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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Palestinian narrative of 1948 is not immune.&#8221; A response</title>
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	<link>http://972mag.com/palestinian-narrative-of-1948-is-not-immune-a-response/29850/</link>
	<description>Independent commentary and news from Israel &#38; Palestine</description>
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		<title>By: Phlegmatico</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/palestinian-narrative-of-1948-is-not-immune-a-response/29850/comment-page-1/#comment-54137</link>
		<dc:creator>Phlegmatico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2012 14:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=29850#comment-54137</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;&gt;   The Palestinians are not responsible for the expulsions that happened in other parts of the world. Palestinians and Iraqis and Egyptians are not the same people


I will believe that when I start seeing Palestinians lining up at an Israeli Lishkat Giyus in order to be just another Muslim Israeli soldier like the Cherkassim. Until then, I will believe them when they send delegations to be full members of the Arab League.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;&gt;   The Palestinians are not responsible for the expulsions that happened in other parts of the world. Palestinians and Iraqis and Egyptians are not the same people</p>
<p>I will believe that when I start seeing Palestinians lining up at an Israeli Lishkat Giyus in order to be just another Muslim Israeli soldier like the Cherkassim. Until then, I will believe them when they send delegations to be full members of the Arab League.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/palestinian-narrative-of-1948-is-not-immune-a-response/29850/comment-page-1/#comment-50792</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:50:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Joseph Dana is a sick antisemite who should never be trusted on anything Israel-related.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joseph Dana is a sick antisemite who should never be trusted on anything Israel-related.</p>
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		<title>By: yasherkoack</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/palestinian-narrative-of-1948-is-not-immune-a-response/29850/comment-page-1/#comment-35372</link>
		<dc:creator>yasherkoack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2011 05:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>gorenberg - and rechavia - got Owned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gorenberg &#8211; and rechavia &#8211; got Owned.</p>
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		<title>By: A Response to +972&#8242;s Joseph Dana and Noam Sheizaf</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/palestinian-narrative-of-1948-is-not-immune-a-response/29850/comment-page-1/#comment-35312</link>
		<dc:creator>A Response to +972&#8242;s Joseph Dana and Noam Sheizaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2011 19:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=29850#comment-35312</guid>
		<description>[...]    Gershom Gorenberg The following is a response to two pieces that appeared at +972, and is cross-posted there. Links to Dana&#8217;s and Sheizaf&#8217;s pieces appear in the body of my reply. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]    Gershom Gorenberg The following is a response to two pieces that appeared at +972, and is cross-posted there. Links to Dana&#8217;s and Sheizaf&#8217;s pieces appear in the body of my reply. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Tankel</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/palestinian-narrative-of-1948-is-not-immune-a-response/29850/comment-page-1/#comment-35300</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Tankel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2011 16:55:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=29850#comment-35300</guid>
		<description>Joseph got Owned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joseph got Owned.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/palestinian-narrative-of-1948-is-not-immune-a-response/29850/comment-page-1/#comment-35184</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2011 03:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=29850#comment-35184</guid>
		<description>Sinjim,
I did not do my due diligence and refer to the original text of the article; for that I am embarrassed.  Having read the article, I agree that the brush stroke is broad as you say.  I&#039;d like to imagine that Gorenberg&#039;s phrasing in the original refers to a contingent within the Palestinian diaspora that expresses an &quot;overdone nationalism,&quot; like that with which he openly deals in the Jewish diaspora.  However, that seems to me to be grasping at straws on my part, though I would be reluctant to call it wishful thinking.  I guess I just assume that reasonable and intelligent people must, if arguing--or even simply discussing something--in good faith, reject reductive characterizations of diverse groups, even of the &quot;other.&quot; Thanks for your response.  

Best,
Mike</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sinjim,<br />
I did not do my due diligence and refer to the original text of the article; for that I am embarrassed.  Having read the article, I agree that the brush stroke is broad as you say.  I&#8217;d like to imagine that Gorenberg&#8217;s phrasing in the original refers to a contingent within the Palestinian diaspora that expresses an &#8220;overdone nationalism,&#8221; like that with which he openly deals in the Jewish diaspora.  However, that seems to me to be grasping at straws on my part, though I would be reluctant to call it wishful thinking.  I guess I just assume that reasonable and intelligent people must, if arguing&#8211;or even simply discussing something&#8211;in good faith, reject reductive characterizations of diverse groups, even of the &#8220;other.&#8221; Thanks for your response.  </p>
<p>Best,<br />
Mike</p>
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		<title>By: Sinjim</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/palestinian-narrative-of-1948-is-not-immune-a-response/29850/comment-page-1/#comment-35178</link>
		<dc:creator>Sinjim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2011 02:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=29850#comment-35178</guid>
		<description>@Mike: Thank you for the response. This is the passage taken directly from Gorenberg&#039;s article:
.
&quot;Some feel constrained in speaking as clearly as they&#039;d like about Israel for fear of being identified with another rigidly ideological contingent: &lt;strong&gt;Diaspora Palestinians with their own overdone nationalism&lt;/strong&gt;, and a small coterie of Jews whose express their disappointment with Zionism through mirror-image anti-Zionism...&quot;
.
I believe my interpretation is correct. He makes no distinctions among Palestinians of the Diaspora. We are all the same to him. This man insults the millions of people exiled from their homeland as &quot;anti-Israel extremists&quot; with an &quot;overdone nationalism&quot; as part of an argument to convince American Jews that criticizing Israel is &quot;good for the Jews.&quot;
.
No Jew, Israeli or otherwise, would accept anyone speaking about their people and their communities in such an insulting manner, least of all as part of an argument about ending this conflict. That Gorenberg has no qualms about it shows how steeped in his own privilege he is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mike: Thank you for the response. This is the passage taken directly from Gorenberg&#8217;s article:<br />
.<br />
&#8220;Some feel constrained in speaking as clearly as they&#8217;d like about Israel for fear of being identified with another rigidly ideological contingent: <strong>Diaspora Palestinians with their own overdone nationalism</strong>, and a small coterie of Jews whose express their disappointment with Zionism through mirror-image anti-Zionism&#8230;&#8221;<br />
.<br />
I believe my interpretation is correct. He makes no distinctions among Palestinians of the Diaspora. We are all the same to him. This man insults the millions of people exiled from their homeland as &#8220;anti-Israel extremists&#8221; with an &#8220;overdone nationalism&#8221; as part of an argument to convince American Jews that criticizing Israel is &#8220;good for the Jews.&#8221;<br />
.<br />
No Jew, Israeli or otherwise, would accept anyone speaking about their people and their communities in such an insulting manner, least of all as part of an argument about ending this conflict. That Gorenberg has no qualms about it shows how steeped in his own privilege he is.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/palestinian-narrative-of-1948-is-not-immune-a-response/29850/comment-page-1/#comment-35167</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2011 00:46:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=29850#comment-35167</guid>
		<description>Sinjim,

Gorenberg wrote: &#039;My article, “Why Are They So Angry,” describes the shrill debate about Israel within the American Jewish community. I criticize a particular kind of diaspora nationalist who takes an uncompromising and rigid position on events in a far-away homeland. I mention diaspora Palestinians who do this in the context of a more extensive critique of diaspora Jews who do the same. And I argue that fear of being associated with such an extreme position is no excuse for moderates to remain silent.&#039;

I could be reading this passage incorrectly, and I am not attempting a blanket defense of Gorenberg&#039;s article otherwise, but I believe that you may have reacted to a formulation that Gorenberg did not actually make.  I don&#039;t think the author is saying that moderate diaspora Jews should not hesitate to engage in the debate out of fear of being associated with a Palestinian diaspora whose extremist character can be taken for granted.  If that is the case, then right on in your commentary.  

However, I think Gorenberg is suggesting that the frenzied and uncompromising nationalism of elements of the Jewish diaspora can effectively silence moderating debate for fear of being associated with THOSE extreme voices.  His reference to the Palestinian diaspora does lend a measure of ambiguity to the paragraph, but seems to pick out among the Palestinian community, like he states for the Jews, a subset of uncompromising activists that stifle debate within their own communities.   

If I am interpreting this correctly, I believe that your attack on Gorenberg&#039;s purported privileged condescension and insult mistaken.  

Best,
Mike</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sinjim,</p>
<p>Gorenberg wrote: &#8216;My article, “Why Are They So Angry,” describes the shrill debate about Israel within the American Jewish community. I criticize a particular kind of diaspora nationalist who takes an uncompromising and rigid position on events in a far-away homeland. I mention diaspora Palestinians who do this in the context of a more extensive critique of diaspora Jews who do the same. And I argue that fear of being associated with such an extreme position is no excuse for moderates to remain silent.&#8217;</p>
<p>I could be reading this passage incorrectly, and I am not attempting a blanket defense of Gorenberg&#8217;s article otherwise, but I believe that you may have reacted to a formulation that Gorenberg did not actually make.  I don&#8217;t think the author is saying that moderate diaspora Jews should not hesitate to engage in the debate out of fear of being associated with a Palestinian diaspora whose extremist character can be taken for granted.  If that is the case, then right on in your commentary.  </p>
<p>However, I think Gorenberg is suggesting that the frenzied and uncompromising nationalism of elements of the Jewish diaspora can effectively silence moderating debate for fear of being associated with THOSE extreme voices.  His reference to the Palestinian diaspora does lend a measure of ambiguity to the paragraph, but seems to pick out among the Palestinian community, like he states for the Jews, a subset of uncompromising activists that stifle debate within their own communities.   </p>
<p>If I am interpreting this correctly, I believe that your attack on Gorenberg&#8217;s purported privileged condescension and insult mistaken.  </p>
<p>Best,<br />
Mike</p>
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		<title>By: RepStones</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/palestinian-narrative-of-1948-is-not-immune-a-response/29850/comment-page-1/#comment-35133</link>
		<dc:creator>RepStones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Dec 2011 20:55:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=29850#comment-35133</guid>
		<description>Mr Groenberg - when you write 
&lt;i&gt;I answer that the evidence is lacking for existence of such a plan – and that the report of the Situation Committee, hitherto not examined by historians studying this issue, provides evidence of the opposite: Zionist planning for the new state anticipated that the Arab population would remain in place.&lt;/i&gt;

It is utterly ridiculous to assume that just because they formed a committee to consider how to deal with Arabs who remained in Israel, there was therefore no plan to expel them. Why do you make no mention of the transfer committee? The more likely reason for the existence of the Situation Committee is that it was convened to consider how best to deal with the Arabs if the Transfer Committee&#039;s aims were not fully realized (they were relaized to about 70%). Yes, im well aware the Transfer Committe was convened unofficially. But it was central to zionist thinking since Herzl&#039;s time, that the best solution was the removal of the indigenous peoples.
Knowing how well organised the jewish Agency and Zionists militia were, cataloging all arab habitations and various town/village elders etc - it stands to reason that they would have established a working group (your beloved Situation Committee) to decide what to do with the arabs who remained in the nascent jewish state. Furthermore, it demonstrates how Zionists viewed the indigenous Palestinian population - that they set up a committee to discuss, essentially, what to do with them. 

Oh and lets remember, even the first Prime Minister of Israel, Ben-Gurion, admitted he was in favour of &#039;compulsory transfer&#039; of the indigenous Arabs. There is too much evidence both written, anecdotal and witness testimony, to deny that the removal of as many Palestinians as possible, was an aim of Ben-Gurion and his cohorts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Groenberg &#8211; when you write<br />
<i>I answer that the evidence is lacking for existence of such a plan – and that the report of the Situation Committee, hitherto not examined by historians studying this issue, provides evidence of the opposite: Zionist planning for the new state anticipated that the Arab population would remain in place.</i></p>
<p>It is utterly ridiculous to assume that just because they formed a committee to consider how to deal with Arabs who remained in Israel, there was therefore no plan to expel them. Why do you make no mention of the transfer committee? The more likely reason for the existence of the Situation Committee is that it was convened to consider how best to deal with the Arabs if the Transfer Committee&#8217;s aims were not fully realized (they were relaized to about 70%). Yes, im well aware the Transfer Committe was convened unofficially. But it was central to zionist thinking since Herzl&#8217;s time, that the best solution was the removal of the indigenous peoples.<br />
Knowing how well organised the jewish Agency and Zionists militia were, cataloging all arab habitations and various town/village elders etc &#8211; it stands to reason that they would have established a working group (your beloved Situation Committee) to decide what to do with the arabs who remained in the nascent jewish state. Furthermore, it demonstrates how Zionists viewed the indigenous Palestinian population &#8211; that they set up a committee to discuss, essentially, what to do with them. </p>
<p>Oh and lets remember, even the first Prime Minister of Israel, Ben-Gurion, admitted he was in favour of &#8216;compulsory transfer&#8217; of the indigenous Arabs. There is too much evidence both written, anecdotal and witness testimony, to deny that the removal of as many Palestinians as possible, was an aim of Ben-Gurion and his cohorts.</p>
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		<title>By: BERL</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/palestinian-narrative-of-1948-is-not-immune-a-response/29850/comment-page-1/#comment-35117</link>
		<dc:creator>BERL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Dec 2011 20:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=29850#comment-35117</guid>
		<description>RECHAVIA,
.
I would be glad to have one document, one picture or something else that could prove what you are claiming.
.
Did the houses in the compound originally belong to Jews?
“No. The houses in question were built during the Jordanian regime on an olive grove. They were proposed as a solution for accommodating
Palestinian refugees who lost their homes in various parts of Israel in
1948. The ownership of the lots is disputed.”
http://www.en.justjlm.org/what-is-our-struggle-about/sheikh-jarrah-solidarity/faq-about-sheikh-jarrah</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RECHAVIA,<br />
.<br />
I would be glad to have one document, one picture or something else that could prove what you are claiming.<br />
.<br />
Did the houses in the compound originally belong to Jews?<br />
“No. The houses in question were built during the Jordanian regime on an olive grove. They were proposed as a solution for accommodating<br />
Palestinian refugees who lost their homes in various parts of Israel in<br />
1948. The ownership of the lots is disputed.”<br />
<a href="http://www.en.justjlm.org/what-is-our-struggle-about/sheikh-jarrah-solidarity/faq-about-sheikh-jarrah" rel="nofollow">http://www.en.justjlm.org/what-is-our-struggle-about/sheikh-jarrah-solidarity/faq-about-sheikh-jarrah</a></p>
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