of Jerusalem numbers about 15,500 souls, of whom 4,000 are Mussulmans and 8,000 Jews. The Mussulmans, forming about a fourth part of the whole, and consisting of Turks, Arabs and Moors, are, of course, the masters in every respect, as they are in no way affected with the weakness of their Government at Constantinople. Nothing equals the misery and the sufferings of the Jews at Jerusalem, inhabiting the most filthy quarter of the town, called hareth-el-yahoud, the quarter of dirt, between the Zion and the Moriah, where their synagogues are situated – the constant objects of Mussulman oppression&quot;
.
It shows three things: 
.
1) There was an ancient Jewish community in East Jerusalem.
2) As far back as 1854 the Jews were in the majority.
3) The Jews were oppressed by the Arab/Muslims
.
So far for the myths that the Jews are the ones who are the oppressors of Arabs. There is a history to be considered before we talk about the situation today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is what Karl Marx wrote in the New York Herald Tribune in 1854, before modern Zionism was even thought of &#8230;<br />
.<br />
<a href="http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1854/03/28.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1854/03/28.htm</a><br />
.<br />
&#8220;the sedentary population of Jerusalem numbers about 15,500 souls, of whom 4,000 are Mussulmans and 8,000 Jews. The Mussulmans, forming about a fourth part of the whole, and consisting of Turks, Arabs and Moors, are, of course, the masters in every respect, as they are in no way affected with the weakness of their Government at Constantinople. Nothing equals the misery and the sufferings of the Jews at Jerusalem, inhabiting the most filthy quarter of the town, called hareth-el-yahoud, the quarter of dirt, between the Zion and the Moriah, where their synagogues are situated – the constant objects of Mussulman oppression&#8221;<br />
.<br />
It shows three things:<br />
.<br />
1) There was an ancient Jewish community in East Jerusalem.<br />
2) As far back as 1854 the Jews were in the majority.<br />
3) The Jews were oppressed by the Arab/Muslims<br />
.<br />
So far for the myths that the Jews are the ones who are the oppressors of Arabs. There is a history to be considered before we talk about the situation today.</p>
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		<title>By: Bosko</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/person-of-the-year-5771-mahmoud-abbas/24224/comment-page-1/#comment-25499</link>
		<dc:creator>Bosko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2011 21:13:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=24224#comment-25499</guid>
		<description>Oh and one more thing. Israel will never give up all of East Jerusalem. There is just too much Jewish history tied up in East Jerusalem. Yes, history not just what is in the bible which of course you scoff at.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh and one more thing. Israel will never give up all of East Jerusalem. There is just too much Jewish history tied up in East Jerusalem. Yes, history not just what is in the bible which of course you scoff at.</p>
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		<title>By: Bosko</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/person-of-the-year-5771-mahmoud-abbas/24224/comment-page-1/#comment-25498</link>
		<dc:creator>Bosko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2011 21:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=24224#comment-25498</guid>
		<description>I won&#039;t even waste my time proving to you that the whole situation is not just a case of occupation, the Palestinian Arabs are hapeless victims who have not done anything wrong and that the Israelis are not just evil oppressors who usurped Arab lands and are occupiers. I won&#039;t bring up the number of times that Israel tried to resolve the impasse and all it got for it&#039;s efforts is rejectionism, more demands, Intifada and Durban. I won&#039;t bring all of that up because you would just pooh pooh it and call it Hasbara ...
.
I will say this though. The UN can vote anyway it likes. You left wingers can bad mouth Israel all you like. You can bring about the BDS, organise demonstrations. But it won&#039;t help. Israelis won&#039;t agree to commit national suicide. There will be NO right of return. I will repeat, there will be NO right of return, period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I won&#8217;t even waste my time proving to you that the whole situation is not just a case of occupation, the Palestinian Arabs are hapeless victims who have not done anything wrong and that the Israelis are not just evil oppressors who usurped Arab lands and are occupiers. I won&#8217;t bring up the number of times that Israel tried to resolve the impasse and all it got for it&#8217;s efforts is rejectionism, more demands, Intifada and Durban. I won&#8217;t bring all of that up because you would just pooh pooh it and call it Hasbara &#8230;<br />
.<br />
I will say this though. The UN can vote anyway it likes. You left wingers can bad mouth Israel all you like. You can bring about the BDS, organise demonstrations. But it won&#8217;t help. Israelis won&#8217;t agree to commit national suicide. There will be NO right of return. I will repeat, there will be NO right of return, period.</p>
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		<title>By: Taoist</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/person-of-the-year-5771-mahmoud-abbas/24224/comment-page-1/#comment-25480</link>
		<dc:creator>Taoist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2011 16:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=24224#comment-25480</guid>
		<description>&quot;To those who question what Abbas means when he demands the &#039;Right of Return&#039;...&quot;

At this point in time what Abbas said or Netanyahu said here and there, about this or that, is totally and absolutely irrelevant to the ongoing non-debate. 

The only true criteria is reality, not what you wish it would be good for Israel and Palestine, good for Palestine, or good for Israel only, which seems to be your favorite position. 

And historical reality finds Israel backed into a shameful corner as a modern &quot;state,&quot; one dedicated to preserve and perpetuate the oppression of a people whose land Israel claims as &quot;Biblically&quot; theirs, an argument recently backed by the alleged &quot;strategic depth,&quot; plus the ever-present &quot;special security needs&quot; (read keep the occupation going), and many other reasons with which the Israeli establishment, backed by the fundies and wackos on their wingnut side, attempts to continue stealing Palestinian homeland. 

The current debate in the UN would put Israel, the US, et al (a few other idiots) at the crosswinds of history, and would help more than any pro-Palestinian website (which are, in general, pretty bad), to show the occupation in its full nakedness. Israel has been pissing against the wind for long time, and is now just beginning to catch the counter-wind. 

The ongoing non-debate, therefore, has moved from who said whatever, to a level beyond the comprehension of most Israelis, living by force under an occupation of the mind (preeminently Lieberman&#039;s hasbaras), unaware Clio has turned her back on Israel. The Palestinian request for recognition as a state will test the limits of the international political establishment, forced by the traditional trans-Atlantic alliance to march in lock-step with the US. We will see how much pressure is the US able to apply on friends and foes at the UN, and we will witness those who bend under pressure, and those who resist, based on principles. 

We will see the international community bending and twisting to accommodate different and mostly contradictory narratives, pro-Israel most of them, pro-Palestine others, and regardless of results, this test will change forever how international law is perceived in different parts of the world. 

The US veto will only prove without a doubt Obama fell on Netanyahu&#039;s trap early on, who didn&#039;t only cut his head, but to further mock him, showed the world it was empty. 

The Palestinian UN test will force everyone to put their money where their mouth is....literally. 

Taoist</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;To those who question what Abbas means when he demands the &#8216;Right of Return&#8217;&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>At this point in time what Abbas said or Netanyahu said here and there, about this or that, is totally and absolutely irrelevant to the ongoing non-debate. </p>
<p>The only true criteria is reality, not what you wish it would be good for Israel and Palestine, good for Palestine, or good for Israel only, which seems to be your favorite position. </p>
<p>And historical reality finds Israel backed into a shameful corner as a modern &#8220;state,&#8221; one dedicated to preserve and perpetuate the oppression of a people whose land Israel claims as &#8220;Biblically&#8221; theirs, an argument recently backed by the alleged &#8220;strategic depth,&#8221; plus the ever-present &#8220;special security needs&#8221; (read keep the occupation going), and many other reasons with which the Israeli establishment, backed by the fundies and wackos on their wingnut side, attempts to continue stealing Palestinian homeland. </p>
<p>The current debate in the UN would put Israel, the US, et al (a few other idiots) at the crosswinds of history, and would help more than any pro-Palestinian website (which are, in general, pretty bad), to show the occupation in its full nakedness. Israel has been pissing against the wind for long time, and is now just beginning to catch the counter-wind. </p>
<p>The ongoing non-debate, therefore, has moved from who said whatever, to a level beyond the comprehension of most Israelis, living by force under an occupation of the mind (preeminently Lieberman&#8217;s hasbaras), unaware Clio has turned her back on Israel. The Palestinian request for recognition as a state will test the limits of the international political establishment, forced by the traditional trans-Atlantic alliance to march in lock-step with the US. We will see how much pressure is the US able to apply on friends and foes at the UN, and we will witness those who bend under pressure, and those who resist, based on principles. </p>
<p>We will see the international community bending and twisting to accommodate different and mostly contradictory narratives, pro-Israel most of them, pro-Palestine others, and regardless of results, this test will change forever how international law is perceived in different parts of the world. </p>
<p>The US veto will only prove without a doubt Obama fell on Netanyahu&#8217;s trap early on, who didn&#8217;t only cut his head, but to further mock him, showed the world it was empty. </p>
<p>The Palestinian UN test will force everyone to put their money where their mouth is&#8230;.literally. </p>
<p>Taoist</p>
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		<title>By: Bosko</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/person-of-the-year-5771-mahmoud-abbas/24224/comment-page-1/#comment-25446</link>
		<dc:creator>Bosko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2011 00:00:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=24224#comment-25446</guid>
		<description>&quot;L&#039;shana tova to all Jewish posters and readers.
A happy, healthy, loving new year and year to all.
May we live to see peace, deep and comprehensive peace&quot;
.
Ditto from me too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;L&#8217;shana tova to all Jewish posters and readers.<br />
A happy, healthy, loving new year and year to all.<br />
May we live to see peace, deep and comprehensive peace&#8221;<br />
.<br />
Ditto from me too.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Witty</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/person-of-the-year-5771-mahmoud-abbas/24224/comment-page-1/#comment-25442</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Witty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2011 22:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=24224#comment-25442</guid>
		<description>L&#039;shana tova to all Jewish posters and readers.

A happy, healthy, loving new year and year to all.

May we live to see peace, deep and comprehensive peace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>L&#8217;shana tova to all Jewish posters and readers.</p>
<p>A happy, healthy, loving new year and year to all.</p>
<p>May we live to see peace, deep and comprehensive peace.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Bosko</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/person-of-the-year-5771-mahmoud-abbas/24224/comment-page-1/#comment-25435</link>
		<dc:creator>Bosko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2011 21:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=24224#comment-25435</guid>
		<description>Thank you Sam. That sums up why this conflict has been so intractable. By the way, how come the Jewish refugees were so willing to move on and rebuild their lives? What is it about Palestinian refugees that makes them so unique? Anyone would think that they were the only refugees in the world.
.
I have my own theory. The Arab peoples are just not willing to move on. They use the refugees as an excuse to try to finish what they started in 1948, the attempted destruction of Israel. The Palestinian Arab refugees have been used as cannon fodder by their Arab brothers ever since ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Sam. That sums up why this conflict has been so intractable. By the way, how come the Jewish refugees were so willing to move on and rebuild their lives? What is it about Palestinian refugees that makes them so unique? Anyone would think that they were the only refugees in the world.<br />
.<br />
I have my own theory. The Arab peoples are just not willing to move on. They use the refugees as an excuse to try to finish what they started in 1948, the attempted destruction of Israel. The Palestinian Arab refugees have been used as cannon fodder by their Arab brothers ever since &#8230;</p>
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