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Palestinian President Abbas: The only leader fighting for the Jewish state

Following the United Nations vote to recognize Palestine as a non-member observer state, Israel quickly announced it would reignite construction in the E1 area of the West Bank, long considered by the U.S. as the last nail in the coffin of the two-state solution. The move is not only Israel’s affront to the two-state solution, but to its existence as a Jewish state.

In his speech at the United Nations General Assembly on Thursday, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas made his commitment to a two-state solution explicitly clear:

Palestine comes today to this prestigious international forum, representative and protector of international legitimacy, reaffirming our conviction that the international community now stands before the last chance to save the two-state solution. (emphasis mine)

Just moments later, Israel’s UN envoy Ron Prosor went up to the podium in the General Assembly, and what he said indicates that he either didn’t bother to listen to what Abbas said, or preferred to lie through his teeth:

President Abbas, I did not hear you use the phrase “two states for two peoples” this afternoon. In fact, I have never heard you say the phrase “two states for two peoples.” Because the Palestinian leadership has never recognized that Israel is the nation-state of the Jewish people.

But Abbas did say it. Not verbatim “two states for two peoples,” but he said “two-state solution,” which is exactly the same thing. So Prosor’s words are baseless. Furthermore, amid Abbas’ criticism of Israel’s destructive conduct – which includes “unprecedented intensification of military assaults, the blockade, settlement activities and ethnic cleansing” (all undeniable facts) – he also made a point to emphasize that the UN bid for non-member observer status is not aimed at delegitimizing Israel, as in fact, it has nothing to do with Israel.

We did not come here seeking to delegitimize a state established years ago, and that is Israel; rather we came to affirm the legitimacy of the state that must now achieve its independence, and that is Palestine.

But Israel refuses to listen. Israel insists on being recognized as a Jewish state. Prosor said the words “Jewish state” 11 times during his speech. He did not say “Palestine” once, which accurately represents Israel’s obstinate refusal, still, after 64 years of wrestling with this entity, of recognizing it for what it so obviously is: Palestine. Palestine is of course not yet a state and has no independence. So all it was asking is to be recognized symbolically. And yet Israel – a state with the largest financial aid package from U.S. in the world, the strongest military in the region, and a system that blatantly privileges Jews and claims to have a monopoly over what is Jewish – is crying for its own recognition while refusing it to Palestinians?

This is outrageous. Israel doesn’t need recognition, because everyone already recognized it as such, whether it likes it or not.  Prime Minister Netanyahu has used the “recognition of a Jewish state” card from the start of his term as a precondition for (read: way to avoid) negotiations. This is the reason in fact, why there has been no advancement of talks between the Israeli government and Palestinian Authority in the last four years.<

But Abbas’ emphatic call for a two-state solution, and warning that “the window of opportunity is narrowing” (an optimistic, if unrealistic, assessment) along with his assurance the move does not aim to delegitimize Israel, all constitutes de facto recognition of Israel as a Jewish state. That is his way of saying it. And both his words and action have indicated it, without actually saying it the way Israel demands.  As it is, Abbas has diminishing legitimacy among Palestinians, and has been consistently criticized for running PA forces as a puppet regime serving Israel’s interest or perpetuating the occupation – so forgive him for not following Israel’s demands to a tee.

As Palestinian official Saeb Erekat plainly put it:  “At a moment where the Palestinian leadership is doing every single effort to save the two-state solution, the Israeli government does everything possible to destroy it.”

The next day, after Palestine was recognized by an overwhelming majority of the world, Israel wasted no time and announced that it was going to build 3,000 new housing units in East Jerusalem and the West Bank, as well as defrosting the freeze on an area called E1, east of the settlement of Ma’ale Adumim, deep in the West Bank. This piece of land, 4.6 square miles long, is for the United States, the biggest settlement taboo, the last geographical nail in the coffin of the two-state solution, because it is the last remaining corridor connecting the West Bank to Jerusalem. If this piece of land is settled by Israel, any notion of a contiguous Palestinian state will become a thing of the past. It is why even George W. Bush insisted during his presidency that any building in this area be indefinitely frozen. Then Prime Minister Sharon heeded the demand.

E1 area in West Bank (Courtesy of Ir Amim)

As Ir Amim, an NGO focusing on the implications of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in Jerusalem, has reported:

At the beginning of 2005, the Ma’aleh Adummim municipality approved two detailed urban plans for the development of the E1 area: one for approximately 3,500 housing units (apartment buildings and villas), and the second for the transfer of the police headquarters. The plan generated harsh criticism from the American government and the European Union.  Both demanded that the plan be frozen, on the grounds that it violated Israel’s commitments according to the ‘Road Map.’ Instead, they maintained that the future of this territory be decided upon by a final status agreement between Israel and the Palestinians. Following this pressure, the Israeli government froze the project in 2004. However, building of the police headquarters was continued on the grounds that, like army bases, the police station would not be seen as creating facts on the ground, but rather as a building that could be removed.

The announcement is a pathetically immature and vengeful reaction by the Israeli government – and couldn’t be more self-defeating. It is a direct affront to a two-state solution, the same solution it consistently claims disingenuously that it so earnestly seeks.  The Palestinian Authority  leader calls for a two-state solution and the Israeli government, by announcing settlement construction, essentially barked back: “No, we want one (apartheid) state!”

What is even more outrageous, is that Israel is doing exactly what it called the Palestinians out for doing when they went to the UN: Unilateralism.  What could be more unilateral than announcing settlement construction on a main stretch of land deep in the West Bank that is considered the last chance for a contiguous Palestinian state?

While the announcement doesn’t currently change anything on the ground as the planning process will take years, on a diplomatic level, due to the sensitivity of the area, it is Israel’s way of saying F you not only to the Palestinians, not only to the United States (its one and only ally, without which it couldn’t exist) – but to itself.  To the very notion of Israel as a Jewish state.

I find myself in an absurd, depressing and enraging reality whereby  I identified with everything Abbas said at the UN , and was horrified (though not at all surprised) with every single word Israel’s envoy said.

Whereas Abbas, in trying to save the two-state solution, is by extension, inevitably trying to save the Jewish state – Israel’s government is doing everything it can to thwart it. It is essentially screaming from the red settlement rooftops: “One segregated state from the river to the sea!” Just don’t say you didn’t know.

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  • COMMENTS

    1. Yonatan

      “The announcement is a pathetically immature and vengeful reaction by the Israeli government – and couldn’t be more self-defeating”

      That’s just another day’s work for the Knesset.

      Reply to Comment
    2. The Trespasser

      wow.
      the only leader. right.

      “”We have heard and you too have heard specifically over the past months the incessant flood of Israeli threats in response to our peaceful, political and diplomatic endeavor for Palestine to acquire non-member observer state in the United Nations. And, you have surely witnessed how some of these threats have been carried out in a barbaric and horrific manner just days ago in the Gaza Strip.”

      Interesting. I thought that operation Pillar of Cloud was launched to prevent rocket fire from the Gaza Strip.

      I’m really not able to comprehend how could one refer to the speech of that liar Abbas.

      Reply to Comment
    3. The Trespasser

      Further – better

      “We will accept no less than the independence of the state of Palestine, with East Jerusalem as its capital, on all the Palestinian territory occupied in 1967, to live in peace and security alongside the state of Israel, and a solution for the refugee issue on the basis of resolution 194, as per the operative part of the Arab Peace Initiative.”

      Here Abbas openly claims that he seeks destruction of Israel.

      Mairav, are you really not getting it?

      Reply to Comment
      • Johnboy

        Abbas: “and a solution for the refugee issue on the basis of resolution 194, as per the operative part of the Arab Peace Initiative.”

        Trespasser: “Here Abbas openly claims that he seeks destruction of Israel.”

        Err, no, he didn’t.

        UNGA Res 194 explicitely sets out the formula for ending the refugee issue, and that formula is Return OR Compensation.

        So all that Abbas is “openly claiming” is that *if* Israel doesn’t want those refugees to return *then* Israel needs to engage seriously on a very generous compensation package.

        But, no, Israel can’t simply tell those refugees to crawl away under a rock.

        Reply to Comment
        • The Trespasser

          >UNGA Res 194 explicitely sets out the formula for ending the refugee issue, and that formula is Return OR Compensation.

          Compensation for those who are willing to forfeit the RoR.

          How many Palestinians have you encountered who will accept compensation?

          >So all that Abbas is “openly claiming” is that *if* Israel doesn’t want those refugees to return *then* Israel needs to engage seriously on a very generous compensation package.

          No. What Abbas is claiming is that as long as there are Palestinians who are willing to return Israel won’t be recognized.

          >But, no, Israel can’t simply tell those refugees to crawl away under a rock.

          Israel is wasting on security billions of dollars every year. Much more than needed to generously compensate each and every Palestinian. But since they have no desire to be compensated they’ll have to stay where they are.

          Arab Peace Initiative demands that Israel withdraw from all occupied territories while refugee problem is to be settled separately. Sorry but you can’t have it both ways.

          Reply to Comment
    4. AYLA

      It’s like we’ve become this people of self-fulfilled victimhood prophecy. I was on a Tablet Magazine comment thread (I tell myself this is activism…) about why the Czech Republic voted against the State, and nearly every comment was like, “Because they did what’s right! Because they support Israel! Because they are moral!” It blew my mind. I mean, if you really believe that that was the wrong path to diplomacy, we can debate, but the comments were just flag-waving, with-us-or-against us, freedom fries. Likewise, during the war, seeing all the blanket, pro-Israel garbage on Facebook (Syria is worse!) as people were dying depressed me almost as much as the violence itself. And when I ask these people–because let’s face it, like most Jews, I know them–how they think this is helping, they say: the world is against us! if we are not for ourselves… etc. People, people, people. My people. What does it mean to be for ourselves? you know what would bring us the support and recognition we apparently crave even though we wield more power than any other 2% of humans on earth? Being supportive of others. Recognizing them. You know what would make the world “see the truth”? Our seeing the truth, which, no, leftists don’t think means saying that Israel is bad and Palestine is good. Try some gray on. Pink-tinted. Are we not a critically-minded people? One who learns through questioning? Self-reflection? caring about and for those who are not our own (in the torah, this is an actual stipulation for being on The Land, as the entire five books are an instruction manual for *how* to be on it). As everything comes to a dramatic head, we have an opportunity to take the helm and change course. We could simply wake up. We, Jews, could join together, regardless of our politics, and demand that Israel not go through with this plan to build–for the last-ditch sake of a Jewish State. Imagine how *that* would be greeted by the world? Alternately, we can go on sleeping and defending ourselves into a self-righteous, isolated, unrecognized pariah state.

      Reply to Comment
      • Trisa

        I’m Czech. I do not know why the Czech government has decided so. Our government has no confidence of people, but in this case some people agree with them. A lot of people assume the stereotypes and don´t trying to find the facts. Our media is not objective (this is not an isolated phenomenon) but many people do not need more. This is sad.. On the other hand, many Czechs disagrees with the government decision and the one-sided view. They’re trying to change. But it will not easy. I´m sorry.

        Reply to Comment
    5. Palestinian

      Israel and its obsession with its Jewishness.Maybe we should ask Israel to recognize our Nakba , its massacres and land theft.

      Reply to Comment
      • The Trespasser

        Of course you could ask. Right after you recognize Israel’s right to exist.

        Reply to Comment
        • AYLA

          And there you have it, @Tresspasser and @Palestinian–mirror images of each other (on paper)–opposite sides of the same coin. There is currently no symmetry, so I sympathize a bit more with the longing for Nakba recognition, certainly as what should happen first. And yet. if you can’t recognize each other, how about recognizing yourselves in each other?

          Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            >certainly as what should happen first

            Why?

            Reply to Comment
          • AYLA

            I appreciate the sincere question; I thought I’d be lambasted. so why should we go first? Partly because of what Palestinian already pointed out: Israel, as a Jewish State, does exist, big time. But I understand the existential fear, so: mostly because 65 years is a long time–a lifetime for many, and experientially, a lifetime for all–and the asymmetry since 1948, and particularly now, makes it such that we have to say Sorry first. We, as a People and State, have completely rationalized every move we’ve made (based on partial truths at best) and haven’t acknowledged the Palestinian experience. Many jews deny the existence of the Palestinian people. One of them is Golda Meir. You can’t even say “occupation” to many diaspora jews (at least Israelis know damn well that it’s an occupation). So if I were Palestinian, I would not be interested in giving one ounce of recognition to Israel without Israel first recognizing my side of what happened, and continues to happen, daily.

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            And what should we do with the fact that whatever happened to Palestinians happened SOLELY because they’ve refused to accept Jewish state 64 years ago?

            By the way, yes – there is no “Palestinian” people (at least never was until 1960′s), although there was/is Palestinian Arabs, Jews, Armenians, Circassians and few others.

            There is no reason why Palestinian Arabs are entitled to be “Palestinians” while other nations which resided in the same area are not. You are welcome to try and rationalize that.

            Reply to Comment
          • I direct you to Ezekiel 18:2-4, YHWH having it said also at Jerimiah 31:29-30. 65 years constitute somewhat more than 2 reproductive generations. Sins of the father are not to be bestowed on their sons. Whatever caused the failure of a Palestinian State at time of the partition is not germaine to those leading truncated lives now. This is simple decency.

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            I could direct you to Exodus 34:7
            “yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations.”

            Decency you demand?
            I think that Palestinians were treat with maximal decency – people only had done to them what they wanted to do to other people.

            Whatever had caused failure of the Palestinian state 64 years ago has not gone anyway – Arabs still hate Jews more than love their own children.

            p.s. Actually, Palestinians got much better treatment than the one Jews would be exposed to should they (Palestinians) had won any of wars.

            Reply to Comment
          • AYLA

            Greg, thank you. And @Tresspasser, I can’t take this on because I can’t do that to my own day, which happens to be beautiful. What do you want? Do you want everyone to live in safety and sovereignty and dignity on this land? If so, get out of the trenches.

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            >I can’t take this on because I can’t do that to my own day, which happens to be beautiful.

            I’m sorry to cause you cognitive dissonance but when one is taking on root causes of the disease some pain is not only expected but also is necessary.

            >What do you want?
            What do I want is of very little importance. What matters is what Palestinians want.

            >Do you want everyone to live in safety and sovereignty and dignity on this land?
            I’m not quite sure regarding that. For example, I do not want people who support honor killings to live here – or at any other place in the universe.

            Yet again – have you asked Palestinians the same question?

            And whoever you’ve asked agreed that Jews have right to sovereignty?

            >If so, get out of the trenches.
            All it takes to make one leave the trench is ceasefire. Until there is one – on the global scale – it’s much safer down here.

            You seem to forget that Jews dug trenches back in 1878-1929-1948 not because at the time they’ve got nothing better to do.

            Reply to Comment
          • mike panzone

            nsttnocontentcomment

            Reply to Comment
          • AYLA, they are winning for the moment. If they bring your day(s) down, they win more.

            Trespaser, you are well aware that the mouth of YHWH is repudiating Torah here. You well know that the Prophets took the State as crown to account in defining justice. You do not honor your full tradition. And I am not surprised.

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            Greg,
            It takes two prerequisites to try and understand what is written in Torah
            1 – One must know ancient Hebrew
            2 – One must have Oral Torah teacher.

            Lack of either makes understanding Torah similar to a kind of cargo cult.

            p.s. Who “they” are winning?
            “People Who Know What They Are Talking About”?

            Well, “they” always win at the end of the day.

            Reply to Comment
        • Palestinian

          Whats the point of recognizing the right of Israel to exist ? It does exist!Unless you feel your state is illegitimate in Palestine…

          Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            >Whats the point of recognizing the right of Israel to exist

            Because that’s how one make peace, silly. However the peace is obviously not on Palestinian agenda.

            >Unless you feel your state is illegitimate in Palestine

            People who denied statehood three (or four?) consecutive times are really not in position to question legitimacy of others’ states.

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestinian

            Israel is the only country that demands recognizing “it’s right to exist” .The state that was recognized 64 years ago insists the Palestinians ,who live under its occupation and whose state was recognized 2 days ago ,recognize its legitimacy to exist !This is pathetic and reminds me of homes in East Jerusalem , although Israel controls Jerusalem and can take over any property there ,they try to bribe people to purchase their homes to make the existence of the new immigrants there legal …huh

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            >Israel is the only country that demands recognizing “it’s right to exist”

            That is probably because Israel is the only stale which existence is denied by some other entities/countries.

            Palestinian state was recognized only two days ago because Palestinians denied it’s (the Palestinian state’s) recognition for 64 years.

            >…and can take over any property there

            Now that’s a big fat lie.

            >they try to bribe people to purchase their homes

            And this one is pure idiotic.
            Bribing owner to sell you his property. Ponder on it.

            >to make the existence of the new immigrants there legal

            Yep. That’s how Israel was created.

            “The thing we must do now is to become as strong as we can, to conquer the country, covertly, bit by bit … We will not set up committees so that the Arabs will know what we are after, we shall act like silent spies, we shall buy, buy, buy.”

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestinian

            “Israel is the only stale which existence is denied by some other entities/countries”
            This is not true , everybody knows that Israel does exist in Palestine , unfortunately.

            “and can take over any property there”
            There is a list of home evictions ,Palestinians homes handed to Israeli thieves.

            “they try to bribe people to purchase their homes”
            When you approach impoverished people (by Israel) and you (Israel) pay them double or triple the value of their property (to push them to leave to judaize Al Quds),this is ignobility, the soul of Israel and Zionism .

            Israel was created by illegal immigration ,deceit , manipulation and organized terrorism.

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            >This is not true , everybody knows that Israel does exist in Palestine, unfortunately.
            Not quite.
            http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/palmatoc1.html

            >There is a list of home evictions, Palestinians homes handed to Israeli thieves.
            I know. Go and read through it. You’ll find a lot of amusing details.

            >When you approach impoverished people (by Israel)
            Lie.

            >and you (Israel) pay them double or triple the value of their property (to push them to leave to judaize Al Quds),this is ignobility, the soul of Israel and Zionism .

            So now by your standards Jews are not even allowed to buy.
            As I’ve told – idiotic.

            >Israel was created by illegal immigration

            Lie. You’ve never had a country to make laws, so you can’t really claim what’s legal and what’s not.

            >deceit , manipulation and organized terrorism.
            As most (all?) other countries.
            So what?

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestinian

            Maps ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWKPRC-_oSg

            Home evictions : forged documents and a biased Israeli court

            Israel does impoverish the Palestinian residents of East Jerusalem : (in Hebrew) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9E2aXncpTc

            “So now by your standards Jews are not even allowed to buy”
            You don’t impoverish people intentionally then offer to purchase their house to judaize the place ,again ignobility is the soul of your state .

            Israel was created by illegal immigration,the people of the land decide who settles in their land and who doesn’t .Even under the British rule ,some of them were considered illegal immigrants.

            If all countries were created by terrorism ,it doesn’t mean it was right or moral .Two wrongs don’t make a right.We are in 2012 and Israel is ethnically cleansing Palestine,Israel is the only country that is occupying millions of people , it’s the longest occupation in the 20th century .

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            >Maps ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWKPRC-_oSg
            So what? There is no “Palestine” to be on any map – contrary to Israel.

            >Home evictions : forged documents and a biased Israeli court

            Stop forging documents than.

            >Israel does impoverish the Palestinian residents of East Jerusalem : (in Hebrew)

            Say, are you really that ignorant or simply too dumb?
            Jews couldn’t impoverish Palestinian Arabs before 1948 – but that was the time when most of land was bought.

            By the way, do you know why there are no prosperous Arab countries? Maybe because Arabs lack something important?

            >Israel was created by illegal immigration
            And again – you are lying.

            >The people of the land decide who settles in their land and who doesn’t

            Nonsense. First of all – government does, not “people”. Secondly – by international law a country is obliged to settle refugees.

            >Even under the British rule ,some of them were considered illegal immigrants.

            Brits had no right to decide who is legal and who is not.

            >If all countries were created by terrorism ,it doesn’t mean it was right or moral

            Moral? Tell me, is it moral to kill your sister if she is dating an infidel?

            >Two wrongs don’t make a right.

            Mindlessly repeating other people’s word’s won’t make you any smarter.

            >We are in 2012 and Israel is ethnically cleansing Palestine

            Lie.

            >Israel is the only country that is occupying millions of people

            Lie.

            >it’s the longest occupation in the 20th century .

            Lie.

            Dude, you – Palestinians – really should stop lying. First and foremost to your own selves. Until than you’ll stay what/where you are now.

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestinian

            “So what? There is no “Palestine” to be on any map – contrary to Israel”
            Exactly so Israel doesn’t need our recognition, its only a political game .

            “Stop forging documents “
            Send SMS to your settlers who forge documents,please .

            Israel is impoverishing Palestinian Arabs in East Jerusalem , we are in 2012 (in case you don’t know) did you even watch it ?

            >Israel was created by illegal immigration
            “Check the “White Paper” (in case you comprehend what you read)

            “Nonsense. First of all – government does, not “people”.
            Governments are elected by the people.

            “Secondly – by international law a country is obliged to settle refugees.”
            What international law ? What paragraph ? The UN was established in 1945 ! And remember as you said it wasn’t a country so there was no obligation .The Zionist Jewish immigration started decades before the 48 war .No country/people will allow mass immigration of people who declared they want to establish their state in that country/land .
            .
            “Brits had no right to decide who is legal and who is not.”
            I agree ,it was the indigenous population .

            “Moral? Tell me, is it moral to kill your sister if she is dating an infidel?”
            Finally , the diversionary tactic ,Arabs and Muslims ,but unfortunately it doesn’t work with me ,back to the Israeli terrorism .

            “Two wrongs don’t make a right.”
            Whats smart about it ? oh your brain couldn’t comprehend it so you thought it’s a complicated proverb .

            “We are in 2012 and Israel is ethnically cleansing Palestine”
            When you decide to destroy an entire village ,isn’t that ethnic cleansing ?.

            “Israel is the only country that is occupying millions of people /Lie ?”
            Give me another one.

            “it’s the longest occupation in the 20th century /Lie”
            Prove me wrong

            Dude, you need to educate yourself and work on your mental capabilities.

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            >“So what? There is no “Palestine” to be on any map – contrary to Israel”
            Exactly so Israel doesn’t need our recognition, its only a political game.

            Let’s see…
            State of Palestine does not exist therefore it is not on Israeli maps.

            State of Israel does exist, but nevertheless it is not on Palestinian maps.

            Hmmm… I think that recognition is rather necessary. So you – Palestinians – would know that Israel is here to stay.

            >Send SMS to your settlers who forge documents,please.
            Out of every 10 forged documents 6.7 are made by Palestinians.

            >Israel is impoverishing Palestinian Arabs in East Jerusalem , we are in 2012 (in case you don’t know) did you even watch it ?

            Of course I did not. It’s irrelevant – until 1948 Israel could not impoverish anyone while MOST of lands were bought at the time.

            >Israel was created by illegal immigration
            “Check the “White Paper” (in case you comprehend what you read)

            You are wrong. Did you ever read the White Paper? I’m sure that you did not.

            >“Nonsense. First of all – government does, not “people”.
            Governments are elected by the people.

            Exactly. However since Palestinians never bothered to elect own government until long after 1967…

            >“Secondly – by international law a country is obliged to settle refugees.”
            What international law? What paragraph? The UN was established in 1945 !

            If UN was established in 1945 than by what law Jewish immigrants who came to Palestine until than could be illegal?

            >And remember as you said it wasn’t a country so there was no obligation.

            No obligations and no rights. You see, latter comes with the former, and vice versa.

            >The Zionist Jewish immigration started decades before the 48 war.

            Actually almost 100 years before that.

            >No country/people will allow mass immigration of people who declared they want to establish their state in that country/land.

            So basically you affirm that Palestinian Arabs had right to massacre Jews who came to live in Palestine.

            You see, while established state has right (by the letter of international law) to deny migration, people without state has no right to do so.

            >Finally , the diversionary tactic, Arabs and Muslims, but unfortunately it doesn’t work with me, back to the Israeli terrorism.

            It will work. I promise. You see, people who live by their own moral standards can not demand that some other standards would be applied to them as well.

            You kill you own women? Than you are not a civilized men, but mere barbarian, and should be dealt with as such.

            >“Two wrongs don’t make a right.”
            Whats smart about it?

            Nothing. It is one of the most misleading proverbs ever. Repeating it mindlessly won’t help you much.

            >“We are in 2012 and Israel is ethnically cleansing Palestine”
            When you decide to destroy an entire village, isn’t that ethnic cleansing?

            Not exactly. It pretty much depends on what is happening to people who lived in the village afterwards.

            Can I have a list of villages destroyed in 2012?

            >“Israel is the only country that is occupying millions of people /Lie ?”
            Give me another one.

            With pleasure.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tibet_%281950%E2%80%93present%29

            >“it’s the longest occupation in the 20th century /Lie”
            Prove me wrong.

            Simple: since there was no Palestinian State until few days ago – there was no occupation since the term “occupation” could only be applied when State A occupies (part of) State B.

            My mental capabilities are really fine. Got a nasty AC joint dislocation few days ago as outcome of sports incident but it does not affect mental processes.

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestine Rossa

            >My mental capabilities are really fine. Got a nasty AC joint dislocation few days ago as outcome of sports incident but it does not affect mental processes.

            There wasn’t any recognizable mental processes before, so how should the dislocation have any affect?

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            I love it when people resort to personal qualities and abilities of the opponent while refraining from on-topic commentaries.

            It is a straightforward indication of two important points:
            1 – they have no viable objections
            2 – they are rude and uneducated

            http://www.skepdic.com/ignorance.html

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestinian

            Are you saying If a place isn’t recognized by the UN as a country it shouldn’t exist on maps ?When you ignore the existence of 4 million people ,it means you don’t recognize their right to exist .BTW Palestine is recognized as a country .

            “Out of every 10 forged documents 6.7 are made by Palestinians”
            Your source ? I hope its not a pro-Israel newspaper .

            East Jerusalem was occupied in 1967 ,therefore I was referring to impoverishment policies after 67 ,I cant believe how smart you are ,and again the video doesn’t even mention the year 1948 .

            I did read the White Paper ,the British restricted the immigration of Jews ,the Zionists went crazy and carried out several terror attacks against the British.

            Governments are elected by the people to represent them.The people totally refused the Jewish settlement in their land , period.

            Zionist Jews who immigrated to Palestine were preparing for massacring the indigenous population to have a Jewish majority.

            Diversionary tactic : By your logic , if an Israeli beats his wife,all Israelis should go to jail.

            The proverb : How is it misleading ,its simple and true ,what bothers you is using it against your dumb argument ”Because A was a thief ,B claims its okay to steal “.

            Ethnic cleansing and your view : Is it okay if a country decides to erase Jewish neighborhoods relocating them to Jewish-inhabited areas to concentrate the largest number of Jews on the smallest area of land ?

            “Can I have a list of villages destroyed in 2012?” Lets start with Al Araqeeb

            Occupation : Palestine is an occupied country ,don’t argue .

            “Simple: since there was no Palestinian State until few days ago – there was no occupation “
            How ignorant , check convention (4) article (42)

            Your mental capabilities : mad people wont admit they are mad so …..

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            >Are you saying If a place isn’t recognized by the UN as a country it shouldn’t exist on maps?

            If there is no certain country than obviously such country should not be on maps.

            >When you ignore the existence of 4 million people ,it means you don’t recognize their right to exist.

            Not really – all cities populated with Palestinian Arabs are on Israeli maps – unlike Palestinian maps where cities like Tel Aviv simply are not present.

            >BTW Palestine is recognized as a country.

            For about one week now.

            >“Out of every 10 forged documents 6.7 are made by Palestinians”
            Your source?

            Personal experience.

            >East Jerusalem was occupied in 1967, therefore I was referring to impoverishment policies after 67.

            So why are you bringing up this movie?
            Walls, checkpoints and other major restrictions appeared only after 2nd Intifada erupted back in 2000.

            I myself was living in Givat Zeev at the time, and was going to Shoafat for shopping on almost weekly basis – like most of my neighbors did. Now hardly anyone goes there.

            Why? Because there is slight chance of not coming back but appearing in evening news instead.

            >I cant believe how smart you are, and again the video doesn’t even mention the year 1948.

            You can’t really.
            The video is irrelevant as I’ve told earlier.

            >I did read the White Paper, the British restricted the immigration of Jews.
            Did you?
            Than you should’ve know that by the time WP was written there were already about 600000 perfectly legal Jewish migrants in Palestine,

            The Brits btw did not RESTRICTED but rather LIMITED Jewish migration to mere additional 75000.

            >the Zionists went crazy and carried out several terror attacks against the British.

            Because the British did not really had any right to dictate whether Jews allowed or not migrate to Palestine – exactly as they could not limit Arab migration.

            >Governments are elected by the people to represent them.

            But at the time there were no Palestinian Arab government.

            >The people totally refused the Jewish settlement in their land, period.

            And what exactly made that land theirs? The fact that they invaded it few hundred years ago?

            >Zionist Jews who immigrated to Palestine were preparing for massacring the indigenous population to have a Jewish majority.

            Lie.

            >Diversionary tactic : By your logic, if an Israeli beats his wife,all Israelis should go to jail.

            No. By my logic if an Israeli beats his wife and whole society completely supports it than Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth.

            >The proverb: How is it misleading, its simple and true.

            It is simple but is not necessarily truthful, especially due to lack of clear definitions of what is the right way to undo the wrong.

            >what bothers you is using it against your dumb argument

            My arguments are flawless – however it takes time and effort to comprehend them.

            >”Because A was a thief, B claims its okay to steal“.

            To be more precise – “A had stolen from B and now complains that B had stolen part of it back.”

            >Ethnic cleansing and your view: Is it okay if a country decides to erase Jewish neighborhoods relocating them to Jewish-inhabited areas to concentrate the largest number of Jews on the smallest area of land?

            It happened before. Few times. No one gave a shit, which makes me believe that should it happen again one won’t give much shit either.

            If it’s ok by everyone’s standard for last few millenniums than who am I to claim that it is wrong?

            >“Can I have a list of villages destroyed in 2012?” Lets start with Al Araqeeb.

            That illegal Beduin settlement? Ok. Add Migron – illegal Jewish settlement.

            2 destroyed settlements so far. Got any more?

            >Occupation: Palestine is an occupied country, don’t argue.

            Yes, since 29/11/2012, but not before that.

            >“Simple: since there was no Palestinian State until few days ago – there was no occupation “
            How ignorant, check convention (4) article (42)

            Yawn. Did you ever bothered to read the title?

            “SECTION III
            MILITARY AUTHORITY OVER THE TERRITORY OF THE HOSTILE *STATE*

            Art. 42. Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army…”

            See? STATE. There was no Palestinian state = there is no occupation.

            >”Your mental capabilities: mad people wont admit they are mad so…”

            Since you haven’t produced even one viable argument I’ll take it as a compliment from a cheap loser.

            Reply to Comment
    6. Richard Witty

      The likud agenda is clear.

      The question remains is if that is Israel’s agenda. We’ll get confirmation in seven weeks.

      Do you think that is Israel’s agenda and identity, should be?

      If no, then please put your weight into campaigning and electing an alternative coalition.

      In seven weeks, its possible that the one-person one-vote from river to sea will be the only just game in town.

      Reply to Comment
      • As far as I can tell, Richard, your are correct: the State will continue settler encroachment, pushing resident Palestinians further off for “security” of these, and weld its expunging power as it can in denying reentry upon leaving the occupied territories. Which really aren’t occupied; no one lives there.

        Reply to Comment
    7. directrob

      In the Middle East every word counts. Two states for two people implies an ethnic division. A two state solutions along 67 borders implies a division of land. The difference for the five million or so Israeli Palestinian refugees and the state of Israel is enormous.

      Reply to Comment
    8. Lauren

      I love how the world is finally waking up. The world wants the insanity to end. Let’s see what happens when Palestinians go to the UN criminal court and file charges against Israel.

      Reply to Comment
      • Lauren, you can’t file charges against a state in the International Criminal Court. Charges are against natural persons, not states.

        If a state of Palestine does come under ICC jurisdiction, then the ICC can prosecute Israelis for war crimes, but it can prosecute Palestinians for war crimes as well, for instance militarily targeting civilians.

        Reply to Comment
      • Mista Mobs UK

        I hope they do it soon!

        Reply to Comment
    9. This article is just unbelievable. The “two-state solution” is absolutely not equivalent to “two states for two peoples.” How can anyone seriously say those are equivalent?

      The “two-state solution” means two states, Israel and Palestine. It does not say that Israel will remain a Jewish nation-state, i.e., the state of the people Israel. It includes the possibility that Israel will cease to be a Jewish nation-state and become a “state of all its citizens,” perhaps as a stage towards becoming an Arab-ruled state. That’s exactly the goal of many supporters of a two-state solution, especially Arab Israelis and Palestinians in the territories; Dahlia Sheindlin has posted survey results at +972 demonstrating this. It’s most likely the privately held goal of Abbas himself, though we can’t read his mind.

      Let’s put politics aside for a moment, forgot about what solution is good or bad. This is just simple reading comprehension, people. Those two phrases are not equivalent; that’s the very crux of the two-state problem.

      Reply to Comment
      • Aaron, this is paranoid. The intenral character of Israel is its own affair. The Czech Republic is Czech; but if it declared itself the eternal home of the gypsies, the States of the world would have nothing to say. About 20% of Israeli citizens are not Jewish. As we know from the Citizenship Law Case, many in the Israeli elite fear a demographic threat within Israel, irrespective of the “One State” outcome. Abbas, being of the same labeled ethnicity as most of that 20%, is not going to unilaterally condemn these to a specific line in Israel internal politics. In fact, given the admitted fear of an internal demographic threat, one can see proclaiming Israel the “Jewish State” as internal interference on his part. This has nothing to do with free ingress into Israel as insured by your Declaration of Independence. That, too, is solely an internal matter of Israel. So, given Abbas has affirmed “two States,” what you are demanding is his explicit interference in Israeli politics. What you become is no concern of his; he is taking a respectful position on internal affairs.

        The US cannot demand you recognize it as “the seat of all liberty.” Well, it could, but it would be rather silly. So too the phrase “the Jewish State.” The existential rhetoric within Israel is now so intense that his obvious distinction for State internal self determination becomes anger at not siding with the large majority faction within Israel. All I can read in this blindness is a deep fear that a Palestinian State would actively try to support its ethnicity WITHIN Israel as defined by the “Two State Solution.” This would be as wrong as Mexico sending arms to its ethnicity within the US. As Mexico would be obligated to stop its citizens from sending such support privately, a Palestinian State would be similarly obligated.

        To aliviate this existential terror I see only one “solution”: expunge the 20% in Israel from Israel. And that is powerfully wrong.

        Underneath all of this I sense a fear to belief that the racial conflict will never stop, irrespective of Statehood. The only pathway for such cherished fear is the One State outcome as actualized by the Israeli State, coupled with ultimate removal of Bank residents to Jordan, at least via citizenship. And that is an irrational fantasy.

        You have what you dreamed of, save for that 20%, but the laws of modern developed States will not let you, easily, expunge them. Deal with what you have become; don’t demand Abbas do it for you. In anycase, he cannot.

        Reply to Comment
        • The Trespasser

          Greg,
          >What you become is no concern of his; he is taking a respectful position on internal affairs.

          You are quite wrong on that.

          Abbas openly stated that his goal is return of 7 000 000 of Palestinian Arab refugees.
          I don’t see how it could be called “a respectful position”

          Reply to Comment
          • 7 million Palestinians are not going to enter Israel. The right of return is a fiction in any en mass sense. And, since Israel is quite capable of preventing their return, as it has for 50 years or so, it is rather silly to be afraid of it. Since Bibi et al want to “negotiate without preconditions” it is disinginuous to want this never right barred, irrespective of settlements. Even on your own terms, saying “Two States” is neutral–no preconditions.

            You are as paranoid as hell when it comes to race–making a hell.

            Reply to Comment
          • Richard Witty

            Gregg,
            I think you are wrong on that mass immigration statement, depending on the wording and criteria of return.

            If there is simultaneously an unlimited right of return from the camps in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, West Bank, Gaza without really any criteria, and with accompanying funding for community restoration, I would expect MANY to take it up.

            Any right of return, could only be humane if accompanied by funding for development, otherwise it would be just migration from one camp to another.

            Its a dilemma for whomever receives the refugees, Israel or Palestine, large numbers of impoverished, unskilled, dis-integrated communities.

            Helping one another isn’t big on anyone’s list of priorties these days. Rages, fears, greeds, religious rationalizations are.

            Reply to Comment
          • Neither Israel nor a now fantasy West Bank could absorb millions. Those external to the Bank or Gaza have been played as pawns. Even intense, successful, development in the Bank would have to trickle in external refugees. Israel, as a State in the UN, does not have to admit a single refugee. Trespasser’s hysterical warnings are purely diversional. So: Abbas, admiting Israel is a State, admits no refugees can be forced on it.

            This is a ridiculous word game. There will be no combined Palestinian State of Gaza and the Bank. Even if the Bank could become autonomous, the external refugees cannot be admitted in significant number for some time.

            I stand by my point of no importance: by admitting Israel to be a State, Abbas can take no active stand on its internal policy, either on the status of Israel’s non-Jewish citizens or on the admission of immigrants into it, either Jewish or non-Jewish.

            What in the hell are you arguing about? The Bank has entered a new game. For Trespasser, it is the expunging of foreigners from the land of Israel whole. For those who think Yahweh should get some serious therapy, it is the introduction of human particularism to advocate less than brutal, truncated lives for babies being born this day.

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            >7 million Palestinians are not going to enter Israel. The right of return is a fiction in any en mass sense

            7 000 000 Palestinians do not think so.

            Two States have one precondition – one of these states is going to be the Jewish state called Israel.

            No-one is afraid of the RoR. Simply – it won’t ever be granted and Palestinians have to drop it if they want to proceed with peace.

            Reply to Comment
        • Greg, are you serious that Israel’s (little “c”) constitution is Israel’s own, internal affair? You never heard anyone outside of Israel talk about “a state of all its citizens,” about racist, anachronistic, 19th-century style nation-states, about the unacceptability of a Jewish state inside of Palestine, about the unacceptability of rule by non-Muslims over the Muslim wakf of Palestine, about a Palestinian national right to their entire homeland of Palestine, and so on? None of these goals are inconsistent with there being two states in Palestine.

          The most likely way to end Jewish sovereignty inside of Palestine is not to erase a state called Israel, but to change the State of Israel into a “state of all its citizens” or whatever. It’s extremely naive to think that Palestinians are not concerned with that process. The war will continue either until the existence of the State of Israel, which is essentially a Jewish state, is internalized – not legitimated, but internalized – by Palestinians, or until the Jewish state no longer exists.

          Reply to Comment
      • Arieh

        Aaron, I agree with you totally. Had you not wrote your post I would have written it and phrased it much like you did.

        The two phrases do not mean the same thing. It is an exercise in comprehension 101.

        Reply to Comment
      • Rauna

        Aaron/trespasser, Israel is a sovereign state,recognized by international law,member of the UN. You are free democratically to do whatever you want with your own population. Why is it so critical for you to get palestinian to recognize Israel. Iran come with the name Islamic republic of Iran, but it never force anyone to recognize it as a state for muslim. Beside, there’s thousand of jews live in Iran till today.

        Reply to Comment
        • The Trespasser

          >Why is it so critical for you to get Palestinians to recognize Israel.

          Oh, it’s not critical. Far from that.
          To be exact – no one could care less what Palestinians do recognize and what they don’t.

          However until Palestinians widely and openly recognize that Israel is here to stay there is no hope of peaceful resolution of the conflict.

          Not Israelis need this recognition, but Palestinians for the sake of their own future.

          >Iran come with the name Islamic republic of Iran, but it never force anyone to recognize it as a state for muslim.

          That is because no-one ever denied Iran’s right to exist as an Islamic state.

          >Beside, there’s thousand of Jews live in Iran till today.

          This is a bit irrelevant – there is over a million of Muslims living inside Israel, so what?

          Conflict with Iran is rather unnatural, by the way – there is no territorial or other disputes.

          Reply to Comment
    10. YoMo

      agree with Aaron – two states and two states for two peoples are very different
      Abbas wants Palestine as a state for Palestinians, not just whoever happens to be there
      To “accept Israel” is simply to accept a geographic entity with a name – unless one acknowledges Israel as a state for a people it is a hollow statement

      Reply to Comment
    11. XYZ

      At the Camp David meetings in 2000 with Clinton, Arafat and Barak, Barak offered to give Arafat sovereignity and control of Judaism’s holiest place, the Temple Mount in Jerusalem to Arafat with one proviso…that Arafat agree to a clause in the agreement that says he recognizes that the Jews also view the Temple Mount as a holy place. Arafat adamantly refused to agree to this, and as I understand, Clinton berated him for it, after all, Barak was willing to hand it over to him. Why would it hurt Arafat merely to acknowledge an historical fact regarding Jewish sentiments to the site. Yet he would not do it. They CAN NOT acknowledge any Jewish rights or Jewish historical connection to the country. That is why 2SS does NOT mean they recognize Israel as a Jewish state in any form.

      Reply to Comment
      • To give Palestinian negotiating team their due, I think they were right to reject the recognition of a Jewish “affinity” (if that was the word used) to the site. That could have been used to undermine Palestinian sovereignty over the Temple Mount and Western Wall.

        Reply to Comment
    12. Arieh

      The following article in Haaretz at least covers the issues in an honest way.

      http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/why-palestinians-can-t-recognize-a-jewish-state-1.382091

      From the article:

      “last May, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu posed a serious challenge to the Palestinian Authority: If the PA would just say, “We recognize Israel as a Jewish state,” this would be sufficient to end the conflict.”

      “The response of PA Prime Minister Dr. Salam Fayyad, in a recent interview with Haaretz, was that, “Israel’s character is its own business. It is not up to the Palestinians to define it.”

      “That is an unconvincing response. If recognition is just a technical point, why not say the seven requested words in order to win the vote in the United Nations? The Palestine Liberation Organization certainly understands the significance of Netanyahu’s offer”

      There is more interesting stuff in that article. Whoever reads it can pick their own side because it covers both sides of the argument. Unlike this one here which is plainly biased.

      Reply to Comment
    13. Leo

      The irony of the story may well be that while the state of Israel is so well-bent onto its own destruction, the goyim are trying hard to rescue it.

      I believe the regretted Y. Leibowitz said something along these lines long ago.

      Maybe the sanctions against our state, similarly to those against Apartheid South Africa, will help our leaders realize what needs to be done.

      A religious Jew living in the land of Israel who, while a loyal citizen, refuses to confuse between the state (our government) and Israel.

      Reply to Comment
      • Trepetic

        Leo said:
        “A religious Jew living in the land of Israel who, while a loyal citizen, refuses to confuse between the state (our government) and Israel”

        Yes, Leo every loyal citizen of a state wishes that sanctions should be imposed on their state, everytime he disagrees with the government.

        Right on Leo. You sound very authentic.

        Reply to Comment
    14. Trepetic

      ” Prime Minister Netanyahu has used the “recognition of a Jewish state” card from the start of his term as a precondition for (read: way to avoid) negotiations.”

      Really? I thought it was the settlements freeze demand. I must have been mistaken.

      Reply to Comment
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